The N word

[korme]

I know guys that use this word casually, like it's no big deal. "That's a big n*****." Often times I feel like I'm the only one that isn't comfortable saying it, even around my friends. And I think that's a good thing, alot of times I will say that it's racist to even jokingly use that term but they will just say it's not a big deal because they are joking and it's just a small group of friends. They say that if some black guy called them a big cracker they wouldn't get offended. I just don't think that's really on the same level.

We will often get into arguments of the definition of said n word. Often they will say that n*****s are black people who are often living in the slums/ghetto and are too lazy to go out and get a job, instead just settling on taking welfare checks.

I argue that that makes them an ignorant person regardless of skin color, and that the term shouldn't apply.

I guess I am posting this because I just want to hear more points of views because it sucks always going into an argument 3-on-1.

[rkmsuf]

N**** please.

[rkmsuf]

shorty for you it's simple. never use that word in any context.

[korme]

shorty for you it's simple. never use that word in any context.
Well, yea that's kind of my idea. If it's not socially acceptable why practice it?

[rkmsuf]

Well, yea that's kind of my idea. If it's not socially acceptable why practice it?

I'm with you on this one.

[PSUColonel]

I will say that it's racist to even jokingly use that term but they will just say it's not a big deal because they are joking and it's just a small group of friends. They say that if some black guy called them a big cracker they wouldn't get offended. I just don't think that's really on the same level.



i am not seeing this..how is itnot on the same level when someone cals you a cracker or honkey? personally, I don't get offended either, but do not suggest somehow that one is different than the other. If you are going to live by these rules, te must apply accross the board, and not just for whites, because somehow you consider the word Nigger to somehow be more oensive than the word Cracker.

[WrongWay]

I thought niggers were slaves or indentured servents.

I belive all college players are niggers to their universities.

Unfortunately, some very small minded people out their can twist a meaning of a word. So, use the word in the correct context and to hell with all the small minded people out there.


They are just niggers to society's political correctness.

[korme]

Ask them if they'd be offended if some guy called them a big faggot instead.
Problem is, that example would be countered with "well not if it was one of my friends". Also one of these guys says he calls black people at his school that he is friends with n-ers and they don't care. I find this the most hard to believe. I talked to my old roomate about it and he said he would be offended but not really think anything of it if some white guy called him that. I just think one of these guys I know is going to get shot one day. Heh.

[WSUCougar]

Shorty, as you know, I am much older than you, and to someone of my generation and regional upbringing, the word will always have a powerful negative connotation that I can never get past. I remember once hearing a southern relative tell a n***** joke at the dinner table, and I almost fell out of my chair (I was around 15).

In my opinion, there's few words in the American dialect that have much more baggage than that one.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I thought niggers were slaves or indentured servents.

I belive all college players are niggers to their universities.

Unfortunately, some very small minded people out their can twist a meaning of a word. So, use the word in the correct context and to hell with all the small minded people out there.


They are just niggers to society's political correctness.
I often dread threads like this one, just because they almost never end well. Occasionally, though, I see a post like the one I quoted, and I learn something. Today, I have learned. Today is a full day.

[stevew]

I thought niggers were slaves or indentured servents.

I belive all college players are niggers to their universities.

Unfortunately, some very small minded people out their can twist a meaning of a word. So, use the word in the correct context and to hell with all the small minded people out there.


They are just niggers to society's political correctness.
Man, if you get banned, who is gonna do the 6AM FOFlive stage. Im not waking up that early. :)

[MikeVic]

I remember once hearing a southern relative tell a n***** joke at the dinner table, and I almost fell out of my chair (I was around 15).


Was it that funny of a joke? Or did you fall out due to the disbelief that the relative used the word?

[korme]

i am not seeing this..how is itnot on the same level when someone cals you a cracker or honkey? personally, I don't get offended either, but do not suggest somehow that one is different than the other. If you are going to live by these rules, te must apply accross the board, and not just for whites, because somehow you consider the word Nigger to somehow be more oensive than the word Cracker.
I just think it is man. I'd say a derogatory meaning like that that is used to generalize an entire minority is far more offensive than a meaningless term for white people. Where did the word honkey come from anyway?

Shorty, as you know, I am much older than you, and to someone of my generation and regional upbringing, the word will always have a powerful negative connotation that I can never get past. I remember once hearing a southern relative tell a n***** joke at the dinner table, and I almost fell out of my chair (I was around 15).

In my opinion, there's few words in the American dialect that have much more baggage than that one.
I don't even think there are any. I have the mouth of a sailor yet can't bring myself to use that even jokingly.

[Fonzie]

I don't even think there are any. I have the mouth of a sailor yet can't bring myself to use that even jokingly.
Same here - minus the whole sailor-mouth-thing.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I just think it is man. I'd say a derogatory meaning like that that is used to generalize an entire minority is far more offensive than a meaningless term for white people. Where did the word honkey come from anyway?
Paging the persecuted white man...

[WrongWay]

Man, if you get banned, who is gonna do the 6AM FOFlive stage. Im not waking up that early. :)
I don't understand?

Why would I get banned for using a word in my Webster Dictionary in it's correct context?

[Noop]

I am half and half on the word. Depending on how someone says it to me will determine my reaction. Now I have notice a few of you guys on this site are undercover racist. Just by the few comments those who I consider undercover racist have made in the past. One more point that word is fully loaded with history a negative one at that...

[BigJohn&TheLions]

I thought this was going to be about a new show on Showtime...

Imagine a white guy in a group of black guys and have this exact conversation:

Black Man #1: I saw the most ill shit today!
Black Man #2: What happened?
Black Man #1: This nigga came in the bar and just started tripping out! He just starts screaming that he new the MF who was screwing his wife was up in there.
Black Man #3: What'd the nigga do?
Black Man #1: The nigga grabs the first guy he sees and skakes the shit outta him. The scared ass nigga ran off screaming that it wasn't him.
White Man: What'd the nigga do next?

At this point everything would just stop. White man has some explaining to do...

I have thought for a while about Frederick Douglas, MLK, & Malcolm. If you walked into a room to meet the three men, would you say "What's up niggas!" I think the last man to call Frederick Douglas "my nigga" was a slave owner. I would have loved to have heard his reaction to the common usage of the term 140 years after the end of slavery.

[rkmsuf]

what if you are a whigger? there's a big gray area there.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I don't understand?

Why would I get banned for using a word in my Webster Dictionary in it's correct context?
Excuse me? (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=nigger)

[gottimd]

Agreed, I use many colorful 4 letter words, but I would never use that one. It makes me feel uncomfortable no matter who I say it to. I wouldn't want someone calling me a kyke. Even in a heated argument, I just stick to the usual "F you".

[cody8200]

Its a word I abstain from using. Many of my friends who I have never found to be racist will say "nigga'" but will not say the real word. For them, thats the distinction between racism and socially acceptable slang. I dont know why that is. Me-I just stay away from it in all ways.

[korme]

I am half and half on the word. Depending on how someone says it to me will determine my reaction. Now I have notice a few of you guys on this site are undercover racist. Just by the few comments those who I consider undercover racist have made in the past. One more point that word is fully loaded with history a negative one at that...
Do you use the word n***a around your friends? I don't have a problem with that, just wondering. I think it's kind of a way to turn a bad word into a positive word (using it in reference to someone being their boy, friend, etc)

[timmae]

ummm... thought this was about Naperville?!?

[Noop]

We will often get into arguments of the definition of said n word. Often they will say that n*****s are black people who are often living in the slums/ghetto and are too lazy to go out and get a job, instead just settling on taking welfare checks.
Hey we got a few of those leaving around here but they are white and live in the trailer parks.

[Noop]

Do you use the word n***a around your friends? I don't have a problem with that, just wondering. I think it's kind of a way to turn a bad word into a positive word (using it in reference to someone being their boy, friend, etc)
Funny now that I think about it I really don't use the word although people in my area use it alot. I refer to a friend as my boi or foo i rarely use nigga...

[WrongWay]

My webster "the Big Red Dictionary" I recieved when I had 8th grade graduation only defines Nigger as a slave or indentured servent. Does not say anything about being a curse word.


Edited: Looks like the PC police are out in force, changing history as we know it.

[cody8200]

Wrong way, I'd be interested to know where you are from? I mean what part of the country.

[gottimd]

Not sure if it is Politically Correct or just common sense not to use the term. But hey, its your life, you do as you want.

[BrianD]

There are lots of words in the english language. This one just seems like a good one to avoid since plenty of people are still offended by it. It isn't like there is ever a case where this is the exact word that needs to be used, so finding an alternate isn't too much of a chore.

[WrongWay]

I belive all college players are niggers to their universities.


This phrase right here is one I use when trying to express my utter hatred to the way the NCAA treats their athletes.

CU Grad. and ex Player.

[gottimd]

Couldn't you just as easily have said or state that Colleges/Universities treat their players like slaves?

[dawgfan]

I'm of a somewhat older generation than you Shorty (I'm 35) so my experiences and perceptions are influenced by that fact. I would never say "nigger" to a black man, unless I had a long friendship with that person and he understood and was OK with my using that term in a joking manner (i.e. me drawing a laugh by being the dorky white guy doing a bad impression of 'gangsta' style talk). Given all those caveats, I doubt I'll ever feel comfortable using that term around someone that's black.

Additionally, I don't think it's appropriate in most cases for me to use the term period, given the loaded history behind the word. However, me and a buddy were recently playing GTA: San Andreas, and after listening to enough of the dialog in that game and the music, I started doing the dorky white-guy speaking 'gangsta' style as a joke and dropped the n-word in there - he was shocked and said "Dude, you can't say that word!"

I started thinking about it, and while I was using the word in a joking context and am pretty race-neutral, I can't blame him for his reaction.

My position is that the word, to me, carries so much racial baggage that it's just asking for trouble for me to start tossing it around, even in a joking manner.

Now, what's interesting to me is that this attitude is probably going to change (and already is changing) due to the continued growth in popularity of hip-hop culture. More and more kids are growing up identifying with hip-hop and adopting its mores regardless of their race. I think it's not inevitable that many of the cultural divides between the races will thin dramatically due to the popularity of hip-hop.

What will also be interesting to see is how some of the rougher elements of hip-hop - the 'gangsta' stuff, thug life, that kind of thing - are viewed within the black community given the increasing bridge that hip-hop is providing to whites, asians, latinos, etc.

[Schmidty]

Couldn't you just as easily have said or state that Colleges/Universities treat their players like slaves?

Yeah, I think the way he says it is the wrong way.

Heh.

[WSUCougar]

My dictionary (Webster's New World Dictionary, 3rd College Edition, 1988) defines it simply as: [Dial. or Slang] Negro.

But it then has a long USAGE note, as follows:

originally simply a dialectal variant of Negro, the term is today acceptable only in black English; in all other contexts it is now generally regarded as virtually taboo because of the legacy of racial hatred that underlies the history of its use among whites, and its continuing use among a minority as a viciously hostile epithet

[dawgfan]

My webster "the Big Red Dictionary" I recieved when I had 8th grade graduation only defines Nigger as a slave or indentured servent. Does not say anything about being a curse word.


Edited: Looks like the PC police are out in force, changing history as we know it.

Words and their meanings change over time and always have - this isn't some new side effect of the "PC police".

[cartman]

The PC camp also came down on use of the word "niggardly", which has no reference to the N word at all.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Couldn't you just as easily have said or state that Colleges/Universities treat their players like slaves?
Sure, one could say that they treat their players like slaves, but then the complaints wouldn't be as strong and there wouldn't be any crying about everyone being "so PC."

[duckman]

Now I have notice a few of you guys on this site are undercover racist.
Okay, I'm curious. Who are the undercover racists on the board?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Okay, I'm curious. Who are the undercover racists on the board?
If he exposes them, they're not undercover anymore, silly!

[Klinglerware]

The PC camp also came down on use of the word "niggardly", which has no reference to the N word at all.

Nothing to do with this conspiratorial "PC camp" people are so fond of talking about--I recall that it was one DC politician who raised a stink. That person backed off when confronted with the etymology of the word...

[QuikSand]

I don't believe there has ever been a dictionary, especially in our lifetime, which has defined this word to mean "slave" or the like. But I am not too surprised by this exchange -- I don't think there is anyone on this forum more aptly named than WrongWay.

As for the original question, Shorty -- fight the good fight. You are firmly in the right, keep it that way.

[duckman]

If he exposes them, they're not undercover anymore, silly!
:D

[WSUCougar]

I find it amusing (in a sad way) when people so casually throw around the term "treated like slaves."

[WrongWay]

Sure, one could say that they treat their players like slaves, but then the complaints wouldn't be as strong and there wouldn't be any crying about everyone being "so PC."
The term Slave does not fit, because Slaves do not get to pick where they go to. The indentured Servent line is more appropiate as High School players get to choose for them selves where they go.

But, not to many people would even understand what an indentured servent is. I say nigger to express how players are treated by their Universities with reguards to the rule that a Player is not allowed to work for anyone else except the University. No part time job at McDonalds, no going home during the summer to work at the local Grocery Store. You either work for the University or you Starve to death. Once you sign with your Master University you are their property. That is what being a Nigger to a University is all about.

[WSUCougar]

But, not to many people would even understand what an indentured servent is
...and fewer still could spell it properly.

[WSUCougar]

I say nigger to express how players are treated by their Universities with reguards to the rule that a Player is not allowed to work for anyone else except the University. No part time job at McDonalds, no going home during the summer to work at the local Grocery Store. You either work for the University or you Starve to death. Once you sign with your Master University you are their property. That is what being a Nigger to a University is all about.
Don't forget the 4-year, full-ride scholarship. Minor detail.

[mrsimperless]

I have completely stopped using ALL n-words just to be safe. I went through the McDonalds drive-thru the other day and placed an order for a 12 piece N-bombs.

[ice4277]

Yeah I wish my college had put me into indentured servitude. I wouldn't have to pay this frigging loan back now.

[WrongWay]

Don't forget the 4-year, full-ride scholarship. Minor detail.
That is total B.S.

I don't believe Football players should be paid for their work. I believe an education is a good trade off for playing football. I just don't understand why the Universities or the NCAA make all their players Niggers to their schools. Why can't players have jobs off school grounds?

Why don't I hear more about this? Every year people talk about paying college athletes, but they never seem to get around to talking about letting athletes have jobs outside of the NCAA's control.

[WSUCougar]

Why can't players have jobs off school grounds?
Actually, I tend to agree with you that the NCAA (or whomever) should loosen this restriction slightly. But I think the overall reasoning is sound; there is too much opportunity for corruption and abuse of the rules.

[Klinglerware]

Why can't players have jobs off school grounds?

I guess because the NCAA can't police all the overzealous boosters who will no doubt give players cushy no-show jobs. I don't agree with the policy, but I do see where the NCAA is coming from...

[JeeberD]

This phrase right here is one I use when trying to express my utter hatred to the way the NCAA treats their athletes.

CU Grad. and ex Player.

Jeremy Bloom is on the board? :eek:

[Klinglerware]

I do think that student-athletes should get stipends, much like most Doctoral students and some other scholarship students. It shouldn't be for much more than what a PhD student would get though, since if a lowly grad student has to survive on $12-15k/year, an athlete should be able to likewise...

[Dutch]

I think students that make the pro's should give a little something to the other students that helped them make it to the pro's.

[WrongWay]

I do think that student-athletes should get stipends, much like most Doctoral students and some other scholarship students. It shouldn't be for much more than what a PhD student would get though, since if a lowly grad student has to survive on $12-15k/year, an athlete should be able to likewise...
Are you saying that Doctoral students can not have part time jobs off campuss? Loaded question, as I know many Doctoral student that have to have part-time jobs to support their families. Why can't student athletes have off campus jobs that actually pay them real money?

[TheOhioStateUniversity]

I use the N word with my friends of the same race and the whole situation is sort of hard toexplain. Its sort of like many black people have flipped it and made it a term of endearment, although it may be a bit ignorant to use the word given the history alot of us do. With that said I dont think a non black person should EVER use that word, there is just too much history behind it. I really dont even like when i hear latino rappers using the word as they often do.

[Klinglerware]

Are you saying that Doctoral students can not have part time jobs off campuss? Loaded question, as I know many Doctoral student that have to have part-time jobs to support their families.

Yes, they can get part-time jobs--especially after comprehensive exams are finished. Unfortunately, they are less likely to finish--I know a lot of PhD students who got sucked into the demands of work, and have had a hard time making progress on their dissertations.


Why can't student athletes have off campus jobs that actually pay them real money?

Again, this is a tough issue to deal with--student-athletes often come from the neediest classes of our society but the NCAA has to combat fraud at the same time.

WrongWay, you said that you were a NCAA Div-1 Athlete--with your responsibilities to both your academics and your athletics, would you really have enough time to commit to a job that will enable you to earn a significant amount of money? A lot of students have to pay their way through school, but it's harder for them to finish on time, and they are usually not further burdened by an athletic commitment...

[Antmeister]

Interesting topic and one that has been a topic of discussion around people I know from time to time.

First of all, my perspective is from a 34 black male whose parents were born and raised in Birmingham Alabama. I never thought there would ever be a day when the word would become acceptable regardless of how it is spelled or said. I mean it is strange to me since it was only my parent's generation in which the Civil Rights movement took place. Not something that occured over centuries ago.

I too have grew up in the hip hop generation and it wasn't really until gangsta rap was around that the word somehow became acceptable. Throughout high school, back in 85 - 89, I would recall people all of the sudden using the word. Some would do so with discomfort, while others would do so freely.

With that said, it is a word that has become part of the American vocabulary and I place it up there with a number of other deragatory words that I choose not to use. While it bothers me that people use it, there are also a number of deragatory words that people use that I have no control over.

And as a previous poster said, it is often used as a term of endearment. However, I have seen other people use it as a excuse to exhibit their hatred by using it sarcastically and that even pisses me off more. While times have changed long after the 50's and 60's, there have also been a number of children who have been raised and taught from that generation to hate. So there are still some people who remained true to that path.

[Easy Mac]

While times have changed long after the 50's and 60's, there have also been a number of children who have been raised and taught from that generation to hate. So there are still some people who remained true to that path.
While I understand what you're saying, I take offense to what's being implied in your statement. There are just as many blacks who have been/are being raised in a culture that promotes the hatred of whites and other ethnic groups. Hate, especially along racial lines, is something that is not particular race or time period, but as the Drive-By Truckers so aptly spoken worded:

Ya know racism is a worldwide problem
and it's been since the beginning of recorded history
and it ain't just white and black
But thanks to George Wallace,
it's always a little more convenient to play it with a Southern accent.

[Antmeister]

While I understand what you're saying, I take offense to what's being implied in your statement. There are just as many blacks who have been/are being raised in a culture that promotes the hatred of whites and other ethnic groups. Hate, especially along racial lines, is something that is not particular race or time period, but as the Drive-By Truckers so aptly spoken worded:

Ya know racism is a worldwide problem
and it's been since the beginning of recorded history
and it ain't just white and black
But thanks to George Wallace,
it's always a little more convenient to play it with a Southern accent.

And I have no doubt that the reverse it true as well. I know that's true. I just brought up why I don't think anyone should use the word. There are those that will use it for the wrong intent. I mean there are a number of other deragatory names that haven't been used as acceptable words in our culture at this time and I don't think the N-word should be used as well as acceptable language in our culture.

[Draft Dodger]

I don't care how you spell the word, it's a vile word. Doesn't matter matter if it's coming from the mouth of a white guy or a black guy, it's a word I'd be very happy if I never, ever, ever hear again

[Solecismic]

It's not a word for whites to use, end of story AFAIC. Though I'd caution anyone of any race to avoid giving a word too much power over their lives.

Though, based on my trusted advisor Wrong Way's advice, the original title of TCY was The Nigger Years. My beta testers expressed some mild concern that this might inhibit sales, and they persuaded me to change it to its current title.

[stevew]

When does TNY:2 come out?

[Easy Mac]

It's not a word for whites to use, end of story AFAIC. Though I'd caution anyone of any race to avoid giving a word too much power over their lives.

Though, based on my trusted advisor Wrong Way's advice, the original title of TCY was The Nigger Years. My beta testers expressed some mild concern that this might inhibit sales, and they persuaded me to change it to its current title.
The Cracker Years?

[Ben E Lou]

Though, based on my trusted advisor Wrong Way's advice, the original title of TCY was The Nigger Years. My beta testers expressed some mild concern that this might inhibit sales, and they persuaded me to change it to its current title.:D

[Easy Mac]

When does TNY:2 come out?
He's still working on the graphics... he's trying to get the spinning medalions to show up correctly on instant replays.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

The Nigger Years... classic.

This needs to be an easter egg code in the next version or something.
That would be beautiful! All that it would do is add two letters to the begining of each first name.

EX:

DaJuan
JaMarcus
MaShawn
LaCurtis

[Easy Mac]

Don't forget a random apostrophe.
DaJu'an
JaMa'rc'''us

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Don't forget a random apostrophe.
DaJu'an
JaMa'rc'''us

I'm laughing my ass off!

You know you're a nigga if your child misspells his/her name until he/she is 13. This goes double if you can't even remember how you spelled it in the first place, but it really pisses you off if someone else misspells it.

By the way, my name is really spelled Zyah'n.

[Easy Mac]

By the way, my name is really spelled Zyah'n.
Is it pronounced Greg?

[Noop]

Like I said some of you are undercover racist. It is really not hard to spot...

[Easy Mac]

Like I said some of you are undercover racist. It is really not hard to spot...
So I take it you can see the reflection when you look at the forum?

[Noop]

So I take it you can see the reflection when you look at the forum?
Nah I don't have a problem with any race of people.

[Easy Mac]

well, its not me... i hearted Andruw Jones last night.

[Noop]

well, its not me... i hearted Andruw Jones last night.
Honestly if you pay attention it is not hard to spot. In fact we had a thread about contracts for NFL players. Two posters in that thread I have noticed take indirect racial shots.

[duckman]

Like I said some of you are undercover racist. It is really not hard to spot...
Do they work for the CIA?

[vtbub]

It's a nasty word, something I would never call someone. It would be the equivalent of calling me a cripple, but yet, like the N word, it seems to be a badge of courage word in the community, i.e. "Hey, Crip!"

I would thnk that one would not use a name that if said by someone else would be insulting.

[Dutch]

Nah I don't have a problem with any race of people as long as they white.

Dude, that's just wrong.

[Easy Mac]

Do they work for the CIA? Yes, the Conniving Insidius Anglos

[PSUColonel]

It's not a word for whites to use, end of story AFAIC. Though I'd caution anyone of any race to avoid giving a word too much power over their lives.

Though, based on my trusted advisor Wrong Way's advice, the original title of TCY was The Nigger Years. My beta testers expressed some mild concern that this might inhibit sales, and they persuaded me to change it to its current title.


I agreeits something no one should use. However let me say this at the risk of being abledan undecover racist, is it Ok for Black people to call Whites cracker, or honkey.

In fact I will tell you a true story: I one time met a well known player for the Piladelphia 76ers who without valid reason(other than the fact that I'm white) called me whitey. This was after I complmented him on is hoops skills. What do you think would have happened had I fired a "OK, Whatever Nigger" back at him. You see what I'm getting at...It's the whole double standard thing. Black think it's Ok to call white people these things, but if a white person were to go down that path....oh boy lok out. Let me say for the record I feel both are wrong, but it disturbs me that there is such a double standard, and that society acts as an enabler bcause of how redicuously poltically correct is. I have often said I do not support affirmative action, and what am I called? ...a racist. It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with hiring the very best people for positions. Sorry Jim, but the University of Michigan should be ashamed itself. rather than creating, it destroys through racial "selection". If people think that's fair, then this nation truleyis beyond repair.

[Easy Mac]

I have often said I do not support affirmative action, and what am I called?
Intelligent?

Although, I think my 50% hispanic-ness helped get me into the college I wanted to go to. It was nice being part of the multicultural group.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

However let me say this at the risk of being abledan undecover racist...

It took me a few minutes to figure out this typo.

I kept thinking you were at risk of being known as Able Dan: Undercover Racist!

[Klinglerware]

I have often said I do not support affirmative action, and what am I called? ...a racist. It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with hiring the very best people for positions. Sorry Jim, but the University of Michigan should be ashamed itself. rather than creating, it destroys through racial "selection". If people think that's fair, then this nation truleyis beyond repair.

Interestingly enough, when it comes to college admissions, affirmative action has no effect on white people. Studies seem to indicate (and UC system data suggests) that Black and Hispanic applicants don't "take" admissions slots from white people, they tend to take from Asian-American applicants. The percentage rate of white admits did not go up when Berkeley went to "race-blind" admissions.

[PSUColonel]

Intelligent?

Although, I think my 50% hispanic-ness helped get me into the college I wanted to go to. It was nice being part of the multicultural group.


Maye it did, maybe not, but if it did, is that truly far to others, and yourself? I feel we'vecreated a generation of people who feel thay cancoast by, a have a sense of entitlement. I'm not saying that's you, but I am saying I feel things like affirmative action have heped fuel the kind of double standard I'm talking about.

[Dutch]

Maye it did, maybe not, but if it did, is that truly far to others, and yourself? I feel we'vecreated a generation of people who feel thay cancoast by, a have a sense of entitlement. I'm not saying that's you, but I am saying I feel things like affirmative action have heped fuel the kind of double standard I'm talking about.

See,

If you were from Pakistan, you're college educated ass could type.

[PSUColonel]

Interestingly enough, when it comes to college admissions, affirmative action has no effect on white people. Studies seem to indicate (and UC system data suggests) that Black and Hispanic applicants don't "take" admissions slots from white people, they tend to take from Asian-American applicants. The percentage rate of white admits did not go up when Berkeley went to "race-blind" admissions.

I don't care who it takes away from..bottom line it's unfair to anyone it takes away from.

[Easy Mac]

Maye it did, maybe not, but if it did, is that truly far to others, and yourself? I feel we'vecreated a generation of people who feel thay cancoast by, a have a sense of entitlement. I'm not saying that's you, but I am saying I feel things like affirmative action have heped fuel the kind of double standard I'm talking about. Well, more than likely I got in on academics alone, but its a better story to tell. But the way I see it, AA ends up being no different than legacies. It averages out. There were an amazing amount of legacies where I went to school, and basically a whole lot of money. So in the end, the small amount of "diversity" they let it really just balanced things. Now, is it useful in state schools, or places where money isn't nearly as important... thats up for debate.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

I don't care who it takes away from..bottom line it's unfair to anyone it takes away from.
It's an unfair world in which we live. We either accept the practice of affirmitive action, which can be considered unfair, or we accept an unfair society where in most cases the best person for the job is the one hired regardless of race, creed or color as long as they are white.

In a perfect society afirmitive action would not be needed. In a perfect society a war would not have needed to be fought over whether one man can own another. In a perfect society, even if this war had been fought, the oppressed would have been welcomed fully into society and given every chance to stand next to their former oppressors as equals. Their children would be born into a world where their abilities would determine how far they would go in life, not their skin.

We are closer to that ideal than ever before, but we are obviously not there yet. Hopefully in the future AA will no longer be needed. But as long as a child growing up in an affluent suburb has a better chance at a good education than a child growing up in an inner city we will have a society weighted toward the success of the white child over the black.

By the way... AA is about, and should only be about providing opportunity. Nobody wants to hand a job to someone who is not qualified. If someone can't see straight they should not be a neurosurgeon.


Also, success has a lot to do with subtle things.

Pick a doctor to perform surgery on your child:

Dr. Stephanie Johnson

Dr. Shanta'niqua "Pookie" Jackson

Dr. Johnson may be the worst doctor in the world. Dr. Jackson may be brilliant, have been top of her class and have a stack of medical honors the size of Wilt Chamberlain, but I don't think most people (even most black people) would pick her to perform surgery on their child based on the name alone.

[dawgfan]

I agreeits something no one should use. However let me say this at the risk of being abledan undecover racist, is it Ok for Black people to call Whites cracker, or honkey.

In fact I will tell you a true story: I one time met a well known player for the Piladelphia 76ers who without valid reason(other than the fact that I'm white) called me whitey. This was after I complmented him on is hoops skills. What do you think would have happened had I fired a "OK, Whatever Nigger" back at him. You see what I'm getting at...It's the whole double standard thing. Black think it's Ok to call white people these things, but if a white person were to go down that path....oh boy lok out.

Except that it's not really comparing apples to apples, so it's not really a double-standard. The history of the word and the differences in the positions of power of those who were using the word and the targets of the word is what differentiates your examples.

To clarify, it's not just the intent behind the word that matters, but the position of authority. Historically, those who used the term "nigger" weren't just uttering it with contempt and hatred (bad enough), but were also in a position of power and authority over those that were the targets of the insult, such that not only did the target have to hear the insult, they couldn't do anything about it.

If someone today calls a black man a "nigger", that person is under few restrictions to retaliate. 150 years ago, that person probably wouldn't have had much recourse to retaliate.

Compare and contrast that with a black man calling a white man "honkey" or "cracker" - first off, the term "honkey" simply doesn't carry much weight IMO as an insult, as it sounds more like outdated slang than potent insult. Secondly, there simply isn't a large history of blacks being in positions of power over whites in this country (and in most places in the world for that matter) where such usage would carry the same kind of historical weight as "nigger" does with blacks.

If people think that's fair, then this nation truleyis beyond repair.

If we're going to resort to hyperbole, then I'll counter with this - if people are unable to grasp the details and context of important subjects enough to understand key differences in them, then this nation is truly beyond repair.

[Solecismic]

I agreeits something no one should use. However let me say this at the risk of being abledan undecover racist, is it Ok for Black people to call Whites cracker, or honkey.

In fact I will tell you a true story: I one time met a well known player for the Piladelphia 76ers who without valid reason(other than the fact that I'm white) called me whitey. This was after I complmented him on is hoops skills. What do you think would have happened had I fired a "OK, Whatever Nigger" back at him. You see what I'm getting at...It's the whole double standard thing. Black think it's Ok to call white people these things, but if a white person were to go down that path....oh boy lok out. Let me say for the record I feel both are wrong, but it disturbs me that there is such a double standard, and that society acts as an enabler bcause of how redicuously poltically correct is. I have often said I do not support affirmative action, and what am I called? ...a racist. It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with hiring the very best people for positions. Sorry Jim, but the University of Michigan should be ashamed itself. rather than creating, it destroys through racial "selection". If people think that's fair, then this nation truleyis beyond repair.


Yes, there is a double standard of sorts. Nothing can be done about it. Just let it go. That word has too much power. It was used to "keep people in their place" for too long.

Someday I hope there's enough relative harmony that the word loses its power, because when a black person allows someone to incite such hatred with just one word, he's the one who ultimately loses.

As for Michigan. Yes, that policy is racist. I don't support it. That's one thing about growing up in Ann Arbor. You get used to the limousine liberal viewpoint being the mainstream.

[Dutch]

I think the biggest mistake we, as a society, have made was the mantra of "never forget the past" when it comes to racism.

Here's an idea. Why don't we just forget the past and move on. It's kind of hard to be racist in today's world if we can forget why we hated each other in the first place. (Of course, easier said than implemented.)

Just a suggestion.

[PSUColonel]

Yes, there is a double standard of sorts. Nothing can be done about it. Just let it go. That word has too much power. It was used to "keep people in their place" for too long.

Someday I hope there's enough relative harmony that the word loses its power, because when a black person allows someone to incite such hatred with just one word, he's the one who ultimately loses.

As for Michigan. Yes, that policy is racist. I don't support it. That's one thing about growing up in Ann Arbor. You get used to the limousine liberal viewpoint being the mainstream.


That is what my friend tells me who went to UM undergad. I've been on 4 or 5 occasions now, and am one again visiting Ann Arbor this fall. If you didn't notice, I'm usualy there when PSU is in town. My firend and I go to the game every year..regardless of where it's played. I have PSU season tickets and it's an easy 3 hour jaunt from Philly to Happy Valley, but the ride to UM is brutal..13 hours....but we still always have a blast.

[Klinglerware]

Well, more than likely I got in on academics alone, but its a better story to tell. But the way I see it, AA ends up being no different than legacies. It averages out. There were an amazing amount of legacies where I went to school, and basically a whole lot of money. So in the end, the small amount of "diversity" they let it really just balanced things. Now, is it useful in state schools, or places where money isn't nearly as important... thats up for debate.

That is a great point about legacies and AA admits--at most elite schools, they are admitted in equal numbers. Recruited athletes have an even bigger edge in admissions: PSUColonel, from your handle, it sounds like you have a bit of a rooting interest in State Penn. You do realize that, like even all Ivy League schools, the student-athletes at the university you support tend to have lower academic profiles than the student body at-large, don't you? Would you rather that admissions be tightened for football players even if it would mean PSU will be even less competitive with other Big 10 schools?

Admissions are not a cut-and-dry thing, and it is ridiculous to think that candidates can be ranked sequentially, especially if there can be 20,000 of them, with 15,000 having more or less the same credentials. The truth is, while pretty much all students at the top schools are qualified to do the work academically, very few students are admitted solely based on academics.

I personally think that diversity is a very good thing, so long as everybody admitted is qualified to do the work. The world is a very diverse place, and I think that it is an important part of your education to be exposed to people from other backgrounds (including people more priveleged than you). AA, legacy admits, preferential admissions for athletes, etc., don't bother me one bit...

[CamEdwards]

I've got two wonderful biracial children who've been called "oreos" by their black classmates. I'm fairly certain they've never been called "n*****" by any of their white classmates.

I felt very sad when they were called "oreo". I would not hestitate to punch anyone who called my child a "n*****". I'm not sure why I feel differently about those words, since the intent behind them is the same.

[Joe Canadian]

In the uber racial diverse place that Newfoundland is (it's liek 99.999% Irish/Bristish decent) the two black people I hang around with from high school have very different opinions on the word... What I find interesting is the use of the word in song lyrics.

Personally, and one of the guys agrees with me the other disagrees, if I'm seeing the lyrics to a rap song and that word comes up... anyone should be able to sing that lyric. The other guy gets really annoyed when he hears people he doesn't know sing the lyrics, and I'm not really sure why... it's not like theres any meaning behind the person saying it.

Other than that, it annoys the hell out of me when other white people use the word jokingy, to me it smacks of ignorance. I think it is equally as ignorant when black people call white people cracker.

Thoughts?

PS - I'm white.

[Schmidty]

It's a nasty word, something I would never call someone. It would be the equivalent of calling me a cripple, but yet, like the N word, it seems to be a badge of courage word in the community, i.e. "Hey, Crip!"

I would thnk that one would not use a name that if said by someone else would be insulting.

Has anyone ever said that to you Ron? If so, give me their names and I'll do some ass-beating.

You are seriously one the best people I have ever met,

[vtbub]

Has anyone ever said that to you Ron? If so, give me their names and I'll do some ass-beating.

You are seriously one the best people I have ever met,

Not in many many years. :D

[Airhog]

I just think it is man. I'd say a derogatory meaning like that that is used to generalize an entire minority is far more offensive than a meaningless term for white people. Where did the word honkey come from anyway?


This came from the Straight Dope. I would be more inclined to believe the last paragraph rather than the first.

I like a man who's got his priorities straight. Honky comes from bohunk and hunky, derogatory terms for Bohemian, Hungarian, and Polish immigrants that came into use around the turn of the century. According to Robert Hendrickson, author of the Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins, black workers in Chicago meat-packing plants picked up the term from white workers and began applying it indiscriminately to all Caucasians. Probably thought they all looked alike.

Your source for the origin of honky only gave you half the story. Another probable etymon for honky, cited by David Dalby in his "African Element in American English" (to be found in my Rappin' and Stylin' Out: Communication in Urban Black America) is the Wolof term honq, "red, pink," a term frequently used in to describe white men in African languages. --Tom Kochman, professor of communication, University of Illinois at Chicago

[korme]

In the uber racial diverse place that Newfoundland is (it's liek 99.999% Irish/Bristish decent) the two black people I hang around with from high school have very different opinions on the word... What I find interesting is the use of the word in song lyrics.

Personally, and one of the guys agrees with me the other disagrees, if I'm seeing the lyrics to a rap song and that word comes up... anyone should be able to sing that lyric. The other guy gets really annoyed when he hears people he doesn't know sing the lyrics, and I'm not really sure why... it's not like theres any meaning behind the person saying it.

Other than that, it annoys the hell out of me when other white people use the word jokingy, to me it smacks of ignorance. I think it is equally as ignorant when black people call white people cracker.

Thoughts?

PS - I'm white.
Well I agree with you on the singing part. I will say it if it is in a hip hop song... I mean..... it's part of the song, it's just like singing a ficticious word that is in a song to me..

[PSUColonel]

I really hate to bring this thread up again, but some of you should really see this:

This is what I mean by "the double standard"


hxxp://p076.ezboard.com/fpoliticalpalacefrm1

[timmae]

It took me a few minutes to figure out this typo.

I kept thinking you were at risk of being known as Able Dan: Undercover Racist!

Brilliant.. your efforts don't go unnoticed or unappreciated. Still laughing at this one!!

[Antmeister]

I really hate to bring this thread up again, but some of you should really see this:

This is what I mean by "the double standard"


hxxp://p076.ezboard.com/fpoliticalpalacefrm1

Yes this is a double standard practiced by this site. Most of us on this board wouldn't even join that site. That's like saying that HellAtlantic's site is a representation of the average text sim player. :D

[Desnudo]

The term Slave does not fit, because Slaves do not get to pick where they go to. The indentured Servent line is more appropiate as High School players get to choose for them selves where they go.

But, not to many people would even understand what an indentured servent is. I say nigger to express how players are treated by their Universities with reguards to the rule that a Player is not allowed to work for anyone else except the University. No part time job at McDonalds, no going home during the summer to work at the local Grocery Store. You either work for the University or you Starve to death. Once you sign with your Master University you are their property. That is what being a Nigger to a University is all about.

I'm not sure why you even bothered to make this argument, but your logic is flawed. The definition you chose to apply is outdated, and it was outdated when you got your 8th grade dictionary.

[Passacaglia]

So... is it okay to say 'schwarza'?

[Klinglerware]

So... is it okay to say 'schwarza'?

Well, since it seems to be the preferred term used by the JDL, it probably can't be all good...

[Tom E]

Blacks have made so much blood money using the word "Nigga"...It's gross

[Subby]

Blacks have made so much blood money using the word "Nigga"...It's grossYou're gross.

[TheOhioStateUniversity]

How have we made money using that word, how has that word helped blacks make any money?

[Noop]

Its tough to fight that hate all inside you huh Tom E?