Is it ever OK to root for your favorite team to lose a game?

[albionmoonlight]

There are some situations in which I could see an argument that it is OK to root against your team. Most of these apply to the pros, but the last one could apply to a college team as well.

1.) Your favorite team is out of the playoff picture. On the last game of the season, they are playing your second favorite team, who will get into the playoffs with a win. Do you root for your second favorite team?

2.) Your favorite team is tied for the worst record in the league. On the last game of the season, they are playing the other team with the worst record and the loser will get the #1 pick in the draft. The top pick in the upcoming draft looks like the next coming of John Elway and Michael Jordan wrapped into one. Do you hope to lose to get the #1 pick?

3.) Your favorite team is out of the playoffs. The lead player for the opposition is the anchor of your fantasy team. Do you hope for him to have a good game, even if it means that your team loses?

4.) Your coach sucks in your humble opinion, but the owner/AD of your favorite team just can't seem to pull the trigger and fire his dumb ass. Your team is out of the postseason picture. Do you hope that you really stink up the joint during the last couple of games so that the owner/AD will be forced to fire the coach?

[VPI97]

I may root for them to do something that will lessen their likelihood of winning (i.e. starting young QB for experience), but I'll never root for one of my teams to lose.

[miked]

What a sad day when fantasy players dictate whether people root for their favorite teams. You aren't much of a fan if you hope your team gets buried so you can win your fantasy matchup...

[Lathum]

The number one pick scenerio is the only one I would go with.

[Lathum]

And to add another one, you could actually want your team to lose so they get a different matchup in the playoffs that favors them more.

[rkmsuf]

this thread needs more trout

[BigJohn&TheLions]

If the Tigers were playing a team and a loss would mean the Yank-mees would miss the playoffs... :D

Also, if a loss might mean benching Joey... :D

[spleen1015]

I will root for the Red Sox to beat my favorite team if a Red Sox win means the Yankees miss the playoffs.

[bhlloy]

Definitely the number one draft pick scenario, also possibly the last scenario. Especially in soccer, I have no problem with my team mailing in a couple of games to get a particularly bad manager fired.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

I have no problem with my team mailing in a couple of games to get a particularly bad manager fired.
I don't like it when players "mail it in." I want them to fight.

When I played a season of semipro football I was on an awful team. In fact, we were in the weakest league in Michigan. We came in last. I was the worst player on the team. So in fact, I was the worst player on the worst team in the worst league in the state.

We played a game against the second ranked team in the state. At the start of the second half we were down 44-0 and one of the guys from the other team tried to shake my hand. I told him to wait until after the game, because if I got a shot at him I was going to take it. He told me to take it easy. I pointed to the scoreboard and said "How can I take it easy when the score is 44-0?" He laughed and agreed. We lost 73-0 because in the second half they took it easy on us.

BTW... I was so bad at DT that I was only in for two plays in a 73-0 blowout loss. The rest of the season I only played on special teams (until my left knee gave out with five games left.)

[JonInMiddleGA]

#2 makes sense to me, and #4 makes absolute sense to me.

[sovereignstar]

I couldn't help but laugh at the Vikings after around the 1st quarter. Does that count?

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

The number one pick scenerio is the only one I would go with.
Ditto! I remember 1997-98 when The Falcons, Colts et ala were jockying for #1 overall to get Peyton. Those two Falcons fans with Brown Bags over their heads were classic.

[Crapshoot]

5. If your hated enemy is playing for a plaoyff spot, and is behind the team you're playing against currently.

In Italy, Lazio fans, who hate Juventus, actually rooted for Inter Milan against their team - because they wanted Inter to win the Scudetto as opposed ot Juventus. It happens fairly often in Europe. :D

[condors]

1.) Your favorite team is out of the playoff picture. On the last game of the season, they are playing your second favorite team, who will get into the playoffs with a win. Do you root for your second favorite team?

nope keep on cheering my team on

2.) Your favorite team is tied for the worst record in the league. On the last game of the season, they are playing the other team with the worst record and the loser will get the #1 pick in the draft. The top pick in the upcoming draft looks like the next coming of John Elway and Michael Jordan wrapped into one. Do you hope to lose to get the #1 pick?

#1 pick in the draft is always some great guy before he laces them up but Jordan wasn't the first pick in the draft so i will take my chances

3.) Your favorite team is out of the playoffs. The lead player for the opposition is the anchor of your fantasy team. Do you hope for him to have a good game, even if it means that your team loses?

nope my fantasy teams are just for fun

4.) Your coach sucks in your humble opinion, but the owner/AD of your favorite team just can't seem to pull the trigger and fire his dumb ass. Your team is out of the postseason picture. Do you hope that you really stink up the joint during the last couple of games so that the owner/AD will be forced to fire the coach?

This i can sorta relate i am no fan of the Phillies current manager (but i was a Bowa guy) while i would have no problem if he gets fired i still pull for the Phillies to win no matter what.

[MJ4H]

I will never root for my favorite team to lose. Ever. I don't care the reasons. If it isn't meant to be, it isn't.

[Honolulu Blue]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the most obvious one:

6. If you're betting against your favorite team.

Pride is fun, but money, generally, is more fun.

[rkmsuf]

Is it ok to root for them to tie?

[bhlloy]

I don't like it when players "mail it in." I want them to fight.

When I played a season of semipro football I was on an awful team. In fact, we were in the weakest league in Michigan. We came in last. I was the worst player on the team. So in fact, I was the worst player on the worst team in the worst league in the state.

We played a game against the second ranked team in the state. At the start of the second half we were down 44-0 and one of the guys from the other team tried to shake my hand. I told him to wait until after the game, because if I got a shot at him I was going to take it. He told me to take it easy. I pointed to the scoreboard and said "How can I take it easy when the score is 44-0?" He laughed and agreed. We lost 73-0 because in the second half they took it easy on us.

BTW... I was so bad at DT that I was only in for two plays in a 73-0 blowout loss. The rest of the season I only played on special teams (until my left knee gave out with five games left.)

I've played on two 0-8 football teams. I feel your pain.

What I was trying to get at was if a manager is a shitty manager and generally loses the plot, if it's my team I'm perfectly happy to sacrifice a couple of performances to get him fired.

An example, my fiancee is a huge Newcastle fan and although she was delighted to win on the weekend (and for Shearer and Owen to both score inparticular), we were both kinda disappointed as we both think Souness is a shocking manager and an asswipe to boot, and a humiliating defeat to his old team would almost certainly have been the final nail in his coffin.
To each his own I guess... for me the worst thing in the world is to have a complete idiot at the helm of your favourite team. Everybody has seen it happen at one point or another.

[MJ4H]

DOLA: ok unless something bizarre like they were playing prisoners who would be killed if they lost or something like that.

[Radii]

5. If your hated enemy is playing for a plaoyff spot, and is behind the team you're playing against currently.



YUP.

The only enemy i hate to this level though is Duke, and it would be extremely rare when a team beating UNC to vault themselves over Duke would really hurt Duke that much.


If the Panthers were #1 in the NFC South no matter what, and they played Tampa Bay in the last week of the season, and a Tampa Bay win would keep Atlanta out of the playoffs, I don't think I would actively root *for* Tampa Bay, but it would most definitely lessen the pain of a loss if Carolina did happen to lose.

Similar sentiments apply in any Cubs/Braves situation that could result in the Braves not making the playoffs.

[sterlingice]

When I played a season of semipro football I was on an awful team. In fact, we were in the weakest league in Michigan. We came in last. I was the worst player on the team. So in fact, I was the worst player on the worst team in the worst league in the state.
So what? You got paid to play football, didn't you? So quit yer grousin' :D

SI

[st.cronin]

2 & 4 I have succombed to - but I felt dirty after.

[sterlingice]

In my mind, order of "okayness". Ones not included aren't ok- you know like rooting against your team for fantasy gains :p

DOLA: ok unless something bizarre like they were playing prisoners who would be killed if they lost or something like that.
In the end, it's only sports so life and death matter a bit more. Unless maybe they're Cardinal fans... no, even then ;) Still, kindof a rare one here.

And to add another one, you could actually want your team to lose so they get a different matchup in the playoffs that favors them more.
Definitely- this is to the benefit of your team. Nothing wrong with this at all.

2.) Your favorite team is tied for the worst record in the league. On the last game of the season, they are playing the other team with the worst record and the loser will get the #1 pick in the draft. The top pick in the upcoming draft looks like the next coming of John Elway and Michael Jordan wrapped into one. Do you hope to lose to get the #1 pick?
It's a meaningless game that could really help your team in the future- very low short term pain versus possible long term success. Sure.

5. If your hated enemy is playing for a plaoyff spot, and is behind the team you're playing against currently.
Sure, it sucks to see your team lose, but if it means your hated rival stays home during the playoffs and is no better off than you, bitter spite is a great reason :)

6. If you're betting against your favorite team.

Pride is fun, but money, generally, is more fun.
This is just a bad, bad idea. Don't bet in games involving teams you have too much of a vested emtional interest in. It'll skew your judgement.

4.) Your coach sucks in your humble opinion, but the owner/AD of your favorite team just can't seem to pull the trigger and fire his dumb ass. Your team is out of the postseason picture. Do you hope that you really stink up the joint during the last couple of games so that the owner/AD will be forced to fire the coach?
This is a tough one, but sometimes it has to be done.

1.) Your favorite team is out of the playoff picture. On the last game of the season, they are playing your second favorite team, who will get into the playoffs with a win. Do you root for your second favorite team?
Another sticky wicket- but I could see it. Last year, to have the playoffs where it's the Cards, Yanks, and BoSox in the NCS- that was like rooting hell. All teams I dislike but thankfully there was Houston. Not only that but Beltran was with them so it was like having the hometown team there a little, too.

SI

[Galaril]

Sure. Ask a Browns fan or Detroit Lions fan or the LA Clippers? Historical 1st round draft pick storage sites.

[Honolulu Blue]

6. If you're betting against your favorite team.

This is just a bad, bad idea. Don't bet in games involving teams you have too much of a vested emtional interest in. It'll skew your judgement.

I don't get too excited when my favorite teams win, and I don't get too worked up when they lose. Maybe I'm unusual that way.

[sterlingice]

I don't get too excited when my favorite teams win, and I don't get too worked up when they lose. Maybe I'm unusual that way.

I was referring more to having much more information about your team and succombing to paralysis by analysis (as much "I've seen my team blow it a lot in the 4th quarter so I'll pick against them" as it is "I know my boys are going to win today, I can feel it")

SI

[Honolulu Blue]

I was referring more to having much more information about your team and succombing to paralysis by analysis (as much "I've seen my team blow it a lot in the 4th quarter so I'll pick against them" as it is "I know my boys are going to win today, I can feel it")

I don't do this either.

Good advice though.

[Daimyo]

1.) Your favorite team is out of the playoff picture. On the last game of the season, they are playing your second favorite team, who will get into the playoffs with a win. Do you root for your second favorite team?
In these situations I still root for my favorite team, but view it as a win-win situation and don't get bummed out at all if they lose.

2.) Your favorite team is tied for the worst record in the league. On the last game of the season, they are playing the other team with the worst record and the loser will get the #1 pick in the draft. The top pick in the upcoming draft looks like the next coming of John Elway and Michael Jordan wrapped into one. Do you hope to lose to get the #1 pick?
I can see this one, although usually its not that clear cut. In retrospect I'm extremely happy the Colts got the #1 in 98, but at the time #1 or #2 seemed win-win.

3.) Your favorite team is out of the playoffs. The lead player for the opposition is the anchor of your fantasy team. Do you hope for him to have a good game, even if it means that your team loses?
No way. You're not much of a fan of your team if you do that IMO. One of my pet peeves is going to a bar to watch football on Sunday and all the people rooting for individual players in the name of fantasy football instead of watching/rooting for teams. I especially hate it when people celebrate injuries because the player is on the opponents fantasy team or they have the backup...

4.) Your coach sucks in your humble opinion, but the owner/AD of your favorite team just can't seem to pull the trigger and fire his dumb ass. Your team is out of the postseason picture. Do you hope that you really stink up the joint during the last couple of games so that the owner/AD will be forced to fire the coach?
I don't think its a good reason at all. Even when the Pacers had Isiah Thomas and the Colts had Mora it never even crossed my mind to actually root against them so he'd get fired. Wouldn't you instead root for the coach to get it/the team to gel so you have hope for the future instead of wanting him to fail so you can take a chance on a new unknown?

[MIJB#19]

Never.

[rkmsuf]

So hypothetically what if say in 1996 Drew Bledsoe runs over your foot leaving the stadium and you exclaim "You f*ck! I hope you lose next week" and then proceed to root for the Jets the next Sunday.

Is that wrong?

[albionmoonlight]

I had the idea that, for the last game or two of the season, it might be OK to root against your team for a very tangible and definite draft reward. And even that felt a bit icky and questionable to me. And it certainly was a necessary evil.

Bill Simmons apparently now enjoys rooting against the Celtics for the majority of the basketball season just so they can be likely to get a few more ping pong balls in the lottery. He even has a name for it: fantanking.

Based on this thread, I can't see most people on this board going for that line of thinking.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070202_magazine

[panerd]

I like Simmons and am even in the minority on this board who doesn't think he has jumped the shark at all. But this last column is so anti-true sports fan that I was very dissappointed. Simmons used to seem like the type of guy that would be sitting next to me in the late 90's at Bengal games cheering for Pelfrey to kick a field goal and knock Minnesota out of the playoffs. Now he seems no different than some of my Mizzou friends who will bet on KU football and one idiot who acutally laid a couple thousand dollara down on Nebraska a few years ago against the Tigers. (This guy is only worth that much also!)

[Pumpy Tudors]

I don't remember this thread from the first time around, but I'll say this: A lot of people play fantasy sports for big money. If you can make big bucks because of your fantasy QB torching your favorite team, well, I think that can sway things.

I'm a big Broncos fan, but the Broncos are just for fun. The bottom line is that I don't really get much from their wins. Sure, I'm a happy fan for a while, but do they share their paychecks with me? Do they come over to my house and celebrate their wins with me? Do they even know who I am from 1500 miles away?

Given the choice, I'd take the money.

[Oilers9911]

If the loss will be beneficial in terms of the long term success of the team then hell yes it is ok to root against them.

[cthomer5000]

Yeah, im very big on the "greater good" argument. Rooting against Herman Edwards' Jets was worth it.

[Logan]

I had the idea that, for the last game or two of the season, it might be OK to root against your team for a very tangible and definite draft reward. And even that felt a bit icky and questionable to me. And it certainly was a necessary evil.

Bill Simmons apparently now enjoys rooting against the Celtics for the majority of the basketball season just so they can be likely to get a few more ping pong balls in the lottery. He even has a name for it: fantanking.

Based on this thread, I can't see most people on this board going for that line of thinking.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070202_magazine

To be fair, he originally wanted the team to play poorly so Rivers would be fired. And it's not like he's not a huge fan who hasn't supported them through the tough times. This is just too much for him, kind of like how I have been with the Knicks for the past few years.

I don't have a problem with it in pro sports, especially when it's painfully clear that your squad has no shot. Never, ever root for your college team to lose though. That's just disgraceful.


Quick sidestep, and I apologize for going off topic, but I almost started a whole thread about this last night but chose not to (mostly because I figured the Simmons haters would crap all over it with the "jumped the shark comments).

I am one of his biggest fans out there, but if you're Bill Simmons, and you have bashed Peyton Manning for years, always bringing up how he can't win the big one (even saying how Tee Martin was able to, when Manning couldn't), and you write a week of SB preview articles from Miami, and you pick Rex Grossman's Bears over Peyton's Colts because, once again, you say Peyton will choke, you cannot, under any circumstances, not put up a post-SB article where you take your lumps for getting it wrong.

ON TOP OF THAT...if for some reason you couldn't get to your computer right away to say that, you cannot, under any circumstances, wait another 4 days to post an article.

ON TOP OF THAT...under no circumstances can that article be a BASKETBALL BLOG without a single mention of the Super Bowl. If you're not ready for it, fine, but put a little disclaimer at the top saying "Check back Friday for my SB wrap-up article, where you will read about me eating crow."

Just a bad, bad job out of him. I don't blame the people who have been jumping all over him in that new ESPN Conversation thing...

[MrBigglesworth]

Bill Simmons is like one of your funny buddies. And, like one of your funny buddies, he is wrong on pretty much every prediction he ever makes. I mean, this guy lost to his know-nothing wife in picking football games this year. You don't read him for his insights, you read him because he is funny.

Oh, and I think you can root for whatever you think would be best for your team. Unless you are at the game, you definitely can not root against your team at your own stadium.

[Maple Leafs]

1.) Your favorite team is out of the playoff picture. On the last game of the season, they are playing your second favorite team, who will get into the playoffs with a win. Do you root for your second favorite team?

Do people actually have second favorite teams?

[Antmeister]

Do people actually have second favorite teams?

Apparently. I don't quite understand, but there are a number of people on this board that do. Some people fall back on this second favorite team if their other team sucks. I have stuck with the Chargers and Padres through thick and thin and never imagined rooting for the flavor of the year.

[vtbub]

I don't remember this thread from the first time around, but I'll say this: A lot of people play fantasy sports for big money. If you can make big bucks because of your fantasy QB torching your favorite team, well, I think that can sway things.

I'm a big Broncos fan, but the Broncos are just for fun. The bottom line is that I don't really get much from their wins. Sure, I'm a happy fan for a while, but do they share their paychecks with me? Do they come over to my house and celebrate their wins with me? Do they even know who I am from 1500 miles away?

Given the choice, I'd take the money.

This is the best reason I can think of why I stopped doing fantasy football. When we care more about how player x is doing than the team we root for, then there is something wrong, IMHO.

[Logan]

Bill Simmons is like one of your funny buddies. And, like one of your funny buddies, he is wrong on pretty much every prediction he ever makes. I mean, this guy lost to his know-nothing wife in picking football games this year. You don't read him for his insights, you read him because he is funny.

He proved his point with that. If I remember correctly, he said something along the lines of "People like me, we sit here all week, analyzing numbers, talking to other people, trying to gain insight, flip back and forth between our decisions before finally making the pick...are we overanalyzing this stuff? Maybe its not that complex. Maybe someone without any knowledge could do a better job."

And she did.

[Logan]

This is the best reason I can think of why I stopped doing fantasy football. When we care more about how player x is doing than the team we root for, then there is something wrong, IMHO.

I still play, but it has definitely lost some of its luster for this reason. Late October, I was at a bar before a Sunday night college football game, so obviously it was full of people watching the NFL games. LT scored on maybe a 20 yard TD run, and this guy who was wearing a Jets jersey went absolutely nuts celebrating. I mean, jumping up and down, screaming at the top of this lungs, high-fiving random people. That's when I heard him say something like "He's going to have a huge day for me."

About a half hour later, the Jets scored a TD. His celebration wasn't even close to being at the same level.

[Maple Leafs]

Apparently. I don't quite understand, but there are a number of people on this board that do. Some people fall back on this second favorite team if their other team sucks. I have stuck with the Chargers and Padres through thick and thin and never imagined rooting for the flavor of the year.
When my wife and I first started dating she wasn't into sports. She knew she had to cheer for the Leafs if she wanted to spend any time with me, but at one point she asked if she was allowed to have a second favorite team. I told her she could, as soon as I was allowed to have a second favorite girlfriend. I think she got the point.

[SuperGrover]

Honestly, I've of the mind set that unless you're playing a rival, it doesn't matter what your record ends up at if you aren't in the playoffs. So, once I'm pretty sure my team is out i root for them to drop all there games, but be competitive the entire time.

This obviously applies to the pros only.

[Antmeister]

When my wife and I first started dating she wasn't into sports. She knew she had to cheer for the Leafs if she wanted to spend any time with me, but at one point she asked if she was allowed to have a second favorite team. I told her she could, as soon as I was allowed to have a second favorite girlfriend. I think she got the point.

LOL.....that is hardcore.

[albionmoonlight]

I think that it is OK to have a second favorite team.

My favorite team is the Saints. But, having roomed with a huge Steelers fan, I got into them. They are my second favorite team. The distance between #1 and #2 is huge, but I do have a #2 team.

And, come March Madness, I am totally into the flavor of the month.1 I want the Tar Heels to win it all, but otherwise I am just going to cheer for whatever mid-major Cinderellas happen to make it to the Sweet Sixteen and beyond.


1 March.

[Eaglesfan27]

I think that it is OK to have a second favorite team.

I do, too. I've been down here in Louisiana for 7 years now and have been to a few Saints' home games. I like them. I liked them a few years ago when they weren't good. I like them even more now that they have added Reggie Bush. I see nothing wrong with rooting for them as a second team. Of course, I was rooting for the Eagles in the playoff game and I'll always root for the Eagles over the Saints anytime they meet.

[molson]

Honestly, I've of the mind set that unless you're playing a rival, it doesn't matter what your record ends up at if you aren't in the playoffs. So, once I'm pretty sure my team is out i root for them to drop all there games, but be competitive the entire time.

This obviously applies to the pros only.

I guess that's true in a pratical sense, but in the NFL, isn't a 9-7 non-playoff team closer to where you want to be than a 4-12 team?

Anyway, as a Celtics fan, I have a morbid facination with the Celtics losing streak. It isn't even about the lottery or firing Rivers (I mean, even if they lose every game the rest of the year they still only have a 25% chance at the top pick and a guy who may or may not work out). I just think it would be fun somehow to reach 24 or 25 games.

[Logan]

I think that it is OK to have a second favorite team.

My favorite team is the Saints. But, having roomed with a huge Steelers fan, I got into them. They are my second favorite team. The distance between #1 and #2 is huge, but I do have a #2 team.

And, come March Madness, I am totally into the flavor of the month.1 I want the Tar Heels to win it all, but otherwise I am just going to cheer for whatever mid-major Cinderellas happen to make it to the Sweet Sixteen and beyond.


1 March.

Did you really just use a footnote?

[albionmoonlight]

Did you really just use a footnote?

Actually, I edited my post to add a footnote.

One can't be too careful about proper citation.

[LloydLungs]

I'm on board with the "coach firing" reasoning. There is NOTHING worse than having a coach that is just good enough to hover around .500 and stay employed, but not good enough to win anything important -- sports purgatory. In those cases you wouldn't mind seeing the bottom fall out one year just to be able to get rid of the guy.

[SuperGrover]

I guess that's true in a pratical sense, but in the NFL, isn't a 9-7 non-playoff team closer to where you want to be than a 4-12 team?

But it doesn't matter. You're gonna be the same bunch the next season no matter if you are 4-12 or 9-7.

The question is, would you rather get lucky and win a bunch of games to end up 9-7 even tough your talent level is 6-10? Or would you rather get unlucky and drop a couple extras and get a better draft pick? i mean, if you have 6-10 talent you have 6-10 talent. Cathc my drift.

P.S.-Sorry to hear you're a Celtics fan. My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family.

[rkmsuf]

Ping: Remaining Celtics fans.

[Antmeister]

I think that it is OK to have a second favorite team.

My favorite team is the Saints. But, having roomed with a huge Steelers fan, I got into them. They are my second favorite team. The distance between #1 and #2 is huge, but I do have a #2 team.

And, come March Madness, I am totally into the flavor of the month.1 I want the Tar Heels to win it all, but otherwise I am just going to cheer for whatever mid-major Cinderellas happen to make it to the Sweet Sixteen and beyond.


1 March.

I guess we must have different definitions. When I think of someone with a second favorite team, I think of someone who roots for this team when the other team sucks. So they will put on the team's gear, watch all their games, while ignoring the team that is struggling because they started out so poorly.

If you are rooting for different teams during March Madness because your team is knocked out, that is definitely not my definition of picking the flavor of the month. You are just picking a team to root for while watching the rest of the tournament. Much like others due when their team is knocked out of the NFL Playoffs. Flavor of month is what band wagon fans do. In other words they pick the hottest team and proclaim that they are fans of that team.

[Icy]

I do but only when i want a coach firedor when the team is underperforming and i want the players/GM/coach to learn the hard way.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I guess we must have different definitions. When I think of someone with a second favorite team, I think of someone who roots for this team when the other team sucks. So they will put on the team's gear, watch all their games, while ignoring the team that is struggling because they started out so poorly.
I have second favorite teams in the NBA and NHL. In the NBA, I'm a Memphis fan first and a Utah fan second. Utah currently has the fourth-best record in the NBA. Memphis is the absolute worst. Still, if someone asks me which team is my favorite, I'll say Memphis. Utah is just another team that I like a lot. They're not a backup for when the Grizzlies are terrible.

The same goes for the NHL. New Jersey first, Pittsburgh second. When I go to a Penguins game, if they're not playing against New Jersey, I'm all for Pittsburgh. When the Devils came to town a couple of months ago, though, I wore my Devils jersey and cheered for New Jersey nonstop.

If I could have my way, I'd like to see my teams finish #1 and #2 in their conference or division, but there's always a clear idea of who I want to be #1 and who I want to be #2.

[MrBigglesworth]

He proved his point with that. If I remember correctly, he said something along the lines of "People like me, we sit here all week, analyzing numbers, talking to other people, trying to gain insight, flip back and forth between our decisions before finally making the pick...are we overanalyzing this stuff? Maybe its not that complex. Maybe someone without any knowledge could do a better job."

And she did.

He proved that someone with no knowledge could beat HIM.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

So what? You got paid to play football, didn't you? So quit yer grousin' :D

SI
This was semi-pro. We didn't get paid. In fact, we had to pay to play (fields had to be rented.) I paid a total of about $20... It was supposed to be about $200, but in the second week of practice the coaches came out with You guys need to pay up. We have a total from all of you of only $20! Since the total was John $20, the rest of the team nada... I never paid another dime! :D