Im not a racist, but...

[Airhog]

Does it irk you when someone says that? We were talking at work today about management. I was talking to one of the guys that has been there 6 years, and we were talking about how we feel that eventually, they will force out those supervisors that do not have a 4 year degree.

Anyways, we only have a few black people that work in our factory. I made a comment about how its not because they don't hire blacks, but because very few black people come in and apply with the temp service.

This is when he trotted out this line. "Well, Im not a racist, but there used to be quite a few black people that worked here. Quite a few of them were lazy, and most of them got fired."

This bothers me on several levels. For starters, I feel like if you have to start a thought with that line, what you are saying is racist for one. We also see a large turnover in our workforce, with maybe less than 5% of the contract employee's getting hired before they are either fired, or quit out of frustration. It's just something that bothers me, and I wondered if it bothers anyone else.

[Noop]

Ignorance is hate for a brain untolded.

[TheOhioStateUniversity]

Yes it usually pisses me off because more often than not it is followed by some blatantly racists or ignorant comment.

[Schmidty]

At least that possibly racist guy tried to soften the blow with a preface, unlike some other racists:

"George Bush doesn't care about black people." :rolleyes:

[Joe]

if you need to preface it by saying that you're not a racist, you most likely are.

[Buccaneer]

Would this be a more acceptable statement?

"there used to be quite a few people that worked here. Quite a few of them were lazy, and most of them got fired"

[Antmeister]

I hate it when people throw in unnecessary information about people.

For example, I remember specifically once my mother said to me: "I was having lunch today with my friend Alice. She's black. Her husband had a heart attack last week."

Now what did the fact that her friend is black have to do with anything? She didn't mention that she was wearing an orange shirt. Why? It is irrelevant. Just like her friend's ancestry...

That's funny. I never really thought about it, but that example happens a lot with co-workers and/or acquaintances who are trying to shoot the breeze.

[Dutch]

I hate it when people just assume that white's hating black people is the only kind of racism in this country. Like white people are just human and black people are God's gift to political correctness. We're all generally pretty ignorant when it comes to handling race differences, last I checked.

[DaddyTorgo]

true that Dutchie. I will try to avoid making a racist stereotype here, but I know that many people of other ethnic groups can be just as racist, if not more racist than your typical "white on black" racism.

[ahbrady]

I hate it when people throw in unnecessary information about people.

For example, I remember specifically once my mother said to me: "I was having lunch today with my friend Alice. She's black. Her husband had a heart attack last week."

Now what did the fact that her friend is black have to do with anything? She didn't mention that she was wearing an orange shirt. Why? It is irrelevant. Just like her friend's ancestry...

I agree completely. Unless you are trying to describe what a person looks like, why do you need to include that he or she is black?

I have never heard anyone say, "I'm not a racist, but ..." without the next phrase being a racist comment. I suppose it could happen where it wasn't a racist comment, but I haven't heard it yet.

[miami_fan]

We're all generally pretty ignorant when it comes to handling race differences, last I checked.

There are differences between the races? Very shocking! :rolleyes:

Very true statement BTW

[Dutch]

There are differences between the races? Very shocking! :rolleyes:

See, I'm human AND American, so that makes it okay to make mistakes like that right? :)

[Antmeister]

I hate it when people just assume that white's hating black people is the only kind of racism in this country. Like white people are just human and black people are God's gift to political correctness. We're all generally pretty ignorant when it comes to handling race differences, last I checked.

Uhhh....maybe it's just me, but who's making that assumption. I even see a Kanye West reference in this very thread.

But with that said, I think the reason why black/white racism seems so prevalent in a lot of discussions lately is that it is often still a very sensitive subject. I mean it is only in my parent's generation when both races could frickin share the same restroom. I am so thankful that they didn't carry a lot of hate from that period and pass it down to us. In fact we didn't even know anything about it until I hit junior high.

Plus the most important part, in my opinion, about this post is that it occured at the workplace. It is already hard enough to get work when you have an even playing field, but add those stereotypes into the mix and it is usually much more difficult for a person to get a break. I guess it just drives me nuts when people generalize a group of people instead of individual(s).

[Subby]

I'm not a racist, but who else here thinks Dutch is a cracker?

[Buccaneer]

I'm not a something, but who else here thinks Subby is an elitist?

[Pumpy Tudors]

I'm not black, but --

Shit, I'm not very good at this.

[Airhog]

I hate it when people throw in unnecessary information about people.

my point exactly. Right now our plant has very few black people working there. But, I dont see those people as being any more lazy than the other races that work there. I just dont think you can assign a trait like that to the whole race.

[Crapshoot]

I hate it when people just assume that white's hating black people is the only kind of racism in this country. Like white people are just human and black people are God's gift to political correctness. We're all generally pretty ignorant when it comes to handling race differences, last I checked.


Agreed, but hearing the rant of the oppressed white man is more than a little amusing - and you seem to be hinting at it. The arguement goes that racism is more powerful from a position of power - a point that may have some value. Nonetheless - racism is racism.

[Ben E Lou]

I'm not a racist either. (http://www.moviesoundscentral.com/sounds/48_hours/white_people.wav)

[Dutch]

Agreed, but hearing the rant of the oppressed white man is more than a little amusing - and you seem to be hinting at it. The arguement goes that racism is more powerful from a position of power - a point that may have some value. Nonetheless - racism is racism.

Yeah, you know what. Most people in this nation were oppressed something-rathers when they got here. I also hate it when people suggest that every white man owned a black slave. And if they were really, really evil, they owned two. Enough of the stereotypes, I say. Let's get over it already and hate each other for more important and less trivial reasons.

[CAsterling]

Got to agree that anybody who starts a phrase with "I'm not a racist" is about to make a really stupid racist statement.....and is essentially exactly what they claim not to be

Equally I detest those people who try and give me sensitivity training at work, to deal with diversity, why is it that people are so hung up on peoples skin colour and think that we need to be trained to ignore it to be able to treat everybody the same......I will work with anybody as long as they are competent, and be friends with anybody whose company I enjoy, race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, nationality don't matter.....racism is one of the last bastions of the really stupid and I detest stupid people.

[ahbrady]

I'm not a racist, but a hot cup of cocoa is delicious on a cold winter night.

I think that has serious racial undertones.

[Axxon]

Got to agree that anybody who starts a phrase with "I'm not a racist" is about to make a really stupid racist statement.....and is essentially exactly what they claim not to be

Equally I detest those people who try and give me sensitivity training at work, to deal with diversity, why is it that people are so hung up on peoples skin colour and think that we need to be trained to ignore it to be able to treat everybody the same......I will work with anybody as long as they are competent, and be friends with anybody whose company I enjoy, race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, nationality don't matter.....racism is one of the last bastions of the really stupid and I detest stupid people.

A lot of people have made your first claim but I'm wondering where there is any question that the statement is going to be a racist one. Unless the speaker is a complete idiot, no, mentally damaged, he's making the disclaimer because he knows it's a racist statement.

Now, we have two ways to look at this.

1. He has made a legitimate observation, not necessarily a conclusion and wishes to share the observation and disclaimer that he didn 't make a conclusion based on the observation.

2. He's just a lying racist who wants to say something racist.

Now, maybe the odds of number 2 being the case is much higher than the chance of 1, I can't help believe that 1 happens some of the time.

Taken at face value his statement said nothing about race, merely something about his observation of an extremely small sample of a race which his statement allowed for.

What could easily be occuring is the friday the 13th myth about er's and police. It's simply an urban legend but let me tell you, having worked in an er it feels true. There is no noticible difference in volume/weirdness of calls on friday the 13th.It's been studied.

But, it's a self perpetuating myth because you remember every weird call and every busy friday the 13th, and fridays are always super busy anyway because of payday and booze. So, you have a busy and its "of course, it's friday the 13th" though it was no busier than friday the 6th was or friday the 20th will be.

So, this guy sees someone different than himself, watches him closely and observes things and makes unwarranted deductions from there.

It's likely that one of the few black man who work there could make the very same statement to his buddies because he's seen the same phenomenon but with emphasis on another race. Since your office has a large turnover likely there is a good bit of laziness among all the new hires and frustration can also be seen as laziness to those who don't know your situation.

Now, I'll leave it to you to decide just how racist this guy is if this is how he made his deduction. Could he honestly be believed when he says he's not being racist if his observation is simply human nature ( pay more attention to something that is different ) instead of a blatant attack?

[Fidatelo]

I have a question that is along these lines, but not race specific. 2-3 months ago a man in a wheelchair started working for my company. He works in a different department and although we'd crossed paths several times, we'd never been introduced and I did not know his name. In a conversation with some co-workers I was mentioning an issue that he had brought up to me earlier in the day, and when they asked who had informed me I responded "the wheelchair guy". They all looked at me aghast, as though I'd just said something horrible.

Was what I said wrong? I didn't know his name, and clearly the most obvious difference between him and everyone else in the company is his wheelchair. Should I have spent 3 minutes saying "Umm, you know, the guy with brown hair... mustache... makes a lot of jokes... "? To me that seems foolish, but describing him as "the wheelchair guy" clearly offended people. Was it just the wording? If I'd said "the guy in the wheelchair" would it have been ok? If he was black, instead of in a wheelchair, and I'd said "the black guy" (we have no black employees in the office at the moment), would that have been bad too? Seems ok to me, but clearly I'm somewhat un-politically correct.

Thoughts?

[Galaxy]

I have a question that is along these lines, but not race specific. 2-3 months ago a man in a wheelchair started working for my company. He works in a different department and although we'd crossed paths several times, we'd never been introduced and I did not know his name. In a conversation with some co-workers I was mentioning an issue that he had brought up to me earlier in the day, and when they asked who had informed me I responded "the wheelchair guy". They all looked at me aghast, as though I'd just said something horrible.

Was what I said wrong? I didn't know his name, and clearly the most obvious difference between him and everyone else in the company is his wheelchair. Should I have spent 3 minutes saying "Umm, you know, the guy with brown hair... mustache... makes a lot of jokes... "? To me that seems foolish, but describing him as "the wheelchair guy" clearly offended people. Was it just the wording? If I'd said "the guy in the wheelchair" would it have been ok? If he was black, instead of in a wheelchair, and I'd said "the black guy" (we have no black employees in the office at the moment), would that have been bad too? Seems ok to me, but clearly I'm somewhat un-politically correct.

Thoughts?

Maybe it was how you worded it?

[Young Drachma]

Would this be a more acceptable statement?

"there used to be quite a few people that worked here. Quite a few of them were lazy, and most of them got fired"

What place couldn't say that, though? I mean, if you hire shiftless people of any stripe, they're gonna get canned unless the place sucks. In which case, I don't work there.

[Karlifornia]

It's funny. I live in California, which has a high concentration of "minorities". I'm half of a minority, which I suppose makes me more of a racial minority than the great deal of you. Anyways, California is supposed to be the haven of racial tolerance (it is a very tolerant place, and I feel very fortunate to have lived here all my life), but I hear shit like this all time, but without the aforementioned preface. It never has to deal with black people, quite possibly because I'm half black and they are too cowardly to say anything like that to my face (but more likely because blacks are already a steadfast part of the culture), but moreso with asians or mexicans.

I usually will hear something like "Asians can't drive". I admit I have been guilty of saying something like this in gridlocked traffic, but I'm just as likely to say "White girls can't drive for shit". It's pretty much a culture thing. Is anyone dumb enough to believe that someone's brain is impacted by the amount of melanin in their skin (This is rhetoric...I know there are people out there, but let's forget about them)? They really should change the term from "racist" to "culturalist".


EDIT: Let me elaborate on the asians and driving..I think that in Japan and Korea, the traffic is more dense, which constitutes a different manner of driving. I would love for someone that is from (or lives in) one of those countries to validate or refute my statement.

[andy m]

This is when he trotted out this line. "Well, Im not a racist, but there used to be quite a few black people that worked here. Quite a few of them were lazy, and most of them got fired."

when you work for a large company whats wrong with being lazy anyway? by being hard working you're probably just making money for some greedy bastards who you aren't friends with and you will never really benefit from the fruits of your labour as much as they will. be lazy - take what you can get, these dudes know whats up. its much easier to enjoy life if you're lazy rather than working your fingers to the bone and getting all tired and miserable.

[Anthony]

just got home from a long nite of drinking. i didn;t have enough cash for a cab, so i had to take public transportation. it was around 3am, and i was looking for asian women waiting for the bus so i could pull my cock out and pee in front of them. i say asian women cuz where i took the bus there is a TON of asian people. it's called flushing, queens. many asian people live there. it annoys me, it looks like shanghai with all the asian stores. anyway i wanted a reason to expose myself in front of an asian woman, unfortunately there weren;t many around at that hour. i finally was able to go to a bank and have funds transferred to my atm card and was able to withdraw cash to take a cab home. viva la france.

[Raiders Army]

I'm not racist because I have white friends. Oh yeah, a black guy comes to empty out my trash at work and sometimes I eat Chinese, Mexican, and Italian.

[stevew]

Some dude at work and i were talking about a new restaurant(Golden Corral) that opened the next town over. And he drops the gem, "I wish they would have had the colored guy cooking the steaks....colored guys are usually pretty good cooks." I gave him the WTF look, and made some mention of how that isnt an appropriate word to use in reference to people. I didnt realize people still broke out "colored" when they were trying to be nice and not use the other word.

[jeff061]

Michael Bennet. Conservative Radio Commentator:

The former U.S. education secretary-turned-talk-show host said Wednesday that "if you wanted to reduce crime, you could — if that were your sole purpose — you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down."

He quickly added such an idea would be "an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do." But, he said, "your crime rate would go down."

From http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2002530440_watch30.html

I heard it on the radio this morning. He said it so calmly and cool, like it was a simple fact.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I think skin color just clouds things. I hate all stupid people. If they happen to be black, or white, or red, or purple, that's got nothing to do with the original reason I hate them.

But, it sure is a convenient, physical trait for people to point at and assume is the real reason.

[Subby]

Michael Bennet. Conservative Radio Commentator:

From http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2002530440_watch30.html

I heard it on the radio this morning. He said it so calmly and cool, like it was a simple fact. Yeah - it was precipitated by this gem from one of his callers:

"Bennett's comments came after a caller suggested Social Security would be better funded if abortion had not been legalized in 1973 because the nation would have more workers paying into the system."

[JonInMiddleGA]

This is when he trotted out this line. "Well, Im not a racist, but there used to be quite a few black people that worked here. Quite a few of them were lazy, and most of them got fired."

Often, but not always.

For an example of what I mean, I'll use the situation you described.

FTR, you know this guy & you were sitting there when he made the comment, so I'm going to assume that you had some reason to perceive the remark the way you did -- past history with the guy, other comments, tone, whatever -- so I'm not saying you read him wrong. I'm just using what you typed as an example of how it isn't 100% automatic either.

Given his 6 years on the job, which since you mentioned it I gather is significantly longer than you've been there he could have been simply been trying to clue you in on some company background -- the opening phrase meant to separate himself from that position while still letting you know there there's some company history to the subject.

And, if he had put added emphasis on the word I'm (as in an unspoken "there might be others here who are"), he might have really been trying to give you the straight scoop on something about the company without putting himself at any risk by coming right out & saying it.

Now, please remember what I said at the beginning -- I'm not saying you read the guy wrong, I'm just using the specific you gave as an example of how the phrase isn't an absolute slam dunk 100% of the time.
Nothing more, nothing less.

[Subby]

I think I have a bigger problem with people trying to qualify everything they say these days. Just say it. If you have the ability to back up your words with a reasoned argument, then fine. If you have to use a qualifier it usually means you are falling back on intellectually lazy/anecdotal experiences and perceptions.

[cuervo72]

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/cuervo72/arch.jpg

...I played one on tv!

[sterlingice]

Yeah, you know what. Most people in this nation were oppressed something-rathers when they got here. I also hate it when people suggest that every white man owned a black slave. And if they were really, really evil, they owned two. Enough of the stereotypes, I say. Let's get over it already and hate each other for more important and less trivial reasons.
Lithuanian, German, and Italian peasants here who hit the boat as soon as they could make it to America 100 years ago. Not exactly a slave owning lot ;)

SI

[sterlingice]

Does it irk you when someone says that? We were talking at work today about management. I was talking to one of the guys that has been there 6 years, and we were talking about how we feel that eventually, they will force out those supervisors that do not have a 4 year degree.
Isn't this a fairly "duh" proposition to make a post? When someone says "I'm not saying the Yankees suck", it's probably followed by something about their struggles with starting pitching or "I'm not saying I hate garlic" is probably followed about how strong it is and how it doesn't go in all foods. That's the phrase construction so I just can't wrap my head around why some people are surprised that "I'm not a racist but" is followed by a racist statement most of the time.

EDIT: tho Axxon has a good point about possibly using it as a descriptor for a subset of people- for example, there were 4 friends who were black and it's not because they were black that they were bad at their job but because they were all friends and screwed around at work and you are describing them as black because that was the most noticeable descriptor because they weren't the only guys, weren't the only middle aged guys, weren't the only guys who liked to eat spaghetti for lunch, but were the only black guys at your work.

SI

[Antmeister]

I'm not a racist either. (http://www.moviesoundscentral.com/sounds/48_hours/white_people.wav)

Classic. Couldn't even use the black text.

[QuikSand]

Now I ain't a racist...but Aris-tittle Oh-nay-ssis,
Is one Greek... we don't need.

-Kinky Friedman

[WSUCougar]

I'm not black, but --

Shit, I'm not very good at this.
Pics, plz, k, thks.

Oh, wait... :o

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm not racist but I love screwdrivers.

[QuikSand]

Here's the first problem:

...the radio show I'm listening to...


Anyway... this comment from Bennett (and also from the initial caller, incidentally) sounds like it comes from someone who read Freakonomics, managed to absorb one of its handful of ideas, and then decided to reprocess it without any of the tact and context that the book offered for it. Makes for great talk radio.