Alright boyz, here we go!! Civilization IV first impressions...

[Buccaneer]

(am I allowed to start this?)

Anxious to hear actual gameplay experiences.

[Draft Dodger]

and I'm anxious to hear more AI jokes

[NoMyths]

I think you have to give an actual first impression to start the thread, but that's probably just me.

I'm just as anxious to hear the early word on the game.

[Buccaneer]

That's probably true but I think I'd rather hear from other first.

Plus it'll give me a chance to ask questions.

[cody8200]

Played it for 3 hours. I like the changes. Love how religion works. I started Christianity! :) Definetely doesnt play the same as the older versions. Doesn't seem like as much about land grabbing/quick city building. Diplomacy seems better. I havent gotten into any wars yet...Im a peaceful guy. Anyway, I'm loving it. BTW, the graphics are pretty. Not age of empire 3 pretty but by far the best looking civ 3 yet. I like the interface changes. Hardly have to go to the city view at all. Nice.

[Buccaneer]

cody, what about the pace or advancement through the tech tree?

[cody8200]

The tech tree is quite a bit different. Quite a few added techs and until you advance you cant do much with workers. IE-you cant build roads until you have a certain tech, you cant build farms, stables, pasures, etc. I like the ability to go through the tech tree in a non-specific order since there are no tech "ages" like Civ 3. In the beginning the pace was slow (as it has been in all Civ games). I'm at 1 ad now and it took me about 3 hours to get there. I probably could have went faster but I wasnt in a hurry. To me, it seemed like the BC period lasted longer than in previous civs.

[Buccaneer]

The tech tree is quite a bit different. Quite a few added techs and until you advance you cant do much with workers. IE-you cant build roads until you have a certain tech, you cant build farms, stables, pasures, etc. I like the ability to go through the tech tree in a non-specific order since there are no tech "ages" like Civ 3. In the beginning the pace was slow (as it has been in all Civ games). I'm at 1 ad now and it took me about 3 hours to get there. I probably could have went faster but I wasnt in a hurry. To me, it seemed like the BC period lasted longer than in previous civs.
Could you have gotten to 1 AD quicker through streamlining and concentrating more on research (at the expense of other elements)? I am asking not that I would want a faster pace (god forbid) but rather in how much control do you have on advancing, if that makes sense.

[Bee]

Have they added a hip hop soundtrack yet?

[Airhog]

So far I have only played the Tutorial. I never played Civ3 so I cannot compare it to that, only Civ2. I like the changes so far. It does seem like a worthy sequal to Civ2 so far.

The biggest changes I am liking so far, are the Hamlets. These give your cities gold. They grow after so many turns and produce more gold. I really like these kinds of improvements, so I dont feel like I have to keep micromanaging my workers. I am not sure if this was in Civ3, but workers/settlers are different now. Settlers only have 1 goal. I didn't notice if you lose a level on your city when you build one, but it did say that your city doesnt grow any while they are being built.

I will probably try to start a game tomorrow after work, or later tonight if I can. I will try to provide a better idea once I have played through a full game, and decide if they got it right. :D

[Airhog]

The music is nice. I liked the intro music, and it seems to be period specific. I saw some of the install files for the renissance, and it was mozart, and bach. Good music for civ playing I think...

[Raiders Army]

I'm more of a G'n'R or Megadeth fan for playing Civ.

[Buccaneer]

That's funny, I have always put on my Mozart CD when playing Civ2.

[cody8200]

Could you have gotten to 1 AD quicker through streamlining and concentrating more on research (at the expense of other elements)? I am asking not that I would want a faster pace (god forbid) but rather in how much control do you have on advancing, if that makes sense.

I could have gotten to better technology by 1 ad if thats what your asking. I also really like that you cannot change production midstream but it does allow you to come back and finish producing that unit. This helps make your decisions on what unit to make much more important.

Also the contract has quite a bit of an african theme to it (not african american) :)

[jbmagic]

how big is the manual?

[Flasch186]

Manuel is about 5'9" and thats average for his homeland.

[Coop]

Did anybody get a French tech tree?

[hukarez]

Did anybody get a French tech tree?
Funny you mention this, I was browsing the official website when I came across this:

http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/techtree_support.htm

Received a French Tech Tree Poster?
October 26, 2005

2K Games has determined that a small amount of U.S. units of Civilization IV incorrectly included the French language Tech Tree poster due to an error at an assembly plant. Do not return the game to the store. Please provide your shipping information below and we will replace this item with the English Tech poster at no charge to you. A PDF file of the English version is available for immediate download through the link below. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you.

...so you can consider yourself one of the lucky few! http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[henry296]

Did anybody get a French tech tree?

It is a known problem. Follow this link to get an English tech tree sent to you or download a PDF version.

http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/techtree_support.htm

[Airhog]

Okay, I couldnt resist and started a new game

I set it on the second difficulty level. The only other setting I changed was no barbarians. Map size was one down from standard. I believe the map type was balanced.

First impressions of the map size, was it was a bit small. we have 5 different AI playing on the map, and we have filled out the map pretty much. However, this doesnt seem like a bad thing. I have 5 cities, and that feels like just the right number for this map size, plus there is no more land for new ones near me.

Game progressed fast for me, as I am already upto about 850AD. I set the settlers to auto cultivate my land. This has worked mostly well. There is one problem though, the game undervalues gold I think. I had to lower my reasearch to 90% because my upkeep was more than what I was bringing into the treasury. You still need to build road to special resources, and my map looks mostly like a civ2 map at this point. However, there is no irrigation for me yet, or none that I can detect anyways. I think less is more in this respect though.

I havent tried combat yet. I usually play my first game peacefully to get a grasp on the tech tree and everything else. So far, I love the tech tree. It seems very varied in what you can build. So far, it doesnt seem like it bottlenecks like it did in Civ2. I always felt that it was a race to monarchy, then gunpowder, then industrial revolution. Doesn't feel like that so much here.

I haven't quite figured out religion though. I started out as Confuscism, but discovered Christianty and switched. It was ironic though, because I discovered it on 1 AD :D After I switched my states religion to Christianity, I could still build Confuscism temples. I think there is a distinction between discovering the religion, and your states religion. I'm not sure yet if there is any disadvantage to not discovering multiple religions.

Everyone is talking about the AI, and so far I cannot complain. However, I think its to early to judge the AI. Only after playing for many hours can you decide if the AI is weak. So far though, they have not ganged up on me, and I have some good, and some bad relations with others. No war yet, though I think the Inca's are leaning that way.

I talked about the Pace earlier. I think its fine right now. I am still witholding opinions about it though until I complete a whole game. But since the Worker AI seems pretty solid and I think it works pretty well to automate that, it may speed up gameplay quite a bit.

And finally, I have to share the only bug I have encounted. The sound skips for me whenever I complete a wonder, and it shows the wonder video.

[timmynausea]

Thanks for the link about the French tech tree. I got one.

[Ksyrup]

Automating workers sounds like a fantastic change. Civ III got so tedius trying to keep up wih dozens of workers and what they were doing. It was like setting study time for TCY players.

[Buccaneer]

Thanks Airhog!

[Airhog]

Automating workers sounds like a fantastic change. Civ III got so tedius trying to keep up wih dozens of workers and what they were doing. It was like setting study time for TCY players.

Since I never played Civ3 Im not sure how bad it was, but I know that was the worst part for me in Civ2. Also, I believe that you can set a city to empasise a resource. Im not sure if this carries over to the settlers working on that city though, but it would be sweet if they did.


And yes, it does have the just one more turn feel :D :D :D

[cody8200]

Actually you could automate the workers in civ 3. I got the French tech tree too.

[Ksyrup]

Actually you could automate the workers in civ 3.
True. I guess it's not so much a change as something I might need to take more advantage of if it is implemented better. I really didn't like the feature in Civ III, since I ended up having to chase down automated workers to place them in better positions. And, I rarely if ever used it early on in the game, because the AI always had something different in mind than I did for the workers.

[Coop]

It is a known problem. Follow this link to get an English tech tree sent to you or download a PDF version.

http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/techtree_support.htm
Im getting my game tomorrow, i was just curious if anybody got it.

but thx anyway ;)

[jbmagic]

More great impressions


Even single-player and multiplayer options have been improved in Civ IV. The single-player game offers much-improved artificial intelligence that seems to cheat much less than in previous games, or not at all. In the single-player game, rival nations won't mysteriously explore the entire world in two turns, nor will they use those two turns to magically build a network of five cities where there were none before. Computer-controlled nations will also make much more reasonable bids at the table, but they can't be easily bribed with small handfuls of cash, either. The single-player difficulty seems to scale extremely well by offering a very gentle introduction for beginners at the lowest levels and a suitably tough challenge for experts at the highest levels.

[Buccaneer]

Here's another gameplay review

I just finished my first game. I only played on Cheiftain, so I could get a feel for it. I won with a space victory in 2020 - I did not have any goal other than to test the game, so I am sure that I could have won earlier.

Only one war, I was England and I fought Spain and Japan. All the right units won...my War elephants lost to machine guns, my infantry beat archers, etc.

It was a pretty easy level, I was far ahead in technology, but I had very little military. So when I went to war, I was unprepared. I was left to pillaging, so my antique military could at least accomplish something. I built some fighters and bombed cities but I had no real ground troops.

Overall, it feels like a very good game.

[Godzilla Blitz]

I started up my first game with nearly the same settings as Airhog. The only difference I can see is that I started at the 3rd (warlord) difficulty setting (out of nine total).

Up to about 600AD in an hour and a half. Right now, gameplay seems brisk. One reason that the pace may be fast is that there seems to be a lot less micromanaging in this version of the game. It seems like a lot of things can be automated. For example, (I don't know if this was in CivIII but I don't remember it) in Civ IV you can order a worker to make a road from point A to point B, which sure is a time-saver.

The AI seems decent at this level, but it's hard to tell as I've only bumped up against the Russians and the Germans, and we have yet to fight. I do seem to have a lead over both civilizations in the research race and in development, but at the Warlord level of difficulty humans have an easier time than the AI with such things.

So far I'm liking the game, but it's much much too early for me to draw any conclusions.

Plusses: less micromanaging, unit experience and promotions, religion (started to figure this one out), and nifty interface.

Minuses: very minor interfaces issues, but nothing worth mentioning.

[SunDevil]

Here is a beta tester who created a walkthrough for everyone who is on the fence buying the game, or something to tie over the people who are waiting for it.

http://www.kalikokottage.com/civ3/sullla/civ4intro.html

[Buccaneer]

Besides technical issues, no one reporting any troublesome gameplay bugs? Anyone have a pulse on the custom maps and scenarios included?

[Bee]

Bucc,

You should check out the thread on the QT3 forum about the game. Towards the end of the thread, a couple people have posted some details about the gameplay that you might find interesting.

B

[Ksyrup]

Up to about 600AD in an hour and a half. Right now, gameplay seems brisk. One reason that the pace may be fast is that there seems to be a lot less micromanaging in this version of the game. It seems like a lot of things can be automated. For example, (I don't know if this was in CivIII but I don't remember it) in Civ IV you can order a worker to make a road from point A to point B, which sure is a time-saver.
This is what I was getting at earlier. I know we could automate workers in Civ III, but only to do specific tasks, and usually I had to either change them to something else when I felt they were not productive anymore, or had to move them where I thought they were needed the most. I don't recall being able to automate workers to build roads from A to B. That kind of thing is going to be a welcomed addition to the game. Building roads early on took a lot of micromanaging.

[Capital]

Does this game have a single player campaign?

[Eilim]

3 games played so far, and 3 ass kickings handed to me. (granted, one was an comical attempt at a single city civ.) Been playing at the middle level, noble I think it is. The one with no boosts for myself or the AI and might have to kick it down a notch or two until I get a better grasp of the route I wish to take tech wise, as going un-focused seems only to lead to mega ass-whipping.

I have to say I'm really loving this game, as witnessed by the lack of sleep since first installing it last night. :)

Oh, and one thing I've noticed, you really have to pay attention to your diplomacy and pick your friends well. I've had little to no luck at my attempts at keeping everyone happy and almost always end up getting dragged into wars over being nice to the wrong person at the wrong time.

[bob]

Any guesses as to if this game would work with my NVIDIA GeForce 4 MX 420?

[Flasch186]

it works on my nvidia pushed laptop!!! WOOHOO!!!

[bob]

it works on my nvidia pushed laptop!!! WOOHOO!!!

How old is your card? Mine is about 3 years old now...

[Flasch186]

geforce Fx GO5200 (Omega 1.6693) P

whatever that means

[Coop]

geforce Fx GO5200 (Omega 1.6693) P

whatever that means
Is yours a dell?

[sachmo71]

This is what I was getting at earlier. I know we could automate workers in Civ III, but only to do specific tasks, and usually I had to either change them to something else when I felt they were not productive anymore, or had to move them where I thought they were needed the most. I don't recall being able to automate workers to build roads from A to B. That kind of thing is going to be a welcomed addition to the game. Building roads early on took a lot of micromanaging.


You could build from city to city in Civ III. In fact, I *think* you could build from point to point.
Also, workers would become active when they ran out of work to do.

[Ksyrup]

You could build from city to city in Civ III. In fact, I *think* you could build from point to point.
Also, workers would become active when they ran out of work to do.
Really? I suck. Then again, I haven't played Civ III in quite awhile. All I remember is the game getting very tedious as it approached the end. Basically, the end game for me consisted of repeated failed attacks with a navy that should have been able to take on the galaxy and running around activating workers to clean pollution. Oh yeah, and winning (if I ever got that far).

[Eaglesfan27]

FYI:

Gamespot gave it a 9.4 with a very nice write-up. I'm going to leave for work early and try stopping at a store or two in the Baton Rouge area to see if any of them have the game in.

[sachmo71]

Really? I suck. Then again, I haven't played Civ III in quite awhile. All I remember is the game getting very tedious as it approached the end. Basically, the end game for me consisted of repeated failed attacks with a navy that should have been able to take on the galaxy and running around activating workers to clean pollution. Oh yeah, and winning (if I ever got that far).


that latest patches fixed a lot of this. The endgame was still predictable, but at least the micromanagement was cut down some.

[Flasch186]

Is yours a dell?

HP ZD7140us.....consistent problem with the AC jack though.

[Ben E Lou]

This is what I was getting at earlier. I know we could automate workers in Civ III, but only to do specific tasks, and usually I had to either change them to something else when I felt they were not productive anymore, or had to move them where I thought they were needed the most. I don't recall being able to automate workers to build roads from A to B. That kind of thing is going to be a welcomed addition to the game. Building roads early on took a lot of micromanaging.Actually you could do all of those things in Civ3. Shift-Ctrl-R built a railroad from point a to point b. Ctrl-R built a road from point a to point b, for example, and you could choose several automate worker options, such as "Automate--clear forests", "Automate-clear pollution", "Automate--build trade network" (connected all of your cities), or just automate in general. I played Civ3 later in the cycle than most, so maybe all of that wasn't included in earlier versions, but it worked very, very well in Civ 3 Complete, that's for sure.

[Daimyo]

The difference between Civ3 with the expansion and all patches was such a totally different experience than Civ3 out of the box.

Civ3 out of the box << Civ2 < Civ3 fully patches w/ expansion

Hopefully Civ4 is better out of the box than Civ3... So many people missed out on how good Civ3 became because of the early problems. I should get my copy today.

[Greyroofoo]

Goodbye Real World

I shall miss thee

[Buccaneer]

FYI:

Gamespot gave it a 9.4 with a very nice write-up. I'm going to leave for work early and try stopping at a store or two in the Baton Rouge area to see if any of them have the game in.
I also checked on the way home and EB Games had it in a box behind the counter which they had just opened to pull the pre-orders.

[Flasch186]

is it just me or does the game seem kinda "kidlike"?

[Buccaneer]

is it just me or does the game seem kinda "kidlike"?
That sounds very similar to the comments made about Pirates. Civ always have been a simple game in its design but very deep in its play. Anyone get the first impression that this still holds true or too soon to tell yet?

[jbmagic]

Below is Soren's answer when asked about Macro and Micro Management in Civ4:


Removing unnecessary micromanagement from the game was a high-level design goal for Civ IV, one which paid off huge dividends in the final product. We systematically looked at every piece of micromanagement from which Civ 1-3 suffered and figured out ways to remove it without altering the underlying game dynamic. Pollution was removed in favor of a high-level health system. Beaker and hammer overflow was introduced to end the incentive for min-maxing your citizens each and every turn. City riots were simply turned into angry citizens to take away the need to continually check on your cities' happiness in case something went wrong. Workers now have two moves so that a move and an order can be given on the same turn -reducing the number of times the player deals with an active worker by half. Also, some high-level controls to allow micromanagement were added. For example, workers can be grouped together and given an infinite number of sequential orders. Multiple cities can be selected at a time, allowing the player to change all cities on one continent to build tanks with just two clicks.

more questions and answers can be found here
http://games.slashdot.org/games/05/10/27/059220.shtml?tid=206&tid=11


1. The Civ4 AI - by Skyshadow
My only question for Civ4 concerns the AI: Have you made it a crafty enough opponent yet that it can compete at the higher skill levels of the game without resorting to the "cheating" that we've seen in previous incarnations of the game? If so, how?

Soren Johnson:
A great deal of effort has been put into making the Civ IV AI the best yet. For the first time ever, we have received direct input from the world's best Civ players during the game's development, via a very selective, closed beta that began very early. This feedback allowed us to iterate on the AI's design much more quickly and effectively than ever before.

Much of the information cheating has been removed from the game (such as knowing where a resource is before it is discovered, sending off galleys with settlers to undiscovered lands, targeting cities with fewer defenders, etc.) Further, the heuristics it uses to make decisions, such as for diplomatic demands and declarations of war, are the same ones available to the player (such as from the power chart on the Demographics screen). However, as with all versions of Civ, the AI has production and research penalties at the lower levels and bonuses at the higher levels. The level of the bonuses are lower than they have ever been before; in fact, the AI never receives any bonuses whatsoever for building wonders - a far cry from the "free AI wonders" in Civ 1. Noble and Prince are the difficulty levels where the AI's rules are closest to the human's.

[Buccaneer]

From a longtime civer, Jaybe

My micro-review of Civ4 after just playing the tutorial and fooling around. I am stunned, in a state of shock! I never imagined such a beautiful game. Preview vids never came CLOSE to giving it justice.

And in the thread talking about whether there will be the backlash against Civ4 like there was against Civ3 (I know, I was there). Here's a simple reply

I don't think the problem was that Civ3 was different from Civ2, it was that it was, in many ways, a step backward from Civ2 (and especially SMAC).

In particular, less personality, less fun, less "one-more-turn."

Early indicators seem to suggest that Civ4 is a step in the right direction in regards to fun, as opposed to Civ3.
Here's the quip from yin that Imran probably referred to

For me, developer effort goes a long way. It's obvious to me that Firaxis took the sting from Civ 3 and decided to prove they are a force to contend with in strategy gaming. Now, for my money, they still tend to focus a bit too much on the warm fuzzy gaming experience, but as my poll even at Poly shows: A huge number of gamers don't really want killer AI. They want moderate challenges and lots of atmosphere. Civ 4 seems ready to deliver this.

Now, if the mod community can get us that killer challenges to go with the atmosphere, even more of us will be thrilled. So, my money says this thing can't really lose.
Finally, from one of my favorite 'polytoner, Grumbold (who supported me when I dared criticize EU)

I haven't been involved in following Civ 4 anything like as much as I was with Civ 3, but I have noticed the same trend in the massively multiplayer game forums that I've been spending my time in: Anticipation vs realisation.

Civ 3 was promising to do everything better than its predecessors. Then multiplay got cut. The "best scr1pting evar!" boast became a lame editor that couldn't do some tasks Civ 2 could, let alone rival SMAC or CTP. The AI nations howled like a baby the second one of your units inadvertently strayed over the border (or the border expanded without alerting you) yet thought it was fine to send settlers and guards plodding all over your lands any time it wanted etc. The AI was about as sharp as promised about expansion but couldn't negotiate a trade properly until it was savagely overhauled. It just could not, in the cold light of day, live up to the expectations that had been created back in the early days of its production. That disappointment led to some pretty petty complaints as well as the justifiable ones.

Personally I don't have that sort of weight of preconceptions about Civ 4, so I expect to enjoy it more. About the biggest thing I hope has changed from 3 to 4 is the resource scarcity issue. Personally I hate researching say, railroad, and being incapable of building a single strip of track because all the coal is on the other side of the planet, but the dumb natives don't know it so you can't trade them for it. Now that I've learned how to stop the AI colonising through my country and turn off the RNG lock, that is about the only thing I still seriously dislike about Civ 3.

[Buccaneer]

Finally opened the box and I absolutely love the Tech Tree and Specifications Charts poster. And the manual is 200+ pages!

[TroyF]

I just played a quick half game. Man, on the XPS, I can run it at 1920x1600 and boy does it look pretty.

I'm not going to comment on the AI (partially because I suck as a player and it wouldn't be fair to it) But I can tell I'm gonna enjoy this one a lot.

[Eaglesfan27]

I just played a quick half game. Man, on the XPS, I can run it at 1920x1600 and boy does it look pretty.

I'm not going to comment on the AI (partially because I suck as a player and it wouldn't be fair to it) But I can tell I'm gonna enjoy this one a lot.
I also have an XPS (that is maxed out) and I can't wait to see how good this game looks on it. I just need to find it in a store now. So far, 6 stores I've tried have been sold out. I have to make a trip up to Shreveport tomorrow, and am hoping to have better luck there.

[TroyF]

I also have an XPS (that is maxed out) and I can't wait to see how good this game looks on it. I just need to find it in a store now. So far, 6 stores I've tried have been sold out. I have to make a trip up to Shreveport tomorrow, and am hoping to have better luck there.

You have a gen2 Eagles? Great machine, best gaming machine I've ever had, laptop or otherwise.

I was on a business trip this week, in Boise, ID. And shock of all shocks, the Best Buy there had about twenty copies on the shelf. If I'd have known, I'd have bought two and sent ya one. :)

You'll love the way it looks on maxed resolution. Just unbelievable.

[Eaglesfan27]

You have a gen2 Eagles? Great machine, best gaming machine I've ever had, laptop or otherwise.

I was on a business trip this week, in Boise, ID. And shock of all shocks, the Best Buy there had about twenty copies on the shelf. If I'd have known, I'd have bought two and sent ya one. :)

You'll love the way it looks on maxed resolution. Just unbelievable.Yeah, I have a gen2 with all maxed out options. It is an amazing gaming machine. It is the only computer that I've ever had that I truly believe won't be obsolete in 2-3 (probably not even 4-5) years. I wish I had mentioned my trouble finding the game sooner ;). I've looked in 2 Best Buy's, 1 CompUSA, 1 Walmart, and 2 Gamestop's. So far no luck. However, I'll check out the gamestop and BestBuy (at least) in Shreveport tomorrow.

Edit: Actually, had a brain freeze, it is not a Gen2. It is an XPS desktop :)

[jbmagic]

Finally opened the box and I absolutely love the Tech Tree and Specifications Charts poster. And the manual is 200+ pages!


did you get the special edition one?

[Buccaneer]

did you get the special edition one?
No.

I started in on the tutorial and having only played a little bit of Civ3, I am astounded as to how different this game is. There are still quite a few familiar elements but the interface (I miss the pull down menus), graphics and information presented is quite a shock to an old civer. It's going to take some time to get used to where everything is and how I can find the information I need. Despite how great everything looks, I think there is a bit too much graphical stuff going on that distracts from clearly and quickly seeing things.

[Eilim]

I have to say this game is going to steal the life right out of me. Been playing it pretty much non-stop since picking it up yesterday with a few short naps here and there. (Gotta love having a week off before starting a new job just as a great game comes out. :) )

Perhaps its from taking such a long break from the civ series that I'm not getting the same graphical information overload Bucc is, but rather the opposite. I'm in love with the fact that all the info I need for decision is always right there in front of me without seeming too cluttered . And if the info isn't there, its just a single click or hotkey away.

Playing on Noble I haven't noticed any glaring weaknesses some others are mentioning, well other than *MY* glaring weaknesses. :) But that could just be because of my skill level (or lack there of), I just refuse to go down a level and learn bad habits that I'll just have to break once I want to come back up and try the harder game.

I've yet to see any rediculous tech trading issues, if anything the bastards are always pissing me off on how they won't give the "good/critical" techs away at any cost even when rated "friendly" to you no matter how many tech and gold you throw their way. And don't get me started at them being so "Nice" to offer you a tech your only 1 turn away from in exchange for critical techs and the majority of your gold reserves then getting all uppity if ya don't. (That @^%$# Saladin got me on a "one turn away anyways" trade when I wasn't paying attention once... Then delcared war on me shortly after using the tech he got from me to beat me. :( )

Anyways, as civ2 fan turned "noob" the game has dragged me in hook, line, and sinker. The immersion wasn't there the first few games simply because I was worrying so much about wrapping my head around all the possibilites/choices available. Now that I've started having more focused goals/plans going in, rather than just reacting to everything the game does the personalties of the game *really* stick out and make me feel like the evil little dictator in the making that I want to be.

Oh yeah, and Saladin is pure evil and needs to be destroyed quickly in any and all Civ IV games played, you have been warned. ;)

[Airhog]

Okay here is my final thoughts on the game

The end game pace doesnt slow down much. Actually you end up doing less, or at least in my game, since you have built most everything. I played the whole game with my settlers turned on, and didnt really mess with the emphasis buttons. All of my cities did fine, and were pretty evenly balanced. Now I know this next issue was a problem in civ3, and that was a lack of critical end game resources. I only missed one resource, and that was oil. luckily, only aircraft and tanks use oil. The AI will not trade it either, or in my game that had'nt built any wells yet.

I eventually won my game, by having the highest score. I tried to go for a UN victory, but I never could get there. I am not sure what it would take to win, and I was giving away all my tech, and gold to try and get some support, but it always fell short. I guess it should be difficult though.

The INCA's attacked me a few times. All of the wars ended in stalemate. It seemed very difficult to attack a city. It seems like you would need 3 times as many troops to take a well defended one.

I finally figured out religion. It is one of the driving forces of income until you reach the modern age. I didn't really like how you could found multiple religions, and it was very beneficial to have all of the religions in your cities in the later stages. The design of it though doesnt allow for anything else, and its a minor complaint.

I do like the civics more than the old style of government, allows for a more varied gameplay during the early parts of the game, but in the end, the best civics are the ones you get last.

Culture is a good idea, and I actually captured 2 cities through culture. You can peacefully expand your empire this way, but it is'nt really worth the extreme effort needed to do so. Although expanding you borders does have one positive effect, in that it cuts down on the resources of any border cities the other civ has.

There are some other small nuances that I didnt care for much, its not very obvious on how you adjust your build queue. Hopefully I will get oil the next time around, and see what I can do with that. My game only had 1 continent, and only 2 cities built on the ocean, so there was not any sea traffic.

Civ's are definately smaller. I can remember having 30 cities in Civ2. Now it seems like 5 or 6 was the magic number. There just wasn't any room on the map for them, especially when you can only start a city in your own border or unclaimed land.


I plan to start up a new game, and be a warmonger, probably play on islands. I cannot wait until we get a MP game going on here, although I would probably get my but kicked, since I am usually a pacifist. I also am looking foward to playing a few of the scenarioes. I think a classical aged one would be great.

[Eilim]

One thing I've been doing to slow the pace a bit, although some might not like it is playing the "Epic" time scale with the timed win toggled off. I even toggle off the space race win, but with the epic scale build times you probably wouldn't even have to turn that off.

While still having all the good feel of CIV 4, it doesn't feel as if the game is rushing by as fast with the standard settings and captures some of the feel I had in some of my old insanely long civ2 games.

[MikeVic]

Question about the tutorial... do you have to do it in one sitting? I started one, and Sid told me to find another civ. I saved there because I had to go out. When I came back and loaded my game, it seemed like a normal game... I found India, and Sid didn't comment or anything. :(

[vex]

The standard pace is MUCH too fast imo. I'll be playing on epic next time, hopefully with better results. The 3D just seems odd in a Civ game as well.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Question about the tutorial... do you have to do it in one sitting? I started one, and Sid told me to find another civ. I saved there because I had to go out. When I came back and loaded my game, it seemed like a normal game... I found India, and Sid didn't comment or anything. :(
It messes up if you quit the game partway through, but it doesn't go much past the point where you run into India anyway. You didn't miss much after that. Almost seems as if they quit making the tutorial halfway through.

[cody8200]

Same game as before. Now 9 hours in. Its 1750 ad. I am playing on the "huge" earth map. I have 17 cities. Still lots of room for expansion. However, technologically I have developed radio already. I havent stopped playing for the last 4 hours. I love the game.

[SackAttack]

Oops.

Note to self: even if the other Civs don't want to make war with you, it's still a bad idea to concentrate so heavily on religion and technology that you forget to create units to defend Rome from barbarians.

[vex]

Oops.

Note to self: even if the other Civs don't want to make war with you, it's still a bad idea to concentrate so heavily on religion and technology that you forget to create units to defend Rome from barbarians.
True dat. Did the same thing.

[Ben E Lou]

True dat. Did the same thing.Ditto.

[Buccaneer]

The manual mentioned an article on a site www.civIV.com (http://www.civIV.com) that is called "Comparisons with Previous Civilization Games". I can't find the site or such an article. Does Poly have it or something like that compares similarities/differences for Civ2 players? I want to read something besides the manual at work today.

[Buccaneer]

It messes up if you quit the game partway through, but it doesn't go much past the point where you run into India anyway. You didn't miss much after that. Almost seems as if they quit making the tutorial halfway through.
Awww, that's unfortunate. That's what I get for doing things very slow and meticulous. Guess it won't take much time to do over the first part - I left off starting on techs.

[ISiddiqui]

They want moderate challenges and lots of atmosphere.
That'd be me :D.


The manual mentioned an article on a site www.civIV.com (http://www.civiv.com/) that is called "Comparisons with Previous Civilization Games". I can't find the site or such an article. Does Poly have it or something like that compares similarities/differences for Civ2 players? I want to read something besides the manual at work today.
I assume they meant:

http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/compare.htm
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[Coffee Warlord]

The Islamic Republic of Rome Flourishes.

[sachmo71]

The Islamic Republic of Rome Flourishes.


So is there any rhyme or reason to the religion thing? Can you choose which one you want to adopt? Is there any historical signifigance to the choices offered?

[Coffee Warlord]

So is there any rhyme or reason to the religion thing? Can you choose which one you want to adopt? Is there any historical signifigance to the choices offered?

It's very very VERY bland (for obvious reasons). Basically, there are a few techs in the game that, if you are the first to discover it, automatically found the appropriate religion.

Once the religion has been founded, anyone can declare it as their 'state' religion, or it can spread on it's own throughout the world (both transparent and via missionary type folks). If you have a state religion, you have generic bonuses to happiness, and some of the civic options grant bonuses such as...construction time cut by 25% in all towns that match your state religion.

[moriarty]

It's very very VERY bland (for obvious reasons). Basically, there are a few techs in the game that, if you are the first to discover it, automatically found the appropriate religion.

Once the religion has been founded, anyone can declare it as their 'state' religion, or it can spread on it's own throughout the world (both transparent and via missionary type folks).

Based on the guy's walkthrough, it sounds like if you found the religion you can earn some money from other follower nations, also you have increased relations with those nations under the same religion (but possibly hostile relations w/ opposing religions).

edit: so it sounds like there's incentive to spread the word via missionaries and such.

[sachmo71]

It's very very VERY bland (for obvious reasons). Basically, there are a few techs in the game that, if you are the first to discover it, automatically found the appropriate religion.

Once the religion has been founded, anyone can declare it as their 'state' religion, or it can spread on it's own throughout the world (both transparent and via missionary type folks). If you have a state religion, you have generic bonuses to happiness, and some of the civic options grant bonuses such as...construction time cut by 25% in all towns that match your state religion.


Is there a penalty if you change? Is there an incentive to change?

[Coffee Warlord]

Is there a penalty if you change? Is there an incentive to change?

Turn of anarchy, and the only incentive I can think of to changing is based on whether or not you want other nations to follow your religion.

[moriarty]

Is there a penalty if you change? Is there an incentive to change?

Doesn't answer your question, but this may give you some more info (copied from some dude's summary of the manual):

Religion:
Two early religions:
Meditation – Buddhism
Polytheism – Hinduism
Others:
Christianity – Theology
Confucianism – Code of Laws
Hinduism – Polytheism
Islam – Divine Right
Judaism – Monotheism
Taoism - Philosophy

Founding a religion gives you ability to make a shrine. Important: You can see what’s going on in all enemy cities that use the religion(s) that you found.

Organized Religion Civic allows build of missionaries in all cities. Else you need to build a monastery to build a missionary. Missionaries can’t cross without open borders. Missionaries have a percentage of success of converting a city, the chances are greater for your own cities. Each religion present decreases the changes for conversion success. The missionary is NOT used up by this attempt.

[vex]

Organized Religion Civic allows build of missionaries in all cities. Else you need to build a monastery to build a missionary. Missionaries can’t cross without open borders. Missionaries have a percentage of success of converting a city, the chances are greater for your own cities. Each religion present decreases the changes for conversion success. The missionary is NOT used up by this attempt.
I'm confused by what this is saying, because I know it used up my missionary when I tried to spread the word. Unless this is talking about something else?

[moriarty]

I'm confused by what this is saying, because I know it used up my missionary when I tried to spread the word. Unless this is talking about something else?

Did you have the organized religion civic on or a different one? Supposedly this is clift (sp?) notes version of the instruction manual ... so you can always check there.

[vex]

It says, "The missionary is consumed in the conversion attempt, successful or not".

Can we invite this guy to our multiplayer game? :D

[moriarty]

It says, "The missionary is consumed in the conversion attempt, successful or not".

Can we invite this guy to our multiplayer game? :D

No - any geek who copies highlights out of the manual scares me.

edit: fine gentlemen who copy and post copies of highlights out of the manual are cool though.

[Warhammer]

Manuel is about 5'9" and thats average for his homeland.

He's from Barcelona.

I really hope someone gets this, or I will feel OLD!

[vex]

No - any geek who copies highlights out of the manual scares me.

edit: fine gentlemen who copy and post copies of highlights out of the manual are cool though.
haha, I bet:p

[moriarty]

He's from Barcelona.

I really hope someone gets this, or I will feel OLD!


Ehh, I don't get it ... but i does remind me of the line from Top Secret

"I know a little German .... He's right over there (points to midget)."

[Warhammer]

Eh... It was from FAWLTY TOWERS... Damn I am getting old. At least I'm not as old as Bucc though! :D

[Ben E Lou]

Turn of anarchy, and the only incentive I can think of to changing is based on whether or not you want other nations to follow your religion.I can think of another potential one: if there's a particular nation that you want to suck up to. There's a significant hit to diplomacy if you're the "wrong" religion. "We are upset that you have fallen under the sway of a heathen religion" is outweighing both the Open Borders treaty and long years of peace that I have with Egypt combined. From what I've seen so far, it appears that it would be *much* easier to ally with Egypt if my nation had the same religion as theirs.

[WSUCougar]

Eh... It was from FAWLTY TOWERS... Damn I am getting old. At least I'm not as old as Bucc though! :D
I got it. Yes, you are. And ditto.

[Coffee Warlord]

Yeah, that's what I was basically implying in far too little of detail. People keep bothering me at work, leaving me not enough time to write long posts. :)

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

I just checked. I haven't done anything in particular to engender the favor of the Mongols, but they are listed as the only nation "Friendly" toward me, with the largest factor being "We care for our brothers and sisters of the faith." It is +5, as opposed to +1 for peace, and +2 for open borders.

[Ben E Lou]

Yeah, that's what I was basically implying in far too little of detail. People keep bothering me at work, leaving me not enough time to write long posts. :)Oh, I thought by "follow" you were referring to the financial bonuses available.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

They've added a good bit to this game. This manual may require 3 or 4 complete readthroughs when all is said and done.

[Celeval]

I'm not sure what determines the size of the religion modifiers - I've seen it all over. Could be length of time with that as the state religion, could be number of cities - but it definately varies.

[Ben E Lou]

I'm not sure what determines the size of the religion modifiers - I've seen it all over. Could be length of time with that as the state religion, could be number of cities - but it definately varies.That should be a good thing, shouldn't it?

[Daimyo]

Religion is very bland. The two benefits seem to be:

1) Diplomacy is easier with nations that share your religion
2) Cities that have the same religion as your state religion seem to get some extra happiness

Most of the time you'll probably set the state religion to be what the majority of your cities are with the exception being when you need to suck up to another civ. I think this is an area that could use better fleshing out in Civ5.

[bigdawg2003]

OK, i bought the game at Walmart, was all ready to install it...............













When i notice I have 2 copies of disc 2 and no disc 1. WTF!? Has anyone else heard of this?

[moriarty]

Religion is very bland. The two benefits seem to be:

1) Diplomacy is easier with nations that share your religion
2) Cities that have the same religion as your state religion seem to get some extra happiness

Most of the time you'll probably set the state religion to be what the majority of your cities are with the exception being when you need to suck up to another civ. I think this is an area that could use better fleshing out in Civ5.

I haven't played it yet, but that beta tester dude who wrote the walkthrough made it seem like religion was very important for the spiritual civs (whatever they are).

[ISiddiqui]

Religion is very bland. The two benefits seem to be:

1) Diplomacy is easier with nations that share your religion
2) Cities that have the same religion as your state religion seem to get some extra happiness

Most of the time you'll probably set the state religion to be what the majority of your cities are with the exception being when you need to suck up to another civ. I think this is an area that could use better fleshing out in Civ5.
I'm assuming part of the reason religion was so bland because they didn't want to piss off anyone. Hell, even with this blandness, we had a thread on Apolyton's Civ4 board a few weeks ago with a guy who wondered if he could rename the religions by editing (he could) because he didn't feel comfortable converting others from Christianity.

[Butter]

OK, i bought the game at Walmart, was all ready to install it...............

When i notice I have 2 copies of disc 2 and no disc 1. WTF!? Has anyone else heard of this?

Yeah, I've heard of it... lots of packing errors with this one, some people got a French language Tech Tree foldout too. Try and exchange it for another copy of the same game.

Another interesting thing I noticed was that Disc 2 is labeled "Play", when in fact you have to have Disc 1 in your drive to actually play.

They must've rushed this baby out the door.

[Daimyo]

I didn't think I'd like the move to a single strength for military units (as opposed to a seperate strength for offense and defense), but so far I like it. They added so many bonuses that two units with the same strength end up being totally different. It also seems (at least in the early game) that while resources are important they're not as make or break as they were in Civ3. For example, you need iron to make the swordsmen (6 strength, +10% city attack), but if you don't have it you can still make longbowmen (6 str, +20% city/hill defense) or axemen (5 str, +50 vs melee) and get by okay. Hopefully that follows in the end game...

I also really love the XP system. You can really customize your armies now much more than before.

[Daimyo]

I'm assuming part of the reason religion was so bland because they didn't want to piss off anyone. Hell, even with this blandness, we had a thread on Apolyton's Civ4 board a few weeks ago with a guy who wondered if he could rename the religions by editing (he could) because he didn't feel comfortable converting others from Christianity.
I'm sure that was their reasoning. I don't really have any answer how it could have been done better but it just feels weird the way it is now (especially since Buddhism seems to always get discovered before Hinduism). I'd almost prefer they had generic names the way its implemented.

[Calis]

Another interesting thing I noticed was that Disc 2 is labeled "Play", when in fact you have to have Disc 1 in your drive to actually play.


Confused the hell out of me for a couple minutes on that one, and it wouldn't even tell you to insert the other disc like most games do, but just gives you a general error that the wrong CD is in.

[Godzilla Blitz]

I didn't think I'd like the move to a single strength for military units (as opposed to a seperate strength for offense and defense), but so far I like it. They added so many bonuses that two units with the same strength end up being totally different. It also seems (at least in the early game) that while resources are important they're not as make or break as they were in Civ3. For example, you need iron to make the swordsmen (6 strength, +10% city attack), but if you don't have it you can still make longbowmen (6 str, +20% city/hill defense) or axemen (5 str, +50 vs melee) and get by okay. Hopefully that follows in the end game...

I also really love the XP system. You can really customize your armies now much more than before.
I'm also impressed with the way artillery assaults (not bombardments) cause collateral damage on stacks. This makes the whole "Uber stack" strategy dangerous, and makes artillery an essential part of a good offensive strategy.

[Galaxy]

Overall,
A great game. The sound, the graphics, the stragety is great.

[sachmo71]

I'm assuming part of the reason religion was so bland because they didn't want to piss off anyone. Hell, even with this blandness, we had a thread on Apolyton's Civ4 board a few weeks ago with a guy who wondered if he could rename the religions by editing (he could) because he didn't feel comfortable converting others from Christianity.


It seems to me that national religion should be a bit harder to change then 1 year of anarchy, but I guess for gameplay purposes it's fine.

[Godzilla Blitz]

It seems to me that national religion should be a bit harder to change then 1 year of anarchy, but I guess for gameplay purposes it's fine. I haven't messed with changing state religions yet, but I believe that although you can change your state religion with one year of anarchy, the religious constituencies in your cities only change much more slowly.

In other words, you can proclaim that your empire is now Buddhist, but you've still got to spread that religion through your land and build it up with temples, etc.

I might be totally wrong on this, though.

The designer's notes at the back of the manual is an interesting read, by the way. It confirms what everyone has said here. they purposely left the religions neutral and non-distinct in order not to piss anyone off.

The whole "vanilla religions" aspect of the game, I would think, will be the first thing that gets a great mod made up for it.

[Mr. Wednesday]

It seems to me that national religion should be a bit harder to change then 1 year of anarchy, but I guess for gameplay purposes it's fine.I dunno... Henry didn't find it all that difficult to change the state religion of England, did he?

[ISiddiqui]

In other words, you can proclaim that your empire is now Buddhist, but you've still got to spread that religion through your land and build it up with temples, etc.

I might be totally wrong on this, though.
No, you are right.

[sachmo71]

I dunno... Henry didn't find it all that difficult to change the state religion of England, did he?


No, he didn't, but it had a number of ramifications, didn't it? At least a bit more than 1 year of anarchy and then having the rest of the world love you?

[Eilim]

remember, a single turn can represent as much as 20-40 years depending on the game settings and when it takes place.

[nilodor]

Turn of anarchy, and the only incentive I can think of to changing is based on whether or not you want other nations to follow your religion.

I think depending on your leaders traits, (Spiritual (Phisophical?) ) you can avoid the turn of anarchy cause by switching civics or religions.

[Solecismic]

People are mentioning that this is now a 3D game. Is it still playable for those of us who get motion sickness with first-person shooters and the like?

[Flasch186]

i think so

[MikeVic]

Anyone have an FAQ they can recommend to me? I had trouble with some stuff in the tutorial... kept on losing money, even at 90% research.... don't understand how Gandhi had two different religions beside his name and I only had one (I founded every religion).

Is there a way to group units, aside from selecting all units of the same type? And is there a way to reduce the sick faces? :cool:

[Buzzbee]

People are mentioning that this is now a 3D game. Is it still playable for those of us who get motion sickness with first-person shooters and the like?
I'm sorry Jim. You will get motion sickness VERY bad with this game. Worse than with FPSs. You should stick to programming instead. Don't waste your valuable time with this game.

























*This has been a public service announcement on behalf of Text Simmers Anonymous

[Flasch186]

well played

[Passacaglia]

Finally got the game working. Played until 2500 BC. I must say that building settlers is a lot harder (unless I just haven't tapped into an easy way around it). The fact that cities don't grow at all during that time really hurts. Although, it seems like it didn't take away from the city's population, right?

I get tons of motion sickness from FPS games -- can't play them for 5 minutes without getting it -- and have no problems with this game.

[moriarty]

Finally got the game working. Played until 2500 BC. I must say that building settlers is a lot harder (unless I just haven't tapped into an easy way around it). The fact that cities don't grow at all during that time really hurts. Although, it seems like it didn't take away from the city's population, right?

I get tons of motion sickness from FPS games -- can't play them for 5 minutes without getting it -- and have no problems with this game.

If you get motion sickness from this game then you probably have a serious problem (i.e. you may need to see a doctor). It's not the usual first person point of view, it's still top down (tilted a bit at max zoom) just with 3D little guys running around.

I've only played an hour or so, but so far I don't like the 3D view. I know I'll get the old schooler bashing for that ... but I have to zoom out to get a good perspective on where I am at in the world, and then zoom in to actually see the units/resources. I find myself constantly zooming in and out which gets kinda annoying. Hopefully it gets better w/ time ... or perhaps someone can give me a tip to avoid this silliness.

[jeff061]

I go back and forth from top down and the first level of slant. Going in and out with the mouse wheel makes it no big deal in my opinion.

And you can turn on massive icons that point ot resources, shouldn't have to zoom in to see them.

[Schmidty]

Just bought this today. I'm starting up a game, and am getting that old excited thrill I used to get with Civ2. I doubt I'll be getting much sleep tonight. :D

[Buccaneer]

Great comments.

I didn't get a chance to read much of the manual at work today but in thinking about what little I played last night, I am a little confused about a basic element of the game. This is a dumb question but here it goes.

I know that in order for a city tile to be worked, you have to have a worker actually build something on it (like a farm, cottage, mine, etc.). Once the tile has completed its improvement, then it automatically gets added to the city's attributes and then the worker can go and improve another tile. In Civ2, the number of tiles you "work" (didn't have to build anything on them to get the goods) is directly related to the city's population. So what is the relationship in Civ4 between city population, workers and improved tiles?

[vyshka]

Anybody else hit any of the graphics problems in the game? I was doing the tutorial and my mini-map looked all f*cked up. Then in the middle of the tutorial the screen went nuts and looked like a checkerboard pattern, and I had to reboot the system. From what I have seen on some of the Civ forums other people are having worse problems, but many people are able to enjoy the game.

[jeff061]

Early in the game when I zoom all the way out large portions of the map are staticy and messed up. It goes away eventually, either as I uncover the map or my territory expands, I'm not sure. That's the only problem I've experienced.

[Buccaneer]

I made a comment earlier about visual overload and I think one of the culprits is the unit shown as multiple units thing. I really don't understand why they had to do that since showing 4 units as a Settler is still an abstraction, no different than having 1 unit as a Settler. Show multiple graphics per unit makes the gameworld needlessly cluttered, imo. Thank god there's the option to show just one unit.

[jeff061]

Great comments.

I didn't get a chance to read much of the manual at work today but in thinking about what little I played last night, I am a little confused about a basic element of the game. This is a dumb question but here it goes.

I know that in order for a city tile to be worked, you have to have a worker actually build something on it (like a farm, cottage, mine, etc.). Once the tile has completed its improvement, then it automatically gets added to the city's attributes and then the worker can go and improve another tile. In Civ2, the number of tiles you "work" (didn't have to build anything on them to get the goods) is directly related to the city's population. So what is the relationship in Civ4 between city population, workers and improved tiles?

I had thought this remained the same, but you've now instilled some doubt in me. I never played civ2. Maybe the difference is only happy workers can work in Civ4, not unhappy ones.

[Passacaglia]

I made a comment earlier about visual overload and I think one of the culprits is the unit shown as multiple units thing. I really don't understand why they had to do that since showing 4 units as a Settler is still an abstraction, no different than having 1 unit as a Settler. Show multiple graphics per unit makes the gameworld needlessly cluttered, imo. Thank god there's the option to show just one unit.

There is? I will have to look for it.

[Airhog]

Great comments.

I didn't get a chance to read much of the manual at work today but in thinking about what little I played last night, I am a little confused about a basic element of the game. This is a dumb question but here it goes.

I know that in order for a city tile to be worked, you have to have a worker actually build something on it (like a farm, cottage, mine, etc.). Once the tile has completed its improvement, then it automatically gets added to the city's attributes and then the worker can go and improve another tile. In Civ2, the number of tiles you "work" (didn't have to build anything on them to get the goods) is directly related to the city's population. So what is the relationship in Civ4 between city population, workers and improved tiles?

It works the same as in Civ2 bucc. You can work any tile with your population, but you get bonues if you build the right type of improvement on the land.

[moriarty]

There is? I will have to look for it.

I haven't found it yet either, but i'm looking.

[Buccaneer]

It's under Game Options and then I believe the 3rd or 4th tab.

[Flasch186]

i will say i am consistently losing battles even when I have the advantage. sure could be a run of dumb luck but i will say Im frustrated right now by the loss after loss when the ratio should be in my favor.

[Buccaneer]

It works the same as in Civ2 bucc. You can work any tile with your population, but you get bonues if you build the right type of improvement on the land.
Hmm...so how would I know (or assign) my 1 pop to use a certain tile?

[Buccaneer]

i will say i am consistently losing battles even when I have the advantage. sure could be a run of dumb luck but i will say Im frustrated right now by the loss after loss when the ratio should be in my favor.
Did you check all of the modifiers?

From what little I've seen, I like the simplified Combat rating plus the wide variety of modifiers. I also think the Promotions system sounds very cool but hope it doesn't prove to be too much micromanagement.

[Buccaneer]

Cycling through the leader animations, I find Catherine of Russia to be absolutely stunning, with Isabela of Spain close behind.

[Airhog]

Defenders get a huge bonus when defending a city with walls. It is very difficult to take over a large city, probably until you get gunpowder.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Defenders get a huge bonus when defending a city with walls. It is very difficult to take over a large city, probably until you get gunpowder.
Catapults for the win! Bombard first to lower defenses to zero, then lead your assaults with them. When you assault with a catapult is causes collateral damage that weakens all other enemy units in the same area. Massive defensive piles fall with ease.

Helps to give your catapults the promotions to increase collateral damage.

[Bonegavel]

This game just "feels" right. On the surface the game is yet another SM Civ game, and that isn't a bad thing (I still have the original box and 3.5's - played the HELL out of that version).

However, underneath that familiar feel is an immensely improved game. The streamlining of the interface is, so far, my favorite change.

I have only played a few games thus far, but I already have the feeling that Sid and Co. have managed to blend the choices (high level vs. micromanagement) perfectly; I can zip through the game at a good clip and still be "in touch" with my empire, but any time I wish I can roll up my sleeves and get under the hood.

To me, that is the ultimate game design.

Anyone interested in Mulitplayer?

[Airhog]

Hmm...so how would I know (or assign) my 1 pop to use a certain tile?


I think that you have to deselect auto-population management from the city screen. But I am not sure if you only have a city of 1 size, if you are able to move it to a different square from your city.

[Bonegavel]

Defenders get a huge bonus when defending a city with walls. It is very difficult to take over a large city, probably until you get gunpowder.
Yes, taking a city is no longer a simple matter of creating a giant stack of units and throwing it at a city.

The age-old problem of a archers taking down a tank is still in the game. I am able to overcome the problem by not thinking of the units in terms of what they are (archer, axeman, stealth bomber), but rather that they are just a combination of numbers. Silly, but helps me sleep.

[Airhog]

Catapults for the win! Bombard first to lower defenses to zero, then lead your assaults with them. When you assault with a catapult is causes collateral damage that weakens all other enemy units in the same area. Massive defensive piles fall with ease.

Helps to give your catapults the promotions to increase collateral damage.

I need to try that next game. I tried that late in the game last time, but I think I selected attack instead of bombard.

The computer also attacked me a few times, but they never bombarded me.

[Bonegavel]

Hmm...so how would I know (or assign) my 1 pop to use a certain tile?
If you are asking what I think you are, just go to the city screen and the tiles circled in white are the worked tiles.

Simply click on a white circle to De-select it and then select the tile you wish to work.

[Buccaneer]

Bonegavel: You're right, I got it figured out now and it is just like Civ2 in that respect. I think the tutorial did a poor job in explaining that and had to start a regular game just to see how to manage cities.

I need to try that next game. I tried that late in the game last time, but I think I selected attack instead of bombard.

The computer also attacked me a few times, but they never bombarded me.
With the new siege attacks, are you better able to bring units 1 tile from a city and have them sit there? You try that in Civ2 and you will lose all of your units. How is bombarding done safely?

[vex]

The wonder movies are still disappointing compared to Civ II imo.

[Airhog]

Impressions of my first MP Game.

The game proceeded pretty quickly actually, we were nearing the renisance age by the time I had to leave, after just 2 hours of gameplay. Granted, the settings were on fast, and it was a small map. RailsFS led the whole game, except for like 1 turn near the beginning. I seem to suffer major cash problems around the middle of the classical age, and basically cut my research to 50%. I think the AI definately undervalues producing gold in the beginning, which is a shame, because you need some to keep 100% research.

Anyways, about 600AD, he attacked me. I was unprepared, and he quickly razed two of my smaller cities. We then settled into a basic deadlock, with him having the upperhand. I don't think I did a very good job managing my troops, and my troops were definately second class to his. I was also slowed down by the many rivers in my kingdom, and no-one knew how to build a bridge over them. I finally brought a long siege against one of his cities, but even with everything I could muster, I was unable to capture it. Against a well fortified enemy, it is nearly impossible to take a city. If I had one major gripe about the game so far, it has to be this. Catapults are nice, because the reduce the cities defense bonus, but they gain no experience for bombardment, only melee. And any damage they did in my game to troops in the city was nil. Maybe the upgraded one's work much better though. Anyways, i had a blast, and hope that I can play again, with more FOFC people.

[Airhog]

dola here, but MP is silky smooth. It plays just like a single player game, albeit a tad bit slower. There is a timer thank god. The nice thing about the timer, is that it seems to grow as the game goes on, which is nice. I never ran out of time, and never felt like I was rushed much. Moves are simultainously, which works well when you are at war.

[MikeVic]

Stupid French... I've destroyed 2 Indian cities with airstrikes, and the French just walk in and take it over. :mad: Our peaceful treaty will be ending sometime soon....

I'm getting pretty bad gameplay slowdown now in the 1900s. Everything moves slowly. Don't know why.

How does multiplayer work in Civ games? Is it still turn-based, or is it real-time?

[Eaglesfan27]

I had to drive 700 miles (350 plus round-trip today) due to a few things. The one major positive is that I picked this game up in Shreveport while I was there. The only downside is that I'm too tired to start playing tonight (and afraid of it keeping me up too late.) However, I can't wait to start playing tomorrow and posting some impressions. The instruction manual at first glance appears to be very nice and I love the tech tree foldout.

[Airhog]

It is still turn based, you can select individual turns, or everyone goes at the same time. It just a bit slower than playing by yourself.

[MikeVic]

It is still turn based, you can select individual turns, or everyone goes at the same time. It just a bit slower than playing by yourself.

So if you pick that everyone goes at the same time, does the turn end when everyone says they're done?

[dubb93]

Yea, they really overdid the graphics on this one. I mean, my system will run Nascar SimRacing, Rise of Nations with all the expansions, and Rome: Total War with no problems at all(last 3 games I bought) with most of the graphic options turned all the way up but with this game I just got so many graphical problems that it made it unplayable so I returned it for my money back.

The main problems were I had to zoom out on the world map so far that I couldn't see my units(IE, all the freakin way out) just to see anything other than my units and resources. Everything else was pitch black. Also, the leaders skin wouldn't show it. It was really crazy. All they were, were floating eyes, lips, and the clothing and glasses they had on. No skin at all.

Oh well, I'm sure it looks good on other computers, but they really should have realized they were making a turn based strategy game instead of Doom 3 with the graphics.

[Ben E Lou]

Is it just me, or do the 3-d unit graphics require zooming in much more than in past versions just to tell what is what?

[Peregrine]

i will say i am consistently losing battles even when I have the advantage. sure could be a run of dumb luck but i will say Im frustrated right now by the loss after loss when the ratio should be in my favor.

Definitely check the modifiers. In many cases city defenders are getting terrain bonuses, wall bonuses, they may also be trained city garrison defenders, etc. Another key thing is first strike, it's what makes bowmen/machine guns so good as defenders, that first strike thing is pretty lethal. You can right click and hold on a city or enemy army to see the attack odds, when I found this out I was amazed to see that that 6 strength longbowman had an effective defensive strength of over 17 with all the modifiers!


Best bet is to do bombardment to lower the city defenses, and attack with artillery units for collateral damage. Since there are so many coastal cities, I find navies are critical for offshore bombardment.

The one thing that seems different for me about combat is the number of units you lose, I definitely seem to be going through more units than in previous civs. The artillery system seems a bit strange to me, shouldn't I have an option to attack cities from a distance with them? If I just attack directly, I'll do the collateral damage but almost always lose the artillery unit.

As a side note, I was browsing the list of tips and found some really interesting commands, I knew for example that you can tag a unit by using Ctrl-# and then just press the # key to center on that unit, but you can also do the same thing in a city and it copies the production queue, then you can go to another city, press that number and the same queue will immediately appear! Pretty cool.

[Ben E Lou]

AS far as game length goes, I'm playing an "Epic" game on a very large map, and things are progressing nice and slowly as far as I'm concerned.

[Celeval]

So if you pick that everyone goes at the same time, does the turn end when everyone says they're done?
In Civ III (and I'm pretty sure IV is the same way) there's a timer as well - either when everyone is done or when the timer runs out is when the turn swaps. You could choose (generally) how long the timer would run at the start of the game. Also, I /think/ it was shorter at the start than at the end of the game, but that could just be perception.

[Ben E Lou]

I'm not sure what determines the size of the religion modifiers - I've seen it all over. Could be length of time with that as the state religion, could be number of cities - but it definately varies.I just got England to convert to my religion, and I only get a +1 bonus from her right now. I'm guessing that will increase over time...

[WrongWay]

AS far as game length goes, I'm playing an "Epic" game on a very large map, and things are progressing nice and slowly as far as I'm concerned.
This is what I want to hear. :)

[Ben E Lou]

I *really* like the specialization that unit promotion allows.

[WrongWay]

I am here hoping to read a post from that freakin idiot that is just now, 7am, turning off his computer and going to bed after pulling an all nighter playing Civ4.

This is something I never that saw from AOE-3.

[vex]

I am here hoping to read a post from that freakin idiot that is just now, 7am, turning off his computer and going to bed after pulling an all nighter playing Civ4.

This is something I never that saw from AOE-3.
2 or 3AM everynight for me, but not 7...yet.

[Eilim]

I am here hoping to read a post from that freakin idiot that is just now, 7am, turning off his computer and going to bed after pulling an all nighter playing Civ4.

This is something I never that saw from AOE-3.

Hey, no need to call me names!
:p

Luckily I have somewhat a decent excuse. Starting a third shift job next week. So I'm just trying to acclimate myself to a new sleeping pattern... Yeah, thats it. :D

Even sadder is I've yet to win in about 12 attempts and its not slowed me down one bit. Heck, The game I just finished has to be close to some sort of record for shortest amount of time played before being wiped out. I had just finished my second city when I had two civs declare war on me. Needless to say it wasn't pretty.

I've yet to give up on the noble level, as two second place finishes in a row before that last debacle had me under the illusion of getting better. I still have to learn to adapt better to various starting resource/location situations when planning my tech advances and starting build order.

[moriarty]

Is it just me, or do the 3-d unit graphics require zooming in much more than in past versions just to tell what is what?

I'm definitely of the same opinion. I guess it looks nicer, but it's actually hampered the gameplay somewhat IMO. I'm still hoping I'll get used to it.

[Buccaneer]

I'm definitely of the same opinion. I guess it looks nicer, but it's actually hampered the gameplay somewhat IMO. I'm still hoping I'll get used to it.
That was what I was allude to earlier, I think. Units, tile productions, etc. should be clearly recognizable upon first glance. When units go into forests, for example, it becomes hard to tell what they are without having go through unproductive steps of either zooming in or moving the cursor over them. I think they single-unit graphics are nice (multi-unit graphics suck, imo) but they should be dominant over the terrain, not blend into the terrain. The same thing with the specials/resources symbols. Having a tan colored slice of bread against a tan desert or plains background is not clear. Again, some of those symbols blend too much into the terrain graphics.

[Buccaneer]

dola

But fortunately, they are moddable and I am sure we'll see alternate options from the likes of sn00py et al.

[ISiddiqui]

Yea, they really overdid the graphics on this one. I mean, my system will run Nascar SimRacing, Rise of Nations with all the expansions, and Rome: Total War with no problems at all(last 3 games I bought) with most of the graphic options turned all the way up but with this game I just got so many graphical problems that it made it unplayable so I returned it for my money back.

The main problems were I had to zoom out on the world map so far that I couldn't see my units(IE, all the freakin way out) just to see anything other than my units and resources. Everything else was pitch black. Also, the leaders skin wouldn't show it. It was really crazy. All they were, were floating eyes, lips, and the clothing and glasses they had on. No skin at all.

Oh well, I'm sure it looks good on other computers, but they really should have realized they were making a turn based strategy game instead of Doom 3 with the graphics.Apparently there is a problem with ATI cards. I'm sure the problems there will be fixed with the patch. Though there is also some discussion that the black terrain issue may be because video cards can't display real T&L. Whether it can be fixed is up to Firaxis, I guess.

[saldana]

the kissing of my wifes ass has been successful. i am installing now.

[vex]

I like turing on the resource "highlighter". Makes it much easier to see the resources.

[Ben E Lou]

I like turing on the resource "highlighter". Makes it much easier to see the resources....but harder to distinguish the units, at least for me.

[jeff061]

I think that'll go away after awhile. Every game I play I get better at telling the units apart.

[vex]

Is it not possible to abandon a city?

[Buccaneer]

Is it not possible to clear the Hall of Fame? I had to uninstall and reinstall the game since the tutorial messed it up.

[Ben E Lou]

My STARS, talk about a resource hog. Just out of curiosity, I just loaded Civ4 up on my home desktop (P4/1.5GHz/512MB/GeForce2). It took a long time to load, but I just wanted to see if I could play it. No joke, from the time I hit the "B" button to build my first city until the time the what-to-build dialog came up was easily over 2 minutes. :eek: Glad I'm getting a new one soon...

[Barkeep49]

Well I broke down and bought it yesterday. Turned out the guy behind me in line was an Apolytpon mod so we had a nice conversation as we both waited to get the game. I've only had limited chance to play, but it feels like a completely different Civ game than any of the first three. I've had NONE of the performance issues others have had (I have an ATI card) so that pleased me. I love the Leonard Nemoy narration (reminds me of Alpha Centurai). In my first few games I've been ravaged by Barbarians so I need to re-evaluate that aspect. All-in-all I am pleased with my early hours of the game.

[jeff061]

I actually started playing it at 1920x1440 :). Looks awesome. But the UI doesn't scale with the resolution and was really small. Bummer.

[Eilim]

Is it not possible to clear the Hall of Fame? I had to uninstall and reinstall the game since the tutorial messed it up.


Took a quick look in CvHallOfFameScreen.py and found out it parses the hall of fame on the fly from your saved replays. So if you clear out the replays from \My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Replays , it should clear out your hall of fame. Doesn't seem like there is any form of index either so if you feel like being cheezy you could just delete the embarassing replays to remove those results from the hall.

[MikeVic]

Is it just me, or when you have a fairly sizeable army and have a lot left over after a war... you kind of have to go to war with someone else, or else the troops just eat up your money like crazy?

I have about 100 turns left and am winning in points. However, I'm losing over 100 gold per turn (I'm assuming it's because of my army?). I don't want to attack the other civs because they were nice to me the whole game (only France and India were assholes, so I eliminated them). But I now have a buch of tanks, bombers, and airships with nothing to do.

[Ben E Lou]

{snip}...I don't want to attack the other civs because they were nice to me the whole game...{/snip}...{snip}But I now have a buch of tanks, bombers, and airships with nothing to do.{/snip}Sissy.

[Celeval]

Is it just me, or when you have a fairly sizeable army and have a lot left over after a war... you kind of have to go to war with someone else, or else the troops just eat up your money like crazy?

I have about 100 turns left and am winning in points. However, I'm losing over 100 gold per turn (I'm assuming it's because of my army?). I don't want to attack the other civs because they were nice to me the whole game (only France and India were assholes, so I eliminated them). But I now have a buch of tanks, bombers, and airships with nothing to do.
You can disband units (the skull icon when a unit is activated).

Some previous version gave you something (gold? shields?) if you did that in a city, but I'm not sure which or if it will this time.

[Eilim]

I actually started playing it at 1920x1440 :). Looks awesome. But the UI doesn't scale with the resolution and was really small. Bummer.

I'm sure eventually some modders will tweak the interface (or design completely new ones) for some of the resolutions that the default one doesn't seem to suit so well.

Looks like it could be done easily enough by scaling some .tga files and tweaking the Civ4Theme_HUD.thm file (most likely a few of the other generic .thm files too.)

[Bonegavel]

Technically speaking, the multiplayer works as intended. I haven't dropped once. Other players have, but I'm assuming that is because of quitting and not the connection.

I've come to like the 30 second timer games. No time to mess around.

Anyone here looking for MP? Should we start a thread?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Some previous version gave you something (gold? shields?) if you did that in a city, but I'm not sure which or if it will this time.Civ3 would give you shields on disbanding a unit in a city (some fraction of the original cost), except towards a wonder. I thought that was reasonable.

[moriarty]

Anyone here looking for MP? Should we start a thread?

Are you kidding, or did you miss the other thread?

edit: they were trying to start up one in the multiplayer test thread. Maybe we need a clearer: Multiplayer signup thread or something.

[Airhog]

Technically speaking, the multiplayer works as intended. I haven't dropped once. Other players have, but I'm assuming that is because of quitting and not the connection.

I've come to like the 30 second timer games. No time to mess around.

Anyone here looking for MP? Should we start a thread?

We have a thread. And just so everyone knows, I am going to start a new game this evening around 7:00pm CST. The game itself will being at 7:30, so everyone has plenty of time to get in. It will be 5 players max, and I will make sure this time to start the AI civ's :D Please join early if you can, and help me select the options. Anyone else can join up later in the evening if they wish.

Game will be called FOFC Multiplayer
Password: trout

[moriarty]

We have a thread. And just so everyone knows, I am going to start a new game this evening around 7:00pm CST. The game itself will being at 7:30, so everyone has plenty of time to get in. It will be 5 players max, and I will make sure this time to start the AI civ's :D Please join early if you can, and help me select the options. Anyone else can join up later in the evening if they wish.

Game will be called FOFC Multiplayer Test
Password: trout

Why only 5 players max ? Does it put a strain on the server or something to have too many players, or you just don't think you'll get that many folks?

[Airhog]

Max number of players is determined by the map size. I have no problems playing on a larger map, but it takes longer, and I would like to finish the game in one sitting. If we do get 8 people wanting to play, we could play on a larger map, and move the starting era up to medieval or Renaissance

[Godzilla Blitz]

Is it just me, or when you have a fairly sizeable army and have a lot left over after a war... you kind of have to go to war with someone else, or else the troops just eat up your money like crazy?

I have about 100 turns left and am winning in points. However, I'm losing over 100 gold per turn (I'm assuming it's because of my army?). I don't want to attack the other civs because they were nice to me the whole game (only France and India were assholes, so I eliminated them). But I now have a buch of tanks, bombers, and airships with nothing to do.
The costs for military units vary a lot depending on what civics you are using. If you look through your civics options, you'll probably notice a couple of ways to reduce your military overhead significantly.

[MikeVic]

The costs for military units vary a lot depending on what civics you are using. If you look through your civics options, you'll probably notice a couple of ways to reduce your military overhead significantly.

I lowered reasearch to 70% since I only had a couple more to discover... and I ended up winning the game by time at the end.

I don't understand the benefit of stacking units? If I bomb a stack, everyone receiver damage. If they're spread around, won't that be better?

[ISiddiqui]

Got it today... loving it! I'm actually playing with a 32 MB VRam card (UNDER MIN Specs), and it's running fine! A little slowdown, but hopefully it won't continue :D.

[Eaglesfan27]

I just had a blast playing the tutorial for 3 hours (despite it being the easiest level.) Even though, I'm getting tired, I want to jump back into one more game and play just a "few more turns." I think this game is going to be nice and addictive for me :)


No problems with my ATI card either.

[Godzilla Blitz]

I lowered reasearch to 70% since I only had a couple more to discover... and I ended up winning the game by time at the end.

I don't understand the benefit of stacking units? If I bomb a stack, everyone receiver damage. If they're spread around, won't that be better?
Congrats on the win!

I seem to be leaning towards stacks of six units or so. Offhand, I can think of a few benefits to stacking. I'm sure there are more:
1. Healing units heal everyone else in the stack.
2. Combining defensive units and offensive units gives maximum punch and maximum defense.
3. Siege weapons on their own are meat.

The risk though, is that a few collateral damage weapons can reduce a stack in one turn. The collateral damage concept is simple yet brilliant, IMHO. That one subtle addition to the game eliminates the Uberstack strategy, and makes for some interesting decisions.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Finished my first game tonight. Small planet, five nations. Got a space race win in 1992. 5981 for an adjusted Hall of Fame score, but I'm a bit skeptical of this part. It lists my difficulty as "Noble", but I swear I set it at "Warlord" when I started the game.

I was quite impressed with the endgame. I the previous Civs I have played, the last 50-100 turns of the game got progressively time-consuming and required more and more micro-management. This first game of Civ IV was a breeze at the back end: very little micro-management and very smooth gameplay.

[Eilim]

GB, just curious what Nation/Leader you went with for your win? I'm still using random at the moment to check them all out and see if I can find one that just clicks with me at this point.

[Godzilla Blitz]

GB, just curious what Nation/Leader you went with for your win? I'm still using random at the moment to check them all out and see if I can find one that just clicks with me at this point.
I just went with random. Ended up with the Egyptians. The other four opponents were the Germans, Russians, Chinese, and Aztecs (I think). Eliminated the Russians, became close with the Germans, stayed fairly neutral with the Aztecs, and pretty much pissed off the Chinese (although they never attacked).

I found the Egyptians' special unit, the War Chariot, pretty unimpressive, but that may just have been because I didn't know how to use it properly. Didn't really check to see what the other benefits were to being Egyptian (if there are even any other benefits).

[Eilim]

Egyptians are actually one of the civs I tend to do better with as they fit my playstyle. You start with the wheel and agriculture so you can get out a productive worker quickly while focusing on another tech branch. Usually I go religion as with Cleo beign spirtual and creative you can turn the Egyptions into cultural/spiritual powerhouses.(less combat needed to rule the world, my personal preference.)

Also, those chariots are pretty decent in ancient. They don't take first strikes so can actually deal with archers decently when on the offensive and with the extra movement they work quite well patrolling out of your cities to take on any early barbarians attacks before they can do any pillaging.With the upgrade path of horse archer-knight they stay viable units for while if you have the cash as they have some pretty sweet promotion options.

Oop, sorry about rambling... I'm far too hooked on this game for my own good. :)

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm far too hooked on this game for my own good. :)
Me too. It is only when I started falling asleep at the keyboard that I decided it was time to stop playing for the night ;)

[Ben E Lou]

I'm having to adjust to the concept that it would appear that specialists>citizens now.

[henry296]

Had my first one turn more turn night. Probably the first of many. At 1:40 my wife yelled down if I was coming to bed. I said soon... Soon was 3 AM.

Have a nice game as the Americans. I played for about 6 hours and it still in the 1300s AD. I am at war with the Romans and have pushed him back to 3 cities. I need to regroup for the final barrage.

I am still trying to figure out the best strategy for the Great people.

[saldana]

as far as the game goes, so far i like it quite a bit, no real complaints yet. i really like the terrain factor as it applies to combat, and the unpassable mountains make for an interesting defensive feature. the fact that you can right click to move units is awesome as well, especially for me on a laptop. my only complaint is that i have to have my laptop plugged in..when its on battery, the animations all skip.

[Passacaglia]

Had my first one turn more turn night. Probably the first of many. At 1:40 my wife yelled down if I was coming to bed. I said soon... Soon was 3 AM.

Have a nice game as the Americans. I played for about 6 hours and it still in the 1300s AD. I am at war with the Romans and have pushed him back to 3 cities. I need to regroup for the final barrage.

I am still trying to figure out the best strategy for the Great people.

Don't forget daylight savings -- it was really only 20 minutes later! :D

[Peregrine]

I'm definitely enjoying the game a lot so far, there are a lot of improvements from the previous games, the streamlining of the interface (rarely having to go into the city screen is nice,) the new diplomacy, the combat system (promotions are very nice) and the added tile improvement options. The games seem to go by a lot faster than they used to, I think I need to play one on Epic and see how it goes.

[Northwood_DK]

After all the positive press the game has received here on the board I finally decided to go out and buy the game yesterday. Just too bad I didn’t check the European release date first.

I will not be in the shops until 04Nov!!!

I’m still a bit worried about having to run it on my laptop with an ATI-card. Have anyone experienced any problems with a Radeon 9700 card?

[Capital]

This board helped me decide to purchase the game as well.

[Eilim]

Sometime soon we'll have to try an FOFC succesion game, should be fun. I'm too busy trying to end my losing streak to get in one myself at the moment. :( *grumble* I will beat Noble.. I will beat Noble.. I have a new mortal enemy now, to heck with Saladin.. its that warmonger Montezuma who's getting on my nerves now.

[Passacaglia]

What's a succession game?

[Eilim]

What's a succession game?

Basicly a game shared among players where each one controls the civ for a set amount of turns, then passes the save file on to the next player to continue. Basicly just a "shared" game.

Here are two ongoing ones I've enjoyed following to give you a better idea:
Variant Succesion Game link (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=133492) , and Rome Succesion Game (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139724)

[Passacaglia]

Basicly a game shared among players where each one controls the civ for a set amount of turns, then passes the save file on to the next player to continue. Basicly just a "shared" game.

Here are two ongoing ones I've enjoyed following to give you a better idea:
Variant Succesion Game link (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=133492) , and Rome Succesion Game (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139724)

Sounds about what I figured. Sounds interesting!

[Airhog]

Let me give you my thoughts of a multiplayer game.

Long and Slow....

The normal time limit is too long, for a regular game. 7 hours with 6 other people is just too much time. Another problem I have, is that War is pretty pointless with other human civ's. Im my game I had really pushed my military. I was the first to upgrade my longbowmen to troops with gunpowder. I attacked a human civ, and got into a long drawn out war. Really wound up hurting my chances for victory.

There are a few quirks to playing MP, and we also found one bug. One of our players crashed whenever he tried to view the gamelog. It is also too easy to kick another player accidently. Im pretty sure I kicked vex, and grey on accident simply because they hadn't voted yet, and I hit the save button, which didnt make any sense.

The only major slowdown occurs when someone leaves or joins. Not too bad in that department. Now, I need to verify this, but I am not sure if you are the host, if you can quit the game early. I wanna test this. Otherwise, this game could really use a standalone host. I think they said they would release that later down the road.

[Calis]

I’m still a bit worried about having to run it on my laptop with an ATI-card. Have anyone experienced any problems with a Radeon 9700 card?

I have a 9700 and don't have any problems. There's some occasional slowdowns, but nothing major.

[Northwood_DK]

I have a 9700 and don't have any problems. There's some occasional slowdowns, but nothing major.

Thanks now I just have to wait until Friday to get he game. I really don’t help that we keep turning the clock back….

[jbmagic]

what playing level are you guys currently playing on?

[Airhog]

Both MP games we played, all the human civ's were on warlord...

[Bonegavel]

Let me give you my thoughts of a multiplayer game.

Long and Slow....

The normal time limit is too long, for a regular game. 7 hours with 6 other people is just too much time. Another problem I have, is that War is pretty pointless with other human civ's. Im my game I had really pushed my military. I was the first to upgrade my longbowmen to troops with gunpowder. I attacked a human civ, and got into a long drawn out war. Really wound up hurting my chances for victory.

You have to try 30 second or less timers. Reminds me of Blitz chess which leaves you very little time to muck about, but really helps things speed along.

Until they have the pitboss feature available, this is the only way to play MP, IMHO.

[jbmagic]

You have to try 30 second or less timers. Reminds me of Blitz chess which leaves you very little time to muck about, but really helps things speed along.

Until they have the pitboss feature available, this is the only way to play MP, IMHO.


that will be so hard. because there a lot to do sometimes your going to need more time to look over things especially late stages.

very hard to micromanage everything yourself in 30 seconds in middle and late stages.

i think micromanaging everything yourself is way better than letting the Ai do it for you.

maybe changing the speed can help. so production is faster.

[daedalus]

What's a succession game?Basicly a game shared among players where each one controls the civ for a set amount of turns, then passes the save file on to the next player to continue. Basicly just a "shared" game.

Here are two ongoing ones I've enjoyed following to give you a better idea:
Variant Succesion Game link (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=133492) , and Rome Succesion Game (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139724)I have nothing to contribute other than to say that this reminds me of the Village Challenges.

[Eaglesfan27]

After all the positive press the game has received here on the board I finally decided to go out and buy the game yesterday. Just too bad I didn’t check the European release date first.

I will not be in the shops until 04Nov!!!

I’m still a bit worried about having to run it on my laptop with an ATI-card. Have anyone experienced any problems with a Radeon 9700 card?

I don't know about that card, but I have one of the newest ATI cards, and it is running with no problems.

I just realized I actually played til almost 3:30 AM last night before the time switch is factored in. Those 6 hours flew by :)

[Eaglesfan27]

Sometime soon we'll have to try an FOFC succesion game, should be fun. I'm too busy trying to end my losing streak to get in one myself at the moment. :( *grumble* I will beat Noble.. I will beat Noble.. I have a new mortal enemy now, to heck with Saladin.. its that warmonger Montezuma who's getting on my nerves now.
What!?! I was at war with Saladin when I saved last night because of your advice to always wipe him out! ;)

[Eilim]

What!?! I was at war with Saladin when I saved last night because of your advice to always wipe him out! ;)

Well, the first 4 games where I got my ass whooped on, he was always in first. :mad: The 4th game sent me over the edge because we had been somewhat of allies up to that point with me being the #1 and him #2 score wise when he back-stabbed me allying with the #4 and #5 Civs turning the game into a dogpile on Eilim match.. *grumble*

Montezuma.. Well, he's just montezuma... If he's bordering you, you *will* end up in a war with him, usually sooner rather than later. With my playstyle, early wars just completely throw me off my game. Really trying improve on that now.

My main problems now are early wars throwing me off, and picking the wrong damn allies. Seems I'm almost always being left in the cold by my allies while having to engage in multi-front wars. Might have to play some "throw away" games practicing different diplomacy tactics to get a better feel for them.

[Airhog]

Until the stand-alone server is done, it will just not work to play slow. I think some compromises have to be made when playing MP, and I think micromanaging is probably the first thing to go. Then again, I havent managed my workers at all in the games I have played so far.

The second problem is getting people back into a already started game. If you save a game with 6 other people it is going to be very hard to get those people back.

[Airhog]

Dola: I wanna test something out. Im going to create a lobby and would like at least one person to join. Then I will start the game and quit. I wanna know if the game continues on after the person who starts the game leaves.

Room will be FOFC Test
PW: trout

[Eaglesfan27]

Well, the first 4 games where I got my ass whooped on, he was always in first. :mad: The 4th game sent me over the edge because we had been somewhat of allies up to that point with me being the #1 and him #2 score wise when he back-stabbed me allying with the #4 and #5 Civs turning the game into a dogpile on Eilim match.. *grumble*

Montezuma.. Well, he's just montezuma... If he's bordering you, you *will* end up in a war with him, usually sooner rather than later. With my playstyle, early wars just completely throw me off my game. Really trying improve on that now.

My main problems now are early wars throwing me off, and picking the wrong damn allies. Seems I'm almost always being left in the cold by my allies while having to engage in multi-front wars. Might have to play some "throw away" games practicing different diplomacy tactics to get a better feel for them.
Ahh, he was #2 in my game last night (I was #1) and I thought best to knock off my toughest, closest rival, so it might work out ok. NFL trumps this game today, but I can't wait to play some more tonight.

[jbmagic]

airhog is there a way to set a time limit for the game. like 2 hours and who ever ahead after 2 hours wins the game.

this way you can set the timer per turn still but have a limit on when the game will end.

[moriarty]

Let me give you my thoughts of a multiplayer game.

Long and Slow....

The normal time limit is too long, for a regular game. 7 hours with 6 other people is just too much time. Another problem I have, is that War is pretty pointless with other human civ's. Im my game I had really pushed my military. I was the first to upgrade my longbowmen to troops with gunpowder. I attacked a human civ, and got into a long drawn out war. Really wound up hurting my chances for victory.

There are a few quirks to playing MP, and we also found one bug. One of our players crashed whenever he tried to view the gamelog. It is also too easy to kick another player accidently. Im pretty sure I kicked vex, and grey on accident simply because they hadn't voted yet, and I hit the save button, which didnt make any sense.

The only major slowdown occurs when someone leaves or joins. Not too bad in that department. Now, I need to verify this, but I am not sure if you are the host, if you can quit the game early. I wanna test this. Otherwise, this game could really use a standalone host. I think they said they would release that later down the road.

I agree the game last night was too long. I had to tap out at six hours (bummed I invested all that time and didn't get to the finish). I think playing w/ a faster timer/development and/or multiple 3 hour sessions is the only way to keep it from going too long.

I actually thought the game play was still pretty fast (just takes to long to advance to the finish). You definitely got your techs developed quickly, and when I was getting attacked on opposite borders it was all i could do to keep up.

Other random MP thoughts:
I'm still not sure i figured out the diplomacy screen in MP. It took me like 30 minutes to realize when I was getting a dialing noise, that someone was trying to enter diplomacy with me (you have to actively click on them to call up the screen). Even then, half the time on the screen I wasn't sure people were getting my offers, or what I was really being offered. You don't get that nice graphical picture of the guy saying "I offer you this ..." like you do with a computer AI. Maybe it was just me.

Definitely have to protect all your cities. With the AI you can play fairly passive, but be assured w/ human opponents someone (and someoneS) will attack. I was so busy defending one of my cities i didn't realize Jeff had attacked my capital.

Which leads to another point. I guess you have to understand the sounds/audio warnings b/c when stuff starts happening hot and heavy, you can't read the little tiny messages. I had no idea someone else had declared war on me until they were at my capital. Might be a good idea to post sentries as well so that the become 'active' warning you when someone passes your border.

It helps to understand the technology tree. Advances come so fast, you don't have time to look up and see where you're going with them. I was researching stuff blind not knowing what if any help it would provide in the long run (other than the short descripton).

Beware the city poachers. A couple times i was bashing away on a city, only to have someone else (another human) bring in a fresh army and take the city after i did all the hard work. B/c they can attack simultaneously, they can take it over while you're still fighting. And often your army is so depleted by that point (it's hard to capture cities) that you can't really declare war on the poacher.

All in all - great fun on MP, just a bit too long.

[Airhog]

Okay, I had my question anwsered. If you host the game, and quit later on, it will switch the hosts to someone else. :D

[Airhog]

My goal was to basically rush to get the gunpowder upgrades on my longbowmen once you were attacked moriarty, as they go from 6 to 14. Even then, it took an army at least 25-30% larger to take on a group of 6 and 9's defending a city.


I really think that science is the only way to play. Culture and religion both take a back seat at the lower levels of gameplay.

[Calis]

Other random MP thoughts:
I'm still not sure i figured out the diplomacy screen in MP. It took me like 30 minutes to realize when I was getting a dialing noise, that someone was trying to enter diplomacy with me (you have to actively click on them to call up the screen). Even then, half the time on the screen I wasn't sure people were getting my offers, or what I was really being offered. You don't get that nice graphical picture of the guy saying "I offer you this ..." like you do with a computer AI. Maybe it was just me.


I never understood that, I kept hearing the phone noise, but I had no clue what it meant or what to do. It would say someone was trying to connect to me, but I never understood what to do. So yeah, I never noticed it. You just click on their name in the bottom right when that happens?


I'd cry going with 30 second turns, especially during a war on multiple fronts. I like to look at the stats though also, and check everything out. 2 Minutes was too much, I think one minute would work, maybe even 45 seconds.

I want a team game next multi, or us to work a little more on alliances and ganging up against or with one another, I think that'd be really fun.

[spleen1015]

Woodsman II is awesome. +30% forest and jungle defense and double movement in forest and jungle terrain. This is for recon, melee and gunpodwer units.

It is very helpful to have a Warrior with 2 movement through the jungle and Forest.

[Passacaglia]

Woodsman II does rule. Does it build on Woodsman I? Woodsman I gives +20%, and Woodsman II gives 30% on top of Woodsman I? Or do they just combine to 50%?

[Godzilla Blitz]

I was reading that setting a turn limit (100-150 turns) for the game works pretty well to get things under control in multiplayer. Whoever leads at that point wins.

[jbmagic]

Earth Map available.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=134245

[Passacaglia]

Is there a crusades scenario in the works? That seems like it would work really well with the religion aspect of the game.

[Bonegavel]

I was reading that setting a turn limit (100-150 turns) for the game works pretty well to get things under control in multiplayer. Whoever leads at that point wins.
I have to agree. I just exited a Blitz game (30 second rounds) and I clocked over 2 hours before the other player dropped and I wasn't even close to being done beating on him even though I was at 2,000 and some to his 1300.

That game would've likely gone on for another hour or 2 thanks to the toughness of cities.

Turn limits would be very welcomed.

[TroyF]

What do you guys do with your great people? I try and set the engineers to help finish a wonder. I'll usually use the 4000 point culture bomb on a city I have close a border with an artist.

I'll build a lab with the scientist and I've yet to figure out what to do with the prophets. Should I be handling any of this differently?

[ISiddiqui]

What do you guys do with your great people?Depends on what stage I am with a game. Sometimes I'll use their special option (culture bomb, lab, special religion building if I have a Holy City). Sometimes I'll make them into a SUPER Specialist (which is very useful at times). Very rarely will I sacrifice them for a tech (though maybe if I'm trying to beat another Civ to a Wonder).

[Eaglesfan27]

I agree with Isiddiqui, it depends upon on what stage I'm in. With my great prophets I usually build the special building in the city that founded a religion. Later in the game, I like saving up 2 special people to trigger my first golden age.

[moriarty]

Couple of random things that irk me with the interface.

When you mouse over the buttons at the top right (advisors) the text indicating what they do appears in the lower left. Seems like it should appear near the button so you don't have to look on the opposite end of the screen. Pretty minor as I'm sure you'll memorize the shortcuts but still weird.

When I have multiple cities produce items on the same turn, the "what do you want to produce next" screen pops up. If I hit examine city, then enter after examining ... it jumps to the next city. I would think that it would exit back to the screen where I can decide what to produce (I know I'm explaining this poorly). I mean you should be able to examine city and then set production, not examine city jump to next city, have to click back on first city and set production. Anyone else having this issue, or am I just hitting the wrong keys?

[Eilim]

Ahh, he was #2 in my game last night (I was #1) and I thought best to knock off my toughest, closest rival, so it might work out ok. NFL trumps this game today, but I can't wait to play some more tonight.


Ok, so now I have to know. Did you end up crushing the infidel nation of Saladin and make him kiss your feet before putting his head on a pike?

[TroyF]

Did anyone else laugh when they saw the pic of Al Gore with the Internet wonder?

[moriarty]

Did anyone else laugh when they saw the pic of Al Gore with the Internet wonder?

Seriously?

[Buccaneer]

I finally got around to play a test game last night - just to get used to the UI, find all of the information I need to keep track of to make decisions and more importantly, to try out most of the major elements of the game and their interactions. A few comments:

As I like to do, I played on the semi-geographically-correct World map. The problem was that this map is Huge and it's somewhat of a dog on my system (I'm right at Recommended Specs). I can open up most of the Advisors quickly, pan around of but things like the world map and turning on the grids takes a long time. I have the graphics on High but froze animation but still need to improve performance.

One minor quibble. I strongly prefer to play with a minimized interface (Crtl-I) but every time I switch screens (like go to City Screen), it always bring up the full interface when going back to the Main Screen.

I will be looking for a mod to make the Food/Prod/Gold icons stand out much more prominently. I'm thinking they need to be red and flourescent to make them pop out from the background.

I was mostly concerned with mechanics and gathering/logging information. What struck me was the variety of strategies. I didn't have one when I played this test game and I can see where many of the turns would require some thought as to the mini-decisions. In Civ2, you either went to war early and often or you didn't. In Civ4, one really must know generally of what the major goals are so you can make the appropriate decisions (techs, buildings, units, trading, culture, health, happiness, growth, improvements, civics, religions, explorations, etc.) along the way.

I am amazed as to how polished and complete this game is right out of the back. Not even Civ2 was this playable. It's going to be a good one.

Btw, my goal is to do a real game soon - once I get an understanding of the strategies. But my next goal is to play the American Revolution scenario. I am a huge fan of this time period but there have almost no strategic-level games developed. About the only ones were the two Civ2 scenarios. Both ended up being way too easy that I had to modify the game myself to make them fun to play. I was absolutely shocked and thrilled to see it included as one of the first scenarios in Civ2 and even though I haven't read anything about, I am very much looking forward to this.

[Ben E Lou]

Did anyone else laugh when they saw the pic of Al Gore with the Internet wonder?Yeah, that one cracked me up.

[Butter]

OK, so I bought a 256 MB GeForce video card and another stick of RAM... yep, $125 total just for this game.

I have to say so far, I am not being disappointed. The new video card helps it run pretty smoothly... I just have to convince my wife to play some hot seat MP with me, instead of just both of us playing as 1 Civ in 1 single game.

I have used 2 Great Artists to produce a great work in one city that helped me take over a newly created nearby city... then used a Great Economist (?) to create a Special Trade Mission to another city that more than doubled my gold on hand. These things are great additions to the game, as is religion.

[ISiddiqui]

But my next goal is to play the American Revolution scenario.
Yeah, that sounds good fun. I'm playing out this Chieftain game (I always play one game on Chieftain so I know what is new) and then either a Noble game from start or a scenario.

I think it would be fun if the leaderheads were different in the Revolution scenario (Washington for US, of course, but George III for Britain), but I doubt that'll be the case.

Can't wait to try out some of the lesser known civs, like Mali!

[Eilim]

I was mostly concerned with mechanics and gathering/logging information. What struck me was the variety of strategies. I didn't have one when I played this test game and I can see where many of the turns would require some thought as to the mini-decisions. In Civ2, you either went to war early and often or you didn't. In Civ4, one really must know generally of what the major goals are so you can make the appropriate decisions (techs, buildings, units, trading, culture, health, happiness, growth, improvements, civics, religions, explorations, etc.) along the way.


I think this is what I love the most about the game. Besides there being many strategies, you almost never can go in with a cookie cutter strategy for the win. Even if you always stick with the same civ, you'll almost always have to adjust your tech decisions and build orders based on the resources of your starting position. This is brought so much to the forefront with having to research the techs for your workers skills.

Theres just so many different choices you have to make repeatedly throughout the game that are influenced by your terrain, resources, location and tech level of AI you have to keep on your toes. Throw in the fact the game seems (at this point of my amount of play) to be well balanced that your never in a hopeless situation based on variables out of your control.. it just makes for an excellent strategic game.

The hook for me is this.. I've played almost every spare moment since I got the game on release day. In all this time, I've yet to win a game. While some (mainly family) view this as some absurd exercise in futility.. The fact that I still just keep going back to play without even an inkling of frustration tells me they did something right with this one.

(Note: I've now come in second place points wise 4 or 5 times on noble... I'm going to win soon, I can feel it.. Although I think I said that after my second game too. :rolleyes: )

[Galaxy]

I tried to logged on Gamespy with my account, but keeps telling me "failed to create a login", or something.

[GrantDawg]

So, I picked it up today. Loading as I type.

[moriarty]

I tried to logged on Gamespy with my account, but keeps telling me "failed to create a login", or something.

I think you have to create a new 'special' login through the game itself. From the Civ4 screen click multiplayer and register for a new login.

[Galaxy]

I think you have to create a new 'special' login through the game itself. From the Civ4 screen click multiplayer and register for a new login.

Hmmm....Still not working. Failed to login I am getting.

[Eaglesfan27]

Ok, so now I have to know. Did you end up crushing the infidel nation of Saladin and make him kiss your feet before putting his head on a pike?
Wife was home, so I didn't get to play too much last night, but I'm winning the war. I'm about to play for an hour now before work too. At least at this early point, this game really is the most addictive, fun game I've played besides FM05 in the last year or two at least.

[Galaxy]

We need to get a FOFC game goin....:D