NHL reinstates Todd Bertuzzi

[Karim]

http://www.nhl.com/news/2005/08/232342.html

13 games and a playoff series for attempted murder. Nice.

[Karim]

Moore not ready to play...
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Colorado/2005/08/08/1164089-sun.html

[Galaxy]

The sad thing is, no one will likely remember with the lockout.

[Karim]

The sad thing is, no one will likely remember with the lockout.
True enough. That's kind of what I wanted to guage so I started a new topic instead of burying it in the NHL thread.

[Ryan S]

This is a good move by the NHL. It avoids the Bertuzzi incident getting tons of media attention during the season whenever his suspension ended. The NHL needs nothing but good publicity once the games start again.

[RPI-Fan]

http://www.nhl.com/news/2005/08/232342.html

13 games and a playoff series for attempted murder. Nice.

Attempted murder? Let's be reasonable here. I'm not saying the penalty is too light or too harsh, just commenting that your langauge isn't an accurate representation.

[Lathum]

Attempted murder? Let's be reasonable here. I'm not saying the penalty is too light or too harsh, just commenting that your langauge isn't an accurate representation.
I agree. I am in no way advocating what he did, but to call it attempted murder is a little much

[Flasch186]

What is this "hockey" you speak of?

[Honolulu_Blue]

This is a good move by the NHL. It avoids the Bertuzzi incident getting tons of media attention during the season whenever his suspension ended. The NHL needs nothing but good publicity once the games start again.
This was my thought exactly. You have the big announcement, CBA is signed. You have the draft. You have the big week of free agent madness. things are dying down a bit so you slip the Bertuzzi is back thing in. It's done. You don't have to make some new ruling about how many games there are to go. Then, when he is actually re-instated, you bring it up again. More clips of the attack. It's bad all around. From a marketing/NHL perspective this is the best move.

[Johnny93g]

this is bs....he missed the same season everyone missed, thats not punishment....bertuzzi will always be an asshole in my book

[JonInMiddleGA]

Works for me, I always felt like the suspension was too stiff in the first place.

That said, I think the NHL counting last season toward the original penalty is fairly bogus math on their part.

[k0ruptr]

total bullshit. he never served his full suspension.

[Pumpy Tudors]

total bullshit. he never served his full suspension.
How do you mean? He was suspended indefinitely.

[Buccaneer]

This is a good move by the NHL. It avoids the Bertuzzi incident getting tons of media attention during the season whenever his suspension ended. The NHL needs nothing but good publicity once the games start again.
...until the next time he attacks?

[Pumpy Tudors]

...until the next time he attacks?
Certainly, he's not stupid enough to do that kind of attack again, is he?

Is he?

[GMO]

So this is the NEW NHL!!

[SoxWin]

Certainly, he's not stupid enough to do that kind of attack again, is he?

Is he?

Don't put anything past him. I figured he'd have learned from the 10 gamer he got for leaving the bench to defend Jovo.

[SoxWin]

this is bs....he missed the same season everyone missed, thats not punishment....bertuzzi will always be an asshole in my book

Well, he was suspended from playing hockey anywhere in the world last year so he didn't miss the same season everyone did. I'm still shocked he didn't get more games (figured he'd get 15 more as the Avs/Nucks face off 3 times in the first 12 games but I guess not)

[SoxWin]

Moore not ready to play...
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Colorado/2005/08/08/1164089-sun.html

So what?

[Maple Leafs]

Well, he was suspended from playing hockey anywhere in the world last year so he didn't miss the same season everyone did. I'm still shocked he didn't get more games (figured he'd get 15 more as the Avs/Nucks face off 3 times in the first 12 games but I guess not)Not to mention he didn't get to play in the World Cup.

So he lost 20 games, about a million bucks, cost his team a shot at the Stanley Cup, missed the World Cup, had to humliate himself on national TV with that apology routine, had to defend himself against criminal charges, lost his reputation among hockey fans, and became a household name among non-hockey fans as a thug. Oh, and Moore's lawyer is practically wetting himself over the upcoming civil suit. All that for a sucker punch.

But he got off easy... the only fair thing to do would be to hang him in town square.

[Johnny93g]

Not to mention he didn't get to play in the World Cup.

So he lost 20 games, about a million bucks, cost his team a shot at the Stanley Cup, missed the World Cup, had to humliate himself on national TV with that apology routine, had to defend himself against criminal charges, lost his reputation among hockey fans, and became a household name among non-hockey fans as a thug. Oh, and Moore's lawyer is practically wetting himself over the upcoming civil suit. All that for a sucker punch.

But he got off easy... the only fair thing to do would be to hang him in town square.

dont have to hang him, just give him another 50 NHL games. I have no sympathy for anything he's gone through.

[Maple Leafs]

dont have to hang him, just give him another 50 NHL games. I have no sympathy for anything he's gone through.
You've changed, man... ever since you and Draft Dodger hooked up in that other thread, it's just not the same between us.

(Storms off, sobbing.)

[Fouts]

I don't watch hockey much, but was he the first guy to successfully slam somebody from behind?

[Honolulu_Blue]

I don't watch hockey much, but was he the first guy to successfully slam somebody from behind?
The first? No. There have been plenty other successful attacks from behind in NHL history.

[Fidatelo]

I will repeat what I've said many times in the past: if Moore doesn't get knocked out by the punch (which caused the ensuing collapse of both players to the ice and the broken neck), Bert gets a game misconduct and *maybe* a small suspension, and only because he was a repeat offender.

Punches from behind happen multiple times per season (or at least used to, it's likely to stop for awhile now). As usual, everyone reacts based on the outcome of something not the action itself.

[Karim]

Attempted murder? Let's be reasonable here. I'm not saying the penalty is too light or too harsh, just commenting that your langauge isn't an accurate representation.
Fair enough. Is pre-meditated intent to disable better? I'm assuming a bounty on someone involves more than a punch. Obviously I'm not impressed with the NHL's decision. It goes beyond this incident though, as most of their disciplinary decisions rarely make sense.

[Joe Canadian]

http://www.nhl.com/news/2005/08/232342.html

13 games and a playoff series for attempted murder. Nice.

Attempted Murder? You're joking right? I have no doubt the intent Bert had was to hurt Moore... but to say he was trying to kill him is a little out of bounds. Personally, and for those that disagree I'd like to see the reasoning, I severly doubt Bert was trying to hurt Steve as bad as he did. I'm not defending what he did, and I'm not defending the lack of punishment... but I find it ludacris that people are making it out that Bertuzzi wanted to either murder Steve Moore, end his career, or parlize him... in my eyes he meant to ruff him up, and it went to far.

And to make this situation out to be the worst in NHL history is rather shortsighted... there's been many instinces worse than this going back to the "glory days" of the NHL.

All that aside I think the NHL completly mis-handled this incident. IMO the suspension should have been extended an extra 20-30 games... no more, no less. And to add to that they should have handed that sentence, out months ago... long before a new CBA was reached. Why? Because the backlash they were going to get from this... because you know some would have a problem with it no matter what the NHL did... would be done and over with, and wouldn't be overshadowing the upcoming season, and the new CBA.

The NHL needs to really work on their punishments, I think we all agree on that. But IMO people are overreacting calling for Bertuzzi's head, and saying the NHL is a complete joke because of this.

[sterlingice]

I will repeat what I've said many times in the past: if Moore doesn't get knocked out by the punch (which caused the ensuing collapse of both players to the ice and the broken neck), Bert gets a game misconduct and *maybe* a small suspension, and only because he was a repeat offender.

Punches from behind happen multiple times per season (or at least used to, it's likely to stop for awhile now). As usual, everyone reacts based on the outcome of something not the action itself.
Well, exactly and this is the point that a lot of us have taken throughout this entire thing and suddenly we're condoning "attempted murder". I'm sure when Bert was in the penalty box, he was thinking "I'm going to kill Moore". Wait, no, he was thinking he would rough him up, but I'm sure if he knew how it turned out, he wouldn't have done it, if not for his own self interests.

SI

[Johnny93g]

I will repeat what I've said many times in the past: if Moore doesn't get knocked out by the punch (which caused the ensuing collapse of both players to the ice and the broken neck), Bert gets a game misconduct and *maybe* a small suspension, and only because he was a repeat offender.

Punches from behind happen multiple times per season (or at least used to, it's likely to stop for awhile now). As usual, everyone reacts based on the outcome of something not the action itself.

And if i shoot someone who doesnt die, i dont get charged with murder, whats your point

[Johnny93g]

You've changed, man... ever since you and Draft Dodger hooked up in that other thread, it's just not the same between us.

(Storms off, sobbing.)

HAHA....when the season starts, we can start our own 2005-06 Toronto Maple Leaf thread, i can see it now, greatest thread in FOFC history :cool:

[BrianD]

Attempted Murder? You're joking right? I have no doubt the intent Bert had was to hurt Moore... but to say he was trying to kill him is a little out of bounds. Personally, and for those that disagree I'd like to see the reasoning, I severly doubt Bert was trying to hurt Steve as bad as he did. I'm not defending what he did, and I'm not defending the lack of punishment... but I find it ludacris that people are making it out that Bertuzzi wanted to either murder Steve Moore, end his career, or parlize him... in my eyes he meant to ruff him up, and it went to far.

For not defending what he did, you really sound like you are defending what he did. It was an illegal hit on a defenseless player meant to cause injury. I'm sure it wasn't meant to cause as much injury as it did, but the resulting amount of injury was forseeable. A hit like that could easily knock someone out. That generally results in an unprotected fall with the potential for anyone skating right behind him to fall on him.


And to make this situation out to be the worst in NHL history is rather shortsighted... there's been many instinces worse than this going back to the "glory days" of the NHL.

It doesn't matter if it was the worst in NHL history. It was wrong and unforgivable in and of itself.

[RPI-Fan]

For not defending what he did, you really sound like you are defending what he did. It was an illegal hit on a defenseless player meant to cause injury. I'm sure it wasn't meant to cause as much injury as it did, but the resulting amount of injury was forseeable. A hit like that could easily knock someone out. That generally results in an unprotected fall with the potential for anyone skating right behind him to fall on him.


It GENERALLY results in that kind of fall??? That is the first time I ever saw a hockey player get knocked unconcsoius during the flow of play!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BrianD]

It GENERALLY results in that kind of fall??? That is the first time I ever saw a hockey player get knocked unconcsoius during the flow of play!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, knocking someone unconsious generally results in that kind of fall.

[Fidatelo]

And if i shoot someone who doesnt die, i dont get charged with murder, whats your point
Well, I don't necessarily agree with our justice system on that little rule either, but ok, point made.

[RPI-Fan]

Yes, knocking someone unconsious generally results in that kind of fall.

Since that kind of hit rarely happens in hockey, there's no way to say what kind of fall will "generally" result.

[BrianD]

Since that kind of hit rarely happens in hockey, there's no way to say what kind of fall will "generally" result.

Ok then, if a person is on ice skates and gets knocked unconsious, what kind of fall would you expect?

I would expect the fall to basically be "down", and unprotected...meaning no chance to brace the fall. I'm willing to listen to alternate theories though.

[RPI-Fan]

Ok then, if a person is on ice skates and gets knocked unconsious, what kind of fall would you expect?

I would expect the fall to basically be "down", and unprotected...meaning no chance to brace the fall. I'm willing to listen to alternate theories though.

The alternate theory is, he went out there extremely fired up, taking a penalty that he knew he'd probably get a gamer for, and when he saw the opportunity to make the hit, he lost control and things went horribly wrong.

[BrianD]

The alternate theory is, he went out there extremely fired up, taking a penalty that he knew he'd probably get a gamer for, and when he saw the opportunity to make the hit, he lost control and things went horribly wrong.

...which completely fails to address everything that I said.

[BrianD]

...which completely fails to address everything that I said.

dola

Go back and read what I wrote and then ask yourself if you are attacking what I actually wrote or just what you expected me to write.

[Joe Canadian]

For not defending what he did, you really sound like you are defending what he did.

Well if you see everything in black & white, I guess I am. But IMO there's a difference between defending the act, and saying that people are overreacting to what happened.

It was an illegal hit on a defenseless player meant to cause injury. I'm sure it wasn't meant to cause as much injury as it did, but the resulting amount of injury was forseeable. A hit like that could easily knock someone out. That generally results in an unprotected fall with the potential for anyone skating right behind him to fall on him.

I completely disgaree with this... the kind of hit Bertuzzi layed on Moore wasn't exactly unique. Hitting someone upside the head from behind isn't a new thing... what made this bad was the resulting fall and Bert landing on top of him. So to say Bert knew beforehand that when he hit Moore this would happen, to me is overreaching...

It doesn't matter if it was the worst in NHL history. It was wrong and unforgivable in and of itself.

In your opinion, I see it as a error in judgement. I'm not saying we should hug the guy for what he did, I think he should be punished... and punished more than what he got. What I don't agree with is people saying he's guilty of attempted murder, and he's the most evil guy on earth and that he should never be forgiven for what he did.

If you call that defending his actions, well I guess I am. :rolleyes:

[Joe Canadian]

Ok then, if a person is on ice skates and gets knocked unconsious, what kind of fall would you expect?

I would expect the fall to basically be "down", and unprotected...meaning no chance to brace the fall. I'm willing to listen to alternate theories though.

Looking back, sure you can say that was bound to happen... taking into consideration the physicis of it. But to assume Bert thought about that in the heat of the moment, is wrong IMO.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

With some exceptions, most of the people who saw this as a some kind of attempted murder/seriously injure by Bertuzzi have neither watched much hockey let alone played it. I have played it for many years, and I am not sure I count how many times I have been hit from behind (deserved or not) and this is playing in rec leagues (and sometimes in non-contact leagues when tempers flare). I neither fell down unconscious or was seriously injured.

The simple fact is hockey is a brutal and physical game. And the punch from behind has been going on for 100 years at the professional and amateur level. Some may not like it but that is just the way it is. Unfortunately here, you had a bad combination of geometry and power which contributed to a once in a blue moon injury. Should Bertuzzi pay, yes, and he did. To ostracize him like some, no. I have no doubt that Bertuzzi had no intention of seriously hurting Moore.

Beyond anything Bertuzzi has done are the perpetrators of stick swinging (see Dino Ciccarelli, Marty McSorley, Tony Granato). These events carry a much higher degree of serious injury. Yet Bertuzzi has been singled out as being much worse than that. Too me that truly is unbelievable. Frankly, throwing a punch is nowhere near swinging a stick.

Karim, your attempted murder comment was uncalled for. If you don't like it, don't play or watch hockey. Simple as that. We won't miss you. If it means less people will care about the game or watch it fine. We'll go back to the original six teams, I'm fine with that.

Compared to the longest suspensions handed out, many of the long ones involving stick swinging:

Longest Suspensions
Dan Maloney, Detroit Red Wings, banned from playing in Toronto for 2 years, November 1975.
Marty McSorley, Boston Bruins, 23 games, February 2000.
Gordie Dwyer, Tampa Bay Lightning, 23 games, September 2000.
Dale Hunter, Washington, 21 games, May 1993.

Tom Lysiak, Chicago Blackhawks, 20 games, October 1983.
Brad May, Phoenix Coyotes, 20 games, November 2000.

Todd Bertuzzi, Vancouver Canucks, 20 games (13 regular season, 7 playoff games), March 2004.
Eddie Shore, Boston Bruins, 16 games, December 1933.
Maurice Richard, Montreal Canadiens, 15 games (3 regular season, 12 playoff games), March 1955.
Wilf Paiement, Colorado Rockies, 15 games, October 1978.
Dave Brown, Philadelphia Flyers, 15 games, November 1987.
Tony Granato, Los Angeles Kings, 15 games, February 1994.
Wayne Maki, St. Louis Blues, suspended for 30 days, September 1969.
Ted Green, Boston Bruins, 13 games, September 1969.
Andre Roy, Tampa Bay Lightning, 13 games, April 2002.
Brantt Myhres, San Jose Sharks, 12 games, February 1999.
Matt Johnson, Los Angeles Kings, 12 games, November 1998.
Ron Hextall, Philadelphia Flyers, 12 games, May 1989.
David Shaw, New York Rangers, 12 games, October 1988.
Owen Nolan, San Jose Sharks, 11 games, February 2001.
Tie Domi, Toronto Maple Leafs, 11 games (3 playoff games, 8 regular season games), Game 4 of the 2001 Eastern Conference semifinals.
Jimmy Mann, Winnipeg Jets, 10 games, January 1982.
Ruslan Salei, Anaheim Mighty Ducks, 10 games, October 1999.
Scott Niedermayer, New Jersey Devils, 10 games, March 2000.

You will see that Betuzzi is at the high end of the scale. Throw in a lost season in Europe and endorsements that are available today, and like Bettman said in his ruling (although I would guess most critics here haven't even read it), Bertuzzi has paid enough.

[BrianD]

I'm also not saying that he should be guilty of attempted murder. I am saying that pulling someone off-balance and then punching them in the back of the head is worthy of a big punishment. I don't think he got a suspension that was too big. I could even see the argument that no time was really served during the lockout.

There was no way to know that this kind of injury would result from the hit, but there was a real chance for injury. The whole point of the hit was retaliation...to hurt the guy some and send a message. I've never understood the mentality that it is ok to go out with the intention of hurting someone but just a little bit. A major injury is going to result eventually, and shame on the NHL for not putting a stop to this before it happened.

Hockey is a violent sport, but at least there are rules in place to keep the violence generally under control. This kind of hit can't be allowed to happen...just like you can't be allowed to punch a NASCAR driver while he is strapped into his car, and you shouldn't be able to pull a Warren Sapp or Charles Martin move on the football field.

[Johnny93g]

With some exceptions, most of the people who saw this as a some kind of attempted murder/seriously injure by Bertuzzi have neither watched much hockey let alone played it. I have played it for many years, and I am not sure I count how many times I have been hit from behind (deserved or not) and this is playing in rec leagues (and sometimes in non-contact leagues when tempers flare). I neither fell down unconscious or was seriously injured.

The simple fact is hockey is a brutal and physical game. And the punch from behind has been going on for 100 years at the professional and amateur level. Some may not like it but that is just the way it is. Unfortunately here, you had a bad combination of geometry and power which contributed to a once in a blue moon injury. Should Bertuzzi pay, yes, and he did. To ostracize him like some, no. I have no doubt that Bertuzzi had no intention of seriously hurting Moore.

Beyond anything Bertuzzi has done are the perpetrators of stick swinging (see Dino Ciccarelli, Marty McSorley, Tony Granato). These events carry a much higher degree of serious injury. Yet Bertuzzi has been singled out as being much worse than that. Too me that truly is unbelievable. Frankly, throwing a punch is nowhere near swinging a stick.

Karim, your attempted murder comment was uncalled for. If you don't like it, don't play or watch hockey. Simple as that. We won't miss you. If it means less people will care about the game or watch it fine. We'll go back to the original six teams, I'm fine with that.

Compared to the longest suspensions handed out, many of the long ones involving stick swinging:

Longest Suspensions
Dan Maloney, Detroit Red Wings, banned from playing in Toronto for 2 years, November 1975.
Marty McSorley, Boston Bruins, 23 games, February 2000.
Gordie Dwyer, Tampa Bay Lightning, 23 games, September 2000.
Dale Hunter, Washington, 21 games, May 1993.

Tom Lysiak, Chicago Blackhawks, 20 games, October 1983.
Brad May, Phoenix Coyotes, 20 games, November 2000.

Todd Bertuzzi, Vancouver Canucks, 20 games (13 regular season, 7 playoff games), March 2004.
Eddie Shore, Boston Bruins, 16 games, December 1933.
Maurice Richard, Montreal Canadiens, 15 games (3 regular season, 12 playoff games), March 1955.
Wilf Paiement, Colorado Rockies, 15 games, October 1978.
Dave Brown, Philadelphia Flyers, 15 games, November 1987.
Tony Granato, Los Angeles Kings, 15 games, February 1994.
Wayne Maki, St. Louis Blues, suspended for 30 days, September 1969.
Ted Green, Boston Bruins, 13 games, September 1969.
Andre Roy, Tampa Bay Lightning, 13 games, April 2002.
Brantt Myhres, San Jose Sharks, 12 games, February 1999.
Matt Johnson, Los Angeles Kings, 12 games, November 1998.
Ron Hextall, Philadelphia Flyers, 12 games, May 1989.
David Shaw, New York Rangers, 12 games, October 1988.
Owen Nolan, San Jose Sharks, 11 games, February 2001.
Tie Domi, Toronto Maple Leafs, 11 games (3 playoff games, 8 regular season games), Game 4 of the 2001 Eastern Conference semifinals.
Jimmy Mann, Winnipeg Jets, 10 games, January 1982.
Ruslan Salei, Anaheim Mighty Ducks, 10 games, October 1999.
Scott Niedermayer, New Jersey Devils, 10 games, March 2000.

You will see that Betuzzi is at the high end of the scale. Throw in a lost season in Europe and endorsements that are available today, and like Bettman said in his ruling (although I would guess most critics here haven't even read it), Bertuzzi has paid enough.

Yes, hockey is violent, but this was an attack, with bad consuquenses.......missing a season of european hockey is not punishment....

also, attacking Karim, for that comment is pretty low...no, it wasnt attempted murder, it was an attack. I think hockey could do alot better without you as a fan then Karim, who i know actually cares about the sport

[LionsFan10]

If you don't like it, don't play or watch hockey. Simple as that. We won't miss you. If it means less people will care about the game or watch it fine. We'll go back to the original six teams, I'm fine with that.

Isn't this almost exactly what Jeremy Roenick said? :p :D

[bhlloy]

Bertuzzi deserved longer certainly. Bettman is dodging the issue... I think another 10-20 games sounds about right to me. But the hand wringing about hockey amuses me sometimes. Was there really more intent to injure in the Bertuzzi incident than when Donovan Darius put his arm across Robert Ferguson's neck? How about a pitcher putting a fastball straight at a pitchers head?

[Joe Canadian]

Bertuzzi deserved longer certainly. Bettman is dodging the issue... I think another 10-20 games sounds about right to me. But the hand wringing about hockey amuses me sometimes. Was there really more intent to injure in the Bertuzzi incident than when Donovan Darius put his arm across Robert Ferguson's neck? How about a pitcher putting a fastball straight at a pitchers head?

We have a winner!!!!

[TroyF]

I think Bertuzzi should have been suspended for life. I'm tired of the people defending his action. I don't care if it happens all the time. Someone is going to die from it. If we can make a statement now to make it stop, we need to do that.

All that said, I was pretty willing to give him a second chance. Not cheer for him. Not wish him well. Not even enjoy watching his talent. I was willing to just forgive it and move on.

Then he opened up his mouth again today. He's continues to play this off as HE'S the one with the problems. Hey, Todd, you nearly killed another human being. At the least you probably ended his hockey career. Maybe it's not a good idea to keep blabbing about how tough you and your family have had it. Maybe you shouldn't talk about your sleepless nights when the guy you sucker punched spent a year in an F'n halo.

And maybe you shouldn't talk about how poor little old you is under a microscope on TV when your mistake happened, as if it would have been less vile had we only seen Steve Moore's face after the incident.

What a scumbag. I hope Moore takes him for everything in the civil trial. The fact the NHL and the Canadian courts have the spines of slugs, maybe a civil court will make Bertuzzi truly pay for being the first class prick he is.

Romo no longer player football (thank God for that). It'll be a great day in the hockey world when this bastard stops lacing up hockey skates.

[SackAttack]

He punched him from behind, grabbed him, and rode him down headfirst into the ice.

How anybody can look at that and come away with "Oh, it was just intent to injure" is beyond me.

[Maple Leafs]

Once again, it would be great to talk about this without the dramatics. He didn't "nearly kill" anyone. There is zero suggestion that Moore was ever in any danger of dying. He didn't have a halo, let alone for a full year. I honestly don't know it you guys are just making this up for the spectacle of it, or if you're getting such one-sided reporting in Colorado that you really think this stuff is true.

Bertuzzi did a stupid, thuggish thing and Moore suffered a serious injury. There, was that so hard? It's possible to criticize the guy without pulling hysterical facts out of the air.

[sterlingice]

Bertuzzi did a stupid, thuggish thing and Moore suffered a serious injury. There, was that so hard? It's possible to criticize the guy without pulling hysterical facts out of the air.
Yes, but without the absurd hyperbole that conjures up the image of him going Last Boy Scout on Moore, it doesn't seem nearly as bad http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

SI

[TroyF]

Once again, it would be great to talk about this without the dramatics. He didn't "nearly kill" anyone. There is zero suggestion that Moore was ever in any danger of dying. He didn't have a halo, let alone for a full year. I honestly don't know it you guys are just making this up for the spectacle of it, or if you're getting such one-sided reporting in Colorado that you really think this stuff is true.

Bertuzzi did a stupid, thuggish thing and Moore suffered a serious injury. There, was that so hard? It's possible to criticize the guy without pulling hysterical facts out of the air.


OK, Moore had a halo for a few days and then went down to a full neck brace for over a year. My bad.

And don't give me this "he wasn't in any danger of dying" bunch of BS. He was nailed from behind and knocked out cold. His face was then driven into the ice. Maybe Moore wasn't in danger of dying, but many people in that situation would be.

You'll have to cut me some slack if I'm a little emotional after seeing the guy who did that despicable act come out and try to play himself off as the vicitm in all of this. I'm not going to apologize for the fact that disgusts me.

Hockey will be better off for this dumb ass leaving the league. In order to be a hockey fan I'll have to stomach him until he does retire.

This has nothing to do with me being an Avs fan. If the roles were reversed, I'd be speaking like this against Moore. (and please don't compare what Bertuzzi did to Moore's "cheap" shot earlier in the month. Not only was that cheap shot not penalized during the game, it wasn't penalized on review either.) And his shot was a minor thing compared to what Bertuzzi did.

Like I said, I was really ready to just let it drop until today. After hearing Bertuzzi try and play himself off as the martyr, I truly want to see him out of this league.

And no. . . I don't want to see him get injured, have a cheap shot happen to him, or anything else. I'd just like to see him suck and be forced into retirement. Nobody, not even this scumbag, should ever have to go through what Moore has went through. Not even the dirtbag who put him through it.

[JeffR]

(and please don't compare what Bertuzzi did to Moore's "cheap" shot earlier in the month. Not only was that cheap shot not penalized during the game, it wasn't penalized on review either.)

So the league has the spine of a slug when it decides Bertuzzi has been punished enough, but is the font of all wisdom when it decides Moore's elbow on Naslund was OK?

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Seeing how Troy is an Avs fan explains it all. If May supposedly put a bounty on Moore which encouraged this action as Moore claims, I don't see you railing against his signing by Colorado.

Hmm, I would be interested by your take on the Claude Lemieux cheap shot on Kris Draper a few years back. I am sure you were talking that up as an accident and/or part of the rough play in hockey like MOST Avs fans were at the time (a complete double standard) - no life time suspension there. In fact, if you had read my post, you would see that the NHL has never handed out a life time suspension let alone a longer one than Bertuzzi got for much dangerous on-ice activities such as stick swinging to the head.

Nobody here is apologizing for Bertuzzi, just saying he has served his time based on past practice and how the game is played.

And the hyperbole and complete misrepresentation of the facts has got to stop. Moore didn't almost die, ok, can we lay that to rest? If he had "almost died," then the punishment would have and should have been greater. Just like if Moore had gotten up off the ice the punishment would have and should have been lighter. Bettman listened to the medical testimony at the hearing and gave the punishment. The NHL sets its own rules, and made its own decision.

Moore will have his day in the courts, as it should be. Don't confuse court justice with NHL rules regarding suspensions.

[Maple Leafs]

You can't bury Bertuzzi because Moore "could have" been killed, any more than you can let him off the hook because Moore "could have" walked away without any injury at all. What happened is what happened.

There are two facts here that people need to keep in mind:
- Moore was seriously injured (two cracked vertebrae, concussion, lacerations)
- Many fans and media outlets have vastly overstated his injuries (he wasn't paralyzed, there was no spinal cord trauma, etc)

I'm tired of this being some sort of religious war where you have to either accept the hyped-up story that Moore was on death's door, or else be considered to be defending Bertuzzi. It's nonsense.

[Karim]

Karim, your attempted murder comment was uncalled for. If you don't like it, don't play or watch hockey. Simple as that. We won't miss you. If it means less people will care about the game or watch it fine. We'll go back to the original six teams, I'm fine with that. I have no doubt that Bertuzzi had no intention of seriously hurting Moore. The second point is more important and is where the division of opinion comes in. Legally he was never charged with attempted murder. Fine. But I feel there was every intent on seriously hurting Moore. Right or wrong, that's what I feel, judging not only by the action but with the call for the 'bounty'. "I'm going to f*** you up!" may just be macho aggression intent on intimidating the opponent but when you actually do it, in my mind questions arise as to intent. Why didn't he just fight to send a message? He probably couldn't do enough damage with a fist is my guess.

I've seen my share of violence with the Calgary/Edmonton hey days in the 80s. I remember a bench clearing brawl (remember those?) where there weren't enough officials to handle everyone. Dave Brown continued to pound Jim Kyte while Kyte lay on the ice and clearly didn't want any more of it. Kyte became deaf in one ear as a result. Dave Manson's raspy voice was the result of vocal chord damage from a punch to the throat in a fight. I have no problems with fighting and cheered loudly when Simon beat the crap out of Cowan who was running Iginla. The difference is these guys went toe to toe willingly.

[Karim]

In fact, if you had read my post, you would see that the NHL has never handed out a life time suspension let alone a longer one than Bertuzzi got for much dangerous on-ice activities such as stick swinging to the head.
And that makes it right? Many people (myself included) don't understand the leniency the NHL continues to show in disciplinary matters. I guess I'm disappointed that with all this talk of the 'new NHL', I thought they'd be more vigilant in this regard and set new precedents.

[TroyF]

For the record, when Lemiuex hit Draper, I wanted him gone for the entire playoffs and a full suspension for the next season.

Not sure if my thoughts are in print on this board, but I was disgusted by it and wanted him gone.

As with Romo on the Broncos, it was hard seeing Lemiuex with the cup. It truly sucks when good things happen to bad people. It sucks worse when they happen to play on a team you cheer for. (I love the Rams as well as the Broncos, but I couldn't cheer for Little if someone paid me to do it)

I think you can go back and see that I was on record that year as to saying I hoped Vancouver would win the Cup if the Avs didn't. I loved their style of play, liked Marc Crawford from his days as the Avs coach, and wanted to see Canada get a Cup (and I thought the best chance was the Canucks)

Say whatever the hell you want about my opinions, they aren't focused on "my team." I don't hold other players to different standards and let guys on the teams I cheer for get free passes. I HATE Bill Romanowski. I HATE Claude Lemioux. and I HATE Todd Bertuzzi.

[Karim]

I normally don't agree with Damien Cox but I think he's bang on in this article:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1124142611444&call_pageid=1044442959412&col=1044442957278

[Fidatelo]

Why didn't he just fight to send a message? He probably couldn't do enough damage with a fist is my guess.
Actually, he tried to fight Moore, Moore wouldn't fight back. That's why he punched him from behind, Moore wouldn't face him.

[Johnny93g]

Actually, he tried to fight Moore, Moore wouldn't fight back. That's why he punched him from behind, Moore wouldn't face him.

Moore had already fought that night....I dont remember with who, but is he supposed to fight everyone on the team?

[Fidatelo]

Moore had already fought that night....I dont remember with who, but is he supposed to fight everyone on the team?
I know, and whether he should have or should not have fought isn't my point. I was just pointing out that to say Bertuzzi should have fought properly instead of how he did was unfair to Bertuzzi in the sense that he tried that, and was unable to cajole Moore willingly into it.

I'm still convinced his punch from behind was intended to force Moore to turn and fight, not to knock him out or otherwise do severe damage.

[Johnny93g]

I know, and whether he should have or should not have fought isn't my point. I was just pointing out that to say Bertuzzi should have fought properly instead of how he did was unfair to Bertuzzi in the sense that he tried that, and was unable to cajole Moore willingly into it.

I'm still convinced his punch from behind was intended to force Moore to turn and fight, not to knock him out or otherwise do severe damage.

your probably right, either that, or to hurt him....i dont believe his intent was to seriously hurt Moore, but i dont think intent really matters in this case

[SoxWin]

Why didn't he just fight to send a message? He probably couldn't do enough damage with a fist is my guess.



Well then your guess is wrong.

Moore refused repeated attemts by Bertuzzi, Ruutu, and May to fight. If he hadn't, the incident wouldn't have happened, not that that absolves Bert in any way, shape, or form.

[SoxWin]

Moore had already fought that night....I dont remember with who, but is he supposed to fight everyone on the team?

Matt Cooke, aka the punching bag. No, he didn't have to fight everyone, but fighting a legit middleweight like Ruutu or May would have ended the stupidity.

[Johnny93g]

Matt Cooke, aka the punching bag. No, he didn't have to fight everyone, but fighting a legit middleweight like Ruutu or May would have ended the stupidity.

sounds an awful lot like your making excuses for Bertuzzi.....Cooke didnt have to fight, maybe if Cooke turned down Moore, one of the others would of had a shot.....putting the blame on Moore like this is dumb.....skating away should not result in being attacked

[SoxWin]

I'm not making excuses for him at all. Like it or not though, that's been the code of hockey forever. Do you honestly think Bert would have attacked him if Moore had fought him face to face? I don't, but whatever, it's over and done with.

[klayman]

I'm still convinced his punch from behind was intended to force Moore to turn and fight, not to knock him out or otherwise do severe damage.
I agree. In all my years of playing hockey, I have punched and been punched in the back of the head several times, and never had it do severe damage.

[Maple Leafs]

A judge in Colorado has dismissed Moore's lawsuit:
http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=139625&hubname=

Sounds like a reasonable decision -- Moore and his lawyers were really stretching credibility by looking to have the case tried in Colorado. The judge essentially said that the suit should be filed in BC, without commenting on the legitimacy of the claims.

[Honolulu_Blue]

A judge in Colorado has dismissed Moore's lawsuit:
http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=139625&hubname=

Sounds like a reasonable decision -- Moore and his lawyers were really stretching credibility by looking to have the case tried in Colorado. The judge essentially said that the suit should be filed in BC, without commenting on the legitimacy of the claims.
I agree. I don't know much about jurisdictional law in Colorado, but what I remember from law school, Colorado was not the jurisdiction to hear this claim. I wonder if Moore will persue the claim in BC. I don't know much of anything about Canadian law, but I would imagine it would be a much tougher battle with a smaller payout at the end.

[klayman]

I agree. I don't know much about jurisdictional law in Colorado, but what I remember from law school, Colorado was not the jurisdiction to hear this claim. I wonder if Moore will persue the claim in BC. I don't know much of anything about Canadian law, but I would imagine it would be a much tougher battle with a smaller payout at the end.
But it's not about the money...it's about justice! Right? :)