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jbmagic
10-22-2005, 11:49 AM
i saw this posted in my NAFL league.

Pretty interesting stuff.


I saw this post by Jim over at the IHOF board and found it very interesting. Its not often he talks about how the games work under the hut. It all started with people experienced to many points late in the game.

Jim wrote:
This shows pretty much what I'd expect it to show. FOF might have a little more scoring than the NFL in the last two minutes of the second half. And I'll explain the reason for that.

Here's the data (using Corey's numbers for the IHOF in 2008 - not a perfect representation because we did start the league with a skewed player file).

2Q - 5:00 and later: 14.7% of all NFL points, 14.7% of all IHOF points.
2Q - 2:00 and later: 8.5%, 9.1%
2Q - 1:00 and later: 5.4%, 6.2%

In the IHOF, there is exactly as much scoring late in the first half as there is in the NFL, with a little bit more coming in the last minute. I think FOF is a little more aggressive than the NFL in going for points late in the half.

4Q - 5:00 and later: 10.5% of all NFL points, 11.7% of all IHOF points.
4Q - 2:00 and later: 5.0%, 6.1%
4Q - 1:00 and later: 2.4%, 3.0%

Here, we see more scoring in the last two minutes of IHOF games. I believe this is because the game is likely to try for points even when ahead and in situations where it should do better running out the clock.

In general, more points are scored in the closing moments. Remember that teams are anxious to put points on the board, and will use the clock. And the clock stops on out-of-bounds plays in the last two minutes of the second quarter and the last five minutes of the fourth quarter. So there are more plays run during that time period.


Overall, the observations HFP and others have made just aren't borne out. I think when this happens to your team, it has an impact on you - you become very sensitive to anything that happens in the final minutes.

I've said this before, but it bears repeating.... There is no catch-up code in FOF. The play resolution engine is completely blind to the score and time remaining. Completely.

Now, there are ratings that change in these situations. A coach's motivational rating is applied to player ratings in the fourth quarter of close games (and the first quarter of tied games). The number of fourth-quarter comebacks a quarterback has affects his ratings. As does his two-minute offense rating. That's all. This may add up to about 5% more completions (1 completion in every 20 passes during a close-and-late situation).

The sum total of all these ratings, may, in extreme cases, add as much as 8% to an individual rating (a 60 plays like a 65). Remembering that both teams apply here, and most coaches are somewhere in the G-VG range, which probably limits the effect to a 3% differential.

Normally, I don't reveal much about the inner workings of the game. I felt it was important to give people more confidence that there's nothing hokey going on here. The AI has to take over and call some plays late in each half, there's no way around that and I understand the frustration when it gets that wrong. That's an area that can always stand improvement. But there's no catch-up code or miracles going on in the game.


http://www.fof-ihof.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5548&start=80

cthomer5000
10-22-2005, 12:06 PM
BTW, Jim incorrectly credits me in there. It was actually Celeval's data.

Celeval
10-22-2005, 12:57 PM
BTW, Jim incorrectly credits me in there. It was actually Celeval's data.
http://www.fof-ihof.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_rant.gifhttp://www.fof-ihof.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_rant.gifhttp://www.fof-ihof.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_rant.gif

I'm sure it's all Conti's fault. He gets the credit for everything.

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Warhammer
10-22-2005, 01:58 PM
Conti wrote this? This is going to wina Golden Scribe Award!

jbmagic
10-22-2005, 02:30 PM
Conti wrote this? This is going to wina Golden Scribe Award!


Jim did. that a Jim quote above.

Dutch
10-22-2005, 02:33 PM
Jim did. that a Jim quote above.
Are you sure? I'm pretty sure Conti was the culprit. Check your sources!!! :)

cthomer5000
10-22-2005, 02:41 PM
Ignore JB, I can confirm it was Conti.

Vinatieri for Prez
10-22-2005, 04:21 PM
"Now, there are ratings that change in these situations. A coach's motivational rating is applied to player ratings in the fourth quarter of close games (and the first quarter of tied games). The number of fourth-quarter comebacks a quarterback has affects his ratings. As does his two-minute offense rating."

Nice. Finally, confirmation on what the motivation ratings is for coaches. Jim, we need a few little more tidbits like this. I don't want the whole game opened up with specifics, but just knowing what the rating relates to helps. I've heard speculation about it effecting 4th quarter performance, but that's all. And I don't think anyone had a clue about the link to the 1st quarter performance.

Celeval
10-22-2005, 06:30 PM
so conti made this quote up and pretend it was from Jim?

thanks
Just in case anyone doesn't get the reference, and doubts Jim:

Conti (http://www.fof-ihof.com/player/player.php?playerid=1141)

WrongWay
10-22-2005, 08:25 PM
Watch your games and you will see a lot of CBs blitzing out of the Nickel and Dime formations. I noticed this even when I had my Blitz settings set to Zero for my CBs and Safetys.

This lead me to beleive that your Nickel and Dime CBs are using your LB blitz percentages. So, late ina game when you are using those Prevent formations to stop your opponent and cover all the extra WRs he is brining into the game your game plan is causing those extra CBs to blitz and leave the opposing WRs totally free.

That was my thing after watching the game logs and seeing all those CBs blitz out of the nickel and Dime, thus resulting in long pass completions.

Passacaglia
10-22-2005, 08:29 PM
The number of fourth-quarter comebacks a quarterback has affects his ratings.

Does this sentence seem backward to anyone else?

Dutch
10-22-2005, 08:45 PM
Does this sentence seem backward to anyone else?

Perhaps it's trying to create the "Brett Favre" syndrome or John Elway or whomever is famous for all those 4th qtr comebacks. As you get more experience and more 4th QB comebacks, you keep getting better playing in the 4th quarter while down.

gstelmack
10-22-2005, 08:47 PM
Does this sentence seem backward to anyone else?
Nope. It means a QB "develops" his fourth quarter skills by actually making comebacks. I consider it a mental thing where he gains confidence. Sure, having good skills to begin with increases the odds of this happening, so there is a bit of a feedback loop, but I'm fine with it as described.