WWLG? (Where Will Leinart Go)

[Samdari]

I am giddy to see actual football topics on the front page of this forum.

I will add my own. Lets assume that Heisman Matt ends the year as he began, the obvious #1 NFL pick. Who do you see ending up at the top of the draft, and do they need a QB? The niners are an excellent candidate to finish with the worst record in the draft, but obviously, they would not take him.

We cannot appear to go with the ever reliable "Bengals" as an answer, so I'll go with that other reliable answer.

The Cardinals. I think Kurt Warner will have a fine year, but is obviously not going to be around long enough for the Cardinals to ascend to the playoffs (their O-Line needs too much work). They just cannot seem to run either, so I cannot see him lasting the year with defenses able to just tee off on him.

I'll go so far as to predict a top 5:

1) Arizona, Leinart
2) Houston, D'Brickashaw Ferguson
3) San Francisco, Jimmy Williams, CB, VPI
4) Tennessee, RB DeAngelo Williams
5) Detroit, WR Santonio Holmes, Ohio St

In deference to TroyF, let me say I really wanted to put the Packers on the list. Just cannot see them not getting a few cheap wins from playing division games.

[henry296]

I think Cleveland is another possibility despite their win over Green Bay. The AFC North is very solid and they might only win 1 division game this year. They did draft Charlie Frye, but I don't think they would pass on Leinhart.

[Honolulu_Blue]

5) Detroit, WR Santonio Holmes, Ohio St

Heh!! This is a joke, right? Not the Lions finishing up as the 5th worst team in the league (a strong possibility), but them drafting ANOTHER wide receiver in the first round.

[WSUCougar]

Cleveland

[Samdari]

I think Cleveland is another possibility despite their win over Green Bay. The AFC North is very solid and they might only win 1 division game this year. They did draft Charlie Frye, but I don't think they would pass on Leinhart.

I forgot Cleveland (like most Browns fans are trying to do). They should be 3rd/4th on that list. They won't take a running back, that much we know.

[Mustang]

Well, not alot of teams will look to draft a QB high. Teams with potential needs that probably aren't going to be good this year - Cleveland, Baltimore, Tennessee, Arizona... then you have your teams like Miami, Dallas and Detroit...

I'm going to say Cleveland but, to tell you the truth, it would not surprise me if Baltimore had a top 3 pick...

[WSUCougar]

it would not surprise me if Baltimore had a top 3 pick...
No way, not with that defense. I think Akili Smith could play QB for them and they'd still not be a Top 3 pick. ;)

[Anthony]

Miami will trade up to get Leinhart - if they don't suck on their own to begin with to earn the #1 overall.

[Samdari]

Heh!! This is a joke, right? Not the Lions finishing up as the 5th worst team in the league (a strong possibility), but them drafting ANOTHER wide receiver in the first round.

Do I think they might finish in the top 5? Yes, although I do think Cleveland is a much more likely possibility.

Is them taking another WR with a top pick a joke? Gosh, I certainly hope so.

[Mustang]

No way, not with that defense. I think Akili Smith could play QB for them and they'd still not be a Top 3 pick. ;)

D gave up what, 49 points total last 2 games.. If the defense doesn't hold up their end of the deal, that offense isn't scoring squat. Especially since it doesn't seem Lewis is right...

[flere-imsaho]

It'll be funny if SF gets the #1 two years in a row. :)

I do like the Arizona angle, but I think it's probably safer to say that someone's going to trade into #1 to get Leinart. I think Baltimore & Miami are very good candidates there. Cleveland's a possibility, but I think Dilfer's going to do just fine and they'll decide the price for Leinart isn't worth it.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

If SF does get the #1 pick, and Smith shows nothing, would SF be tempted to go with the guy they would have taken if he was there and trade Smith, or would they trade down? I know the cap would kill them.

Hey, then they could use the top pick in '07 on a QB too!

[Samdari]

It'll be funny if SF gets the #1 two years in a row. :)

I do like the Arizona angle, but I think it's probably safer to say that someone's going to trade into #1 to get Leinart. I think Baltimore & Miami are very good candidates there. Cleveland's a possibility, but I think Dilfer's going to do just fine and they'll decide the price for Leinart isn't worth it.

Why wouldn't Arizona just draft Leinart if they got #1. He is considered the best of the QB prospects since (I think) Peyton Manning, better than all the #1 QB's since. With no young QB of note there, I just could not see Green passing on Leinart.

I would find it highly amusing if SF got the #1. I thought Smith was the riskiest #1 QB pick ever. He had great intangibles, yes, but his physical skills were not overwhelming, and QBs who excel in "gimicky" college offenses tend to have trouble adjusting to the NFL. Meanwhile, even if Smith was the sure thing, had to be #1 last year, his NFL potential was rated below Leinart's by everyone. So they in essense would have to pass up Leinart for Smith.

[PackerFanatic]

Watch Leinart pull a Ryan Leaf.

[WSUCougar]

D gave up what, 49 points total last 2 games.. If the defense doesn't hold up their end of the deal, that offense isn't scoring squat. Especially since it doesn't seem Lewis is right...
Well, they gave up 24 to Indy but held what many consider to be the best offense in the league in relative check for most of the game. The Ravens gave up 25 to Tennessee, but nine of that is on the offense (INT + safety). I still think the defense is good enough to keep them from sinking as low as a Top 3 pick, but we can agree to disagree. :cool:

[Bearcat729]

I don't think Cleveland will draft him. I tend to lean towards them drafting defense or a OL.

I would love to see someone like AJ Hawk playing in Cleveland next season.

[pennywisesb]

Watch Leinart pull a Ryan Leaf.

I hope you are joking. Leinhart is so much better than Ryan Leaf. I think Alex Smith is much more likely to do something like that than Leinhart

[BigJohn&TheLions]

I'd like to see Mike Williams catching passes from Lion-art!

[rkmsuf]

Line Art

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Line Art
Not when he's winning Super Bowl's in Detroit. :D

[TroyF]

I'm still hoping Washington collapses and gives Denver that top pick. We NEED Leinhart. :)

I doubt Tennessee would draft a RB. They have too many other needs, espcially on the defensive side of the ball. Also we have the wild card here. If Vince Young leaves Texas, he'll be picked high, possibly as high as #2, depending on the team. He just has too much natural ability for someone not to take a chance on him.

I agree with you though. . . of the "bad" teams, Leinhart fits Arizona the best.

[Mustang]

Although, the big question might be do you give up a top pick for Leinart OR do you give up a top pick for Rivers if SD decides to go with Brees...

[RedKingGold]

That's another interesting question.....Leinart's great,...but I LOVE Vincent Young (especially after the Rose Bowl and the OSU game).

If I have the number one overall, I think I'm going Vincent Young over Leinart.

And the Niner's will get Reggie Bush somehow

[RendeR]

Baltimore WILL trade up to get Leinert. Right it down in stone, its going to happen.

[rkmsuf]

Baltimore WILL trade up to get Leinert. Right it down in stone, its going to happen.

They might not have to!

[RendeR]

They might not have to!



*CACKLES* so true, so amazingly WONDERFULLY true =)

[Samdari]

That's another interesting question.....Leinart's great,...but I LOVE Vincent Young (especially after the Rose Bowl and the OSU game).

If I have the number one overall, I think I'm going Vincent Young over Leinart.

And the Niner's will get Reggie Bush somehow

I don't think you guys realize how highly rated Leinart is. There is NO WAY Vince Young goes ahead of him (although I agree if he continues to play like he is, he's a top 5 pick). There is NO WAY anyone trades a pick that would be Leinart for Phillip Rivers. I am pretty sure Leinart is thought of more highly than any QB since Peyton, with the possible exception of Carson Palmer.

Troy, you are probably right about Tennessee and the RB. I had to pick someone though, and it seems that everyone is really high on ILB's, and the UCLA TE. Both positions tend not to go in the top 10. They drafted about 9 DL the past few years, and have young, high draft picks at the corners. I think they are more likely to go OL, but we shall see. I just did not see a good fit for them here, except at ILB, and don't think they'd go there in the top 5.

I wonder about Reggie Bush. He is dynamic and makes as many game breaking plays as anyone in college football. But, is he an NFL tailback? Has never been the primary running back for USC, and has never demonstrated the ability to run between the tackles, and grind out yards. I guess with his speed, someone will take him high and figure out how to use him when he gets there.

[Ryche]

Maroney from the Gophers will be the top RB in the draft. 4.3 speed, enough size and he has run on everyone he's faced.

My prediction is Denver. They'll see visions of obtaining the golden boy from the west coast just like they did a couple decades ago and deal whatever is necessary to get him.

[Samdari]

Maroney from the Gophers will be the top RB in the draft. 4.3 speed, enough size and he has run on everyone he's faced.

My prediction is Denver. They'll see visions of obtaining the golden boy from the west coast just like they did a couple decades ago and deal whatever is necessary to get him.

Everything I see has Bush and DeAngelo Williams ahead of Maroney.

[Ryche]

Everything I see has Bush and DeAngelo Williams ahead of Maroney.

Yep, all the projections I've seen have indicated the same thing. I should amend what I said with Bush, who will probably go ahead of Maroney. Didn't think of him for whatever reason, maybe because it's questionable what his role will be in the NFL.

But by the time draft day is here, I'm positive Maroney will go ahead of Williams. I think Williams is ranked ahead of Maroney because he's a senior and he put up huge numbers as the feature back last year while Maroney was splitting time.

This coming week will be good for comparison purposes. Maroney put up 203 yards on 21 carries at Tulsa. We'll see what Williams does there.

[WSUCougar]

Damn...I'm going to have to see much more consistent, quality passing from Vince Young before I'd take him any where near that high. Are draft experts putting him in the Top 5 already?

[Raiders Army]

I'd put Bush at WR.

[TroyF]

Damn...I'm going to have to see much more consistent, quality passing from Vince Young before I'd take him any where near that high. Are draft experts putting him in the Top 5 already?


He's as polished as Vick was. Young just has so much natural athletic ability that someone will jump at the pick.

Leinhart goes #1, no questions asked. The only way that pick is traded is if the team who has the pick already has a young QB. The Niners would deal the pick, but that's about it.

Leinhart is simply rated too high.

As for Bush, someone will draft him and figure out how to use him.

Now, if the Niners get the pick and decide to deal, Denver is most certainly a likely destination. They have two first round picks. They actually have some cap room opening up next year. The only way Jake Plummer stays here is if the Broncos somehow win a couple of playoff games.

Plus, Denver has some depth at positions teams would have interest in. (a lot of young secondary players, a fairly deep defensive line and LB core)

I could easily see them trading for him.

I'd look for some teams to make a play for Ferguson as well. He's a solid player and there hasn't been a true franchise type tackle in the last couple of drafts.

Also, don't forget about the other Bush at running back. Michael Bush is a junior, but NFL scouts have to be drooling at the guy. 6'3", 240, fast as hell and can even catch the ball out of the backfield. One last guy to look at:

Brady Quinn. He's a junior and I'd guess he comes back, but he's got just about everything scouts look for in a QB. Strong arm, tall (6'4") and you know they'll love that he played under Weiss. He comes out, we could potentially have three QB's go in the top ten.

[PackerFanatic]

Yeah, although Young is great...Leinhart will go #1. I mean he was slated to go #1 this year before he commited back to USC...and unless he has a complete breakdown this year, he should be #1 no matter what. And I would probably put Young in the top 5 too. Looks just as good, if not better, than Vick was at that time.

[scooper]

Sure, Vince Young has his athleticism going for him, but after a semester of nothing but ballroom dancing class, Leinhart should be pretty agile.

[PackerFanatic]

Sure, Vince Young has his athleticism going for him, but after a semester of nothing but ballroom dancing class, Leinhart should be pretty agile.

Haha...touche salesman.

[HomerJSimpson]

Yeah, although Young is great...Leinhart will go #1. I mean he was slated to go #1 this year before he commited back to USC...and unless he has a complete breakdown this year, he should be #1 no matter what. And I would probably put Young in the top 5 too. Looks just as good, if not better, than Vick was at that time.


Vick probably still has better raw physical talent, I agree that Young has probably more actual QB skill than Vick did. Shoot, he may have more than Vick has now. :eek:

[st.cronin]

There are probably at least 10 college qbs who are better passers than Ron Mexico; which isn't to say he can't play QB, just that he's quite a bit overhyped, and HORRIBLY misused.

[HomerJSimpson]

There are probably at least 10 college qbs who are better passers than Ron Mexico; which isn't to say he can't play QB, just that he's quite a bit overhyped, and HORRIBLY misused.


Overhyped? Probably. Misused? No. His winning percentage suggest otherwise. They call the offense he plays in "West Coast", but it actually completely tailored around Vick. He just may never be a pocket passer, which means his career is probably going to be a short one.

[Schmidty]

Detroit is not the 5th worst team in the league. All you Lion fans jumping off the bandwagon because of one admittedly horrendous game (but still one game) make me nauseuous. I've suffered with the Lions as long as anyone on this board and I am as jaded as anyone, but to say that they are one of the worst 5 teams in the league, or even one of the worst 10 teams is totally asinine. If they continue to look this bad the next 3-4 games, go ahead and stick a fork in them, but until then, back the fuck off.

[ISiddiqui]

There are probably at least 10 college qbs who are better passers than Ron Mexico; which isn't to say he can't play QB, just that he's quite a bit overhyped, and HORRIBLY misused.Remember in Vick's last year at VTech he missed qualifying for the passer rating rankings by a few passes, but if he did, he would have led 1-A in passer rating that year.

So players that look great passing in college may not be able to duplicate the same level of ability in the pros.

[bhlloy]

Bush put on 10-20 pounds in the offseason reportedly to make himself look more like a NFL RB, and his carries are way up on last year. He's taking carries away from LenDale White (another first round pick?) which is a very good sign. As long as he holds up and doesn't get injured this season I think he's going to be drafted right behind Williams as the second runningback.

As for the first pick would I be completely stupid to say I can see Green Bay in that mix? Favre looks poor, the defence and O-Line are horrid and now Walker gone for the year.
That brings up a potentially sticky situation - stick with Aaron Rogers who in my opinion looks like a bust already, or take Leinart?

[Young Drachma]

I'd put Bush at WR.

Yeah, that's what I always figured he'd be in the NFL.

[ISiddiqui]

As for the first pick would I be completely stupid to say I can see Green Bay in that mix? Favre looks poor, the defence and O-Line are horrid and now Walker gone for the year.
That brings up a potentially sticky situation - stick with Aaron Rogers who in my opinion looks like a bust already, or take Leinart?How in the WORLD can Aaron Rogers look like a bust already?! If you are basing it on the Tedford lineage, then they knew that before they picked him.

[st.cronin]

How in the WORLD can Aaron Rogers look like a bust already?! If you are basing it on the Tedford lineage, then they knew that before they picked him.

Well, reports on Rogers from camp were poor/unimpressive. I think he's #3 on the depth chart.

[bhlloy]

Yeah I'm jumping the gun and he'll probably turn out to be the second coming of Montana or something now. But for me slipping that far in the draft past teams with clear needs at QB + Tedford's history + apparently a very poor training camp points in a certain direction.
Just my opinion. You certainly can't argue that Leinart isn't twice the prospect that Rogers is, even if he doesn't bust. Earlier in the thread people have been suggesting that they would take Leinart and trade Alex Smith to accomodate him.

[ISiddiqui]

Well, reports on Rogers from camp were poor/unimpressive. I think he's #3 on the depth chart.Yeah, but he's a rookie. Most rookies don't shine their first year and Sherman's system is fairly complicated, IIRC.

[TazFTW]

Heh!! This is a joke, right? Not the Lions finishing up as the 5th worst team in the league (a strong possibility), but them drafting ANOTHER wide receiver in the first round.

http://img315.imageshack.us/img315/9059/52mattmillenwhitet1ig.jpg

:p

[PilotMan]

I say that Leinart will bypass the NFL in search of his true dream of a career on the professional ballroom dancing circuit.

[Thomkal]

Kurt Warner has only a one year contract, so I have to think he's out the door if my beloved Cards don't have a good season. But the Cards have passed on the opportunity to draft a quality QB the last two, three seasons, so I have my doubts they would even take Leinart with the #1 pick.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Detroit is not the 5th worst team in the league. All you Lion fans jumping off the bandwagon because of one admittedly horrendous game (but still one game) make me nauseuous. I've suffered with the Lions as long as anyone on this board and I am as jaded as anyone, but to say that they are one of the worst 5 teams in the league, or even one of the worst 10 teams is totally asinine. If they continue to look this bad the next 3-4 games, go ahead and stick a fork in them, but until then, back the fuck off.
I'm not sure who is worse: The bandwagon fans who jumped off after the Bears loss, or the ones who jumped on after the Green Bay win.

Are the Lions the 5th worst team in the league? No. Are they in the top 3rd? No. I felt going into the season they were a 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7 team, just because of inconsistancy. They are not a playoff team. For the Lions there is nowhere to go but down. Injuries and karma could destroy this team.

The injury bug hit with Bryant going down. He may not have been playing that well, but Goodman has shown nothing since coming into the league. This Bears loss I think could implode the team. Joey takes no blame for anything. He never has, he never will. It may be true that the line hasn't protected him for shit, but I don't think that Joey has helped matters much. Some guys make you want to go to war with them. Some you don't. I don't think that many of the Lions feel that Joey is a guy who has their backs, and therefore I think they aren't going to give their all to protect him either. Not that I think anyone would miss a block intentionally, it's just that they have talent, but they seem to be going thru the motions.

I now see 7-9 as their ceiling. And that's because the division looks real weak right now.

The best thing for Detroit, and for Harrington, is for the two to part ways in the offseason. Maybe the Lions can get a QB that can hit a receiver in stride. Maybe Joey can go somewhere where he can grow as well. (He needs an offense that is willing to air it out and attack.) A season or two in Oakland as the backup would be good for him. If Collins would go down Joey has the arm to just chuck it deep and let Moss go get it.

[Schmidty]

I'm not sure who is worse: The bandwagon fans who jumped off after the Bears loss, or the ones who jumped on after the Green Bay win.

Are the Lions the 5th worst team in the league? No. Are they in the top 3rd? No. I felt going into the season they were a 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7 team, just because of inconsistancy. They are not a playoff team. For the Lions there is nowhere to go but down. Injuries and karma could destroy this team.

The injury bug hit with Bryant going down. He may not have been playing that well, but Goodman has shown nothing since coming into the league. This Bears loss I think could implode the team. Joey takes no blame for anything. He never has, he never will. It may be true that the line hasn't protected him for shit, but I don't think that Joey has helped matters much. Some guys make you want to go to war with them. Some you don't. I don't think that many of the Lions feel that Joey is a guy who has their backs, and therefore I think they aren't going to give their all to protect him either. Not that I think anyone would miss a block intentionally, it's just that they have talent, but they seem to be going thru the motions.

I now see 7-9 as their ceiling. And that's because the division looks real weak right now.

The best thing for Detroit, and for Harrington, is for the two to part ways in the offseason. Maybe the Lions can get a QB that can hit a receiver in stride. Maybe Joey can go somewhere where he can grow as well. (He needs an offense that is willing to air it out and attack.) A season or two in Oakland as the backup would be good for him. If Collins would go down Joey has the arm to just chuck it deep and let Moss go get it.

I think you are totally wrong and look forward to seeing the Lions run toward a mediocre 9-7 record this season. Mark it down.

The funny thing is, I agree with most of your post. Joey is shit. Garbage. A jazz pianist playing QB. But he should/will still be able to complete enough passes (to an emmensely talented recieving corpse) and hand off enough (to an uber-back like Jones) to be decent. I still believe in the defense (although I wonder if Jauron isn't the worst D.C. in the league) enough to think that it can help the offense just enough to eek out a winning record and a play-off berth.

I've believed in this team long before the G.B game, and I'll believe in them long after the shitty Bears game. If they falter, I'll look dumb, but at least I've stayed faithful.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

I've believed in this team long before the G.B game, and I'll believe in them long after the shitty Bears game. If they falter, I'll look dumb, but at least I've stayed faithful.
I look at the team realistically. The only time I really rooted against them was in that Niner's game (I think it was Wayn's last stand) and Mitchell was sacked on 1st, sacked on 2nd, then threw a pick on 3rd that was ran back for a score ON THE FIRST POSESSION OF THE GAME!!! I laughed my ass off.

[AZSpeechCoach]

Kurt Warner has only a one year contract, so I have to think he's out the door if my beloved Cards don't have a good season. But the Cards have passed on the opportunity to draft a quality QB the last two, three seasons, so I have my doubts they would even take Leinart with the #1 pick.

Plus, the Cards have the knack of trading down when their pick gets too high so that they won't have to pay signing bonuses and other perks to the rookie. The Bidwells are cheap, and will continue to be cheap.

[Galaxy]

I say that Leinart will bypass the NFL in search of his true dream of a career on the professional ballroom dancing circuit.

Next on "Dancing with the Stars"....

[Samdari]

I say that Leinart will bypass the NFL in search of his true dream of a career on the professional ballroom dancing circuit.

Don't change the rules of the game.

Which (ballroom dancing) team will draft him then?

[scooper]

Kurt Warner has only a one year contract, so I have to think he's out the door if my beloved Cards don't have a good season. But the Cards have passed on the opportunity to draft a quality QB the last two, three seasons, so I have my doubts they would even take Leinart with the #1 pick.
Denny had the luxury of Randy Moss and Cris Carter in Minny, along with Robert Smith to keep them honest. All he needed was a QB with an arm strong enough to get it there. He plugged a few different guys in and had success. I can almost see this thought process creeping back in with his young talented WR corps in Zona. "It doesn't matter who the QB is." Well, I think it does. Imagine that group of WR's maturing with a talented young QB. That offense has many of the parts in place. If it's still not working, maybe it's time to admit why.

[flere-imsaho]

Given the news on Pennington, here's my current thinking:

1. Jets
2. Arizona
3. Detroit

[Thomkal]

Denny had the luxury of Randy Moss and Cris Carter in Minny, along with Robert Smith to keep them honest. All he needed was a QB with an arm strong enough to get it there. He plugged a few different guys in and had success. I can almost see this thought process creeping back in with his young talented WR corps in Zona. "It doesn't matter who the QB is." Well, I think it does. Imagine that group of WR's maturing with a talented young QB. That offense has many of the parts in place. If it's still not working, maybe it's time to admit why.
Didn't see this till now Scooper. I completely agree with you that the Cards have a potentially potent offense with three young good receivers. They should have a good quality young QB to grow with them. McCown as much as I like him is not it. He didn't look good when he replaced Warner in the Seattle game, so it should be interesting to see how he does against the weak Niners defense this week.

[SnDvls]

Didn't see this till now Scooper. I completely agree with you that the Cards have a potentially potent offense with three young good receivers. They should have a good quality young QB to grow with them. McCown as much as I like him is not it. He didn't look good when he replaced Warner in the Seattle game, so it should be interesting to see how he does against the weak Niners defense this week.


It doesn't matter who is throwing the ball, if the o-line can't protect your QB will get killed. If your RB and o-line can't run the ball then all the D has to do is cover the WR. The Cruds have great WRs, but no line to help them have a better O.

[st.cronin]

I think it's 50/50 that New Orleans gets the first pick. They're going to have a very long, hard season.

[Ryche]

If Green handles his quarterbacks the same way he did in Minnesota, he'll keep throwing retreads in there for a few more years before investing a high draft pick in a young quarterback. He had Rich Gannon when he first came to Minnesota and sent him out of town very quickly without giving him much of a chance. I'm not sure what finally drove him to draft Culpepper, but it took him several years to trust a young QB. Even then he tried to bring in Marino to be his quarterback during Culpepper's second season.

He won't draft Leinart.

[Anthony]

AZ needs an RB more than they need a QB. they should trade for one, then draft a monster O-Lineman.

not a hulking brute of an O-lineman - i mean an actual monster.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I think you are totally wrong and look forward to seeing the Lions run toward a mediocre 9-7 record this season. Mark it down.

The funny thing is, I agree with most of your post. Joey is shit. Garbage. A jazz pianist playing QB. But he should/will still be able to complete enough passes (to an emmensely talented recieving corpse) and hand off enough (to an uber-back like Jones) to be decent. I still believe in the defense (although I wonder if Jauron isn't the worst D.C. in the league) enough to think that it can help the offense just enough to eek out a winning record and a play-off berth.

I've believed in this team long before the G.B game, and I'll believe in them long after the shitty Bears game. If they falter, I'll look dumb, but at least I've stayed faithful.
I'm certainly not off the band-wagon. Hell, I've been on the band wagon for years. I've witnessed many worse games than the Bears game, but that doesn't mean I can't be down on the team and criticize them. They flat out sucked. The Bears game and that pre-season Monday Night game against the Rams just goes to show that, despite all the promises to the contrary, this team is no different than the team we have fielded the last three years. The same team that has won only 16 games over that span. In fact, they are just a more talented version of those crap teams which makes it even more depressing.

Joey isn't great and has only showed flashes of even being an adequate QB, but our "immensely talented recieving corps" has been pathetic the first two weeks of the season. They barely get open. They appear to give up on routes. They don't fight through jams at the line. C-Rog sulks. They have been far from impressive. It's no surprise as to why Kevin Johnson and Pollard seem to get so many passes thrown their way.

While Jones may be an "ubder-back" he can't do shit when there are 3 defensive guys in the backfield when he gets the hand-off. The Lions haven't been able to run the ball for squat all season. I don't blame Jones, I blame the line. They have been abysmal. They can't muscle anyone off the line and they can't seem to be able to pick up blitzes. Jones has no space to run and Joey rarely has time to throw the ball.

The defense puts no pressure on the quarterback. The linebackers haven't made any plays at all. Jauron's style is as bland as white toast. There is absolutely no identity there. None. At all.

It's only two weeks into the season and, in fact, the Lions are still in sole possession of first place in the suckiest division in football, so all is not lost and there is plenty of time for improvement. By my complaints with this team aren't focused just on this year, they go back to the last three seasons. We've been seeing the same old, same old crap year in and year out.

The next three games will be huge. They are going up against three very physical, but I think beatable teams: Tampa, Carolina, and Baltimore. If they can stick around in these games, put up a fight, maybe even win one or two, the Lions should be in good shape. If they get slapped around like a bunch of pussy cats, I think the writing will be on the wall for Mooch.

[st.cronin]

Whoever has the #1 pick WILL draft and keep Leinart; nobody with the potential to rack up the worst record in the league would trade that pick away.

I think only these teams, if they somehow earned the #1 pick, would think about trading it: Philadelphia, Indianapolis, New England, Atlanta, NY Giants.

[ISiddiqui]

If it's San Fran again, they'll have to do something creative to get rid of Alex Smith, though.

[bhlloy]

If the salary cap hit was too big for the Chargers to get rid of Rivers (4th overall), it's almost certainly too big for the Niners to get rid of Smith (1st overall a year later) no matter how creative they get.

Doesn't look like it will happen unless they suffer a huge meltdown - there looks to be a couple of teams worse than them. If they do get first overall, they could either go RB (Williams or Bush) or trade down. Because of Leinart the value of the first pick is going to skyrocket this year.

I still think the most interesting scenario is the first overall going to Green Bay and them having to make a choice between ditching Rogers already (not such a huge cap hit) or trading out of getting the most NFL ready and most hyped QB prospect since Manning. Personally I think it's a no brainer to chuck Rogers.

[Samdari]

If the salary cap hit was too big for the Chargers to get rid of Rivers (4th overall), it's almost certainly too big for the Niners to get rid of Smith (1st overall a year later) no matter how creative they get.

Doesn't look like it will happen unless they suffer a huge meltdown - there looks to be a couple of teams worse than them. If they do get first overall, they could either go RB (Williams or Bush) or trade down. Because of Leinart the value of the first pick is going to skyrocket this year.

I still think the most interesting scenario is the first overall going to Green Bay and them having to make a choice between ditching Rogers already (not such a huge cap hit) or trading out of getting the most NFL ready and most hyped QB prospect since Manning. Personally I think it's a no brainer to chuck Rogers.

There is no way the Niners get rid of Smith. They try to trade down somewhere else in the top 3-5 and get Reggie Bush (for the fans) or D'Brickashaw Ferguson (the football choice). Not sure I can find any teams worse than them talent wise than the niners though.

The Pack certainly look like a candidate to finish with the #1. Having Rodgers, a late first rounder, is very different than having last year's #1 overall pick, or a top 10 guy even. I am not sure they need to ditch him if they happen to get #1 and take Lineart. Rogers would not be happy, but them's the breaks.

I still see SF or Arizona (my favorite) getting it at this point, as Favre is probably worth a few wins.

A new, little discussed entry into the fray - the Houston Texans. Carr, still looks like the same guy he did as a rookie. When a 4th year guy still has potential as his biggest asset, you have to start to suspect he may never develop. I would find it extremely interesting to see what they would do if they earned the #1, especially since the player Carr needs the most to be successful is the likely #2 pick. If Houston is #1, and SF #2, what does Houston do?

[Ryche]

Time for an update bump:

Looks like Houston is making a strong case for that number one pick. The question is, do they bail on Carr to take the next golden boy or go offensive line for their first pick (or maybe all 7 picks wouldn't be a bad idea).

After Houston, we also have Green Bay, Minnesota, Arizona, San Francisco and Oakland win 1 win. I hate to say this, but if Minnesota manages to lose next week, I think they may become the favorite in the sweepstakes. They can't keep putting Culpepper out there playing the way he is. And with a new coaching regime most likely installed next year, if not sooner, maybe they start with a clean slate.

[mauchow]

Time for an update bump:

Looks like Houston is making a strong case for that number one pick. The question is, do they bail on Carr to take the next golden boy or go offensive line for their first pick (or maybe all 7 picks wouldn't be a bad idea).

After Houston, we also have Green Bay, Minnesota, Arizona, San Francisco and Oakland win 1 win. I hate to say this, but if Minnesota manages to lose next week, I think they may become the favorite in the sweepstakes. They can't keep putting Culpepper out there playing the way he is. And with a new coaching regime most likely installed next year, if not sooner, maybe they start with a clean slate.
I only wish the coaching situation would change RIGHT THE FUCK now. :) That is all.

If we do for some reason get the 1st pick, then by all means, take Leinart. Get rid of that fat ass who can't run for a damn first down or throw the damn ball away.

[Ryche]

Dennis Green wouldn't give up his number 1 to get Daunte would he? No, of course not...well...

[Huckleberry]

Vince Young 4th in the nation in passing efficiency. Just for everyone's information. ;)

I'd still take Leinart first, of course, and it's not much of a question. Just noting that the difference between Vick and Young hypewise comes down to the fact that Vick was on the east coast.

[Samdari]

Time for an update bump:

Looks like Houston is making a strong case for that number one pick. The question is, do they bail on Carr to take the next golden boy or go offensive line for their first pick (or maybe all 7 picks wouldn't be a bad idea).

After Houston, we also have Green Bay, Minnesota, Arizona, San Francisco and Oakland win 1 win. I hate to say this, but if Minnesota manages to lose next week, I think they may become the favorite in the sweepstakes. They can't keep putting Culpepper out there playing the way he is. And with a new coaching regime most likely installed next year, if not sooner, maybe they start with a clean slate.

I would find Houston the most interesting of all cases. They have done so poorly at trying to fix the OL that they still do not know what Carr could do if he had a good OL. One of the best OL prospects in years is (right now) the #3 prospect in the draft. It is clear, I think, that Carr will never be a star in the league, and Lineart might. Do they roll out the former golden boy, whos upside now reads good instead of great, but will finally have some chance to be good, or do they put yet another golden boy #1 overall behind a dreadful line? I am rooting for Houston to "win" the pick just to watch this play out. That, or have Minnesota win the pick and run the clock out...

I don't think that Minnesota would be that interesting at all, since Culpepper is so accomplished. I think it would be easy to rationalize this as a bad year (partly attributable to having the most unqualified HC ever) and go forward fooling yourself into thinking you still have one of the top 5 QBs in the game. Its gotta be tempting to take Reggie Bush.

[st.cronin]

Vince Young 4th in the nation in passing efficiency. Just for everyone's information. ;)

I'd still take Leinart first, of course, and it's not much of a question. Just noting that the difference between Vick and Young hypewise comes down to the fact that Vick was on the east coast.

I have the QB prospects like this:

1. Leinart
2. Young
3. Vick
4. Jacobs
5. Quinn
6. Croyle

Not sure if all those guys will be in the draft this year ... but this is looking like potentially the best class for QBs in a LONG time. Cutler and Leak have to be considered decent prospects as well, possibly Clemens and Besanez too.

[Ryche]

Hell, I thought Culpepper was the third best QB in the NFL just a few weeks ago ;) But he has only looked even decent in one game this year. A bad game here or there is to be expected. But the stretch of football he's playing right now is what I would have expected from him as a rookie. He was on the field with a 4th round draft pick rookie quarterback yesterday and you honestly could not tell which was the rookie.

Realistically, Culpepper is almost certainly the Vikings QB next year. But at some point he has to step up. If he keeps playing like this all year...well, Brad Johnson will be the starting QB before much longer.

Just saw that David Carr is due an 8 million dollar roster bonus next year. That could definitely factor into Houston's decision. Although I think bringing in a veteran and upgrading offensive line is more likely than them putting another rookie to the wolves.

[Logan]

I would find Houston the most interesting of all cases. They have done so poorly at trying to fix the OL that they still do not know what Carr could do if he had a good OL. One of the best OL prospects in years is (right now) the #3 prospect in the draft.

Is that D'Brickashaw Ferguson, or someone else?

[RendeR]

I'm actually pulling for the Ravens to win a few games. Palmer and big ben in one division is enough top flight QB's thank you very much. We don't need Leinert coming in and adding to the hysteria.

At this point I don't think the Texans pick Leinert, I think they'll either trade down (IF anyone makes a quality offer) or they take the top O-Lineman and go from there.

As for Carr, I honestly believe he CAN be a star in the NFL, but I'm wondering if its going to be for houston or perhaps a team who needs a decent QB like Arizona, Oakland, Baltimore, Cleveland, Minnesota and perhaps a couple others.

What are the odds of Houston taking leinert then turn and deal Carr off for some picks in the future?

interesting stuff this NFL is.

[stevew]

I'm actually pulling for the Ravens to win a few games. Palmer and big ben in one division is enough top flight QB's thank you very much. We don't need Leinert coming in and adding to the hysteria.

At this point I don't think the Texans pick Leinert, I think they'll either trade down (IF anyone makes a quality offer) or they take the top O-Lineman and go from there.

As for Carr, I honestly believe he CAN be a star in the NFL, but I'm wondering if its going to be for houston or perhaps a team who needs a decent QB like Arizona, Oakland, Baltimore, Cleveland, Minnesota and perhaps a couple others.

What are the odds of Houston taking leinert then turn and deal Carr off for some picks in the future?

interesting stuff this NFL is.
Yeah, around work we were talking about that, and we hope the Ratbirds go like 8-8 this year, otherwise they might find someone to fix their QB mess(Leinart)

[Ryche]

I have the QB prospects like this:

1. Leinart
2. Young
3. Vick
4. Jacobs
5. Quinn
6. Croyle

Not sure if all those guys will be in the draft this year ... but this is looking like potentially the best class for QBs in a LONG time. Cutler and Leak have to be considered decent prospects as well, possibly Clemens and Besanez too.

I'm starting to think Cutler is going to go in the first round. Impressive kid, reminds me a lot of Farve coming out of college. Gunslinger coming from an overmatch school. If he has a good combine and does well in the prospect games, I could see a team like Tampa grabbing him. Although I'd prefer if he slipped to the second for Minnesota.

[Izulde]

I say Bush gets drafted before Leinart.

Something just tells me that Leinart is overrated. Can't explain why though, just a hunch.

[Izulde]

Dola,

And I'd probably take Leak first out of all the QBs.

[ISiddiqui]

Leak? Over Vince Young? I can see someone saying Leinhart is overrated (because of the talent around him), but I can't imagine someone saying that Leak is a better NFL prospect than Vince Young.

[Izulde]

Leak? Over Vince Young? I can see someone saying Leinhart is overrated (because of the talent around him), but I can't imagine someone saying that Leak is a better NFL prospect than Vince Young.

The fact that Leak is still doing well in a system that doesn't fit him speaks volumes for his potential I think.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I think you are totally wrong and look forward to seeing the Lions run toward a mediocre 9-7 record this season. Mark it down.

The funny thing is, I agree with most of your post. Joey is shit. Garbage. A jazz pianist playing QB. But he should/will still be able to complete enough passes (to an emmensely talented recieving corpse) and hand off enough (to an uber-back like Jones) to be decent. I still believe in the defense (although I wonder if Jauron isn't the worst D.C. in the league) enough to think that it can help the offense just enough to eek out a winning record and a play-off berth.

I've believed in this team long before the G.B game, and I'll believe in them long after the shitty Bears game. If they falter, I'll look dumb, but at least I've stayed faithful.
A mediocre 9-7 is looking like a pipe dream at the moment... Good thing I didn't "Mark it down" as suggested.

As sad as it is for me to say, Schmidty, my man, you're looking like your boy John L. Williams right before halftime against OSU...

[ISiddiqui]

The fact that Leak is still doing well in a system that doesn't fit him speaks volumes for his potential I think.
Potential? Because he is passing well in a system that uses the spread option? Meyer isn't a Tom Osborn guy, he does like to air it out.

Even with a system that Leak may not like, I'd be hardpressed to say he's got more potential or is better than Vince Young, who can run it as well as pass it.

Lemme guess.. you are a Florida fan, right? ;)

[Izulde]

Potential? Because he is passing well in a system that uses the spread option? Meyer isn't a Tom Osborn guy, he does like to air it out.

Even with a system that Leak may not like, I'd be hardpressed to say he's got more potential or is better than Vince Young, who can run it as well as pass it.

Lemme guess.. you are a Florida fan, right? ;)

Nah, not a Florida fan. More a Wisconsin fan than anything else. I'd be a Wyoming fan, but I hate this town and the university is okay, but not great.

War Memorial stadium is nice, though.

[timmynausea]

I have the QB prospects like this:

1. Leinart
2. Young
3. Vick
4. Jacobs
5. Quinn
6. Croyle

Not sure if all those guys will be in the draft this year ... but this is looking like potentially the best class for QBs in a LONG time. Cutler and Leak have to be considered decent prospects as well, possibly Clemens and Besanez too.

I have to think Vick's stock dropped some after that Miami game. It was the first time he really faced pressure, and it wasn't pretty.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

If SF does get the #1 pick, and Smith shows nothing, would SF be tempted to go with the guy they would have taken if he was there and trade Smith, or would they trade down? I know the cap would kill them.

Hey, then they could use the top pick in '07 on a QB too!
Paging Brady Quinn Paging Brady Quinn....
Seriously I do see the 49ers drafting Leinart, as much as I dont want them to it is feasable opition.

[Samdari]

Paging Brady Quinn Paging Brady Quinn....
Seriously I do see the 49ers drafting Leinart, as much as I dont want them to it is feasable opition.

I really don't think they can use the #1 pick two years in a row on a QB. It basically would be admitting completely blowing the Alex Smith pick (which I think they did, but my opinion is inconsequential). That is a PR/fan confidence nightmare. "We completely blew a rare opportunity at the top pick in the draft, and wasted a lot of your money in the process. But, please, get your season ticket renewals in early, we are sure we made the right choice this time."

They just can't do it. Besides, they sit no better than third right now, and neither Houston nor Green Bay is showing much.

[st.cronin]

I still think New Orleans/San Antonio will end up with Leinart.

[Neuqua]

A mediocre 9-7 is looking like a pipe dream at the moment... Good thing I didn't "Mark it down" as suggested.

As sad as it is for me to say, Schmidty, my man, you're looking like your boy John L. Williams right before halftime against OSU...

No no, Schmidty is never wrong.

[GrantDawg]

Will Vick come out this year with no chance of being in the top ten picks? Will Quinn? They have a much better shot of going higher in the next draft than this one. I think they are both good prospects, but I do think they might stay put one more year. You have Lienhart, Young, Croyle, and maybe even Cutler being ranked above one or both of them, not to mention possibily Leak (who might stay for the same reason). It will still be a good class, but so will next year's crop.

[Samdari]

Will Vick come out this year with no chance of being in the top ten picks? Will Quinn? They have a much better shot of going higher in the next draft than this one. I think they are both good prospects, but I do think they might stay put one more year. You have Lienhart, Young, Croyle, and maybe even Cutler being ranked above one or both of them, not to mention possibily Leak (who might stay for the same reason). It will still be a good class, but so will next year's crop.

I have heard lots of rumblings about Quinn being in the same breath as Leinart - he'd go top 10, almost certainly, this year or next.

Of course, Aaron Rodgers was a sure top 10 guy not so long ago too.

[ISiddiqui]

If Quinn has a really good bowl game (like Young did last year), I can see him go Top 10.

[moriarty]

If Quinn has a really good bowl game (like Young did last year), I can see him go Top 10.

I'm not a Notre Dame fan, but I can see him going top 15, even top 10 with his size and accuracy. I don't see him going pro next year though.

[ISiddiqui]

I think that a team like Arizona would take him. He's a good prospect, and 'Zona would like getting a ND QB to actually get some fans in the building ;).

[Young Drachma]

Nah, not a Florida fan. More a Wisconsin fan than anything else. I'd be a Wyoming fan, but I hate this town and the university is okay, but not great.

War Memorial stadium is nice, though.

C'mon, Bramlet is amazing. Isn't he? So what the hell was Joe Glenn smoking when he allowed him to throw away the season almost singlehandedly?

Oh well. At least, Jovon Bouknight will be a beast in the NFL to whatever team is smart enough to pick him up. That kid would be a 1st round pick if he played somewhere other than the U-Dub.

[bhlloy]

The media and a lot of so called "experts" are creaming themselves over Brady Quinn. Unless he stinks the rest of the way I can't see anyway he's not coming out this year and going top 10.

The one thing that keeps him in school IMO is if ND get the top 5 recruiting class that they look like they might get, and Weis convinces him they can challenge for the BCS next year.

[stevew]

Will Vick come out this year with no chance of being in the top ten picks? Will Quinn? They have a much better shot of going higher in the next draft than this one. I think they are both good prospects, but I do think they might stay put one more year. You have Lienhart, Young, Croyle, and maybe even Cutler being ranked above one or both of them, not to mention possibily Leak (who might stay for the same reason). It will still be a good class, but so will next year's crop.
I would think that "character issues" would keep vick out of the top 10 in any year? Maybe not though.

[GrantDawg]

I would think that "character issues" would keep vick out of the top 10 in any year? Maybe not though.

Not if he has a good year next season without issues. Too much potential, and building a track record of "straightening out." Another issue could kill him though.

[digamma]

Do people really thing Young will come out this year?

[GrantDawg]

Do people really thing Young will come out this year?

I would think so. He might stay in if he felt he'd be top of the next draft, but he is going to be a pretty high pick this year.

[ISiddiqui]

Young will be a Top 5 pick if he comes out this year. He's the "new Vick", though with less explosiveness running the ball, but better pass accuracy.

[cthomer5000]

Young will be a Top 5 pick if he comes out this year. He's the "new Vick", though with less explosiveness running the ball, but better pass accuracy.
Pretty Randall Cunningham-esque IMHO, down to the way they look on the field. Neither looked like they were even trying hard out there.

[ISiddiqui]

Late 80s Cunningham at least, before the injuries got him ;).

[st.cronin]

Pretty Randall Cunningham-esque IMHO, down to the way they look on the field. Neither looked like they were even trying hard out there.

I agree. It's the rare comparison that really nails the way a guy plays.

[digamma]

I thought I had remembered reading something about Young staying, which is why I asked the question.

A friend forwarded this from yesterday's San Antonio Paper:


Truth & Rumors: Nov. 8, 2005
Posted: Tuesday November 8, 2005 10:27AM; Updated: Tuesday November 8, 2005 10:27AM

Texas quarterback Vince Young has "emphatically" informed the UT coaching staff he plans to return for his senior season, a source close to the program said Monday. The news jibes with public comments Young made two weeks ago.
-- San Antonio Express-News

[Cuckoo]

I don't know of any comments to the UT coaching staff, obviously. But his public comments were far from "emphatic." He said something to the effect of: He planned to return, but it wasn't time to think about it yet.

[st.cronin]

I don't know of any comments to the UT coaching staff, obviously. But his public comments were far from "emphatic." He said something to the effect of: He planned to return, but it wasn't time to think about it yet.

He would be far from the first guy to tell everybody he was staying in school, and then at the last minute change his mind.

[Cuckoo]

He would be far from the first guy to tell everybody he was staying in school, and then at the last minute change his mind.

Yeah. Of course, I'm not saying he will or he won't. But if he wins the Heisman and the Longhorns win the Rose Bowl and he figures to be a top 10 pick in the draft, I'd be really surprised to see him return. I was really surprised to see Leinart come back, though, so you never know.

[Ryche]

And with the 2nd pick in the 2006 NFL draft, the New Orleans/San Antonio/Los Angeles Saints select Matt Leinart, senior quarterback from USC.

[cthomer5000]

And with the 2nd pick in the 2006 NFL draft, the New Orleans/San Antonio/Los Angeles Saints select Matt Leinart, senior quarterback from USC.
Agreed. Leinart goes #2, Bush goes #1 (to someone).

[Eaglesfan27]

Benson and the NFL have already announced that the Saints will be in Louisiana (and possibly) New Orleans next year. I'm looking forward to going and watching Leinart play a few times in person.

[Samdari]

Is there a preliminary draft order (through the 4 win teams anyway)?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Is there a preliminary draft order (through the 4 win teams anyway)?
Jim has it laid out nicely in the "NFL Week 17" thread.

[SackAttack]

And, hypothetically, if Bush doesn't declare?

[TazFTW]

Doom!

[Ryche]

And, hypothetically, if Bush doesn't declare?

Then Houston has a tough decision. I'm not sure if anyone will trade up to grab Leinart. He seems to have fallen in the eyes of scouts somewhat.

[JeeberD]

And, hypothetically, if Bush doesn't declare?

I thought that he already had?

Edit: Nevermind, you're asking what if he hadn't, not if he doesn't...

[Philliesfan980]

Does anyone else seem less impressed with Leinart this year? I think he made a huge (financially speaking) mistake going back to school. Sure there are plenty of other reasons to go back to school, but taking that out of it, he cost himself money, and I'm surprised that he didn't see it. I suppose that he didn't anticipate Reggie putting up the numbers/and the show that he did.

I just see him as a QB who has tons of weapons and a great line. I'm not saying that he won't end up as a great QB, but it seems to me that its not a sure thing. He's kinda getting docked because he plays for such a great team, if that makes sense.

[GrantDawg]

Does anyone else seem less impressed with Leinart this year? I think he made a huge (financially speaking) mistake going back to school. Sure there are plenty of other reasons to go back to school, but taking that out of it, he cost himself money, and I'm surprised that he didn't see it. I suppose that he didn't anticipate Reggie putting up the numbers/and the show that he did.

I just see him as a QB who has tons of weapons and a great line. I'm not saying that he won't end up as a great QB, but it seems to me that its not a sure thing. He's kinda getting docked because he plays for such a great team, if that makes sense.

I wonder if he even ends up as the number 2. I would pick at least 2 QB's ahead of him, personally, if not 3.

[Philliesfan980]

I wonder if he even ends up as the number 2. I would pick at least 2 QB's ahead of him, personally, if not 3.

Who are your three? The only one that I see who you could make an arguement for is Vince Young. I'm not sold on all this Jay Cutler stuff that I've been hearing about (although I haven't seen him play that much to be honest).

[GrantDawg]

Who are your three? The only one that I see who you could make an arguement for is Vince Young. I'm not sold on all this Jay Cutler stuff that I've been hearing about (although I haven't seen him play that much to be honest).I have, and I am. Seeing them both play, Cutler has done more with less than any quarterback coming out this year.

My comment really depends more on what you need/want. If you want a guy that'll be ready to start by mid-season and be a decent starter for his career, then you take Leinart. If you want a guy that has bigger future potential, then you are going to look at the next three on the list. Young would easily be my number one on the board, though. He is not that far off Leinart now in development, and he has the potential (note I said potential) to be better than anyone playing in the NFL right now.

[Philliesfan980]

I have, and I am. Seeing them both play, Cutler has done more with less than any quarterback coming out this year.

My comment really depends more on what you need/want. If you want a guy that'll be ready to start by mid-season and be a decent starter for his career, then you take Leinart. If you want a guy that has bigger future potential, then you are going to look at the next three on the list. Young would easily be my number one on the board, though. He is not that far off Leinart now in development, and he has the potential (note I said potential) to be better than anyone playing in the NFL right now.

I'd agree with that. Although the NFL is a much faster league. I think Young might get ate up by the NFL's linebackers vs the College ones, but thats what makes debating this topic fun. I'd like to see him stay another year and polish up his passing game, then I'd agree with you. This is really the first year that he's been a successful passer.

[SackAttack]

I thought that he already had?

Edit: Nevermind, you're asking what if he hadn't, not if he doesn't...

No, I'm asking "doesn't."

He hasn't officially done anything yet. A "source close to the family" has told the press that he will, but what does that mean? He hasn't made his announcement one way or the other, and won't until after Wedsnesday's game.

[SackAttack]

Does anyone else seem less impressed with Leinart this year? I think he made a huge (financially speaking) mistake going back to school.

No he didn't. He has insurance with Lloyd's of London that guarantees him #1 overall money, either if he gets hurt or gets drafted below #1. He'll get the money either way.

[GrantDawg]

I'd agree with that. Although the NFL is a much faster league. I think Young might get ate up by the NFL's linebackers vs the College ones, but thats what makes debating this topic fun. I'd like to see him stay another year and polish up his passing game, then I'd agree with you. This is really the first year that he's been a successful passer.

I don't think he's got that potential just because of his legs. He has a strong, accurate arm. His legs will buy him time (and he'll probably have decent running stats) but he makes good, quick decisions with his sniper rifle ready to go. I don't think he needs another year at college. He needs to go to the next level to develop further.

[Philliesfan980]

No he didn't. He has insurance with Lloyd's of London that guarantees him #1 overall money, either if he gets hurt or gets drafted below #1. He'll get the money either way.

Thats a good move.

Side topic: I wonder how much a policy like that would cost. I mean, there HUGE risk, and therefore I would assume a huge premium, for the insurer with a policy like that. The money between 1 and 2 is a couple of million dollars. And there are numerous changes in the landscape that can cause a guy to drop from 1 to just 2. Imagine if he really slips and went down to 10.

[GrantDawg]

BTW, I'd trade out of the first pick. Bush is a going to be a good player, but not worth a number one over all commitment. The money could be used better trading down.

[Philliesfan980]

BTW, I'd trade out of the first pick. Bush is a going to be a good player, but not worth a number one over all commitment. The money could be used better trading down.

I'm not sure if you can trade out of Bush, he's got the quickness, vision, 2nd level speed, that we haven't seen in awhile. I wonder what he'll be able to do with a crap NFL line though. Not sure if he can handle getting the ball 30 times a game over 16 games either.

[Deattribution]

No he didn't. He has insurance with Lloyd's of London that guarantees him #1 overall money, either if he gets hurt or gets drafted below #1. He'll get the money either way.


Plus another year to develope only helped make him more prepared for the NFL even if everyone else can't see it.

Bush has more to lose by waiting another year then Leinart did.

[GrantDawg]

I'm not sure if you can trade out of Bush, he's got the quickness, vision, 2nd level speed, that we haven't seen in awhile. I wonder what he'll be able to do with a crap NFL line though. Not sure if he can handle getting the ball 30 times a game over 16 games either.
That's what I'm saying (at least in part). He'd be a great player if used correctly, but he is not a franchise back, and is going to eat a lot of resources on a bad team that will not be able to use him affectively.

[cthomer5000]

And, hypothetically, if Bush doesn't declare?
Hardly worth debating. He's already talked to agents an I'm sure it will be official hours after the Rose Bowl.

[Buccaneer]

No he didn't. He has insurance with Lloyd's of London that guarantees him #1 overall money, either if he gets hurt or gets drafted below #1. He'll get the money either way.
I learned something new today.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Is the insurance thing true? You can get insurance for injury and he probably did, but I am very doubtful he could get insurance that would compensate him like the #1 pick, if he was simply drafted lower. In fact, I am pretty sure you can't.

This is all I could find on the net (insurance he had for the previous year, 2004), and the premium amount clearly relates to an injury occurring:

"Leinart's father, Bob, said this week that his son played last season with a $1-million insurance policy that was purchased through Lloyd's of London for a premium of about $20,000. Matt Leinart said the family would purchase insurance again next season, but had not yet investigated the amount or cost."

Edit: Now I found this from Feb. 05, and it clearly is only career-ending injury related:

hxxp://sports-law.blogspot.com/2005/02/insurance-becomes-standard-protective.html

[SackAttack]

Is the insurance thing true? You can get insurance for injury and he probably did, but I am very doubtful he could get insurance that would compensate him like the #1 pick, if he was simply drafted lower. In fact, I am pretty sure you can't.

You can't. Very few can.

The idea is "Look, it's a sure thing, so sure that your premiums are cash in the bank for us...but just in case."

This is all I could find on the net (insurance he had for the previous year, 2004), and the premium amount clearly relates to an injury occurring:

I'll see if I can find the article I have that mentions it, and get back to you in a little bit.

[cthomer5000]

Seems like the premium on the "going #1" thing would have to be extremely high. if in fact he does have that type of insurance.

[SackAttack]

Lloyd's of London knows him and, if they could, they'd tell you about his insurance policy. In a nutshell, Matt Leinart is well-protected. The Leinarts would prefer to keep it quiet, but the gist of their policy is this: if, for instance, Matt falls from first to 15th overall in next year's draft, the insurance company will pay him the difference. In cash. It's called loss of value insurance, and only an athlete of Leinart's pedigree and potential is allowed to buy it.

This is from one of the July issues.

It's called "loss-of-value insurance," and sure, it'd apply if he gets hurt, but it also applies if, say, Reggie declares and goes #1 overall and Leinart falls to #2. Or #3. Or to whoever needs a QB.

[Logan]

This is from one of the July issues.

It's called "loss-of-value insurance," and sure, it'd apply if he gets hurt, but it also applies if, say, Reggie declares and goes #1 overall and Leinart falls to #2. Or #3. Or to whoever needs a QB.

Wouldn't the drop-off from even #1 to #2 be something like $5 million? You would think the premium would have to be pretty high to support that kind of coverage.

[Buccaneer]

And who pays this kind of premium? No one can legally do it on Matt's behalf except his parents. Are they wealthy?

[Philliesfan980]

And who pays this kind of premium? No one can legally do it on Matt's behalf except his parents. Are they wealthy?

Yeah, I think I read somewhere that Matt's Dad owns a lucrative construction company.

[Eaglesfan27]

Yeah, Matt's parents are reportedly loaded thanks to their company. That is part of why he could afford to stay for his Senior year.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

This is from one of the July issues.

It's called "loss-of-value insurance," and sure, it'd apply if he gets hurt, but it also applies if, say, Reggie declares and goes #1 overall and Leinart falls to #2. Or #3. Or to whoever needs a QB.

Ok, that helps, but I'm still thinking that it must be injury-related -- so, not necessarily career-ending, but serious enough to cause a drop in draft spot. Maybe not. Definitely interesting though.