Fathers' Rights (Big Update!)

[duckman]

When my ex and I divorced in 1998, I basically got hosed in the proceedings. I was living in Florida due to my Air Force commitment, so I wasn't able to see our son Matt on a regular basis. I was to receive "reasonable visitation" during the times I was on leave and would receive standard visitation once I was able to return to Oklahoma.

Every Chirstmas holiday and his birthday, I would come to Oklahoma to see him. I would take 15 days of leave to see him and would only get four days of actual visitation. Her excuse was that it would be "harmful" for Matt to spend time with his father. How can a child spending time with his dad be harmful when the dad has never negelctful or abusive? :rolleyes:

In July 2001, I was able transferred to Oklahoma. Upon returning, I informed my ex that I was living in the state again and wanted to exercise the visitation schedule. She was defiant at first citing "harm" could come to Matt by spending time away from her. I, of course, pressed the issue and was able to see him every other weekend.

However, she would arbitrarily deny visitation if it would convienced her to do so. She would not let me have Matt for the two weeks in the summer citing "harm" if he was away from her family until I was able to get visitation this summer. She would even deny time to see him during the holidays. If I tried to get her to follow the decree, she would threaten to sue for more child support and have my parental rights revoked.

It kept getting uglier and uglier. Matt was suddenly getting more distant when he would stay with me. He told me that his grandfather was his dad which disturbed me. He began to have problems defecating on himself. Something was not right and I knew that me ex's and mine personal problems were becoming known to him. It was also the fact she was married again and was having marital problems. He was bothered by the constant moving from place to place (12 times in the past seven years) when the ex became dissatisfied with her situation.

Eventually, he snapped out of that and became very affectionate towards me. We became pretty good pals. I taught how to throw a spiral on a football, to swing a bat, and to get to the next level on a video game he was playing. We would make the most of the time we had together. It was the relatioship that I always wanted with Matt.

I then I hired a good family law attorney. She's a former judge and has a strong disliking towards moms who use their kids as weapons against their ex-spouse.

I began keeping a journal of all her misgivings like refusing to bring Matt to see me at the hospital when I had an infection spreading up my leg or when she refuse to let me see Matt after I lost my insurance job because I couldn't pay the child support. I recorded every phone conversation with her and catching my ex saying how she was above the law because she was his mother.

In late May of this year, my ex-wife informed me that she was getting married to her third husband (she's only 27) and was moving Matthew to Topeka, KS. She told there was nothing to stop her, and that I would just have come to Wichita to pick him up one weekend per month. Naturally, I was upset by this announcement because I knew that my role was going to be further diminished from what it was now.

I contacted my lawyer to inform her of the move. She set up an appoinment to talk. I learned that my ex had not given me proper written 60-day notice of her move and marriage was not a valid reason for a move. She doesn't have a job to support Matthew, so that's not in her favor either. We immediately filed a writ of habeas corpus to return Matt to Oklahoma and to award me temporary custody until we actually go to trial.

We are supposed to be in court on Thursday for the hearing , but my ex's attorney is asking for a continuance probably so she can get him into school up in Topeka before the hearing. I wanting to get the temporary hearing done, so I can get him into school here in Oklahoma City on time.

Now that I gotten that all out of the way. There seems to be conception that fathers are not needed in the raising of children because of the welfare system. My ex told me that if she could get away with it she would not allow me and my "blue collar" family to ever see my son. However, she would require me to pay for his care (which I don't mind in slightest bit). Do you think fathers should receive equal treatment and visitation with children when the parents divorce?

Edit---corrected grammatical errors.

[SackAttack]

Way I see it, if the mother is consistently denying the father his parental rights, the mother should be entitled to exactly bupkis in the way of support and compensation - doesn't matter whether you mind or not, IMO.

The ONLY exception should be if granting the father his parental rights would constitute a danger to the child.

If the disaffected father - or let's be fair, the mother - is not behaving irrationally and/or does not constitute a physical threat to the well-being of either child or parent, then parental rights should not be denied.

Just my two cents.

[PilotMan]

Wow, that is really unfortunate. I can't ever get divorced, because I couldn't afford to with three kids. But I have always been of the opinion that if it ever came to that I would hire the best attorney I could find and fight like there was no tomorrow.

[illinifan999]

I agree with Sack. It sounds like you haven't really done anything to deserve the treatment your ex has been giving you except for the fact you guys got a divorce, but you deserve to be apart of your sons life, especially since you haven't been abusive, neglective, etc. Good luck, hope it works out for you in the end.

[duckman]

Wow, that is really unfortunate. I can't ever get divorced, because I couldn't afford to with three kids. But I have always been of the opinion that if it ever came to that I would hire the best attorney I could find and fight like there was no tomorrow.
My first attorney was a schumck. I was a poor E-1 at the time, so I had to go with a cheap lawyer. They ain't kidding when they say "you get what you pay for". My ex even got two years of temporary alimony that was supposed to help her while going through school. She blew the money and didn't even finish her degree while I was starved during that period.

[Logan]

Good luck with everything.

[Eaglesfan27]

I rarely do Custody Evaluations to aid in determining which parent would take the best care of a child, but the law down here is fairly clear, and neither parent can just move a child to another state without valid notice, and clear and convincing benefit to moving the child.


As far as father's rights, I think fathers generally get screwed in the system, and I think that your ex has acted outrageously. I hope your lawyer can do a good job of fighting all of this.

Edit: To Answer your question at the end, of course, I think Father's should get equal rights to see their children (barring abuse, alcoholism, drug abuse, etc.)

[NoMyths]

Good luck, man. I hope everything turns out for the best.

[JeeberD]

Best of luck to you, duckie... :)

[duckman]

Thanks for the well wishes, guys. I'm just looking forward to getting all this drama to stop.

[clintl]

Good luck, duckman.

[Galaxy]

Good luck with everything. Sounds like your just a caring father who is on bad terms with your ex.

[gstelmack]

Man, I can't imagine being separated from my kids for much time at all (I pretty much even refuse to travel for work at this point in their lives), so I feel for you and hope the new lawyer gets you some fairness.

[Galaxy]

Dola...

Are you still in the Air Force?

[duckman]

Dola...

Are you still in the Air Force?
No, I've been out since Janurary of last year (medical discharge).

[Joe]

how hot is the ex?

[duckman]

Dola

I forgot to mention that her attorney sent my attorney a change of visitation schedule. My ex told her attorney that we agreed to a schedule of one weekend a month, two weeks in the summer, and the holidays were at her discretion. I would never make any kind of agreement where I would get less time with Matt!

[duckman]

how hot is the ex?
She's turn off the light and blindfold yourself hot.

[Chubby]

duckman - sounds like a shitty ex. stories like that piss me off. a parent (mom or dad) should only be shut out of the kids life if they are a danger to them (assuming they want to be a part of it like it sounds you do)

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Father's rights go something like this:

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can, and will be used against you.

You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, tough shit. The bitch will have one.

You have the right to see the child, (If she allows you to.) If she does not allow you to, you have the right to spend more money and take her to court where she can lie her ass off and get you denied visitation altogether.

You have the right to pay child support. If you do not wish to pay more than is necessary for the care and well-being of your child you can spend time in jail, but still owe the money.

You have the right to challenge for custody. You will not win*, but you have the right to attempt this futile action.

*If by some strange act you should receive custody, (ie: she can't stay sober long enough to show up for court) you will not receive nearly the amount that you should in support. You will also not receive any of this amount from her. If she should at some future point file for custody she will win, and she will receive an exhorbant amount from you in support, which she will spend on supporting her alcoholic boyfriend who abuses your children.

[oliegirl]

Father's rights go something like this:

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can, and will be used against you.

You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, tough shit. The bitch will have one.

You have the right to see the child, (If she allows you to.) If she does not allow you to, you have the right to spend more money and take her to court where she can lie her ass off and get you denied visitation altogether.

You have the right to pay child support. If you do not wish to pay more than is necessary for the care and well-being of your child you can spend time in jail, but still owe the money.

You have the right to challenge for custody. You will not win*, but you have the right to attempt this futile action.

*If by some strange act you should receive custody, (ie: she can't stay sober long enough to show up for court) you will not receive nearly the amount that you should in support. You will also not receive any of this amount from her. If she should at some future point file for custody she will win, and she will receive an exhorbant amount from you in support, which she will spend on supporting her alcoholic boyfriend who abuses your children.


You don't have any anger regarding this issue, do you?

[duckman]

Father's rights go something like this:

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can, and will be used against you.

You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, tough shit. The bitch will have one.

You have the right to see the child, (If she allows you to.) If she does not allow you to, you have the right to spend more money and take her to court where she can lie her ass off and get you denied visitation altogether.

You have the right to pay child support. If you do not wish to pay more than is necessary for the care and well-being of your child you can spend time in jail, but still owe the money.

You have the right to challenge for custody. You will not win*, but you have the right to attempt this futile action.

*If by some strange act you should receive custody, (ie: she can't stay sober long enough to show up for court) you will not receive nearly the amount that you should in support. You will also not receive any of this amount from her. If she should at some future point file for custody she will win, and she will receive an exhorbant amount from you in support, which she will spend on supporting her alcoholic boyfriend who abuses your children.
Maybe I will lose at the custody hearing, but I'm not going to sit here and allow her to take my son from me. I want him to know that I do love him and want to spend time with him. Worst case scenario will be that I'll get the updated visitation schedule that will give me five weeks in the summer instead of two.

Besides, the percentage of fathers winning custody of their children as risen substantially since the 1980's. A good example of that is my brother Scott won custody of his little girl because her mother pulled similar stuff. He simply wrote everything down just like I have been doing. The forty tapes of phone conversations I've had with her will not do her any good either.

[Rizon]

My best friend was paying child support to his wife after they seperated. Weird thing was, they spent more time together than apart, yet, he still had to pay child support. Basically all that was supported was her critty habit. Not sure if he was legally required to pay the support, or they worked out some deal. Great deal for her though ... it was like they were married and together, but she was getting paid for it.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Maybe I will lose at the custody hearing, but I'm not going to sit here and allow her to take my son from me. I want him to know that I do love him and want to spend time with him. Worst case scenario will be that I'll get the updated visitation schedule that will give me five weeks in the summer instead of two.

Besides, the percentage of fathers winning custody of their children as risen substantially since the 1980's. A good example of that is my brother Scott won custody of his little girl because her mother pulled similar stuff. He simply wrote everything down just like I have been doing. The forty tapes of phone conversations I've had with her will not do her any good either.
I'm not trying to deter you. Go for it!

I'm just bitter from my own experience and those of friends, all of which contributed to the list...

[duckman]

I'm not trying to deter you. Go for it!

I'm just bitter from my own experience and those of friends, all of which contributed to the list...
I can understand your bitterness. You can be the best parent possible, but it still might not be enough unless she's a whacko, whore, or drug abuser. I never thought I was capable of ever hating someone until she began using our son like a pawn in some sick game. If she passed away tomorrow, I wouldn't even shed a tear.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Women like this disgust me. I hope you kick her butt in court Duckman. Sounds like your attorney will really put the screws to her. It would be poetic justice for you to gain physical custody and make HER pay child support. :)

[Schmidty]

There's two sides to every story. I wish you luck.

I and my mother were screwed over by my bio-dad, and my wife has been absolutey kicked in the ass by my daughter's bio-dad. I am very distrustful of fathers (other than me of course :) ), but I can see how "the system" can be discrimanatory toward men, but I also think there's a historical reason for that. Just the facts. A mother's love is different from a father's.

[duckman]

Women like this disgust me. I hope you kick her butt in court Duckman. Sounds like your attorney will really put the screws to her. It would be poetic justice for you to gain physical custody and make HER pay child support. :)
Nice signature, Farrah. Glad I'm not the only Reagan fan on here. ;)

Anita, my attorney, is cut throat. I had to put down some major dough to have her as my counsel. When I told Anita my story, she was immediately pissed and told me to start recording our phone conversations along with keeping a journal. She has been a much more thorough about what I needed to do to win a case than my previous attorney. I think her experience as a family court judge is a real asset. Also, she's asking for everything under the sun including a restraining order to keep her from harrassing me if I get custody of Matt and repayment of the temporary alimony she received for school expenses.

[duckman]

There's two sides to every story. I wish you luck.
It's fine that you don't believe me, but I rather you not wish me luck if don't take my story at face value. Do you think that a mom has the right to erode away a father's right to visitation despite the fact there has been no neglect or abuse?

A mother's love is different from a father's.
If the ex love Matt so much, she wouldn't jump into a third marriage in seven years to a stranger while tearing him away from the only people he's ever known. On top of that, she's trying to reduce our time together by over 50%. I'm sorry, but I don't buy that garbage.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Nice signature, Farrah. Glad I'm not the only Reagan fan on here. ;)

Anita, my attorney, is cut throat. I had to put down some major dough to have her as my counsel. When I told Anita my story, she was immediately pissed and told me to start recording our phone conversations along with keeping a journal. She has been a much more thorough about what I needed to do to win a case than my previous attorney. I think her experience as a family court judge is a real asset. Also, she's asking for everything under the sun including a restraining order to keep her from harrassing me if I get custody of Matt and repayment of the temporary alimony she received for school expenses.
I like your attorney :). Sounds like someone I would select if I ever needed one. Hopefully her experience as a former family court judge will help her sniff out all the dirty tricks your wife's attorney is likely to pull. If you're married, they'll probably start going after your wife soon - trying to prove she's psycho or some such nonsense.

Is there any way you can petition the court for your ex-wife to cover your legal expenses? Wouldn't that just piss her off? Piss her off, and she'll do something stupid to guarantee you a court victory. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[duckman]

If you're married, they'll probably start going after your wife soon - trying to prove she's psycho or some such nonsense.
I'm not married. To be honest, I've came close once, but I don't want to go through another heated divorce. I guess you can say I'm gun shy. :D

Is there any way you can petition the court for your ex-wife to cover your legal expenses? Wouldn't that just piss her off? Piss her off, and she'll do something stupid to guarantee you a court victory. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
Anita is asking for $1000 for the temporary order hearing and is asking for all legal expenses to be reimbursed in the actual custody trial. I'll dance like little schoolgirl if she has to pay for my legal expenses. Plus, I hope she goes off on me while I'm recording her on the phone, or refuses to return Matt after the hearing. I won't mind sicking the FBI on her ass. :D

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

I have some friends at the IRS....

[Schmidty]

It's fine that you don't believe me, but I rather you not wish me luck if don't take my story at face value.

You think I don't believe you because I realize that there are two sides to every story? Com one man. I'm not your enemy, and I REALLY DO wish you luck. And your son.

[duckman]

I have some friends at the IRS....
:D

[duckman]

You think I don't believe you because I realize that there are two sides to every story? Com one man. I'm not your enemy, and I REALLY DO wish you luck. And your son.When someone throws out a out of nowhere "there's two sides to every story" drivel, that means someone doesn't believe that person's side of the story. So what is her justification for violating the law? I'm some kind of terrible person because I want to be the dad that I never had? Because I think that spending time with my son would be beneficial to him?

Look, I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, bring strange women home, or possess pornography of any kind. I make my child support payments on time including extra for school clothes, etc., and I make sure that I spend as much quality time with Matt with what little time I have him. I have never been abusive or neglectful towards Matt during any part of his life. I have never committed a felony. I'm currently working towards my English Education degree, I am gainfully employed with the Veterans Services at the unemployment office, and I do volunteer work at the Omniplex science museum.

So what is her justification for eroding my rights to visitation?

[Schmidty]

When someone throws out a out of nowhere "there's two sides to every story" drivel, that means someone doesn't believe that person's side of the story. So what is her justification for violating the law? I'm some kind of terrible person because I want to be the dad that I never had? Because I think that spending time with my son is terrible?

Look, I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, bring strange women home, or possess pornography of any kind. I make my child support payments on time including extra for school clothes, etc., and I make sure that I spend as much quality time with Matt with what little time I have him. I have never been abusive or neglectful towards Matt during any part of his life. I have committed a felony. I'm currently working towards my English Education degree, I am gainfully employed with the Veterans Services at the unemployment office, and I do volunteer work at the Omniplex science museum.

So what is her justification for eroding my rights to visitation?

Look, you are obviously angry about this and I believe you and have no idea what you're going through.

Trust me when I say that I wish you the absolute best, as that will do nothing but help your child. I'm praying for you, and although I think means little to many (maybe you too), you are on my list.

[duckman]

Look, you are obviously angry about this and I believe you and have no idea what you're going through.

Trust me when I say that I wish you the absolute best, as that will do nothing but help your child. I'm praying for you, and although I think means little to many (maybe you too), you are on my list.
Now, that I had time to cool down.....

I appreciate the well wishes. I also appreciate the prayers. They mean a lot to me as a Christian. I obviously have a lot to work to do as far as anger and hatred towards my ex. I'm tired of feeling this way. I just want peace.

I'm sorry that I snapped at you and BigJohn. I like to think of myself as a logical person, but I have been very emotional since waking from my surgery last month.

To me, she might as well move Matt to China because it feels like he's that far away. It was difficult to be without him in Florida and it nearly cost my Air Force career. I'm tired of being an afterthought in his life. I naturally want to be more.

[Noop]

I have a question if you have a blood test and find out the child isn't yours could the judge still force you to pay child support?

[MrBug708]

Worried? ;)

[duckman]

I have a question if you have a blood test and find out the child isn't yours could the judge still force you to pay child support?
I never heard of any such ruling, but it could be a possibility depending how a certain state's law is written. I know that Oklahoma law states that only the biological father is responsible for the care of the child.

There has never been any doubts that Matt is my son. ;)

[jeff061]

Good luck man.

I knew of my parents major personal problems post divorce at an early age(probably about 7 or 8), but my mother never kept me from seeing my father. Which is what was most important and the way it should be. Totally bogus what you are going through, I hope for the best.

[duckman]

Good luck man.

I knew of my parents major personal problems post divorce at an early age(probably about 7 or 8), but my mother never kept me from seeing my father. Which is what was most important and the way it should be. Totally bogus what you are going through, I hope for the best.
Thanks.

When my parents divorced, I was always able to see my dad despite not receiving any support from him until he was on disability. My mom felt it was important for us to see dad despite all the turmoil. I believe it was a factor with my direction as a person.

[AlexB]

This sounds awful, and I hope that things get resolved in a way that you are happy, your son is happy and his mother begins to see things in your sons best interests.

This is a problem over here too, and the cause has been heavily publicised over recent months by a group called Fathers for Justice. They dress up as superheros (Batman, Captain America, Spiderman, Superman, etc) and stage sit in protests in high profile places - Buckingham Palace being the highest profile one.

The chap at the head of this group had a very dodgy history, but claims to have turned his life around, and while he agrees that he should not have had contact with his son years ago when the ruling was made, he has found that there is no recourse for him now.

I like the imagery they are creating, dads as heroes, public, high profile peaceful actions, and they are not asking for their own cases to be reheard, but looking at the bigger picture and trying to get legislation/procedure changed so that fathers get equal consideration to mothers...

[Miller Time]

Best of luck to you. Your kid is lucky to have a father who cares so much!

[duckman]

This sounds awful, and I hope that things get resolved in a way that you are happy, your son is happy and his mother begins to see things in your sons best interests.

This is a problem over here too, and the cause has been heavily publicised over recent months by a group called Fathers for Justice. They dress up as superheros (Batman, Captain America, Spiderman, Superman, etc) and stage sit in protests in high profile places - Buckingham Palace being the highest profile one.

The chap at the head of this group had a very dodgy history, but claims to have turned his life around, and while he agrees that he should not have had contact with his son years ago when the ruling was made, he has found that there is no recourse for him now.

I like the imagery they are creating, dads as heroes, public, high profile peaceful actions, and they are not asking for their own cases to be reheard, but looking at the bigger picture and trying to get legislation/procedure changed so that fathers get equal consideration to mothers...
From what I have read on the internet, the British system is very much slanted in favor of the mother. I've read there has been cases of an abusive and neglectful mother still keeping custody of her children with the judge throwing up his hands like he couldn't do anything about it. Is is this true?

[duckman]

Looks like some encouraging signs over in Australia:

More fathers winning child custody cases
By Ian Munro
Law and Justice Editor
March 10 2003

Fathers are increasingly being awarded custody of their children in Family Court cases, new figures released by the court show.
Despite persistent criticism that the court is anti-male, almost 20 per cent of child-residence decisions are being settled in the father's favour - twice the rate of earlier decades.

Court figures show that as recently as the mid-1990s, only 15 per cent of residence applications were decided in favour of the father.

University of Sydney law professor and family law specialist Patrick Parkinson said the latest figures showed a cultural shift.

"Go back another 10 years, to the 1980s, and 90 per cent of all orders were in favour of mothers," Professor Parkinson said.


"You have here a shift of the order of 10 per cent (of orders) over 20 years. That's big.

"Everything I am seeing now is that there is a massive cultural shift in the interest of fathers in post-separation parenting, and you see it in (non-resident fathers') dissatisfaction in contact arrangements."

The most recently available figures, for 2000-01, show residence or custody orders favouring fathers in 19.6 per cent of cases, and have stabilised around this level for the past three years. Decisions favouring fathers peaked at 19.9 per cent in 1999-2000.

There has also been a small net increase in so-called "split residence" rulings - up from 3 per cent in 1994-95 to 4.2 per cent in 2000-01.

In such cases, each parent "wins" to the extent that each has at least one of their children living with them full-time.

Decisions favouring mothers fell from 73.7 per cent in 1994-95 to 69.6 per cent in 2000-01, with a corresponding fall in the proportion of joint residence orders, where the outcome is for each child to spend some time living with each parent.

The figures, prepared by the Family Court's performance analysis unit, cover more than 13,000 orders a year made by consent and as a result of contested hearings.

Researcher at La Trobe University Lawrie Moloney said fathers had won up to 40 per cent of cases where they fought for custody of their children.

"But they are a very special group of men who, for whatever reason, run the gauntlet and make the application," Mr Moloney said.

He said most men were discouraged by their lawyers from contesting residence decisions.

Professor Parkinson said his research showed that while most mothers were satisfied with contact arrangements, three-quarters of non-resident fathers wanted more contact with their children.

"As marriages are more and more unstable, so the parent-child relationship is becoming the one lasting relationship," he said. "We are investing in our children in ways we did not before, and as fertility rates have declined, children have become more precious.

"We're seeing fathers investing more in their children."

As fathers have won an increasing number of residence decisions, orders providing for them to have contact have fallen by more than 3 per cent since 1994-95. Orders providing contact for mothers have risen by about 2 per cent.

The Chief Justice of the Family Court, Alastair Nicholson could not be contacted for comment yesterday.

[RPI-Fan]

When someone throws out a out of nowhere "there's two sides to every story" drivel, that means someone doesn't believe that person's side of the story. So what is her justification for violating the law? I'm some kind of terrible person because I want to be the dad that I never had? Because I think that spending time with my son would be beneficial to him?

Look, I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, bring strange women home, or possess pornography of any kind. I make my child support payments on time including extra for school clothes, etc., and I make sure that I spend as much quality time with Matt with what little time I have him. I have never been abusive or neglectful towards Matt during any part of his life. I have never committed a felony. I'm currently working towards my English Education degree, I am gainfully employed with the Veterans Services at the unemployment office, and I do volunteer work at the Omniplex science museum.

So what is her justification for eroding my rights to visitation?

Schmidty is absolutely correct, and had I read this thread earlier I would have posted the same exact thing.

Good luck and keep us updated!
~rpi-fan

[Barkeep49]

Looks like some encouraging signs over in Australia:
There has also been a small net increase in so-called "split residence" rulings - up from 3 per cent in 1994-95 to 4.2 per cent in 2000-01.

In such cases, each parent "wins" to the extent that each has at least one of their children living with them full-time.

Boy that sure seems like a clear case of putting the parent's interests ahead of the kids. Seems to me keeping siblings together, should be a priority.

It is encouraging to see men start to be given a fair shot in custody hearings (even if the news was from Australia)

[Galaxy]

Boy that sure seems like a clear case of putting the parent's interests ahead of the kids. Seems to me keeping siblings together, should be a priority.

It is encouraging to see men start to be given a fair shot in custody hearings (even if the news was from Australia)


I agree, the spilt thing seems terrible.

[Psmith]

I hope things work out for you, Duckman. It sounds like your new lawyer is really on top of things and will work out a fairer deal for you (or at least force your ex to abide by the previous deal).

I thought people might be interested in hearing a different perspective on this: I recently read a British novel written in 1869 about two parents who separated. Back then, the law was that the mother could keep her child until he was 7, if she could support him with her own money. After the age of 7, the father could take the child, with NO recourse for the mother. In 150 years, the situation hasn't become fair for both parents, it's just cruel to the father for a change.

(I'm not saying that fathers should have to pay for what mothers once suffered. I'm just exasperated and baffled that courts and governments can swing from one extreme to the other without even noticing the middle ground.)

[Subby]

Why do you think your ex hates you so much?

[jeff061]

I think for a lot of mothers it's a competition thing. They don't want the kids to grow more strongly attached to their father than to them. My mother ran into that enough that she said some stupid things. I was with my father for the court allotted time of 5 or 6 days per two weeks, but if I wanted to spend more time she got a bit antsy(still didn't stop me though).

Whether that's the case here I don't know, but I could see her making up bullshit just so she doesn't have to "compete". I think it comes down to insecurity problems.

[Blackadar]

Why do you think your ex hates you so much?

This is a very good question. The way you write your posts, it sounds like she has a lot of hostility toward you - and vice versa. I know divorce can be a painful thing, but it appears there is more hostility than "normal".

If this is the case, it's quite possible that since she feels very wronged, she may suppose that you will continue those wrongs with the child. For example (strictly an example), let's say you two got into a fight and you backhanded her across the face. Hell, she may have even hit you first. But she may now feel that you have a problem controlling your anger and may assault the child in a fit of rage. It's easy to transfer these hurts and project them happening on your child. Once you do, it's a very natural thing to want to protect the child by keeping you out of the picture.

Of course, she may be completely psychotic. But that's a different story.

Speaking of which, there are two sides to every story. You ranted about Schmidty's post when he said there are two sides to every story. Well, there are. You then started ranting about her violating the law. But even by your own posts, you weren't always around (not your fault), you didn't always pay child support, etc. I'm sure you're a fine father - but it sounds like there's a lot of anger on both sides of the fence here.

[duckman]

Why do you think your ex hates you so much?
I think there is a lot of factors leading up it.

First, she was treated poorly by her father who also verbal abuse her mother as well. He would make fun of her when she was wearing braces while flirting with her friends in front of her. He called her "pizza face" because she had a rare kind of acne that was difficult to treat. It left her with a great mistrusting of the opposite sex.

Second, I left her twice because she was showing some strange behavior. She would intentionally keep me up through the night to fight about anything that would get a response out of me. I was constantly being accused of cheating on her when I had never done so or even had the means and opportunity to do so. I was working a lot at the time either with a series of part-time jobs and eventually my training in the Air Force.

She would say off the wall comments like she wish she was a man, or how she wished she never had Matthew so she could be single. It was nerve racking to say the least. I tried to get her help, but she refused to see a priest, or counselor. She even made a shrine from old pictures of girls I hung around with during high school. I was actually very afraid of her.

The final straw was when I was accused of beating her, yet she didn't have a mark on her. While station in Mississippi, I was arrested for disturbing the peace because we got into an argument over my supposed infidelity. That's when she made the accusations, but when I asked for a full physical examination, she recanted her story.

Shortly after that, I moved back onto the base and she and Matt returned to Oklahoma. She sent me a letter telling me she was going to ruin my life for embarrassing her by leaving. She immediately filed for divorce once she returned. I showed the letter in court, but it did little to influence the judge. However, I knew leaving was the best course of action since she was now accusing me of battering her. Of course, she would never mention it in court.

I'm not saying I'm angel either. I became short tempered with her in the final months of the marriage. I just gotten sick and tired of the way I was being treated even though I was doing everything I was supposed to do as a husband and father. I never cheated on her and I certaining never hit her. I spent time with Matthew playing games. Hell, I never even called her a name until that night I got arrested. My patience (nearly two years worth) just simply ran out.

[duckman]

But even by your own posts, you weren't always around (not your fault), you didn't always pay child support, etc. I'm sure you're a fine father - but it sounds like there's a lot of anger on both sides of the fence here.
I wished that I was around more often, but I was unable to to get a humanitarian change of station to Oklahoma. The child support wasn't being paid because there was no income coming in when I was unemployed. I filed for unemployment, but my former employer fought every step of the way and I eventually gave up. Now that I have steady income, I have been making double child support payments to get caught back up. I'm only three months behind now and I expect to be caught up in about two months.

My anger stems from being punished for "embarrassing" her. I should get to see Matt in a reasonable manner. I shouldn't have to beg to see him and I shouldn't have him used against me. How would you feel if your wife used your kids as weapons against you? I bet you would feel similar to waht I'm feeling.

[duckman]

Dola...

I also apologized for my rant towards Schmidty. He has a right to want to know the whole story.

[flere-imsaho]

Best of luck, duckman. Sounds like you made a good decision on the new attorney.

In college, I had a prof (male) who had a daughter and then got divorced. His ex was a big-time corporate lawyer. During the entire time I knew him, he was struggling with the fact that the court ruled that he had to support his daughter in the manner to which she was accustomed. Fine, except that the ex could afford to take her to places like Rio de Janiero on a regular basis, whereas this prof kicking in half for those kind of trips basically used up all of his money.

The system's broken. I don't know how you fix it, but it sure seems broken.

[Galaxy]

Things like me make me not want to get married or have kids in that regard. Not that I am even close to that point in my life anyways. I remember reading in the papers that P. Diddy was order to pay $250,000 a year in child support (highest in NY state), and he went on an attack against the decision.

[SFL Cat]

Coming from a broken home myself, I'm hoping things fall your way duckie. My only question...isn't illegal to record a phone conversation unless you get the consent of the person you're talking to?

[duckman]

Coming from a broken home myself, I'm hoping things fall your way duckie. My only question...isn't illegal to record a phone conversation unless you get the consent of the person you're talking to?
In Oklahoma, the law is written that only one person has to consent to the recording of an one on one phone conversation. In other words, as long it's just me and her talking and I consent to the recording even if I am doing the recording then it's perfectly legal.

[Chubby]

In Oklahoma, the law is written that only one person has to consent to the recording of an one on one phone conversation. In other words, as long it's just me and her talking and I consent to the recording even if I am doing the recording then it's perfectly legal.
Frank Gifford told me it's the same law in NY :D

[duckman]

Frank Gifford told me it's the same law in NY :D
Gold.

[duckman]

Dola...

The temporary order hearing was pushed back until the 12th. Her lawyer tried to push it back further, so she could have him enrolled in school, but the judge decided that temporary custody should determined before he is enrolled to nay school.

[AlexB]

From what I have read on the internet, the British system is very much slanted in favor of the mother. I've read there has been cases of an abusive and neglectful mother still keeping custody of her children with the judge throwing up his hands like he couldn't do anything about it. Is is this true?

Tbh I used up the majority of my wide-ranging knowledge of UK custody policy in my previous post :D

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this was the case, and I understand the general trend is that there has to be a damned good reason why the mother doesn;t get the kids, but specifics I don't know I'm afraid, not being married or having any children it's one of those areas on which I have a little general knowledge only, and you know what they say about a little knowledge...

[duckman]

Tbh I used up the majority of my wide-ranging knowledge of UK custody policy in my previous post :D

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this was the case, and I understand the general trend is that there has to be a damned good reason why the mother doesn;t get the kids, but specifics I don't know I'm afraid, not being married or having any children it's one of those areas on which I have a little general knowledge only, and you know what they say about a little knowledge...
I understand completely. My knowledge of the British system is limited to what is available on the internet. Unfortunately, I don't have the resources to find the necessary literature, so I could get a better understanding of the situation over there.

[duckman]

Tomorrow's the big day. The attorneys agreed to have the temporary custody hearing and the actual hearing tomorrow if that makes sense. Anita explained it to me that the judge may take some time before making a decision, so the temporary order will be still need to be decided.

I'm far more nervous about this than I was with the spinal surgery. I just hope there is enough evidence to make my case. I realized that I'm in an uphill battle and could easily be sent home with my tail between my legs. Despite that, I still feel that I made the correct decision to fight for custody. He's worth it!

Matt has been with me this week and we've been having a great time. We've been working on catching the football on the run in the backyard. He's still having problems with pulling the ball in when he does gets his hands on the ball. He's definitely a work in progress. :)

[Joe]

good luck tomorrow

[Airhog]

Just be there for your son, even if it hurts now. You son will eventually get wise to the way your ex-wife is, and as long as you are there for him, he will be there for you.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Good luck Duck.

[Swaggs]

Good luck man.

[Galaxy]

Matt has been with me this week and we've been having a great time. We've been working on catching the football on the run in the backyard. He's still having problems with pulling the ball in when he does gets his hands on the ball. He's definitely a work in progress. :)

I know the Eagles may be in the market for a new receiver. :D

[duckman]

I know the Eagles may be in the market for a new receiver. :D
I think he's more apt to play linebacker. ;)

[Kodos]

Good luck, Duckman. I hope this goes the right way. And get the boy a Lake Monsters jersey, for Pete's sake. :)

[JeeberD]

Good luck today, duckie!

[KevinNU7]

Hope everything is going well!

[Eaglesfan27]

Good luck Duckman!

[Celeval]

Praying for you.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Good luck today duckman. I hope your attorney wipes the floor with hers.

[CamEdwards]

Good luck Duckie.

[Draft Dodger]

ditto to all the good luck wishes

[Pacersfan46]

I'm praying, and wishing. Yet, I'm wishing for whatever is best for the kid. It seems that more than likely that is with you, but I know being in a crappy situation as a kid made me who I am today. A fairly normal person living in society. Watching my parents as a kid made me go .... "I'm smarter than they are, and I'm 12 years old. Do I want to look that stupid when I'm older?"

So, I turned into a non drinking, drug free member of society. Amazing! lol

[duckman]

Sorry about the late update, but I was extremely busy and tired yesterday. I wanted to be well rested before reporting anything back, so I won't miss anything. The brain begins to shut down early when I don't get much sleep. :)

The hearing was for temporary custody only and dealt with the relocation statue. Here is an account to what happened:

My ex was to go first in the hearing. She claimed she called me in "early May" about getting married to some guy in Kansas and she would be moving Matthew there in the last week of June. She also calims that we agreed to one weekend a month and two weeks in the summer. She admits to not learning of the law until after she called her attorney, gave me a handwritten letter the weekend she left for Kansas, and left for Topeka anyways. Anita cross-examined her and had her admit that she didn't know the exact date in May she made the call. During the cross-examination, "Kat" (the real persona of my ex) reared its ugly head and tried to take jabs at me. Anita immediately attacked her for making the comments and had them stricken from the record. This really got to my ex and she will later go after Anita verbally. More on that later.

The ex's attorney, David, brought up the ex-mother-in-law to verified that I dropped Matthew off the week before he moved to Kansas implying that because I didn't make a big deal of the move to her that I was giving consent of the move. The ex-in-law wanted to "speak freely" and was allowed by the judge. She goes into this very emotional spiel about how Matthew always wanted brothers and sisters and a live-at-home dad. This opened the door for Anita to ask about how my ex moved into her second husband's house before they were married. The ex-in-law admitted that they moved in together shortly after we divorced while she was collecting alimony from me. This will come up huge later.

It was my turn. I told the judge that I received a phone call from my ex on May 25. She told me that she was moving and that she spoke with her attorney about it so there was nothing I could do about it. I said that I agreed to one weekend a month on the condition that I get an updated visitation schedule from the current one and that those weekends lost were added on in the spring and summer. I told the judge the reason I remember all this is because I kept a written record of these type of conversations with my ex. David's cross-examination was pretty easy. He asked me if I ever made any protest to her about the move. I sad that I told her my concerns, but I was amendable if I was compensated for the time lost.

After the testimony, the judge decided to allow Matt to stay with his mother for the time being. He wants to see how he is adjusting in Kansas with his new family and how well he does in school. After making that ruling, he immediately tore into my ex for "trampling on the rights of the father", "disregrading the laws of Oklahoma, and "thumbing your nose at the judicial system". He ordered my ex to bring Matthew to me at her own expense until the custody hearing and may have to do so permanently "since you've decided to move there, yo should pay for it". Failure to will result in contempt of court and she would lose custody of Matt. She will have to pay $300 in attorney fees to Anita. We were both ordered to work out a temporary visitation schedule and we could not leave the courthouse until there was one. He told David that would be in his best interest to work something out because "she may not like it if I have set up the visitation schedule". :D

The four of us went into one of the conference rooms across the hall to work something out. Anita is pissed because she lost the custody portion of the hearing and begins to play hardball with David. David gets ugly with her, so Anita got up to go tell the judge they could not come to an agreement. David stopped her and asked what did we want. We began asking for everything under the sun. "Kat" reappeared and went after Anita by saying "You're not a mother are you?" This pissed Anita off and they began going after each other verbally. David eventually asked "Kat" to leave the room.

We began working something out when "Kat" reentered the negotiations. After about twenty minutes, she shows her true self again by saying "We're giving up a lot for someone who disappears for nine months". Again, "Kat" is asked to leave the room. She again reentered the negotiations after some time. I went to the restrooms.

While in the restrooms, she agains goes off on Anita because she couldn't find the school calendar she was looking at. "Kat" yelled at Anita and threw one of the extra calendars at her. She is told to stay away from the conference room. I went back into the room to discuss the schedule when "Kat" had a fit about me being in there. "I don't see how he can be in here while I can't! I should be able to partake in this!" David simply told her that she can't keep her emotions in check, so she needed to sit in the waiting room with her parents. I was eventually asked to leave to make her feel better.

After three hours, we came to following deal:

-I keep Matthew until Monday evening at 5pm
-Labor Day weekend
-Three day weekend in October
-Fall Break
-All of Thankgiving Break
-At noon on Christmas Day to New Year's Day 2006
-I'm guranteed two visits a month
-I will come to Topeka on the weekend of Dec 9 to 11 to check out his new home and school.
Also, thanks to my ex-mother-in-law, I may get my child support debt forgiven. Since my ex decided to move into her boyfriend's home while collecting alimony, I would most likely have it paid back to me. David is going to propose to my ex a deal where I won't go after her for the alimony she recieved in exchange for having my late child support wiped out. He's going to wait a couple of weeks for her to "calm down" because the way she acted in the conference room.

Overall, it was considered a "win" for my ex-wife because she got to keep custody of Matthew. However, I felt vindicated by the fact that judge saw how my rights were being ignored. Her two trips a month will pretty much wipe out all the child support she receives from me and is fitting punishment for the what she did. She was esspecially pissed that she has to shell out $300 to my attorney fund. Also, Anita finally got to see the real face of my ex. Anita told me on the way back from the courthouse that she thought I was exaggerating about her behavior, but now see her for what she really is. She is licking her chops at the next opportunity to rip into her again in court. She is extremely motivated to win me custody in the custody hearing.

It's far from over. There will be a review hearing in October to see how Matt is adjusting. After that, there will be the custody hearing to see who he will stay with. In between that will be the deposition. Anita told me to write down every question that I want asked because she has to answer them in deposition. I'll start on writing those out today. I will be recording every single phone conversation we have and will be carrying a journal with me in the car, so I can write down every single conversation we have.

Still, I'm going to relish in my victory! :D

[Eaglesfan27]

Congrats. I hope things go well with the next hearing.

[Draft Dodger]

nice!

sounds like you have a hell of a lawyer. and a miserable wretch of an ex.

[fantastic flying froggies]

I completely missed this the first time around, and just read thru the whole thing.

I am glad that you feel good about the latest ruling, it sounds as if you've been thru a lot already Duckie.

[Airhog]

I hope you win custody Duckman!

[ice4277]

Good luck to you. Sounds like things may finally be turning the corner in your favor.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Duckie wouldn't you have loved to be in the car with her on the way home after the hearing? :D

Congrats duckman. I hope the hearing in October and the custody hearing go just as well.

[duckman]

Duckie wouldn't you have loved to be in the car with her on the way home after the hearing? :DI have a pretty good idea of went on. :D

She just called a little while ago, but I didn't answered. After signing the agreement for the visitation schedule, her family tried to convince me to let him go back to Kansas tomorrow instead of Monday like the agreement made. Of course, I said no because it was agreed to me keeping Matt until Monday during the negotiations. She only calls when she wants something, so I'm certain that's what the phone call is about.

[PilotMan]

Go get 'um brother! One dad to another, I got your back.

[Loren]

isnt it kinda ickky that you're happy with her now having to spend all the child support on making the trips to your place :confused: >>"Her two trips a month will pretty much wipe out all the child support she receives from me and is fitting punishment for the what she did"
kinda sounds like you're getting a little vidictive like her, and overlooking the child?but i could be wrong....

[duckman]

isnt it kinda ickky that you're happy with her now having to spend all the child support on making the trips to your place :confused: >>"Her two trips a month will pretty much wipe out all the child support she receives from me and is fitting punishment for the what she did"
kinda sounds like you're getting a little vidictive like her, and overlooking the child?but i could be wrong....
I can see your point of view, but I'm going to answer your question with a question.

Don't you think it's "ickier" for her to move to another state with our son without proper 60 day written notice and attempted to pass off a visitation schedule which took away 13 weekends and any any holiday visitation as something I would actually agree to?

The judge hit her where it hurts the most for her and that's the pocketbook. As far as I'm concerned, the punishment fits the crime.

[oliegirl]

isnt it kinda ickky that you're happy with her now having to spend all the child support on making the trips to your place :confused: >>"Her two trips a month will pretty much wipe out all the child support she receives from me and is fitting punishment for the what she did"
kinda sounds like you're getting a little vidictive like her, and overlooking the child?but i could be wrong....


As a mother on the other side of this equation (my son's ex told me 4 years ago he wanted to sign away parental rights because he didn't want to pay child support anymore) I had the same reaction when I read that she has to fund the visits. Unfortunately, people who are no longer with the other parent of their child use the child as a way to get back at their ex. My ex did this with me repeatedly (even though he was the one to end the relationship in the first place - when I was 8 months pregnant!) and the judge we had was a single father and very pro-father's rights. I never got a fair shake in court even though I was the one looking out for what was best for our son. I am glad this judge can see through Duckman's ex and realizes she is manipulative and has been twisting/abusing the system to meet her wants. I hope that whatever happens, the child is happy and gets to have a good relationship with BOTH parents. It would also be nice if the parents can someday get to a point where they can parent together, even if they don't do anything else together. If that can't happen, then I hope Duckman's lawyer lays into the ex and exposes her for what she is and that the judge sides with Duckman. Everyone makes mistakes, but it's the person who can own up to those mistakes and learn from them that in the end deserves the chance at having custody of the child.

[Flasch186]

I can see your point of view, but I'm going to answer your question with a question.

Don't you think it's "ickier" for her to move to another state with our son without proper 60 day written notice and attempted to pass off a visitation schedule which took away 13 weekends and any any holiday visitation as something I would actually agree to?

The judge hit her where it hurts the most for her and that's the pocketbook. As far as I'm concerned, the punishment fits the crime.

yup, the minute she moved in with him as a living together situation you shouldnt have had to pay a dime. Im glad you are getting your turn in the cat bird seat.

[duckman]

yup, the minute she moved in with him as a living together situation you shouldnt have had to pay a dime. Im glad you are getting your turn in the cat bird seat.
The living situation has nothing to do with. I'm still responsible for the sharing the cost of clothing and feeding him. It's about the fact she defied a law and moved him away from his family in spite of the law. She now has to brunt the cost of living so far away from Matt's family. I hope it becomes permanent as a reminder of what happens when one breaks the law and ignores the rights of others.

[Kobeck]

Just read thru this thread and I say congrats Duckman. My limited experiences with the legal system lend me to believe that the laws are maliable and you were right for getting a bulldog lawyer to represent you.

Again congrats.

FWIW in Tennessee the husband is the father of all children concieved in the marriage, no matter who the biological father is. Now that is screwed up.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Alright Duck!!! I think I am in love with your lawyer...

[duckman]

Alright Duck!!! I think I am in love with your lawyer...
Anita is awesome. She is vicious as a lawyer, but a very sweet person outside the court. She has this motherly quality about her that I admire. She gave me a squeeze around the neck on the way out saying "They gave us the farm, but I'm going to get you custody." :D

[duckman]

FWIW in Tennessee the husband is the father of all children concieved in the marriage, no matter who the biological father is. Now that is screwed up.
Thanks for the info. I think Noop was curious about it. ;)

[Neuqua]

is this Anita single?

[duckman]

is this Anita single?
No, but she's a little too old for my taste (late 50's). :p

[JeeberD]

Congrats on the ruling... :)

[duckman]

By the way, thanks everybody for the congrats!

Matt and I are having a good time together. It has been raining here, so he has been playing a lot of Empire Earth lately especially yesterday. He was a little upset about getting yelled at by his mom yesterday, but I got him back to smiling and joking like usual. Fed him one of his favorite meals of beer brats and potato chips. He got plenty of hugs from me as well. It took a couple of hours, but he bounced back. "Kat" needs to keep her emotions in check and not take it out on the kiddo.

[Emiliano]

I really hope everything turns out for the best, for you and your son.

Good luck.

[duckman]

*sigh*

Matt has been gone for a day now, and I'm really starting to miss him now. I'm already counting down the days until Labor Day weekend, so we can hang out together again. It's a good thing that school starts back up on Monday, so I can keep myself busy until it arrives. I'll give him a call tomorrow night and see how his first day at the new school went.

[sterlingice]

Just caught up with this thread and congrats on the court ruling, duckman. It's probably not quite what's ideal for your son, but it's a lot better than what it was before.

As an aside, I can't believe how much grief you've gotten from people in this thread- yeesh

SI

[duckman]

*sigh*

My ex and I are probably going back court.

She agreed in August negotiations to have Matt here in by 6pm, but she's starting her crap again. On the 1st of this month, before a scheduled visit on the 2nd, "Kat" called me to inform me that she would be bringing him at 8:30pm instead of the agreed time. I asked her why and she told me that she needed to wait until her husband got off work. I immediately called Anita about it and contacted her attorney. She called me back a few hours later and told me that this would not happened again. My ex's attorney assured Anita that it wouldn't after suggesting to let me have another weekend because of the hours shaved off would about equal to another weekend. I went ahead and picked Matt up at 8:30 that evening.

She called me a few hours ago to inform me that she would have him here at 9:30 tonight. I asked her why and she said that she has to work. I offered to meet her in Witchita, but she refused because she doesn't want to pay for my travel costs. Instead of getting into an argument on the phone, I called Anita to tell her about it. She told me that she's going to file a contempt of court hearing because of this.

She still doesn't get that she can't keep doing things like this. She's already on bad terms with this judge, yet she will continue to pull the same shit that got her in trouble in the first place. My patience has run out with her, and I hope she gets nailed to the wall.

[Galaxy]

When is your court date?

[duckman]

When is your court date?
I have a hearing in October over how well Matt is adjusting in Topeka. There hasn't been a date set for the custody hearing.

[Ksyrup]

I completely missed this thread the first time around (vacation). Sorry to hear everything you've been through, but glad to see things are starting to work out better.

My uncle is in the middle of a several year nightmare after his divorce - he has two teenage daughters who have been turned completely against him, making abuse allegations, refusing to see him, failing in school, cutting themselves, etc. It's just awful. His ex married some old hippie biker who died of an overdose a month after the wedding and one of the girls found him dead in the bathroom. In the meantime, my uncle lost his job (works in the car industry in Detroit, not a good time for that), can't afford child support or a lawyer, and has to put up with all of this bullshit and the realization that neither of his kids want to see him. It's just incredibly depressing to watch him go through that and realize that he was me 15 years earlier - married with two young girls.

[duckman]

Sorry to hear about your uncle, Ksyrup. :(

I'm extremely worried that she will manipulate Matt the same way your uncle's ex has done to his two girls. There not many things worse than having your kid(s) hate you.

[Ksyrup]

And that's why you are right for fighting the way you are. My uncle would have done the same, but the divorce/lost job/mortgage foreclosure, etc., all hit him within about a year. Frankly, we're just happy he's still alive, because he almost completely lost it several times. And he did get to see his kids recently when we all got together for a family wedding. But they still don't treat him the way they should. It's heartbreaking to watch.

[Raiders Army]

I completely missed this thread the first time around (vacation). Sorry to hear everything you've been through, but glad to see things are starting to work out better.

My uncle is in the middle of a several year nightmare after his divorce - he has two teenage daughters who have been turned completely against him, making abuse allegations, refusing to see him, failing in school, cutting themselves, etc. It's just awful. His ex married some old hippie biker who died of an overdose a month after the wedding and one of the girls found him dead in the bathroom. In the meantime, my uncle lost his job (works in the car industry in Detroit, not a good time for that), can't afford child support or a lawyer, and has to put up with all of this bullshit and the realization that neither of his kids want to see him. It's just incredibly depressing to watch him go through that and realize that he was me 15 years earlier - married with two young girls.
I don't understand why his girls turned against him. To make allegations of abuse is really wild as well. Not that I doubt that he's a good person, but why would people make those accusations?

[duckman]

Sorry for the late update. It was pretty crazy last week between the car accident, my dad in the hospital, and the move during the weekend.

The hearing last week was uneventful. My ex wanted out of paying the entire burden for bringing Matthew to Oklahoma. They sited the rising gas prices, but the judge told her that he will not let her out of it until after the year is over.

We went back to one of the conference rooms to discuss the visitation schedule and other issues about the visits. She will now bring extra clothes for Matthew because I'm always running out before the weekend is over. She will now drop Matthew off at my home instead of me picking Matthew up at her parent's home. I now have to call by 9:00 the night prior to pickup because she claimed that I was late to picking him up (I don't know what this accomplished since she will now be dropping him off). Also, if I do pick him up, I cannot be more than 45 minutes late or I have to pay for the entire travel cost. Funny sinceI was late once and it was only 10 minutes. :rolleyes:

The biggest bombshell is that she is pregnant. :eek: :eek: :eek:

I wasn't even paying attention, but Anita recognized the maternity shirt. My jaw hit the floor once she told us. I can call it right now. That marriage will be over six months after the baby is born. I feel sorry for Matthew too because he seems to be adjusting to life in Kansas right now. I have thought about working out a visitation schedule, but now I think I will stick with getting custody.

[Galaxy]

Sorry for the late update. It was pretty crazy last week between the car accident, my dad in the hospital, and the move during the weekend.

The hearing last week was uneventful. My ex wanted out of paying the entire burden for bringing Matthew to Oklahoma. They sited the rising gas prices, but the judge told her that he will not let her out of it until after the year is over.

We went back to one of the conference rooms to discuss the visitation schedule and other issues about the visits. She will now bring extra clothes for Matthew because I'm always running out before the weekend is over. She will now drop Matthew off at my home instead of me picking Matthew up at her parent's home. I now have to call by 9:00 the night prior to pickup because she claimed that I was late to picking him up (I don't know what this accomplished since she will now be dropping him off). Also, if I do pick him up, I cannot be more than 45 minutes late or I have to pay for the entire travel cost. Funny sinceI was late once and it was only 10 minutes. :rolleyes:

The biggest bombshell is that she is pregnant. :eek: :eek: :eek:

I wasn't even paying attention, but Anita recognized the maternity shirt. My jaw hit the floor once she told us. I can call it right now. That marriage will be over six months after the baby is born. I feel sorry for Matthew too because he seems to be adjusting to life in Kansas right now. I have thought about working out a visitation schedule, but now I think I will stick with getting custody.

Wow......When and what is the next step?

[sterlingice]

Oh, c'mon. Kansas isn't too awful. Tho, my tune may change after I get back from Manhattan tomorrow (Gorby's coming to the middle of Kansas- who'dve thunk it) ;)

SI

[NoMyths]

Kansas is pretty awful.

[sterlingice]

Just don't go west of, say, Topeka.

SI

[SackAttack]

Just don't enter the immediate area that falls west of Kansas City, east of Colorado, south of Nebraska, and north of Oklahoma.

Fixed that for you.

[Ksyrup]

I don't understand why his girls turned against him. To make allegations of abuse is really wild as well. Not that I doubt that he's a good person, but why would people make those accusations?Sorry, never saw this comment.

Because they are (or were, when the divorce happened) young teens who were constantly lied to and brainwashed by their mother, who they were living with. She has them convinced that the father has left them to starve to death while he lives the good life, that kind of stuff. The allegations are so transparent, it's awful. One of them I can remember was that one of the girls was crying about something that happened at school, he went into her room to console her, was sitting on the bed with her and put his hand on hers, hugged her, etc. A week later, after being back with the mother, it turned into an allegation that he made an advance on her. Just awful, awful stuff.

The kids are so fucked after 5+ years of having one parent played against the other, we're all majorly concerned about what is going to happen to them once they are on their own. Even the mother's family is upset with the way she has manipulated her kids. It is so bad that my uncle's primary source of truthful information is his ex-mother-in-law.

[duckman]

SI just reminded me to update this thread, so I better get it done while I'm thinking about it. :D

In January, we had the pretrial hearing on the Friday prior to the final hearing. I was not obligated to go because it was strictly procedural. I did have to be on-call because sometimes this judge likes the parties to be present with their attorneys. However, I did not get called.

Just as the pretrial hearing was to begin, a lawyer by the name of Daniel enters the courtroom with an Entry to Appearance he filed just minutes prior to the hearing. My ex-in-laws hired an attorney for Matthew! He argues that he was hired by the grandmother in the interest of the boy. He also tried arguing that I am a bad influence on Matthew and even suggested that I have been abusive to him. Also, I should be responsible for 1/2 of his attorney's fee.

Naturally, Anita objected because a child cannot hire an attorney. Matthew is not a party in the hearing and only a judge can appoint a lawyer or Guardian ad Litem. I should not be reponsible for his attorney fees because the judge did not appoint him. Also, there has never been an allegation of abuse made against me and I have never been reported to child services.

The judge postponed the final hearing to May to hear arguments. He scheduled them for this month at the end of the hearing. So, I am going to a hearing to have him removed as counsel for Matthew next week.

This an attempt by them to run up my legal fees in hopes of settling. I don't even know why they even pulled this stunt because most likely I will not get custody. Now, i'm no longer on speaking terms with my ex's parents. To me, they are just another obstacle to spending with Matthew.

I feel confident that we are going to get him dismissed. We have some very recent case decisions to work in our favor.

To top it off, Anita is asking for an extra $2500 to fight this other attorney. We signed a contract to do this entire case for $5000, but she is claiming I owe her $1900. I'm in negotiations with her office now to work out a payment plan to get that debt paid off.

I'll let you guys know what happens after the hearing this Friday.

[Greyroofoo]

reading stuff like this makes me glad i'm not married

[Draft Dodger]

reading stuff like this makes me glad i'm not married

reading stuff like this makes me glad i'm not divorced

good luck, duckman. I really really want to see this work out for you and Matthew

[AlexB]

I see a lot of messages of support on this forum from people, but generally 'know' the people well enough or have the right words to feel I can say anything that could be of any support.

While I appreciate that this will have little or no bearing on your situation (and I probably still don't meet either of the above) I genuinely hope that you can eventually get a settlement that is good for Matthew, which from what you say above should give you the maximum input into his childhood and youth.

[duckman]

An update on the motion to remove the attorney hired by my ex-in-laws:

We had the hearing today. It didn't go as well as expected, but it wasn't a complete loss.

Matthew is able to keep his attorney despite the fact that his grandmother hired him. However, he is not allowed discovery and I will not be responsible for his legal fees. He can only ask questions during the final hearing. He won't be able to ask the same questions as my ex's attorney.

Plus, we now have an impartial Guardian ad Litem for Matthew. He/She will conduct an independent investigation and give his/her recommendation to who Matthew should live with. It was the only way we could even up the playing field. My ex and I are responsible for paying for him/her.

We're going to try to get the GAL to come visit while Matthew is staying with me for Spring Break. That way, he/she will see how we interact with everyone.

The final hearing will be on May 15th. I'll give you guys more updates whenever something major comes up.

[Galaxy]

Hope it all goes well duckman....I thought the Supreme Court ruled something that limits the rights of grandparents a year or two ago.

[Barkeep49]

That was ther right to custody I believe Galaxy.

[duckman]

That was ther right to custody I believe Galaxy.

Actually, the attorney is strictly for Matthew and not for the grandparents. The judge made it clear that even though his grandparents are paying for the attorney he is working for the "best interest" of Matthew. They are not allowed to make decisions for Matthew; however, I know better than that. He'll do what they tell him to do for the "best interest" of the boy. It's a nice theory, but I don't think it gets practice in the way the judge explained it.

[Galaxy]

Actually, the attorney is strictly for Matthew and not for the grandparents. The judge made it clear that even though his grandparents are paying for the attorney he is working for the "best interest" of Matthew. They are not allowed to make decisions for Matthew; however, I know better than that. He'll do what they tell him to do for the "best interest" of the boy. It's a nice theory, but I don't think it gets practice in the way the judge explained it.

Was the attroney appointed by the court, or is it the court-appointed attroney that the grandparents selected?

[duckman]

Was the attroney appointed by the court, or is it the court-appointed attroney that the grandparents selected?

Neither. It was a private attorney hired by the grandparents to represent Matthew.

[GrantDawg]

Neither. It was a private attorney hired by the grandparents to represent Matthew.


That's as dodgy as all get out. I can't believe the judge allowed that. It is like they are legally double-teaming you. I'm praying for you, buddy.

[Galaxy]

That's as dodgy as all get out. I can't believe the judge allowed that. It is like they are legally double-teaming you. I'm praying for you, buddy.


Kinda why I asked....Seems like it could be an interesting case. Would the judge appointing a lawyer, who was not selected or known by both sides, been a better solution? Kinda what I would think.

[duckman]

Kinda why I asked....Seems like it could be an interesting case. Would the judge appointing a lawyer, who was not selected or known by both sides, been a better solution? Kinda what I would think.

Maybe I haven't explained it well enough. :confused:

The judge in this hearing allowed this attorney to stay, but at the same time granted a Guardian ad Litem. A Guardian ad Litem is an attorney, but is used for strictly investigative purposes. He can conduct interviews and can collect evidence. My ex and I had the choice of using the public defender's office or hiring a private attorney. We chose the PD because it is cheaper.

Basically, Matthew has two attorneys instead of one. The attorney that my ex's parents hired and the Guardian ad Litem.

I hope this clears this up. :(

[GrantDawg]

Maybe I haven't explained it well enough. :confused:

The judge in this hearing allowed this attorney to stay, but at the same time granted a Guardian ad Litem. A Guardian ad Litem is an attorney, but is used for strictly investigative purposes. He can conduct interviews and can collect evidence. My ex and I had the choice of using the public defender's office or hiring a private attorney. We chose the PD because it is cheaper.

Basically, Matthew has two attorneys instead of one. The attorney that my ex's parents hired and the Guardian ad Litem.

I hope this clears this up. :(

Ah. So, the Grandparent's lawyer has a sort of "watcher." Cool.

[duckman]

Extremely good news........

My ex and I talked last night. She called me out of the blue wanting me to settle. We talked for some time and we were able to come to an agreement that we will later get in writing this weekend. Basically, this how it will go:

I will get the Oklahoma County Standard Visitation Schedule with some modifications:

1) She will be responsible for the transportation of Matthew to Oklahoma. She will have to deliver him to me.

2) We will split the cost of transportation, but I won't have to travel to the halfway point any longer.

3) I will allot some time (3 hours) for him to spend with his maternal grandparents on Sundays.

4) I will get 5 weeks in the summer.

5) We'll review the visitation each year to determine if he wants to stay for more than 5 weeks in the summer.

Next, I will update my child support payment to reflect my higher income. It will go up an extra $100 a month.

Finally, I will pay her the 4 months of back support. I will no longer be responsible for the back daycare expenses in exchange for not trying to collect the alimony that she was paid.

Quite frankly, I am shocked that she wanted to settle since we went through this trouble. It may have to due to the fact that she has a new baby. Who knows? What I do know is that I will get more visitation than I have ever had before and that makes me extremely happy. Sometime next week, we will have the new deal signed and this nightmare will be over.

Thank God. :)

[sterlingice]

Excellent :)

SI

[Cuckoo]

Good to hear, duckman. Very good to hear.

[IwasHere]

I have a question if you have a blood test and find out the child isn't yours could the judge still force you to pay child support?
You are watching to much Judging Amy.:)

[Swaggs]

Great news. :)

[Draft Dodger]

I'm ecstatic for you Duckman. great great news for you and your son.

[Flasch186]

congratulations!!

[JeeberD]

Awesome, congrats duckie!

[Eaglesfan27]

Congratulations, Duckman! :)

[FrogMan]

sweet, sweet news duckie! :)

FM

[SFL Cat]

Great news, duckie! Hope the sea stays serene for you.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Noop
I have a question if you have a blood test and find out the child isn't yours could the judge still force you to pay child support?

In Georgia, if you have previously agreed to paternity without any proof (blood test, dna, etc...), and then have proof that you are not the father - it doesn't matter as you have already sworn legally that you are the father.

[oliegirl]

Dola - that is great news Duckie! Congrats!!!!

[Galaxy]

In Georgia, if you have previously agreed to paternity without any proof (blood test, dna, etc...), and then have proof that you are not the father - it doesn't matter as you have already sworn legally that you are the father.


Way too much power for woman in this situation..Plus, isn't it true that you can put anyone as the father on the birth certificate, and they would have to sue through DNA to prove you are not the father?

[oliegirl]

Way too much power for woman in this situation..Plus, isn't it true that you can put anyone as the father on the birth certificate, and they would have to sue through DNA to prove you are not the father?

I don't know, but when I said "previously agreed to paternity", I meant the father. If there is a question of paternity and the guy the woman says is the father says in court "yes, I am the father and I don't want/need proof" then it doesn't matter if somewhere down the line he wants to contest it, or if he has proof that biologically he isn't the father. It's equal to a man marrying a woman with a child, adopting the child and then divorcing the woman - he is still that child's father in the eyes of the court and he can sue for custody just as if he were the biological father.

[duckman]

You guys are going to love this:

Friday, my ex informed me that she was moving back to Oklahoma. She had found a house just a little over a mile from my place and that she was moving in on Saturday. Basically, she told me that she's moving to be closer to her parents and that her husband was going to follow her once she had gotten established in the new home. She's in the process of finding a job.

It sounds a bit suspicious to me, but I'm not going to complain since I won't be driving 10 hours every other weekend to see Matthew. I think this is a crack in their marriage and it won't be long before she announces that she will be divorcing her husband. It's sad really because it just another thing that impacts Matthew and I hate seeing him getting drug through my ex's relationships. I don't know if he's aware of it, but she likes to take pot shots at him when she talks to me on the phone.

The ironic part is that we are just finishing up the settlement for the visitation schedule we made for when they were living out of state. It was a good thing that we agreed to a clause for when she moved back since it was only a matter of time before she would. Tomorrow, I will sign it and then the judge will need to sign off on it.

[wade moore]

Woohoo! Congrats!

Just don't let her try to weasel her way back into your life, keep it to Matthew only ;).

[duckman]

Woohoo! Congrats!

Just don't let her try to weasel her way back into your life, keep it to Matthew only ;).

Something tells me that won't be a problem. ;)

[wade moore]

Something tells me that won't be a problem. ;)
Figured, but she seems like the type to try.

[duckman]

Figured, but she seems like the type to try.

She has tried it in past. I was still in the Air Force at the time. She tried calling me asking me stuff like whether I had a girlfriend or when was the last time I was got some action, but I just brushed her off. She even invited me over for dinner and I declined. When I did, she berated me on the phone saying that it was a mistake to tell her no yadda yadda. She has never tried since. :D

[Draft Dodger]

great, great news

[FrogMan]

great, great news

what the man said. :)

Very happy for you Duckie, now give Matty a big hug for all of us :)

FM

[JeeberD]

Great news, bud!

[sterlingice]

Good deal :)

SI

[Eaglesfan27]

Awesome news :)

[Craptacular]

That is good news.

[mrsimperless]

So when is the custody hearing?

I went through a divorce a few years ago that was quite ugly as well. There was no custody battle for me as I was resigned to the fact that I didn't have a chance in hell of winning. Her mother is a good person for the most part, just vindictive as hell towards me and of course playing the whole "child as a pawn" game.

I did luck out though, as she got remarried this past spring and he seems like a really good guy. She's calmed down quite a bit since getting remarried and I'm even getting some extra time with my 6-year-old daughter at Christmas this year.

Best of luck in your custody battle. I do however hope for your son's sake that you and your ex can eventually put your differences behind you and work together to make things better for your son. It sounds like she is definitely the problem at this point, but maybe someday she will see things differently and change her behavior at least to the point where you can make parenting decisions together and not argue every time you speak to each other. That's how it was with me for 3 years. Only recently has she seemed to let the past go. She even sent some of my daughter's graded homework home with her for me to see and gave me a school picture the last time I had her.

It definitely takes time, but things CAN get better. Best of luck.

[Northwood_DK]

Great new, Duck

Now you just need to turn those NAFL Lions around and you are back on track. :p