The call in the NC State game

[lynchjm24]

What a joke. That referee should have the rest of the year off.

Not quite as bad as the US/Mexico game last night, but that was disgusting.

[RPI-Fan]

What the hell are you talking about? That is the right call. Any contact with the kicker calls for Running Into.... If he had called the 15 yard penalty, sure, that's awful, but this WAS the right call.

[lynchjm24]

It is most certainly not the right call in that situation. The play was over, the defender slipped and the kicker went out of his way to keep moving towards him after his follow through.

I don't really give a crap who wins, but there is the letter of a rule and the spirit of a rule. If that is a penalty then it should have been a personal foul when the VT defender stepped on the chest of the NC State player in the first half when he slipped getting up.

[RPI-Fan]

That IS the spirit of the rule. If you aren't going to block the kick, DON'T put yourself in a position to make contact with the kicker.

In fact, that type of situation is the EXACT reason the "Running into..." rule exists!!!

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

The refs decided the race and not the players.

[RPI-Fan]

The refs decided the race and not the players.

So you're saying that if it was a 35-7 game, you wouldn't care about the call?

That is some seriously flawed thinking.

[lynchjm24]

That IS the spirit of the rule. If you aren't going to block the kick, DON'T put yourself in a position to make contact with the kicker.

In fact, that type of situation is the EXACT reason the "Running into..." rule exists!!!

The kicker has some responsiblity that long after the kick is off to avoid the contact. The contact was minimal and the it wasn't a situation where there would have been anything close to contact if he hadn't slipped.

If that's a penalty then there should have been a personal foul on 49 from VT after he stepped on the receiver's chest - that was partially intentional. It's the exact same situation.

[RPI-Fan]

The kicker has some responsiblity that long after the kick is off to avoid the contact. The contact was minimal and the it wasn't a situation where there would have been anything close to contact if he hadn't slipped.

If that's a penalty then there should have been a personal foul on 49 from VT after he stepped on the receiver's chest - that was partially intentional. It's the exact same situation.

Ok, fine, I'm willing to give you the second point. Like you mentioned, I didn't want either teams to win.

As someone who has refereed in the past, though, I always appreciate a correct call in a tough situation, which is exactly what that was.

[CentralMassHokie]

I obviously can't comment in an unbiased fashion, but that's the correct call in that situation.

I'm never happy with college football refs. ACC refs are marginally better than the Big East refs I'm used to, but there was a ton of missed holds on both sides that annoyed the hell out of me.

I'd like to see the reviewed fumble play again -- it looked to me like the ball was knocked out when his hand was at its apex, before it was moving forward -- but that's probably just wishcasting.

[lynchjm24]

Ok, fine, I'm willing to give you the second point. Like you mentioned, I didn't want either teams to win.

As someone who has refereed in the past, though, I always appreciate a correct call in a tough situation, which is exactly what that was.

I'm a referee now, and watch NCAA tape every Tuesday night. One of the officials on our board reffed the Sugar Bowl last year. I can guarantee 95% of the officials that I work with would agree with me that it wasn't a penalty.

[RPI-Fan]

I'm a referee now, and watch NCAA tape every Tuesday night. One of the officials on our board reffed the Sugar Bowl last year. I can guarantee 95% of the officials that I work with would agree with me that it wasn't a penalty.

If they wanted different calls based on time of game and score, they could put that in the rulebook. It's not there, and the penalty was correct.

[Vegas Vic]

I'm an NSCU fan and alum. That call did not cost us the game.

For those of you unfamiliar with Wolfpack football under Chuck Amato -- for a short while tonight, we saw a new N. C. State team come out and play in a dominating fashion. Soon thereafter, they reverted back to their familar lack of discipline and boneheaded mistakes. Personal foul penalties (after stopping Va. Tech on third downs) leading to scores; fair catching a punt on the one yard line (WTF?), etc., etc. The Wolfpack played well enough to win this game comfortably, yet they found a way to lose it.

In spite of being loaded with NFL caliber talent, these are the same problems that plagued this team last year. I just don't understand how Amato can't correct this continued lack of gametime discipline.

[lynchjm24]

If they wanted different calls based on time of game and score, they could put that in the rulebook. It's not there, and the penalty was correct.

It's never a penalty to me, I never mentioned the situation.

Watch the kicker when you see the replay. The reason why the announcer was saying it was after the kick is because it was SO LONG after the kick. Of course you are right, they are all after the kick. That kicker was not in a position where he couldn't defend himself. He kept moving forward even after he regained his balance.

[RPI-Fan]

It's never a penalty to me, I never mentioned the situation.

It is most certainly not the right call in that situation


Watch the kicker when you see the replay. The reason why the announcer was saying it was after the kick is because it was SO LONG after the kick. Of course you are right, they are all after the kick. That kicker was not in a position where he couldn't defend himself. He kept moving forward even after he regained his balance.

With regard to that comment, I think it's just a difference of opinion which is, of course, something that will always happen. However, I was just listening to the call at first, and assumed the official made a call that was way off the board. When I watched the replay (on DVR, a couple of times), I was not surprised at all . Seemed like any other RITK call, to me, actually -- looked like exactly the kind of play they made that rule for.

[lynchjm24]

With regard to that comment, I think it's just a difference of opinion which is, of course, something that will always happen. However, I was just listening to the call at first, and assumed the official made a call that was way off the board. When I watched the replay (on DVR, a couple of times), I was not surprised at all . Seemed like any other RITK call, to me, actually -- looked like exactly the kind of play they made that rule for.


I guess I did say situation. I thought you were referring to the poster that mentioned that the refs didn't let the players decide it.

Vegas Vic is 100% right, NC State should be thinking about bringing in Tom Coughlin to help :rolleyes:

Anyway, to quote the great Ron Burgundy; agree to disagree.

[digamma]

I'm an NSCU fan and alum. That call did not cost us the game.

For those of you unfamiliar with Wolfpack football under Chuck Amato -- for a short while tonight, we saw a new N. C. State team come out and play in a dominating fashion. Soon thereafter, they reverted back to their familar lack of discipline and boneheaded mistakes. Personal foul penalties (after stopping Va. Tech on third downs) leading to scores; fair catching a punt on the one yard line (WTF?), etc., etc. The Wolfpack played well enough to win this game comfortably, yet they found a way to lose it.

In spite of being loaded with NFL caliber talent, these are the same problems that plagued this team last year. I just don't understand how Amato can't correct this continued lack of gametime discipline.
Interesting, VV. As an outsider (albeit an ACC fan), I always thought the Pack were emulating Amato's persona (with regard to penalties, and specifically personal foul penalties)--and that, to a certain extent, the Wolfpack faithful ate it up.

How much criticism does he catch from fans regarding the undisciplined play?

[gstelmack]

Interesting, VV. As an outsider (albeit an ACC fan), I always thought the Pack were emulating Amato's persona (with regard to penalties, and specifically personal foul penalties)--and that, to a certain extent, the Wolfpack faithful ate it up.

How much criticism does he catch from fans regarding the undisciplined play?
He's catching more and more heat. The questions are already being asked if it was Phillip Rivers rather than Chuck Amato that was responsible for the nice four-year start to Amato's reign. These bonehead mistakes are clearly on the coach's shoulder. He made this a focal point in the offseason, even bringing in extra refs to the practices, and it sure didn't show last night.

But that Running into the Kicker call was a joke. There has to be some notion of "normal follow-through" for the kicker. That kicker kicked the ball, came down, took the normal step, and then like two more. He was several yards in front of where the ball was placed for the kick. It was only on the last step that he walked into the falling blocker, and then played the "ow my knee hurts!" card. It's not the first time that I've seen a call like that I've hated, and it probably won't be the last.

I'll also wonder, though, whether or not the early personal fouls had anything to do with it. You've got the refs LOOKING for you to make late hits, etc now, so they see the kicker go down they're going to assume it was another late shot from State, so they throw the flag. If State had played a cleaner game, maybe a different judgement is made?

[Logan]

I'm an NSCU fan and alum. That call did not cost us the game.

For those of you unfamiliar with Wolfpack football under Chuck Amato -- for a short while tonight, we saw a new N. C. State team come out and play in a dominating fashion. Soon thereafter, they reverted back to their familar lack of discipline and boneheaded mistakes. Personal foul penalties (after stopping Va. Tech on third downs) leading to scores; fair catching a punt on the one yard line (WTF?), etc., etc. The Wolfpack played well enough to win this game comfortably, yet they found a way to lose it.

In spite of being loaded with NFL caliber talent, these are the same problems that plagued this team last year. I just don't understand how Amato can't correct this continued lack of gametime discipline.

Holy crap...that's like a carbon copy of how I feel about Rutgers football.

[Swaggs]

I was actually impressed with NC State's defense while watching the Marcus Vick-cast on ESPN.

Was anyone else that was watching this game on ESPN waiting for the crew to announce that, after the game, Marcus Vick would be flying to New Orleans to single-handedly drink up all the flood waters and then turn the ruins into a city of gold? Don't get me wrong, Vick did what he had to do to win and managed the game well for his first start, but he went 10-21 for 108 yards and got 31 yards rushing on 12 carries, and 24 of that came on one play. The announcers should have been giving a lot more love to the VT defense, because they won the game.

Anyway, I think NC State looked just as good VT. It seemed like one of those matchups that if they played ten times, they'd each win five times. I watched a lot of football this weekend and I tend to think both teams will have pretty good years.

[TroyF]

I have mixed feelings about the call. I thought it was bad at first, but the TIVO kind of convinced me it wasn't quite as bad as I thought.

I don't think NCState would have went down the field and scored a TD anyway, but stranger things have happened.

I'll agree on the announcers. I was one of the people who watched the game because of Vick (along with that NCState D-Line). Having said that, I got sick of it really quick. It's bad enough moving him to sainthood when he had the ball. What got me was all of the "next time VaTech has the ball we'll see Vick" garbage. Geez. . . let it go.

[Wolfpack]

Chuck's definitely catching a lot of hell for for the discipline issues. A new coordinator is in charge, so that rules that out. That leaves either the coach or the players or both as the source of the problem. Chuck can pull a lot of talented recruits from Florida, but it's becoming obvious that either he or they or both have problems in the area of self-discipline with respect to the players. They actually beat VaTech in most phases of the game last night, but they were dead from the neck up at times.

Oddly, a lot of State fans are chewing out Blackman for fumbling the ball like he did, even going so far as to say he should have gone to ground--what? What running back in their right minds decides to just "go down" without being tackled? If he did that, they'd have ripped him for ducking or some such nonsense. They don't seem to appreciate that he got absolutely crushed from two directions and would have done a good job holding on to the ball in that hit.

They also don't understand not heaving it to the end zone on the last play, though I think it wasn't going to happen as Davis was about to get hit before just a few beats after he did get rid of it. He wouldn't have had a chance to hang it up there. They may also have gambled that VT was going to hang back, opening things up closer in and then hoping that one of the guys could juke his way in or else lateral to someone who could. (Now that I think about it, this seems likely...throw to Hall and then have him lateral to someone running behind him the other way while the defense is chasing Hall's direction. Too bad VT's DB played CF under it and picked it rather easily.)

As for the penalty on the field goal, yeah, that was ticky-tack, but given State's propensity for stupidity at the worst moment, was a virtual certainty to happen. I'm amazed the fan base isn't carping about what happened in the '87 Peach Bowl when a VT player (according to State fans) "faked" an injury to stop the clock with three seconds left, allowing them to kick the winning field goal, and that this is some sort of continuance of karma with VT carried forward from that game. A lot of people are still sore about that. (State fans are notorious for blaming officiating for costing them games in just about any sport. It's not undeserved as the officiating in the ACC is crappy at best, but we seem particularly prone to blaming officiating for losses.)

[lynchjm24]

Oddly, a lot of State fans are chewing out Blackman for fumbling the ball like he did,

There are a lot of stupid fans.

[Toddzilla]

IMO, it was vindication after that miserable "no-fumble" call when the NCSU QB was sacked and fumbled the ball, which turned into a VT touchdown. That call was overturned and ruled an incomplete pass which IMO was a travesty. The running-into-the-kicker penaltyl was just a makeup call. :)

[VPI97]

I didn't think the running into the kicker penalty would have made a top 5 list of controversial calls in the game. No one I talked to after the game (State or VT) disputed that call...the fumble, forward lateral play or the over the top personal foul/facemask penalties, sure....but the running into the kicker? That one's simple...don't touch the kicker, period. That's something every player learns in junior high.

[ISiddiqui]

Holy crap...that's like a carbon copy of how I feel about Rutgers football.
NFL Caliber talent?

Are you smoking that wacky weed again, Logan ;).

[Vegas Vic]

Interesting, VV. As an outsider (albeit an ACC fan), I always thought the Pack were emulating Amato's persona (with regard to penalties, and specifically personal foul penalties)--and that, to a certain extent, the Wolfpack faithful ate it up.

How much criticism does he catch from fans regarding the undisciplined play?

The criticism is growing. The undisciplined play has been an ongoing problem. Also, some of Amato's gametime coaching decisions have cost NCSU some games that they should have won (Ohio State and Florida State for example).