Let the trades begin

[kingfc22]

The Rockies dealt Preston Wilson to the Nats and then got Eric Brynes from the A's.

hxxp://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2107378

[Crapshoot]

Jim Bowden is an idiot- but that's hardly news. Preston Wilson is hardly better than your average schlub OF at this point - and he's going to sit Ryan Church, a better hitter, for this.

[Ksyrup]

Boston and the A's completed the Payton/Bradford deal, but now Payton may be going to the Yankees.

Nationals signed Mike Stanton.

Blue Jays and Marlins might have a deal for AJ Burnett, but only if he agrees to a contract extension.

Red Sox may trade Millar to Houston.

Devil Rays pick up of Borowski means Baez is even more likely to be shipped to the Marlins, Braves, Cubs, or Rangers.

[korme]

WOW to every trade so far

[Arles]

I like what the Rockies did. Getting Byrnes, Day and a couple prospects for Wilson, Kennedy and Whitasick seems like good value for them. I don't think the A's did all that badly and it seems that Nationals are hoping Wilson follows what Burnitz is doing out of Coors field.

[Balldog]

Typical Bowden, I don't think he realizes you can only play 3 OFers at a time in the NL. He now has Wilkerson, Church, Guillen, Byrd, and Wilson.

[Fouts]

I like what the Rockies did. Getting Byrnes, Day and a couple prospects for Wilson, Kennedy and Whitasick seems like good value for them. I don't think the A's did all that badly and it seems that Nationals are hoping Wilson follows what Burnitz is doing out of Coors field.

Byrnes is a fan favorite in Oakland, surprised they traded him. There goes half of their in-between inning highlights. I suppose they made out though, if you count the payton deal.

[Crapshoot]

I like what the Rockies did. Getting Byrnes, Day and a couple prospects for Wilson, Kennedy and Whitasick seems like good value for them. I don't think the A's did all that badly and it seems that Nationals are hoping Wilson follows what Burnitz is doing out of Coors field.

You're kidding right ? The wilson deal was decent, but Day is at best a mediocre starter- should have seen what kind of loot the Yanks would have offered. As for the A's trade- all they did is trade for what BP aptly called a HTWG - Hustling Telegenic White Guy. Not much in the way of skill, but people love em!

[Toddzilla]

The Preston Wilson move was idiotic, but then again Day and Davis were never going to play in DC anyway. However, like Balldog said, The Nats now have too many outfielders. For the time being Wilkerson moves to virst, but what happens when Nick Johnson comes back? Who's the odd man out? Johnson? Byrd?

[Arles]

You're kidding right ? The wilson deal was decent, but Day is at best a mediocre starter- should have seen what kind of loot the Yanks would have offered. As for the A's trade- all they did is trade for what BP aptly called a HTWG - Hustling Telegenic White Guy. Not much in the way of skill, but people love em!
Wilson and Kennedy (lost his starting spot on the Rockies) are way overrated, IMO. Whitasick (aging middle reliever) was a waste of space on the Rockies roster given their team right now. Day and Burns are decent value, plus the prospects. I think the A's did well too and the Nationals got their bat. Still, I don't think anyone was going to overpay in a trade for Wilson and I think Byrnes probably had more value.

[Buccaneer]

I'm anxiously awaiting the news of Adam Dunn being traded to the Pads.

[bbor]

Any idea who the Jays are giving up for Burnett?.....I imagine it's Orlando Hudson plus???

[MikeVic]

Any idea who the Jays are giving up for Burnett?.....I imagine it's Orlando Hudson plus???

Ahh.. I like Burnett, but I really like O-Dog. :(

[korme]

I'm anxiously awaiting the news of Adam Dunn being traded to the Pads.
Don't know how well he'd do in Petco.

[Travis]

As far as the Jays are concerned, rumors were surrounding Hudson, Batista and Chacin as the main possible proponents in the deal. The Jays were hoping to make Lilly or Bush the main player on their side of the deal, but I would hope that they make it Hudson and swing one of the two young guys over to 2B as we have 3 guys to man the corners and play DH (plus an extra OF body or two).

No way can we afford to lose Batista if they want to try and make a run this year, and to lose Lilly or Chacin at this point hurts the rotation as much as you're helping it. Now if you can throw a rotation of Halladay, Lilly, Burnett, Chacin and Towers (if they are still in it once Roy returns), they've got a helluva chance so long as the mid relievers don't lose them a glut of ball games.

[bbor]

As far as the Jays are concerned, rumors were surrounding Hudson, Batista and Chacin as the main possible proponents in the deal. The Jays were hoping to make Lilly or Bush the main player on their side of the deal, but I would hope that they make it Hudson and swing one of the two young guys over to 2B as we have 3 guys to man the corners and play DH (plus an extra OF body or two).

No way can we afford to lose Batista if they want to try and make a run this year, and to lose Lilly or Chacin at this point hurts the rotation as much as you're helping it. Now if you can throw a rotation of Halladay, Lilly, Burnett, Chacin and Towers (if they are still in it once Roy returns), they've got a helluva chance so long as the mid relievers don't lose them a glut of ball games.

I dunno if they'd give up anyone in their starting rotation right now....i think they want Burnett to replace Halladay until he comes back.Giving up a starter for him would make the deal redundant.I think Hudson,Catalanoto,Rios,Gross could be on they way out.I wish i could add Hinske to that list,but who would want him?

[Travis]

I dunno if they'd give up anyone in their starting rotation right now....i think they want Burnett to replace Halladay until he comes back.Giving up a starter for him would make the deal redundant.I think Hudson,Catalanoto,Rios,Gross could be on they way out.I wish i could add Hinske to that list,but who would want him?
You forget, you're using logic and common sense ;)

From what I've read, Florida is looking for pen help, but Batista's salary is pretty prohibitive for him to be involved (which is nice because really, other than him, who do we have in the pen?).

Chacin seems to be one that Florida wants, though the Jays would rather offer Bush (giving up too quickly?) or Lilly (older more expensive lefty, not sure if I'd be in favor of this over Chacin though, he's been on fire lately).

I'm with you in wishing we'd package something of Hudson, Hinske and Catalanotto (have Johnson, Wells and Rios starting with Gross possibly platooning with Reed). Could move one of the young guys to second with Koskie coming back to play 3B, that'd bump Shea to DH with Hinske (just can't see anybody biting on him) at 1B.

I really hope we don't move Lilly/Chacin/Rios. I really think Rios could develop into a great 3 or 5 hitter, and if we're going to get through the month without Halladay, a lot of it will come down to Lilly maintaining the hot streak he's riding right now.

[JeeberD]

I'm anxiously awaiting the news of Adam Dunn being traded to the Pads.

Sorry, but he's coming to Houston...

[MIJB#19]

Why the [bleep] haven't these MLB teams given me a phone call? There a potential dream job for me there! (Yeah, I may not like baseball that much, but I know the basics a bit and can learn to at least appreciate the game...)

[Ksyrup]

I dunno if they'd give up anyone in their starting rotation right now....i think they want Burnett to replace Halladay until he comes back.Giving up a starter for him would make the deal redundant.
Apparently not...

With The Blue Jays reeling from Roy Halladay's injury, they could be the favorites to land AJ Burnett. The key would be Burnett agreeing to a contract extension with the Blue Jays.
Apparently the Marlins covet Toronto's rookie left-hander Gustavo Chacin and Toronto will part with him if it lands them Burnett. ''If [Toronto] could sign Burnett, the deal would get done now,'' the source said. Stay tuned. Jul. 13 - 11:38 am et

[ice4277]

Apparently not...

With The Blue Jays reeling from Roy Halladay's injury, they could be the favorites to land AJ Burnett. The key would be Burnett agreeing to a contract extension with the Blue Jays.
Apparently the Marlins covet Toronto's rookie left-hander Gustavo Chacin and Toronto will part with him if it lands them Burnett. ''If [Toronto] could sign Burnett, the deal would get done now,'' the source said. Stay tuned. Jul. 13 - 11:38 am et
The Marlins also are apparently trying to land Mike Maroth from the Tigers to help cover the loss of Burnett.

[Chas in Cinti]

The Preston Wilson move was idiotic, but then again Day and Davis were never going to play in DC anyway. However, like Balldog said, The Nats now have too many outfielders. For the time being Wilkerson moves to virst, but what happens when Nick Johnson comes back? Who's the odd man out? Johnson? Byrd?

Wilson's knee has been progressing like gang-busters the past month and his performance has began to rebound. I think you'll see him in left, with Wilkerson and Guillen, respectively completing the outfield. Johnson will regain his 1B job upon his return from injury (and why not, he's been on base in all but 4 games he's played) and Byrd and Church will take their well-earned positions next to Wil Cordero on the pine...

:)

Regards,
Chas

[MikeVic]

Apparently not...

With The Blue Jays reeling from Roy Halladay's injury, they could be the favorites to land AJ Burnett. The key would be Burnett agreeing to a contract extension with the Blue Jays.
Apparently the Marlins covet Toronto's rookie left-hander Gustavo Chacin and Toronto will part with him if it lands them Burnett. ''If [Toronto] could sign Burnett, the deal would get done now,'' the source said. Stay tuned. Jul. 13 - 11:38 am et

What the fuck. I don't understand the logic in this trade then... Chacin is a rookie, and is doing fairly well. Why trade him for another pitcher? It doesn't add another capable body to the rotation...

I also heard from somewhere that the Jays would like to add a #4 bat in the best scenario... Dunn's name was brought up.

[jeff061]

I can't wait to get rid of Millar, I hate that whiny dick.

[Balldog]

Sorry, but he's coming to Houston...

Whoever gets him better enjoy his 200 Ks a year.

[John Galt]

Bowden sucks.

I knew he was going to start making crappy trades sooner or later. If there ever was a case of a team succeeding despite their GM, it would be this year's Nats. Guzman - the worst regular in MLB signed for 4 years; Castilla - sucks donkey balls; and Wilson - broken player with Coors numbers (obviously no lesson learned from Castilla). If all 3 of those players are in the starting lineup, the Nats will continue to be among the worst offenses in the league. You just can't win with that.

Here are Wilson's road stats this year: .224/.280/.411 for a booming .691 OPS. And he has a gimpy knee to boot.

Church is not a long term answer and is playing above his head, but here is what he has done (while playing in a pitcher's park): .325/.381/.544.

The New Bowden offense:

CF Wilkerson .271/.376/.433
2B Vidro .288/.368/.480
1B Johnson .320/.444/.508
RF Guillen .310/.360/.539 (Bowden's only good move, but no one ever doubted Guillen's ability)
LF Wilson .224/.280/.411 (we can only hope he improves on those road stats)
3B Castilla .253/.330/.397
C Schneider .263/.323/.412
SS Guzman .201/.239/.291
P

The dropoff between the top 4 in the lineup and the bottom 5 is ridiculous.

And an interesting tidbit. The 2005 salaries of the top 4 in the lineup: 15 million (7 mill to Vidro).

The 2005 salaries for the 4 through 8 hitters: 21.7 million (12.5 mill to Wilson).

If though the Nats aren't paying all of Wilson's salary, it is embarrasing that any of those players (except Schneider) is getting paid for what they do.

[Bee]

I thought picking up Mike Stanton was a decent gamble with little downside. He may be washed up, but for a minsal experiment it's worth taking a long shot gamble.

As far as the Wilson for Day and Davis trade...it doesn't upset me like it seems it does some here. Day looked like a below average pitcher to me and I don't know if Davis will ever be more than a minor leaguer. Wilson is average at best and way overpaid, but the Rockies are picking up some of his salary. This trade looks to me more like a couple teams moving around crappy players than anything else...

[John Galt]

I thought picking up Mike Stanton was a decent gamble with little downside. He may be washed up, but for a minsal experiment it's worth taking a long shot gamble.

As far as the Wilson for Day and Davis trade...it doesn't upset me like it seems it does some here. Day looked like a below average pitcher to me and I don't know if Davis will ever be more than a minor leaguer. Wilson is average at best and way overpaid, but the Rockies are picking up some of his salary. This trade looks to me more like a couple teams moving around crappy players than anything else...

Stanton is probably useless, but not the worst gamble. It isn't as though the bullpen is a need area, so as long as Frank doesn't put him in high leverage situations, it isn't a big deal.

The problem I have with Wilson is just the opportunity cost. Day is nothing special, but may have had slightly more value. Davis was never given a chance, but he could do well in Colorado (and follow the Guillen Rule 5 pick career path if he is REALLY lucky). My problem is the way Bowden used a little extra money under his new budget. Instead of using it to improve the team, he allocates it to a player that is a downgrade from Church. The team gets worse at the cost of more money. That just doesn't make sense to me.

[Bee]

Stanton is probably useless, but not the worst gamble. It isn't as though the bullpen is a need area, so as long as Frank doesn't put him in high leverage situations, it isn't a big deal.

The problem I have with Wilson is just the opportunity cost. Day is nothing special, but may have had slightly more value. Davis was never given a chance, but he could do well in Colorado (and follow the Guillen Rule 5 pick career path if he is REALLY lucky). My problem is the way Bowden used a little extra money under his new budget. Instead of using it to improve the team, he allocates it to a player that is a downgrade from Church. The team gets worse at the cost of more money. That just doesn't make sense to me.

Well...I don't want to get put into a position of defending Bowden because I don't think he's a good GM...but I'm not sure what other moves would have been available without giving up legitimate prospects. I think they needed to make some move to try to bring in some more power hitting just to avoid the backlash from fans. This year not a lot of teams are looking to unload people so the price is a little higher than normal and most teams I'd expect are looking for decent prospects. The Nats just don't have the prospects to give up IMO, so that leaves them trading crap for crap which is what happened.

[John Galt]

Well...I don't want to get put into a position of defending Bowden because I don't think he's a good GM...but I'm not sure what other moves would have been available without giving up legitimate prospects. I think they needed to make some move to try to bring in some more power hitting just to avoid the backlash from fans. This year not a lot of teams are looking to unload people so the price is a little higher than normal and most teams I'd expect are looking for decent prospects. The Nats just don't have the prospects to give up IMO, so that leaves them trading crap for crap which is what happened.

The problem I have is that LF is not a position that was in need of an upgrade and Wilson is a downgrade. 3B, SS, and CF (assuming we can find a player who can do well offensively and defensively) are the primary needs. Unfortunately, since we have two Bowden sinkholes at 3B and SS, he decided to add another OF (who really can't play CF anymore). I'm not sure they could get more than they got, but this move strikes me as a step in the wrong direction. It makes the team net worse at a cost of more money. That is just like the Guzman and Castilla signings, IMO.

[bbor]

What the fuck. I don't understand the logic in this trade then... Chacin is a rookie, and is doing fairly well. Why trade him for another pitcher? It doesn't add another capable body to the rotation...

Agreed.

[WSUCougar]

Hmmm. The Cards are curiously quiet thusfar, and we really need some outfield help. You know Jocketty is going to pull something out of his magical hat. But what/who?

[HomerJSimpson]

Hmmm. The Cards are curiously quiet thusfar, and we really need some outfield help. You know Jocketty is going to pull something out of his magical hat. But what/who?


The Cards need help? What does that say about the rest of the league?

[WSUCougar]

The Cards need help?
Hey, nobody's perfect. :D

Seriously, though, Larry Walker is a walking disabled list, Edmonds has proven to be susceptible to injuries time and again, and Sanders is no spring chicken. On the bench we've got guys that can play short-term, but that disrupts the mix and is no long-term answer. AAA is a wasteland.

Paging Mike Cameron...Mike Cameron, please pick up the white courtesy phone.

[SelzShoes]

The Cards need help? What does that say about the rest of the league?
The NL is really really weak this year. If the Cards win the pennant, they'll need help to win the series. The record they have posted is against the 29th strongest schedule in baseball, so there is reason to believe they aren't as strong as they appear.

[Fonzie]

Hey, nobody's perfect. :D

Seriously, though, Larry Walker is a walking disabled list, Edmonds has proven to be susceptible to injuries time and again, and Sanders is no spring chicken. On the bench we've got guys that can play short-term, but that disrupts the mix and is no long-term answer. AAA is a wasteland.

Paging Mike Cameron...Mike Cameron, please pick up the white courtesy phone.
Agreed on all counts. OF help is essential.

[Maple Leafs]

What the fuck. I don't understand the logic in this trade then... Chacin is a rookie, and is doing fairly well. Why trade him for another pitcher? It doesn't add another capable body to the rotation...Buy low, sell high? A chance to get an established (cough) starter for a rookie who may be a one-year wonder? After all, Chacin wasn't projected to be a star in this league and his season has been up-and-down.

[Young Drachma]

What the fuck. I don't understand the logic in this trade then... Chacin is a rookie, and is doing fairly well. Why trade him for another pitcher? It doesn't add another capable body to the rotation...

I also heard from somewhere that the Jays would like to add a #4 bat in the best scenario... Dunn's name was brought up.

I think we have too many young arms in the Jays organization. No way all of them are going to pan out, so I say that it makes sense to start dealing arms now if we can get someone whose proven, because if we have to wait 3-5 more years for this franchise to get its act together...I dunno.

I hope the deal goes through, especially in the AL East where having Burnett (especially if we get him signed past this season) would be a huge shot in the arm for our rotation long term.

[Swaggs]

Interestingly, Pirates SP Mark Redman is supposedly now on the block and the two teams most attached to him are the Blue Jays and Marlins. Pirates are in need of corner INF, so maybe the Jays match up well.

He has a 3.76 ERA in 18 starts and is relatively affordable ($4.5M), but he will be a FA after this season. I'm wondering when the Pirates will quit trading guys like this and start trying for comp picks (which have really been taken advantage of by large market teams lately, it seems to me).

[Fouts]

Nice first at-bat for Preston Wilson (HR). I don't think the Nats payed much for him, but he wasn't exactly tearing it up in Colorado.

[henry296]

Interestingly, Pirates SP Mark Redman is supposedly now on the block and the two teams most attached to him are the Blue Jays and Marlins. Pirates are in need of corner INF, so maybe the Jays match up well.

He has a 3.76 ERA in 18 starts and is relatively affordable ($4.5M), but he will be a FA after this season. I'm wondering when the Pirates will quit trading guys like this and start trying for comp picks (which have really been taken advantage of by large market teams lately, it seems to me).

Redman probably will be a free agent, but there is a mutual option (both team and player) for next season. I don't know if the Pirates would get compensation if they decline the option and he became a free agent.

[Blade]

I think we have too many young arms in the Jays organization. No way all of them are going to pan out, so I say that it makes sense to start dealing arms now if we can get someone whose proven, because if we have to wait 3-5 more years for this franchise to get its act together...I dunno.

I hope the deal goes through, especially in the AL East where having Burnett (especially if we get him signed past this season) would be a huge shot in the arm for our rotation long term.

True enough...we have been drafting young left handers like they are going out of style. Even if two or three pan out, we are going to have a wealth of arms to choose from...

That said, I really like Chacin, and I don't want to see him go.

[MikeVic]

That said, I really like Chacin, and I don't want to see him go.

He's a character. Has the funny delivery, the glasses... Great first name. :D

I'm just afraid that we'll run into a problem of not having enough pitchers in a couple of years... The fall-out of Guzman, Ward, and Hentgen are recent enough for me to remember... and I don't want to go through that again. :(

[QuikSand]

If you can get full value for a guy like Chacin, who is basically exceeding both expectations and the expected results given his base skill set evidenced thus far -- then it makes sense to do so. Sure, he may have some good years ahead of him, but there's also a very solid chance that what we're seeing is basically a half season fueled substantially by a good deal of luck, which will level out and bring his stats up to a more expected level. The tapering off in his last five starts may well be a sign that he's coming to earth a bit.

Sell high. I have no problem with that.

[MikeVic]

Damn this board, convincing me to think differently. :mad: Maybe this is why I don't fare too well in online leagues... too much attachment to the players on my team. :P

[Ksyrup]

I know this isn't a trade (although it may prompt one), but since this is where most of the baseball discussion is happening...Wang on the DL for the Yanks. Must...resist...urge...to...Woo Hoo!

[Blade]

Damn this board, convincing me to think differently. :mad: Maybe this is why I don't fare too well in online leagues... too much attachment to the players on my team. :P

Heh, I was thinking the same thing...I am way too attached to players, though all the arguments for the trade makes a ton of sense...

[korme]

Al Leiter designated for assignment by the Fish.

[Ksyrup]

That was suggested earlier today on Rotoworld. At least that was a 1-year deal. Shoulda stuck with the broadcast booth, huh?

[MikeVic]

That was suggested earlier today on Rotoworld. At least that was a 1-year deal. Shoulda stuck with the broadcast booth, huh?

I liked him there too. Hopefully he returns. :)

[Travis]

Well, as much sense as it might make to trade Chacin in a deal for Burnett, I think the main strike against it is that it doesn't help the Jays all that much this year. Yeah, it'll upgrade Chacin's spot in the rotation (marginally?), but in no way replaces Halladay.

If they can manage to work a deal that includes some of their extra infielders and outfielders, then you have Lilly/Burnett/Chacin/Towers which is still a pretty strong top 4. Take Chacin out of that if he's included in the deal, and who else do you throw in there that you can rely on to even go .500 during Halladay's injury? And once Roy returns, you have a nice balance of lefty/righty talent to make a playoff push if they can keep within 7 games or so of 1st or the wildcard.

Chacin for Burnett (so long as he signs an extension) would strike me very much as a sell high move aimed at getting the team over the hump next year.

[Swaggs]

That was suggested earlier today on Rotoworld. At least that was a 1-year deal. Shoulda stuck with the broadcast booth, huh?

I'd say that there were about 8 million good rea$on$ to not stick with the broadcast booth this season. :)

[dawgfan]

Wilson and Kennedy (lost his starting spot on the Rockies) are way overrated, IMO. Whitasick (aging middle reliever) was a waste of space on the Rockies roster given their team right now. Day and Burns are decent value, plus the prospects. I think the A's did well too and the Nationals got their bat. Still, I don't think anyone was going to overpay in a trade for Wilson and I think Byrnes probably had more value.

I'm not much of a Wilson fan, but I hardly think Kennedy is a stiff. Check his minor league numbers - he was a major stud. His TB numbers are OK, and he did quite well last year in Coors Lite. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see him rebound post-Coors into a pretty good starter. And Witasick has been pretty good 3 of the last 4 years and doesn't cost a fortune - he's a good pick-up.

[Ksyrup]

The Yankees are aggressively pursuing Shawn Chacon, especially since losing Chien- Ming Wang yesterday.
Minor-league pitchers Sean Henn and Scott Proctor are rumored to be coming back for Chacon. Expect a deal for Chacon to go down in the next day or two. Jul. 15 - 10:43 am et

[rkmsuf]

Yankers lose Wang

News at 11.

[Fonzie]

Yankers lose Wang

News at 11. If you'd like to peruse a varity of juvenile takes on this injury, see the Boston Red Sox's fan board:

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=14221&st=20

Some are quite good.

[rkmsuf]

Why yes I would but linky no worky.

[Fonzie]

Why yes I would but linky no worky.
That's weird - the hotlink won't work, but if you copy and paste it'll work fine.

Hmmm.

[Fonzie]

dola

works now.

[rkmsuf]

that's good stuff



That's gotta hurt them, because Wang was plugging a lot of holes.

[pennywisesb]

Man, as a huge A's fan, I hated to see Byrnes go, but May will add a decent left-handed arm to our staff...Plus, with Swisher, Kielty, and Kotsay all doing pretty good, I guess Byrnes became expendable. Plus, there were rumors he had fallen out of favor with Macha.

[JeeberD]

Looks like because of the trade to Colorado, El Pasoan Omar Quintanilla may very well see some major league action this year... :)

[Young Drachma]

He's a character. Has the funny delivery, the glasses... Great first name. :D

I'm just afraid that we'll run into a problem of not having enough pitchers in a couple of years... The fall-out of Guzman, Ward, and Hentgen are recent enough for me to remember... and I don't want to go through that again. :(

That was tough, no doubt. Guzman and Wardo just fell completely off the map. That was weird. I think we were cursed, because after '93, we just started vetting guys left and right, thinking that remaking the team like we did from '92 to '93 would be the way to win again..and I didn't believe that it was.

Personally, I never wanted to see guys like Tom Henke leave..even though Ward was great for those few years after he was sent packing. Molitor would've stayed another year, too.

It'll be interesting to see what the team does this off-season, the first in a while we've been actual players in the market, rather than sellers or standing pat.

[Ksyrup]

Burnett to the Orioles is basically a done deal, now it's whether Lowell gets included:


Mike Lowell's name is being thrown around in the rumored trade between the Orioles and Marlins for A.J. Burnett.
The deal has Burnett and Lowell going to Baltimore for a combination of reliever Jorge Julio, right-handed pitching prospect Hayden Penn and possibly outfielder Larry Bigbie and lefty reliever Steve Kline. If the Marlins can unload a slumping Lowell and his $18 million salary over the next two seasons, they'd have more money for free agents and can move Miguel Cabrera over to third, which is where he's most comfortable. Jul. 16 - 10:20 am et

[henry296]

Interesting. I am guessing the Orioles would move Mora to left field and play Lowell at third. I have no problem unloading Bigbie to get a pitching prospect.

[QuikSand]

The pitching prospect ion that deal is Hayden Penn, of course, who has rapidly improved his stock this year to become (easily) the Orioles' top prospect. Burnett is only 29, and I don't have a problem moving for him -- but this isn't a move for the future for the Orioles.

[henry296]

Just a follow-up from the Baltimore Sun.

The plan would be to play Lowell at 1st to give Palmiero a day off / DH. I guess Surhoff or Gibbons would play left and Mora would stay at 3rd. They have also offered Ponson instead of Penn, but I can't see the Marlins taking Ponson with his salary.

[Maple Leafs]

JP can't get the deal done. Shocking.

[QuikSand]

They have also offered Ponson instead of Penn, but I can't see the Marlins taking Ponson with his salary.

Absolutely not.

[Ksyrup]

I wouldn't take Ponson if he had a 10 year, $3 contract over a highly-regarded prospect.

[MikeVic]

No written source from me... but on a sports channel here they're saying Leiter to the Yankees.

[Logan]

No written source from me... but on a sports channel here they're saying Leiter to the Yankees.

Pretty sure its been confirmed on ESPN.com.

[Terps]

At least Ponson would probably go to long relief if the O's get Burnett.

Burnett, Bedard, Lopez, Cabrera, Chen would be the rotation.

[TazFTW]

No written source from me... but on a sports channel here they're saying Leiter to the Yankees.
Yep and apparently it is just a cash deal with the Yankees paying part of his salary. He is slated to start against Boston on Sunday.

[QuikSand]

Sounds like the Yanks are picking up a whopping $400K for the balance of the season for Leiter.

[Ksyrup]

Now I have one more reason to root against the Yankees. I'd much rather listen to Leiter in the booth during the playoffs than see him pitch.

[Ksyrup]

A source told the Baltimore Sun that only the Orioles and Red Sox still in the race for A.J. Burnett.
The Orioles package still includes Hayden Penn, Jorge Julio and Larry Bigbie. They also might be willing to take Mike Lowell, assuming they can dump Steve Kline's contract in the process. The Red Sox would give up Bronson Arroyo and prospects. Jul. 17 - 11:59 am et

[CraigSca]

I'm a notorious prospect-first guy, but I'd like to see the O's keep Hayden Penn. It seems that every prospect they have has blown out their elbow within 1-2 years. It's nice to see Bedard finally live up to his potential (though he's proven to be injury prone), I'd like the O's to give Penn that opportunity as well.

Do you think Sidney Ponson is embarassed yet about his performance? Wouldn't it stink to know your team is finally good, but you're, by far, the worst starter on the team? Wouldn't that make you want to do something about it?

[sterlingice]

Can someone explain to my why the Marlins are so hung up on trading Burnett? I just don't understand it at all. It seems like trading him just to get rid of the Lowell contract, which, really, isn't that bad.

SI

[henry296]

Can someone explain to my why the Marlins are so hung up on trading Burnett? I just don't understand it at all. It seems like trading him just to get rid of the Lowell contract, which, really, isn't that bad.

SI

He is a free agent at the end of the year and they don't think they can pay him the $8-10 million per year he could demand as a free agent. Better to get something now than draft picks later.

Todd

[rkmsuf]

and Bronson Arroyo is a far better musician

[Fonzie]

Do you think Sidney Ponson is embarassed yet about his performance? Wouldn't it stink to know your team is finally good, but you're, by far, the worst starter on the team? Wouldn't that make you want to do something about it?
Indeed it would. For poor Sidney, though, it is probably just stressful enough to make him want to sit down in front of the TV and eat a whole tub of chocolate frosting.

[rkmsuf]

http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PRODUCT&PROD_ID=1562901&cid=64666&fp=F

[Ksyrup]

Couple of updates:


The Baltimore Sun believes the Orioles are close to acquiring A.J. Burnett and Mike Lowell from the Marlins for Hayden Penn, Jorge Julio and Larry Bigbie.
Marlins prospect Eric Reed and Orioles lefty Steve Kline might also change teams. A source told the Sun that an announcement could come today, but a team official said it is doubtful it would happen that soon. Jul. 18 - 12:30 pm et


A source told the South Florida Sun-Sentinel that the Marlins are giving serious consideration to firing manager Jack McKeon.
Just a year and a half after the World series victory. If McKeon goes, candidates to replace him include Yankees bench coach Joe Girardi, Marlins managers Jim Leyland and Jeff Torborg, Devil Rays manager Lou Piniella, former Red Sox manager Grady Little and Braves third-base coach Fredi Gonzalez. Jul. 18 - 12:28 pm et

[Fonzie]

http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PRODUCT&PROD_ID=1562901&cid=64666&fp=F
Customers who bought this item often buy...
http://images.overstock.com/f/102/3117/8h/www.overstock.com/images/products//muze/music/T120214.jpg (http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?page=proframe&prod_id=142273)
Little River Band - Greatest Hits (http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?page=proframe&prod_id=142273)
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr><td class="NewCatListPercent" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">List Price:</td><td class="text" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">$11.98</td></tr> <tr><td class="NewCatListPrice" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Our Price:</td><td class="NewCatListPrice" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">$9.14</td></tr> <tr><td class="NewCatListPercent" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Save: $2.84</td><td class="NewCatListPercent" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">(23%)</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[Ksyrup]

http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PRODUCT&PROD_ID=1562901&cid=64666&fp=F
They must have a different definition of "overstocked" than I do. How can they have an overstock of an item that hasn't been released yet? And who would pay almost $15 for a CD by a baseball player?

[rkmsuf]

They must have a different definition of "overstocked" than I do. How can they have an overstock of an item that hasn't been released yet? And who would pay almost $15 for a CD by a baseball player?

another baseball player?

[WSUCougar]

Cards REALLY need an outfielder now. Reggie Sanders has a hairline fracture and is out for 4-6 weeks.

[Raven]

latest news...O's/Marins/Pirates working on a 3 way deal. The gist of it...

O's get Burnett and Daryle Ward
Marlins get Julio, Bigbie, Penn
Pirates get Lowell

[INDalltheway]

Cubs aquired Jody Gerut for Jason Dubois... Looks good for the Cubbies.

[Neuqua]

Cubs aquired Jody Gerut for Jason Dubois... Looks good for the Cubbies.

I think this is a good move for Jason now that he is in the American League.

I never thought I would ever wish for the days of Moises Alou's defense out in left but watching Jason play there just made me cringe every time.

[Swaggs]

Marlins get SP Mark Redman from the Bucs.

Pirates would get Mike Lowell and cash for Mark Redman and Daryle Ward. Is Lowell a goner? He had great stats up to this season. Were his big power (looks like he was a solid 30 double/30 homer guy in his prime) numbers potentially from steroids?

[Ksyrup]

Redman has not been traded yet. This is supposedly part of a 3-way with the Orioles...


According to the Baltimore Sun, the Orioles are working on a three-team deal that would bring them A.J. Burnett and Daryle Ward.
Baltimore is apparently not interested in Mike Lowell, so Pittsburgh is getting involved to make the trade work. The Pirates would reportedly send Mark Redman to the Marlins while receiving Lowell and prospects, and it's unclear which teams would receive Hayden Penn, Jorge Julio and Larry Bigbie. Jul. 19 - 9:51 am et

[MizzouRah]

I hope the Cardinals get Jason Bay, that would be my choice. :)

[rkmsuf]

how could you want a guy that went o-fer in the homerun derby

[Arles]

Another twist on the Lowell trade. It seems that Florida will end up paying about $20 million of Lowell's remaining salary - which is why Pittsburgh is interested.

[Cuckoo]

I think this is a good move for Jason now that he is in the American League.

I never thought I would ever wish for the days of Moises Alou's defense out in left but watching Jason play there just made me cringe every time.

While I agree with you completely, I think Dubois has a great deal of potential as a hitter, and I'm somewhat disappointed in the trade. I admit that I don't know a lot of Gerut, though, so I'll wait and see.

More than anything, I think this trade indicates Patterson won't be up again anytime soon - notice Hendry's comments on needing a left-handed bat and Gerut's ability to play centerfield.

[Ksyrup]

Another twist on the Lowell trade. It seems that Florida will end up paying about $20 million of Lowell's remaining salary - which is why Pittsburgh is interested.
Good Lord! How much is left in total?

[Ksyrup]

According to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, the Red Sox have called the Twins about J.C. Romero and the Twins may be interested in Bill Mueller.
The Twins reportedly may also have some interest in Kevin Millar as they try to find some offense. Jul. 19 - 10:01 am et

[rkmsuf]

you've hit rock bottom when you are interested in Millar for offense

[Terps]

According to the Miami Herald (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/12166964.htm):

1) "All that now appears to be holding up the deal with Baltimore is how much of Lowell's remaining salary the Marlins would agree to pay to complete the trade. Lowell is due to make about $21 million before his contract runs out after the 2007 season."

2) "Another rumored three-team trade also involving the Pittsburgh Pirates that was reported to be in the works by numerous media outlets turned out to be untrue."

[samifan24]

While I agree with you completely, I think Dubois has a great deal of potential as a hitter, and I'm somewhat disappointed in the trade. I admit that I don't know a lot of Gerut, though, so I'll wait and see.

More than anything, I think this trade indicates Patterson won't be up again anytime soon - notice Hendry's comments on needing a left-handed bat and Gerut's ability to play centerfield.

As an Indians fan, I like this move. Gerut has a lot of potential but is injury prone and was losing time behind Crisp and Sizemore. Dubois has the righthanded power bat potential that the Indians so desperately seek. I think it's a fair swap for both clubs.

[Ksyrup]

Now I'm confused...why would the Marlins agree to pay all of Lowell's salary? If you're going to pay him, why not just keep him? He's Cuban, which is good for the local crowd.

The only eay this makes sense is if they're getting back some really good prospects, plus the fact that they can move Cabrera back to 3rd. But really, if they end up paying almost all of his salary, you'd have to think they know something huge about him that we don't.

[sterlingice]

Now I'm confused...why would the Marlins agree to pay all of Lowell's salary? If you're going to pay him, why not just keep him? He's Cuban, which is good for the local crowd.

The only eay this makes sense is if they're getting back some really good prospects, plus the fact that they can move Cabrera back to 3rd. But really, if they end up paying almost all of his salary, you'd have to think they know something huge about him that we don't.
Yeah- this is the part of the trade that's really baffling to me. They weren't getting nearly enough for Burnett and I figure it was because they were shoving Lowell down the throat of this trade. I figured they were doing that because it was a salary dump and that's part of why they were taking Kline back but now they're paying most of it to get... Mark Redman?? It just doesn't make sense.

SI

[Swaggs]

I hope the Cardinals get Jason Bay, that would be my choice. :)

If that happens, I might forsake the Pirates and baseball altogether.

[MizzouRah]

If that happens, I might forsake the Pirates and baseball altogether.
heheh... we need help in OF for the future..

[Terps]

Gammons: It's everyone's understanding that the Orioles deal will happen, according to the agents of 3 players involved. The holdup is now on the split of Lowell's contract. He's also pretty sure that the 3-way trade is still a go.

The 3 way would be the same as earlier but w/ Bigbie going to Pittsburgh and Lowell to Baltimore.

Says Florida won't talk w/ the Red Sox about Burnett, and that the agents for 3 of the players involved were told to expect a trade.

[Ksyrup]

Along those lines, Burnett shook him head when asked whether he would be pitching tonight (he is the scheduled starter).

[rkmsuf]

Along those lines, Burnett shook him head when asked whether he would be pitching tonight (he is the scheduled starter).


that's quite a manuever

[Terps]

Towards the end of the show, Gammons updated and said Pittsburgh was out of the deal, the O's are insisting the Marlins pay $10 million of Lowell's salary, and then made an offer of Julio, Penn, and Bigbie, for Burnett and Perisho, and the Marlins refused.

[sterlingice]

Good for the Marlins. Maybe they're starting to realize this deal was stupid.

SI

[Swaggs]

Pittsburgh Post Gazzette reports that if/when the O's and Marlins complete that deal, the Pirates will send Mark Redman to Florida for Larry Bigbie.

The excitement just grows and grows in Pittsburgh.

[CraigSca]

Can they just make this deal already?! I realize last night's loss to Minn had nothing to do with starting pitching, but this has just been hanging out there for a while now. I wonder if this is taking a long time due to the combined braintrust of Flanagan/Beattie. Having dual GMs is just retarded IMO.

[Ksyrup]

According to Jayson Stark on Mike & Mike this morning, the Marlins are about to call Toronto, Boston, and Chicago (WS) back to revive trade talks on Burnett. The sticking point appears to be that the Marlins don't want to pay more than half of Lowell's remaining contract, or else they feel like they should keep him. But they are apparently the ones insisting that it be a package deal. Which is why the Pirates had to be involved, because the Orioles don't need Lowell, unless he's basically free.

Sounds like the Marlins are the ones making this unnecessarily complicated. Just remove Lowell from the equation. He's a mini-Thome, apparently.

[Scholes]

According to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, the Red Sox have called the Twins about J.C. Romero and the Twins may be interested in Bill Mueller.
The Twins reportedly may also have some interest in Kevin Millar as they try to find some offense. Jul. 19 - 10:01 am et

Apparantly the coaching staff has had it with Romero's immaturity and is looking to ship him. He's a solid left handed reliever which can go a long way for many teams. That being said. Mueller and Millar are Bret Boone all over again, and we certainly don't need that. I beg the Twins to not make this move. I do not want Joe Randa either.

They're a lost cause anyway. Start rebuilding now.

[/RANT]

[Terps]

Can they just make this deal already?! I realize last night's loss to Minn had nothing to do with starting pitching, but this has just been hanging out there for a while now. I wonder if this is taking a long time due to the combined braintrust of Flanagan/Beattie. Having dual GMs is just retarded IMO.
Has nothing to do w/ B & F, Angelos stuck his nose in on how much of Lowell's contract they will take. B & F have a deal in place, it's just up to Angelos to approve it.

After this season, I doubt it'll be an issue anyway if it was B & F, because Beattie will likely be gone w/ Flanagan as the lone GM.

[CraigSca]

Interestingly, according to the Baltimore Sun, there are a few in the organization that are not enamored with AJ Burnett and the feeling is, if they are going to mortgage future prospects like Hayden Penn, that the O's would want a "sure thing" in return (not a guy who has never won more than 12 games and who has been on the DL 4 times in his career).

In a way, I'm glad. I'd love to see a rotation with Bedard, Cabrera, John Maine and Hayden Penn in a couple years.

[Ksyrup]

AJ Burnett is most likely a rich man's Darren Dreifort.

[QuikSand]

Sure, he has injury issues - but I like Burnett's skils a LOT. Perhaps the Darren Dreifort comparison isn't off base.

[Ksyrup]

I think he's better than Dreifort...but I also think it's probable we'll never see how good he could be.

[Izulde]

*eyes an earlier post*

Burnett to the White Sox? That'd make our pitching even scarier, I think. Hopefully that'd boot Contreras out of the rotation, who I'm not impressed with in the least.

[Ksyrup]

I think Contreras would be part of a deal for Burnett. At least, that's what I've read. But I have a feeling those trade talks have probably progressed further on a board like this than in real life.

[Swaggs]

Here's an interesting one that has been floating around.

Red Sox trade Millar and Muellar to the Twins for Lohse and Romero.

Red Sox then trade Lohse and Arroyo to the Marlins for Burnett.

Is Burnett really that much better than Arroyo?

[rkmsuf]

nope and then the red sox would likely have to reup burnett at big money and possibly take on some of Lowell's dough.

Burnett is a little better yes but not likely the difference maker.

[korme]

AJ Burnett is most likely a rich man's Darren Dreifort.
With way better skills.

[korme]

Here's an interesting one that has been floating around.

Red Sox trade Millar and Muellar to the Twins for Lohse and Romero.

Red Sox then trade Lohse and Arroyo to the Marlins for Burnett.

Is Burnett really that much better than Arroyo?
Dude. Yes. He is way better than Mr. Cornrows. And his potential is a lot higher than Arroyo's as well.

[Swaggs]

Interestingly, Burnett is about a month and a half older than Arroyo.

I'm not trying to champion Arroyo over Burnett or anything, but, after you factor in the AL vs NL in their stats, Burnett looks just slightly better.

[QuikSand]

I agree, I like both of these young pitchers a good deal -- think Arroyo is more maligned than he deserves, he's going to be a very solid pitcher in short order.

[henry296]

Interestingly, Burnett is about a month and a half older than Arroyo.

I'm not trying to champion Arroyo over Burnett or anything, but, after you factor in the AL vs NL in their stats, Burnett looks just slightly better.

And the Pirates had Arroyo and let him go for nothing.

[Swaggs]

And the Pirates had Arroyo and let him go for nothing.

Just like Wakefield.

and Lieber.

and Schmidt.

and soon to be Kip Wells.

[korme]

Atleast you have had a good young arm. We just get outfielders.

[henry296]

Just like Wakefield.

and Lieber.

and Schmidt.

and soon to be Kip Wells.

You mean Brant Brown, Armando Rios and Ryan Vogelsong aren't anything :).

I don't have a problem with losing Wakefield, he was awful for a couple of years with the Pirates after his breakthrough rookie year.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Braves trade Gryboski to Rangers

By DAVID O'BRIEN
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 07/21/05

PHOENIX — The Braves kept busy on their day off, trading reliever Kevin Gryboski to the Texas Rangers for a low-level pitching prospect and calling up rookie left-hander Macay McBride from Class AAA Richmond.

Gryboski had a 2.95 ERA in 31 appearances, and a .300 opponents' average that included a .327 average and .422 on-base percentage by right-handed batters.

In an Atlanta bullpen that has the National League's second-worst opponents' average by first batters, Gryboski's .458 mark was the second-highest among NL relievers.

Atlanta acquired right-hander Matt Lorenzo, 23, from the Rangers and will assign him to Class A Myrtle Beach. He was 1-4 with a 4.02 ERA in nine starts at Class A Bakersfield, where he recorded 55 strikeouts with 21 walks in 53-2/3 innings.

[Easy Mac]

so we basically gave him away. eh whatever, I wasn't a Grybowski fan.

[HomerJSimpson]

so we basically gave him away. eh whatever, I wasn't a Grybowski fan.


I agree, but I still wonder why we gave him away. Was his salary that high? I can't imagine it was.

[21C]

He has a salary of $877,500.

[Swaggs]

I think the Braves are just playing with House Rules.

They have to have at least half of their roster loaded with rookies.

[TazFTW]

Have Grybowski save face by trading him instead of demoting/DFA him?

[Travis]

Jays trade John McDonald to the Tigers for a PTBNL.

Not sure what they're looking to pick up there, but McDonald was a pretty good guy to have on the bench. Pretty much loved by anybody who has played with him or coached him and hitting just a shade under .300 as a reserve while playing some solid/sometimes spectacular D. Nice luxury to have on the bench, hope we're at least getting some bullpen quality help out of this.

[Terps]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2114524

The Baltimore Orioles (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bal) could have a new ace as soon as Friday night.
ESPN's Peter Gammons reports that talks between the Marlins and Orioles for pitcher A.J. Burnett (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6314) heated up Friday afternoon.

According to a source, if the Orioles can move pitcher Sidney Ponson (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5984) -- rumored to go through Texas, possibly to Tampa Bay -- Baltimore can use the money saved to make third baseman Mike Lowell (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6133)'s contract work.

So long Sidney!

[Mr. Sparkle]

Padres made a couple moves today...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2114944

The Baltimore Orioles on Saturday have agreed to trade right-handed pitcher Sidney Ponson to San Diego for first baseman Phil Nevin.

Buster Olney reports that Nevin has a limited no-trade clause and he hasn't approved the deal yet. The Orioles are on the list of teams he does not want to be traded to.

With Ponson moving to the Padres, the Orioles deal to acquire Florida Marlins right-hander A.J. Burnett has been shelved.

A three-way deal with the Orioles and Texas Rangers, which would have sent Burnett to Baltimore, was "killed" by the Orioles this weekend, according to a baseball man familiar with the deal, ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reported. So the Marlins are believed to have broken off talks with Baltimore, at least for now, and are back to focusing on offers by the Chicago White Sox, Boston Red Sox and Toronto Blue Jays.

Lowell, who is batting a disappointing .230 with just four homers and 39 RBI, is owed about $21 million through 2007.

Ponson was moved to San Diego once he refused a trade to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for left-handed reliever Trever Miller.

The Padres have a need for a starter with Adam Eaton likely heading to the bullpen. Troubled with elbow pain, Eaton can't throw his curveball, relegating him as a fastball-changeup reliever.

Now the Marlins have to try to find a taker for third baseman Mike Lowell with Burnett, or return to the possibilities with the White Sox and Red Sox.

The White Sox figure to head the list of other deals, with prospect Brandon McCarthy heading the package along with Jose Contreras. The Red Sox offer would center on right-handed pitcher Bronson Arroyo.

Also, ESPNews is reporting that the Padres acquired Joe Randa for a couple minor leaguers. That deal I like. The Ponson deal, not so much. Mainly because Ponson sucks ass. I'm just glad that what the Giants traded for him a few years ago didn't amount to anything. Assuming Nevin OK's the deal, prepare for some frustration Padres fans.

[ISiddiqui]

The O's picked up Nevin AND Randa? Where are they both going to play? Only one can DH.

[Mr. Sparkle]

The O's picked up Nevin AND Randa? Where are they both going to play? Only one can DH.

No, the O's picked up Nevin while the Padres got Randa and Ponson.

[DaddyTorgo]

i still see the red sox ending up with Burnett (though maybe that's just b/c I'm a homer and refuse to consider other possibilities). As much as I love my (literal) neighbor Bill Mueller, sending him and Kevin Millar off and ending up with JC Romero and Burnett while Minnesota ends up with Mike Lowell seems to make the most sense, once it gets down to "under the gun" time.

then we can play Youky at 3B and Olerud/Ortiz at 1B, maybe give 'Tek some days off behind the plate down the stretch and DH him while Ortiz plays 1B (his defense there isn't as horrible as people seem to think, not that it's great, but it ain't horrible). It would all just...be so nice. Burnett holds up the rotation till the playoffs when Schill is ready to slide back in and Foulkie is back, and then Arroyo/Wakefield/Miller head to the pen (personally I'd pick Miller, but that's just me).

[Swaggs]

I would think the O's would be more likely to take Lowell with Burnett now that Ponson's big salary is off the books. I'm curious as to why it says talks with the Orioles have been "shelved."

[ISiddiqui]

No, the O's picked up Nevin while the Padres got Randa and Ponson.
Ahhhhh... does this mean that Burroughs didn't work out?

[Mr. Sparkle]

Ahhhhh... does this mean that Burroughs didn't work out?

I would say so. I think he needs a change of scenery with the hope of getting back on the right track.

[ISiddiqui]

EGADS! I just saw Burroughs stats... I had no idea he was doing that badly! And he had so much promise back in the day.

[GreenMonster]

EGADS! I just saw Burroughs stats... I had no idea he was doing that badly! And he had so much promise back in the day.


Burroughs had that one small run and needs to be on a different team in a different lineup. Good trade.

[Vince]

I don't understand why the Pads went out of their way to get Ponson. He's not really that good. Giving up Nevin + Prospects for Randa + Ponson doesn't seem like a move in the right direction...more like a move to make a move.

I like the acquisition of Randa to make up for the loss of Nevin -- that's good. But to give up prospects when you didn't get all that great of an SP in the other deal...not so good.

[Mr. Sparkle]

EGADS! I just saw Burroughs stats... I had no idea he was doing that badly! And he had so much promise back in the day.

Yep, it's that bad. I would assume he could be had for relatively cheap, which I don't think would be such a bad idea for one of the smaller market teams (although he's in his arbitration years, don't know how much he'd get in it though).

[TazFTW]

According to an AP report, Nevin has not waived his no-trade clause, so the trade with Baltimore is on hold.

[Buccaneer]

He's just wanting to see what his role in Baltimore would be.

Burroughs was given plenty of chances to succeed but never came close.

Randa starts at 3rd, X at 1st (or Klesko there and X in RF). Ponson can't be any worse than some of the starters now - but he makes way too much.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Nevin and Ponson's salaries are pretty much a wash, I believe.

[Buccaneer]

Would you pay that much for a SP3 or SP4?

[Mr. Sparkle]

Nope, which is one of the reasons I'm not a fan of the trade. On second thought, I guess I am a fan of it, since I am a San Francisco Giants faithful. Although, given our recent trade history, I don't have much room to talk.

[Terps]

Nope, which is one of the reasons I'm not a fan of the trade. On second thought, I guess I am a fan of it, since I am a San Francisco Giants faithful. Although, given our recent trade history, I don't have much room to talk.
I would've traded Ponson to San Diego for a pack of sunflower seeds.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Sure, from Baltimore's standpoint, they made out like bandits. From a Padres standpoint, I wouldn't like it.

[TazFTW]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2115581

Sounds like Nevin does not want to go.

[Swaggs]

I wonder if the Padres will ever sign anyone w/ a no-trade clause again? Sounds like this is the third deal that he has killed.

[stevew]

What if the Padres just designate Nevin for assignment, and take on Ponson anyways, along with a lot of cash from the Orioles? Its not like the Orioles really want either.

[QuikSand]

Now there are rumors that Texas may be willing take on Big Sid. Perhaps in a deal involving Richard Hidalgo (whom I recall being on a one year deal).

[stevew]

Nevin needs a solid kick in the c*nt. Then again, their gm has tried to trade him 3 times to one of the 8 teams nevin will agree to go to via trade. Maybe he needs a kick as well.

[JeeberD]

Hidalgo

*snicker*

[Bad-example]

I guess Nevin just isn't a Hampsterdam kinda guy.

[TazFTW]

Heh.

<TABLE width="100%" align=center><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD bgColor=#1f2f55 colSpan=3>Manny Ramirez - OF - BOS (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&id=5132) - Jul. 26 - 1:22 pm et </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top colSpan=3>According to SI's Tom Verducci, Manny Ramirez wants to be traded from the Boston Red Sox. Again.
Ramirez reportedly told team officials he is unhappy in Boston, particularly with his lack of privacy off the field. This would be the third time in four years that Ramirez has requested a trade. The report also states the Red Sox have no intention of moving him. This most likely is just another of one Manny's many mood swings. Jul. 26 - 1:22 pm et
Source: CNNSI.com (http://premium.si.cnn.com/pr/subs/siexclusive/2005/pr/subs/siexclusive/07/25/verducci0802/index.html)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[WSUCougar]

Nevin needs a solid kick in the c*nt. Then again, their gm has tried to trade him 3 times to one of the 8 teams nevin will agree to go to via trade. Maybe he needs a kick as well.
Why is it Nevin's fault? What's the point of even having a no-trade clause if you can't invoke it?

Not trying to pick a fight...I just don't understand your point.

[jeff061]

What a loser Ramirez is. The rabid fans and asshole media overlook his wackiness and give him respect because he plays the game so well. Then he bitches about not liking Boston.

I wish we could ship that baby to Montreal.

[Neuqua]

Man, the Cubs could use a productive Outfield bat.

[JeeberD]

Looks like the Astros might be up to something...

Fresh off his first Major League win for the Houston Astros last Tuesday, Round Rock starter Ezequiel Astacio pitched just two innings Monday in his shortest appearance of the season. Astacio, who'd lasted just three innings in his previous start for the Express on July 10 against Nashville, threw 39 pitches and allowed just one Redbird hit before being relieved by right-hander Scott Strickland to start the third.

"There's a possibility he's going back to the big leagues (today)," Express manager Jackie Moore said. "We don't know for sure yet, but trust me, I didn't want to take him out of there after that second inning."

Doesn't look like there's anywhere for him to fit on the Astros roster and he's been rumored to be trade bait before...

[TazFTW]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap bgColor=#10518c>Alfonso Soriano (http://fantasybaseball.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&id=6154) - 2B - Rangers (http://fantasybaseball.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.asp?sport=MLB&majteam=TEX)</TD><TD width=40 background=/images/dia_wt_2_trans_tr.gif bgColor=#10518c><SPACER type="block" width="35" height="16">
</TD><TD noWrap> [/url]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR height=1 width="100%"><TD width="100%" bgColor=#10518c height=1><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="1">
</TD></TR><TR width="100%"><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>At one point yesterday Alfonso Soriano got a call from his agent telling him to pack his bags and that he was traded to the Mets. Only moments later did he receive another call telling him that the deal hit a snag.
The Rangers are asking for Aaron Heilman and Yusmeiro Petit at the moment, but the Mets want to substitute Victor Zambrano for Heilman. Regardless, it's looking more likely Soriano will be headed to the Mets this weekend. Jul. 28 - 1:21 pm et
Source: [url="http://www.nj.com/mets/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/112252916037070.xml&coll=1"]Dallas Morning News (http://fantasybaseball.rotoworld.com/lm/reports/teamhome.asp?leaguenum=&showtm=xxx)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>As a Braves fan, I really don't want to see Soriano on the Mets.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Mr. Sparkle]

Soriano is overrated in my opinion, especially since he'll likely recieve upwards of $10 million bucks in arbitration this offseason.

[Klinglerware]

As a Braves fan, I really don't want to see Soriano on the Mets.




I wouldn't worry about Soriano--if you look at his Home-Away splits, he is absolutely horrible away from Texas. And this is over two years, so it's probably not a fluke. He will be exposed if he moves to the pitchers park that is Shea...

[hukarez]

Why is it Nevin's fault? What's the point of even having a no-trade clause if you can't invoke it?

Not trying to pick a fight...I just don't understand your point.
In the end, Nevin didn't want to uproot his family and has accepted a bench role. He had some applause throughout the game on Tuesday, but it accelerated into boos when he went 0-4.

They've pretty much made up and Kevin Towers apologized to Nevin for going behind his back about the whole trade thing.

[Swaggs]

It's fun to look through this thread at all of the rumors that were set to go down with a day or two.

I'm sure there will be some serious action in the next few days, though.

[TazFTW]

I wouldn't worry about Soriano--if you look at his Home-Away splits, he is absolutely horrible away from Texas. And this is over two years, so it's probably not a fluke. He will be exposed if he moves to the pitchers park that is Shea...Whoa, didn't realise how much of a difference his home/away stats were. Still, I would think Soriano's offense would be an upgrade over Kaz Matsui/Miguel Cairo.

[Klinglerware]

Whoa, didn't realise how much of a difference his home/away stats were. Still, I would think Soriano's offense would be an upgrade over Kaz Matsui/Miguel Cairo.

That's probably true. The Rangers could still be making out like bandits, depending on how desperate the Mets are to land Soriano, though...

[ISiddiqui]

That's probably true. The Rangers could still be making out like bandits, depending on how desperate the Mets are to land Soriano, though...
Not if the deal with Zambrano and Petit... I still can't believe we dealt Kazmir for that joker.

[TazFTW]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=378 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#4a3a85>Shawn Chacon (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?leaguenum=&sport=MLB&id=6713) - S - COL (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.asp?leaguenum=&sport=MLB&majteam=COL)</TD><TD width=40 background=/images/dia_wt_2_trans_tr.gif bgColor=#4a3a85><SPACER height="16" width="30" type="block">
</TD><TD align=right></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR height=1><TD bgColor=#4a3a85 height=1><SPACER height="1" width="1" type="block">
</TD></TR><TR><TD>The AP has confirmed that the Yankees will acquire Shawn Chacon from the Rockies for pitching prospects Eduardo Sierra and Ramon Ramirez.
It will likely become official after the Rockies finish tonight. Chacon is expected to start for the Yankees on Saturday. Jul. 28 - 9:33 pm et
Source: The Associated Press (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-rockies-yankeestrade&prov=ap&type=lgns)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Philliesfan980]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=378 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#4a3a85>Shawn Chacon (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?leaguenum=&sport=MLB&id=6713) - S - COL (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.asp?leaguenum=&sport=MLB&majteam=COL)</TD><TD width=40 background=/images/dia_wt_2_trans_tr.gif bgColor=#4a3a85><SPACER height="16" width="30" type="block">
</TD><TD align=right></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR height=1><TD bgColor=#4a3a85 height=1><SPACER height="1" width="1" type="block">
</TD></TR><TR><TD>The AP has confirmed that the Yankees will acquire Shawn Chacon from the Rockies for pitching prospects Eduardo Sierra and Ramon Ramirez.
It will likely become official after the Rockies finish tonight. Chacon is expected to start for the Yankees on Saturday. Jul. 28 - 9:33 pm et
Source: The Associated Press (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-rockies-yankeestrade&prov=ap&type=lgns)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Boy the Yankees are really getting desperate.

Leiter, Brown, Johnson, Nomo, and Chacon

Wow

[Comey]

Is Eduardo Ruben's son? ;)

[MikeVic]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=378 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#4a3a85>Shawn Chacon (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?leaguenum=&sport=MLB&id=6713) - S - COL (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.asp?leaguenum=&sport=MLB&majteam=COL)</TD><TD width=40 background=/images/dia_wt_2_trans_tr.gif bgColor=#4a3a85><SPACER height="16" width="30" type="block">
</TD><TD align=right></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR height=1><TD bgColor=#4a3a85 height=1><SPACER height="1" width="1" type="block">
</TD></TR><TR><TD>The AP has confirmed that the Yankees will acquire Shawn Chacon from the Rockies for pitching prospects Eduardo Sierra and Ramon Ramirez.
It will likely become official after the Rockies finish tonight. Chacon is expected to start for the Yankees on Saturday. Jul. 28 - 9:33 pm et
Source: The Associated Press (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-rockies-yankeestrade&prov=ap&type=lgns)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

How many prospects do the Yankees have left? Haven't they made a billion trades in the last few years where they ship a prospect or two for a vet?

[dawgfan]

How many prospects do the Yankees have left? Haven't they made a billion trades in the last few years where they ship a prospect or two for a vet?

Ramirez is a mid-level prospect, Sierra is a marginal prospect. The Yanks didn't pay a whole lot for Chacon, but it's more than I would've.

Contrary to popular opinion, the Yankees farm system isn't devoid of prospects. Guys like Sean Henn, Melky Cabrera, Eric Duncan and Philip Hughes are pretty good prospects, especially Hughes.

[MikeVic]

Ramirez is a mid-level prospect, Sierra is a marginal prospect. The Yanks didn't pay a whole lot for Chacon, but it's more than I would've.

Contrary to popular opinion, the Yankees farm system isn't devoid of prospects. Guys like Sean Henn, Melky Cabrera, Eric Duncan and Philip Hughes are pretty good prospects, especially Hughes.

I just don't understand how they keep bodies there... each team only gets a certain amount of draft picks each year, and it seems like the Yankees trade FAR more of their prospects than any other team... but they still have their farm system full?

[dawgfan]

I just don't understand how they keep bodies there... each team only gets a certain amount of draft picks each year, and it seems like the Yankees trade FAR more of their prospects than any other team... but they still have their farm system full?

The draft is not the only way to acquire talent. The Yanks do very well in signing international players not subject to the draft.

[MikeVic]

The draft is not the only way to acquire talent. The Yanks do very well in signing international players not subject to the draft.

Ok, thanks. I didn't know that.

[TazFTW]

Hmmm

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap bgColor=#10518c>Alfonso Soriano (http://fantasybaseball.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&id=6154) - 2B - Rangers (http://fantasybaseball.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.asp?sport=MLB&majteam=TEX)</TD><TD width=40 background=/images/dia_wt_2_trans_tr.gif bgColor=#10518c><SPACER height="16" width="35" type="block">
</TD><TD noWrap> [/url]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR height=1 width="100%"><TD width="100%" bgColor=#10518c height=1><SPACER height="1" width="1" type="block">
</TD></TR><TR width="100%"><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>According to the Newark Star-Ledger, the Rangers and Mets are working on a blockbuster trade.
The reported deal would send Alfonso Soriano and Adrian Gonzalez to New York for Mike Cameron, Lastings Milledge and Yusmeiro Petit. Milledge, Petit and Gonzalez are all among the top prospects in baseball. However, the Rangers continue to insist that they are not close to dealing Soriano. Jul. 29 - 10:22 am et
Source: Newark Star-Ledger (http://fantasybaseball.rotoworld.com/lm/reports/teamhome.asp?leaguenum=&showtm=xxx)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap bgColor=#10518c>Alfonso Soriano (http://fantasybaseball.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&id=6154) - 2B - Rangers (http://fantasybaseball.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.asp?sport=MLB&majteam=TEX)</TD><TD width=40 background=/images/dia_wt_2_trans_tr.gif bgColor=#10518c><SPACER height="16" width="35" type="block">
</TD><TD noWrap> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR height=1 width="100%"><TD width="100%" bgColor=#10518c height=1><SPACER height="1" width="1" type="block">
</TD></TR><TR width="100%"><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>The Mets front office reportedly hasn't even spoken to the Rangers about Alfonso Soriano, according to the New York Daily News.
This certainly contradicts everything else that is out there. If true, it's good news if you own Soriano in an AL-only league. Still, there seems to be too much smoke for there not to be a fire. Jul. 29 - 11:07 am et
Source: [url="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/story/332592p-284214c.html"]New York Daily News (http://fantasybaseball.rotoworld.com/lm/reports/teamhome.asp?leaguenum=&showtm=xxx)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[TazFTW]

Lots of rumors now. Manny and the Mets (Glavine and Cameron). Soriano and the Cubs. Billy Wagner and the Red Sox with the Boston Herald saying the Red Sox would be willing to give up Arroyo, Youkilis, and catcher prospect Kelly Stoppach.

[jeff061]

Why do the Sox hate Youkilis so much.

[Ryche]

I'd give up any 2 of Romero, Mays or Lohse from the Twins for Youkilis if they don't want him.

[hukarez]

Ugh.

Phil Nevin traded to the Rangers for Chan Ho Park.

As a Padres fan, I'm seriously irritated by this.

Chan Ho Park.

Goddammit.

[WSUCougar]

Ugh.

Phil Nevin traded to the Rangers for Chan Ho Park.

As a Padres fan, I'm seriously irritated by this.

Chan Ho Park.

Goddammit.
Glad the soda can was empty when I read this one. What a riot!

[ISiddiqui]

Chan Ho Park? WTF? Do the Pads want to lose the division?

It doesn't look like Soriano is going to be a Met. Too many prospects involved when originally rumored it was just one and Zambrano/Heilman for Soriano. Minaya wants talent, but he's not an idiot like Phillips.

Though they could get Manny. That would be something. It appears that it would be a 3 way deal between the Sox, Mets, and D-Rays. Mets would get Manny and Baez, Sox get Huff and Cameron, and the D-Rays get two prospects a piece from both teams (Petit and Milledge from NY and Shoppach and Sanchez from the Sox).

[RPI-Fan]

ESPNews was putting Manny in a three-way deal:

Manny and Danny Baez to Mets
Aubrey Huff and Cameron to Red Sox
bunch of prospects to DRays

[RPI-Fan]

That deal is not bad for the Pads at all, I don't think. Park has had success in the NL before and I think could find his form in the very weak west division.

Great trade for the Padres, IMO.

[hukarez]

Chan Ho Park? WTF? Do the Pads want to lose the division?
I seriously wish I knew the answer to this question.

On the networks here, folks are calling in screaming for Kevin Towers' head.

Chan Ho Park.

All my Korean friends despise Chan Ho Park.

Koreans altogetherhate Chan Ho Park.

I'm keeping my Padres' jersey on it's hangar in my closet, and will not don my SD cap until I am pleased.

Goddammit.

Why bother trading for another pitcher if the team can't score any damn runs??

Chan Ho Park.

We traded for Chan Ho Park!!!!!

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif

[stevew]

Yes, but finally that Bastard Phil Nevin got traded, and theres not a damn thing he could do about it. Look at the bigger picture!

[Swaggs]

How bad is Park's contract?

Is that Mets/Sox/Rays deal legitimate or just an idea being tossed around? I can't understand trading Manny, no matter what a weirdo he is.

[henry296]

The Orioles have removed Larry Bigbie from their game, with no apparent injury.

[ISiddiqui]

IIRC, Park is making like $14-15 million a year. Nevin is making $9 million. So they'll have to equalize the contracts, I believe, before it goes through.

[Swaggs]

I hope Bigbie doesn't get traded to the Pirates. He has been rumored to go to the Pirates for Matt Lawton. He seems to be a corner OF that can make a little contact, but has little power or discipline. We don't really need one of those.

[DaddyTorgo]

i can't understand trading manny for just aubrey huff and mike cameron!! and having to give up 2 prospects (shoppach and anibel sanchez) too. I mean for that I think I'd want huff to have numbers as good as Manny's, which he definately doesn't

[Buccaneer]

Ugh.

Phil Nevin traded to the Rangers for Chan Ho Park.

As a Padres fan, I'm seriously irritated by this.

Chan Ho Park.

Goddammit.
Shit, I just saw this. Park is better than Ponson, right? RIGHT?

[Buccaneer]

I don't think the trade would've gone down if Eaton was not hurt. Losing a good SP messes up one's mind.

[k0ruptr]

chisox are rumored to have offered crede,marte, and mccarthy for billy wagner

[henry296]

Bigbie was traded. To Colorado for Eric Byrnes.

[TazFTW]

Shit, I just saw this. Park is better than Ponson, right? RIGHT?
There's no 'annual Sid Ponson blows' thread.

[RPI-Fan]

i can't understand trading manny for just aubrey huff and mike cameron!! and having to give up 2 prospects (shoppach and anibel sanchez) too. I mean for that I think I'd want huff to have numbers as good as Manny's, which he definately doesn't

Well, the trade would protect in case of injury, and really improve the bench.

So you're basically downgrading from a bonafide all-star to a pretty good corner outfielder, but you save $20mil and have to give up 2 prospects in the process.

The big thing is that Huff and Cameron don't make a ton of money so the Sox could go sign a couple good relievers or a starter in the offseason.

[RPI-Fan]

I wonder if my Astros will go get anyone. I'd love to see us pick up a guy like Romero, because I'd think with Hunter's injury he would come somewhat cheap.

Just finished off our 12th win in 13 games over the Mets and moved into solo first in the wild card. Hopefully we can continue to put up good numbers on the road and get a few results and maybe even challenge the Cards. Before too long, if we keep winning, we could be within a half-dozen games of St. Louis!

~rpi-fan

[Swaggs]

Manny talks have hit a snag.

Red Sox realized that giving up two prospects + Manny for Baez and Huff was not the best idea.

[TazFTW]

I wonder if my Astros will go get anyone. I'd love to see us pick up a guy like Romero, because I'd think with Hunter's injury he would come somewhat cheap.

~rpi-fan
You think the Twins are going to pack it in with Hunter being injured? They're like 2 games back in the wild card.

[vtbub]

The Nevin-Ponson deal needs approval from Selig due to the cash nvolved.


After watching J.C. Romero tonight, I sure as hell hope that Boston doesn't trade for him.

[TazFTW]

Ha, Jayson Stark is reporting the Mets, Red Sox, and Devil Rays have agreed...







on a 12PM Saturday deadline to discuss the Manny deal.

[DaddyTorgo]

Well, the trade would protect in case of injury, and really improve the bench.

So you're basically downgrading from a bonafide all-star to a pretty good corner outfielder, but you save $20mil and have to give up 2 prospects in the process.

The big thing is that Huff and Cameron don't make a ton of money so the Sox could go sign a couple good relievers or a starter in the offseason.
you're not just downgrading from a bona-fida allstar, you're downgrading from the reigning WS MVP, who despite his nutcase antics is unquestionably one of the top (pick your #, certainly 10) hitters in all of baseball. and in my mind the financial savings from that don't seem that great. Unless you add another #1 starter, and another all-star quality bat

[SirFozzie]

The deal is dead. The Sox woke up and told the Mets, they needed more to do the deal (and they asked for a player the Mets just did NOT want to get rid of)

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah. well at least theo woke up.

[RPI-Fan]

you're not just downgrading from a bona-fida allstar, you're downgrading from the reigning WS MVP, who despite his nutcase antics is unquestionably one of the top (pick your #, certainly 10) hitters in all of baseball. and in my mind the financial savings from that don't seem that great. Unless you add another #1 starter, and another all-star quality bat

There are only about two dozen #1 starters out there right now (happy to say my team unquestionably has three of them), and another two dozen all-star bats. You're asking a little too much for Manny and his $25mil price tag.

Nevertheless, I agree for this deal to work, it would have needed to be Huff, Cameron, AND Baez at the very least.

[SirFozzie]

A source said the Red Sox felt they could not go ahead with trading Ramirez and two prime prospects -- reportedly catcher Kelly Shoppach and right-hander Anibal Sanchez -- if all they were receiving was New York's Cameron and Tampa Bay's Huff. So they went back to the Mets "for more pieces," the source reported. At that point, the Mets "squashed the whole thing" and talks broke off.

A baseball man with knowledge of the discussions said the Red Sox asked the Mets for a "key player," whom the Mets felt they couldn't trade.

[RPI-Fan]

A source said the Red Sox felt they could not go ahead with trading Ramirez and two prime prospects -- reportedly catcher Kelly Shoppach and right-hander Anibal Sanchez -- if all they were receiving was New York's Cameron and Tampa Bay's Huff. So they went back to the Mets "for more pieces," the source reported. At that point, the Mets "squashed the whole thing" and talks broke off.

A baseball man with knowledge of the discussions said the Red Sox asked the Mets for a "key player," whom the Mets felt they couldn't trade.

Wonder who it was? Reyes??? Floyd?

[korme]

The Orioles have removed Larry Bigbie from their game, with no apparent injury.
And subsequently traded him to the Rockies for Eric Byrnes.

[DaddyTorgo]

There are only about two dozen #1 starters out there right now (happy to say my team unquestionably has three of them), and another two dozen all-star bats. You're asking a little too much for Manny and his $25mil price tag.

Nevertheless, I agree for this deal to work, it would have needed to be Huff, Cameron, AND Baez at the very least.
well firstoff i wasn't clear, i was saying with the cost savings if they picked up a #1 starter and an all-star caliber bat in free agency

and second, which team is yours RPI? Don't tell me it's one of the NY teams, cuz neither of them have anything approaching 3 #1 starters

[Ryche]

With Hunter going down, the Twins right now have to decide if they are buyers or sellers. If they stand pat, they have no shot at the playoffs. Personally, I'd just as soon see them go after some younger talented guys who could help them long term like Kevin Youkilis and Chris Burke. Those two would fill a couple glaring holes in the organization for a few years, even if the Twins can't make the playoffs this year.

[Philliesfan980]

Am I missing something? I know that dumping salary is good. But trading Rameriez for Mike "no bat" Cameron and Danny B. is the worst trade in history?

[Swaggs]

well firstoff i wasn't clear, i was saying with the cost savings if they picked up a #1 starter and an all-star caliber bat in free agency

and second, which team is yours RPI? Don't tell me it's one of the NY teams, cuz neither of them have anything approaching 3 #1 starters

I assume he's talking about Houston, since he said "My Astros."

Clemens, Oswalt, and Pettitte probably are all #1s.

[RPI-Fan]

well firstoff i wasn't clear, i was saying with the cost savings if they picked up a #1 starter and an all-star caliber bat in free agency

and second, which team is yours RPI? Don't tell me it's one of the NY teams, cuz neither of them have anything approaching 3 #1 starters

'Stros is my team.

Thanks for clarifying -- I agree with what you said, then.

[JeeberD]

I assume he's talking about Houston, since he said "My Astros."

Clemens, Oswalt, and Pettitte probably are all #1s.


And Zeke Astacio and Wandy Rodriguez have looked mighty fine their past few starts... :p

[dawgfan]

Am I missing something? I know that dumping salary is good. But trading Rameriez for Mike "no bat" Cameron and Danny B. is the worst trade in history?

Not necessarily. Manny is 33, and you can't discount his contract - he's due to receive $64M over the next 3 years. Now, maybe he'll be one of those few that defy age and stay highly productive into his mid to late 30's, but at ~$20M per year he's already at the upper extreme of baseball salaries, and it's not at all certain that he'll remain arguably the top right-handed hitter in the game over the next 3 years. It's not just about who the Red Sox get back in a deal, it's also about opportunity cost - who could they add to the roster this offseason with the money they save in not having to pay Ramirez?

Still, if I were the Red Sox I'd wait until the off-season to make a deal - I think if they want to win the W.S. again, they'll need Manny's bat, and I don't think a mid-season deal will net them enough return to match Manny's contribution. Better to wait 'till the off-season when they can spend the Manny surplus.

[Easy Mac]

Heard Bigbie was traded to Boston for adam stern and kelly shopach

[TazFTW]

Apparently what broke down the Manny trade talks last night was the Mets being apprehensive to trade Lastings Milledge. They are now more open to it. They've also added Aaron Heilman (who'll go to the Sox) and the Rays have added Julio Lugo (who'll go to the Mets).

The Yankees are inquiring about Kevin Millwood and Jason Johnson.

[Vince]

Does anyone else think that the Padres are their own worst enemy when it comes to trying to win the NL West?

Also, how ridiculous is it that the Giants are only 5.5 games back? At this point, any team that makes the playoffs from the NL West completely and utterly does not deserve the spot.

[korme]

Yankees sign Alan Embree.

They just pick up any player they can.

[TazFTW]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap bgColor=#1f2f55>Manny Ramirez (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&id=5132) - OF - Red Sox (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.asp?sport=MLB&majteam=BOS)</TD><TD width=40 background=/images/dia_wt_2_trans_tr.gif bgColor=#1f2f55><SPACER type="block" width="35" height="16">
</TD><TD noWrap> [/url]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR height=1 width="100%"><TD width="100%" bgColor=#1f2f55 height=1><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="1">
</TD></TR><TR width="100%"><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>According to the New York Daily News, the Rays' insistence on receiving Hanley Ramirez, if they're not getting Lastings Milledge, is killing the Manny Ramirez deal.
Mets owner Fred Wilpon signed off today on absorbing the entire $64 million remaining on Manny Ramirez’s contract, the Daily News has learned. Under the terms of the deal, which is still near death at this point, the Red Sox would have received Mike Cameron, Aaron Heilman and Lastings Milledge from the Mets, and Aubrey Huff from the Devil Rays. The Mets and Rays would have swapped Julio Lugo and Yusmeiro Petit. Danys Baez seems to be out of the mix now. The Red Sox would have sent additional prospects to the Rays, but Hanley apparently was off-limits. Jul. 30 - 4:31 pm et
Source: [url="http://www.nydailynews.com/front/breaking_news/story/332894p-284491c.html"]New York Daily News (http://www.rotoworld.com/lm/reports/teamhome.asp?leaguenum=&showtm=xxx)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[molson]

Apparently what broke down the Manny trade talks last night was the Mets being apprehensive to trade Lastings Milledge. They are now more open to it. They've also added Aaron Heilman (who'll go to the Sox) and the Rays have added Julio Lugo (who'll go to the Mets).

The Yankees are inquiring about Kevin Millwood and Jason Johnson.

Makes sense, Hanley is probably off limits in any trade. On the other hand, Manny is not in the starting lineup for the Sox tonight (and he just had an infamous "day off" that he asked for a few days ago).

And I think the Sox really have to trade Shoppach in the next 24 hours - he's getting old enough to the point where he's barely still a "prospect", and his value probably was higher two years ago than it his now. And Varitek is locked up long term.

[jeff061]

Yeah I was going to mention Manny not being in the lineup. Wonder if that means anything.

[TazFTW]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=378 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#0c2c56>Jamie Moyer (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?leaguenum=&sport=MLB&id=3932) - S - SEA (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.asp?leaguenum=&sport=MLB&majteam=SEA)</TD><TD width=40 background=/images/dia_wt_2_trans_tr.gif bgColor=#0c2c56><SPACER width="30" type="block" height="16">
</TD><TD align=right></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR height=1><TD bgColor=#0c2c56 height=1><SPACER width="1" type="block" height="1">
</TD></TR><TR><TD>According to the Houston Chronicle, Jamie Moyer vetoed a trade that would have sent him from the Mariners to the Astros.
No word on what the Astros would have given up. Chris Burke has been mentioned in some possibilities with Houston. Moyer has a 6.79 ERA outside of Safeco this season, but he's still capable of helping a contender. Jul. 30 - 8:50 pm et
Source: Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/bb/3289354)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


The White Sox are interested in Aubrey Huff and Danny Baez.

[vtbub]

MILWAUKEE (AP) — The Seattle Mariners traded center fielder Randy Winn to the San Francisco Giants on Saturday night for backup catcher Yorvit Torrealba and minor league pitcher Jesse Foppert.

[TazFTW]

Boston gets Jose Cruz Jr. from the Diamondbacks for 2 minor leaguers.

The Manny trade is now up to the Mets and Sox as Tampa has dropped out to focus on dealing Huff and Baez to the White Sox.

[kingfc22]

MILWAUKEE (AP) — The Seattle Mariners traded center fielder Randy Winn to the San Francisco Giants on Saturday night for backup catcher Yorvit Torrealba and minor league pitcher Jesse Foppert.
Does Sabean know that you can only play 3 OF's at a time!?!?! We now have Alou, Ellison. Tucker, Grissom, Sanchez, Winn, Bonds, Linden and Shabala. Not to mention Feliz has to play in the OF because Alfonzo takes up 3rd base. I mean WTF is going on. Stop trading away all our pitching since that is the club's biggest need. Over the last few seasons, we've lost Joe Nathan and Dustin Hermanson who would no doubt have anchored down our bullpen this season. We traded away Aardsma, Jerome Williams and now Foppert. One of those 3 is going to be decent.

[Easy Mac]

And I think the Sox really have to trade Shoppach in the next 24 hours - he's getting old enough to the point where he's barely still a "prospect", and his value probably was higher two years ago than it his now. And Varitek is locked up long term.
Already traded to the Rockies. Should hit a few homers there.

[TazFTW]

I haven't seen anything confirming that Bigbie trade.

[SirFozzie]

Already traded to the Rockies. Should hit a few homers there.

Who'd the Sox get for him? I don't see it yet.

[korme]

I was hammered last night out about 50 miles away from my home, in the country, with friends, and someone there gets a phone call and tells me Adam Dunn got traded to the Red Sox for David Wells. I was distraught. Confused. Disgusted. Ashamed.

Thank God I come home and find out it wasn't true.

[Bearcat729]

I was hammered last night out about 50 miles away from my home, in the country, with friends, and someone there gets a phone call and tells me Adam Dunn got traded to the Red Sox for David Wells. I was distraught. Confused. Disgusted. Ashamed.

Thank God I come home and find out it wasn't true.


Actually ESPN had the rumor that if the Ramirez trade went through the Sox were going to offer Anibal Sanchez and Lastings Milledge to the Reds for Dunn.


I don't think the Reds are going to make any major moves while the team is still up for sale.

[Easy Mac]

Actually ESPN had the rumor that if the Ramirez trade went through the Sox were going to offer Anibal Sanchez and Lastings Milledge to the Reds for Dunn.


I don't think the Reds are going to make any major moves while the team is still up for sale.
Why would the go for Dunn now, didn't they just get Cruz Jr?

[Bearcat729]

Why would the go for Dunn now, didn't they just get Cruz Jr?


From ESPN.com Rumor Central

Adam Dunn
Reds
Red Sox?
Dunn on the move?
Jul 30 - According to Jayson Stark, had the Manny Ramirez deal to the Mets gone through and the Red Sox had wound up with Mets outfield prospect Lastings Milledge, one baseball man who has been in touch with the Red Sox says Boston's dream scenario was to turn around and deal Milledge and pitching prospect Anibel Sanchez to the Reds for Adam Dunn.

[CraigSca]

This is shaking out to be one of the lamest trading deadlines ever.

[molson]

Who'd the Sox get for him? I don't see it yet.

This trade is dead - vetoed by Sox ownership, after both parties had agreed. It would have been Shoppach for Bigbie. Kinda strange that Sox ownership would do that, since this deal would have minimal effect on their payroll. Or it may have been Theo's excuse to pull out when he realized he needed Shoppach for something else.

[DeToxRox]

Kyle Farnsworth to the Braves for Colon and Minor

Damn the Tigers.

I loved Farnsie

[DeToxRox]

Lawton to Cubs .. Didn't hear what for yet though

[DeToxRox]

Lawton for Gerut I believe is what I heard