NFL Week 9 Discussion

[Raiders Army]

Can't believe it's less than two hours to gametime and no thread.

Mark it down: Raiders squeak by over Chiefs. Why? No Priest Holmes, Willie Roaf, or starting CBs. Raiders are rolling now with Jerry Porter getting in the game last week and Lamont Jordan running. I think Gonzalez will get shut down because they need him in there to block (like the first few weeks of the season) against Derrick Burgess and Warren Sapp.

On the other hand, look for Courtney Anderson to have a big game this week for the Raiders.

That is all.

[cthomer5000]

Jets will get killed, unfortunately.

[Passacaglia]

Found this nugget while setting my fantasy lineup:

Minnesota Vikings players have encouraged their teammates to boycott a local television station, following a report Thursday, Nov. 3 related to the infamous boat party, according to the Associated Press. After receiving a tip that OT Bryant McKinnie and RB Mewelde Moore were dumping their trash at a construction site near their homes in Eden Prairie, Minn., KSTP reporter Kristin Stinar rummaged through the dumpster and found trash belonging to McKinnie. Party remnants were found, including a list of female names and a list of flight times written on Vikings' team stationery. Both players were confronted at their house by the television station, and McKinnie claimed the items were from a gathering at his house two weeks prior to the infamous cruise. Moore said he ran out of room in his own trash bin. The Vikings are upset about an invasion of privacy, but KSTP news director Chris Berg stands by the story. "It was fair, accurate, and balanced," he said.

[GrantDawg]

Found this nugget while setting my fantasy lineup:

Rummaging through dumpsters? Classy news organization there.

[Passacaglia]

Still, I like:

Moore said he ran out of room in his own trash bin.

So he tosses it in a construction site? Or does this area have some draconian rules about how much trash you can put on your curb? I also found it odd that both guys ended up using the SAME construction site.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Rummaging through dumpsters? Classy news organization there.
It's journalism, my friend. If the story takes you to a dumpster, you rummage.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Speaking of the Vikings, they play the Lions today...

Speaking of the Lions, Charles Rogers (former SECOND PICK OVER ALL) finally returned from his 4 week suspension for smoking doobies, only to be made inactive in favor of undrafted practice squadder Glen "Barbara" Martinez. Yes, that Glen Martinez.

[JeeberD]

Yes, that Glen Martinez.

Who?

[Lorena]

Can't believe it's less than two hours to gametime and no thread.

Mark it down: Raiders squeak by over Chiefs. Why? No Priest Holmes, Willie Roaf, or starting CBs. Raiders are rolling now with Jerry Porter getting in the game last week and Lamont Jordan running. I think Gonzalez will get shut down because they need him in there to block (like the first few weeks of the season) against Derrick Burgess and Warren Sapp.

On the other hand, look for Courtney Anderson to have a big game this week for the Raiders.

That is all.

This is one of my favorite rivalries to watch, the games are always exciting and regardless of how awful either team is, we're in for some good games.

I agree with you, I chose the Raidas to win by 1 point: 21-20. Too bad it wont be televised locally.

[Lorena]

This is one of my favorite rivalries to watch, the games are always exciting and regardless of how awful either team is, we're in for some good games.

I agree with you, I chose the Raidas to win by 1 point: 21-20. Too bad it wont be televised locally.

Wait a sec... I'm not calling either team awful, I'm just saying that anytime ANY of the AFC West teams play each other they're always fun. I've seen some epic battles between first place vs. last place.

That is all.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Who?
I give you...

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=640 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=3>http://www.detroitlions.com/photos/athletes/Martinez_Glenn1.jpg</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center width=100>http://www.detroitlions.com/photos/athletes/Martinez_Glen.jpg</TD><TD vAlign=top width=187><TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=0 width=187 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=plbio width=110>College</TD><TD class=plbio width=94>Saginaw Valley State</TD></TR><TR><TD class=plbio width=110>NFL Experience</TD><TD class=plbio width=94>1</TD></TR><TR><TD class=plbio width=110>Height</TD><TD class=plbio width=94>6-2</TD></TR><TR><TD class=plbio width=110>Weight</TD><TD class=plbio width=94>183</TD></TR><TR><TD class=plbio width=110>Birthdate</TD><TD class=plbio width=94>November 30, 1981</TD></TR><TR><TD class=plbio width=110>Hometown</TD><TD class=plbio width=94>Tampa, FL</TD></TR><TR><TD class=plbio width=110>How Acquired</TD><TD class=plbio width=94>Free Agent</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=playerpagelinks align=middle width=284 bgColor=#000000 colSpan=2 height=25>Career Stats (http://www.detroitlions.com/bio.cfm?bio_id=261&section_id=15&top=0&level=2&season=7&stats=1)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=181 bgColor=#333333 ?><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=178 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=plboxhead vAlign=top align=left width="100%" bgColor=#000000>Career Highlights</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.detroitlions.com/images/spacer.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD class=plboxtext width=181></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD width=165 bgColor=#000000>http://www.detroitlions.com/photos/athletes/ACF562.jpg</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width=640 align=center bgColor=#dddddd border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=body2 vAlign=top></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[sovereignstar]

Yes, the Vikes got Curt Menefee working their game today!

[Honolulu_Blue]

So endeth the Lions' season...

Pathetic.

[mckerney]

I heart Joey Harrington

[DeToxRox]

Steve Mariucci has to go.

He's absolutely awful.

This team is coming unglued, they hate one another, he's lost control.

They need a Tom Coughlin type desperatley, because this is a joke.

[mckerney]

I heart Joey Harrington

And Nate Burleson.

[DeToxRox]

Scotty Vines is the only Lions WR who gives a damn. I love him. I hope he sticks around, he's earned it.

[ISiddiqui]

Vick is passing really well so far today. 15 for 19 and around 173 yards and 1 TD.

[Buccaneer]

Vick is passing really well so far today. 15 for 19 and around 173 yards and 1 TD.
Yep.

[SackAttack]

Vick is passing really well so far today. 15 for 19 and around 173 yards and 1 TD.

Wonder if Marcus is taking notes.

[ISiddiqui]

How did Finneran miss that catch?! It hit him in the hands!

[JonInMiddleGA]

How did Finneran miss that catch?! It hit him in the hands!

Probably the tremendous shock of a ball thrown to his hands caught him off-guard ;)

[General Mike]

The jets stink. They have to take a QB in the 1st round next year. That idiot Bradway will probably trade their 1st rounder for a DLineman tho.

[DeToxRox]

24-14 Vikings.

Lions are dominating this half. 14:55 left, still a chance.

[Travis]

Wow, give Graham a blood test. NFL.com has him down as hitting a 93 yard field goal.

I'm guessing somebody there made a bit of a boo-boo putting that into the live update.

Edit Note: Meant to say NFL.com instead of Yahoo. Yahoo doesn't have anything of the sort on their update, yet anyways.

[gottimd]

Wow, give Graham a blood test. Yahoo has him down as hitting a 93 yard field goal.

I'm guessing somebody there made a bit of a boo-boo putting that into the live update.
Sportsline is on the same drug as they show Cincy up 17-6

[GrantDawg]

Bad idea, not taking the points on the road by the Falcons. Make it a two possesion game.

[Rizon]

Game over in KC, Faiders lose. Still some time left in the 4th for them to rack up 3 or 4 penalties and lose by more.

Season over for Tampa Bay, better luck next season.

[ISiddiqui]

Ugh... this Falcons defense cannot handle the runninng game of Miami at this point... and shockingly... NO Pressure on Ferotte the entire game... wow.

[Crapshoot]

And the interception just gave Atlanta the game.

[ISiddiqui]

INTERCEPTION by the Falcons! They redeem themselves at the end of the drive!

[ISiddiqui]

I'm just wondering why the Fins didn't call a run. The Falcons couldn't stop the run if they knew the exact play called.

[ISiddiqui]

Wooot!

3rd and 6 and they go with the run... ballsy, and it works.

[ISiddiqui]

WOWOW... this San Diego - Jets game is exciting. Fumble by Brees, Jets in position to win it.

[Dutch]

Season over for Tampa Bay, better luck next season.
Who says you need a QB to win in the NFL????

Oh wait...you do need a QB to win the NFL.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. :(

[jbmagic]

damn the raiders. a big chance to get back in the playoff race

a good chance to take a game lead from k.c and SD

because it looks like SD is going to lose to the jets too

[Lorena]

Goddamit, once again, the Chargers' defense fucks it up in the 4th quarter. It's too bad I can't see what's happening. If the Jets score I'm gonna lose it. :mad:

[Lorena]

My eyes are glued to the updates on NFL.com.... THIS IS KILLING ME!!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

4-3-SD 3 (:59) (Run formation) B.Bollinger pass incomplete to J.McCareins (Q.Jammer).

[Schmidty]

Mooch is the worst coach I have ever seen, and the West Coast Farce should die a long overdue death.

If Mooch isn't fired soon, the city of Detroit will look like Paris within a few weeks.

[fantastic flying froggies]

The Jets blew it...

[Lorena]

Alright, I was blowing air outta my ass... I'm glad the defense stepped it up. But what the hell happened that the Jets were able to score 13 in the 4th quarter? I'm assuming it's bad defense, as the Chargers have blown many games in the 4th quarter.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Moss makes his 1st catch of the day...and makes it count!

[Ramzavail]

Alright, I was blowing air outta my ass... I'm glad the defense stepped it up. But what the hell happened that the Jets were able to score 13 in the 4th quarter? I'm assuming it's bad defense, as the Chargers have blown many games in the 4th quarter.

Penalties attributed to it as well.

Bollinger stepped it up today...Coles got mauled in the end zone on one of the plays, no call, Chargers win.

[jbmagic]

Alright, I was blowing air outta my ass... I'm glad the defense stepped it up. But what the hell happened that the Jets were able to score 13 in the 4th quarter? I'm assuming it's bad defense, as the Chargers have blown many games in the 4th quarter.


because they hit Brees and he fumble in his redzone. it gabe the jets a chance to win.

[Icy]

Again and again the same, every Fu****g week, 3rd and short and Miami coach decides to pass when the only working game is the run until then, then Frerotte throws and int and game over. Search for the past weeks reviews from me, you can read exactly the same. Linehan can't realize that this aren't the Vickings, that Frerotte is not Culpepper and that he has two awesome RB's in Miami, so run the ball!!!

Now even the head coach Saban thinks like me and in the press release he said that he is also wondering why the dolphins threw instead of running. I guess this is going to be a bad week betwen him and Linehan...

[JonInMiddleGA]

But what the hell happened that the Jets were able to score 13 in the 4th quarter?

-- Penalties (12-124) didn't make life easier for the Bolts
-- Bollinger came in hot, led a 75 yd drive for the 1st of the late scores
-- SD got a FG, but Jets get a long KOR to start a drive at the SD 48 (and eventually get the TD)
-- Brees was sacked & fumbled inside his own 40 to set up the dramatic finish.

[jbmagic]

Damn the Raiders.

i cant beleive this

[sterlingice]

Wow!

SI

[kcchief19]

Dick Vermeil shows the largest set of balls today. If that fails, this town falls into a deep depression.

[sterlingice]

Even if they didn't make it, it was still the right call. One yard now or a coin flip that gives whoever wins a 2/3rds chance at winning.

EDIT: Particularly with a team where the offense is still the better side of the ball.

SI

[Lorena]

Thanks JonInMiddleGA, JB, and Ramz for the updates.

I can't believe KC came back to beat the Raidas, I had chosen the Raidas to win 20-21 and they messed me up.... DAMN THEM!!

[Rizon]

Again and again the same, every Fu****g week, 3rd and short and Miami coach decides to pass when the only working game is the run until then, then Feeley / Frerotte / Fiedler throws and int and game over.

Bueller ...

Bueller ...

Bueller ...

[TroyF]

The Raiders are what thye've always been. Stay close to em. Wait until they make a fatal mistake. The gameplan hasn't changed in a decade now.

I'm not so sure that was a ballsy call by Vermeil there. Yeah, the "if they miss this. . ." thing comes into play, but look at the factors in the decision:

1) KC is averaging 4.8 yards a carry on the day.
2) The KC defense is in the middle of yet another monumental collapse.

I think it comes down to this: If the game goes into OT and the Raiders win the coin toss, the game is over. So the Chiefs odds of victory is 50% at best. Running it in from the one with the Raiders defensive line head up against your offensive line? 80% Minimum. I take the Chiefs 98 out of a 100 times in that situation.

I don't think it was as much gutsy as it was smart.

Now, of course, if this is Billy B., we read about his genius for a month. ;)

[GrantDawg]

Again and again the same, every Fu****g week, 3rd and short and Miami coach decides to pass when the only working game is the run until then, then Frerotte throws and int and game over. Search for the past weeks reviews from me, you can read exactly the same. Linehan can't realize that this aren't the Vickings, that Frerotte is not Culpepper and that he has two awesome RB's in Miami, so run the ball!!!

Now even the head coach Saban thinks like me and in the press release he said that he is also wondering why the dolphins threw instead of running. I guess this is going to be a bad week betwen him and Linehan...
They need to take a page from the Falcons on this. Rotate the backs in with a good lead blocker. Run, run, and run, and then play-action pass with the line is stacked. Really simple football.

[TroyF]

Sterling beat me to it, damnit.

[kcchief19]

I don't disagree that going for it was the right call; I think that it was impressive to run it knowing that if it fails the game is over. Going for it and throwing a quick slant that leaves you time to kick a field goal was a much "safer" call.

The surprising part to me is that while the Chiefs have had a high-octane offense in recent years, Vermeil has been criticized locally for playing too conservative in crunch time. That clearly wasn't the case during the two-minute drill.

[sterlingice]

The one thing about, that Troy, is that there are injuries to consider. Willie Roaf didn't play again and that's a huge factor in a situation like that as was a bit of Johnson instead of TD maker Holmes. Thankfully, for the Chiefs, they run out one of the two or three best blocking FBs in the league and he made that hole there.

SI

[TroyF]

The one thing about, that Troy, is that there are injuries to consider. Willie Roaf didn't play again and that's a huge factor in a situation like that as was a bit of Johnson instead of TD maker Holmes. Thankfully, for the Chiefs, they run out one of the two or three best blocking FBs in the league and he made that hole there.

SI


I understand the injuries. . . but KC averaged 4.8 yards a carry in TODAY's game. The Raiders hadn't stopped the run consistently all day. KC has exactly one third and short prior to the final play of the game, that was a 3rd and 2 that LJ ran in for a 15 yard TD.

To me the SAFE play was to run up the middle here. I can't imagine Dick doing anything different on that play. I'm not criticizing him, he did exactly what he's paid to do there. He made the right call. If they'd have missed it, it was still the right call, but people would have crucified him so I guess it's ok he gets some props. . . but for my money it was the only call he could make there.

[yabanci]

4-3-SD 3 (:59) (Run formation) B.Bollinger pass incomplete to J.McCareins (Q.Jammer).

I wish the FOF game logs gave this little piece of information (who had coverage). The game tracks the stat but doesn't show it in the game log.

[Cringer]

Another entertaining Packer game we have going here.

[SackAttack]

Polamalu was just unconscious those last few plays against the Packers, culminating in that fumble return. Amazing.

[Karlifornia]

Brandon Lloyd made a mind-blowing catch, but it was wiped out by a holding penalty :mad:

[SackAttack]

How 'bout that catch by Shockey?

[Cringer]

Samkon Gado with his first ever NFL TD for the Packers, very nice.

For those not watching this game, hell I have only seen half of it so far, Gado was signed two weeks ago and this is his first game. He is an undrafted rookie who went to Liberty Univ. And no he was not the starter there, he was the 3rd stringer. How he got on the Packers I don't know but I am guessing the other two guys got iinjured like all the Packer RBs.

[Raiders Army]

I can't believe the Raiders lost.

[Easy Mac]

I can't believe its not butter

[Solecismic]

Samkon Gado with his first ever NFL TD for the Packers, very nice.

For those not watching this game, hell I have only seen half of it so far, Gado was signed two weeks ago and this is his first game. He is an undrafted rookie who went to Liberty Univ. And no he was not the starter there, he was the 3rd stringer. How he got on the Packers I don't know but I am guessing the other two guys got iinjured like all the Packer RBs.

And yet Maurice Clarett is still out there somewhere. All the talent in the world, but he just won't put in the work.

I'm very impressed with the heart the 1-6 Packers are showing. I don't know if they can come back against the Steelers, but this will help them down the road.

[Easy Mac]

Pack should have kicked a field goal.

[Rizon]

The Raiders are what thye've always been. Stay close to em. Wait until they make a fatal mistake. The gameplan hasn't since 1986.



Not to nitpick, but I fixed this for you. :D

[st.cronin]

Cedric Benson has officially arrived. He looks good.

[Buccaneer]

I went upstairs just long enough to see Favre overthrow a pass. Imagine that.

[Easy Mac]

again they ignore the FG option. I don't care what the wind is (a slight weind in their face). Taking 1 shot at a FG is better than failing in 2 attempts for a 1st down. Now they can't do anything.

[Cringer]

And yet Maurice Clarett is still out there somewhere. All the talent in the world, but he just won't put in the work.

I'm very impressed with the heart the 1-6 Packers are showing. I don't know if they can come back against the Steelers, but this will help them down the road.

I forgot about Clarett. With al these injuries to the Packers RB's I have never heard his name brought up once. lol.

And the Packers get that look of a football team from Clown University at the end. They have more blocking in back penalties of punt returns this year then the rest of the league combined. Every loss has been close this year too, that is what hurts the most. Just give up and get blown out please....thanks you.

[TroyF]

Not to nitpick, but I fixed this for you. :D


Now, now. They had a couple of really good years mixed in there.

They always seem to make the wrong play at the wrong time. It's just an amazing gift. The sad thing? They always seem to play one game a year against the Broncos where they play smart and win. We wait for them to make the mistake and they don't make it. Just kills me.

The Raiders always make you think they are better than they really are. They stick around in games they have no business in. Every year after three or four weeks someone makes the inevitable "They are the sleeper team, they are better than their record indicates" comment. This game ends it for them this year. They may beat Denver next week (see above comment) and they may take a few games. But they aren't leapfrogging three teams above .500 in the second half of the season without tiebreakers. Just isn't happening.

As a side note, did anyone else catch Sapp just getting wiped out on that final play?

[Rizon]

Now, now. They had a couple of really good years mixed in there.

They always seem to make the wrong play at the wrong time. It's just an amazing gift. The sad thing? They always seem to play one game a year against the Broncos where they play smart and win. We wait for them to make the mistake and they don't make it. Just kills me.

The Raiders always make you think they are better than they really are. They stick around in games they have no business in. Every year after three or four weeks someone makes the inevitable "They are the sleeper team, they are better than their record indicates" comment. This game ends it for them this year. They may beat Denver next week (see above comment) and they may take a few games. But they aren't leapfrogging three teams above .500 in the second half of the season without tiebreakers. Just isn't happening.

As a side note, did anyone else catch Sapp just getting wiped out on that final play?

If they'd just leave and go back to LA, I'd get more than just 2 televised games each week (SF / Chokeland)!! And I heard the "they are way better than their 1-4 record, probably the best 1-4 team in the NFL" comment this year. Season over, time to party for us Faider Haters.

Course, living in Chokeland Faidersland, I have to listen about how the refs screwed them week in and week out.

I have to remind the Faidersfans that their team is only averaging an 8.3 - 7.7 season since their last superbowl win and are 80-87 since coming back to Chokeland.

PS: I'm not a Whiners fan either. I was a fan of the Faiders from the 70s until they backstabbed me as a child in 1982 and forced me to find another team to like, Miami, and I have suffered ever since.

[Eaglesfan27]

Nice to see McNabb and the Eagles looking good early (ok VERY early) in the game.

[stevew]

Another entertaining Packer game we have going here.
Admittedly I'm on the other side of the aisle as you on this game, but, damn, this was like the worst game I think I've seen in awhile. I spent much of the second half waiting for Batch to throw a td INT to a GB corner, thankfully it didnt happen. That rookie RB looked fairly solid, especially since his line ain't all that good.

[dubb93]

OK, quick question. Assuming the Texans continue to play like the Texans and snag the 1st pick in the draft do they take Leinhart or stick with Carr? If they stick with Carr what do they do with the pick?

[TazFTW]

Stick with Carr and try to trade down to where you can still pick up the best O-lineman in the draft.

[Eaglesfan27]

Reggie Brown with a 56 year TD reception from McNabb!!!! :)

[st.cronin]

Stick with Carr and try to trade down to where you can still pick up the best O-lineman in the draft.

Honestly, it doesn't have to be the best o-lineman. Pretty much anybody will do.

[kingfc22]

Brandon Lloyd made a mind-blowing catch, but it was wiped out by a holding penalty :mad:
That play WAS the game. Still keeping pace with the top pick in the draft.

[sterlingice]

Honestly, it doesn't have to be the best o-lineman. Pretty much anybody will do.
Trade down for 5x 4th round draft picks and spend them on an entire offensive line ;)

SI

[st.cronin]

Trade down for 5x 4th round draft picks and spend them on an entire offensive line ;)

SI

Or, keep the first pick, draft Leinart, and teach him to play Left Tackle. I think he'd probably be ok.

[Eaglesfan27]

McNabb just made an excellent run for a few yards and is playing better than he has in weeks..

[st.cronin]

Seriously, did the Redskins come up with some genetic therapy to reverse-age Brunell? He looks 5-10 years younger.

[Solecismic]

Wow. Brain cramp for McNabb just cost them 3.

[Cringer]

Admittedly I'm on the other side of the aisle as you on this game, but, damn, this was like the worst game I think I've seen in awhile. I spent much of the second half waiting for Batch to throw a td INT to a GB corner, thankfully it didnt happen. That rookie RB looked fairly solid, especially since his line ain't all that good.

Actually I was saying hat pretty much tongue in cheek right after Favre was blindsided and fumbled, which was then returned for a TD.

Packer games actually are entertaining this year, but suck in the end for us Packer fans as they always blow it or fall short of a comeback. The Packers are 1-7 now and have actually outscored their opponents this year because of the New Orleans blow out and every other game being very close at the end. It's wacky.

You can see Favre just about ready to snap at times, like after Driver let a pass go right off his hands and bounce up into the air for an INT. Everything goes wrong for this team and it is pretty sad to see. (And when I say wrong, I don't mean just bad luck, I also mean like two false starts when you are at the 1 yard line to take you away from any chance at a TD)

[Rizon]

The league should ban the Eagles from running any plays with 2 minutes left to go in any half.

[st.cronin]

I would bet my car that Terrell Owens is openly rooting for the Redskins, wherever he is.

[sabotai]

Wow. Thrash almost made the mistake of the game. He's lucky his own guy got it back.

[Cringer]

I just saw my nomination for fan of the year.

Anyone else see the middle-eastern guy with his Washington jersey on with the matching maroon turbin? That guy is great, I have never seen a team colored turbin.

[ISiddiqui]

REDSKINS win!

On 4th and 4 with 1:25 left, McNabb throws an INT!

[JonInMiddleGA]

REDSKINS win!

On 4th and 4 with 1:25 left, McNabb throws an INT!

Woot.

[korme]

Chad Johnson gives up his body and makes the second best catch of the day (that goes to Laverneus Coles), and we are 7-2 and 2 wins away from having a winning season. :)

[kcchief19]

They always seem to make the wrong play at the wrong time. It's just an amazing gift. It's bizzarre. Aside from Rich Gannon bringing some common sense to the team for a couple of season, it's like the moment you put on the silver and black you turn your brain off. Jeff George was perfect for that team because he never thought. Amazing talent and arm, but no brain whatsoever. He gave the Chiefs a game once when he was going down for a sack and tried to throw a pass while going down and hit a linebacker square in the hands for a touchdown.

Collins puked away a drive today when he was going down for a sack and tried to throw a pass to Lamont Jordan. Only problem was that the defender was driving him in to the ground at an agle that cause the ball to go backward and short hop Joradan. There were lucky all that happened was the ball bounced out of down, but it killed any chance at a drive.

Another key play today was an interception when Collins overthrew his receiver by at least five yards. One of worst passes I've seen this season.

[cthomer5000]

Chad Johnson gives up his body and makes the second best catch of the day (that goes to Laverneus Coles), and we are 7-2 and 2 wins away from having a winning season. :)
I thought Plaxico Burress had the best catch of the day, did you see it?

[Swaggs]

How about poor Michael Vick? Is he serious about getting criticized?

I think he is one of the media's most adored players.

[ISiddiqui]

How about poor Michael Vick? Is he serious about getting criticized?

I think he is one of the media's most adored players.You ever read any internet forums discussing football? Or listen to talk radio discussing football? Vick gets more hate directed towards him than any other player out there. And it isn't just fans on forums or talk radio who are slamming him. Some of the pundits are as well.

[Swaggs]

You ever read any internet forums discussing football? Or listen to talk radio discussing football? Vick gets more hate directed towards him than any other player out there. And it isn't just fans on forums or talk radio who are slamming him. Some of the pundits are as well.

I don't buy it. Every starting NFL quarterback this side of Tom Brady gets criticized like hell every time they lose a game. Every city that gives a crap about football has a saying that, "the back-up QB is always the most popular player on the team."

Vick has been adored by the media since before he came to the NFL. He deserved it in college, but look at his career. He was the #1 overall pick in the draft, is a five-year veteran now, has been injury prone, and has a career passer rating of 75.3. That is in the range of Patrick Ramsey, Kyle Boller, and David Carr and those are not exactly guys that are getting commercials and shoe deals. Obviously, he brings more to the table than those guys with his legs, but if he played in a city like New York or Philadelphia, he would be on real thin ice.

I think it takes big stones for him to call out the media/public-at-large for criticizing him, when he gets a bigger free pass than nearly any other QB in the NFL. And, it takes even bigger balls to declare that he has proven himself as a pocket passer with one pretty good game against the Miami Dolphins. He should go out and play and be glad that he is a starting QB in the NFL.

[TroyF]

It's bizzarre. Aside from Rich Gannon bringing some common sense to the team for a couple of season, it's like the moment you put on the silver and black you turn your brain off. Jeff George was perfect for that team because he never thought. Amazing talent and arm, but no brain whatsoever. He gave the Chiefs a game once when he was going down for a sack and tried to throw a pass while going down and hit a linebacker square in the hands for a touchdown.

Collins puked away a drive today when he was going down for a sack and tried to throw a pass to Lamont Jordan. Only problem was that the defender was driving him in to the ground at an agle that cause the ball to go backward and short hop Joradan. There were lucky all that happened was the ball bounced out of down, but it killed any chance at a drive.

Another key play today was an interception when Collins overthrew his receiver by at least five yards. One of worst passes I've seen this season.


I think every team in this division has brain cramps that cost them from being as good as they could be. Denver could be 8-0 this year if they hadn't blown a lead and mailed in the Miami game. KC has watched a wide open window nearly close because they waited so long to fix the D.

I don't even know what's going on with the Chargers. This is beyond Marty this year. That team just plays really stupid football most of the time.

But despite all of that, the Raiders take the cake. Time and time again you see a stupid penalty, a braindead pass, a dropped pass. The thing that got me today was the play that took it to the one yard line. Playing the prevent is one thing, blowing a coverage where you aren't anywhere near the RB and have to pray that he trips over the chalk and falls is another.

That was special there. And as I said, I know what's happening next week. The Raiders are going to play smart for 60 minutes. They won't have any stupid penalties, no dropped passes and Collins will shred the Broncos. If not next week then in Denver in the rematch.

I hope Denver takes at least 2 of 3 (at Oak, NYJ, at DAL) before December 4.

That game is going to be huge.

[TroyF]

I don't buy it. Every starting NFL quarterback this side of Tom Brady gets criticized like hell every time they lose a game. Every city that gives a crap about football has a saying that, "the back-up QB is always the most popular player on the team."

Vick has been adored by the media since before he came to the NFL. He deserved it in college, but look at his career. He was the #1 overall pick in the draft, is a five-year veteran now, has been injury prone, and has a career passer rating of 75.3. That is in the range of Patrick Ramsey, Kyle Boller, and David Carr and those are not exactly guys that are getting commercials and shoe deals. Obviously, he brings more to the table than those guys with his legs, but if he played in a city like New York or Philadelphia, he would be on real thin ice.

I think it takes big stones for him to call out the media/public-at-large for criticizing him, when he gets a bigger free pass than nearly any other QB in the NFL. And, it takes even bigger balls to declare that he has proven himself as a pocket passer with one pretty good game against the Miami Dolphins. He should go out and play and be glad that he is a starting QB in the NFL.


That's just it, Vick may have a passer rating in the range of a Carr, Ramsey, Boller or other guys. And every QB in the league does get criticized after losses.

The two things I think people are missing the boat with Vick on are:

1) Not bothering to take into account he does win. He's won a bunch. He's won big games. While all QB's get criticized for losses, Vick consistently gets criticized for wins.

2) What he means psychologicly to that football team. They are a different team when he's not playing. No matter what the critics say, the team seems to be behind him. That's leadership folks. And it's something you can't put into words.

The guy reminds me a little of John Elway. Elway didn't have high passer rating early on either. (hell, he didn't have them until late). While Elway never really had a strong running game, he found ways to win games early in his career, despite less than glamerous statistics.

Vick is different in that he has a strong running game behind him, but lets not forget that he's a big part of that running game too. The thing is, no matter what people think of him, he wins. I hear people talk about the Falcons and hear things like "that team had no business being there. . . " or "that's the worst 6-2 team I've ever seen"

It's like the opposite of the Raiders. They just keep winning. Well, like it or not, barring a serious injury, he's gonna keep winning. He has regressed as a passer and I'm not sure if he'll ever be as good as he was early on. But despite that, he's going to be in more NFC title games and he'll likely just piss some people off and win a few of em before it's over.

[Swaggs]

That's just it, Vick may have a passer rating in the range of a Carr, Ramsey, Boller or other guys. And every QB in the league does get criticized after losses.

The two things I think people are missing the boat with Vick on are:

1) Not bothering to take into account he does win. He's won a bunch. He's won big games. While all QB's get criticized for losses, Vick consistently gets criticized for wins.

2) What he means psychologicly to that football team. They are a different team when he's not playing. No matter what the critics say, the team seems to be behind him. That's leadership folks. And it's something you can't put into words.

The guy reminds me a little of John Elway. Elway didn't have high passer rating early on either. (hell, he didn't have them until late). While Elway never really had a strong running game, he found ways to win games early in his career, despite less than glamerous statistics.

Vick is different in that he has a strong running game behind him, but lets not forget that he's a big part of that running game too. The thing is, no matter what people think of him, he wins. I hear people talk about the Falcons and hear things like "that team had no business being there. . . " or "that's the worst 6-2 team I've ever seen"

It's like the opposite of the Raiders. They just keep winning. Well, like it or not, barring a serious injury, he's gonna keep winning. He has regressed as a passer and I'm not sure if he'll ever be as good as he was early on. But despite that, he's going to be in more NFC title games and he'll likely just piss some people off and win a few of em before it's over.

I don't have a big problem with anything you are saying. I just disagree with the timing and content of his little spiel today. Make that type of declaration after you win the Super Bowl or win your division. Right now, the Falcons are 6-2, but they have not beaten a team over .500 and have lost the only two versus teams with winning records.

To me, he did not get "over the hump" by beating the Miami Dolphins today (they have played .250 ball over the past two seasons), so the timing for silencing his "critics" just doesn't sit well with me. Yes, he is a solid, NFL QB-- probably somewhere in the top 10 in the league--but I believe that as far as the hype, endorsements, and coverage he gets for his performance/success, salary, and draft status, he is nowhere among the most criticized players in the league.

The devil's advocate in me wants to say that an argument can be made that the Falcons are simply a good team, with a good defense and running game, and perhaps a more efficient quarterback would lead the team to greater things, but I'm willing to give Vick the benefit of the doubt due to his youth. I have always thought he was a pretty good, but not great, quarterback and enjoy watching him play.

Bottom line: I don't follow the Falcons closely, but do watch and read more than my fair share about the NFL and I see a lot more positive coverage of Vick than negative. Him opening his mouth, the way he did today, rubs me the wrong way. When you win the Super Bowl, or even make the Super Bowl, you can call out your critics and tell them that they were wrong. When you move to 6-2 and beat the Miami Dolphins by 7 points, get ready for your next game and count your fat paycheck.

[Ragone]

It's bizzarre. Aside from Rich Gannon bringing some common sense to the team for a couple of season, it's like the moment you put on the silver and black you turn your brain off. Jeff George was perfect for that team because he never thought. Amazing talent and arm, but no brain whatsoever. He gave the Chiefs a game once when he was going down for a sack and tried to throw a pass while going down and hit a linebacker square in the hands for a touchdown.

Collins puked away a drive today when he was going down for a sack and tried to throw a pass to Lamont Jordan. Only problem was that the defender was driving him in to the ground at an agle that cause the ball to go backward and short hop Joradan. There were lucky all that happened was the ball bounced out of down, but it killed any chance at a drive.

Another key play today was an interception when Collins overthrew his receiver by at least five yards. One of worst passes I've seen this season.

kcchief.. my favorite raider game giveaway was when tim brown ran into the ref on a crossing route and i think maslowski returned it for a td(one of the 3 games he played in his career i guess)

of course after the game.. tim brown blames the ref for being in his way

[Ksyrup]

What a crappy Sunday of football. I couldn't find one game of interest and kept flipping around through all the games. Just a bunch of blah games. The only one that looked good on paper (Carolina v. TB), everyone knew was a mismatch. Couple of decent endings, but not enough to make up for the 3 hours that preceded it. Luckily, this only happens once or twice a season.

[Northwood_DK]

Hopefully tonight’s game will make up for your crappy Sunday. This is one of the few times I cannot wait to get up at 3 in the night.

[wade moore]

I can't believe no one mentioned McNabb's fake-spike.. this will quickly be one of my favorite ever football moments... the Redskins don't buy it for a second and just put a great hit on him.. what a moronic play...

[Ksyrup]

Hopefully tonight’s game will make up for your crappy Sunday. This is one of the few times I cannot wait to get up at 3 in the night.Yeah, tonight should be good. I looked at the schedule in Sunday's paper and couldn't believe there wasn't one appealing matchup. It felt like a week 16 Sunday.

[Ksyrup]

I can't believe no one mentioned McNabb's fake-spike.. this will quickly be one of my favorite ever football moments... the Redskins don't buy it for a second and just put a great hit on him.. what a moronic play...
I can't believe, with 4 of them around him, one of them didn't grab him while the others took the ball from him. I've never understood why more guys don't go for the strip when they've got a completely oblivious ball carrier. That very likely could have been a TD the other way.

But yeah, talk about not being on the same page with your receivers. Dan Marino you're not, McNabb.

[stevew]

TO was right about McNabb.

[wade moore]

I can't believe, with 4 of them around him, one of them didn't grab him while the others took the ball from him. I've never understood why more guys don't go for the strip when they've got a completely oblivious ball carrier. That very likely could have been a TD the other way.

But yeah, talk about not being on the same page with your receivers. Dan Marino you're not, McNabb.
Agreed that probably more could have happened out of it,b ut if they go for the strip and he makes a play, I'm more pissed than if they just hit him and get nothing out of it.

It really seemed like McNabb was the only one that knew they were faking iit... certainly his linemen had no clue...

[ISiddiqui]

Bottom line: I don't follow the Falcons closely, but do watch and read more than my fair share about the NFL and I see a lot more positive coverage of Vick than negative.
Perhaps on the whole, Vick gets positive coverage, but the negative coverage of Vick has been just BRUTAL. When he gets criticized, he gets slammed, even when they win. Like Troy said, it's "this team has no business being here", but it's more like "Mike Vick has no business being in an NFC Title Game" (I did hear that one). People call him the most overrated player in the history of the NFL. They take shots at him not just when they lose, but frequently when they win.

I think that sort of abuse makes you bristle after a while. Vick has probably got to be thinking what else can he do? He may only pass for 130 yards, but if he runs for over 50 and the team wins, what's he supposed to do? A win isn't good enough, unless its a blow out? I'm sure he's pissed by that notion that plenty of sportswriters and pundits articulate.

[flere-imsaho]

I think this is a simple case of trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Let's start with this: fact is that Vick's been hyped perhaps more than any other playing in the NFL since he's come into the league. For Vick, personally, that's both good and bad.

Good: Because he's been so hyped, he's made a buttload off of endorsement deals.

Bad: Because the media have made him out to be some sort of superlative player, they expect nothing but perfection from him. When he doesn't deliver (even when he wins), they're disappointed.

[GrantDawg]

I would say he is a super-laxative player. He sure can run.