Cheating.....GMac-ing going on!

[Clown2]

Is it legal to cut a player you just drafted and sign him to the league minimum With NO Bonus:
without giving any other team a shot to SIGN your newly cut PLAYER!

This was done in a 1-3week right after the DRAFT!
The TEAM cut the player they just drafted and signed him back during this time. No other team saw this player...that he was cut. Do to the FACT that the same team signed him back to the league minimum!>????
HELP!

[Joe]

clown?

[gottimd]

Who are you calling a clown?

[Clown2]

im called clown in my league...I dont want to state my league name....I dont want my commish mad at me.....
isnt this cheating!
cutting rookies signing them back at lower offers!
with NO bonus!

[sovereignstar]

uh.. yeah

[SackAttack]

If you're called Clown in your league, and your commish reads the boards here, won't he know anyway?

And why wouldn't you want him mad at you?

[Clown2]

PRIMETIME....we just booted gmac...and this guy didnt stop!
mind you were talking rounds 4-7 but i can see he's done it 2years in a row!

[Clown2]

cuz im new.....and I like the league...I dont want to lose my spot this game is the greatest game ever!

[Poli]

This thread has possibilities.

[Clown2]

anyone else help me on this cheating issue?

[DaddyTorgo]

as long as your GM isn't a douche and isn't in cahoots with this owner he should be happy man. and if he is an ass then you should just find a new MP league anyways.

[Flasch186]

tell your commish, he wont be mad, he would be thankful that you exposed this...unless the commish is cheating himself which them. well, leave the league anyways.

[Clown2]

THIS IS MY 1ST AND ONLY LEAGUE!
I'M NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO BRANCH OUT AND DO MORE THAN 1.
I told the commish thats the 1st thing I did.
We have a Great commish!
---
I must say I found this one.
Can't people just play honestly
I was 9-7 last year my 1st year ever!
I've got a nice draft this year I hope to win 10

[Nwobhm]

At least he coined the new term "Gmac-ing"

[kcchief19]

Uncle Leo?

[Clown2]

I am not very good at this game.
I want to be.

I started during the free agency: reading every log, every cut, every signing, every move.
I wanted to be like those who made the playoffs.
I watched who they signed. I tried to figure out why they signed them.
I really appreciate those of you who are good.
Today I stumbled upon something.

1) An owner who I was looking up to and trying to mirror his game.
Cut his 3 draft picks....I said why.... then he signed them again.
The same week which said...No one had the chance to sign them. Other than him.

His 4th rounder had no bonus while all the other 4th rounders spent 400,000 on the bonus.
you might say he took the chance in dumping them. Not really no one else saw them...
because he resigned them while the sim went from week 1 to week 3!

I must say today I was joking with this owner saying I was in his pocket taking small change to eat at subway.....
I hadn't found this information yet I was joking ...because I wanted to beat him. Beat him fair and square.
I'm very sad today.....I really like this owner.
I don't know if he is doing other things...that are considered not right....
I consider this owner a friend a good FRIEND.

signed a very very sad CLOWN#2

[sovereignstar]

Good stuff. It does look like one 'raider1' is pulling the same shit that got an owner in the same league sacked just a few weeks ago.

And this raider1 guy is a mod on the board. Classy.

[sovereignstar]

Shit, my bad. He's the Assistant Commish.

[Nwobhm]

He's also a member of the rules committee over there.

[DaddyTorgo]

classy fucking league there. in my mind commish/asst. commish should really be banned from having teams, just so they don't involved in these types of things

[monte_mcguire]

"PRIMETIME". We are working on the cheating problems and will get this fixed ASAP !!!!

[Clown2]

PrimeTime Football is a great League:
Our commish is a VERY HONEST commish.
I don't think its right to say anything bad about him!

[sovereignstar]

"PRIMETIME". We are working on the cheating problems and will get this fixed ASAP !!!!

Clown3???

[Clown2]

Clown3???
Monte McGuire is Clown 1 and ...do I ....smell a Stangger?

[sovereignstar]

Who's this clown then??

http://the-dkbl.com/dude.jpg

[Clown2]

dam....IM CUTE!
SHANE MCGUIRE
PROUD MEMBER OF PRIMETIME FOOTBALL
Future owner of a team in the IHOF.....
and Trophy Winner!

official GMAC inspector and MAD capilator
clown#2
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/1985bustinout/DSCF0767.jpg
clown#1
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/1985bustinout/Picture015.jpg

[monte_mcguire]

I don't remember signing a waiver to post my pics !!!! :eek: !!!! I'll live... You don't need to be smart when your this good lookin'

[Clown2]

Hide your players and Donkeys the Clowns are out for Blood!

[sovereignstar]

Do either of you clowns know anything about some pesky, little ice weasels that are on the loose?

[Galaxy]

I'm so lost....I keep think I'm gonna finance my car through GMAC.

[Icy]

If you're called Clown in your league, and your commish reads the boards here, won't he know anyway?

And why wouldn't you want him mad at you?
He is clown2 here, not clown, no way his league commish could know he is with that drastic nick change. Nobody would recognice you if you change your nick to SackAttack2 :D

[SackAttack]

He is clown2 here, not clown, no way his league commish could know he is with that drastic nick change. Nobody would recognice you if you change your nick to SackAttack2 :D

Why didn't I think of that? http://www.fof-ihof.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_dunce.gif

[WrongWay]

This is not exactly the same thing as Gmac-ing.

Gmac-ing involded using the Commisioner's Mode of the game to import and export fake stage files in order to "resign" your rookies players. The Gmac cheat never had the players hitting the Free Agent market.

This Dirty play only involves using the normal Particpant mode to hopefully sign a player for lower money. The players who are cut and then hopefully resigned still become free agents and go through the Free Agent process. This does not guarantee they will sign or that some team set to computer control may not put a bid on them either for those Free Agent stages.

It is still a Dirty, but it is not out and out cheating. Barring League House rules of course.

[jamesUMD]

Teams do not cut draft picks that are viable NFL players, so that they can sign them to lower offers. If anything the player would be much more likely to tell the team that drafted him, "due to past injustices, my client refuses to play for your team."

I disagree that this is not cheating. If I catch someone doing this in WigFL, I will dump every last penny I have into making sure that those players never make it onto the team that drafted them, and will go over every transaction they make with a fine tooth comb.

[Izulde]

Gmacing is a nifty term though. :D

[cuervo72]

Uncle Leo?

hahahahaha

[Raiders Army]

This is like the Twilight Zone of FOFC.

[QuikSand]

This Dirty play only involves using the normal Particpant mode to hopefully sign a player for lower money. The players who are cut and then hopefully resigned still become free agents and go through the Free Agent process. This does not guarantee they will sign or that some team set to computer control may not put a bid on them either for those Free Agent stages.

It is still a Dirty, but it is not out and out cheating. Barring League House rules of course.

This is out-and-out cheating to me... and if your view represents something shared by opponents in my leagues, I'll lobby for a rule to explicitly make this bullshit illegal.

[gottimd]

I have a grand idea.....just play the game the way it is supposed to be played like the other GM's do in your league and stop trying to find loop holes.

[wade moore]

I have a grand idea.....just play the game the way it is supposed to be played like the other GM's do in your league and stop trying to find loop holes.
This is crazy-talk.

[gottimd]

This is crazy-talk.
I've gone looney bins.

[sachmo71]

i thought the clowns were franklincapiscumnobles?

[Hoya1]

What other leagues is this guy in? Is it easy to tell?

[Hoya1]

From the Primetime forums
I agree, you have caught me red handed and I shall resign effective immediatley. Here are the keys to my team, it was a good run. Good luck to you all.

and 10 mins later...
Wait a minute...how am I cheating? If you rookies can explain it in a way that will clearly state that I have cheated in some form or fashion, I will gladly step a side.

[Flasch186]

then the commish should tell him "fuck you, take a walk."

[rkmsuf]

Uncle Leo?


Heeellllooooo.

[Ajaxab]

Do you remember your cousin Jeffrey? Do you know what his favorite animal is? It's the leopard. He likes its spots.

[PackerFanatic]

I am so confused by this thread, lol.

But from what it sounds like, this is exactly what GMac did.

[rkmsuf]

Uncle Leo, look at yourself. You're an adonis.

[JeeberD]

I am so confused by this thread, lol.

But from what it sounds like, this is exactly what GMac did.

Nah, it's not what Gmac did, but it IS cheating. This is something that Kodos pointed out over at IHOF during the whole Gmac thing...if you cut a rookie before you sign him (or, in fact, any player...but the impact isn't as dramatic since you take a cap hit) you can offer him a contract for much less DURING THE EXACT SAME STAGE. No other team has a chance to offer him a contract before he re-signs with your team. And free agents almost always accept offers (as long as they're not too low) during non-free agency periods.

[Ksyrup]

From the Primetime forums
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">I agree, you have caught me red handed and I shall resign effective immediatley. Here are the keys to my team, it was a good run. Good luck to you all. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


and 10 mins later...
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Wait a minute...how am I cheating? If you rookies can explain it in a way that will clearly state that I have cheated in some form or fashion, I will gladly step a side. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<!-- / message -->


My response to this would have been, "Sorry, you already gave me the keys, and now I've locked the doors."

[Hoya1]

One thing I don't understand is, when you release a guy don't you get the "past injustices" blurb when you try to re-sign them?
Does it not work because these guys were never signed to a contract?

[Clown2]

So if its NOT GMAC-ing then its RAIDER-GATE!

[Raiders Army]

I take offense at coining a negative term at the expense of the Raiders.

[QuikSand]

One thing I don't understand is, when you release a guy don't you get the "past injustices" blurb when you try to re-sign them?
Does it not work because these guys were never signed to a contract?

This is a glitch in multi-player. The "past injustuices" logic doesn't seem to kick in until you cut a guy and have that file processed by the central game. So, if you sumit an offer right away, in the same stage you cut the guy, the player considers it.

[stevew]

One thing I don't understand is, when you release a guy don't you get the "past injustices" blurb when you try to re-sign them?
Does it not work because these guys were never signed to a contract?
You go into commish mode, release them, and then save, and then open as your team, and its like they never know you cut them.

[QuikSand]

You go into commish mode, release them, and then save, and then open as your team, and its like they never know you cut them.

NO. This is a different cheat. You can do this on your own, no phony sign-in needed. THIS IS A DIFFERENT CHEAT THAN THE GMAC CHEAT.

[JeeberD]

Can someone in that league PLEASE point out to raider1 that the point he keeps making, "They were in the free agent pool and everyone had a shot at them" is not vaild because, if Clown2 is correct, he made the contract offers in the EXACT SAME STAGE. He signed them for a discoutned price before anyone else had a shot at them, period.

[Warhammer]

I just want to say I am glad this stuff doesn't happen in the leagues I am in.

[stevew]

NO. This is a different cheat. You can do this on your own, no phony sign-in needed. THIS IS A DIFFERENT CHEAT THAN THE GMAC CHEAT.damn, i thought that there was some Gmac-ing going on.

[sovereignstar]

da da da da da da da

Wow, it seems quite a few people are versed on the subject matter here. No, you can't just cut a rookie and re-sign the guy in the same stage. Sure, you can from your side of the game (as a GM), but the only thing that will happen when the commish imports is the release.

And if you try and re-sign this guy (without cheating) in a later stage, you'll get the past injustices box.

[Passacaglia]

Can someone in that league PLEASE point out to raider1 that the point he keeps making, "They were in the free agent pool and everyone had a shot at them" is not vaild because, if Clown2 is correct, he made the contract offers in the EXACT SAME STAGE. He signed them for a discoutned price before anyone else had a shot at them, period.

But the question is -- is Clown2 correct? If so, then the two lines, when he was cut, and when he was signed, should appear one above the other, right?

[Hoya1]

Can someone in that league PLEASE point out to raider1 that the point he keeps making, "They were in the free agent pool and everyone had a shot at them" is not vaild because, if Clown2 is correct, he made the contract offers in the EXACT SAME STAGE. He signed them for a discoutned price before anyone else had a shot at them, period.
exactly. This is what makes this cheating. You don't cut a guy, then decide in the same export that I really do want him.

[Clown2]

I dont think Raider1 needs a response. He knows what he did.
This is what he wrote me.

Thank you very much for your attempt to call me out on the boards. There was no need for a posting, if you would have asked me I would have explained what I did so that you would understand that what I did was not cheating. Do you really think I need to cheat? Give me a break! You are trying to hang me over late round draft picks that will more then likely be cut after training camp. This will all be resolved over time, it is just unfortunate that you would try to call me out.

_________________
Asst. Commish
Primetime Football League

Oakland Raiders
Vice President / General Manager
2005 PFL Bowl II Champions
2005 AFC Conference Champions
2006 AFC West Division Champions
2005 AFC West Division Champions

Do you see those championships .....those medals your wearing GENERAL
YOU NEVER SERVED IN BATTLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh and another thing you did it last year and cut those guys with NO bonus hit.....Raider1 You have NO honor and the reason you died is because God was watching!(in this case the god has a red nose and funny shoes...but he caught you!!

[stevew]

Teams do not cut draft picks that are viable NFL players, so that they can sign them to lower offers. If anything the player would be much more likely to tell the team that drafted him, "due to past injustices, my client refuses to play for your team."


I wish the game had a practice squad. Probably would be a nightmare to implement.

[VPI97]

I wish I could understand how people find it so hard to play the game in a fair manner.

[QuikSand]

But the question is -- is Clown2 correct? If so, then the two lines, when he was cut, and when he was signed, should appear one above the other, right?

I don't think anyone is arguing that this is an undetectable cheat.

Just that it's a cheat that does indeed get around the "injustices" logic in the game, and theoretically can be used to get cheaper contracts with your players.

[Passacaglia]

I don't think anyone is arguing that this is an undetectable cheat.

Just that it's a cheat that does indeed get around the "injustices" logic in the game, and theoretically can be used to get cheaper contracts with your players.

I agree. I just don't know if anyone's bothered to actually find out if they happened in the same stage.

[sovereignstar]

I agree. I just don't know if anyone's bothered to actually find out if they happened in the same stage.

oh really

[QuikSand]

I agree. I just don't know if anyone's bothered to actually find out if they happened in the same stage.

Explain to me how it happens any other way. If you cut a player, he will refuse to sign with you fr the rest of that year, on "injustices" grounds. If the player is cut by a team and signed by the same team -- there's only one way we know of that gets around that game logic -- and it's this cheat. Cut, offer, export -- guy takes a new deal before anyone else gets any chance to sign him. CHEAT.

[PackerFanatic]

I would assume that, unlike GMac's cheat, both transactions would show up (the release and the resign) That is a clearcut cheat (maybe not as a bad as going into commish mode, but still stupid)

[Passacaglia]

Explain to me how it happens any other way. If you cut a player, he will refuse to sign with you fr the rest of that year, on "injustices" grounds. If the player is cut by a team and signed by the same team -- there's only one way we know of that gets around that game logic -- and it's this cheat. Cut, offer, export -- guy takes a new deal before anyone else gets any chance to sign him. CHEAT.

Right...makes sense now.

[Raiders Army]

I have no idea why some people try to figure out exploits or cheats like this. Then again, I don't play multiplayer...actually not much FOF at all any more.

[Clown2]

weeks 1-3 after draft the person cut and signed his 3 rookies in the same export
There is Proof of this....
The Question we ask is why did he offer the league minimum for 2 players but the WR he offered 300,000 did he know what the WR would accept?
#2 He did this last year, he also cuts these 'last year players', with no Bonus HIT but a honest player like myself cuts a rookie after signing them after the draft gets a bonus hit.
PLAIN AND SIMPLE HE IS SAVING CAP MONEY----AND WERE NOT !!!
CHEAT STEAL AND SAVE!!!!
RAIDER-GATE GRIPS THE FRONT OFFICE FOOTBALL NATION!

[sachmo71]

oh really


oh really?

[gottimd]

oh really?
Really, oh?

[sachmo71]

I dont think Raider1 needs a response. He knows what he did.
This is what he wrote me.

Thank you very much for your attempt to call me out on the boards. There was no need for a posting, if you would have asked me I would have explained what I did so that you would understand that what I did was not cheating. Do you really think I need to cheat? Give me a break! You are trying to hang me over late round draft picks that will more then likely be cut after training camp. This will all be resolved over time, it is just unfortunate that you would try to call me out.

_________________
Asst. Commish
Primetime Football League

Oakland Raiders
Vice President / General Manager
2005 PFL Bowl II Champions
2005 AFC Conference Champions
2006 AFC West Division Champions
2005 AFC West Division Champions

Do you see those championships .....those medals your wearing GENERAL
YOU NEVER SERVED IN BATTLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh and another thing you did it last year and cut those guys with NO bonus hit.....Raider1 You have NO honor and the reason you died is because God was watching!(in this case the god has a red nose and funny shoes...but he caught you!!

please don't drag 'The Almighty®' into this. Next thing you know, we'll be hearing about this from a schoolbus driver.

[Raiders Army]

Really, oh?
Really, G

[JasonC23]

This is a very dramatic thread.

[sachmo71]

Really, oh?




Really, really.

[Clown2]

ALMIGHTY CLOWN! don't see no bus Driver?
i was quoting
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005950M.08._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[Galaxy]

I think I'm gonna go eat a Big Mac.

[sachmo71]

ALMIGHTY CLOWN! don't see no bus Driver?
i was quoting
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005950M.08._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg


Probably because the bus driver doesn't exist. Like god.

[monte_mcguire]

Crap! PRIMETIME has locked the posts, so now I can't post anymore!!!!

Raider wants to stay because he started the league. Weak.
This is the "It's my ball and I'm going home" mentality

[Poli]

This is a very dramatic thread.I told you this thread had possibilities.

[Clown2]

raider1 wrote:
Look, there is really no reason to argue over this. Apparently what I have done has upset some people so I will stop doing it. I hope that you will understand that I was not trying to cheat or gain anything from this. To be honest it really bothers me that you would not want me to stay in the league. I helped Justin form this league earlier this year and have devoted countless hours to it. I was in another league at the same time as this one and actually left over an issue in which my principals were being questioned. My goal was to help just start a league that was fun, where everyone could just be themselves and enjoy the game. As I said, I will cut the players in an effort to make things right.

[monte_mcguire]

If he really wanted to make it right he would resign like a man. At least GMAC went out with some class.

[Clown2]

raider1 wrote:
Look, there is really no reason to argue over this. Apparently what I have done has upset some people so I will stop doing it. I hope that you will understand that I was not trying to cheat or gain anything from this. To be honest it really bothers me that you would not want me to stay in the league. I helped Justin form this league earlier this year and have devoted countless hours to it. I was in another league at the same time as this one and actually left over an issue in which my principals were being questioned. My goal was to help just start a league that was fun, where everyone could just be themselves and enjoy the game. As I said, I will cut the players in an effort to make things right.

1. I want the 400,000 dollars the other 4th rounders got.(You never Paid)

2. I want the bonus money you cheated the league out of last year!

3. I want you to acknowledge NO ONE even saw let alone got a chance to sign your 3 guys you cut and resigned this year.

4. I want you to acknowledge you cut and signed 3draft picks last year, not paying bonus dollars to any of them.

5. I want you to acknowledge you Cheated.

6. I want the League to calculate how much bonus money you cheated the league out of the last 3 years.

7. I want you to give up your championship title.

8. I want you to no longer be the #2 commish.

[QuikSand]

raider1 wrote:
Look, there is really no reason to argue over this. Apparently what I have done has upset some people so I will stop doing it. I hope that you will understand that I was not trying to cheat or gain anything from this. (THEN WHY DO IT? - ed.) To be honest it really bothers me that you would not want me to stay in the league. I helped Justin form this league earlier this year and have devoted countless hours to it. I was in another league at the same time as this one and actually left over an issue in which my principals (sic) were being questioned. (GOOD ARGUMENT - I CHEATED SOMEWHERE ELSE, DON'T KICK ME OUT OF THIS LEAGUE TOO!) My goal was to help just start a league that was fun, where everyone could just be themselves (sic) (I AM A CHEATER AND AM JUST BEING MYSELF) and enjoy the game. As I said, I will cut the players in an effort to make things right. (I THINK THIS IS ENOUGH PUNISHMENT, DON'T YOU NOW?)

This is funny on many levels. My emphases and commentary added.

[VPI97]

That guy is a tool.

[Clown2]

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/oliphant/vc007260.jpg
I AM NOT A CROOK

[Clown2]

ANYONE WANT 2 HONEST CLOWNS IN THEIR LEAGUE?

[PackerFanatic]

lol...this thread is very interesting. I am so confused, lol.

[Clown2]

"How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg." - Abraham Lincoln.

[korme]

I just want to say I am glad this stuff doesn't happen in the leagues I am in.
That's so true.





Then again.. VPI did make the championship game in the very first year of GEFL... uh-oh!

[korme]

BTW, someone link me to the "Gmac Scandal". I have never even heard of it yet everyone knows about it but me.

[wade moore]

BTW, someone link me to the "Gmac Scandal". I have never even heard of it yet everyone knows about it but me.
what rock you been living under?

[PackerFanatic]

Haha, no kidding!

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=43507

[Clown2]

"The great masses of the people . . . will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one." --Adolph Hitler

[korme]

what rock you been living under?
Suicane's ass is HUGE

[WSUCougar]

ANYONE WANT 2 HONEST CLOWNS IN THEIR LEAGUE?
No, thanks, we've got 30+ of 'em in the IHOF already.

[Clown2]

mrsimperless
Division I

Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 706
Send a message via Yahoo to mrsimperless

I think it is ridiculous how the media has hyped this issue up to epic proportions. It's now become this week's shark attacks. I don't think that a 5% chance of someone cheating 50 million FOF players in multiplayer is really that big of a deal

CHECK THIS IP SOUNDS LIKE RAIDER---

[Buzzbee]

No, thanks, we've got 30+ of 'em in the IHOF already.
My! What big shoes you have Mr. Coug!!

[mrsimperless]

I only got through a page and a half of this mess. The writing quality/tone made me feel like I was reading a thread on some madden fan-boy board. Yikes!

[Buzzbee]

mrsimperless
Division I

Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 706
Send a message via Yahoo to mrsimperless

I think it is ridiculous how the media has hyped this issue up to epic proportions. It's now become this week's shark attacks. I don't think that a 5% chance of someone cheating 50 million FOF players in multiplayer is really that big of a deal

CHECK THIS IP SOUNDS LIKE RAIDER---

I only got through a page and a half of this mess. The writing quality/tone made me feel like I was reading a thread on some madden fan-boy board. Yikes!
Hmmm...maybe he should have read a little further?

[Kozure]

then the commish should tell him "fuck you, take a walk."


lmao, I'm not dissagreeing with you, but why aren't you like this over in the USFL?

[Clown2]

da da da da da da da

Wow, it seems quite a few people are versed on the subject matter here. No, you can't just cut a rookie and re-sign the guy in the same stage. Sure, you can from your side of the game (as a GM), but the only thing that will happen when the commish imports is the release.

And if you try and re-sign this guy (without cheating) in a later stage, you'll get the past injustices box.

THIS NEEDS TO BE SAID ......AGAIN...AND AGAIN!

[NoMyths]

Um, except for it doesn't.

We get the point, clown.

[WSUCougar]

My! What big shoes you have Mr. Coug!!
Is that a giant squirt gun, Mr. Buzz, or are you happy to see me?

[Clown2]

Um, except for it doesn't.

We get the point, clown.
NO, I don't think you do....people are siding with Raider.....
So, I guess the point is....cheating....is GOOD.....

[Buzzbee]

Is that a giant squirt gun, Mr. Buzz, or are you happy to see me?
Now, now. Only my wife gets to honk my horn.

[John Galt]

"You think you're better than me? You're going to die clown!"

[Clown2]

Ok hands off the clown!

[Pumpy Tudors]

hay guys whats going on up in this thread

[JeeberD]

NO, I don't think you do....people are siding with Raider.....


Who the heck is siding with him? I don't think I've seen a single person here say that it was OK to do what he did...

[rkmsuf]

Nobody likes an angry clown.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Who the heck is siding with him? I don't think I've seen a single person here say that it was OK to do what he did...
Given that much of this drama is coming from some other board somewhere, I wouldn't be surprised if he meant that people THERE are siding with this raider character.

How did FOFC get involved with this anyway?

[JasonC23]

JASONC@# SAYS THE CLOWN"S GOTTA POINT< LET"S ALL GO KICK RAIDER!"S ASS!!!!


(Note: Clown, you're correct, the guy cheated and should be removed from the league. I just enjoy how you've been expressing it. Consider this post a homage of sorts.)

[rkmsuf]

Given that much of this drama is coming from some other board somewhere, I wouldn't be surprised if he meant that people THERE are siding with this raider character.

How did FOFC get involved with this anyway?


board spillage

[Kozure]

NO, I don't think you do....people are siding with Raider.....
So, I guess the point is....cheating....is GOOD.....

I dont really see anyone siding with Raider1. Even the FOF's different commish's (which includes me) believe this is a bad thing. I even posted on my league's forums that similar actions will lead to lifetime ban and immediate notification of GM's actions to the FOF community.

Don't worry. Nobody likes cheaters on here.

[Clown2]

As I said on the board, I don't think it's really a big deal. He'll release the players, we'll craft a rule preventing this from happening again, and we'll all get on with our lives. Maybe he should be suspended or removed from the rules committee, but personally I don't think that's necessary.

1.what about last years cap money.
2. what about him doing this right after gmac....he should of fessed up then
theres more
What else has he done.?

will he keep trying to find a advantage against the system
when you try to get an advantage against another team....
what will keep you from doing it again!

I've jeperdized myself by bringing this up
NEXT TIME I CATCH A CHEATER
IM SAYING NOTHING AND HE CAN KEEP SCREWING EVERYONE!

[John Galt]

I've never understood the fear of clowns before . . .

[NoMyths]

NO, I don't think you do....people are siding with Raider.....
So, I guess the point is....cheating....is GOOD.....No, the point is that over here -- where we've answered your question and had a good bit of discussion on why cheating is bad -- has pretty much wrapped up any useful discussion. And while I already know that we're going to see another fifty posts from you in this thread restating the obvious again and again, it's not going to contribute to anything other than a lot of wasted bandwidth.

In other words: that line between "welcome to the community, your problem sucks, let us help out, alright bye" and "you're becoming a noisy, bothersome tween" is well at hand.

/grumpy nomyths
//my powers sense a disturbance in the force

[WSUCougar]

I've never understood the fear of clowns before . . .
Nobody's that happy forever. There's always a dark side, brother. And when it emerges, all the face paint and big noses in the world can't hide it.

[VPI97]

In other words: that line between "welcome to the community, your problem sucks, let us help out, alright bye" and "you're becoming a noisy, bothersome tween" is well at hand.Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

[Clown2]

I will say this in parting.....I feel I will not be considered a hero in my league.
I will be asked why I went to another board...I will be the one who gets in trouble NOT Raider. Raider will go on cheating. Sorry to bother you guys. Thanks for the info...

[RedKingGold]

Is this where the tragic hero dies?

Or can we pop the tatteling Bozo now???

[Pumpy Tudors]

I will say this in parting.....I feel I will not be considered a hero in my league.
I will be asked why I went to another board...I will be the one who gets in trouble NOT Raider. Raider will go on cheating. Sorry to bother you guys. Thanks for the info...
What exactly is "getting in trouble" anyway? I would think the worst is that you get kicked out of the league. It would be unwarranted, but I don't know what else you could mean. I mean, you're not going to go to jail over this shit, are you?

Are you?

[JeeberD]

Anyone who has been playing this game for any amount of time will know that I did not cheat because they understand how the game works.

http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Godzilla Blitz]

Interesting. Just spent a few minutes reading the discussion over at Primetime's league forums...

Initial discussion (http://primetime-football-league.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=911)
Secondary discussion (http://primetime-football-league.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=912)

Some thoughts:

Having a cheater in a league is definitely a black mark on the league, especially when it involves a co-commissioner. However, handling it well would serve as a message that the commishioner has his act together and that the league is run well. Currently, the commissioner is:

1. Defending the locking of threads
2. Upset that the discussion became public knowledge
3. Pissed that he has to deal with the issue.

A better commissioner response:

1. Open up discussion. Let people talk.
2. Accept responsibility for handling the issue. Being a commissioner means taking charge in these situations.
3. Kick Raider1 out of the league.
4. Strip Raider1's team of its championship title and give it to the Super Bowl runner up.

Raider1 himself is trying to say that he did nothing wrong, yet is offering to cut the players in question. Despite being an incredible contradiction, cutting the players in question is a ridiculously low punishment for what he did. The only way for Primetime to come out of this well is to remove Raider1 from the league. Any other response would be a message that cheating is tolerated.

[Subby]

this thread would be a billion times cooler if all these posts were from ctown.

:(

[Flasch186]

lmao, I'm not dissagreeing with you, but why aren't you like this over in the USFL?

BUSTED!!! no j/k....I think I havnt caught anyone blatantly cheating that was a rule at the time. The one time we busted someone using the minsal bug I believe the next day a checker came out. NOW the only thing that has reared up is the dreadful Hartford experiment, which I dont think was cheating...just stupid.

EDIT: to add and Remember Im the ass who had to deal with the Pseudo-nazi.

Ive earned my stripes from that alone.

[sachmo71]

this thread would be a billion times cooler if all these posts were from ctown.

:(


whatever happened to him? does he hand out at one of the other L33T boards?

[Poli]

This thread rules.

[cuervo72]

I've never understood the fear of clowns before . . .

Pretty sure my little brother was scarred by Killer Klowns From Outer Space....

[Pumpy Tudors]

I think ctown is still waiting for the right time to call.

[Raiders Army]

Clown2, are you seriously 38 years old?

[JeeberD]

Interesting. Just spent a few minutes reading the discussion over at Primetime's league forums...

Initial discussion (http://primetime-football-league.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=911)
Secondary discussion (http://primetime-football-league.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=912)

Some thoughts:

Having a cheater in a league is definitely a black mark on the league, especially when it involves a co-commissioner. However, handling it well would serve as a message that the commishioner has his act together and that the league is run well. Currently, the commissioner is:

1. Defending the locking of threads
2. Upset that the discussion became public knowledge
3. Pissed that he has to deal with the issue.

A better commissioner response:

1. Open up discussion. Let people talk.
2. Accept responsibility for handling the issue. Being a commissioner means taking charge in these situations.
3. Kick Raider1 out of the league.
4. Strip Raider1's team of its championship title and give it to the Super Bowl runner up.




He's just pissed that I beat his ass in the CFL this morning... :D

[WrongWay]

Wow, I didn't understand that this was a cheat to work around the games rules about singing a player that you cut. Yes, I said cheat, after reading this thread I have removed it form my dirty play and put it in the same category as Gmac-ing. It is a cheat and the owner or owners need to be tossed NOW!

Funny I am always amazed when one of these owners gets busted for cheating they never apoligize, but instead try to justify their actions blaming anyoner or anything they can.



EDIT: After reaing the entire thread I now understand that this is a cheat to work around the Game rules. The Game rules say you can't sign a player you cut in the same year. I don't understand how someone could say this was not a cheat now.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally posted by QuikSand:

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Clown2
raider1 wrote:
Look, there is really no reason to argue over this. Apparently what I have done has upset some people so I will stop doing it. I hope that you will understand that I was not trying to cheat or gain anything from this. (THEN WHY DO IT? - ed.) To be honest it really bothers me that you would not want me to stay in the league. I helped Justin form this league earlier this year and have devoted countless hours to it. I was in another league at the same time as this one and actually left over an issue in which my principals (sic) were being questioned. (GOOD ARGUMENT - I CHEATED SOMEWHERE ELSE, DON'T KICK ME OUT OF THIS LEAGUE TOO!) My goal was to help just start a league that was fun, where everyone could just be themselves (sic) (I AM A CHEATER AND AM JUST BEING MYSELF) and enjoy the game. As I said, I will cut the players in an effort to make things right. (I THINK THIS IS ENOUGH PUNISHMENT, DON'T YOU NOW?)
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


This is funny on many levels. My emphases and commentary added.


Gold.

[Poli]

Very nice, very nice, indeed.

[WrongWay]

BTW--- Could someone post a league where this cheat is going on.

I remember the DFL, Dynasty Football League, saying they were going to allow Gmac to continue playing in their league. I want to know what league is going to allow this to continue to play.


I just want to know what leagues to avoid like the plague. On a plus note, if I see any cheaters I will send them your way. Hey, I have heard about a Champion's League maybe this owner and Gmac could start a Cheater's league for all the banned owners out there?

[Poli]

I sure hope I can start cheating in the GEFL. That would definitely help me.

[SnowMan]

A Cheater's League would be SWEET! GMs can do whatever they want, however they can figure out to do it. No rules. Two GMs want to collude and tank one team to make another a powerhouse? No problem!!

*removes tongue from cheek*

[WSUCougar]

We all cheat like convicts in the IHOF. One guy has had, like, four 1st rounders in every draft we've had. Like people would actually trade that many to the defending champs? C'mon.

[jeff061]

It does seem odd the commish over there goes on the offensive a bit against Clown and on the defensive with the offender. Then threatens to quit while telling everyone to quit whining over locked posts. I'd consider that even more damaging than what Raider did if I was in that league.

Whatever, we can all feel better about our own leagues now :D.

[WrongWay]

It does seem odd the commish over there goes on the offensive a bit against Clown and on the defensive with the offender. Then threatens to quit while telling everyone to quit whining over locked posts. I'd consider that even more damaging than what Raider did if I was in that league.
LOL, this may be a first; where people are kicked out of a league for NOT cheating.

Worst league in FOF history? You have a commish locking threads and threatening to ban owners from the league who want to play by the rules. :D

[Shard77]

Guys,


I would just like to go on record as saying I am a member of the PFL. Our Commish is a solid citizen who cares about his league and his GM's. What happened in this case was wrong and unfortunate. It should have been dealt with in-house rather than on this public stage.

[Poli]

Note to self: Stay in leagues ran by VPI97.

[JeeberD]

Note to self: Stay in leagues ran by VPI97.

And leagues run by a five man Comish Council headed by Thul, right? RIGHT?!?!?

[Poli]

Right, that too.

[Passacaglia]

I just want to say, as much as he was cheating in this league, he really got hosed by the eNFL.

[CraigSca]

I'd just like to be a part of this thread in some way, shape or form. /waves, "Hi Mom!"

[Nwobhm]

I just want to say, as much as he was cheating in this league, he really got hosed by the eNFL.

He had 2 incidents in the eNFL.

The first case was when he backloaded a contract and claimed that he had merely offered the player what he wanted. When challenged by the committee to prove it by providing a screenshot, he declined. I wonder why? He was allowed to keep the player by doing a release/resign in the same export like he's done here.

He also didn't comply with our player usage rule by leaving in his preseason lineup full of scrubs for 4 weeks of the regular season, giving his opponents a bunch of cheap wins. He wound up getting censured for that.

So how was he hosed?

[Galaxy]

I'd just like to be a part of this thread in some way, shape or form. /waves, "Hi Mom!"

HI MOM!

[yabanci]

Guys,


I would just like to go on record as saying I am a member of the PFL. Our Commish is a solid citizen who cares about his league and his GM's. What happened in this case was wrong and unfortunate. It should have been dealt with in-house rather than on this public stage.

Why? It is a good thing that this kind of cheat and the cheater were brought to the attention of the entire multiplayer community.

[Flasch186]

Why? It is a good thing that this kind of cheat and the cheater were brought to the attention of the entire multiplayer community.

bingo

[Kozure]

the Pseudo-nazi.

that's a memory that I don't think anyone wants to conjure up anytime soon. *shiver*

[Kozure]

He was allowed to keep the player by doing a release/resign in the same export like he's done here.

If i remember right, he wasn't allowed to do it. he just did it. The rules committee eventually did allow him to keep the player after resigning him this way, but he pissed off a bunch of people by the release/resign.

[jeff061]

Indeed, I was on Raider's side of the argument when the scrubs situation went down in the eNFL. But after seeing how the PFL is handling this I much rather the response you can expect from the eNFL rules committee, for better or for worse.

[WrongWay]

Indeed, I was on Raider's side of the argument when the scrubs situation went down in the eNFL. But after seeing how the PFL is handling this I much rather the response you can expect from the eNFL rules committee, for better or for worse.
But I thought Kozure said the eNFL rules comittee just looked the other way and allowed a member of their league to continue to cheat, while pissing off the other owners in the league.


LOL.. Seems like members of the eNFL should of thrown out the rules committee and stopped this cheater themselves, or at least maybe impeached their Commish for looking the other way. Why any league out there would allow another owner in its league to cheat is beyond me.


I guess this should be a warning to all the owners out there that think this kind of thing does not happen in our leagues. There is cheating going on, and sometimes the League Commissioners know about it, but choose to look the other way.

Anyone spotting a Cheater in their league should do exactly what clown did and scream what they know to everyone who will listen. Both on your league boards and here at FOFC, that way the people in charge will not ba able to just look the other way. Congrats Clown!

[jeff061]

That's not what happened at all. The eNFL rules committee has generated some controversy, but none of it for being passive. Quite the opposite.

[WrongWay]

Then what did Kozure mean?



Were thing done out in the open or was it done like the PFL with the Commish locking threads and telling other owners they are not allowed to post about it?

[Fouts]

I take offense at coining a negative term at the expense of the Raiders.

Too late. I suppose nobody remembers the "The Holy Roller" from the cheatin' Raiders. This is why I hate the Raiders.

From Wikipedia;

The Holy Roller
Casper was also involved in another famous NFL contest on September 21, 1978, between the Raiders and San Diego Chargers. The Raiders trailed the Chargers 20-14 with just ten seconds left in the game. Oakland quarterback Ken Stabler, about to be sacked, flipped the football toward the goal line in an effort to save the game. Raiders running back Pete Banaszak recovered the ball at the San Diego 12-yard line but tossed the ball further forward to avoid a game-ending tackle. Casper kicked the ball at the San Diego 5-yard line and finally recovered it in the end zone to tie the game. The extra point attempt was good and Oakland won the game, 21-20.

[jeff061]

I can't quite remember the situation. Basically Raider signed a free agent to a contract against the house rules. He was forced to release him and take the cap hit, but then resigned him the same stage. It was then decided the cap hit was the desired penalty and he could keep the player. The RC did the same action with another GM later on.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys, that situation doesn't really stick out in my head. One thing is for sure though, the eNFL RC never looks the other way or turns a blind eye, that's been proven numerous times ;).


Were thing done out in the open or was it done like the PFL with the Commish locking threads and telling other owners they are not allowed to post about it?

RC discussion is done behind closed doors, but there are threads open to discuss it.

[WrongWay]

That is what scares me the most, I get the feeling that the PFL Commish is trying to cover everything up. This is a huge No-No in an online league where you don't actually know your fellow owners and their real relationships with eachother.

[WrongWay]

I can't quite remember the situation. Basically Raider signed a free agent to a contract against the house rules. He was forced to release him and take the cap hit, but then resigned him the same stage.

This is completely different now. If I read this correctly the owner was instructed to perform this cheat as part of his punishment. This is probably where he learned to do this cheat and he got busted when he did the cheat in another league.

His cheat was some type of backloaded contract. The sign and release was the eNFL rules committee's way to geta round the games rules to allow this owner to keep his player, but punish him at the same time.

[wade moore]

Awww man, looks like the commish cleaned out the threads...

Seriously... that league needs to just dissolve...

[stevew]

Too late. I suppose nobody remembers the "The Holy Roller" from the cheatin' Raiders. This is why I hate the Raiders.

From Wikipedia;

The Holy Roller
Casper was also involved in another famous NFL contest on September 21, 1978, between the Raiders and San Diego Chargers. The Raiders trailed the Chargers 20-14 with just ten seconds left in the game. Oakland quarterback Ken Stabler, about to be sacked, flipped the football toward the goal line in an effort to save the game. Raiders running back Pete Banaszak recovered the ball at the San Diego 12-yard line but tossed the ball further forward to avoid a game-ending tackle. Casper kicked the ball at the San Diego 5-yard line and finally recovered it in the end zone to tie the game. The extra point attempt was good and Oakland won the game, 21-20.
Just saw a special about that play(and others) the other day. Complete garbage, the refs should have called it back. Its the reason for that "no advancing a fumble in the last 2 mins of a game rule, right?

[Raiders Army]

Too late. I suppose nobody remembers the "The Holy Roller" from the cheatin' Raiders. This is why I hate the Raiders.

From Wikipedia;

The Holy Roller
Casper was also involved in another famous NFL contest on September 21, 1978, between the Raiders and San Diego Chargers. The Raiders trailed the Chargers 20-14 with just ten seconds left in the game. Oakland quarterback Ken Stabler, about to be sacked, flipped the football toward the goal line in an effort to save the game. Raiders running back Pete Banaszak recovered the ball at the San Diego 12-yard line but tossed the ball further forward to avoid a game-ending tackle. Casper kicked the ball at the San Diego 5-yard line and finally recovered it in the end zone to tie the game. The extra point attempt was good and Oakland won the game, 21-20.
Wah, wah, wah. It wasn't against the rules. I've gotten over the tuck rule, you should get over this. :)

[WrongWay]

I've never understood the fear of clowns before . . .

Then you have obviously never seen the cult film Killer Klowns from Outer Space. A great film.


http://www.foflive.com/teams/Pittsburgh/mainkill.jpg
http://imdb.com/title/tt0095444/
Tagline: In Space No One Can Eat Ice Cream!

[WrongWay]

Wah, wah, wah. It wasn't against the rules. I've gotten over the tuck rule, you should get over this. :)
What are you talking about? It is against the game rules to sign a player you released the same year. Cheater...Cheater...Cheater...

[Raiders Army]

What are you talking about? It is against the game rules to sign a player you released the same year. Cheater...Cheater...Cheater...
Reading is always a good skill to have.

[cuervo72]

Then you have obviously never seen the cult film Killer Klowns from Outer Space. A great film.

This might be insightful, were it not mentioned 35 posts ago.

[John Galt]

This might be insightful, were it not mentioned 35 posts ago.

Are you actually expecting people to read the threads BEFORE the post???? Some people.

[Kozure]

My mistake, the rules committee DID allow him to resign him as part of their resolution of the backloaded contract he offered his player. I was mixing up a different incident that happened in the eNFL.

But, i was never saying that the rules committee was doing something wrong. I thought the GM that did the release/resigning of a player was something that the eNFL Rules Committee didn't expect when the GM was ordered to release the player. They eventually ruled that GM could keep the player (after the release/resign), but created a rule that outlawed the release the signing of a player during the same stage. The player MUST have a chance to be on the FA market.

[Passacaglia]

He also didn't comply with our player usage rule by leaving in his preseason lineup full of scrubs for 4 weeks of the regular season, giving his opponents a bunch of cheap wins. He wound up getting censured for that.

That really blows over a lot of what happened.

[DanGarion]

Hasn't anyone been banned from the board yet?

[flere-imsaho]

Note to self: Stay in leagues ran by VPI97.

Taco does an excellent job running the CFL.

[JimKizer]

Things You Think but Do NOT SAY!
MINUTES FROM PFL LEAGUE MEETING
1. First thing commish says; I TRUST raider1 completely
1b. Clown1 Quits; due to Commish's statment
1c. Cbear quits: due to Commish's statement
1d. playitagain. threatens if Raider goes he goes.
2. commish steps down
3. commish steps up
4. commish steps down
5. commish steps up
6. league vote to ask did Raider do anything wrong.
6b. Clowns abstain from vote.
7. Raider refuses to answer if he benefited from cheating
8. shard runs to FOF board to say I love you commish and slams clowns, for blowing the whistle on CHEATING.
9. FACTS come out Commish knew about cheating 3 days before Clown told commish "He found CHEATING"
Commish did nothing both times.
10. Clown is screamed at for Taking CHEATING AROUND THE WORLD.
PENALTY PHASE:
RAIDER PUNISHED BUT NOT FIRED
10B INFO REVEALED: raider is leaving after season anyways to be in coast guard
GREEN BAY PACKER CLOWN 1 WALKS OFF disgusted
The right thing was not done!
--signed Former PFL member

[VPI97]

Go Team Venture!

[sachmo71]

Things You Think but Do NOT SAY!
MINUTES FROM PFL LEAGUE MEETING
1. First thing commish says; I TRUST raider1 completely
1b. Clown1 Quits; due to Commish's statment
1c. Cbear quits: due to Commish's statement
1d. playitagain. threatens if Raider goes he goes.
2. commish steps down
3. commish steps up
4. commish steps down
5. commish steps up
6. league vote to ask did Raider do anything wrong.
6b. Clowns abstain from vote.
7. Raider refuses to answer if he benefited from cheating
8. shard runs to FOF board to say I love you commish and slams clowns, for blowing the whistle on CHEATING.
9. FACTS come out Commish knew about cheating 3 days before Clown told commish "He found CHEATING"
Commish did nothing both times.
10. Clown is screamed at for Taking CHEATING AROUND THE WORLD.
PENALTY PHASE:
RAIDER PUNISHED BUT NOT FIRED
10B INFO REVEALED: raider is leaving after season anyways to be in coast guard
GREEN BAY PACKER CLOWN 1 WALKS OFF disgusted
The right thing was not done!
--signed Former PFL member

i'm lost. :(

[Pumpy Tudors]

Pardon my Walloon, but...

WHY THE FUCK IS ALL THIS DISCUSSION HERE?

[John Galt]

i'm lost. :(

paging flere.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So, if I'm reading this right ...

1)Some complete asshole cheated
2)Some disgrace of a commish found cheating tolerable
3)The majority of the league puts up with both the asshole cheater AND the idiot commisioner
4)The villian of the piece turns out to be the guy who outed the cheater.

And anybody wonders why I have zero interest in ever playing a game MP style?

Sheesh.

[rkmsuf]

Pardon my Walloon, but...

WHY THE FUCK IS ALL THIS DISCUSSION HERE?


we are supposed to pretend we care

[VPI97]

What's a Walloon?

[Celeval]

I've never understood the fear of clowns before . . .
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=43931

[Shard77]

Why? It is a good thing that this kind of cheat and the cheater were brought to the attention of the entire multiplayer community.

Yaba,

I have no problem exposing pontential game cheats to the community. What is unforunate is that when the GM originally discovered the issue it wasn't discussed and resolved in-house first, rather than discussing it here instead. If he wanted to post here to expose a particular player, that's his business. However, the PFL has a lot of good owners and a dedicated commish and the way things have played out here, it makes everyone in the league look bad. Which I feel is unfair. JMHO.

[JeeberD]

I hate to bring this up, but after seeing his actions as Commish I kinda worry about having jshipman in some of my MP leagues...

[JonInMiddleGA]

However, the PFL has a lot of good owners and a dedicated commish and the way things have played out here, it makes everyone in the league look bad. Which I feel is unfair. JMHO.

That isn't what makes the league look bad.

That'd be:
The tolerance for a cheater, the support for a commisioner who tolerates cheating, the complaints about a player who exposed a cheater.

THAT'S what makes the members of the league look bad, not the discussion.
JMNSHO.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Yaba,

I have no problem exposing pontential game cheats to the community. What is unforunate is that when the GM originally discovered the issue it wasn't discussed and resolved in-house first, rather than discussing it here instead. If he wanted to post here to expose a particular player, that's his business. However, the PFL has a lot of good owners and a dedicated commish and the way things have played out here, it makes everyone in the league look bad. Which I feel is unfair. JMHO.
I think it would have been wise for Clown to bring the issue to the commissioner's attention first before making it public, but publically announcing the cheating is nothing compared to the act of cheating itself.

The reaction at Primetime seems to be the other way: the whistle-blower is getting chastised for bringing the issue in the open and the league scrambles to cover the issue up by stifling discussion and deleting threads. No matter how hard the league tries to cover up the issue, the issue would have come into the open anyway. The current reaction only serves to inflame the issue more.

The league's reaction to the issue has done far more to tarnish the league's image than the cheating did; the whistle-blowing did nothing to tarnish the league's image. Clown's first posts in this thread are mainly trying to figure out if what Raider1 did is actually cheating or not.

I would think a commissioner would welcome a player that watches league transactions as closely as Clown 2 did; with so many things going on, eyes at that level of detail would be very helpful for catching shady behavior.

[JimKizer]

Yaba,

I have no problem exposing pontential game cheats to the community. What is unforunate is that when the GM originally discovered the issue it wasn't discussed and resolved in-house first, rather than discussing it here instead. If he wanted to post here to expose a particular player, that's his business. However, the PFL has a lot of good owners and a dedicated commish and the way things have played out here, it makes everyone in the league look bad. Which I feel is unfair. JMHO.

1. commish was told 5days ago. He did nothing!
2. clown told commish days ago. He did nothing!
3. clown sounds alarm!

[JeeberD]

I think it would have been wise for Clown to bring the issue to the commissioner's attention first before making it public, but publically announcing the cheating is nothing compared to the act of cheating itself.

I believe he did contact the commish before coming here, but I don't think he waited to get a response before he started this thread...

[Buzzbee]

1. commish was told 5days ago. He did nothing!
2. clown told commish days ago. He did nothing!
3. clown sounds alarm!
*confused*

Commish was told 5 days ago.
clown told commish days ago.




Okay, so clown wasn't the first to tell Commish. Then who was? Raiders1? Was he coming clean?

[Eaglesfan27]

But I thought Kozure said the eNFL rules comittee just looked the other way and allowed a member of their league to continue to cheat, while pissing off the other owners in the league.


LOL.. Seems like members of the eNFL should of thrown out the rules committee and stopped this cheater themselves, or at least maybe impeached their Commish for looking the other way. Why any league out there would allow another owner in its league to cheat is beyond me.


I guess this should be a warning to all the owners out there that think this kind of thing does not happen in our leagues. There is cheating going on, and sometimes the League Commissioners know about it, but choose to look the other way.

Anyone spotting a Cheater in their league should do exactly what clown did and scream what they know to everyone who will listen. Both on your league boards and here at FOFC, that way the people in charge will not ba able to just look the other way. Congrats Clown!
Tredwel certainly didn't look the other way. Neither did the eNFL's rule committee. We approached the owner in question and gave him an opportunity to rectify the situation. When that didn't happen, we took action. If anything, the eNFL rules committee is blamed for sticking to the letter of the rules too much and enforcing too many rules, however, I think situations such as what have been happening in other leagues recently make me glad that we do that.

Tredwel does an amazing job of running our league, and we have many high quality, high character owners in the eNFL.

[jeff061]

Wow, what a joke the PFL is. Who's the commish? I'd put more blame on him than Raider for the downfall of that league. It's like there was a carefully thought out plan to do everything the wrong way.

think situations such as what have been happening in other leagues recently make me glad that we do that.

100% agreed. And I've pretty much echoed your sentiments as well.

[Chas in Cinti]

I'm crying I'm laughing so hard... this is the best thread of the week...

[Kozure]

Tredwel certainly didn't look the other way. Neither did the eNFL's rule committee. We approached the owner in question and gave him an opportunity to rectify the situation. When that didn't happen, we took action. If anything, the eNFL rules committee is blamed for sticking to the letter of the rules too much and enforcing too many rules, however, I think situations such as what have been happening in other leagues recently make me glad that we do that.

Tredwel does an amazing job of running our league, and we have many high quality, high character owners in the eNFL.

Yes, the eNFL handled the situation the best it could.

[jshipman2]

You all can expect a full explanation of everything later tonight. Not that I feel that I need to explain myself to anyone on this forum but I will. Here is the punishment agreed upon by the members of the PFL.

1. Releases all drafted players signed to illegal contracts over the past 2 seasons (Including CB Ellis).
2. Receives a $700k cap hit by signing the worst FA punter and then releasing him.
3. Forfeits next year's first round draft pick.
4. Steps down from all positions of leadership. Eligible for reinstatement after 3 seasons by league-wide vote (Two-thirds majority).

Feel free to criticize all you want, it doesn't hurt me any...after all it is JUST A GAME!

[JonInMiddleGA]

You all can expect a full explanation of everything later tonight. Not that I feel that I need to explain myself to anyone on this forum but I will. Here is the punishment agreed upon by the members of the PFL.

1. Releases all drafted players signed to illegal contracts over the past 2 seasons (Including CB Ellis).
2. Receives a $700k cap hit by signing the worst FA punter and then releasing him.
3. Forfeits next year's first round draft pick.
4. Steps down from all positions of leadership. Eligible for reinstatement after 3 seasons by league-wide vote (Two-thirds majority).

Feel free to criticize all you want, it doesn't hurt me any...after all it is JUST A GAME!

Y'know, I think you & the majority of league members are really well suited for one another.

[PackerFanatic]

Why? It is a good thing that this kind of cheat and the cheater were brought to the attention of the entire multiplayer community.

I completely agree with this statement. I don't think that the member that brought forth this issue should be punished at all. The whole term "G-Macing" was brought into play by me anyways! lol, my league got more exposure from the whole G-Mac incident than ever before. I feel that if someone is going to stupid about their cheating (granted, this may be a different situation but still fits) that the entire closeknit community of FOFC should know. This is just a game and if people are going to ruin it for other people, shit needs to be done about it. If I thought my league was going to get a bad rap about the situation, I wouldn't have said a word. But I wanted to know how everyone else felt about it and it ended up being a big deal around here. Do I regret doing that and having people look down on the FastFL? No, because if people look down on the FastFL for this, I would be very confused. We deal with issues, we do not turn our backs on it. Which is why I brought it up here. Which is what should be done. Cheaters suck, they shouldn't be allowed to ruin this for everyone else who is having fun and putting in their time and effort. Plain and simple.

[PackerFanatic]

Can I get an amen? :)

[Play2Win]

Just to be clear...before people start to bash me for the remarks im about to make...i joined this forum about 10 minuites ago so that i could comment on this issue...my comments are not intended to insult anybody and i am not saying that it would be ok to cheat....in fact i was as upset to find out about this as anybody else was...but...
its a huge mistake to think that JShipman is a bad commish
he is as fair minded a person as i have ever seen in any internet game
and i have played madden online for 6 years...played abcs monday night football 98 for 5 years and have played FOF for the last 4 months...participating in several leagues to find the ones i liked the best...
currently im in 4 leagues and PFL is as good a league as ive seen
im not saying its the best...but its just as good as any other league
Obviously we were all upset to find that Raider1 had made these moves and yes--theres no way around it--its cheating...but if you look at what he did and the impact it had...i dont think you can compare what he did to what Gmac did...The Penalty handed down was fair...and we did not want to lose Raider1 as a league member...or he would have been expelled
The Problem with all of this is that its in very bad taste for a league member to come here and post all the leagues dirty laundry for all to see before any resolution can be decided upon....and posting about these kinds of things only makes people less likely to join a Good League like ours and help keep it full...there was never any doubt that some form of punishment would be handed down and Raider1 would have to deal with it...these 2 "Clowns" make a mockery of our message boards with their Ridiculous posts and Rants about some of the dumbest things you've ever heard....and then they run and scream at the top of their Lungs that they "found a cheater" like they should be praised as heros...JShipman certainly was put in an awkward position by all of this...since Raider1 for all intents and Purposes is his Mentor...but he did force a ruling from a group of the leagues Owners last Night and it is being enforced--and accepted by Raider1.
PFL has its share of Problems like any other league
JShipman deals with them in a first class way
anyone who says differently...i challenge you to join PFL and see for yourself
dont base your opinions or pass judgements on what you read here
come and experience it for yourself
i would have just read this and not bothered to comment
until people started to attack JShipman
i consider him a friend and a good commish
ask yourself this question....
if you met someone and they introduced you to this game
and then you became a commish and discovered that they did something wrong...would it be difficult to take action against them?
Difficult or not--JShipman did it...and he deserves credit for doing it...
he doesnt deserve to be bashed like this--or have his league bashed like this

[Poli]

I could sum it up for you.

A cheater has to go.

[sovereignstar]

Is it just my eyes or did someone find a way to use a typewriter in conjunction with FOFC?

[Poli]

Is it just my eyes or did someone find a way to use a typewriter in conjunction with FOFC?
Good catch.

[Raiders Army]

Blah, blah, blah, PFL has its share of Problems, blah, blah, blah
That's what I read.

[Raiders Army]

Oh, and another thing...personally I could care less what you do to him in your league. That's your business; however, I don't fault other people for informing the rest of the FOF community of what happened just in case this guy is in their league.

[Joe]

Maybe its just me, but I get the feeling that NOTHING would have been done about this had the clown not spoken up, just swept it under the rug. 3 days is a long time to know about something like this for the Commish to not say or do anything.

[PackerFanatic]

Oh, and another thing...personally I could care less what you do to him in your league. That's your business; however, I don't fault other people for informing the rest of the FOF community of what happened just in case this guy is in their league.

Like I said, the guy(s) shouldn't be chastised for coming here and saying what they did. You put it well, RA.

[jshipman2]

Maybe its just me, but I get the feeling that NOTHING would have been done about this had the clown not spoken up, just swept it under the rug. 3 days is a long time to know about something like this for the Commish to not say or do anything.

Just an FYI, it wasn't 3 days or 5 days like many have posted. I have the PMs to prove that it was ONE NIGHT! I swear on this and can post screenshots of the PMs to prove it. I'm working on a full statement, whether it matters or not.

[MJ4H]

This is all very strange. If I were in a league with a player that knowingly broke the rules to gain an advantage (cheated), and that player was not permanently removed from the leauge, I would resign my place in the league immediately. I don't think people realize how destructive cheating is to leagues like this (I'm a former commissioner myself).

Just my 2 cents.

[Poli]

Go Razorbacks.

[jeff061]

Play2Win you, and probably others, are missing the point. No one was looking down at the PFL for what Raider did and thus no one was looking down at the PFL for what clown posted. Any league could have a cheater, no real way to guard against. It's the league's response that people judge and you guys failed miserably. And still are.

[NoMyths]

Methinks their lack of removing the cheater is probably due to several/all of them knowing each other in real life, and the problems that could arise from such a situation. I've also got to assume that they're all in their (early) teens.

At least, it's the only way I can make sense of their actions. Not that I'm really too concerned with the whole mess. :)

[Play2Win]

Play2Win you, and probably others, are missing the point. No one was looking down at the PFL for what Raider did and thus no one was looking down at the PFL for what clown posted. Any league could have a cheater, no real way to guard against. It's the league's response that people judge and you guys failed miserably. And still are.

No Jeff
its you who is missing the point
a big part of an online game is the friends you make
This Guy Raider1 is our Friend
we like him and want him to stay
he made a mistake--and hes being punished for it
he didnt rob a bank--he didnt kill anybody
and its not the same thing as what Gmac did
we didnt want him to leave the league
even as disappointed as we were in what he did

before somebody runs and squeels to the world about things
let the league decide on a course of action
you guys sat here and criticized every move the league made
but the league didnt really know how to handle this exactly...
and should have had time to figure things out--and THEN notify FOFC about the person and the problem

nobody likes a snitch...
and thats what we have--why is a post on here containing quotes from a league discussion last night in our leagues chatroom?
what kind of an asshole copies that and pastes it on here?
this has gotten way out of hand...its a damn witch hunt

[NoMyths]

No Jeff
its you who is missing the point
a big part of an online game is the friends you make
This Guy Raider1 is our Friend
we like him and want him to stay
he made a mistake--and hes being punished for it
he didnt rob a bank--he didnt kill anybody
and its not the same thing as what Gmac did
we didnt want him to leave the league
even as disappointed as we were in what he did

before somebody runs and squeels to the world about things
let the league decide on a course of action
you guys sat here and criticized every move the league made
but the league didnt really know how to handle this exactly...
and should have had time to figure things out--and THEN notify FOFC about the person and the problem

nobody likes a snitch...
and thats what we have--why is a post on here containing quotes from a league discussion last night in our leagues chatroom?
what kind of an asshole copies that and pastes it on here?
this has gotten way out of hand...its a damn witch huntGod, you're so right...it's so much better to be disappointed in someone who cheats all of you than tolerate an asshole who tries to rectify the situation that y'all clearly couldn't handle appropriately.

[jeff061]

Okay play2win. If you joing the PFL and you are not part of the elite circle of friends you get screwed. Sounds like a rock solid way to run a league to me.

and thats what we have--why is a post on here containing quotes from a league discussion last night in our leagues chatroom?
what kind of an asshole copies that and pastes it on here?

Someone who wants to make sure you don't join unless you are a friend of the commish.

[Play2Win]

Methinks their lack of removing the cheater is probably due to several/all of them knowing each other in real life, and the problems that could arise from such a situation. I've also got to assume that they're all in their (early) teens.

At least, it's the only way I can make sense of their actions. Not that I'm really too concerned with the whole mess. :)

assume makes an ass out of U and me
im 41 years old...
and never had any contact with any of these guys until august of this year
they dont live in the same state as i do
and i dont know them outside of the game
you sound like an asshole who thinks he knows everything....
should i "assume" you are one?

[jshipman2]

No Jeff
its you who is missing the point
a big part of an online game is the friends you make
This Guy Raider1 is our Friend
we like him and want him to stay
he made a mistake--and hes being punished for it
he didnt rob a bank--he didnt kill anybody
and its not the same thing as what Gmac did
we didnt want him to leave the league
even as disappointed as we were in what he did

before somebody runs and squeels to the world about things
let the league decide on a course of action
you guys sat here and criticized every move the league made
but the league didnt really know how to handle this exactly...
and should have had time to figure things out--and THEN notify FOFC about the person and the problem

nobody likes a snitch...
and thats what we have--why is a post on here containing quotes from a league discussion last night in our leagues chatroom?
what kind of an asshole copies that and pastes it on here?
this has gotten way out of hand...its a damn witch hunt

Things that happened in our chatroom, are not for everyone else to see. You've got to at least give us that.

[jeff061]

Things that happened in our chatroom, are not for everyone else to see. You've got to at least give us that.

Seems to me you guys ran two innocents out of your league and kept the cheater in that night. What did you expect really?

[NoMyths]

You sound like the dumbest 41-year-old I've ever heard. How about you pack up your sense of justice and your blather and head back over to your sandbox, where you can go back to making nice with the idiot who cheated you?

[Play2Win]

You sound like the dumbest 41-year-old I've ever heard. How about you pack up your sense of justice and your blather and head back over to your sandbox, where you can go back to making nice with the idiot who cheated you?

awww...did somebody hurt your feelings?

[Poli]

I smell a banning brewing.

[WrongWay]

You all can expect a full explanation of everything later tonight. Not that I feel that I need to explain myself to anyone on this forum but I will. Here is the punishment agreed upon by the members of the PFL.

1. Releases all drafted players signed to illegal contracts over the past 2 seasons (Including CB Ellis).
2. Receives a $700k cap hit by signing the worst FA punter and then releasing him.
3. Forfeits next year's first round draft pick.
4. Steps down from all positions of leadership. Eligible for reinstatement after 3 seasons by league-wide vote (Two-thirds majority).

Feel free to criticize all you want, it doesn't hurt me any...after all it is JUST A GAME!

You know what I don't see....Any punishment for the Comissioners actions.
a) The fact that the Comish was trying and did look the other way.
b) The fact that the Comish was locking posts.
c) The fact the the Comish was deleting posts.
d) The fact that a Comish was going to Fire a whistle blower.

I think the Comissioner of this league is just as guilty as the owner who performed this cheat.


I was the Whistle-blower on the Gmac cheat and I did the same thing that Clown did; I informed my Commish at the FastFL. I then set back and waited to see what happened. Care to guess who brought this cheater to the FOFC's attention by starting a new thread? It was my Comisisoner himself who started the Gmac thread here at the FOFC.



I know some league out there have an all powerfull Comish handing down the law form above, others have a closed door rules committee watching out for them, but me I prefer the FastFL's open door all owners created equal approach. And, that is why I aplaud what Clowns did even though like many whistle blowers before him it may cost him his position in the PFL.

[NoMyths]

awww...did somebody hurt your feelings?Not at all. I'd need someone to cheat me for that to happen.

[NoMyths]

I smell a banning brewing.;)

[Play2Win]

awww...did somebody hurt your feelings?

next you'll be attacking my family or trying some other form of personal attack to make yourself look BIG...when all that does is show everyone how SMALL you really are....

[PackerFanatic]

Amen. :)

[jshipman2]

Just so everyone knows, Clown2, who originally posted this isn't quiting the league and has in fact said that if Raider1 leaves, so does he! So how about that for some food for thought!

[jeff061]

You're all insane. I don't even want to attempt to think about that one :).

[Flasch186]

I have since penalized both Clown, Raider, and Sovereignstar in my league. Clown will lose a first round pick, Raider will have to cut someone, and Jeff has to spend a road trip with Yiannis the pseudo-nazi. I slam my gavel and I have ruled, the ALL POWERFUL COMMISH!!!!!!! BIG AND SMALL ARE THE SAME SIZE WHEN USING CAPS!!!! Im drunk

[NoMyths]

next you'll be attacking my family or trying some other form of personal attack to make yourself look BIG...when all that does is show everyone how SMALL you really are....My god! It's like being in the room with a giant of psychology!

You've really done a great job of putting me in my place, oh 41-year-old font of justice and wisecracks. I can completely see why your league is going so well.

Other than that, take care. If you've further genius observations to make, please consider putting them in your pipe and smoking them.

[Play2Win]

This could all have been avoided...if the league had been given time to make a ruling and then let the commish post on here what happened and what was done about it...

The personal attacks ought to stop too
they accomplish nothing and just make everyone associated with FOFC look bad...im sorry if people on here dont agree with what we did...or how we handled things...or even what i myself said about it....

But i wont ever forget what shane -clown2- did here...
it was the wrong way to handle things
and if i ever find out who copied and pasted from our leagues chatroom
ill knock their teeth down their throat
thats the lowest from of scum on this earth
im going to get some sleep now
goodnight all
happy argueing

[PackerFanatic]

*shakes head* goodness...

[Play2Win]

My god! It's like being in the room with a giant of psychology!

You've really done a great job of putting me in my place, oh 41-year-old font of justice and wisecracks. I can completely see why your league is going so well.

Other than that, take care. If you've further genius observations to make, please consider putting them in your pipe and smoking them.

you just wont stop will ya?
determined to try and keep this going huh?

[PackerFanatic]

P2W, just stop, alright? You are the one keeping logs on the fire here. The situation is being handled, we know you don't like what he did, no need to keep needlessly arguing with everyone.

[st.cronin]

I love FOFC.

[duckman]

In before the lock.

[VPI97]

and if i ever find out who copied and pasted from our leagues chatroom
ill knock their teeth down their throat
thats the lowest from of scum on this earthThe fact that you feel more animosity towards a whistle blower than the cheater says volumes about your character.

[monte_mcguire]

Recent random excerts from PFL chat room.

Shard77: Hey Justin.

Commish: Ya Shard

Shard77: How are we going to get this shit back in the donkey?

Commish: I don't know, maybe we should just eat it.

Shard77: Tastes like chicken!

[jeff061]

The fact that you feel more animosity towards a whistle blower than the cheater says volumes about your character.

Quoted for truth, and it's seems to be prevalent with the cronies at the top of that league.

[jshipman2]

Oh, where to begin. Let me start off by saying that the PFL is a good league, regardless of what some may think. The main problem here on the boards is the inconsistencies in some of the information that has been feed to everyone on this thread. I got an email from Weinstein (Giants GM) on Sunday night at 7:46PM saying that he noticed some irregularities in the transaction logs but didn't think it was any big deal. I took a look at it but didn't have a chance to dig deep into what was going on. Then Monday evening right before I needed to go to bed so I could be up for work the next morning, I got a PM from Clown2 saying that he thought we had a cheater. It was late and didn't have time to respond. Intended to look into the whole issue once I got off work last night. But...I get home for lunch yesterday afternoon and already there are three pages full of comments about how Raider1 cheated. I HADN'T EVEN GOT TO LOOK INTO THE ISSUE. I logged onto our site and the thread over there discussing the issue had been locked by a moderator that also provides the webspace for our site. He locked it in hopes of giving me time to look over things and respond in an appropriate manner and then unlocking the thread so everyone could continue the discussion.

The only reason that I was originally upset with Shane (Clown2) is that he didn't even give me a chance to respond. I went to bed and all this was out there in the open before I really even had a chance to sort through it all. In no way do I want to lose any members of this, Clown2 included. I just think he should have waited for a response from me and then posted on the FOF forums. As for Raider1, he has accepted the punishment and has said he might still step down. I know you all think we are a joke but we are not, regardless of what this issue says otherwise. In no way did I look the other way on this issue and never have on any other issue that has arose. The locking of posts and deleting of posts is left up to the moderators of our forums. We all understand the importance of recruiting and it is never good to let potential new recruits view in house issues. In no way do I hold anything against anyone that has come out in support or against the whole issue. It is time to let it die and get back to playing the game we all truly love.

Sincerely,
PFL Commish

[JonInMiddleGA]

thats the lowest from of scum on this earth

No, that distinction would go to:
a) pathetic losers who cheat in MP leagues
and
b) the pathetic losers who condone that sort of behavior
and
c) pathetic losers who aren't smart enough to figure out that "friends" like these are pitiful choices for "friends"

I only wish I could lay claim to the privilege of being the one who posted your chat stuff, that's really my only regret. But hey, if it would make you feel any better, I live in the little town of Monticello, GA. About an hour south of Atlanta, it's a small town, most anybody can give you easy directions to my house once you get here. Feel free to drop by & pretend that I'm the one who posted the chat if it will make you feel better.

[sovereignstar]

I don't want to be hostile.
I don't want to be dismal.
But I don't want to rot in an apathetic existance either.
See
I want to believe you,
and I want to trust
and I want to have faith to put away the dagger.

But you lie, cheat, and steal.
And yet
I tolerate you.
Veil of virtue hung to hide your method
while I smile and laugh and dance
and sing your praise and glory.
Shroud of virtue hung to mask your stigma
as I smile and laugh and dance
and sing your glory
while you
lie, cheat, and steal.
How can I tolerate you.

Our guilt,our blame ,
I've been far too sympathetic.
Our blood, our fault.
I've been far too sympathetic.

I am not innocent.
You are not innocent.
Noone is innocent.

I will no longer tolerate you
Even if I must go down beside you.
Because,
Noone is innocent.

[yabanci]

...We all understand the importance of recruiting and it is never good to let potential new recruits view in house issues...

This is where I think most people would disagree with you. People hold a dim view of the league not because raider1 cheated, but because you guys protect the cheater, attack the whistleblower, and then try to cover it all up by deleting the threads and shrouding everything in a veil of secrecy so that unsuspecting fools stumble into the league without knowing what they are getting into.

[JonInMiddleGA]

...you guys protect the cheater, attack the whistleblower, and then try to cover it all up by deleting the threads and shrouding everything in a veil of secrecy so that unsuspecting fools stumble into the league without knowing what they are getting into.

But other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play? ;)

[jshipman2]

I'm done with this thread...everyone here needs to really grow up. It is sad that some of you have nothing better to do than come up with wise cracks to make guys feel worse than what they already do. I'm done with the FOF forums all together.

[sovereignstar]

NDSU ownz the Gorillas!