OT: Update from the War

[flere-imsaho]

This is a follow-up to this thread. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=41037&highlight=prayers)

Again, if people think it's inappropriate to share updates about my brother, I'll stop.

Anyway, we have good news & bad news.

Good News

Packages sent to Ben where the sender doesn't share his last name are making it through. Seems the mail problem that was previously reported was sorted out, which is great news.

We found this out because a student from the college Ben went to sent Ben a pillow and some blankets, and they made it through. You'll remember from the last update that Ben had to pay for his linens (apparently "renting" them), so this is good news. The college in question has two alumni serving in Iraq, and the students have "adopted" them in this manner.

If you're at all interested in sending packages to Ben (for him or to share with folks in his company), all the info is on my website (www.kamilewicz.org), or you can PM or email me.

Many thanks to those who have contributed money for his AT&T Calling Card. This allows him to talk to his new wife and to our parents, and really makes a huge, huge difference.

Bad News

It's likely you've seen in the news this week the stories about the Marines killed W/NW of Baghdad. This is in Ben's area, and this is the Marine group that Ben's Army NG unit is supporting. I don't have any specific updates from him on this, but I'm sure it's been a real blow to everyone serving in that area.

Along those lines, I have to say that it's a disconcerting way to live. Every day my first action is to check the news from overnight to see where the American casualties were from the previous day in Iraq. If they're in the Ramadi area it worries me doubly. Even if they're not, I spend a moment thinking about the families of the soldiers who were killed that previous day, and how I'd feel if Ben was wounded or killed.

It's real affecting. Hardly an hour goes by when I don't think of him. My brother & I have always been pretty close, but we've been physically apart since I left for college in 1991. I've never thought about him to the extent that I do now.

Since Ben's been deployed, I've changed a bit. Stuff that used to bug me doesn't so much now. As a (admittedly, minor) example, I unfortunately got into an altercation with an opponent during an Ultimate Frisbee match the other night. This guy, a real belligerent asshole, tried everything he could to wind me up, including following me to the sidelines when I substituted, getting in my face & yelling at me. Normally I might have responded pretty robustly, but I couldn't be bothered. To my mind, I have bigger things to worry about.

Enough about me, though. This has been far, far harder on my folks. My parents are, unlike me, definite pacifists, and have been so every since I've known them. They had big reservations about Ben joining the Guard (pre-9/11), and ever since 9/11 have more or less waited for and dreaded these days. My mother's a nervous wreck and I have never seen my father so depressed.


Anyway, sorry to get so personal there. Just an update for those who are interested (if any). As I get updates, I'll bump the thread a bit.

[sachmo71]

How long is his deployment?

[flere-imsaho]

18 months, though that can be extended. He's contracted to the NG until 2009, barring stop-loss, though, so a second deployment could happen after this one.

[CamEdwards]

Flere,

I hope this doesn't come off like a trolling question, because it's not. I understand what your parents are going through. Even though I support the war, if it were my son or daughter, I'd be worried sick as well. I don't think that has anything to do with them being pacifists, just parents.

Having said that, I'm really curious: are your parents proud of your brother? It must be difficult to have a child do something you consider to be the "wrong choice" and yet be supportive of his/her decision.

Anyway, I'm keeping your brother in my thoughts and prayers, and I hope this doesn't come across as me picking on your parents. As the father of five, I'm sure I'm going to be confronted with a similar situation one day.

[Flasch186]

This is a follow-up to this thread. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=41037&highlight=prayers)

Again, if people think it's inappropriate to share updates about my brother, I'll stop.

Anyway, we have good news & bad news.

Good News

Packages sent to Ben where the sender doesn't share his last name are making it through. Seems the mail problem that was previously reported was sorted out, which is great news.

We found this out because a student from the college Ben went to sent Ben a pillow and some blankets, and they made it through. You'll remember from the last update that Ben had to pay for his linens (apparently "renting" them), so this is good news. The college in question has two alumni serving in Iraq, and the students have "adopted" them in this manner.

If you're at all interested in sending packages to Ben (for him or to share with folks in his company), all the info is on my website (www.kamilewicz.org), or you can PM or email me.

Many thanks to those who have contributed money for his AT&T Calling Card. This allows him to talk to his new wife and to our parents, and really makes a huge, huge difference.

Bad News

It's likely you've seen in the news this week the stories about the Marines killed W/NW of Baghdad. This is in Ben's area, and this is the Marine group that Ben's Army NG unit is supporting. I don't have any specific updates from him on this, but I'm sure it's been a real blow to everyone serving in that area.

Along those lines, I have to say that it's a disconcerting way to live. Every day my first action is to check the news from overnight to see where the American casualties were from the previous day in Iraq. If they're in the Ramadi area it worries me doubly. Even if they're not, I spend a moment thinking about the families of the soldiers who were killed that previous day, and how I'd feel if Ben was wounded or killed.

It's real affecting. Hardly an hour goes by when I don't think of him. My brother & I have always been pretty close, but we've been physically apart since I left for college in 1991. I've never thought about him to the extent that I do now.

Since Ben's been deployed, I've changed a bit. Stuff that used to bug me doesn't so much now. As a (admittedly, minor) example, I unfortunately got into an altercation with an opponent during an Ultimate Frisbee match the other night. This guy, a real belligerent asshole, tried everything he could to wind me up, including following me to the sidelines when I substituted, getting in my face & yelling at me. Normally I might have responded pretty robustly, but I couldn't be bothered. To my mind, I have bigger things to worry about.

Enough about me, though. This has been far, far harder on my folks. My parents are, unlike me, definite pacifists, and have been so every since I've known them. They had big reservations about Ben joining the Guard (pre-9/11), and ever since 9/11 have more or less waited for and dreaded these days. My mother's a nervous wreck and I have never seen my father so depressed.


Anyway, sorry to get so personal there. Just an update for those who are interested (if any). As I get updates, I'll bump the thread a bit.

next time tell the asshole, your brother is on the front lines in Iraq....him shouting at you doesnt really amount to much. Then smile and say, "Still feel like a big shot? go get the frisbee."

[Raiders Army]

Glad to hear your brother's doing okay. From what I've heard, it's much harder to be here than over there. At least that's what my wife told me. She said that she couldn't sleep, she would watch CNN non-stop hoping for a glimpse of me (and fortunately I was on CNN as well as our local NBC News). Unfortunately, it seems as if the media has forgotten that there is a war going on, and would rather report on Police handcuffing an unruly kindergartener in March of this year (see CNN's website). Maybe the next time you talk to him, let him know to reassure your parents. I always did when I called back to the states and told my wife I was okay, even when it wasn't.

It's hard to maintain a truthful account, yet reassure your parents that he's safe. In my mind, I think that they're going to worry anyhow. Also, their worrying won't keep him safe; his buddies on the ground will. I go with the philosophy of why let someone else worry about you when they can't help you? My two cents.

[flere-imsaho]

Having said that, I'm really curious: are your parents proud of your brother? It must be difficult to have a child do something you consider to be the "wrong choice" and yet be supportive of his/her decision.

Well, bear in mind that my brother didn't join the NG to fight the War on Terror, as he enlisted before 9/11. Since he's against our involvement in Iraq on a personal level, there's not a conflict between them on that level.

My parents are proud of him and have told him that many times. Proud that he's doing the best he can in a difficult situation. Proud that he's being utterly professional about it. During his last leave (in June) before deployment (in July), my wife & I drove out to Vermont and my parents came down from Maine so we could spend time with him for a few days. During this time I'd say the main focus was on how much we love him and will miss him, but certainly there was respect accorded for what he's doing.

I think you touch on a good point, though. How do you support a soldier who is carrying out a mission with which you disagree? Well, I think that despite the political spin made about the motivations of anti-war folks, it's quite possible to support the troops, but not the war. Do we think serving your country is a noble calling? Yes. Why are we proud of Ben? We are proud of him for doing a difficult job none of us would be willing to do. Ben's making good on the commitment he made when he signed up for the Guard. I think anyone has to respect that.

I think those who support this war and scold the anti-war folks for not "supporting the troops" would have been well served to observe one particular time during that week in June. One evening we had a big get-together for Ben's friends who live in the area, so they could say goodbye. My folks had brought lobster from Maine (which Ben loves), so we had a fun (& messy) time with that.

Everyone at the table was anti-war (some generally, some specifically vis-a-vis Iraq). There were mean-spirited comments made about Bush. But the amount of support, respect and love for Ben expressed that evening would, I think, show anyone that those who are anti-war can, in fact, support the troops. And that includes the WWII vet who owns the house from whom Ben & Sarah have been renting the basement.

Anyway, I hope this reply answers your question, and isn't trolling in response.

[CamEdwards]

i consider that a very well-spoken answer. And I thank you for it.

[flere-imsaho]

I'm afraid this latest update is not a happy one. I talked to my folks on Sunday and got the latest about Ben. They still get calls from Ben (thanks for your donations!) but say he's almost incoherent as between patrols and equipment maintenance he's working 12 hours a day. Since July 17th, he's had one day off. He's also had a couple of 20 hour door-to-door patrols where they're literally going from door-to-door to search for weapons/insurgents.

One of their big problems right now is their Humvees. Most of his company are riding in 1025 Humvees when they were supposed to have 1114 Humvees. I'm not sure of the difference, but maybe FOFCers who have served can help out. Apparently all the brass have 1114s, though, but none of the brass leave the base.

Most of these Humvees are on their 3rd tour of Iraq, and are apparently in really tough shape. He writes that his Humvee is unarmored and has numerous bullet holes through which one can see right through the vehicle. Most of the Humvees also have to be hot-started, and so they're generally just traded between patrols, so they don't have to go through the hassle of restarting them. He has high praise for their mechanics, who are doing a lot to keep these things going.

The Humvees have gun turrets mounted on them, which act as their main weapons platforms. The one on his vehicle doesn't rotate anymore, so if they want to change its direction of fire, they have to move the vehicle. Ben tells us that most of the vehicles have this problem, so the soldiers just stick to their rifles. He and his fellow soldiers have reported it to their chain of command, who told them to just deal with it and fix it themselves.

This is a pretty bad situation. One day last week his particular Humvee broke down while on patrol and they had to repair it onsite - the mechanics working to fix the vehicle while the rest watched for possible attacks from insurgents. Apparently breakdowns like this are happening on a more frequent basis and the soldiers worry the insurgents will start using these incidents for attacks.

Enough about Humvees. I also learned what the mix-up was when he initially got in-country. Apparently when his company (or maybe division) trained at Camp Shelby in Mississippi, they all trained with their individual units, the expectation being that they'd keep these units intact when they were sent to Iraq. Apparently once they got to Iraq, though, they switched a whole bunch of personnel around, so most groups were full of soldiers who hadn't worked together before. He says it's unclear why they did this, but may have something to do with keeping consistent numbers or something like that.

Their weapons are apparently in terrible shape, and they're never quite sure if their rifles will actually fire or not. To make matters worse, this last week, Ben & a few units of soldiers went past the FOB to test fire their weapons before a patrol. They were later reprimanded for doing this, and have been told they can no longer test fire their weapons.

Lastly, he's shared some information on the insurgency from the 1/9th, the Guard group his group has replaced. Apparently the 1/9th reported that after the invasion, the local economy was still doing OK, but during the time of their deployment, it mostly petered out. Nowadays the major employer in the area is the insurgency, which offers large amounts of money for locals to go plant IEDs along the roads. Aside from this, there's apparently very little else for Iraqis to do in that neck of the woods.

We have, as usual, forwarded the information about the equipment problems to our elected officials, but we haven't heard if anything will be done. For the moment we're hoping for the best, but the news certainly isn't good this week.

[sachmo71]

My understanding re: the turret issue is that the lubricant that is being used does not like sand very much at all. This was from a former coworker of mine who was a mechanic in the Army. Not sure if it's true, but it seems logical.

[MalcPow]

Try to stay positive. Two of my roommates for the last four years are over there now, and I get little things like this from them all the time when they call. When they first arrived the "incoherent" factor was definitely higher than I expected, considering they're both active duty guys and one of them is a Ranger. But they've since adjusted, and one of them was even what I have to call upbeat when we talked yesterday. I think it takes time to settle in, and although I can imagine your frustration with things like the Humvees, you have to try not to dwell on them.

My friend recounted a ten-minute friendly firefight they ended up in because somebody in some other unit thought they saw something in a window, opened up with the .50 cal, and the bullets tore through the building into the FOB my friend was at a couple hundred meters away on the other side. So they return fire on the building, thinking the shots were coming from there, instead of through there. Basically both sides are firing through a building at each other thinking someone in the building is firing at them until people get on the radio and figure things out. No one is hurt, but my friend referred to it as the "single most educational experience" of his life. This happened early enough that it scared the crap out of all of us that he was telling us this, but he now says he feels safe, and that people know what they're doing.

I don't think it's an easy situation, but I know both my friends thought it was much worse than it was before they got settled in and understood things better. I'm realizing this was less consoling than I wanted it to be... but consider your brother added to my nightly prayer list...

[Anthony]

i respect and am appreciative of the sacrifce your brother and your family is making on behalf of the US.

[Cuckoo]

i respect and am appreciative of the sacrifce your brother and your family is making on behalf of the US.

Agreed.

[flere-imsaho]

Unhappy News

A few days ago Sarah (Ben's wife) asked Ben if there had been any ramifications from his complaints to his CoC about the maintenance issues. He said no, but that apparently commanders had been heard asking about "the soldier whose parents have written to their Senators". Mom & Dad have written at length to the congressional delegations of Maine and Vermont. In fact, on Tuesday Dad had a one hour, one-on-one meeting with Sen. Olympia Snowe.

Sarah got the impression Ben wasn't telling her quite everything.

Since then we haven't heard a thing from him, which is out of character.

Weird News

Sen. Snowe has a staffer whose been in contact with Ben & my folks from relatively early on. He has been working for the Senator on getting questions answered at the Pentagon about the troops & their equipment, and has been continually frustrated by what he terms "stonewalling".

This staffer has, apparently, now received at least two anonymous phone calls from someone who knows exactly what he's doing and to whom he's talked. The anonymous person has given him hints about where to look for specific information, and what to ask to get better answers, all of which advice has worked (to an extent) so far.


That's it for this week. Keep your fingers crossed.

[Raiders Army]

HMWWVs:

1025s don't have the suspension to carry the extra weight of being a "hardened" HMWWV, which is probably why they're breaking down more often. The 1114 is built to carry the extra armor, so it will break down less.

#1: That being said, they need to ensure they are doing their before, during, and after PMCS after every patrol. Additionally, they need to do their weekly and monthly PMCS. If they do those things correctly, that will help alleviate their problems.

#2: Is the problem with the supply system? If the HMWWVs are deadlined, then the parts need to be ordered O-1 priority. From what I remember, that Area of Operations will receive parts before any other region. If the parts are on order, then the problem could lie in the LOGPACs that send the parts out.

I think we'd need more information to deduce where the problem is, but your brother can help out by properly PMCSing his vehicle (not saying that he isn't, but it's important) and annotating any deficiencies.

Weapons:

There is absolutely no excuse for weapons not to work. Your brother should have been assigned a weapon and they need to be PMCSed as well. Is he using an M16A2? It's not a complicated weapon, and just needs to be cleaned properly and oiled. What is the problem exactly? Are they jamming? If they're jamming, that means the weapons probably aren't clean. Every soldier is responsible for his/her own weapon. If your brother can't fire his weapon, that's his fault. (that's a little harsh, but it's the truth)

Also, I would warn him what about what information he shares with you. I wouldn't be surprised if he were reprimanded for telling your parents about the insurgency. Every set of loose lips over there can be the potential for soldiers dying unnecessarily. OPSEC is key.

[flere-imsaho]

Got this in an email tonight from Dad:


Today, according to Sarah who talked to Ben, Ben and two other soldiers were manning a checkpoint, when Ben approached a white van to inspect it. Upon approaching it, a man jumped out of the van and started spraying the area with an AK-47. Ben had the presence of mind to grab his own revolver and shot the man. At that point, a number of others jumped out and a firefight ensued. After it was over, Ben and his soldiers were OK except for helmets creased by bullets, a damaged 50mm machine gun and a burning white van. They had nearly been killed. They will have the rest of the day and apparently tomorrow off, and then they will be back at 12 hour shifts doing the same thing.

[timmynausea]

Holy shit. Glad he's ok.

[Raiders Army]

Glad he's ok, but I doubt he has a revolver and I doubt it was a 50mm. Again, this is what I mean when I say that when soldiers call back to the states, things get misinterpreted.

He probably had a 9mm and it was a .50 cal.

[flere-imsaho]

Glad he's ok, but I doubt he has a revolver and I doubt it was a 50mm. Again, this is what I mean when I say that when soldiers call back to the states, things get misinterpreted.

He probably had a 9mm and it was a .50 cal.

The quote was from an email from my Dad, who knows absolutely zero about guns, so cut him some slack, OK?

For "revolver" substitute whatever the standard issue sidearm is.

For "50mm" substitute whatever the machine gun mounted on their Humvee is (.50 cal, yes, I assume).

The gist of the message remains intact, despite these errors.

[Raiders Army]

The quote was from an email from my Dad, who knows absolutely zero about guns, so cut him some slack, OK?

For "revolver" substitute whatever the standard issue sidearm is.

For "50mm" substitute whatever the machine gun mounted on their Humvee is (.50 cal, yes, I assume).

The gist of the message remains intact, despite these errors.
My post wasn't meant to cut your brother down...or your father for that matter. (I thought Sarah got the message and then relayed it to your dad who relayed it to you?)

My point was that stories that come from in-theater tend to be misinterpreted. Did I attack you at all? No. Did I question that he was attacked? No. I apologize if it seemed that way.

My earlier post, which you did not respond to, mentioned the possible problems which may affect his HMWWV use. I'm wondering what the problems are. I do stand by my comments earlier that it is entirely his fault if his weapon does not fire. As a captain over there, I cleaned my 9mm daily...which is also something I asked of my soldiers. It's an individual responsibilty.

[Leonidas]

Something I've noticed is an amazing difference of the moral and perception folks and different units have in the desert. This difference is especially strong between AD and guard/reserve. I'm responsible for manning an 8 person shop in Kuwait, 5 of them are mine the other 3 guard/reserve. My guys are always pumped, even fighting who goes on the next rotation. Guard guys are hating life.

I also see a big difference in the Army. The 82nd Airborne folks I know going over have great morale and Fort Bragg is having record reenlistment rates since OIF kicked off. Then you see reports direct from folks in guard and reserve units over there just hating life. I suppose that's to be expected as guard guys probly never expected to be in a position like this when they joined and 82nd ABN guys are volunteers who likely wanted to be in something like this to begin with when they went into the Corps.

I also know a few Marines with an entirely different attitude still. Mind you, the guys I know are grisled veterans, but their attitude was it's a job to do, we'll go in and do the best we can, but don't expect me to have a good time doing it.

I know these are just generalizations across the board and you will find exceptions to all of them at all levels. But I get really peaved when the news will latch onto one perspective from the front and reports it as the norm across the board. You see the normal networks reporting on bad attitudes of guardsmen (or their families who you expect to not be happy) as the norm and Fox extolling the morale of spec ops guys as the norm. You can't sum it up so neatly and simply.

Flere, may your brother and all the folks in his unit come home in one piece and alive.

[JW]

Well, bear in mind that my brother didn't join the NG to fight the War on Terror, as he enlisted before 9/11. Since he's against our involvement in Iraq on a personal level, there's not a conflict between them on that level.

My parents are proud of him and have told him that many times. Proud that he's doing the best he can in a difficult situation. Proud that he's being utterly professional about it. During his last leave (in June) before deployment (in July), my wife & I drove out to Vermont and my parents came down from Maine so we could spend time with him for a few days. During this time I'd say the main focus was on how much we love him and will miss him, but certainly there was respect accorded for what he's doing.

I think you touch on a good point, though. How do you support a soldier who is carrying out a mission with which you disagree? Well, I think that despite the political spin made about the motivations of anti-war folks, it's quite possible to support the troops, but not the war. Do we think serving your country is a noble calling? Yes. Why are we proud of Ben? We are proud of him for doing a difficult job none of us would be willing to do. Ben's making good on the commitment he made when he signed up for the Guard. I think anyone has to respect that.

I think those who support this war and scold the anti-war folks for not "supporting the troops" would have been well served to observe one particular time during that week in June. One evening we had a big get-together for Ben's friends who live in the area, so they could say goodbye. My folks had brought lobster from Maine (which Ben loves), so we had a fun (& messy) time with that.

Everyone at the table was anti-war (some generally, some specifically vis-a-vis Iraq). There were mean-spirited comments made about Bush. But the amount of support, respect and love for Ben expressed that evening would, I think, show anyone that those who are anti-war can, in fact, support the troops. And that includes the WWII vet who owns the house from whom Ben & Sarah have been renting the basement.

Anyway, I hope this reply answers your question, and isn't trolling in response.

I think your response is excellent. It is quite possible for true patriots to oppose this war while supporting and respecting those fighting the war. It is difficult for some people on both sides of the war to understand this though. And I believe that Vietnam remains in the shadow, with many people remembering how many opponents of that war demonstrated hatred for the young men sent to fight in Vietnam. This is why there is such a visceral reaction to comments such as those by Durbin that smeared all soldiers.

I do believe, however, that most who oppose our presence in Iraq recognize the valor and steadfastness to duty of those who are serving in Iraq.

[flere-imsaho]

(I thought Sarah got the message and then relayed it to your dad who relayed it to you?)

Correct. I'm sure Sarah used the correct terminology, though, as she's also in the Army and grew up with guns.

My point was that stories that come from in-theater tend to be misinterpreted. Did I attack you at all? No. Did I question that he was attacked? No. I apologize if it seemed that way.

I should have put a ;) after the "cut him some slack" comment, because it was meant in that way, not in a negative reaction way.

My earlier post, which you did not respond to, mentioned the possible problems which may affect his HMWWV use. I'm wondering what the problems are. I do stand by my comments earlier that it is entirely his fault if his weapon does not fire. As a captain over there, I cleaned my 9mm daily...which is also something I asked of my soldiers. It's an individual responsibilty.

Regarding the HMWWVs, I'm not sure what "PMCS" is, but I'll assume it means something like maintenance. He's relayed three problems with maintaining them:

1. Many have to be hot-started, so they just leave them running and hand them off to the next patrol, so these rarely get maintained. They have been directed to do this by their commanders, who want as little downtime as possible.

2. They simply don't have enough maintenance staff available. My brother's company shipped out with roughly 1/3 the number of men a full company is supposed to have.

3. Parts, which speaks to your other question. It's a combination of not getting parts (why that is, is unclear) and just simply needing so many. As I said, most of these vehicles are on their 2nd or 3rd tour in Iraq and are just in terrible shape to begin.

As for weapons, his rifle is an M16, but I don't know which version. It is old, and when he got it originally (in Vermont), it was already in bad shape. When I last spoke to him and he mentioned it, he didn't go into specifics. I do know his Guard unit had trouble with these weapons when they were in Vermont, so these don't necessarily sound like new issues.

I don't think it's a maintenance/cleaning issue with the rifles. Although Ben didn't grow up with guns, most of the guys in his unit are real backcountry boys who lived around guns from a very young age. They're all very saavy and I find it difficult to believe they'd slip on maintenance whilst in Iraq (or even before).

I hope that answers some questions. On another topic, he's not shared any information about the insurgency that can't already be read in any major newspaper.

[flere-imsaho]

I also see a big difference in the Army. The 82nd Airborne folks I know going over have great morale and Fort Bragg is having record reenlistment rates since OIF kicked off. Then you see reports direct from folks in guard and reserve units over there just hating life. I suppose that's to be expected as guard guys probly never expected to be in a position like this when they joined and 82nd ABN guys are volunteers who likely wanted to be in something like this to begin with when they went into the Corps.

I think that's a crucial difference. The Guard was never sold in a "going to be shipped off overseas for 18 months" kind of way. Two other things:

1. Many, if not most, Guard soldiers are older and have families & careers they have had to drop to go to Iraq. Someone who signs up for the regular army has a different situation.

2. Most Guard units have suffered from severe underfunding since, really, the Vietnam War. They've gone to Iraq with outdated or missing equipment. The same isn't true of Active units.

Anyway....

Funny you mention the 82nd. Last I heard, they'll be replacing the Marine unit Ben's Guard unit is supporting. Apparently the 82nd does things very differently from the Marines, so the Guard folks are looking forward to their arrival. Small world.

[Raiders Army]

Regarding the HMWWVs, I'm not sure what "PMCS" is, but I'll assume it means something like maintenance. He's relayed three problems with maintaining them:

1. Many have to be hot-started, so they just leave them running and hand them off to the next patrol, so these rarely get maintained. They have been directed to do this by their commanders, who want as little downtime as possible.

2. They simply don't have enough maintenance staff available. My brother's company shipped out with roughly 1/3 the number of men a full company is supposed to have.

3. Parts, which speaks to your other question. It's a combination of not getting parts (why that is, is unclear) and just simply needing so many. As I said, most of these vehicles are on their 2nd or 3rd tour in Iraq and are just in terrible shape to begin.

As for weapons, his rifle is an M16, but I don't know which version. It is old, and when he got it originally (in Vermont), it was already in bad shape. When I last spoke to him and he mentioned it, he didn't go into specifics. I do know his Guard unit had trouble with these weapons when they were in Vermont, so these don't necessarily sound like new issues.

I don't think it's a maintenance/cleaning issue with the rifles. Although Ben didn't grow up with guns, most of the guys in his unit are real backcountry boys who lived around guns from a very young age. They're all very saavy and I find it difficult to believe they'd slip on maintenance whilst in Iraq (or even before).

I hope that answers some questions. On another topic, he's not shared any information about the insurgency that can't already be read in any major newspaper.
Hmmmm...it sounds to me as if there are some serious problems there. I would tell you that your family is probably going about it in the right fashion, although you may be waiting a while if you do this through Congressional channels. There are many reasons why you don't want to make a complaint through a Congressman.

First, all that Congressman is going to do is make an inquiry (or Congressional) through the DoD to the Army. Then, the Army will investigate either through Chain of Command channels or through Inspector General channels. The response will go back through the Army to the Congressman. The Congressman will then respond back to you.

This is a lengthy process that may/may not get the results you desire. Unfortunately, it's too late to do this through IG channels, since you have already contacted your Congressman.

There is absolutely no excuse as to why the HMWWVs should not be properly maintained. The command needs to ensure that it is done. PMCS is Preventative Maintenance Checks and Services. There is a before check which includes checking tires, fluid levels, batteries, lights, the body, etc. The during check is while you're using the vehicle (checking the gauges, etc.). The after check is again checking out pretty much what you did in the before check.

When you say "hot-started", do they mean using a slave cable to start them? A slave cable is the equivalent of jumper cables. I'm not sure what they mean by "hot-start". There are no keys for the ignition.

There are a couple of possibilities as to why they aren't getting the parts they need:

1. Due to the low number of maintenance staff, they are not putting the parts on order, or the disks are not shipped out (disks in their maintenance computer should be sent to their battalion, brigade, division headquarters with the capability of putting the order "in the system").

2. There is stealing going on. Other units are taking their parts as they come in, so they never make it to your brother's unit.

It's probably a combination of the two. I'd reiterate the feelings of others when I say good luck and I hope he comes back safely.

[jamesUMD]

1. Many, if not most, Guard soldiers are older and have families & careers they have had to drop to go to Iraq. Someone who signs up for the regular army has a different situation.

I have to take humbrage with this comment. Not to be mean or sarcastic, but when you sign up for the Reserve or National Guard, the contract is not just for the 1 weekend a month and 2 week training excercise once a year. You are signing up to be an "on call" full time employee.

I did 4 years active duty and my wife's cousin Christopher is in Iraq on his 2nd tour. He is a Bradley Fighting Vehicle driver that has been converted into a ground pounder (Infantry).

It drives me nuts when the Reserve and NG guys say they did not sign up for this. That's BS! If you join and receive pay, security clearances, possible job networking oppotunities, commisary priveleges, preference when applying for government jobs, VA loans, possible retirement pay, and/or any job training/leadership skills, you indeed did sign up for it.

Every time you re-up your contract, you are making a concious decision (regardless what life changes may have occurred) to say, if called upon, you are ready to go to war. To enlist or re-up, absorb the benefits that the military presents you with, and then say that you didn't sign up for this, when your number gets called is just ridiculous. Active military have families also. Wive's and children do not just show up at your door one day and say here we are (at least in most cases). Those are factors that should have been weighed when deciding to re-enlist.

I am sorry be so harsh. I hope that your brother and every soldier over there comes back physically and mentally whole. I just think people need to take responsibility for the choices they make in their lives and not make excuses.

[JW]

I have to take humbrage with this comment. Not to be mean or sarcastic, but when you sign up for the Reserve or National Guard, the contract is not just for the 1 weekend a month and 2 week training excercise once a year. You are signing up to be an "on call" full time employee.

I did 4 years active duty and my wife's cousin Christopher is in Iraq on his 2nd tour. He is a Bradley Fighting Vehicle driver that has been converted into a ground pounder (Infantry).

It drives me nuts when the Reserve and NG guys say they did not sign up for this. That's BS! If you join and receive pay, security clearances, possible job networking oppotunities, commisary priveleges, preference when applying for government jobs, VA loans, possible retirement pay, and/or any job training/leadership skills, you indeed did sign up for it.

Every time you re-up your contract, you are making a concious decision (regardless what life changes may have occurred) to say, if called upon, you are ready to go to war. To enlist or re-up, absorb the benefits that the military presents you with, and then say that you didn't sign up for this, when your number gets called is just ridiculous. Active military have families also. Wive's and children do not just show up at your door one day and say here we are (at least in most cases). Those are factors that should have been weighed when deciding to re-enlist.

I am sorry be so harsh. I hope that your brother and every soldier over there comes back physically and mentally whole. I just think people need to take responsibility for the choices they make in their lives and not make excuses.

I was very much involved in the call-up, train-up, and deployment of many Reserve and National Guard soldiers who deployed to Desert Storm. You are right about the choices you make to join the Reserve or Guard. It does entail a commitment to deploy and serve in combat for long periods of time if necessary. I found during Desert Storm that in my experience at least, most of the Reserve units I worked with had no real problems. However, many of the young National Guard soldiers were quite resentful about being called up, especially the college students. And to some extent I understood, because at least at that time the Guard was being sold as a way to get through college, without an emphasis on the possibility of long and dangerous deployments. However, I could not sympathize too much with those young Guard members because no one lied to them, and they should have been fully aware of the possibility, even if that possibility was not emphasized, and even if it seemed very remote.

[HomerJSimpson]

I was very much involved in the call-up, train-up, and deployment of many Reserve and National Guard soldiers who deployed to Desert Storm. You are right about the choices you make to join the Reserve or Guard. It does entail a commitment to deploy and serve in combat for long periods of time if necessary. I found during Desert Storm that in my experience at least, most of the Reserve units I worked with had no real problems. However, many of the young National Guard soldiers were quite resentful about being called up, especially the college students. And to some extent I understood, because at least at that time the Guard was being sold as a way to get through college, without an emphasis on the possibility of long and dangerous deployments. However, I could not sympathize too much with those young Guard members because no one lied to them, and they should have been fully aware of the possibility, even if that possibility was not emphasized, and even if it seemed very remote.


Are you sure they were not lied to? Isn'y it possible that the recruiter told them they would not be deployed overseas under any circumstance? Heck, I had a regular Army recruiter tall me that no one ever was deployed overseas in their first enlistment. I knew this was bull, but it didn't stop him from feeding me (and several others) that line.

[Eaglesfan27]

I also know that I've been fed a lot of BS by recruiters for the National Guard trying to bolster MD's in the service.


Flere, I hope your brother and his unit make it back ok.

[JW]

Are you sure they were not lied to? Isn'y it possible that the recruiter told them they would not be deployed overseas under any circumstance? Heck, I had a regular Army recruiter tall me that no one ever was deployed overseas in their first enlistment. I knew this was bull, but it didn't stop him from feeding me (and several others) that line.

I was given incorrect information by an Army recruiter in the summer of 1973. I'm not sure if he lied to me or didn't know what he was talking about. It happens.

So I will not say none of them were ever lied to by anyone. I was speaking in generalities. I wasn't clear on that. What I meant is that there was no mass or organized attempt to lie to them, though I also know there was a general assumption by most people in the unit and the public in general that a largescale call-up of the unit was very unlikely to occur since the Cold War was over. No one really thought it would ever happen.

However, the young men and women pulled from college when this unit was called up should in my opinion have realized that in the event of some extraordinary occurrence, they could be called to active duty. They should have realized it could happen, even if the possibility was remote.

And, frankly, I never heard any of them say, "I was lied to," though I heard a lot of, "I joined to go to college, not go to war." Many of these young people made a gamble in a bid to get a free college education, gambling that nothing would happen during the time they were in college. The odds seemed to be very much with them, but they lost. Hence their anger, like a guy betting on a sure thing in a horse race and losing. What I came across was anger at the situation, not a belief that they had been deceived in any way, and I worked very closely with many of these soldiers. I think they were old enough to understand the possibilities. I put the responsibility squarely on the shoulders of those who freely swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution.

And, btw, in this case, the National Guard unit I refer to, a mechanized infantry brigade, never deployed. The war ended too soon. Many of the Reserve units I helped mobilize did deploy, and I never heard any complaints for those soldiers.

And, to be honest, most people on active duty at the time never expected half a million service members to be deployed and fighting a war in the Middle East.

[Raiders Army]

There also is a difference between "lied to" and things have changed. The Guard's mission has changed dramatically between pre-Desert Storm and now.

Also, I reiterate that when you join, you swear an oath to obey the orders of the President of the United States. That's pretty much a catch-all.

[jamesUMD]

Recruiter=Salesman

[Buccaneer]

I have a friend who has been over there as a DoD contractor for a year now, as well as a co-worker friend in the Guards and both have said that Baghdad is a huge city, you just got to know where the hot spots are and avoid them if you can. The ones that are manning the patrols and guarding the front lines have my ultimate respect and good wishes until they can come home.

[Dutch]

Recruiter=Salesman

and

Recruiter = No Draft Cards

[HomerJSimpson]

There also is a difference between "lied to" and things have changed. The Guard's mission has changed dramatically between pre-Desert Storm and now.

Also, I reiterate that when you join, you swear an oath to obey the orders of the President of the United States. That's pretty much a catch-all.


Yes, there is a big difference. When a recruiter tells you something that they know is false, that is called "lied to." It occurs about every ten seconds in this country.

[HomerJSimpson]

dola: Just to back this up (and I mentioned this in another thread), I was talking to a kid at school was joining up. I asked him if he worried about going to Iraq, he said, "Naw, the recruiter said that no one goes to Iraq in their first term of service." I laughed and laughed and laughed. And then I was sad for all the brain-dead teenagers who fall for this line and then learn they are going straight to Iraq after school. *sigh*

[Raiders Army]

Yes, there is a big difference. When a recruiter tells you something that they know is false, that is called "lied to." It occurs about every ten seconds in this country.
As it was said before, I'm sure it happens; but to categorize every recruiter as a liar is wrong. That's like saying all text-sim game players are geeks.

[flere-imsaho]

Is it possible to have a reasoned debate over the role of the National Guard?

It had always been my impression that the National Guard existed largely for homeland defense and for deployment in times of extreme national danger. This correlates nicely with the lack of funding the NG saw during the 90s when it was somewhat clear that we didn't intend to send large forces of men into combat anymore.

But then we did.

Clearly there have been problems with NG deployments, some of which are detailed in this thread. When Iraq/Afghanistan is over, what's the solution? Do we define/redefine the NG properly and give them the money for their "new" mission? Do we expand the size & scope of the regular army?

Edit: Here's how the Army currently defines it:

The National Guard, the oldest component of the Armed Forces of the United States and one of the nation's longest-enduring institutions, celebrated its 368th birthday on December 13, 2004. The National Guard traces its history back to the earliest English colonies in North America. Responsible for their own defense, the colonists drew on English military tradition and organized their able-bodied male citizens into militias.

The colonial militias protected their fellow citizens from Indian attack, foreign invaders, and later helped to win the Revolutionary War. Following independence, the authors of the Constitution empowered Congress to "provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia." However, recognizing the militia's state role, the Founding Fathers reserved the appointment of officers and training of the militia to the states. Today's National Guard still remains a dual state-Federal force.

Throughout the 19th century the size of the Regular Army was small, and the militia provided the bulk of the troops during the Mexican War, the early months of the Civil War, and the Spanish-American War. In 1903, important national defense legislation increased the role of the National Guard (as the militia was now called) as a Reserve force for the U.S. Army. In World War I, which the U.S. entered in 1917, the National Guard made up 40% of the U.S. combat divisions in France; in World War II, National Guard units were among the first to deploy overseas and the first to fight.

Following World War II, National Guard aviation units, some of them dating back to World War I, became the Air National Guard, the nation's newest Reserve component. The Guard stood on the frontiers of freedom during the Cold War, sending soldiers and airmen to fight in Korea and to reinforce NATO during the Berlin crisis of 1961-1962. During the Vietnam war, almost 23,000 Army and Air Guardsmen were called up for a year of active duty; some 8,700 were deployed to Vietnam. Over 75,000 Army and Air Guardsmen were called upon to help bring a swift end to Desert Storm in 1991.

Since that time, the National Guard has seen the nature of its Federal mission change, with more frequent call ups in response to crises in Haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo, and the skies over Iraq. Most recently, following the attacks of September 11, 2001, more than 50,000 Guardmembers were called up by both their States and the Federal government to provide security at home and combat terrorism abroad. Today, tens of thousands of Guardmembers are serving in harm's way in Iraq and Afghanistan, as the National Guard continues its historic dual mission, providing to the states units trained and equipped to protect life and property, while providing to the nation units trained, equipped and ready to defend the United States and its interests, all over the globe.

Link. (http://www.ngb.army.mil/about/)

[Raiders Army]

Is it possible to have a reasoned debate over the role of the National Guard?

It had always been my impression that the National Guard existed largely for homeland defense and for deployment in times of extreme national danger. This correlates nicely with the lack of funding the NG saw during the 90s when it was somewhat clear that we didn't intend to send large forces of men into combat anymore.

But then we did.

Clearly there have been problems with NG deployments, some of which are detailed in this thread. When Iraq/Afghanistan is over, what's the solution? Do we define/redefine the NG properly and give them the money for their "new" mission? Do we expand the size & scope of the regular army?

You bring up some good points. I agree the Army needs to re-define the National Guard; however, money is just one of the problems. From my experience (which is not all-encompassing), National Guard units tend to need about 1-2 months in country to acclimate to their "new jobs." Once those first couple of months pass, you can't tell the difference between an Active Duty unit and a National Guard unit (for the most part). I think that in addition to more money, better training should occur. Inherent within that, I think attendance should be stricter.

Some of my buddies got out to join the National Guard (Army National Guard Combat Reform Initiative). What they told me was that they would go to the monthly drills...if they wanted to. They said that there would be about 60-75% attendance for the weekend drills. No one held their feet to the fire.

I'm sort of rambling here, so I'll cut this off...

I think that if you ask the National Guard to do what Active Duty does, then you need to make things equal....equal being the same equipment, etc. Just my two cents.

[HomerJSimpson]

As it was said before, I'm sure it happens; but to categorize every recruiter as a liar is wrong. That's like saying all text-sim game players are geeks.


Did I say all? I would say majority, not all.

[Raiders Army]

How can you still make that generalization? What proof do you have?

[HomerJSimpson]

How can you still make that generalization? What proof do you have?



Dude, chill. I've been in the military, I have many friends in the military, and have many other friends that were heavily recruited. I know the score. I've told just a surface of what I know about recruiting, but I have seen enough to know a recruiter will tell you anything to get you to sign the line.

[Raiders Army]

Dude, chill. I've been in the military, I have many friends in the military, and have many other friends that were heavily recruited. I know the score. I've told just a surface of what I know about recruiting, but I have seen enough to know a recruiter will tell you anything to get you to sign the line.
*chilled* :)

Okay. I still ask for proof.

[HomerJSimpson]

*chilled* :)

Okay. I still ask for proof.


And I gave you proof. What do want, stastics? Not possible in this kind of debate.

[Raiders Army]

You gave me proof of what you believe. You didn't give me proof that the majority of recruiters are liars. I agree that it isn't possible in this kind of debate.

[duckman]

Flere, I wish nothing but the best for your family. I hope he comes home soon.

[astrosfan64]

I have to take humbrage with this comment. Not to be mean or sarcastic, but when you sign up for the Reserve or National Guard, the contract is not just for the 1 weekend a month and 2 week training excercise once a year. You are signing up to be an "on call" full time employee.

I did 4 years active duty and my wife's cousin Christopher is in Iraq on his 2nd tour. He is a Bradley Fighting Vehicle driver that has been converted into a ground pounder (Infantry).

It drives me nuts when the Reserve and NG guys say they did not sign up for this. That's BS! If you join and receive pay, security clearances, possible job networking oppotunities, commisary priveleges, preference when applying for government jobs, VA loans, possible retirement pay, and/or any job training/leadership skills, you indeed did sign up for it.

Every time you re-up your contract, you are making a concious decision (regardless what life changes may have occurred) to say, if called upon, you are ready to go to war. To enlist or re-up, absorb the benefits that the military presents you with, and then say that you didn't sign up for this, when your number gets called is just ridiculous. Active military have families also. Wive's and children do not just show up at your door one day and say here we are (at least in most cases). Those are factors that should have been weighed when deciding to re-enlist.

I am sorry be so harsh. I hope that your brother and every soldier over there comes back physically and mentally whole. I just think people need to take responsibility for the choices they make in their lives and not make excuses.

Excellent post.

[HomerJSimpson]

You gave me proof of what you believe. You didn't give me proof that the majority of recruiters are liars. I agree that it isn't possible in this kind of debate.


Then why did you ask? ;)

I've dealt with recruiters morethan most people (again from what I listed and much more). If you don't agree, fine. I just think people who might consider joining the military know what they are getting into, and a recruiters job is to get them signed, not to shoot straight with them.

[flere-imsaho]

Quick updates:

Good News

The HMWWV 1114s have arrived! No more non-swiveling machine gun turrets (for now)!

Bad News

Still no parts for the tanks. It sounds like most of the tanks in his (battalion, I believe) are basically useless.

Ugly News

It's been very violent in August. The soldiers & marines stationed where Ben is have been involved in daily firefights with no letup.


I found out some extra detail from the checkpoint attack. It appears that luckily the .50 cal machine gun they have mounted on their (old) HMWWV (the one that didn't swivel) was pointed directly at the white van when it stopped. This meant the gunner was able to open fire with the .50 cal after Ben killed the first guy.

When he's not at checkpoints, they're out on patrol, going door-to-door doing house checks. They're checking the same places almost every other day. The area he's in is predominantely Sunni, so needless to say the local population is pretty hostile.

Daytime temps are still in the 120-130 range.

That's it for now.

[flere-imsaho]

Early this morning (Iraqi time), Ben's HMWWV hit an IED. Ben was manning the turret (mounted machine gun) at the time and was thrown from the vehicle. Luckily they were in one of the new 1114s, so there were no casualties, though they are all injured. If they had been in one of the older HMWWVs, there's a good chance they'd be dead.

[Klinglerware]

Good to hear that your brother and his comrades are ok...

[flere-imsaho]

Ben & his company have been real busy with the U.S. offensive that's been raging in Western Iraq. Also, with the run up to the referendum, things remain pretty dicey.

Saw my folks at a wedding in Boston (my cousin) this weekend, and got some further updates on a more personal level.

He has plenty of food. Between food in packages various friends & family have sent him, as well as food there, most guys are gaining weight. So, we've started to send him other necessities, such as wet wipes, and add money to his calling card instead.

An update on the two guys in the Humvee with him when it got blown up by an IED: one of the guys is fine, and has mostly recovered from his injuries. The other guy was in worse shape. He had some stuff broken but the worst injury was the skin burned off the entire side of one of his legs. The Army kept him in a tent on an IV for 5 days before shipping him off to Germany for surgery. Not sure when he'll be back.

In the "White Van Attack" Ben says they went through all 1100 rounds (of various sizes, of course) that they had on them, and then waited, sans ammo, until others showed up. The Guard appears to have a problem with affording ammunition. Ben's group have been instructed that they can only be given up to 1000 rounds a day, and only if they're out or seriously depleted. The 100 extra rounds Ben had were "personal", in that they belonged to a Guard friend who was part of the previous Guard group in his location, who left Ben his personal 9mm handgun and ammo that his father (a former NY cop) sent to him from the States.

Mechanics in the Guard get a max of 500 rounds a day, since technically they aren't supposed to leave the base. However, Ben says that all their mechanics go on daily patrols since the whole company is under-strength.

Can anyone who's served in the Regular Army comment on this "ammo rationing"?

[Raiders Army]

This whole situation sounds sickening to me. To send soldiers out there with rationed ammo is totally wrong.

I'm sorry, but I can't comment on ammo rationing since I don't know anything about it. It's the first I've heard of it. Most of the guys I know either aren't deployed or they are in a different type of unit (my best friend from West Point is a Blackhawk pilot).

Who does his NG unit support? They must support some type of Active Duty unit. I'd ask him to do a little research for you, like is the Active Duty unit rationing ammo as well? Then, I would have your family bring it up through your State AG. Sometimes it's better if the family does it instead of the soldier since there are repercussions (shouldn't be, but life happens).

[flere-imsaho]

He's supporting a Marine Active unit. I don't know which one, exactly, and probably shouldn't share it if I did.

My folks have been bringing issues like these up with their congressional representatives (Maine) and those of the state whose NG he's in (Vermont). So far the staff at Olympia Snowe's office (R-ME) have been the most helpful. It's pretty clear that it was her intervention that got the 1114s sent over. But it's very hard work. She's basically got one guy in Washington working full-time on keeping the Pentagon's feet to the fire.

[sachmo71]

Early this morning (Iraqi time), Ben's HMWWV hit an IED. Ben was manning the turret (mounted machine gun) at the time and was thrown from the vehicle. Luckily they were in one of the new 1114s, so there were no casualties, though they are all injured. If they had been in one of the older HMWWVs, there's a good chance they'd be dead.


For lack of anything better to say...that fucking sucks.

[Glengoyne]

Un Freaking believable about the rationed ammo. When I say that, I don't mean I don't believe you Flere. It is simply unconscionable that we are sending forces into the field without the ammo required to defend themselves. Forget going to a congressman...go to the press. Have somebody toss Rummy a question about it. I'm wondering if this was a temporary limitation..or an ongoing situation.

[Antmeister]

Ben & his company have been real busy with the U.S. offensive that's been raging in Western Iraq. Also, with the run up to the referendum, things remain pretty dicey.

Saw my folks at a wedding in Boston (my cousin) this weekend, and got some further updates on a more personal level.

He has plenty of food. Between food in packages various friends & family have sent him, as well as food there, most guys are gaining weight. So, we've started to send him other necessities, such as wet wipes, and add money to his calling card instead.

An update on the two guys in the Humvee with him when it got blown up by an IED: one of the guys is fine, and has mostly recovered from his injuries. The other guy was in worse shape. He had some stuff broken but the worst injury was the skin burned off the entire side of one of his legs. The Army kept him in a tent on an IV for 5 days before shipping him off to Germany for surgery. Not sure when he'll be back.

In the "White Van Attack" Ben says they went through all 1100 rounds (of various sizes, of course) that they had on them, and then waited, sans ammo, until others showed up. The Guard appears to have a problem with affording ammunition. Ben's group have been instructed that they can only be given up to 1000 rounds a day, and only if they're out or seriously depleted. The 100 extra rounds Ben had were "personal", in that they belonged to a Guard friend who was part of the previous Guard group in his location, who left Ben his personal 9mm handgun and ammo that his father (a former NY cop) sent to him from the States.

Mechanics in the Guard get a max of 500 rounds a day, since technically they aren't supposed to leave the base. However, Ben says that all their mechanics go on daily patrols since the whole company is under-strength.

Can anyone who's served in the Regular Army comment on this "ammo rationing"?


Wow! I had not realized it has gotten to this ridiculous level. I am really hoping that this is a temporary situation, but I am pessimestic enough to believe it isn't.

The most perplexing part of this story though is how was someone able to send a 9mm handgun. I didn't realize that people were allowed to recieve weapons. If it was snuck in, I understand, considering that this weapon rationing exists.

With that said, I am glad to see Ben is doing well under those strenuous circumstances. The one sad part is that he will carry around some of the baggage from this conflict long after he is gone and I hope he finds that right balance to keep his soul in check. As long as he continues to converse with the outside and others, he should do okay and it seems that is the case. I wish you guys well through this as well.

[flere-imsaho]

A few clarifications:

Ammo: The "rationing" has been happening since the start. Other Guard units have complained about it. It's actually pretty easy to google. It doesn't seem to happen to Active units.

As an addendum, I should point out that Ben's entire Guard unit, when back in Vermont, had to personally purchase all of their ammunition to conduct live fire exercises. They have never been reimbursed.

Bear in mind that soldiers in Ben's unit have also purchased many other "tools" out of their own pockets, including binoculars, supplemental body armor, & radio equipment.

The 9mm gun: Here's the story. Before Ben was ever deployed to Iraq, my folks had a next door neighbor who was a retired NY cop. His son, also in the Guard, was sent to Iraq, and happened to be stationed in the same place, doing the same role, that Ben ended up being sent to do. In fact, Ben's company has replaced the NY cop's son's unit.

Anyway, the NY cop's son encountered many of the same issues in Iraq. Apparently one of the things he said he needed was a reliable sidearm. So, the NY cop bought a 9mm gun, disassembled it, and shipped it in several packages. He also sent the ammo in other packages.

It was with this weapon that Ben killed his first Iraqi, when he was attacked in the "White Van Incident" and had his rifle (which is Vietnam-era and had been sticking anyway) slung across his back.


Anyway, hopefully when Ben comes back, we can maybe mount the 9mm on a plaque or something, but it'll probably make more sense for him to give it to the next Guard unit that replaces his.


I'll say this, though, I never thought I'd see the day that my mother, an ardent pacifist & gun-control activist, would actually go out and purchase ammunition (to send to Ben).



I do have Good News, in that at the wedding a number of family members gave me money to purchase minutes for Ben's AT&T calling card. It totalled $250, which was enough to drop another 2666 minutes onto the card, which had gotten low. I really have to give a ton of kudos to AT&T for this service, which is an absolute lifeline for soldiers like Ben & also for their families.

Why? Simple. I know I start each & every day by firing up Google News and seeing what happened in Iraq the previous day. I'm looking for any news of U.S. casualties, especially in Ben's area. This news (or lack thereof) determines how I feel for the rest of the day. But, generally when there has been a "bad day" in Ben's unit (meaning a serious firefight, or casualties) Ben usually calls his wife Sarah as soon as he can (there's usually a communications blackout just after a death) to let her know he's OK. She then calls Mom & Dad, who email the rest of the family.

Now, without the calling card, we'd only know he's OK by the lack of Army guys showing up at Sarah's or my folks' doors. So, him being able to call home is absolutely incredible for peace of mind. Well, a "kind" of peace of mind, at least.

[Dutch]

A few clarifications:

Ammo: The "rationing" has been happening since the start. Other Guard units have complained about it. It's actually pretty easy to google. It doesn't seem to happen to Active units.

As an addendum, I should point out that Ben's entire Guard unit, when back in Vermont, had to personally purchase all of their ammunition to conduct live fire exercises. They have never been reimbursed.

Bear in mind that soldiers in Ben's unit have also purchased many other "tools" out of their own pockets, including binoculars, supplemental body armor, & radio equipment.

The 9mm gun: Here's the story. Before Ben was ever deployed to Iraq, my folks had a next door neighbor who was a retired NY cop. His son, also in the Guard, was sent to Iraq, and happened to be stationed in the same place, doing the same role, that Ben ended up being sent to do. In fact, Ben's company has replaced the NY cop's son's unit.

Anyway, the NY cop's son encountered many of the same issues in Iraq. Apparently one of the things he said he needed was a reliable sidearm. So, the NY cop bought a 9mm gun, disassembled it, and shipped it in several packages. He also sent the ammo in other packages.

It was with this weapon that Ben killed his first Iraqi, when he was attacked in the "White Van Incident" and had his rifle (which is Vietnam-era and had been sticking anyway) slung across his back.


Anyway, hopefully when Ben comes back, we can maybe mount the 9mm on a plaque or something, but it'll probably make more sense for him to give it to the next Guard unit that replaces his.


I'll say this, though, I never thought I'd see the day that my mother, an ardent pacifist & gun-control activist, would actually go out and purchase ammunition (to send to Ben).



I do have Good News, I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance.

**crickets**

[flere-imsaho]

Things continue to be pretty rough in the Ramadi area.

Yesterday Ben's unit was ordered to retrieve the bodies of two Marines shot down in a Blackhawk (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L03262167.htm). On the way to the crash site, the truck in front of Ben hit a roadside bomb, killing one soldier, who was a good friend. Ben & another soldier lifted their friend's body into one of the recovery helicopters when it arrived.

When not doing other things, Ben's now been ordered to become a mechanic, since their unit continues to have far too few mechanics for their needs. Recently he's been learning how to attach extra armor onto tanks which, according to him, "doesn't seem to make a difference."

An update on the ammo issue is that they're still rationed and they've now been buying directly from the Israelis since their American suppliers can't produce bullets fast enough for the Army.

Edit: Ben's tour of duty technically ends in December, 2006, though the possibility of getting stop-lossed or sent right back after 2-4 weeks stateside is very high (obviously anything can change, though).

I don't want to sound despondent or anything, but at this point I feel it's basically just a matter of time until he either gets killed or very badly wounded. I can't shake the feeling that I have seen him for the last time as a whole person.

[Raiders Army]

I don't want to sound despondent or anything, but at this point I feel it's basically just a matter of time until he either gets killed or very badly wounded. I can't shake the feeling that I have seen him for the last time as a whole person.
Hang in there man. FWIW, when I said goodbye to my family in 2003, I thought that was the last time I'd see them. I was happy to be wrong. Sometimes those feelings are hard to deal with, but stay positive especially for your brother's sake.

[Warhammer]

Given the current force level of 120,000 troops, and that only 2000+ troops have been killed over the last two years, I'd say you have a 99% chance of seeing your brother alive. Now, not knowing what the wounded rate is, but given the fatality numbers I'd assume that it is in the 8-10,000 range. So unwounded, I would say 95%.

[monte_mcguire]

I find this stat interesting.

All things being equal. 110,000 people have died, in the United States, in automobile accidents, since the beginning of the war in 2003.

[sachmo71]

Things continue to be pretty rough in the Ramadi area.

Yesterday Ben's unit was ordered to retrieve the bodies of two Marines shot down in a Blackhawk (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L03262167.htm). On the way to the crash site, the truck in front of Ben hit a roadside bomb, killing one soldier, who was a good friend. Ben & another soldier lifted their friend's body into one of the recovery helicopters when it arrived.

When not doing other things, Ben's now been ordered to become a mechanic, since their unit continues to have far too few mechanics for their needs. Recently he's been learning how to attach extra armor onto tanks which, according to him, "doesn't seem to make a difference."

An update on the ammo issue is that they're still rationed and they've now been buying directly from the Israelis since their American suppliers can't produce bullets fast enough for the Army.

Edit: Ben's tour of duty technically ends in December, 2006, though the possibility of getting stop-lossed or sent right back after 2-4 weeks stateside is very high (obviously anything can change, though).

I don't want to sound despondent or anything, but at this point I feel it's basically just a matter of time until he either gets killed or very badly wounded. I can't shake the feeling that I have seen him for the last time as a whole person.

Think about the percentages, flere. there are 158,000 troops in Iraq. 2000 have been killed. 15k have been wounded. He's got pretty long odds of making it home safe and sound, and that is just assuming that casualty levels don't start going down.


Oh, and just for clarification, it was a Super Cobra that was shot down.
:nerd:

[DanGarion]

One of the guys I work with is currently deployed over there as well, he's in the Navy. His wife works here so I get updates from here about his status weekly. It really is eye opening when you know someone that's there.

[Warhammer]

Think about the percentages, flere. there are 158,000 troops in Iraq. 2000 have been killed. 15k have been wounded. He's got pretty long odds of making it home safe and sound, and that is just assuming that casualty levels don't start going down.


Oh, and just for clarification, it was a Super Cobra that was shot down.
:nerd:

Actually those aren't long odds. Considering this is over the course of two years, a casualty rate of roughly 5% per year is NOT bad! A casualty rate of 12% is good for a victorious army in the course of a battle (tables with this information can be found in Chandler's Campaigns of Napoleon (I think that is the title) and Archer Jones Art of War in the Western World (I think that was the book with the table, either way I have a couple of books at home with this information). Historically, the victor has a 10-15% casualty rate, whereas the loser used to have upwards of 50% casualties, but with improved morale and cohesion has approached 20-25% in the last century or so. We are looking at a casualty rate of 5% per year for a war! That is amazing!

Of course, I don't expect anyone else to think about it this way, but our casualty rates are very low.

[monte_mcguire]

I would also add troop rotation. So the total number of troops that were/are in Iraq are probably a lot higher than 158K.

[sachmo71]

Actually those aren't long odds. Considering this is over the course of two years, a casualty rate of roughly 5% per year is NOT bad! A casualty rate of 12% is good for a victorious army in the course of a battle (tables with this information can be found in Chandler's Campaigns of Napoleon (I think that is the title) and Archer Jones Art of War in the Western World (I think that was the book with the table, either way I have a couple of books at home with this information). Historically, the victor has a 10-15% casualty rate, whereas the loser used to have upwards of 50% casualties, but with improved morale and cohesion has approached 20-25% in the last century or so. We are looking at a casualty rate of 5% per year for a war! That is amazing!

Of course, I don't expect anyone else to think about it this way, but our casualty rates are very low.

I misspoke. I meant to say those were good odds. That will teach me to post here during a prop. :(

Bottom line: I think your brother has a good chance of coming home fine, Flasch.

[Dutch]

I find this stat interesting.

All things being equal. 110,000 people have died, in the United States, in automobile accidents, since the beginning of the war in 2003.

But those deaths were worth it. (As the media likes to frame it, that is.)

[flere-imsaho]

Dad forwarded me this email from Ben after the incident:


Dear Mom and Dad,

These days are long and draining and I feel the LT's (Mark Procopio) loss very much. When you work with a man so closely for so long it is hard to watch him go. We started with 16 men I believe in our platoon and he was one of them, always out with us and always giving everything. There is a hole that we feel now and nothing can replace him. We did our job and it was the right decision to go and try to secure the helicopter crash site. We all knew it was our job because we didn't want to leave those who might have been in need. It is a sad time to see two aweful things in one day and I have been very sad with the whole state of affairs. We will move on and pray that no more of this happens. I will think a long time on this day and cannot wait till my time is up here and I can go home. I love you both very much and can't wait to see you. Love Ben

[flere-imsaho]

Two pieces of news:

First, Ben's company had a story done on them by a local Vermont TV station. You can see the transcript here. (http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=4124564) Even better, the top picture is Ben! He looks dusty....

Second, he got into a crazy accident yesterday. Apparently his humvee and another were chasing a suspicious white van. During the chase, apparently visibility became a problem (I'm getting this information third-hand, so I don't have the details) and both humvees apparently crashed into a U.S. tank.

They were, however, able to immobilize the white van and kill the driver. When they sent a robot over to open it up, it (the van) was remotely detonated in a pretty big explosion.

The bad news is that he's suffered another concussion and of course there were a lot of broken bones amongst his colleagues from the accident.

[flere-imsaho]

Mom & Dad talked to Ben on Thanksgiving. No big updates, except that he got a new Humvee as a result of the steering wheel falling off the one he had (a new one, at that) while he was driving it.

[flere-imsaho]

Ben was nearby when this bomb (http://www.startribune.com/stories/722/5785440.html) blew up, killing a U.S. soldier.

Ramadi didn't slow down for the elections, so they've been kept pretty busy. The compound still gets mortared nightly and they continue to pull 14-hour patrol shifts. They continue to have too few spare parts and mechanics for their equipment.

Their 14-hour patrol shifts are followed by just a few hours off to sleep, repair equipment, etc... and then they head back out.

[flere-imsaho]

Two updates:

1. On Monday, Ben got a mention in a Wall Street Journal article talking about military athletes. You can read the pdf here: http://www.kamilewicz.org/Ben.pdf

2. Finally, Ben is getting some leave, and will be back in the States for two weeks starting around the 16th-20th (depending on flights and suchlike). We're going up to Vermont next weekend to see him, his wife, & my folks for a long weekend. I'm looking forward to it.

[Antmeister]

Two updates:

1. On Monday, Ben got a mention in a Wall Street Journal article talking about military athletes. You can read the pdf here: http://www.kamilewicz.org/Ben.pdf

2. Finally, Ben is getting some leave, and will be back in the States for two weeks starting around the 16th-20th (depending on flights and suchlike). We're going up to Vermont next weekend to see him, his wife, & my folks for a long weekend. I'm looking forward to it.

Nice....glad to see things are okay with your brother.

[astrosfan64]

Couldn't Ben have declined to goto Iraq? Even if you were called up, I thought you had to agree to go. I thought Rumsfeld made some rules that even if you are in the reserves you have to agree to go over to Iraq.

A good friend of mine is a Major in the Marines. He is here state side now and he is recruiting reserves to go over to Iraq. He told me that the media is full of crap, that soliders can actual refuse to go over if they are in the reserves. They are so paranoid about the perception of this war, that they are not forcing people to honor their obligations.

[Galaxy]

Couldn't Ben have declined to goto Iraq? Even if you were called up, I thought you had to agree to go. I thought Rumsfeld made some rules that even if you are in the reserves you have to agree to go over to Iraq.

A good friend of mine is a Major in the Marines. He is here state side now and he is recruiting reserves to go over to Iraq. He told me that the media is full of crap, that soliders can actual refuse to go over if they are in the reserves. They are so paranoid about the perception of this war, that they are not forcing people to honor their obligations.


I don't think you can decline if your called. My roommate and one of my closest friend got a called yesterday that he has a high chance of being shipped out in the next two weeks overseas (he's an Army reservist) to Iraq for 18 months.

[Desnudo]

Couldn't Ben have declined to goto Iraq? Even if you were called up, I thought you had to agree to go. I thought Rumsfeld made some rules that even if you are in the reserves you have to agree to go over to Iraq.

A good friend of mine is a Major in the Marines. He is here state side now and he is recruiting reserves to go over to Iraq. He told me that the media is full of crap, that soliders can actual refuse to go over if they are in the reserves. They are so paranoid about the perception of this war, that they are not forcing people to honor their obligations.

I'm not necessarily disputing your friend, it just seems a little strange, especially for the Marines, for someone to be able to choose whether they go or not. Unless he's talking about special cases or where they are on inactive reserve?

[flere-imsaho]

Couldn't Ben have declined to goto Iraq? Even if you were called up, I thought you had to agree to go. I thought Rumsfeld made some rules that even if you are in the reserves you have to agree to go over to Iraq.

There's no way to decline to go, even if you're in the Reserves or the National Guard. Believe me, if he could have, he would have. I'm afraid you've been misinformed.

A good friend of mine is a Major in the Marines. He is here state side now and he is recruiting reserves to go over to Iraq. He told me that the media is full of crap, that soliders can actual refuse to go over if they are in the reserves. They are so paranoid about the perception of this war, that they are not forcing people to honor their obligations.

I hate to say this, but your friend is lying to you. Any one of the following groups can (and are) be(ing) deployed overseas (these apply mostly to Army & Marine units):

Active Duty: The "regular" troops who are in the military full-time.

Ready Reserve: The "typical" Army/Marine Reserve, those folks who do the "1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year" worth of training. Comprised of ex-Active Duty soldiers and those who signed up only for the Reserves (i.e. for money for college).

National Guard: Typically for "retirees" from Active Service, but, like my brother, can be recruits straight from civilian life, for a number of reasons. Historically has been used for help on the domestic front (natural disasters, for instance), but due to the high level of training and experience from its members, has been very valuable in Iraq. When you hear of 50 year olds being sent to Iraq, they're usually Guard folks.

Individual Ready Reserve/Inactive National Guard: Different, but amount to the same thing. This is the status of people who have fulfilled their "active-duty" contract (typically 2, 4, or 6 years), but not their statutory 8-year committment to the force. Technically, someone could serve actively for 2 years, re-enter civilian life for 5 years and 11 months, and then be called back to service. Actually, there's no technically about it, I know people to whom this has happened.

Stop-Loss: Not a status, but a method by which a soldier's statutory 8-year committment to the force can be involuntarily and idefinitely extended.


Now, generally-speaking, what's supposed to happen is this:

1. War breaks out.
2. Active-duty troops deploy overseas and Ready Reserve troops take their place on U.S. bases.
3. Ready Reserve also deploy overseas if necessary.
4. National Guard take the place of Active & Reserve forces on U.S. bases if necessary, and deploy overseas if a combination of Active & Reserve forces isn't enough.
5. If the combination of Active, Reserve & Guard forces also isn't enough, IRR forces are called up from "retirement" to fill U.S. bases and/or deploy overseas.
6. If this isn't enough, stop-loss orders can keep those leaving the service from leaving.


This is where things get confusing. On one hand, given that all 6 steps have happened, one might think that we've just needed a lot more troops than we thought, and so a lot have gotten deployed to Iraq. However, the Army & Marines have a total of almost 700,000 active troops, only 150,000 of which are deployed to the Iraq area, so this isn't the case.

Then one might think that the reason so many Reservists & Guard soldiers, have gone to Iraq & Afghanistan is because of their experience in training. In a number of cases this is true, especially for those with previous combat experience. However, in other cases it's not true. For instance, the Maine National Guard has within its ranks, 80 mechanics. When my father spoke to Adujant General Libby of the Maine National Guard, he confirmed that these 80 were deployed to Iraq, but not as mechanics. They're deployed as regular infantry and do patrols. Despite the fact that mechanics are in real demand in Iraq (see my previous posts). There are other stories of tank units doing primarily foot patrols, etc.... So its unclear if this is the real "strategy" for deployment, either.


My own personal opinion is that there's no real strategy for making sure the right people are deployed for the right jobs in Iraq, vis-a-vis the Army & Marines. In my personal opinion a combination of the changing nature of deployments post-1991, the drawdown of troop strength under Bush Sr. & Clinton, the Rumsfeld initiatives for a "faster, leaner" Armed Forces, and severe miscalculations regarding the troop strength needed in Iraq has simply caused Army & Marines to scramble for combat-ready troops, resulting in a myriad of problems, most of which I've already posted about.


But, needless to say, you can't sign up for the Armed Forces and refuse to go to Iraq. Anyone who says so is lying. Recruiters have been known to lie.

[Dutch]

That seems highly unlikely that anybody can say "Thanks, but no thanks." but there are always exceptions, no doubt.

[Dutch]

Recruiters have been known to lie.

Most recruiters don't lie. They just don't tell the whole story. Kind of like ABC News. :)

[flere-imsaho]

Note that I never said "most". Unlike Fox News, I'm not prone to wild overgeneralizations. ;)

[Dutch]

Note that I never said "most". Unlike Fox News, I'm not prone to wild overgeneralizations. ;)

If you think any TV news isn't prone to "wild generalization" you've been bamboozled. :)

[flere-imsaho]

If you think any TV news isn't prone to "wild generalization" you've been bamboozled. :)

Curses! You mean I'm going to have to think for myself?! ;)

[Dutch]

Curses! You mean I'm going to have to think for myself?! ;)

The first time I read that I instictively thought of Obi Wan Kenobi. "These are not the droids you're looking for. You want to go home and rethink your life."

[JS19]

Hey guys, new member here, been roaming around for a while but finally decided to join, anyway....I'm in the Marine Reserves and i can tell you 100% that you have no option whatsoever in telling them you don't want to be deployed.

[flere-imsaho]

I haven't updated this for a while because it's all been more-or-less the same news.

But yesterday I received terrific news from Sarah, Ben's wife. She said he had called her from Kuwait and he and his unit are officially on their way home!

Today's the first day in a year I haven't had to check the news in the morning to see who died in Iraq overnight and hope it wasn't a National Guard soldier stationed in Ramadi.

Today is a good day.

Thanks to all for your good wishes, good thoughts, and donations. It has all been very much appreciated.

[stevew]

I haven't updated this for a while because it's all been more-or-less the same news.

But yesterday I received terrific news from Sarah, Ben's wife. She said he had called her from Kuwait and he and his unit are officially on their way home!

Today's the first day in a year I haven't had to check the news in the morning to see who died in Iraq overnight and hope it wasn't a National Guard soldier stationed in Ramadi.

Today is a good day.

Thanks to all for your good wishes, good thoughts, and donations. It has all been very much appreciated.

Great news.

[Radii]

Congrats, that is wonderful news!

[Raiders Army]

w00t! I'm glad that he's going to come home safely.

[John Galt]

That's fantastic.

[timmynausea]

Great news.

[jamesUMD]

Glad to hear he made it back safe and in 1 piece.

[terpkristin]

I haven't updated this for a while because it's all been more-or-less the same news.

But yesterday I received terrific news from Sarah, Ben's wife. She said he had called her from Kuwait and he and his unit are officially on their way home!

Today's the first day in a year I haven't had to check the news in the morning to see who died in Iraq overnight and hope it wasn't a National Guard soldier stationed in Ramadi.

Today is a good day.

Thanks to all for your good wishes, good thoughts, and donations. It has all been very much appreciated.

That's great!!! :)
/tk

[astrosfan64]

I haven't updated this for a while because it's all been more-or-less the same news.

But yesterday I received terrific news from Sarah, Ben's wife. She said he had called her from Kuwait and he and his unit are officially on their way home!

Today's the first day in a year I haven't had to check the news in the morning to see who died in Iraq overnight and hope it wasn't a National Guard soldier stationed in Ramadi.

Today is a good day.

Thanks to all for your good wishes, good thoughts, and donations. It has all been very much appreciated.

Very cool.

[Glengoyne]

Good News

[flere-imsaho]

In the news today, some coincidences. A soldier from Zion, Illinois, near where I live, was killed yesterday in Ramadi, where my brother until recently was stationed. Ramadi is now considered the most dangerous part of Iraq.

I re-post the entire article from the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/29/world/middleeast/29soldier.html?ei=5070&en=4061a84570eb9bf6&ex=1151726400&pagewanted=print) to remind anyone willing to be reminded of the challenges still faced by our men and women in Iraq.

Iraq War Ends Silently for One American Soldier
By DEXTER FILKINS
RAMADI, Iraq, June 28 — A soldier was dead, and it was time for him to go home.

The doors to the little morgue swung open, and six soldiers stepped outside carrying a long black bag zippered at the top.

About 60 soldiers were waiting to say goodbye. They had gathered in the sand outside this morgue at Camp Ramadi, an Army base in Anbar Province, now the most lethal of Iraqi places.

Inside the bag was Sgt. Terry Michael Lisk, 26, of Zion, Ill., killed a few hours before.

In the darkness, the bag was barely visible. A line of blue chemical lights marked the way to the landing strip not far away.

Everyone saluted, even the wounded man on a stretcher. No one said a word.

Sergeant Lisk had been standing near an intersection in downtown Ramadi on Monday morning when a 120-millimeter mortar shell, fired by guerrillas, landed about 30 paces away. The exploding shell flung a chunk of steel into the right side of his chest just beneath his arm. He stopped breathing and died a few minutes later.

The pallbearers lifted Sergeant Lisk into the back of an ambulance, a truck marked by a large red cross, and fell in with the others walking silently behind it as it crept through the sand toward the landing zone. The blue lights showed the way.

From a distance came the sound of a helicopter.

Death comes often to the soldiers and marines who are fighting in Anbar Province, which is roughly the size of Louisiana and is the most intractable region in Iraq. Almost every day, an American soldier is killed somewhere in Anbar — in Ramadi, in Haditha, in Falluja, by a sniper, by a roadside bomb, or as with Sergeant Lisk, by a mortar shell. In the first 27 days of June, 27 soldiers and marines were killed here. In small ways, the military tries to ensure that individual soldiers like Sergeant Lisk are not forgotten in the plenitude of death.

One way is to say goodbye to the body of a fallen comrade as it leaves for the United States. Here in Anbar, American bodies are taken first by helicopter to Camp Anaconda, the big logistical base north of Baghdad, and then on to the United States. Most helicopter traffic in Anbar, for security reasons, takes place at night. Hence the darkness.

In the minutes after the mortar shell exploded, everyone hoped that Sergeant Lisk would live. Although he was not breathing, the medics got to him right away, and the hospital was not far.

"What's his name?" asked Col. Sean MacFarland, the commander of the 4,000-soldier First Brigade.

"Lisk, sir," someone replied.

"If he can be saved, they'll save him," said Colonel MacFarland, who had been only a few yards away in an armored personnel carrier when the mortar shell landed.

About 10 minutes later, the word came.

"He's dead," Colonel MacFarland said.

Whenever a soldier dies, in Iraq or anywhere else, a wave of uneasiness — fear, revulsion, guilt, sadness — ripples through the survivors. It could be felt on Monday, even when the fighting was still going on.

"He was my best friend," Specialist Allan Sammons said, his lower lip shaking. "That's all I can say. I'm kind of shaken up."

Another soldier asked, "You want to take a break?"

Specialist Sammons said, "I'll be fine," his lip still shaking.

Sergeant Lisk's friends and superiors recalled a man who had risen from a hard childhood to become someone whom they counted on for cheer in a grim and uncertain place.

"He was a special kid," Specialist Sammons said. "He came from a broken home. I think he was divorced. I'm worried that it might be hard to find someone."

He said he would write a letter to the family — to whom it was not clear just yet.

Hours later, at the landing zone at Camp Ramadi, the helicopter descended. Without lights, in the darkness, it was just a grayish glow. With its engines still whirring, it lowered its back door.

The six soldiers walked out to the chopper and lifted Sergeant Lisk's body into it. The door went back up. The helicopter flew away.

The soldiers saluted a final time.

In the darkness, as the sound of the helicopter faded, Colonel MacFarland addressed his soldiers.

"I don't know if this war is worth the life of Terry Lisk, or 10 soldiers, or 2,500 soldiers like him," Colonel MacFarland told his forces. "What I do know is that he did not die alone. He was surrounded by friends.

"A Greek philosopher said that only the dead have seen the end of war," the colonel said. "Only Terry Lisk has seen the end of this war."

The soldiers turned and walked back to their barracks in the darkness. No one said a word.

[Passacaglia]

I missed the thread that mentioned that your brother was returning -- great news! I didn't know you lived near Zion -- I've heard that's a cool place.

[Dutch]

I missed this the first time as well, glad he is back and in one piece. I'm very glad for you and him.

Thanks.

[Grammaticus]

That was a touching article, my heart goes out to Terry Lisk and his family. I'm sure that you are going to feel relieved when you see your brother. That part is great news.

[flere-imsaho]

Yeah, Ben's been back for about two weeks and I talked to him a couple days after he landed when he was back in Maine with our folks. He sounded very happy, very relieved, to be back. According to my folks he's also got a whole host of stories he didn't tell them when he was over there, so as to not make them worry, that are even worse than the ones I related here.

Anyway, he and his wife are off to Minnesota so she can go back to school and he can find a job. He's going to take the opportunity to go through a full set of physical and neurological tests at the base up there, especially since he suffered so many concussions in Iraq. Just making sure that he gets whatever medical benefit he deserved for the injuries he suffered over there. And then it's on with his life!

[duckman]

Anyway, he and his wife are off to Minnesota so she can go back to school and he can find a job. He's going to take the opportunity to go through a full set of physical and neurological tests at the base up there, especially since he suffered so many concussions in Iraq. Just making sure that he gets whatever medical benefit he deserved for the injuries he suffered over there. And then it's on with his life!

Is is seperated from the service? If so, be sure to tell him to visit a DAV chapter soon to start work on his disablity paperwork.

[flere-imsaho]

No, his official committment goes through 2009, though his "active duty" committment ends in a year.

[Antmeister]

Yeah, Ben's been back for about two weeks and I talked to him a couple days after he landed when he was back in Maine with our folks. He sounded very happy, very relieved, to be back. According to my folks he's also got a whole host of stories he didn't tell them when he was over there, so as to not make them worry, that are even worse than the ones I related here.

Anyway, he and his wife are off to Minnesota so she can go back to school and he can find a job. He's going to take the opportunity to go through a full set of physical and neurological tests at the base up there, especially since he suffered so many concussions in Iraq. Just making sure that he gets whatever medical benefit he deserved for the injuries he suffered over there. And then it's on with his life!
Well it's good to know that he is back. Best wishes to you guys in the future.

[Raiders Army]

Anyway, he and his wife are off to Minnesota so she can go back to school and he can find a job. He's going to take the opportunity to go through a full set of physical and neurological tests at the base up there, especially since he suffered so many concussions in Iraq. Just making sure that he gets whatever medical benefit he deserved for the injuries he suffered over there. And then it's on with his life!
His unit should assign him to a Medical Hold Company. He'll stay on Active Duty and still draw pay while the Army fixes him up. He should not be discharged from Active Duty until he is either in the same condition that he was brought on Active Duty or the Army has exhausted all means of getting him back to that same condition.

[flere-imsaho]

Thanks RA, I'll be sure to mention that to him.