The Office - Tonight

[Crapshoot]

"Dont sleep with you boss" - Is that referring to you boning Jan ?

Wow. I havent laughed that loud all week.

[QuikSand]

You do have coffee breath, by the way.

[timmynausea]

I noticed that tonight's episode was directed by Paul Feig, the creator of Freaks and Geeks, which was one of my favorite shows. Looking it up, this is the third episode he has directed this season.

[Dr. Sak]

This show gets better each week.

[QuikSand]

It's a pleasant surprise - tough to imagine that the American knock-off could live up to the original or even get past its shadow, but this show has taken on a life of its own and I actually look forward to it.

[Philliesfan980]

I don't see how this isn't one of the better ranked shows on TV. If you work in an office, its a must watch. Great great show. I really hope that it stays on a long time.

[Honolulu_Blue]

It's a pleasant surprise - tough to imagine that the American knock-off could live up to the original or even get past its shadow, but this show has taken on a life of its own and I actually look forward to it.
I agree. I just caught the last 15 minutes of this episode and it's the first 15 minutes of the show I've seen. It was great. I think it will have to be added to the old "season pass". Should be simple enough since we already record "My Name Is Earl" which is genius.

[mauchow]

I tried getting my fiance hooked up to Earl and Office, but she just can't do it for whatever reason...... Oh, well. Doesn't stop me from watching the two great shows.

[Philliesfan980]

So how is it doing in the ratings? (if anyone knows). I heard that the show was on thin ice at one point, hopefully it's doing better now and they don't have to do a "film 10 episodes and see how it goes" routine.

[Easy Mac]

It consistenly the lowest rated Tuesday show, that or Bones.

[Philliesfan980]

What a shame, does anyone know why?

[Honolulu_Blue]

It consistenly the lowest rated Tuesday show, that or Bones.
That's odd. I thought Earl was doing quite well which, I assumed, would mean the Office would be as well given Earl would be a strong lead in.

[Philliesfan980]

If the Office gets canned for another 1) "Friends" clone, or 2) The Biggest Loser - 500 LB edition, I might never watch NBC again.

[jbmagic]

there thinking of moving Earl to Thursday night because it doing well so far.

[Easy Mac]

great move, move it against survivor and the oc. nbc needs to give up on thursday and concentrate on building tuesday

[stevew]

Its nice that there are some funny shows on TV right now, would be a major shame if they get shitcanned for some lame ass reality programming.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I just find it odd. I mean, if the audience is watching Earl, where do they go when it's done? They'd be unlikely to jump to the last 1/2 hour of House or some other hour long show.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Its nice that there are some funny shows on TV right now, would be a major shame if they get shitcanned for some lame ass reality programming.
Amen to that.

[stevew]

I just find it odd. I mean, if the audience is watching Earl, where do they go when it's done? They'd be unlikely to jump to the last 1/2 hour of House or some other hour long show.
I think the shows are pretty oddly paired....now that is likely the intention of the block. But office comedy right after redneck esque country bumpkin stuff doesnt quite mesh that well, not quite sure they have similar audiences. I would think the office would work better with something like Scrubs, granted they probably tried this already.

After 9 years of second shift work, I'm finally getting to watch some regular prime time shows.....Its a shame what a clusterfrick this whole mess has become(reality shows, etc)

[Easy Mac]

they tried scrubs and the office last year, and scrubs got shafted with a midseason replacement... if we're still lucky.

[Sublime 2]

they tried scrubs and the office last year, and scrubs got shafted with a midseason replacement... if we're still lucky.


I was just about two minutes away from asking what happened to Scrubs...I love that show! Is there anything about it's return?

[sachmo71]

The Office, like Arrested Development, has a mix of humor styles. People don't seem to respond well to that.

For the life of me, I can't figure it out.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I think the shows are pretty oddly paired....now that is likely the intention of the block. But office comedy right after redneck esque country bumpkin stuff doesnt quite mesh that well, not quite sure they have similar audiences. I would think the office would work better with something like Scrubs, granted they probably tried this already.

After 9 years of second shift work, I'm finally getting to watch some regular prime time shows.....Its a shame what a clusterfrick this whole mess has become(reality shows, etc)
It has becomea clusterfrick indeed. Things are slowly starting to turn around. Last year, with the success of "Lost" and "Desperate Housewives", the networks slowly started to do less reality and more real programming. Hopefully this trend continues.

[Easy Mac]

I was just about two minutes away from asking what happened to Scrubs...I love that show! Is there anything about it's return?
Last I heard at the beginning of the season it was coming back in January, but I haven't heard anything lately.

[RPI-Fan]

It consistenly the lowest rated Tuesday show, that or Bones.

I have trouble finding concrete ratings data, but from what I've found it appears "Bones" handles "Earl" and "The Office" pretty easily, the latter two being very similar.

Where does your statement come from?

[Easy Mac]

Everything I've found so far is that Earl easily outpaces Bones, with the Office about equal.

Nov. 8
Bones - Between 3.9/6 and 5.3/8 rating, probably in the 4.5 range.
Earl - 7.3/11
Office - 4.9/7

Nov. 1
Bones - 5.0/8
Earl - 7.6/11
Office - 5.2/8

Now House completely destroys the shows in direct competition, but in terms of shows on major network TV, The office is generally the lowest rated show on Tuesday, that or Bones, but Earl easily outclasses it.

[kcchief19]

The ratings for The Office have been solid but not spectacular. It's a good show, but I don't know if it's going to find a large, sustained audience. It's very quirky and there simply isn't a good fit for it on a network schedule. Earl is a quirky show too, which makes those a good pair, but they are quirky in different ways.

Scrubs will return, but when and where is a good question. NBC moved it to a January launch because Zach Braff was shooting a movie and he's the franchise. I think NBC was holding it to see if Earl or The Office failed and then drop it back in on Tuesday. Right now, Thursday is a disaster for the network with both Joey and Will and Grace likely gone next year and The Apprentice sinking like a stone. Earl shows the most promise for promotion, but will it play on Thursday?

I don't know where Scrubs goes. NBC only has two hours of comedies on right now. An hour is opening up on Wednesday, but it's been a long time since NBC has tried comedy on Wednesdays. If I were NBC, I'd be tempted to squeeze Scrubs into a sink-or-swim schedule on Thursday, then move Earl and The Office there next year if it doesn't work.

NBC's usual MO would be to move Earl to Thursday now, the audience doesn't follow, and Scrubs and The Office fail together on Tuesday.

[timmynausea]

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117932679?categoryid=14&cs=1

I found this article about last week's ratings.

[Draft Dodger]

It consistenly the lowest rated Tuesday show, that or Bones.

figures it would be my favorite show after Arrested Development.

[GrantDawg]

figures it would be my favorite show after Arrested Development.
Don't worry. NBC was said to have picked up the entire season last week. It has actually improved on rating-retention the last couple of weeks. It is doing well for an underdog.

[mauchow]

What we need(I know TiVo, whatever) is to have every single TV in America(and elsewhere) to have a certain program in their cable(like DVR/TIVO) which allows you to watch what you want, when you want. Why should I have to watch my shows on Thursday just because they're shown on Thursday? Most of the time I'm required to tape them because 1, I have basketball those nights, and 2 my girlfriend watches O.C., so even if I wanted to watch Survivor, one of them will need to be taped.

Why not release the week's worth of shows every Monday and allow people to watch them whenever the hell they want by downloading them into their box(of course keep the commercials included to keep making your money).

Wow. My explanation sucks. Time to have 'nuther drink.

[Honolulu_Blue]

NBC's usual MO would be to move Earl to Thursday now, the audience doesn't follow, and Scrubs and The Office fail together on Tuesday.
Well, wherever Earl goes my TiVo shall follow...

[st.cronin]

What we need(I know TiVo, whatever) is to have every single TV in America(and elsewhere) to have a certain program in their cable(like DVR/TIVO) which allows you to watch what you want, when you want. Why should I have to watch my shows on Thursday just because they're shown on Thursday? Most of the time I'm required to tape them because 1, I have basketball those nights, and 2 my girlfriend watches O.C., so even if I wanted to watch Survivor, one of them will need to be taped.

Why not release the week's worth of shows every Monday and allow people to watch them whenever the hell they want by downloading them into their box(of course keep the commercials included to keep making your money).

Wow. My explanation sucks. Time to have 'nuther drink.

I'm sure that's coming.

[Swaggs]

Thursdays are brutal. Hopefully nothing else moves there.

I love Survivor and my wife loves The O.C., so we usually watch one on the main TV (that has the Tivo) and tape the other with the VCR. But it sucks when there is a good Thursday night game on ESPN. I usually end up watching them in the kitchen on the little TV between 8-9. :)

[Glengoyne]

Tuesday is a rough night for me. I like House a lot. The plot is always the same, and that is annoying, but I really love the character House. I just can't get enough of him. I think the actor does a great job with it, and the writing is often pretty original.

That said I really like Earl and The Office, so I usually watch House with the wife, and then follow up with the tape of Earl and The Office. Of course tonight I forgot to record NBC, so I was screwed afterwards with nothing to watch.

Wednesday is tough too as I like Lost as well as Criminal Minds. I'm a Patinkin fan of sorts, so I'm really trying to give it a shot. It is the closest of the new "profiler" shows, to the original "Unsub" profiler show. Nothing mystical about profiling...just an understanding of criminal behavior. I was distraught when Unsub was cancelled all those years ago.

[sachmo71]

Tuesday is hard for me because I tivo Earl, The Office, and Commander in Chief on one tv, and watch Amazing Race on another.

I usually get to watch Commander in Chief on Friday. :(
Such a good show.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Tuesday is hard for me too. I am usually watching some hockey game or another and all of a sudden just before 9 pm TiVO warns me it will have to switch the channel because we are recording both House and Earl. I am usually at a lost at this point because I can no longer abide watching non-sporting events on live TV.

[Draft Dodger]

I am usually at a lost at this point because I can no longer abide watching non-sporting events on live TV.

well, if you'd just stay out of threads where people give away the scores... :rolleyes:

[Anthony]

i only have two and a half shows i watch - Lost and Rome, and whatever is good on the Discovery/History channels. so easy. i certainly think something is coming down the pike where it won't matter what day a show comes out because DVR/Tivo is becoming such a staple of the American home that people are empowered to watch things on their own time. i don't really buy the old excuse "this show doesn't get enough ratings because it goes up against [insert name of powerhouse show here]". my wife is a huge tv watcher and i can't say she actually watches many shows live anymore.

[Draft Dodger]

my wife is a huge tv watcher and i can't say she actually watches many shows live anymore.

not that I'm a big TV watcher, but I pretty much don't watch ANY live TV

[Hammer755]

figures it would be my favorite show after Arrested Development.

" "

[Desnudo]

The Office, like Arrested Development, has a mix of humor styles. People don't seem to respond well to that.

For the life of me, I can't figure it out.

I watched the two seasons of the British version and I think the reason is that the show can be painful to watch sometimes. To me, sometimes the humor really falls flat. I found myself yawning at some prolonged stages, usually involving the boss. Sometimes it's outright hilarious. If they made a show just about the guy with the big ears torturing the slimy guy, then I'd watch it all day long.

[moriarty]

The Office, like Arrested Development, has a mix of humor styles. People don't seem to respond well to that.

For the life of me, I can't figure it out.

Sometimes I wonder who they give those Nielsen boxes (or whatever they're called) out to. I'd rather see Tivo provide stats on most recorded or most listed on Season Pass ... to get a real representation on what people like, but I know the privacy advocates would freak.

My two favorite comedies of the past 10 years have been Arrested Development and SportsNight. Neither of which 'apparently' found a following.

[sachmo71]

Sometimes I wonder who they give those Nielsen boxes (or whatever they're called) out to. I'd rather see Tivo provide stats on most recorded or most listed on Season Pass ... to get a real representation on what people like, but I know the privacy advocates would freak.

My two favorite comedies of the past 10 years have been Arrested Development and SportsNight. Neither of which 'apparently' found a following.


They gave one to my little sister. I'd totally forgotten about that. I need to ask her about it.

[QuikSand]

I'd rather see Tivo provide stats on most recorded or most listed on Season Pass ... to get a real representation on what people like.

Two observations:

1) The TiVo website lists their "top ten" or something like that in this regard.

2) I think you are giving the American people far too much credit.

[moriarty]

Two observations:

1) The TiVo website lists their "top ten" or something like that in this regard.
.

I had no idea. Wonder if any of the networks try to buy info. off them to use for charging/negotiating advertising rates.


2) I think you are giving the American people far too much credit.

Maybe, but (no offense to Sachmo's sister here) I'm wondering how many of the more affluent citizens are willing to put Nielson boxes, or whatever in their living rooms. I mean I could see people saying no thanks to those little boxes, but having no problems with a Tivo or three in their houses. I'm just wondering if the Neilsen ratings are truly representative across America. I don't know enough about how they come up with those ratings to really make a statement, but I'd be curious to see how the Tivo numbers match with the ratings.

[Crapshoot]

Its a good question - statistical sampling makes or breaks so much money, that the methodologies in question are often called into question by others. I find myself making the proverbial statement that everyone I know likes Arrested Development - (I'm a 23 year old male who's doing reasonably - aren't I supposed to be in the niche 18-25 bracket) - how can we be such a small group ?

[QuikSand]

Maybe, but (no offense to Sachmo's sister here) I'm wondering how many of the more affluent citizens are willing to put Nielson boxes, or whatever in their living rooms. I mean I could see people saying no thanks to those little boxes, but having no problems with a Tivo or three in their houses. I'm just wondering if the Neilsen ratings are truly representative across America. I don't know enough about how they come up with those ratings to really make a statement, but I'd be curious to see how the Tivo numbers match with the ratings.

Okay, let's say there's some sort of bias in the distribution of Nielsen boxes.

Television and advertising have billions invested in doing this stuff well, don't they? If there was something so obviously wrong with the Nielsen ratings system, then we'd have to imagine that advertisers would start to depend on something else, right? Someone would be getting an edge here. If the problem is so obvious that guys on the street like us can figure it out in 30 seconds of thinking... doesn't that suggest that someone else in a higher pay grade would have figured it out as well?

Just my thinking... if there are problems in the data collection, then I presume the people who have a vested interest in using that information take that into account and adjust accordingly.

[moriarty]

Okay, let's say there's some sort of bias in the distribution of Nielsen boxes.

Television and advertising have billions invested in doing this stuff well, don't they? If there was something so obviously wrong with the Nielsen ratings system, then we'd have to imagine that advertisers would start to depend on something else, right? Someone would be getting an edge here. If the problem is so obvious that guys on the street like us can figure it out in 30 seconds of thinking... doesn't that suggest that someone else in a higher pay grade would have figured it out as well?

Just my thinking... if there are problems in the data collection, then I presume the people who have a vested interest in using that information take that into account and adjust accordingly.

Maybe it's you giving them (the networks) too much credit. I mean (again, I have no real expertise in this area) as far as I know there haven't been any real changes in the way they measure TV ratings in the past 10-15 years. Yet we know technology has changed dramatically. I mean I hardly ever watch shows live b/c of Tivo ... yet I suspect the Nielson boxes only record what you watch live (not what you tape).

I suspect that both parties (the networks and people that pay for advertising) are comfortable with the current ratings because they are used to it, and know how to negotiate based on it. Introducing new data/new ways of collecting data would require collaboration, negotiation, agreement and change. And IMO change is never easy for the larger, older type of corporations we're talking about.

I also think there's some type of user information sharing violation that would occur if they used Tivo numbers w/out consent (or something similar). Perhaps they stick with the Nielson boxes b/c they have explicit consent from the people who have the boxes in their house.

[moriarty]

Dola - found an interesting (if somewhat biased perhaps) read on TV ratings on the Nielson site.
hxxp://www.nielsenmedia.com/whatratingsmean/

Looks like they do (somehow) take into account VCR recordings, although there's no metion of Tivo/DVR as far as I can tell - the web page might be a bit dated.

Interesting that they use diaries, and boxes where people have to click in when they're watching TV to caputre ratings.

Also somewhat interesting is there is no measure of how much someone likes a show. For example if I watch the Office every week and Earl every week and I love Earl but just think the Office is ok, there's no way to measure the difference. Sounds like it would rate my choices equally.

[QuikSand]

Many years ago, our family was selected for a similar company -- not Neilsen, but a competitor, I guess. No electronic box, we were just asked to manually fill out a datebook diary with the shows we watched and who watched them. Very low tech, but it was at least 20 years ago.

[gkb]

Two observations:

1) The TiVo website lists their "top ten" or something like that in this regard.

2) I think you are giving the American people far too much credit.

I had to go hunt down the list of the "top ten" because I was intrigued.

Here's the link (https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/top25.do?show25=seasonpass)

[moriarty]

Many years ago, our family was selected for a similar company -- not Neilsen, but a competitor, I guess. No electronic box, we were just asked to manually fill out a datebook diary with the shows we watched and who watched them. Very low tech, but it was at least 20 years ago.

I didn't even know there was a competitor, wonder if there still is or if Nielson is in effect a monopoly.

Man, if you could get the data from Tivo and cable company DVR's as well as possibly other sources like rental/purchase rate of TV shows on DVD and package it together as an alternative to, or poor man's version of Nielson ratings I'd bet you could charge a decent amount for that information.

[moriarty]

I had to go hunt down the list of the "top ten" because I was intrigued.

Here's the link (https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/top25.do?show25=seasonpass)

Interesting. Not sure what the time frame of the Tivo ratings is, but looks like the Apprentice is losing out big time. They're #5 in Tivo and not even in the top 20 as far as I can tell in the Nielsen's anymore.

Sadly, neither the Office or Arrested Development makes the top 25 in Tivo either. Good to see Earl coming in at 18 though. Anyone know where Earl ranks in the Nielsen's week to week?

[Easy Mac]

https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0.top25.most.subh.gif(Tivo)
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width=35>https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol13.gif</TD><TD class=tablecontent width=150>Commander-in-Chief (https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?show_id=SH7537830000&program_id=SH7537830000&dispatch=programsearch)</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=35>13</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=22>0</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD width=35>https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol14.gif</TD><TD class=tablecontent width=150>Family Guy (https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?show_id=SH2960010000&program_id=SH2960010000&dispatch=programsearch)</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=35>12</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=22>-2</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD width=35>https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol15.gif</TD><TD class=tablecontent width=150>Las Vegas (https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?show_id=SH5926160000&program_id=SH5926160000&dispatch=programsearch)</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=35>20</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=22>5</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD width=35>https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol16.gif</TD><TD class=tablecontent width=150>Boston Legal (https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?show_id=SH6723690000&program_id=SH6723690000&dispatch=programsearch)</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=35>21</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=22>5</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD width=35>https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol17.gif</TD><TD class=tablecontent width=150>Law & Order: Special Victims Unit (https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?show_id=SH3169780000&program_id=SH3169780000&dispatch=programsearch)</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=35>17</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=22>0</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD width=35>https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol18.gif</TD><TD class=tablecontent width=150>My Name Is Earl (https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?show_id=SH7538600000&program_id=SH7538600000&dispatch=programsearch)</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=35>18</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=22>0</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD width=35>https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol19.gif</TD><TD class=tablecontent width=150>Prison Break (https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?show_id=SH7541990000&program_id=SH7541990000&dispatch=programsearch)</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=35>15</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=22>-4</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD width=35>https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol20.gif</TD><TD class=tablecontent width=150>Nip/Tuck (https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?show_id=SH5896580000&program_id=SH5896580000&dispatch=programsearch)</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=35>14</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=22>-6</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD width=35>https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol21.gif</TD><TD class=tablecontent width=150>Alias (https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?show_id=SH4451130000&program_id=SH4451130000&dispatch=programsearch)</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=35>15</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=22>-6</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD width=35>https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol22.gif</TD><TD class=tablecontent width=150>Without a Trace (https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?show_id=SH5240800000&program_id=SH5240800000&dispatch=programsearch)</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=35>25</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=22>3</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD width=35>https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol23.gif</TD><TD class=tablecontent width=150>CSI: NY (https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?show_id=SH6797140000&program_id=SH6797140000&dispatch=programsearch)</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=35>22</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=22>-1</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD width=35>https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol24.gif</TD><TD class=tablecontent width=150>Law & Order (https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?show_id=SH0176170000&program_id=SH0176170000&dispatch=programsearch)</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=35>19</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=22>-5</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD width=35>https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol25.gif</TD><TD class=tablecontent width=150>The O.C. (https://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?show_id=SH5911070000&program_id=SH5911070000&dispatch=programsearch)</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=35>23</TD><TD class=tablecontent align=middle width=22>-2</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Most watched (Neilsen)
<TABLE borderColor=#336633 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 bgColor=#ffffff border=1><TBODY><TR><TD class=tableheader align=middle rowSpan=2>Rank
</TD><TD class=tableheader rowSpan=2>Program Name
</TD><TD class=tableheader align=middle rowSpan=2>Net
</TD><TD class=tableheader align=middle rowSpan=2>Day
</TD><TD class=tableheader align=middle rowSpan=2>Time
</TD><TD class=tableheader align=middle colSpan=2>Household
</TD><TD class=tableheader align=middle rowSpan=2>Viewers
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tableheader align=middle>Rating/Share
</TD><TD class=tableheader align=middle>Audience
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>1
</TD><TD>CSI
</TD><TD>CBS
</TD><TD>Thu
</TD><TD align=right>9:00 PM
</TD><TD align=right>18.2/27.0
</TD><TD align=right>20,087,000
</TD><TD align=right>29,546,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>2
</TD><TD>DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES
</TD><TD>ABC
</TD><TD>Sun
</TD><TD align=right>9:00 PM
</TD><TD align=right>15.8/23.0
</TD><TD align=right>17,440,000
</TD><TD align=right>25,934,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>3
</TD><TD>NFL MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL
</TD><TD>ABC
</TD><TD>Mon
</TD><TD align=right>9:07 PM
</TD><TD align=right>14.3/23.0
</TD><TD align=right>15,719,000
</TD><TD align=right>21,860,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>4
</TD><TD>WITHOUT A TRACE
</TD><TD>CBS
</TD><TD>Thu
</TD><TD align=right>10:01 PM
</TD><TD align=right>13.8/22.0
</TD><TD align=right>15,197,000
</TD><TD align=right>20,784,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>5
</TD><TD>GREY'S ANATOMY
</TD><TD>ABC
</TD><TD>Sun
</TD><TD align=right>10:01 PM
</TD><TD align=right>12.5/20.0
</TD><TD align=right>13,819,000
</TD><TD align=right>19,737,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>6
</TD><TD>CSI: MIAMI
</TD><TD>CBS
</TD><TD>Mon
</TD><TD align=right>10:00 PM
</TD><TD align=right>12.3/19.0
</TD><TD align=right>13,538,000
</TD><TD align=right>18,393,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>6
</TD><TD>CSI: NY
</TD><TD>CBS
</TD><TD>Wed
</TD><TD align=right>10:00 PM
</TD><TD align=right>12.3/20.0
</TD><TD align=right>13,574,000
</TD><TD align=right>19,225,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>8
</TD><TD>LOST
</TD><TD>ABC
</TD><TD>Wed
</TD><TD align=right>9:00 PM
</TD><TD align=right>12.0/18.0
</TD><TD align=right>13,215,000
</TD><TD align=right>20,012,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>9
</TD><TD>COLD CASE
</TD><TD>CBS
</TD><TD>Sun
</TD><TD align=right>8:00 PM
</TD><TD align=right>11.1/16.0
</TD><TD align=right>12,200,000
</TD><TD align=right>17,424,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>10
</TD><TD>NCIS
</TD><TD>CBS
</TD><TD>Tue
</TD><TD align=right>8:00 PM
</TD><TD align=right>11.0/17.0
</TD><TD align=right>12,176,000
</TD><TD align=right>17,792,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>10
</TD><TD>SURVIVOR: GUATEMALA
</TD><TD>CBS
</TD><TD>Thu
</TD><TD align=right>8:00 PM
</TD><TD align=right>11.0/17.0
</TD><TD align=right>12,145,000
</TD><TD align=right>18,981,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>12
</TD><TD>NFL MONDAY SHOWCASE
</TD><TD>ABC
</TD><TD>Mon
</TD><TD align=right>9:00 PM
</TD><TD align=right>10.5/16.0
</TD><TD align=right>11,524,000
</TD><TD align=right>16,304,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>13
</TD><TD>LAW AND ORDER:SVU
</TD><TD>NBC
</TD><TD>Tue
</TD><TD align=right>10:00 PM
</TD><TD align=right>10.4/17.0
</TD><TD align=right>11,416,000
</TD><TD align=right>15,763,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>13
</TD><TD>TWO AND A HALF MEN
</TD><TD>CBS
</TD><TD>Mon
</TD><TD align=right>9:00 PM
</TD><TD align=right>10.4/15.0
</TD><TD align=right>11,436,000
</TD><TD align=right>16,186,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>15
</TD><TD>E.R.
</TD><TD>NBC
</TD><TD>Thu
</TD><TD align=right>9:59 PM
</TD><TD align=right>10.1/16.0
</TD><TD align=right>11,137,000
</TD><TD align=right>15,441,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>16
</TD><TD>CRIMINAL MINDS
</TD><TD>CBS
</TD><TD>Wed
</TD><TD align=right>9:00 PM
</TD><TD align=right>9.8/15.0
</TD><TD align=right>10,806,000
</TD><TD align=right>15,086,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>17
</TD><TD>60 MINUTES
</TD><TD>CBS
</TD><TD>Sun
</TD><TD align=right>7:00 PM
</TD><TD align=right>9.7/16.0
</TD><TD align=right>10,720,000
</TD><TD align=right>14,458,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>17
</TD><TD>COMMANDER IN CHIEF
</TD><TD>ABC
</TD><TD>Tue
</TD><TD align=right>9:00 PM
</TD><TD align=right>9.7/14.0
</TD><TD align=right>10,712,000
</TD><TD align=right>14,778,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>19
</TD><TD>EXTREME MAKEOVER:HOME ED.
</TD><TD>ABC
</TD><TD>Sun
</TD><TD align=right>8:00 PM
</TD><TD align=right>9.5/14.0
</TD><TD align=right>10,487,000
</TD><TD align=right>16,687,000
</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>20
</TD><TD>HOUSE
</TD><TD>FOX
</TD><TD>Tue
</TD><TD align=right>9:00 PM
</TD><TD align=right>8.9/13.0
</TD><TD align=right>9,773,000
</TD><TD align=right>14,155,000
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>



All of this is the week ending the 13th of November

[sachmo71]

House at the bottom?

[RPI-Fan]

Maybe it's you giving them (the networks) too much credit. I mean (again, I have no real expertise in this area) as far as I know there haven't been any real changes in the way they measure TV ratings in the past 10-15 years. Yet we know technology has changed dramatically. I mean I hardly ever watch shows live b/c of Tivo ... yet I suspect the Nielson boxes only record what you watch live (not what you tape).

I suspect that both parties (the networks and people that pay for advertising) are comfortable with the current ratings because they are used to it, and know how to negotiate based on it. Introducing new data/new ways of collecting data would require collaboration, negotiation, agreement and change. And IMO change is never easy for the larger, older type of corporations we're talking about.

I also think there's some type of user information sharing violation that would occur if they used Tivo numbers w/out consent (or something similar). Perhaps they stick with the Nielson boxes b/c they have explicit consent from the people who have the boxes in their house.

There are individual undergraduate college courses on sampling error and correction. Somehow I think they're willing to pay some $$ to a few grad students who have studied this topic for years and years.

You're really not giving the Nielsen company enough credit. These guys feed their families off reducing sampling errors (not developing some fancy TV-show-counting boxes). I'm sure Nielsen contracts out or has a few departments. One of them makes their counting boxes, and I'm sure the largest, by far, is full of math & statistics majors.

They make money on being experts in analyzing sample data, not TV viewing habits.

[Raiders Army]

Commander in Chief was #17??????

[moriarty]

There are individual undergraduate college courses on sampling error and correction. Somehow I think they're willing to pay some $$ to a few grad students who have studied this topic for years and years.

You're really not giving the Nielsen company enough credit. These guys feed their families off reducing sampling errors (not developing some fancy TV-show-counting boxes). I'm sure Nielsen contracts out or has a few departments. One of them makes their counting boxes, and I'm sure the largest, by far, is full of math & statistics majors.

They make money on being experts in analyzing sample data, not TV viewing habits.

a) I think you're missing my point.
b) I think you're wrong.

a) I'm sure their 5,000 homes are statistically significant in terms of general population. This isn't a math question. But it is a question of is there a better way to measure television use? You can analyze numbers all you want, but if you're not analyzing relevant numbers (or neglecting a key piece of data like DVR recordings) then 5,000 statistics majors aren't going to get you a better number.

b) I think they actually do make their money off the fancy boxes and other collection devices, plus their process for collecting data. Let's face it, a couple of staticians and programmers + one big computer can crunch the numbers once you have the data. If this were the hard part, the barriers to entry would be very low. I think the hard part is getting the data, ensuring you're collecting accurate data, and finding ways to doublecheck/verify the data. If it was easy to get the data ... then I suspect there would be plenty of competitors out there cutting into their business. I don't know of any.

If you don't think the Nielsen company is worried about impacts of new technology, nor is investing in new technology then IMO you're wrong. I'll have to dig to find some links, but I recall reading that they're looking into everything from voice activated boxes (to quiz the viewers on what they're watching) to RFID type tags to identify who is in the room when shows are being played.

[moriarty]

Dola, I'm not sure of the original source but here is an article posted over at the AVS forum (it's an AV forum that I've found to be pretty reliable) by the moderator that talks about Nielsen's investment in new technologies and some of the pressure the company is under to keep up. It's an interesting read at least. I'd paste the whole thing, but it's a tad long.

hxxp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=512266

[GrantDawg]

Commander in Chief was #17??????
Yup. Commander and Chief is the number one rated show on Tuesday night in total viewers. It is number 4 in the key demo's, though, were House is number one.

[Passacaglia]

Don't most people who TiVo shows miss the commercials? If so, why would the networks want them counted?

[Easy Mac]

So they can lie to advertisers.

[Raiders Army]

I thought today was Saturday?

[sachmo71]

Yup. Commander and Chief is the number one rated show on Tuesday night in total viewers. It is number 4 in the key demo's, though, were House is number one.


Yay!

[RPI-Fan]

(or neglecting a key piece of data like DVR recordings)

How is this a "key" piece of data? I read some where that 3% of households use TiVo, and I'd guess the same amount use other DVR services. So if we round up, that's 10%, which isn't really all that significant of a factor.

[moriarty]

How is this a "key" piece of data? I read some where that 3% of households use TiVo, and I'd guess the same amount use other DVR services. So if we round up, that's 10%, which isn't really all that significant of a factor.

Don't know about the 3%, but it's significant enought that Nielsen is trying to measure it (see the link above). Assuming it is 3%, I can only guess that they feel it will replace the VCR in the near future so maybe they're trying to get ahead of the game.