Backgammon

[QuikSand]

So, I was killing time at a meeting recently, and stumbled across the backgammon game I have on my PDA. Played a few games, and enjoyed it, as usual. Not usually enough to play a lot... but enough to help kill twenty minutes or so.

With the emergence of poker on TV, we'er seeing lots of big time poker players who have a past in high-stakes backgammon. The game (backgammon) has seen intermittent periods of huge popularity... but seems to be down at the moment, on balance.

Most "great" games are great for a reason -- that they have a certain balance in game play and strategy that makes them especially attractive. Perhaps in many people's search for good, interesting, two-player games... you're missing out on a great one right under your nose. You probably even have a set around the house, folded up like a little attache case, and with that weird little die with the funny powers of two on it.

Anyone here a real backgammon enthusiast?

[Raiders Army]

I'm not an enthusiast, but I would add in that not only are "great" games great for what you said, but also because they're easy to pick up, but hard to master (which plays into your strategy criteria).

[QuikSand]

In my experience with backgammon, the real revolutionary addition to the game is, in fact, the doubling cube.

To make it worthwhile, though, you need to be in a setting where winning "one game" is not as big of a deal as winning "two games." Either play for some sort of stakes (money or something else) or you need to be playing over a period of time, where the accumulated number of wins is what you track.

If you're not familiar - here's how the doubling cube works. At the start, the cube is available for either player to use, and reads "1." If you take the lead in the game at some point, and think you are probably going to win, then you can take the cube, and offer to double teh stakes of the game. At that point, your opponent has two choices:

- accept your proposal, and now it's a double-stakes game
- decline your proposal, and you win the game at single stakes

If he accepts, then he takes possession of the cube - you can't just keep doubling time after time. Now, he is the only one who can propose to double again. But if things break his way, and he now has a lead, he can posit the same basic double-the-stakes idea to you -- seeking to elevate the game to being worth 4 wins rather than just 2. If you accept, you then get the cube. And so forth.


Why is this a big deal? because it wipes out the boring parts of backgammon. The game has a natural tendency to turn into a "footrace" at some point, where all you're doing is moving your stones (after there is no longer any overlap between the two players' stones). If you don't use the doubling cube, you spend a fair amount of time just rolling and moving, without much strategy. Often, it's perfectly clear who is going to win... you're just going through the motions.

The doubling cube lets you wipe this out, in many cases. If it's still at 1 and available to both players, then the guy in the lead can offer to double, and essentialy win the game right there. This is how many games end, if the cube is in use -- you no longer have to play out the string when there's a pretty clear winner. Also -- you occasionally do get an interesting back-and-forth game where the stakes continue to elevate. As long as the person who is losing has a 1/3 chance of winning the game (in his estimation), it's in his interest to keep playing. (The proof of this is left as an exercise for the reader) So, it's not ridiculous to see a game get to 8 or 16 on the value scale with some regularity, as long as the players are a little adventurous.

I played with a work colleague nearly every day at lunch, and the winner over the course of each week had to buy lunch for the other on Monday -- that was sufficient stakes to keep us both involved in the value of each game, and to aggressively use the doubling cube to our advantage -- for me, that was the real eye-opener.

The doubling cube turns a decent, interesting game into a potentially great one, in my book.

[Butter]

Is that what the doubling cube is for? I had no idea.

[finketr]

my mom taught me how to play backgammon. She taught all six of us kids how to play...

we've played backgammon to keep the mind occupied while the others are playing some variant of settlers.. 2p+6k=8 .. they'd play a 6 player game of settler (5 if dad went to nap) and the other two would play backgammon, acey ducey, scrabble, boggle (too loud) or whatever.

it's a pretty fun game.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I played on FIBS (First Internet Backgammon Server) about 10 years ago, and I had a lot of fun. I keep meaning to go back there and play again, but I just haven't made the time to do so. I like the game a lot, and I'm sure I'll be playing again sometime soon.

[HerRealName]

I played on FIBS (First Internet Backgammon Server) about 10 years ago, and I had a lot of fun. I keep meaning to go back there and play again, but I just haven't made the time to do so. I like the game a lot, and I'm sure I'll be playing again sometime soon.

FIBS is now 3DFiBs because Backgammon can only be truly appreciated in 3D. I play against the computer opponant a lot but not often over the internet.

[MJ4H]

My wife plays the crap out of backgammon. We learned it at the same time. I hated it, and she loved it. She plays on yahoo all the time (like 3 and 4 games at a time). She also complains about her opponents and the crappy software all the time, but I can't convince her to go to a place like FIBS. She insists on playing at yahoo and griping about it. She is pretty good, though (for a yahoo backgammon player, that is).

[Young Drachma]

I played tons when I was a kid, as my mother really enjoyed it. Actually, both my parents did. I haven't in years and I don't know if the average college kid has any idea how to play. Good question though.

[Dutch]

I never did care for backgammon, but I found one interesting place where backgammon is absolutely adored. Turkey. The Turks LOVE backgammon, it's like their national pastime as far as I can tell (at least as far as board games go).

One day I was at a Turkish comm site with a government civ from the States. This dude brought his own backgammon board along for the trip because he heard the Turks "liked to play" and while I was rebuilding a system inside, this guy lost three times in a row to one of the Turks. Then put his fancy assed board back in the trunk of his rental car where it belonged. I laughed my ass off at that one.

[lynchjm24]

So, I was killing time at a meeting recently, and stumbled across the backgammon game I have on my PDA. Played a few games, and enjoyed it, as usual. Not usually enough to play a lot... but enough to help kill twenty minutes or so.

With the emergence of poker on TV, we'er seeing lots of big time poker players who have a past in high-stakes backgammon. The game (backgammon) has seen intermittent periods of huge popularity... but seems to be down at the moment, on balance.

Most "great" games are great for a reason -- that they have a certain balance in game play and strategy that makes them especially attractive. Perhaps in many people's search for good, interesting, two-player games... you're missing out on a great one right under your nose. You probably even have a set around the house, folded up like a little attache case, and with that weird little die with the funny powers of two on it.

Anyone here a real backgammon enthusiast?


I actually became interested in the internet because of FIBS. My rating was always in the 1480 range... even after about 3000 points of experience.

[Glengoyne]

I used to play in college. There was a guy in a wheel chair that played very seriously. He taught me a lot about the game, and I bought him several lunches, snacks, and cups of coffee. It was a pretty even routine, I'd win at the Poker tables in the CU, we kept track of winnings on paper and settled up at the end, then I'd give most of it back to this guy playing backgammon or some other folks playing russian poker. I never graduated, and looking back like this, it isn't very often I wonder why.

[Glengoyne]

Dola,

I should add that my cousin has won a number of recognized Backgammon and bridge tournaments. In fact he picked up backgammon while playing between games at bridge tournaments. He's in prison now, and I don't think he's playing too much of either. He had been playing spades with a guy in for murder the last I heard from him though.

[Buccaneer]

I recall backgammon was all the rage when I was in college in the 80s (that's 1980s, fool).

[Bad-example]

I should add that my cousin has won a number of recognized Backgammon and bridge tournaments. In fact he picked up backgammon while playing between games at bridge tournaments. He's in prison now...

Damn...they are a lot tougher on cheaters in backgammon than in multiplayer FOF.

[Rizon]

"Hey, I get quite disturbed when you call me that. You shouldn't make fun of foreigners. Besides, I hate French people."

http://maa-love.hp.infoseek.co.jp/j/southpark/pip.jpg

[Schmidty]

My favorite game to pass the time is Mancala.

[Dutch]

I recall backgammon was all the rage when I was in college in the 80s (that's 1980s, fool).

OMG, where doomed, Buccaneer is really Mr. T. :)

[Pumpy Tudors]

My favorite game to pass the time is Mancala.
Ah, if only it had a doubling cube...

[Glengoyne]

Damn...they are a lot tougher on cheaters in backgammon than in multiplayer FOF. Hehe I don't know about Backgammon Cheaters. But if you are an attorney responsible for an escrow type account full of other peoples money, and you dip into said money, they apparently routinely send you away to prison. Even if you are really good at games like Bridge and Backgammon.

[wade moore]

Most "great" games are great for a reason -- that they have a certain balance in game play and strategy that makes them especially attractive. Perhaps in many people's search for good, interesting, two-player games... you're missing out on a great one right under your nose. You probably even have a set around the house, folded up like a little attache case, and with that weird little die with the funny powers of two on it.

Recently my father moved out of the house he had when I was a child and my mother moved out of the house that I grew up in. Somehow in the process, I acquired one of these little attache cases.

I had played Backgammon on it as a kid, but I couldn't tell you when the last time was - to the point that I forgot the rules completely.

So, over the holidays my fiance and I were looking to not watch TV so much and one thing that happened is she decides she wants to try Backgammon out. We pulled out the case and had a really good time playing.

I don't see this ever taking up a huge chunk of my time, but this will become in our rotation of games we pull out when we feel like a two player board game (like Scrabble, Yahtzee, etc).

[Warhammer]

I don't see this ever taking up a huge chunk of my time, but this will become in our rotation of games we pull out when we feel like a two player board game (like Scrabble, Yahtzee, etc).

Good grief, you need better two player games! Pick up Lost Cities or Carcassonne! The only good way to play Yahtzee is the Strip version.

[KWhit]

My wife and I play pretty often. QS, you're right about the stakes and the doubling cube. Those are definitely the key elements to our enjoyment of the game.

I won't tell you what we play for, but I really enjoy it when I win.

:)

[Warhammer]

My wife and I play pretty often. QS, you're right about the stakes and the doubling cube. Those are definitely the key elements to our enjoyment of the game.

I won't tell you what we play for, but I really enjoy it when I win.

:)

I was thinking along the same lines if I could get the wife to play.

[Dutch]

Good grief, you need better two player games! Pick up Lost Cities or Carcassonne! The only good way to play Yahtzee is the Strip version.

Dude, I love Scrabble and Yahtzee!.

(EDIT: No, not strip Yahtzee!.)

[Warhammer]

Once you figure that every time you roll three of a kind they should go up top, Yahtzee loses any strategy it may have had. That and rolling for the large straight is almost as hard as a Yahtzee.

Scrabble ain't bad if your opponent plays quickly.

[st.cronin]

My favorite of the "classic" games is Parcheesi.

[wade moore]

Good grief, you need better two player games! Pick up Lost Cities or Carcassonne! The only good way to play Yahtzee is the Strip version.

Those are both War Games, right? If so, no way she goes for it. She isn't into a complicated game like that.

[Butter]

Once you figure that every time you roll three of a kind they should go up top, Yahtzee loses any strategy it may have had. That and rolling for the large straight is almost as hard as a Yahtzee.

3 choices regarding the large straight:

You have to go for it early any time you get 2-3-4-5. Or stick it out and hope you can get multiple Yahtzees. Or just hope you roll one on your first throw of the turn by accident.

[Warhammer]

Those are both War Games, right? If so, no way she goes for it. She isn't into a complicated game like that.

No, Lost Cities is a set type of game. There are five suits of 13 cards, 3 cards are investment cards, and the other cards are numbered 1-10. You play a card and draw each turn.

The hard part comes in scoring. Scoring is done by looking at each suit you played in, total all the # cards in the suit, subtract 20, and then multiply by 1 + the number of investment cards played. This sounds complicated, but its no more difficult than Yahtzee is.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/50

Carcassonne is a tile laying game. You draw a tile from a bag, and then play the tile adjacent to an existing tile. You can then play a "meeple" on the tile you laid, provided it isn't in the same terrain as another "meeple". When a road or city is completed, the player with the most "meeples" in that area scores.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/822

Both of these are big games with my wife, and all we used to play were Scrabble, Yahtzee, and Mancala.

[Warhammer]

One more thing, both Carcassonne and Lost Cities are "gateway" games, meaning that many people use them to get people into playing bigger and better boardgames.

My wife doesn't play Yahtzee any more by the way, we play Lost Cities, Formula De, or San Juan if she needs a game fix.

[wade moore]

No, Lost Cities is a set type of game. There are five suits of 13 cards, 3 cards are investment cards, and the other cards are numbered 1-10. You play a card and draw each turn.

The hard part comes in scoring. Scoring is done by looking at each suit you played in, total all the # cards in the suit, subtract 20, and then multiply by 1 + the number of investment cards played. This sounds complicated, but its no more difficult than Yahtzee is.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/50

Carcassonne is a tile laying game. You draw a tile from a bag, and then play the tile adjacent to an existing tile. You can then play a "meeple" on the tile you laid, provided it isn't in the same terrain as another "meeple". When a road or city is completed, the player with the most "meeples" in that area scores.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/822

Both of these are big games with my wife, and all we used to play were Scrabble, Yahtzee, and Mancala.

I'll have to check that out. Scrabble, Sequence, and Yahtzee are probably our biggest.

Mancala is another story.. she introduced me to the game probably about 5 years ago. We've probably played.. idano.. a total of say.. 75-100 times.

I have won exactly ZERO times. It's quite embarrassing. But I refuse to go look up strategies or ask others for strategies. One day, I'll win - but we tend not to play it as much because it just gets very frustrating for me.

[Warhammer]

3 choices regarding the large straight:

You have to go for it early any time you get 2-3-4-5. Or stick it out and hope you can get multiple Yahtzees. Or just hope you roll one on your first throw of the turn by accident.

We played a lot of Triple Yahtzee and my strategy was to get them out of the way as early as I could. If I rolled 2, 3, 4, 5 I was going for it, until I ran out of small straights, then I would switch to something else.

Boy my wife used to get pissed at me, I'd win roughly 3/4s of the time.

[jbmagic]

Uno is fun.

[firebirds]

Most definately a backgammon enthusiast here. Used to play many hours a week years ago. Once my eldest daughter was diggin' thru the game closet and pulled out the board asking what it was. Wound up getting a new playing partner . . . for a while that is. She discovered the PC, GameBoy, obtained parent controlled internet access and finally XBox. Alas, once again the board sits in the closet catching dust.

Simple game objective, easy to learn and simple rules but a life time to master.

edited for typo

[albionmoonlight]

Bought my four year old a checkers set (somehow we did not have one) last week. It was one of those "combo" sets that included a backgammon board on the reverse side. He asked me how to play it. I didn't know, but took the opportunity to learn. (Side note, one great thing about kids is how they provide the opportunity to branch out into things you had not done before).

Now I have an app on my phone, and I find it to be just a buttload of fun. I can also see how one could easily take this game to the next level and become a real badass at it.

[Young Drachma]

I need to download an app now that you reminded me. My mom taught me to play as a kid, but I can count the number of times I've played as an adult.

[tarcone]

Love backgammon. Taught my 12 year old how to play a couple years ago. My wife wont play. So I needed someone to play.
We havent played in awhile. Busy lives as you might guess.

[tarcone]

Oh, and cribbage is up next. I really like playing cribbage.