BTW I watched Monday War

[Flasch186]

..and it was back to the usual crapfest. they had an opportunity coming off of the heels of supposedly a great PPV and blew it. Why oh why do they allow the spiral to continue? Wont someone at the top drop the ego and see the reality? Perhaps I should fly up there for a month to get the train back on the tracks...

[SFL Cat]

??? WTF are you talking about?

[Flasch186]

??? WTF are you talking about?

if you dont know you're not supposed to know...shhh, exit now before you know too much

[ShaefIllini]

Do you mean Raw??

[SFL Cat]

Oh....wrasslin'

[duckman]

..and it was back to the usual crapfest. they had an opportunity coming off of the heels of supposedly a great PPV and blew it. Why oh why do they allow the spiral to continue? Wont someone at the top drop the ego and see the reality? Perhaps I should fly up there for a month to get the train back on the tracks...
It was ECW One Night Stand. It wasn't supposed to be a running storyline because of the dangers of the matches. Look at Tommy Dreamer. He had a seperated shoulder and a lacerated ear after the match. Also, Vinnie learned his lesson about constantly using high risk matches. Because of the Attitude era, they got several of their superstars (Angle, Austin, Benoit, Edge....) with neck fusions.

I would had like to see more matches, but the Angle appearance made up for it. It got him out of that shitty Sharmel angle he was in. It also set a bunch of potential main event match-ups (HHH, Batista, HBK). Personally, I like what they have done with the draft lottery.

[Flasch186]

It was ECW One Night Stand. It wasn't supposed to be a running storyline because of the dangers of the matches. Look at Tommy Dreamer. He had a seperated shoulder and a lacerated ear after the match. Also, Vinnie learned his lesson about constantly using high risk matches. Because of the Attitude era, they got several of their superstars (Angle, Austin, Benoit, Edge....) with neck fusions.

I would had like to see more matches, but the Angle appearance made up for it. It got him out of that shitty Sharmel angle he was in. It also set a bunch of potential main event match-ups (HHH, Batista, HBK). Personally, I like what they have done with the draft lottery.

its NOT about the matches...they couldve continued the eat, used the built in storylines...bring in blue meanie to start attacking JBL, start banding ECW guys together in a mutiny, have Paul Heyman begin to conspire against Vince, have stuff go on thats "not so obvious" like an ECW guy pulling punches against another ECW guy and maybe Lawler begins to notice and say some things, perhaps an ECW guy is late to a show and cant explain why, perhaps Mick Foley is seen around, perhaps a paycheck isnt cashed from WWE and Vince wants to know why, perhaps Stephanie says to Vince "Dad you think I can have some more control over Smackdown?" and Vince says no, perhaps Paul is seen with an ECW sticker in his wallet, perhaps more ECW signs keep showing up and security tries to take them, perhaps, perhaps, but instead we'll get HHH vs. Jericho vs. Batista vs. edge in a super duper match with silly build up, worse acting, and the fans will continue to stay away. An ECW revolt....group warfare is the best way to build heat, THAN split off feuds from that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Face it folks, when me & Flasch start agreeing, it's either a very good idea OR a sign of the impending Apocalypse (or both).
:D

[duckman]

its NOT about the matches...they couldve continued the eat, used the built in storylines...bring in blue meanie to start attacking JBL, start banding ECW guys together in a mutiny, have Paul Heyman begin to conspire against Vince, have stuff go on thats "not so obvious" like an ECW guy pulling punches against another ECW guy and maybe Lawler begins to notice and say some things, perhaps an ECW guy is late to a show and cant explain why, perhaps Mick Foley is seen around, perhaps a paycheck isnt cashed from WWE and Vince wants to know why, perhaps Stephanie says to Vince "Dad you think I can have some more control over Smackdown?" and Vince says no, perhaps Paul is seen with an ECW sticker in his wallet, perhaps more ECW signs keep showing up and security tries to take them, perhaps, perhaps, but instead we'll get HHH vs. Jericho vs. Batista vs. edge in a super duper match with silly build up, worse acting, and the fans will continue to stay away. An ECW revolt....group warfare is the best way to build heat, THAN split off feuds from that.
The Blue Meanie?! He was in the WWE already and flopped. You want an improved product? Here are my ideas:

1) Continue to elevate Christian. The guy is a natural heel, have good mic skills, and can carry his load in the ring. This program with Cena is going to be pure gold.

2) After the HIAC match, HHH needs to drop down to the midcard for a few months while letting Batista start a program with Angle. Angle is one of the wrestlers on the roster and deserves a title shot.

3) Don't move Batista to Smackdown! I got a feeling that they will because HHH wants to keep being a main eventer even though it's stale. This is the main problem with the lack of fans.

[Flasch186]

The Blue Meanie?! He was in the WWE already and flopped. You want an improved product? Here are my ideas:

1) Continue to elevate Christian. The guy is a natural heel, have good mic skills, and can carry his load in the ring. This program with Cena is going to be pure gold.

2) After the HIAC match, HHH needs to drop down to the midcard for a few months while letting Batista start a program with Angle. Angle is one of the wrestlers on the roster and deserves a title shot.

3) Don't move Batista to Smackdown! I got a feeling that they will because HHH wants to keep being a main eventer even though it's stale. This is the main problem with the lack of fans.

you miss the point....all of these may be good ideas BUT no one cares because the:

1. acting is so horrible

2. the buildup is so lackluster

3. the same crap happens over and over again


The wrestling is about 25% of the product the show is 75%. when the 75% sucks, even an incredible 25% will only last so long before me and Jon and millions of others, who would watch, dont.


BTW - Blue meanie NEVER had this kind of natural heat, this kind of natural fan base, and this kind of potential. IT would be the easiest 5 months of story and one that 75-100% of the fans would be...here it is, swallow it because it is everything.......EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED IN. Its not rocket science...its easy.

[Flasch186]

The Blue Meanie?! He was in the WWE already and flopped. You want an improved product? Here are my ideas:

1) Continue to elevate Christian. The guy is a natural heel, have good mic skills, and can carry his load in the ring. This program with Cena is going to be pure gold.

2) After the HIAC match, HHH needs to drop down to the midcard for a few months while letting Batista start a program with Angle. Angle is one of the wrestlers on the roster and deserves a title shot.

3) Don't move Batista to Smackdown! I got a feeling that they will because HHH wants to keep being a main eventer even though it's stale. This is the main problem with the lack of fans.

BTW - Elevate Christian?! It could be "Elevate Person X"...it wont matte til they fix the tracks its running on.

BTW - After the HIAC match, blah blah blah blah blah....no one will care because the stories are so bad. there are times no one cares who the champion is but care more about other people on the roster because theyre better actors, the heat is more real, and the two characters allow the audience to care.

BTW - Stop dividing the roster between smackdown and RAW or at least let them crossover more readily (this would be another great opportunity to have ECW guys showing up all over the place and Vince being pissed and not knowing why this keeps happening), dividing the roster alienates a great portion of audience form character development...


...how 'bout that Jon :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Its not rocket science...its easy.

Well, it's easy for anyone who has the slightest understanding of effective storyline psychology ... which hasn't included anyone on VinnyMac's payroll in ages (or at least not that was allowed to write).

Memphis, Knoxville, Charlotte, Atlanta, Kansas City, Tampa, those who know what happened, how it was portrayed, how it was sold, in those markets understand. Hell, those who grew up with the great LA T-Birds roller derby know how it is sold.

Alas, I doubt those references mean much to the collection of hacks the WWE has as writers.

edit to add: It's even more tragic in a lot of ways than the death-by-suffocation that McMahon is putting wrestling through since the monopoly began. Here he is, with the opportunity of a lifetime, to collect the great minds & talents all in one place, with more resources than any of them ever dreamed of having, all he has to do is stay out of their way enough to allow them to work their magic. But his ego will never allow it.

[TLK]

As probably the biggest fan of ECW ever.... The Meanie couldn't draw a dime. How would you explain the Meanie/Bradshaw angle on televison? Those worked-shoot angles worked out well for WCW.

It will never happen, but I think the WWF(e) should give the ECW brand a shot. They already seem to be burying Smackdown, so why not go the whole way. Let ECW have the slot and use the talent already under contract, along with some indy talent. Seems like it's worth a shot to me, and hell I might actually have to start watching wrestling again if they did that....

[JonInMiddleGA]

Let ECW have the slot and use the talent already under contract, along with some indy talent. Seems like it's worth a shot to me, and hell I might actually have to start watching wrestling again if they did that....

Agreed, booked in the ECW style, it would bring me back in a heartbeat.

One change from what you said though ... don't "let them have the slot" ... let us seem the "takethe slot".

The end of one night stand, Austin's comment to Misterio ("he screwed you over too"), they know just what nerves are still raw on a lot of departed fans -- so tickle that nerve, keep us interested, it wouldn't be difficult.

The payoff comes when ECW, flying its old colors & much of its old roster, moves into the slot permanently. Hell, there's 6 months worth of storyline in that transition alone.

[Flasch186]

As probably the biggest fan of ECW ever.... The Meanie couldn't draw a dime. How would you explain the Meanie/Bradshaw angle on televison? Those worked-shoot angles worked out well for WCW.
.


This is what i mean by Easy, watch...


JBL match, Meanie comes out of the crowd and attacks him. "WHY?!"

Next week on RAW the shot is playe don the jumbotron and all the talk ensues but Meanie cant be found, he certainly isnt around tonight.

But JBL is nervous cuz Meanie came out of nowhere...

The next week JBL is doing an Interview and an ECW guy perhaps sandman is in the audience or Dreamer and just sits there and JBLloses cuz of it.

The next week there is blue spray paint on JBLs in ring clothing and he has to wear it or else he'll be counted out.

JBL is starting to lose it and the scar on Meanies face is everywhere, from signs in the crowd to commercials "explaining why JBL is losing it."

Perhaps the next week, that song somebody's watching me plays over a montage of JBL watching over his back, and Heyman is seen smiling.

NOw Meanie shows up the next week, we think, and Heyman is late to his segment.

The next week JBL does an in-ring calling out Meanie but Vince says it wont happen, he's not letting some guy not on the roster show up.

The next week, steph asks for more control over Smackdown perhaps. NO.

The next week, JBL is attacked in the parking lot.

The next week, Heyman doesnt show up but calls Vince to say he had a death in family and couldnt make it. He'll make it up to him.

The next week, JBL IS attacked in the Ring by Meanie and a former ECW guy, perhaps Franchise or something...

The next week JBL is going to the ring to do an interview and in the middle the lights go out, and an AWESOME BLUE tinted intro plays and Meanie comes out and stand on the walkway but security is there to take him away.

OH AND MEANIE'S CLOTHES AREN'T SILLY!!!!!! THAT IS IMPORTANT.




you see where this is going, im getting goose bumps just writing it. Allow it itme, allow it to grow, allow the audience to enjoy the build up....

heres what we would get under the current writing if they decided to do this:

JBL is attacked by Meanie in the back and JBL does awfully in his acting.

The next week Meanie asks for a match, they say no.

The next week JBL is attacked. he asks for a match. they say yes. MAtch ensues. Meanie loses. end of story woop dee doo.

[Flasch186]

this could be the start of Jon's Extreme Thursday Night's....

[CraigSca]

Wait - are you guys saying wrestling isn't REAL?!

[Flasch186]

oh and Meanie would have to drop the nice guy moniker and be pissed off...Id view the ECW guys as pissed off and looking to get back at Vince and the entire WWE, but they must allow it time to bloom, allow the audience to fall in love with the story.

[Suicane75]

You seem to be missing the basis of Meanies character, he's a goof, a big blue goof off.

There was never gonna be any immediate followup but they spent all day Monday in meetings deciding on where to go forward so I wasn't that dissapointed that nothing happened. Now if nothing happens in the next few weeks...........

[dubb93]

This is what i mean by Easy, watch...


JBL match, Meanie comes out of the crowd and attacks him. "WHY?!"

Next week on RAW the shot is playe don the jumbotron and all the talk ensues but Meanie cant be found, he certainly isnt around tonight.

But JBL is nervous cuz Meanie came out of nowhere...

The next week JBL is doing an Interview and an ECW guy perhaps sandman is in the audience or Dreamer and just sits there and JBLloses cuz of it.

The next week there is blue spray paint on JBLs in ring clothing and he has to wear it or else he'll be counted out.

JBL is starting to lose it and the scar on Meanies face is everywhere, from signs in the crowd to commercials "explaining why JBL is losing it."

Perhaps the next week, that song somebody's watching me plays over a montage of JBL watching over his back, and Heyman is seen smiling.

NOw Meanie shows up the next week, we think, and Heyman is late to his segment.

The next week JBL does an in-ring calling out Meanie but Vince says it wont happen, he's not letting some guy not on the roster show up.

The next week, steph asks for more control over Smackdown perhaps. NO.

The next week, JBL is attacked in the parking lot.

The next week, Heyman doesnt show up but calls Vince to say he had a death in family and couldnt make it. He'll make it up to him.

The next week, JBL IS attacked in the Ring by Meanie and a former ECW guy, perhaps Franchise or something...

The next week JBL is going to the ring to do an interview and in the middle the lights go out, and an AWESOME BLUE tinted intro plays and Meanie comes out and stand on the walkway but security is there to take him away.

OH AND MEANIE'S CLOTHES AREN'T SILLY!!!!!! THAT IS IMPORTANT.




you see where this is going, im getting goose bumps just writing it. Allow it itme, allow it to grow, allow the audience to enjoy the build up....

heres what we would get under the current writing if they decided to do this:

JBL is attacked by Meanie in the back and JBL does awfully in his acting.

The next week Meanie asks for a match, they say no.

The next week JBL is attacked. he asks for a match. they say yes. MAtch ensues. Meanie loses. end of story woop dee doo.

Thats a little far fetched for a 3 month storyline. I would love for them to build up long awesome storylines, but leave the freakin meanie out of it. I think a great wrestling show can be just as important as the backstage antics. Its all about taste.

BTW, you made a fatal flaw in your storyline that has been killing the WWE for a long time now. You invented a rule that has never existed, will never exist, and is just silly. The WWE have done it for ages and it has backfired every time. There is no rule that JBL has to wrestle in his ring attire. Hell, as far as the "rules" state he could wrestling in his tighty whiteys and a cowboy hat. In that situation, instead of counting him out on some make believe rule, he would just have wrestled in his suit.

[Flasch186]

Thats a little far fetched for a 3 month storyline. I would love for them to build up long awesome storylines, but leave the freakin meanie out of it. I think a great wrestling show can be just as important as the backstage antics. Its all about taste.

BTW, you made a fatal flaw in your storyline that has been killing the WWE for a long time now. You invented a rule that has never existed, will never exist, and is just silly. The WWE have done it for ages and it has backfired every time. There is no rule that JBL has to wrestle in his ring attire. Hell, as far as the "rules" state he could wrestling in his tighty whiteys and a cowboy hat. In that situation, instead of counting him out on some make believe rule, he would just have wrestled in his suit.

counted out if'n he doesnt come to the ring...i kniow he can wrestle in whatever he wants. too funny, you think something is far fetched in WWE.....trust me, this is exactly what MOST of the audiences want, involved, emotional, open, storylines.

[Flasch186]

You seem to be missing the basis of Meanies character, he's a goof, a big blue goof off.


Sui, that is what make emotional involvement. Take the facest face and make HIM the heelest heel. If you dont work with extremes on the character arc, the audience wont care. Meanie is PERFECT to be a "seriously pissed off" catalyst for an ECW revolt.

[Joe]

Sui, that is what make emotional involvement. Take the facest face and make HIM the heelest heel. If you dont work with extremes on the character arc, the audience wont care. Meanie is PERFECT to be a "seriously pissed off" catalyst for an ECW revolt.


if they did that with someone, it should be someone that can actually wrestle and doesn't suck.

[Flasch186]

if they did that with someone, it should be someone that can actually wrestle and doesn't suck.

it wouldnt be hard to involve LOTS of different things, the meanie/JBL thing could be just one facet. BUT I PROMISE, the fans would be hugely behind Meanie in this and eventually could be behind JBL and his fear if they do it right.

[jbmagic]

flasch 186


did sim game will be what you need :)

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/tew/

[Suicane75]

Flasch, i love your passion, just not your ideas, but it's cool.

[Flasch186]

flasch 186


did sim game will be what you need :)

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/tew/

is this that new game...if so i bought it, and never could get it to work.
PLUS I couldnt get the real stuff in the game and playing with fake names killed me.

no I have Spirit, no offense but that sucks....is TEW better?

[Flasch186]

Flasch, i love your passion, just not your ideas, but it's cool.

hey thats basic writing.....if you take a moderate face and make him a heel dont be surprised when the reaction has him be a moderate heel and not get over. It has to be UNDERTAKER like character swings to grab the audience.

[jbmagic]

is this that new game...if so i bought it, and never could get it to work.
PLUS I couldnt get the real stuff in the game and playing with fake names killed me.

no I have Spirit, no offense but that sucks....is TEW better?


its brand new coming out this summer 2005

[Suicane75]

Flasch, heres the problem, nobody knows Meanie, if they saw Meanie attack Bradshaw they would say "what the fuck is retarded shit?". They need to not only cater to ECW fans but to their own audience who doesnt know him from a hole in the ground.

You sound like you very badly wanna see an ECW version of the NWO which i really doubt would work.

[Flasch186]

Flasch, heres the problem, nobody knows Meanie, if they saw Meanie attack Bradshaw they would say "what the fuck is retarded shit?". They need to not only cater to ECW fans but to their own audience who doesnt know him from a hole in the ground.

You sound like you very badly wanna see an ECW version of the NWO which i really doubt would work.


AHHHHHHH, what a great opportunity via promos, video clips, etc. to teach everyone who he is in exactly the light they want to. They can take advantage of this, as opposed to the rehash that happens over and over again.....This is a spectacular opportunity to start out a long wonderful storyline involving many....you need to remember the power of the promo, the Titantron, and theme song.....its what gets the POP...and in turn what grabs the audience.

youre right NWO wasn't huge back in the day......

the beginning and middle of NWO was huge and succesful, the rpoblem is the bosses did not take advantage of that success and innovate and spin off from it, they let the ship run into the ground.

[Suicane75]

Yeah, but by your logic if they could get anyone over that way why in the world use Meanie?

I don't feel that they need to use ECW as a storyline, but rather incorporate it's style into what they do now, ie: give Heyman the damn book.

Gang and group storylines fail to highlite individuals, which is what they really need to do.

I guess my point is that it isn't ideas that are needed, those are out there, it's execution and elevation that everything hinges on.

And I promise you the moment spraypaint was brought into the angle fans would turn off their TV's in droves.

[Flasch186]

Yeah, but by your logic if they could get anyone over that way why in the world use Meanie?

I don't feel that they need to use ECW as a storyline, but rather incorporate it's style into what they do now, ie: give Heyman the damn book.

Gang and group storylines fail to highlite individuals, which is what they really need to do.

I guess my point is that it isn't ideas that are needed, those are out there, it's execution and elevation that everything hinges on.

And I promise you the moment spraypaint was brought into the angle fans would turn off their TV's in droves.


the individuals on their own cannot succeed....all "over" singles guys start from groups BUT right now there is no group for a single to come out of, its rare when they dont. The rock from the Black gang (forgot their name), Batista from evolution, etc. By allowing the gang warfare angle they will set themselves up with so many singles success stories it could carry them for years. And I promise this .......
ANYONE can get over if the management and media is done right. anyone for a time then it is up to the management to see when is the time to swicth it up....almost anything, including spray paint, will get over if done right.

EDIT: Wasn't there recently a moron who was "over" because it was done right? Eric Bischoff's nephew or something.....did they end that at the right time or let it fizzle out.

[Flasch186]

im watching smackdown now and its almost unbearable.

[Flasch186]

OMG did they listen to me again!!!

[Flasch186]

nah, benoit just took that one guy away...no biggie

[JonInMiddleGA]

The rock from the Black gang (forgot their name), Batista from evolution, etc.

They were "The Nation ... of Domination"

And I promise this .......ANYONE can get over if the management and media is done right.

Well, almost anyone. Erik Watts comes to mind as the exception to prove the "anyone" rule ;)

[DeToxRox]

WWE needs the Shockmaster

[TLK]

hxxp://www.liveaudiowrestling.com/wo/news/headlines/default.asp?aID=13630

Check out the Smackdown spoilers....

[RendeR]

... Its all about taste.



Umm....this is as far as I could go in this thread, when people are discussing "Wrasslin'" and make a statement such as this, I just have to draw the line.


*smirx* I mean, holy hell people, what has TASTE ever had to do with any wrestling fan?

[MikeVic]

Umm....this is as far as I could go in this thread, when people are discussing "Wrasslin'" and make a statement such as this, I just have to draw the line.


*smirx* I mean, holy hell people, what has TASTE ever had to do with any wrestling fan?

Fuck you.


And onto the Smackdown Spoilers, I'll be watching that for sure. :D

[jbmagic]

Wow

Shaun Michaels chin music Hulk Hogan and knock him out.

i didnt see that coming.

[duckman]

The word jousting by Jericho and Cena was awesome. Jericho makes an awesome heel and Cena had a "Rock-like" promo. Very good stuff.

The HBK heel turn almost made me ripped my stitches out! :)

[jbmagic]

The HBK heel turn almost made me ripped my stitches out! :)

that one really shock me what he did to Hogan

the last time i was shock was when Hogan turn heel and joined NWO.

[Ryche]

EDIT: Wasn't there recently a moron who was "over" because it was done right? Eric Bischoff's nephew or something.....did they end that at the right time or let it fizzle out.


I think you're talking about Eugene. They may have been fazing him out at the end of his recent run, but it ended because he suffered a fairly serious injury, I believe a dislocated patella (kneecap). He will be back though, as he has a lot of talent and wrestling ability. Maybe with the layoff they can get a new gimmick for him.

[MikeVic]

I think you're talking about Eugene. They may have been fazing him out at the end of his recent run, but it ended because he suffered a fairly serious injury, I believe a dislocated patella (kneecap). He will be back though, as he has a lot of talent and wrestling ability. Maybe with the layoff they can get a new gimmick for him.

Like Chavo Guerrero's awesome new gimmick.... :rolleyes: What a crappy gimmick......

[duckman]

Like Chavo Guerrero's awesome new gimmick.... :rolleyes: What a crappy gimmick......
I was thinking the same thing. I wonder how much money was stuffed into his pocket by Vinnie Mac to "denounce" his Hispanic heritage? :rolleyes:

[Comey]

What I find funny about the SD spoilers is that Flasch wanted the Meanie back...and they got him...and the crowd didn't give a fuck, because they don't know the backstory and the fight.

[jbmagic]

this draft was major. what a big shakeup.

a total of 10 smackdown wrestler went to RAW and 10 raw wrestlers went to smackdown.

they show 5 on each show change on tv.

but there was a major trade that involved another five wrestler on each show changing shows.

[duckman]

What I find funny about the SD spoilers is that Flasch wanted the Meanie back...and they got him...and the crowd didn't give a fuck, because they don't know the backstory and the fight.
Flasch thinks that every wrestling fan watches every PPV and reads about wrestling on websites. Most people don't have a clue about wrestlers' real life dramas. They only know the characters on the shows they watch.

[TazFTW]

They seem to know a lot about the Matt Hardy/Lita/Edge thing and that was purely internet.

[Flasch186]

What I find funny about the SD spoilers is that Flasch wanted the Meanie back...and they got him...and the crowd didn't give a fuck, because they don't know the backstory and the fight.

I only wanted him under the pretense I laid out above. Shoot they could bring back any joe, and throw him in the ring to not get over....its all about the run-up and marketing. They blew it again....they weren't patient with it, like I proposed above. I did not ask to just have meanie back, I asked for the full story, and they fucked it up again.

[duckman]

I only wanted him under the pretense I laid out above. Shoot they could bring back any joe, and throw him in the ring to not get over....its all about the run-up and marketing. They blew it again....they weren't patient with it, like I proposed above. I did not ask to just have meanie back, I asked for the full story, and they fucked it up again.
The Blue Meanie doesn't make Vinnie money. He makes money with the main eventers like Cena and Batistia, so they will build their stories around those characters and not some washed up midcarder.

[MikeVic]

I only wanted him under the pretense I laid out above. Shoot they could bring back any joe, and throw him in the ring to not get over....its all about the run-up and marketing. They blew it again....they weren't patient with it, like I proposed above. I did not ask to just have meanie back, I asked for the full story, and they fucked it up again.

Hmm... I don't know Flasch. You said:

BTW - Blue meanie NEVER had this kind of natural heat, this kind of natural fan base, and this kind of potential. IT would be the easiest 5 months of story and one that 75-100% of the fans would be...here it is, swallow it because it is everything.......EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED IN. Its not rocket science...its easy.

And the start to your ECW thing was with the Meanie attacking JBL. That's fairly close to what happens on Smackdown, isn't it? Unless I read the spoilers wrong, doesn't Meanie PIN JBL? If you told me that and I hadn't read the spoilers, I would never believe you. Who heard of a nobody coming in and pinning the recent multi-month champion?

All I'm really saying is that they haven't necessarily screwed this one up yet. In combination with The Mexicools, Smackdown has become a show I'd like to watch again, so kudos to them for that at least.

[duckman]

And the start to your ECW thing was with the Meanie attacking JBL. That's fairly close to what happens on Smackdown, isn't it? Unless I read the spoilers wrong, doesn't Meanie PIN JBL? If you told me that and I hadn't read the spoilers, I would never believe you. Who heard of a nobody coming in and pinning the recent multi-month champion?
This is punishment from Vince for JBL stiffing Meanie during the PPV. There will be no future storyline.

[MikeVic]

This is punishment from Vince for JBL stiffing Meanie during the PPV. There will be no future storyline.

Is it really?? I can't believe Vince is punishing him...

[duckman]

Is it really?? I can't believe Vince is punishing him...
Vince has a history of punishing his top stars by making them job to a lesser opponent. Brock Lesnar is going to find this out when he comes back. :D

[jbmagic]

Vince has a history of punishing his top stars by making them job to a lesser opponent. Brock Lesnar is going to find this out when he comes back. :D

Brock Lesnar is coming back?

if so raw or smackdown?

[JonInMiddleGA]

The Blue Meanie doesn't make Vinnie money. He makes money with the main eventers like Cena and Batistia, so they will build their stories around those characters and not some washed up midcarder.

Yeah, Cena & Batista have really been putting butts in seats haven't they?
{that's sarcasm in case anyone missed it}

Checked the ratings & the stock price lately?

[duckman]

Checked the ratings & the stock price lately?
Yes, ratings are up 3% from this time last year. They had the highest rating of the year last week (4.4) on RAW which was highest on cable. Their stock is at $11.85 per share which is up from 9.91 on May 4th.

The recent trend shows that more people are buying tickets to events; thus the lack of tarps covering the cheap seats during the TV tapings.

People were tired of seeing HHH holding onto the belt, so they gave them a viable face to carry the belt. The fans have responded with more ticket sales at the live events, higher television ratings, and more merchandise purchases.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sorry duck, but if you consider Cena & Batista "viable" ... we probably aren't going to have much to discuss on the subject.

[jander]

Not big on Cena, he can shoot good, but don't like the character at all. I never liked JBL much, but after that ONS crap he pulled with Meanie, I can't stand him at all (and the thing that annoys me is they have commentary from him on the DVD for ONS totally ripping all the ECW wrestlers). Now I do like Batista, but upset to see him go to SD!

All the talk about ECW taking over SD!, there is no way, UPN is already messing with SD! by moving it to Friday nights this fall. You know how toned down an ECW brand would have to be to be allowed on a network channel.

Christian does deserve to continue getting the push, but just can't see him as main event/heavyweight champion. He would be a good US Champ though on SD!

HBK turn was the most unsuspected wrestling storylines than I have seen in a long time. Other than that Raw sucked like usual. They so bad need competition (hopefully someday TNA will be able to do it, but they are losing money bad from what I hear).

[Comey]

Yeah, Cena & Batista have really been putting butts in seats haven't they?
{that's sarcasm in case anyone missed it}

Checked the ratings & the stock price lately?
Actually, it's pushing the new guard that has. Cena and Batista have been at the forefront of that, along with Edge and Christian, Carlito, Kurt Angle, and Jericho.

The pops that Cena and Batista get are ridiculous...far higher than anyone else has gotten in a very long time. A lot of people are saying Cena will ultimately break records Austin made, in terms of merchandise. Hell, even Austin says he'll do it.

You may not like them, but they are working right now.

[Flasch186]

Hmm... I don't know Flasch. You said:



And the start to your ECW thing was with the Meanie attacking JBL. That's fairly close to what happens on Smackdown, isn't it? Unless I read the spoilers wrong, doesn't Meanie PIN JBL? If you told me that and I hadn't read the spoilers, I would never believe you. Who heard of a nobody coming in and pinning the recent multi-month champion?

All I'm really saying is that they haven't necessarily screwed this one up yet. In combination with The Mexicools, Smackdown has become a show I'd like to watch again, so kudos to them for that at least.

well if they planned on it ebing a storyline they can still work it by bringing the world up to speed over the next few weeks, via tape, promos, highlights, etc. On its own, no story line will work unless it is a story first.

[TazFTW]

Somewhat related, the following have been released by the WWE

<!--StartFragment -->Mark Jindrak
Maven
Shannon Moore
James Yun (Akio)
David Heath (Gangrel)
Billy Kidman
Kevin Fertig (Mordecai)
Spike Dudley

[Neon_Chaos]

Somewhat related, the following have been released by the WWE

<!--StartFragment -->Mark Jindrak
Maven
Shannon Moore
James Yun (Akio)
David Heath (Gangrel)
Billy Kidman
Kevin Fertig (Mordecai)
Spike Dudley

Billy Kidman!!!! - Does this mean miss Wilson is gone as well???!?!?!?

[Neon_Chaos]

Sorry duck, but if you consider Cena & Batista "viable" ... we probably aren't going to have much to discuss on the subject.

YOU CAN'T SEE ME!!! *waves hand in face* :D

[Neon_Chaos]

Flasch thinks that every wrestling fan watches every PPV and reads about wrestling on websites. Most people don't have a clue about wrestlers' real life dramas. They only know the characters on the shows they watch.

I would think that most of the casual fans are the ones who watch TV, and most of the ones who actually go to live events and pay for seats are smarks.

[jbmagic]

WWE.com has learned that RAW General Manager Eric Bischoff and SmackDown! General Manager Theodore Long have agreed on a blockbuster 11-person deal that will likely have a big impact on both rosters.

http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/trade

but then Mark Jindrak get release from wwe.

[duckman]

Here are some more releases:

Kenzo Suzuki
Charlie Haas
Jackie Gayda
Dawn Marie
Marty Jannetty
The Dudley Boys
Matt Morgan

They signed Big Vito to a contract. He will be on the Smackdown brand.

WWE.com has officially announced that Brock Lesnar is in talks to return in the near future. They've been in talks for over a week now.

Looks like ole Vinnie is cleaning out the closet to cut cost after losing more than $10 million in revenue from their new TV contract with USA Network. I would almost gurantee that Brock will get a garbage due to his remarks since violating the no compete clause in his contract, and for making crazy demands in his first negotiations session to return.

[SirFozzie]

17 in total released. Wow.

[TazFTW]

The Dudleys? Shit there goes another ECW show. Although I guess, they can bring them in for an appearance.

[duckman]

The Dudleys? Shit there goes another ECW show. Although I guess, they can bring them in for an appearance.
WWE.com reported that they would not be renewing their current contract. I don't think they really don't have any plans for them. I would expect them to resign after some time when certain characters become stale.

[Flasch186]

diva search = some of the worst crap on tV today

[Suicane75]

diva search = some of the worst crap on tV today
This is the best shit ever!

[jbmagic]

Piper's pit is back

[Suicane75]

Q. Tell us your special talent.
A. My name is Ashley!

[MikeVic]

Q. Tell us your special talent.
A. My name is Ashley!


:D I'm in agreement with you that I look forward to the Diva Search just to see what the hell they do next.

I'm pretty happy with RAW so far today.

[General Mike]

Was that Matt Hardy just now attacking Edge?

[Suicane75]

Fake Matt Hardy.

[Suicane75]

:D I'm in agreement with you that I look forward to the Diva Search just to see what the hell they do next.

I'm pretty happy with RAW so far today.
Great Benji/Carlito match, Diva Search was awesome cause its they are just so vapid, and skimpily attired. Ending 2 segments should be good too.

[MikeVic]

The BOOGEYMAN!!! I'm scared!!!!!!!!

[Chubby]

boy another drawn out Kane feud, what a shock. i'm sure this will probably last another 6 months


you sure that's not the real hardy?

[Chubby]

at least we have a semi-interesting "shoot" angle now

[MikeVic]

WWE is really changing things now...

I'm liking this. :D:D

[Flasch186]

that matt stuff looked cool, if they wrote that THAN THAT IS HOW YOU START A STORYLINE. GREAT ACTING!!!

[Suicane75]

God damn, i havnt marked out like that in years, nice.

Glad I was wrong, although Matt has gotten chunky.

[MikeVic]

Exactly. I haven't been this excited about RAW in a LOOONG time. Letting him say "Screw the WWE!" and "I'll be at ROH tomorrow night" or whatever he said was so cool. :D

[Suicane75]

Exactly. I haven't been this excited about RAW in a LOOONG time. Letting him say "Screw the WWE!" and "I'll be at ROH tomorrow night" or whatever he said was so cool. :D
Indeed.

[duckman]

I just completely marked out there. :)

[Flasch186]

what is ROH?

[jbmagic]

is that really matt hardy?

i tought edge and matt hardy hate each other in real life because edge cheated on lita.

[MikeVic]

what is ROH?

Ring of Honor... an independent wrestling league where people are put over based on their actual wrestling ability. They've had some really good matches... Hardy was supposed to wrestle a show for them.

[duckman]

what is ROH?
Ring of Honor. It's a smaller wrestling federation.

[MikeVic]

is that really matt hardy?

i tought edge and matt hardy hate each other in real life because edge cheated on lita.

Yeah, now I want to know if the cheating thing was a story to build this up, or if that really happened, Matt really got fired, and then got brought back because of fan response.

If it's all fake, then KUDOS to the WWE for using the internet to build a story. That's how you build a super baby-face without him even appearing on TV. :D If it's real, then I'll be looking forward to the stiff shots between Edge and Matt. :)

[duckman]

is that really matt hardy?

i tought edge and matt hardy hate each other in real life because edge cheated on lita.
Yeah, that was Hardy.

Hardy is a company man and knows that WWE pays better than TNA. I bet they offered his job back if he would work with Edge and Lita for some time.

[Chubby]

Yeah, now I want to know if the cheating thing was a story to build this up, or if that really happened, Matt really got fired, and then got brought back because of fan response.

If it's all fake, then KUDOS to the WWE for using the internet to build a story. That's how you build a super baby-face without him even appearing on TV. :D If it's real, then I'll be looking forward to the stiff shots between Edge and Matt. :)
As far as I know, it really happened and the WWE adapted their storyline around it because Lita was supposed to be a face but was getting heat due to RL things with Hardy/Edge

[jbmagic]

was this angle part of wwe? or did he get upset because of last week footage of him. and came to the ring on his own? iknow the show is live.

if it wasnt part of wwe i wonder if the will show that part for the areas they view the show later time?

[Chubby]

was this angle part of wwe? or did he get upset because of last week footage of him. and came to the ring on his own? iknow the show is live.

if it wasnt part of wwe i wonder if the will show that part for the areas they view the show later time?
it is now a angle as if it was pure shoot they would have cut away.


gee let me think... michaels vs hogan match next PPV? big shocker there... :rolleyes:

[MikeVic]

was this angle part of wwe? or did he get upset because of last week footage of him. and came to the ring on his own? iknow the show is live.

if it wasnt part of wwe i wonder if the will show that part for the areas they view the show later time?

No, it can't be Matt coming down on his own power. He was shown twice, between commercial breaks. :)

[MikeVic]

Didn't Hogan use this speech when he turned heel first?

[TLK]

Screw it folks....

Meanie and the BWO on Thursday and then the Hardy "shoot" angle tonight.... I might have to start watching again.

[SirFozzie]

WWE writing team was inspired this past week.

Hogan vs Michaels is super strong, and progressing nicely
Hardy vs Edge? NUCLEAR Strong. and could get stronger if Hardy plays his cards right in RoH.
Cena vs Jericho: Not like the first two, but strong anyway.

No HHH, No Batista.. No Problem

[Suicane75]

I liked the show this week, the Hardy thing was reminiscent of some of the best angles ever, and they did prefectly.

Micheals killing Hogan and Piper is awesome.

Benjamin is carrying Carlito threw a nice program that is building well after a sloppy start.

The Luchadors on Smackdown.

Hell, im friggin pumped for CM Punks debut.

I havn't enjoyed the product this much in a long time, and hells yeah I liked the diva search thing tonight, eye candy and top notch UIC is hard to touch.

[SirFozzie]

That's another angle that's really hot. CM Punk in RoH/

[TLK]

That's another angle that's really hot. CM Punk in RoH/
I plan on getting that DVD, when it's available. It sounds like they really worked the crowd well. Reminiscent of when the Dudleys won the tag belts on the night of their final ECW match.... strong booking for a medium promotion.

[jander]

Great job WWE, sure one of the few times I don't watch any of Raw and this happens. There is no way the WWE didn't know about this, there is no way someone would get into a ring like that and have anytime to do anything. I have seen it before and those people are jumped before they can do anything, and the cameras would have went away. I was really looking forward to Matt in TNA (to team up with Jeff again), but guess that won't be happening now.

In a way I don't blame Matt, hey you need to make a living, and the best living in wrestling is working for WWE. But, I fear after this fued he will just be another midcarder that they will job out to new wrestlers again, where if he was in TNA he could be main event all the way.

Maybe it is just a one fued deal with Matt to start with? Maybe a non-written contract, so he could still do other promotions (I doubt it, but he could probably have gotten about anything he wanted from Vince at this point).

Still upset that I missed it.

[Suicane75]

I just recently got alot of ROH vids and Punk and Joe both impress the hell out of me. It seems kind of weird how with the Punk angle, the screaming of ROH tonight, that maybe their may be a little cross promotion going on, although I cant for the life of me figure out why.

[SirFozzie]

WWE and RoH have an agreement dating back a few months. WWE doesn't mind, it gets them a foothold in the indys (along with OVW)

I think WWE got a really good one in CM Punk, but TNA might have gotten an even better one in Samoa Joe. (who debuted for them a few weeks ago)

[Suicane75]

I love Joes ringwork, but I think Punk may is alot more marketable for the E.

[duckman]

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/newsboard.php?news_id=12081

Matt Hardy returned to WWE on RAW last night in a "shoot" style segment. WWE designed the segment to come off as a shoot but it was entirely planned. Hardy shouted at Johnny "Ace" Laurinatis and also mentioned Ring of Honor during his post-brawl shouts after being tackled by security.

According to Ring of Honor, Hardy will still work his scheduled match against Christopher Daniels at their show on Saturday in Woodbridge, Connecticut.

Credit: PWInsider.com

[jbmagic]

what is a shoot?

[Suicane75]

A shoot is an unplanned thing happening. Something not part of the script. Like if a wrestler just decided to start talking about random shit instead of sticking to the script or if someone actually decides to kick someones ass in a match.

[TLK]

what is a shoot?
not a shoot.... brother.

[jbmagic]

A shoot is an unplanned thing happening. Something not part of the script. Like if a wrestler just decided to start talking about random shit instead of sticking to the script or if someone actually decides to kick someones ass in a match.


thanks

so that Bret hart and HBK screwjob was a shoot.

[Suicane75]

thanks

so that Bret hart and HBK screwjob was a shoot.
Yup.

What happened tonight was whats called a "worked shoot" It's a regular angle designed to look like a shoot.

Brian Pillman was famous for them and really got himself over at the end of his WCW run, when, he actually turned a worked shoot into an actualy shoot.

You see, Kevin Sullivan wanted to do an angle where Pillman would be fired, Pillman would then run rampant all over WCW as a loner type guy. But Pillman, being a smart guy, convinced Sullivan to actualy sign papers voiding his contract so it would seem more legit, he then immediatlely left the company. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[duckman]

thanks

so that Bret hart and HBK screwjob was a shoot.
Yes, Vince was afraid that Bret was going to take the title belt over to WCW. Bret had creative control for the final thirty days of his contract. He wanted to win the match and return the belt the very next night, but Vince had other ideas.

[TLK]

so that Bret hart and HBK screwjob was a shoot.
work

[Suicane75]

work
Dont confuse him, http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Neon_Chaos]

Matt Hardy baintains it was a shoot...

Matt Hardy posted the following message on his official message board at thematthardy.com following RAW last night.

If you guys are ready for a ride, jump the f*ck on. Well, I promised you all fireworks, so I hope I didn't disappoint. As of July 11th, 2005, my personal Independence Day, the Movement has begun-- and the Movement's purpose is two-fold. Purpose one--To never let anyone control what Matt Hardy says and does and thinks. Purpose two--To make Adam Copeland, Amy Dumas, and the WWE regret what they did to me, what they did to us. It's time for Matt Hardy to stand up for all the MFer's that have been chanting "We Want Matt", and "You Screwed Matt". Although you may not know this--you guys, the MFers, started the Movement months ago. I can now finally join the Movement because I am no longer controlled by the WWE. The McMahons, the Johnny Aces, and all of the WWE management can kiss my @$$. I did what I did tonight because for me to live with myself, Adam "Feces" Copeland must pay. I'm not going to let the WWE forget that they f*cked up when they released me instead of that scumbag home-wrecker. And Amy Dumas, you know what's it's like to have me as your closest ally--but you're gonna hate to see what it's like to have me as your worst enemy b*tch. Even though I didn't slash your tires FCF, slashed tires are going to be the least of your problems--Bank on it. A little message to the whore, the feces, and the horsesh*t "family" that is the WWE--Matt Hardy is like cancer, I don't go away and you won't find a cure. I thank EVERYONE that has supported me through thick and thin--I promise I will always be there for my MFers. I love you guys--and as I always say, without you, there is no me. I am going to turn a hugely negative situation into something that will benefit us. If you don't want to be able to predict what happens next, you're all in for a treat.

P.S. - If you're thinking about pressing charges Vince, I got a couple bucks, I'll fight it. Besides, I think I might have some pixs and video from a camera phone that shows your officers Rodney Kinging my @$$. My wrist is cut from the handcuffs, and I would suggest that there was a little unnecessary roughness involved in kicking me out of your building.

P.S.S. - And don't forget to catch Matt Hardy in action this Friday in Indiana, PA, this Saturday in Woodbridge, CT, and you never know where I'll show up on Sunday. And The Matt Hardy Show is so on...

Matt "F*cking" Hardy

From 411wrestling.com

Let's hope this doesn't backfire on all the sympathy that Hardy's been getting.

[Suicane75]

Im starting to think this has been a total work from the start.

[molson]

Another nice touch iis that WWE.COM's Raw Recap doesn't even mention the Hardy thing - basically playing it as if were an actual shoot, and not giving it any face time. It's just another example of the WWE's odd new philosophy over the last few weeks: like posting interviews with recently fired wrestlers, and reporting "exclusive" news from the Brock/Vince meetings. Clearly, the WWE is trying to develop a new kind of relationship with the Internet fans.

The Matt Hardy thing is beyond bizzare. He's been spending the last few months badmouthing Edge, Lita, and the WWE on his personal website, after being released for the company. No one has any idea when exactly this became a work: whether it was a work all along, or whether they're simply taking advantage of this new heat. It's just a very rare occurance of a "worked shoot" coming off very well.

[TLK]

oh my....

[Neon_Chaos]

I'd appreciate it if this was a work, and Hardy acknowledged that it was a work. By playing along and acting as if it were a shoot, then it's like a slap to every fan who's supported hardy from the get-go.

[jbmagic]

it was all setup by wwe.

they could of arrested Matt Hardy in the back when he attack edge.

and you notice Matt Hardy comes out once Kane leaves the arena.

[Neon_Chaos]

Anyway, I do LOVE the fact that the WWE is KAYFABE-ing the entire IWC!!! I can hardly believe it. Lol.

BRING ON THE GOOD OLD DAYS!!! ;)

Watching wrestling is going to be fun again!!! Hah!

[Neon_Chaos]

http://onguardhost.com/matthardy1.jpg

WOOOOORK!!!! :rolleyes:

[Suicane75]

Anyway, I do LOVE the fact that the WWE is KAYFABE-ing the entire IWC!!! I can hardly believe it. Lol.

BRING ON THE GOOD OLD DAYS!!! ;)

Watching wrestling is going to be fun again!!! Hah!
My sentiments exactly. Although I sometimes feel like the major sheet writers no whats going on but just don't report it, as for the lesser IWC contingent, they were played nicely.

[molson]

I'd appreciate it if this was a work, and Hardy acknowledged that it was a work. By playing along and acting as if it were a shoot, then it's like a slap to every fan who's supported hardy from the get-go.

Ya, apparently the freaks at Matt Hardy's message boards are a little upset (I haven't looked myself - that place scares me). But, it was probably the "We Want Matt" chants that eventually turned this thing into a work - so they got what they wanted.

[Flasch186]

now, if they let this stew for a few months itll be great, if they schedule the EDge v. Matt match for the very next PPV so it can be concluded it'll be more WWE killing storylines too quick. Memo to Vince, let the fanes enjoy this for a while.

[Bearcat729]

Matt needs to lay off the cupcakes

[duckman]

For those interested in the Matt Hardy story:

hxxp://www.thematthardyshow.com

(NSFW due to language)

[TLK]

That's is great....


(from wrestlingobserver.com)

The WWE Smackdown show in Frederick, Md., began promptly at 7:30pm in the outdoor venue Harry Grove Stadium (home of the class A minor league baseball Frederick Keys).

Booker T beat Christian with the ax kick (Christian seemed to have lost some change in the ring as he bent over and scrutinized the canvas at length so Booker T could deliver the finisher). Then Sharmel encouraged Booker to do the spinarooni!

Then Teddy Long came out to review the purported card that was to include Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey MIsterio, MNM vs. H&H (Holly and Heidenreich or Horrible and Horribler - take your pick), and Batista vs. JBL.

Next match was Super Crazy and Psicosis over Nunzio and Big Vito. Vito looked like a monster with those three in the ring but his clotheslines were loving and delicate. Crazy pinned Nunzio with a Lionsault (Crazysault?).

Then in came The Boogeyman! He ranted some but at the rant's climax where he exclaimed "I am The Boogeyman!" a huge clap of thunder pealed and lightning flashed in the distance. And when he then yelled "And I am your worst nightmare!" the heavens opened up and it poured. He obliterated Doug Basham in about 15 seconds in the rain.

The real crime is that there were no TV cameras. There are probably few special effects masters who could have provided that eerie thunderstorm atmosphere and timed the thunder and lightning and rain so perfectly. The heck with the match, this guy had perhaps the greatest ring entrance ever! I don't think I'll ever be caught in a storm again without "I am The Boogeyman!" bouncing around in my head.

The hard rain created a delay, and persistent lightning forced the show to halt. It was announced that the event was "postponed". Fans were to "hold onto your ticket stubs for when we rebook a visit to Frederick, Md." (I think that's WWE for "so long suckers, but we won't tell you you only got a three-match show so we can get out of here without a fight").
Personally, for The Boogeyman's awesome entrance arrangement with Mother Nature, the abbreviated show was well worth it. The crowd of maybe 2200 may not agree.

Ross Burbage
Westminster, Md.
http://home.insightbb.com/~dmcubfan/boogiemannew1.jpg

[MikeVic]

That's is great....


http://home.insightbb.com/~dmcubfan/boogiemannew1.jpg


Can't wait for this guy. :D

[duckman]

WWE Statement Concerning Muhammad Hassan

Due to the unfortunate terrorist attacks in London on Thursday, July 7, which coincided with our pre-produced WWE SmackDown! program, UPN has asked us to be sensitive to the usage of the Arab-American character, Muhammad Hassan. We have agreed with UPN, and have not had the character on SmackDown! since that date. It is uncertain as to whether or not the WWE will continue with this character beyond this Sunday’s Pay-Per-View, The Great American Bash.

I guess they are dropping the Hassan character because all the bad press they've recieved over the past few weeks.

[MikeVic]

Not WWE related really, but TNA signed a deal with SpikeTV to air their iMPACT show on Saturday nights, starting in October.

[duckman]

Not WWE related really, but TNA signed a deal with SpikeTV to air their iMPACT show on Saturday nights, starting in October.
Who cares? Jeff Jarrett runs that circus of a wrestling promotion. :D

[Suicane75]

Who cares? Jeff Jarrett runs that circus of a wrestling promotion. :D
One could always hope that Panda Energy would do the right thing and hire Cornete or Heyman to book the promotion. They have more than enough talent to compete. As the saying goes, Million dollar body, 2 cent brain.

[MikeVic]

As the saying goes, Million dollar body, 2 cent brain.

Never heard anyone describe Jarrett like that before... ;)

[DeToxRox]

Dave Meltzer is reporting that WWE will be dropping the Hassan character, and he will not be moving back to RAW

All over UPN demanding he be dropped from SD!

Hassan was an amazing charatcer with all sorts of heat. What a blow to the SD! brand

[Chubby]

Dave Meltzer is reporting that WWE will be dropping the Hassan character, and he will not be moving back to RAW

All over UPN demanding he be dropped from SD!

Hassan was an amazing charatcer with all sorts of heat. What a blow to the SD! brand
It was better the 1st time when he was the Iron Shiek

[DeToxRox]

It was better the 1st time when he was the Iron Shiek

I'd agree. But Cena was a lot better when he was Steve Austin, and it hasn't stopped people from going nuts for him.

[Chubby]

I'd agree. But Cena was a lot better when he was Steve Austin, and it hasn't stopped people from going nuts for him.
While similar, I don't think they are carbon copies like Hassan/Shiek. Cena really pushes his stupid hip hop crap on people all the time. You'd NEVER see Austin bowing to Hogan or anyone like Cena did in the 3 way match a couple of weeks back. You always had the feeling Austin would stunner anyone at any time, I don't have that feeling with Cena... he's too much straight face.

[DeToxRox]

While similar, I don't think they are carbon copies like Hassan/Shiek. Cena really pushes his stupid hip hop crap on people all the time. You'd NEVER see Austin bowing to Hogan or anyone like Cena did in the 3 way match a couple of weeks back. You always had the feeling Austin would stunner anyone at any time, I don't have that feeling with Cena... he's too much straight face.

True. I know what you're saying regarding Shiek/Hassan, but I think a lot of it too is the newer fans that remember seeing Shiek in the mid 90's remember him as being kind of a joke, so Hassan is probably fresh to them.

That said, Shiek was cooler.

[Flasch186]

While similar, I don't think they are carbon copies like Hassan/Shiek. Cena really pushes his stupid hip hop crap on people all the time. You'd NEVER see Austin bowing to Hogan or anyone like Cena did in the 3 way match a couple of weeks back. You always had the feeling Austin would stunner anyone at any time, I don't have that feeling with Cena... he's too much straight face.


If WWE has been listening to me...they will make Cena the biggest baby face they possibly can and then when he flips it'll be huge. Remember the rule here, moderate babyface/moderate heel, when flipped, only receives an equivalent response...moderate.

[Chubby]

True. I know what you're saying regarding Shiek/Hassan, but I think a lot of it too is the newer fans that remember seeing Shiek in the mid 90's remember him as being kind of a joke, so Hassan is probably fresh to them.

That said, Shiek was cooler.
totally agree on both counts.

flasch - of course that "should" happen with Cena. That's where he's different than Austin. Austin WAS a heel character that was simply popular.

[DeToxRox]

i think the coolest thing the WWE could do is this .. though it could never happen.

Have Shawn Michaels win the WWE Title at Royal Rumble.

Then have the actual royal rumble. During the rumble, have a voice go over the PA insisting he's coming back to take whats rightfully his. Everyone is dumbfounded.

When #30 is announced, HBK's music hits and he comes out. He gets a spot near the ring because he wants to see who it could be. Then .. Bret the Hitman Harts music hits and everyone goes nuts. HBK looks on in horror. Hart comes out to the ring, where for the sake of it being even cooler, Benoit, Christian, Edge and maybe Shelton Benjamin are left. They all gang up and take out Benjamin. Then it's down to the four Canadians. Benoit and Hart team up and get out E + C. Benoit lets Hart take him out, and HBK goes nuts.

There you have it. Witch Vince wanting to induct The Hitman into the WWE Hall of Fame at WM, he can do it, but then have the biggest WM Main Event Ever.

HBK vs Bret Hart for the WWE Title.

Who wouldn't pay to see that?

Just bored, and got to thinking .. But man it'd rule.

[MikeVic]

I think Bret is too injured to wrestle well anymore? From that Goldberg kick...

[duckman]

I think Bret is too injured to wrestle well anymore? From that Goldberg kick...
He had a stroke a couple years ago, so his wrestling days are over. I would like to see him come back for a proper farewell because he just disappear after that accidental kick from Goldberg.

[Flasch186]

...status quo stiff move from a hack named Goldberg

[Maple Leafs]

Bret will never wrestle again -- he probably couldn't even take a bump as a manager.

Still, I think it's inevitable that he gets his farewell tour at some point. It just makes too much business sense. You could probably sell out every building in Canada for months just to see Hart wave to the crowd.

[MikeVic]

Bret will never wrestle again -- he probably couldn't even take a bump as a manager.

Still, I think it's inevitable that he gets his farewell tour at some point. It just makes too much business sense. You could probably sell out every building in Canada for months just to see Hart wave to the crowd.

:D

That's why I'm wondering why there hasn't been a Bret DVD yet. That thing would sell so well. I thought I read that Vince and Bret were talking about a DVD and book, but that was over a year ago. :(

[duckman]

:D

That's why I'm wondering why there hasn't been a Bret DVD yet. That thing would sell so well. I thought I read that Vince and Bret were talking about a DVD and book, but that was over a year ago. :(
Bret owns the rights to the "Hitman" moniker. Because of this, Vince has spoken with him on several occassions about releasing a Bret Hart DVD, but they never came to agreement. I think they have talked about Bret making a final return as a Hall of Fame member, but they could never come to agreement there either.

[Neon_Chaos]

I'd want him to go take that Hall Of Fame offer.

Go out with a bang, and leave all the bitterness inside the ring.

[jbmagic]

Dave Meltzer is reporting that WWE will be dropping the Hassan character, and he will not be moving back to RAW

All over UPN demanding he be dropped from SD!

Hassan was an amazing charatcer with all sorts of heat. What a blow to the SD! brand

will PPV be the last time as Hassan character?

but he going to stil be on smackdown with a new character? i wonder how there going to spin that.

[Flasch186]

...they'll have him coming to the ring wearing a vest (whats wrong with me today!!)

[MikeVic]

...they'll have him coming to the ring wearing a vest (whats wrong with me today!!)

That'd be a cool way to end his character.

[duckman]

will PPV be the last time as Hassan character?

but he going to stil be on smackdown with a new character? i wonder how there going to spin that.Supposedly, Taker will "kill" Hassan at the PPV. He may have to go back to OVW for some time to develop a new image or make changes to this current one.

I would rather see him be "fired" by Long for something distasteful at the PPV and have him "hired" by Bischoff for RAW. The guy is a good wrestler with awesome mic skills. His character would probably fit cable better anyways.

[Neon_Chaos]

How about...

...being demolished by the UT, and then turning into a Righ-Wing Conservative Bible-thumping zealot, with the same hatred and passion, but a different religion. ;)

[duckman]

How about...

...being demolished by the UT, and then turning into a Righ-Wing Conservative Bible-thumping zealot, with the same hatred and passion, but a different religion. ;)
You may be onto something! :D

[Flasch186]

LOL....we could name the character...nah, ill leave it alone :)

[duckman]

Some more Smackdown news:

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/newsboard.php?news_id=12184

Major plans for the brand could be changed due to Hassan situation...

The working plan for Smackdown over the past few weeks was to having Randy Orton cost the Undertaker his match against Muhammad Hassan at the Great American Bash PPV. This would then establish Batista vs. Muhammad Hassan for the World Title and The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton as the top two Smackdown matches for Summerslam. Batista was expected to go over Hassan while Orton was expected to go over the Undertaker, leading to a major Batista/Randy Orton program.

With Hassan's character now set to end at the Great American Bash PPV, it will obviously force WWE to make some significant changes in their plans.

Credit: PWInsider.com

[duckman]

Here is an AP story about it:

STAMFORD, Conn. -- World Wrestling Entertainment has agreed to remove an Arab-American character from a popular television show after complaints about an episode featuring masked henchmen that aired the day of the London bombings.

The Stamford-based wrestling company said it would no longer feature Muhammad Hassan on its "SmackDown!" program. UPN, the station that airs the show, had asked WWE to be sensitive about the character, WWE said.

"It was an interesting character," said Gary Davis, a WWE spokesman. "This was an unfortunate sequence of events. Some people drew the conclusion these people were terrorists even though they were not terrorists."

During the episode, five Hassan henchmen in ski masks and camouflage ran into the ring to beat up his rival, the Undertaker, who had defeated Hassan's sidekick. The men then carried Hassan's sidekick over their heads, which to some evoked a martyr's funeral.

The show did not air in London, but it did appear in the U.S. with an advisory to parents because of the bombings, Davis said. The segment sparked 200 to 300 complaints, he said.

"There really wasn't any time for UPN to edit the program. So they opted to put up an advisory," Davis said.

While Hassan will not appear again on "SmackDown!," he will be featured Sunday on a pay-per view event. Beyond that, his future is uncertain.

"SmackDown!" draws more than 5 million viewers per week, Davis said.

"We asked them to remove it because we thought that was the right thing to do," said Joanna Massey, a UPN spokeswoman.

Hassan, a character introduced last November and played by Mark Copani, grows up in Detroit as a typical American.

But after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, he believes he is treated differently by his fellow Americans, leading him to embrace his Arab roots and feel alienated from the U.S.

"The whole point of the story line and this character was to point out the injustices Arab-Americans have suffered since 9-11," Davis said.

But the American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee objected to the character. One of its campaigns resulted in nearly 500 complaints sent to WWE, a spokeswoman said.

The character could raise doubts about the patriotism of Arab-Americans, said Siwar Bandar, communications coordinator for the committee.

"The character deals with a very sensitive issue," Bandar said. "However, he does so in a context that is violent, that is turning his back on America."

The committee welcomed the decision to take the character off "SmackDown!" and hopes WWE will make major changes to the character or not feature the wrestler at all, Bandar said.

WWE counts on villains to draw fan interest in its plots, said WWE analyst Dennis McAlpine, managing director of McAlpine Associates in Scarsdale, N.Y. With the Cold War long over, Russians are out and it's getting tougher to find a bad guy, he said.

"You can't find too many more bad guys any more," McAlpine said. "I think the character was probably getting a bit over the top any way."

The controversy left Hassan angry on a recent episode in which he was greeted with shouts of "USA" as he entered the ring. One fan held up a sign telling him to leave the country.

"Because of my heritage, because of my background, I'm labeled 'terrorist,' " Hassan told the fans to a chorus of boos. "I have been denied my God-given right to pursue the profession of my choice, to pursue the American dream."

[jbmagic]

so what happen on the great amercian Bash tonight?

what the results?

any more news on Hassan character?

[duckman]

so what happen on the great amercian Bash tonight?

what the results?

any more news on Hassan character?
Here are the results:

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/tvreports/article.php?tvreports_id=2309

They did "kill" off the Hassan character after Taker powerbombed him through the stage after the match. They showed him lying on the concrete with his head busted opened. They sent him to a "local medical facility".

[jbmagic]

thanks duckman

wow no secret revealed by Eddie..

its going to be interesting to see what character Hassan comes back as on Smackdown

[MikeVic]

thanks duckman

wow no secret revealed by Eddie..

its going to be interesting to see what character Hassan comes back as on Smackdown

Probably as Simon Dean's fitness partner.