Bowl Bound College Football Demo is out!

[TargetPractice6]

I'm actually kind of the opposite. I've always vastly preferred light text on a dark background. Seems easier on my eyes.Yeah, I agree. To me, white backgrounds are like staring into a light bulb.

[jbmagic]

would love to see a lock button for the players on the depth chart. so this way the cpu wont change the player when you click on suggest.

[FBPro]

would love to see a lock button for the players on the depth chart. so this way the cpu wont change the player when you click on suggest.Concur...

[KWhit]

I would like to see some keyboard hotkeys assigned to various functions like the View Stage Details Screen, Email, Team Roster, etc.

I often find it easier to navigate using the keyboard than mouse.

[Senator]

Yikes. Hopped into Access and opened the file - changed the leagues and divisions around - check - then I opened the teams and saw a plethora of headings that I had no clue what the number relationship was - ie. team colors ect... I just closed it down and decided to wait for smarter guys than me to lead the way.

[KWhit]

I just closed it down and decided to wait for smarter guys than me to lead the way.
Slowly backs out of thread.

[Anthony]

logos/helmets: just got done with all the colleges that begin with "A". on to the "B's" now. since i don't have any games in my current rotation, making my own images has become my new hobby.

[Rich1033]

A couple issues before I have simmed any games.

1) It seems that if a players last name doesnt fit on a screen(I noticed it on my team roster page) it will not show the last name at all.

for example, C. Housmanzaggalllaazing showed up as just C.

2) I had a runtime error when loading an old league that I started. Happened when I was at the depth chart screen and wanted to load the old league to see what the last name that wasnt showing up was.

3) Im not a fan of the way you set the depth chart. Lets say the AI lists a player as the backup SE and flanker and I want him to instead be my starting SE. Maybe Im an idiot but it looks like I cant get rid him being listed twice on the depth chart. Id like to only have him listed once at SE and instead have the old starter listed twice so he can backup both positions.

Also, say I wanted a kick returned that the AI didnt list on my depth chart, how do I add someone that is not there? I must be missing something.

[Rich1033]

Dola

I havent read through the whole thread, but has anyone had a chance to see if there are players that play both ways? or if it is even possible.

[Groundhog]

...annnnnnndddddd

Shelved. Ill wait til the glitches are worked out before I fall in love with a school.

Remember: This is a *beta demo*. They haven't even set a release date, and the whole point of releasing this is to catch these bugs; a good decision if you ask me. Falling in love with a school would be a bad, bad idea, as I'm fairly certain there is no hope in hell of using these save games in the final version... if you can even save at all, that is... I haven't tried.

Having said that, my Virginia Cavaliers have an AWESOME freshman RB with truck loads of potential. Can't wait to see how he develops!!!! ;)

[DaddyTorgo]

anyone else notice that on the player card if the text for the "projection" or whatever it is, basically the scouting report, if that's too long it doesn't scroll??

or is that just my computer being weird?

[Blade6119]

anyone else notice that on the player card if the text for the "projection" or whatever it is, basically the scouting report, if that's too long it doesn't scroll??

or is that just my computer being weird?

I noticed the same thing

[TazFTW]

3) Im not a fan of the way you set the depth chart. Lets say the AI lists a player as the backup SE and flanker and I want him to instead be my starting SE. Maybe Im an idiot but it looks like I cant get rid him being listed twice on the depth chart. Id like to only have him listed once at SE and instead have the old starter listed twice so he can backup both positions.
Right clicking on the name in the depth chart deletes him.

[SFL Cat]

Icy, in your team name pack,it should be TCU Horny Frogs, not Horn Frogs.

ANd thanks so much for the effort you put into this. Greatly appreciated.

Fixed it for you.

[bhlloy]

Just a few more things I've read in this thread I'd like to agree with in the hope of bringing them to Arlies attention....

Defensive holding penalties are rife. Haven't seen this many in college football over the years.

The depth chart is pretty frustrating. A lock button would make things infinitely better.
Also PLEASE put the players position next to his name, at least for the special teams depth chart. I played a few games with a backup OT on the outside on my kickoff coverage team because he had the same surname as a backup DB.

[thealmighty]

Maybe it is just me, since I do not remember seeing this anywhere, but when I try to use a scroll button, it does not scroll- it just goes down a few spots each time I hit the top or bottom scroll bbutton.

[MrBigglesworth]

I'm having problems installing, it is hanging at:

c:\WINDOWS\Fonts\SF Electrotome Bold Oblique.ttf

[Icy]

I'm having problems installing, it is hanging at:

c:\WINDOWS\Fonts\SF Electrotome Bold Oblique.ttf
That means that another software in your computer is usign that font right now so it can't be overwritten. Close all the software you have open (Internet exporter, email software etc etc), even if running in the brackground, then install again.

[Icy]

Yeah, I agree. To me, white backgrounds are like staring into a light bulb.
To me too, can't stand a light bakground, hurts my eyes badly with all the bright.

[AlexB]

To me...

To me too...

FOFC misquotes the Chuckle Brothers... :D

[Icy]

I have improved my yahoo style logo pack and real database, fixed some bugs, improved images quality and added a few missing or wrong logos.

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=58522
http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8017

[Ajaxab]

It would also be nice to see a player's injury status on the depth chart itself rather than clicking on the player card. Something like 'Smith 3.0/5.0 (Q6)' rather than the current display would make for an easier way to deal with injuries instead of either having the injury e-mail open and going back and forth or clicking on the player card to check a player's status.

[Leonidas]

An in-season academic suspension is not very realistic IMO. You don't see GPA changes during the session. I think academic suspensions should only occur after semester changes. Usually players are declared academically ineligible in the offseason, frequently in the summer.

[gstelmack]

An in-season academic suspension is not very realistic IMO. You don't see GPA changes during the session. I think academic suspensions should only occur after semester changes. Usually players are declared academically ineligible in the offseason, frequently in the summer.
They are also declared ineligible at the end of the Fall semester in early December, just in time for one or two end of season games, conference championship games, and bowls.

[Icy]

We discussed about it in one of the first betas and this was the explanation:

From Arlie:


In real life, there are two: Prior to the season and prior to the second semester (Dec). I moved it to 4 inseason to add a little more strategy to that aspect and not completely hamper a team in a bowl game.

To me, it wouldn't be all that fun if you started the fall semester with three guys on suspension and nothing you could do until December. Or, if you finished December and lost your starting QB and RB to the national championship game. I'd imagine there would be some complaints then. http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Jaguars]

We discussed about it in one of the first betas and this was the explanation:

From Arlie:


I think it should be as it is in real life. Gives you a reason to recruit better students.

[Airhog]

I hope you guys are enjoying the game. Unfortunately, a runtime error 48 can be difficult to fix, since the error is probably not reproduceable on arlie's machine. And I so wanted to play this one, but it just ain't gonna happen right now...

[MizzouRah]

The reports overall are good and I can't wait to get some time to really delve into this game.

[Leonidas]

In real life, there are two: Prior to the season and prior to the second semester (Dec). I moved it to 4 inseason to add a little more strategy to that aspect and not completely hamper a team in a bowl game.

To me, it wouldn't be all that fun if you started the fall semester with three guys on suspension and nothing you could do until December. Or, if you finished December and lost your starting QB and RB to the national championship game. I'd imagine there would be some complaints then.Then respectfully, Arlie you got this part of it wrong. And how often do you see a team lose guys IRL. I'm losing 6-7 guys every 3 weeks. IRL I think at the most a team might lose 2 guys at the end of the season. This part of the game is giving me second thoughts.

[Jaguars]

Then respectfully, Arlie you got this part of it wrong. And how often do you see a team lose guys IRL. I'm losing 6-7 guys every 3 weeks. IRL I think at the most a team might lose 2 guys at the end of the season. This part of the game is giving me second thoughts.

I wouldn't say it's a purchase killer in my opinion, but I certainly don't like it as it is. I am sure they will tweak it some. But there is enough to do without worrying about handing out study hall hours.

IMHO, suspension should be handled as it is IRL.

[Icy]

Remember this is a beta demo, there are going to be two ways to avoid that in the final game:

1- A button to set AI to manage the tutor hours.
2- An option to set off academic probation.

As this game is going to be fully customizable, each of us could play it as we want.

[jbmagic]

Remember this is a beta demo, there are going to be two ways to avoid that in the final game:

1- A button to set AI to manage the tutor hours.
2- An option to set off academic probation.

As this game is going to be fully customizable, each of us could play it as we want.


that good news

but academic probation needs to be toned down some if you have it on.

also i hope there an injury slider too.

[amdaily]

As always, the interface makes another GDS game basically unplayable for me...

[Cuckoo]

I just want to throw my two cents in here and give a big "Kudos" to Arlie and the GDS team. I've been toying around with the demo just a bit, and although there are various minor issues (all of which have been mentioned) that I pretty much agree with, this is a pretty solid game already.

I'm enjoying it quite a bit and will almost certainly buy the full version upon release.

[Icy]

As always, the interface makes another GDS game basically unplayable for me...
May i ask why?

[Anthony]

As always, the interface makes another GDS game basically unplayable for me...

so you prefer to play the Excel spreadsheet game known as FOF/TCY than something that actually *looks* like a game?

[st.cronin]

I think the interface is ok. The player cards for recruits is very messy and hard to read - that was one thing that jumped out at me. All the screens are a little bit busier in terms of color and detail than I would prefer, but the interface is fine - it's a lot better than that old college basketball game (TDCB or whatever it was called).

[Ben E Lou]

There are more clicks than necessary all around, but the only place that appears truly problematic is recruiting. There are way too many extra clicks during that phase. If there is a way to move the "Visit" area into the regular recruiting screens, it would help quite a bit. Also, I can't stand that when I choose not to view non-qualifiers and/or already-committed guys one week, then the next week they come up again and I have to make that same selection every week. It is reminscent of OOTP's non-remembering sorts. {blech}

[st.cronin]

If there is a way to move the "Visit" area into the regular recruiting screens, it would help quite a bit.

amen
Or even just a way to screen out players not on your watch list.

[bhlloy]

A couple more random thoughts after playing some more this evening:

Further to my post above, either the suggestion button doesn't work or kickoff coverage logic is screwy. The computer is convinced the best two candidates for outside contain are an offensive tackle and a tight end.

Recruiting is fun, but all the good players seem to be gone by the end of the third round. As USC, this meant all my targets were gone less than a third of the way through. I don't think I saw a five star recruit still on the board after round four. This is a) not realistic in the slightest and b) doesn't allow enough time for recruiting "battles" to develop.

Couldn't agree more with what SkyDog is saying. The information in the visit screen has got to be in the main recruiting screen. Or at least be able to sort by interest in your program from the main screen.

EDIT - I love the ATH concept. I missed out on all the good offensive tackles, but I was able to snare a 6'8 280 DE with an athlete notation who's projected to reach 300lbs. He's my big hope for an elite tackle (or would be if I could play past this year anyway :) )

[Galaril]

A couple more random thoughts after playing some more this evening:

Further to my post above, either the suggestion button doesn't work or kickoff coverage logic is screwy. The computer is convinced the best two candidates for outside contain are an offensive tackle and a tight end.

Recruiting is fun, but all the good players seem to be gone by the end of the third round. As USC, this meant all my targets were gone less than a third of the way through. I don't think I saw a five star recruit still on the board after round four. This is a) not realistic in the slightest and b) doesn't allow enough time for recruiting "battles" to develop.

Couldn't agree more with what SkyDog is saying. The information in the visit screen has got to be in the main recruiting screen. Or at least be able to sort by interest in your program from the main screen.

EDIT - I love the ATH concept. I missed out on all the good offensive tackles, but I was able to snare a 6'8 280 DE with an athlete notation who's projected to reach 300lbs. He's my big hope for an elite tackle (or would be if I could play past this year anyway :) )

So, players physical attributes such as weight will change over the years that is awesome.

[MrBug708]

Then respectfully, Arlie you got this part of it wrong. And how often do you see a team lose guys IRL. I'm losing 6-7 guys every 3 weeks. IRL I think at the most a team might lose 2 guys at the end of the season. This part of the game is giving me second thoughts.

For the SEC, there needs to be a "buy player" or "fix grade" option" :D

[jbmagic]

can someone explain this play by play.

Louisiana-Monroe ball, Q1, 1-10-ULM9 (14:40) 0-0
Offense: Short Pass, Set: Shotgun, Play: SG-SE-slants (short pass)
Defense: Normal, Set: Nickel, Play: Nickel-norm-TMan (normal)
QB W. Bender completes a 6 yard cross to WR P. Peelle (SS R. Polamalu, ILB C. Townsell).

Louisiana-Monroe ball, Q1, 2-9-ULM38 (13:16) 0-0
Offense: Short Pass, Set: Pro Set, Play: PS-HB-curls (short pass)
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: Nickel, Play: Nickel-pass-Man-B10 (target pass)
QB W. Bender completes a 9 yard hook to RB M. Stachelski (SS R. Polamalu).

how did the ulm get the ball from the 9 yards on the first seires and next play there on the 38 yard after completing a 6 yard pass?

and how did it become 2 and 9 on the 2nd series when they completed a 6 yard pass on the first series. should the 2nd series be 1st and 4 and not 2nd and 9


and how did the time on the first series go from14:40 on first play to 13:16 on the next play?

[ahbrady]

I've enjoyed playing the demo. There are some improvements that can and hopefully will be made, but I'm pleased enough with a new college football game that I'm going to buy it as soon as it's available.

Thanks to Arlie and crew for including my high school in the game. I think it's the first time it's been in a game. I'm assuming because it's a private school. Did you come up with the prestige for the high schools based on how they did last year? I noticed that the state champions from each class in Arkansas had a "high" prestige where the rest had "normal."

[jbmagic]

another example

San Diego State ball, Q1, 3-3-SDSU40 (09:09) 0-7
Offense: Short Pass, Set: I Form, Play: I-SE-curls (short pass)
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: Dime, Play: Dime-pass-MZ (target pass)
QB C. Boiman completes a 9 yard hook to WR S. Archibald (OOB).

San Diego State ball, Q1, 2-8-ULM49 (08:25) 0-7
Offense: Medium Pass, Set: I Form, Play: I-FL-post-TE-out (med pass)
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: 3-4, Play: 34-pass-Man-B7 (target pass)
QB C. Boiman completes a 2 yard post to WR S. Archibald (ILB C. Caldwell).



it seems to me, that some plays are not getting recorded on the play by play log. that could explain the first example too i did above.

look at the time of possession?

also it should be a first down not 2nd and 8th after completed a 9 yard pass when it was 3rd and 3.

[Jaguars]

For the SEC, there needs to be a "buy player" or "fix grade" option" :D

:mad:

Go Gators!

[st.cronin]

The play by play really needs to be cleaned up. Spelling mistakes, no spaces between certain words, wrong description for the play, etc.

[KWhit]

A couple of things:

I'm losing a ton of guys to suspension every year. It doesn't seem realistic to me, and is killing the fun factor a little.

It's been mentioned, but I'll agree that carries for the starting RB are out of whack. I had a couple of games in my 1st season where my star RB got every carry in the game (45+ carries).

[DaddyTorgo]

A couple of things:

I'm losing a ton of guys to suspension every year. It doesn't seem realistic to me, and is killing the fun factor a little.

It's been mentioned, but I'll agree that carries for the starting RB are out of whack. I had a couple of games in my 1st season where my star RB got every carry in the game (45+ carries).
well i think when we can turn off the academic side of things that will solve the losing guys to suspension, although I agree that hopefully that'd be a quick-fix for Arlie to tune-down.

as for the carries: I thought we just went through this FOF, and honestly it doesn't bother me. As long as there is a negative effect to it then that's fine, 100% of the carries should mean an absolute 100%. Don't forget that we will have the ability to set starters playing time in the final version, and with that we'll be able to adjust the % of carries for the starting RB. And I personally would much rather have 100% be a hard-and-fast 100%, not a FOF style "most".

[Bee]

Tonight was the first night I had a chance to spend any time with the demo. I played around with it for an hour or two. I agree with those who say the academic suspensions need work. IMO, Arlie may have been trying to add some degree of strategy or something, but only succeeded in making it annoying to me. I'd prefer to play with academic suspensions on since it's part of the game, but with the way it works now...I'll take no suspensions to annoying.

I find there's also a lack of consistency with the interface. The method used to move from one screen to another seems to change depending on where you are. Sometimes you have to click on one of the buttons on the left, sometimes there's a button at the top, sometimes it's a link someplace else you follow to the next item. I think the screens for the most part are well laid out individually, just navigating between them needs to be more uniform IMO. I also looked over a couple game logs and saw some of the bugs others mentioned. I'm sure Arlie will deal with most of those quickly either before release or with the first patch once the game is out.

It's hard to tell long-term playability with a one season demo and I really didn't spend nearly enough time with it, but overall it looks like it has a good deal of potential.

[Anthony]

ICY: for your real teams file you have Rice as "Central TexasRice Owls". maybe you can fix that when you get a chance, i don't have Access on my home PC.

[Icy]

ICY: for your real teams file you have Rice as "Central TexasRice Owls". maybe you can fix that when you get a chance, i don't have Access on my home PC.
Weird, that was fixed on the second file i released, somewhat that mistake is back. Will fix it.

[Icy]

Dola, HA you must have one of the old versions as in the latest one that is fixed. Download it again from http://www.prodeportes.com/bb/pstats1.3.zip

[dervack]

yep

also a lot of plays are not getting recorded on the play by play log.

look at my example above.

Oh man. JB pointing out grammar mistakes. Now that's funny. :D

[jbmagic]

Oh man. JB pointing out grammar mistakes. Now that's funny. :D


i am not talking about grammar mistakes. i guess you cant read, but you always like taking shots at me.


i am talking that not all plays are getting recorded on play by play log.

look at my plays i posted above and you will see.

i think thats a major bug. at least we still in beta.

[MizzouRah]

jb's getting fired up!!

[INDalltheway]

Someone here doesn't want to read 7 pages worth of discussion, so could someone some up how this game is lookin? I will be downloading it soon, but a nice summary would be nice. :)

[st.cronin]

Someone here doesn't want to read 7 pages worth of discussion, so could someone some up how this game is lookin? I will be downloading it soon, but a nice summary would be nice. :)


Solid ... lot of little things need scrubbing; academics is bad, but in the full game you will have the option to turn it off; recruiting is deep and intriguing but messy and complicated.

Pretty much meets or exceeds expectations at this point, imo.

[yabanci]

So this isn't really a demo, but rather a big beta testing project?

[MrBug708]

I think it's a combo of both. Everyone's been waiting and while it's not totally done, it gives them a feel on how it's going. Icy's on the beta team so he can work on things as they are finishing. You can look at it different ways I guess.

[Arles]

The main point of the demo is to make sure people can install the game OK before they shell out cash and also make sure people get a 50-foot view on the different features the game will offer. That way, when we do the final release, we should hopefully have fewer issues with people being unable to play the moment they download the game. In fact, for all of you with the demo working, you will simply need to download and install a 15 MB (or so) update with a new EXE and nothing else.

It seems there is a lot of debate on the academics aspect of the game. As an FYI, the beta team is very insistent upon upping injuries and reducing suspensions and I fought it a little bit wanting to make sure the academics option wasn't just a formality. But, based on what I've seen in comments, I will definately be toning the suspensions down and adding an option to remove them alltogether (primarily for use in MP leagues - I would guess).

The rest of the issues are ones that had been reported by the beta team in many cases, but had multiple causes (the FG/XP bug being the main example of this). I had thought we had cleaned most of these out but the volume of playing on the demo helped me find a couple instances I hadn't seen in the beta. In the end, I think this weekend will have really helped the quality of the final product, but also provided you guys with a nice view into the types of options/features that will be part of the final game.

One of the areas that was not enabled for the demo was editing. There will be an in-game player and team editor, as well as a help file for modifying the initial database for those inclined to do so. We also have made it possible to "skin" every screen in the game - with the exception that the font colors on a given screen cannot be changed. Still, for those of you that are adament about the background (which seems about 50-50 on preference), there will be ways for people to modify any screen they wish.

Finally, there are certain design decisions people may not agree with that I've made (recruiting in the offseason, academic suspension method, QB rushing stats,...). One of the things that's hard to do as a developer is to make every person happy while also ending up with a game that's fun and challenging to play. I will certainly try to give options for some of these (ie, turn off suspensions, getting fired, recording playoff stats, allowing players to leave early,...), but this can't be done for everything. So, all I ask is that you give the game a shot and if something is really bothering you, let me know and we will see what we can do for the next version.

[sovereignstar]

I think beta demos are great ideas. Especially for first-version games.

[Anthony]

as long as you make as many aspects of the game editable as possible, i'm on board. i think as a game developer your primary responsibility is to allow me to make the universe *i* want to, and not necessarily handcuff me to the universe *you* want (and i mean "you" as in general terms, not you specifically). that's why OOTP works for me, i can edit as much as i want. other games are a bit more rigid in terms of forcing me to play in the constraints placed upon me by the creator. i like to think outside the box, and i formed a FOF league with some pretty radical ideas, but unfortunately as good as FOF is in providing realistic results it's a bitch to play in any way not intended by the creator.

so make your game as customizable as possible.

[dubb93]

QB rushing stats,

I've yet to download the demo but am big on realistic stats. What exactly is wrong with the QB rushing stats?

[Flasch186]

Arles:

Not only has this beta demo been well executed and your communications thereafter an awesome Plus to the experience, I believe that the end product is going to be an incrdible game. I WILL be purchasing the game and appreciate the hard work you have done and the well thought out decisions leading up to the realease date.

[Ben E Lou]

I think beta demos are great ideas. Especially for first-version games.I agree wholeheartedly. Earlier this week (after having had the preview beta for about a week), I mentioned that very thing to Arlie--that I thought the game was at the point that it could be helped greatly by letting lots of people bang away at it and give opinions on things like academics and injuries. I was very pleased to find out that he had already planned to do just that. While some may be annoyed at playing around with a demo that still has bugs, I think that overall, this will help the game immensely. After all, how many text sims can you name that you were able to get into a serious career before the first patch, anyway? Rather than the ol' "paying to beta test" accusation, in this case, we are choosing (or not choosing) to help tighten up the game before paying one red cent. Given the past history of text sims, I can't imagine why anyone could complain about the way they're going about this.

(Oh, and to answer the above question for me, out of the 20+ text sims I've purchased since the original Mogul, there's only been one text sim *ever* that I didn't have to wait for a patch before getting serious about a career.)

[TazFTW]

I've yet to download the demo but am big on realistic stats. What exactly is wrong with the QB rushing stats?
IRL, QB sacks are subtracted from QB rushing stats. Arlie decided not to subtract them from a QB's rushing stats but they are subtracted from the team's rushing stats. Arlie says that this is a better way for people to judge a QB's running ability. Some people disagree because it is not as it is in real life.

[Ben E Lou]

IRL, QB sacks are subtracted from QB rushing stats. Arlie decided not to subtract them from a QB's rushing stats but they are subtracted from the team's rushing stats. Arlie says that this is a better way for people to judge a QB's running ability. Some people disagree because it is not as it is in real life.To me, this is analogous to FOF's using "points per visit" stat in the red zone. In the case of both the case of points per visit and BBCF's method of calculating QB rushing stats, are they the way that the stat is tracked in real life? No. Are both *MUCH* better indicators of the success/failure that the real-life stats are supposed to help indicate? Yes.

[dubb93]

IRL, QB sacks are subtracted from QB rushing stats. Arlie decided not to subtract them from a QB's rushing stats but they are subtracted from the team's rushing stats. Arlie says that this is a better way for people to judge a QB's running ability. Some people disagree because it is not as it is in real life.

That is refreshing to hear. I was expecting something along the lines of all QB's being pocket passers, or every QB being able to put up solid rushing stats.

[johnnyshaka]

IRL, QB sacks are subtracted from QB rushing stats. Arlie decided not to subtract them from a QB's rushing stats but they are subtracted from the team's rushing stats. Arlie says that this is a better way for people to judge a QB's running ability. Some people disagree because it is not as it is in real life.

Don't know if this has been suggested yet or not, but why not just include both calculations?? Have a stat for QBs showing their rushing yards with sacks figured in and then another one showing them without sacks. Or, just include the yardage lost via the sack in the rushing portion of the stats report so it's readily available to make comparisons.

[Emiliano]

Arles:

Not only has this beta demo been well executed and your communications thereafter an awesome Plus to the experience, I believe that the end product is going to be an incrdible game. I WILL be purchasing the game and appreciate the hard work you have done and the well thought out decisions leading up to the realease date.
Exactly my thoughts. Great job Arlie.

[st.cronin]

Has anybody figured out a way, during recruiting, to a) track your weekly budget expenditures? and b) find out which other schools have offered scholarships to recruits you are interested in?

a) I have had to do with pen/paper.
b) I suspect this is a design decision, a fog of war type setting - if this is so, it's a bad idea.

[TazFTW]

Ouch. How common is this injury going to be?

TE Bobbie Kotite is out a couple months with his Testicles (Testicular Cancer). We will do what we can to get him back into action as soon as possible, but we can't make any promises at this point.

[edit]Interesting. I simmed 1 week and he is now cured of cancer. He went from Out 12-14 weeks to OK.

[Ajaxab]

Has anybody figured out a way, during recruiting, to a) track your weekly budget expenditures? and b) find out which other schools have offered scholarships to recruits you are interested in?

a) I have had to do with pen/paper.
b) I suspect this is a design decision, a fog of war type setting - if this is so, it's a bad idea.

I agree on these points. Even if we don't know exactly which schools have offered recruits scholarships, it would be nice to get a bit more feedback about where recruits' respective heads are at in their decision-making processes. Maybe this info can be ascertained through a combination of interest levels and your scouting service's feedback, but it would be nice to have this information handy. Adding this info might also provide for a more interesting universe in the sense recruits could tell you they really wanted to play for your school and then turn around and go to your rival instead. These kinds of situations could theoretically give you more of an emotional engagement with the game.

[Anthony]

Ouch. How common is this injury going to be?



[edit]Interesting. I simmed 1 week and he is now cured of cancer. He went from Out 12-14 weeks to OK.

lol...WOW :eek:

[DaddyTorgo]

I agree on these points. Even if we don't know exactly which schools have offered recruits scholarships, it would be nice to get a bit more feedback about where recruits' respective heads are at in their decision-making processes. Maybe this info can be ascertained through a combination of interest levels and your scouting service's feedback, but it would be nice to have this information handy. Adding this info might also provide for a more interesting universe in the sense recruits could tell you they really wanted to play for your school and then turn around and go to your rival instead. These kinds of situations could theoretically give you more of an emotional engagement with the game.
well there is that weekly email that comes from the scouting service giving you advice. But yes, it would be nice if it could be a bit more specific. "No Alcorn State, QB Joey Briggs won't sign with you because he's going to play for Michigan. He feels your school is way beneath him."

but maybe i'm spoiled by FM?

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

when monitoring recruits in-season, can you actually DO anything? like add them to your watch list or something from the "monitor recruits" screen?

[dubb93]

Aside from being able to see the upcoming recruits and their interest level do I actually need to do ANYTHING at all about recruiting in season? Or do I just look at them?

[gstelmack]

I'm just drooling at the reports and utilities I'll be able to write given that this is an Access database and VS.NET 2005 comes with some sweet tools that make it trivial to read from an Access data source...

[dubb93]

Ya beat me to it DaddyTorgo :), I can't figure it out either.

[Airhog]

Hopefully Arlie will release a non-beta demo, one that runs on my machine at least.

[dubb93]

Incase Arlie reads this, I would really like a way to see what plays we get a bonus and penalty for running in game while I'm calling plays. I figured it would already be in, so I'm pretty much calling plays in the dark on offense for the time being.

My first game is off to an interesting start. I'm playing as Indiana and somehow actually got some good players, mainly a quick RB with great hands(4 carries 21 yards so far) and one of the best QB's in the big ten. If only we had the receivers and line to go with them.....

On the defensive side, we have no lineman worth anything(1.5 current NT!!), average linebackers(4 starters range from 3.5 current to 2.0 current), and a secondary that should be able to shut down ANYONE! A 4.5/5.0 CB and a 4.0/4.5 CB.

So far against Kentucky we lost a fumble that was returned for a TD on our first possession, and then marched the ball down the field 80 yards on 6 plays for a TD. So its 7-7, time to see how this interesting D can do.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'd like to see that too dub. right now it just seems like there's a lot that you're going to have to write down when playing the game. which is no fun. stuff like that, and recruits in-season, stuff like that.

edit: tooth-and-nail right now as #3 Florida against #2 LSU.

[AlexB]

FWIW, although I have not downloaded the demo, I think that for a 1st release the input from a board like this is invaluable for the developers, and in the vast majority of cases the points have been raised in a constructive manner.

I'm sure Arles is grateful for the input, and you guys can feel good that you have responded in the right way, and should all pat yourselves on the bakc in the knowledge that you have helped make a game that you will enjoy in the future a better experience for many others.

[dubb93]

The Hoosiers are doing their best to frustrate me. Right now it is 20-14 Kentucky at the half despite the fact that we have 150+ more yards than them right now.

Their 2 TDs were a 56 yard fumble return for a TD, and a big 12 yard drive off a fumble we had on a kickoff return.

We set them up for a 41 yard field goal attempt with a defensive holding and roughing the passer penalty(on 3rd down!). They missed the 41 yarder, but we jumped offsides giving them a 1st down. They ended up getting a field goal later on the drive. The 1 good drive they did have ended with a made 45 yarder.

On our side we've dropped 6 passes in the first half, including what would have been a 60+ yard touchdown when the WR had the corner burned. Both of our scoring drives have been 80 or more yard drives.

This second half better go better for us....

[DaddyTorgo]

44-9 Florida over LSU with 7:53 left in the 4th. The suspense is pretty much out of this one, I just hope I get the bump to #1/#2 after this. I want to end a season @ #1 and see how well I can do recruiting then, cuz the season I actually ended at #2 or #3 I did really horrible in recruiting. And that might be a problem somewhat Arles...I'm talking of all the guys i went hard after (and this is as the #2/#3 team in the country, lost in the championship game by 6 points or something)...I got ONE of them. And this was guys with 10 interest in coming to Michigan that I spent max money on through the entire recruiting process...methinks a little tweaking might need to be done.

[WVUFAN]

Rather than post in a whole new topic, I thought I'd toss this in here -- this was posted in the Grey Dog forum, but I know not everyone looks over there. My apologies for those who may have already read this:

I've always loved the online leagues -- from my first league using FPS Pro to FOF. I've wanted the chance to participate in an actual college league, and since this game is soon to be upon us, I've decided to go ahead and begin the process of creating a league for players of Bowl Bound.

The website is yet to be set up, but if you're interested in participating, go to the newly setup forums HERE (http://ncaacfl.org/smf) and register, talk about what you would like to see in the league and grab up your favorite team! It's my hope to, along with good dedicated players, to make this a fun, enjoyable league for many years to come.

Anyway, please stop by, and again, thanks for this fantastic game. :-)

Eric
www.ncaacfl.org (http://www.ncaacfl.org/)
<!-- / message -->

[Groundhog]

OK, I've spent several hours on this now, and I'm very impressed. The full version of this game is going to keep me entertained for a LONG time.

[DaddyTorgo]

agreed. but one thing that seems kind of weird to me...the descriptions of "short/medium/long" passing play seem kind of arbitrary. More often than not I've seen short passes on say 3rd and 4 go for 11-12 yards, and medium passes for 30-40 yards. More often then they would if it was simply broken coverage...or maybe there just needs to be more of "and coverage broke down on that play" kinda PBP, because right now as it stands I could make a living just throwing short passes and never having to go to medium/long. Anyone else notice this?

[dubb93]

agreed. but one thing that seems kind of weird to me...the descriptions of "short/medium/long" passing play seem kind of arbitrary. More often than not I've seen short passes on say 3rd and 4 go for 11-12 yards, and medium passes for 30-40 yards. More often then they would if it was simply broken coverage...or maybe there just needs to be more of "and coverage broke down on that play" kinda PBP, because right now as it stands I could make a living just throwing short passes and never having to go to medium/long. Anyone else notice this?

Could it be your wide receivers? B/C I just haven't seen my short passes go for more than 12 yards so far, and that was once on a screen and the PBP said my RB broke several tackles. More often than not they have gone for 3-4 yards(or even no gain on screens), and my medium passes go for 7-12 yards. This is with WR's of 2.5 and 1.5 current starting. My RB that broke the screen is a 3.0 current listed as a "3rd down back."

[dubb93]

:SIGH: Touchdown on 3rd down called back for holding. We throw an incomplete pass and miss a field goal. This team is going to be hard to get to win games...

[dervack]

i am not talking about grammar mistakes.

Uh, yeah you were, but what fucking ever. Apparently :D means nothing to you.

[AlexB]

Uh, yeah you were, but what fucking ever. Apparently :D means nothing to you.

This has nothing to do with me, and I shouldn't get involved, but it's Friday night 4am over here so intenet board etiquette is not so important right now.

jbmagic was not talking about a grammar error - he was highlighting the fact that around about a minute of the game logs appeared to go missing from his report.

And the :D would have been fine if he had have been making a point about grammar - the joke was good, you just chose the one occasion where it was not applicable. Store it up for next time, copy and paste, everyone's a winner. ;)

[dubb93]

If anyone is waiting for an update for how the game ended, I quit it when they scored a late TD, and decided to go for 2. They got a false start and it changed from going for 2 to 1st and goal. 3 plays later they had 6 more points and I decided to quit. I plan on trying again later, but I must say it was very frustrating actually coming back and taking the lead and losing it on that.

[MizzouRah]

If anyone is waiting for an update for how the game ended, I quit it when they scored a late TD, and decided to go for 2. They got a false start and it changed from going for 2 to 1st and goal. 3 plays later they had 6 more points and I decided to quit. I plan on trying again later, but I must say it was very frustrating actually coming back and taking the lead and losing it on that.
Whattya mean you quit? :p

[Dutch]

Initial Impressions:

1. The game is very nice looking, but it still will take some time to get used to it. Lots of information, but that may just be initial shock that wears off as you learn the ropes. And yes, I haven't had an epileptic seizure, but the white fonts on the dark screen are tougher than I expected. Not showstopping however.

2. I do like the strong emphasis on linear gameplay. (The left-hand pane) That should keep you focused on what you should be doing when you return to the game after an absence. I understand that folks who play the heck out of the game are not going to care about that, but for casual players, I'll bet it's very useful.

3. Observation - The sim to next week in the initial stages is oddly placed. It should be available on the primary game window, not tucked away on another screen.

4. The Play-by-Play for games is great. I love it! Obviously, the actual wording needs to be refined. I want it to read more like a professional telecast than a color commentator. That may just be me, but it sounds corny when the guy says "The SS charged up and gave the WR Alligator Arms!" I like the detail, but not the emotion, I think I'll end up knowing when to be emotional more than the PBP. A simple, "The SS was looking to make a big hit on that play. The WR looked nervous and may have taken his eye off the ball in anticipation of getting hit by the SS." Then I can scream, "W00T! WR's got Alligator Arms!"

5. The scoring has issues. Here's the box score from the Air Force/Army's first game. (Extra-Points counting for 3 and taking time off the clock.)

http://www.explodinghouse.net/BBCF/extrapoints.png

6. The QB for Army is named Stallings. This is an obvious typo that needs to be fixed. :)

That's as far as I've gotten (Game #1). So far, I like the game and think it can be a lot of fun once the bugs are worked out. While I feel much more confident in TCY's box scores I realize that this is BBCF 1.0 (if that) and I am so far very impressed. In order to support the effort, I know I'll be picking up a copy when it's ready for release.

[DaddyTorgo]

he means he quit b/c of the error in the game engine

[MizzouRah]

he means he quit b/c of the error in the game engine
Ok, I need to go to bed.

[dervack]

nevermind, I'm done with this...

[DaddyTorgo]

Arles...anyway we could get an e-mail inviting us to our bowl game? That'd be nice, especially so we could see what week we are playing in in terms of bowl games. Or is there a list already in-game that I just can't find for the current year?

[jbmagic]

Uh, yeah you were, but what fucking ever. Apparently :D means nothing to you.


no i wasnt. show me where i was talking about grammar?

The play by play really needs to be cleaned up. Spelling mistakes, no spaces between certain words, wrong description for the play, etc.

i was talking about how play by play are all not getting recorded when viewing the play by play log. look at the time of possession from one play to the next. and the downs and yards from one play to the next.

example 1:


Louisiana-Monroe ball, Q1, 1-10-ULM9 (14:40) 0-0
Offense: Short Pass, Set: Shotgun, Play: SG-SE-slants (short pass)
Defense: Normal, Set: Nickel, Play: Nickel-norm-TMan (normal)
QB W. Bender completes a 6 yard cross to WR P. Peelle (SS R. Polamalu, ILB C. Townsell).

Louisiana-Monroe ball, Q1, 2-9-ULM38 (13:16) 0-0
Offense: Short Pass, Set: Pro Set, Play: PS-HB-curls (short pass)
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: Nickel, Play: Nickel-pass-Man-B10 (target pass)
QB W. Bender completes a 9 yard hook to RB M. Stachelski (SS R. Polamalu).


example 2

San Diego State ball, Q1, 3-3-SDSU40 (09:09) 0-7
Offense: Short Pass, Set: I Form, Play: I-SE-curls (short pass)
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: Dime, Play: Dime-pass-MZ (target pass)
QB C. Boiman completes a 9 yard hook to WR S. Archibald (OOB).

San Diego State ball, Q1, 2-8-ULM49 (08:25) 0-7
Offense: Medium Pass, Set: I Form, Play: I-FL-post-TE-out (med pass)
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: 3-4, Play: 34-pass-Man-B7 (target pass)
QB C. Boiman completes a 2 yard post to WR S. Archibald (ILB C. Caldwell).

[sovereignstar]

Jesus H. Christ. Let's not lose our boots over this one.

[Leonidas]

Rather than post in a whole new topic, I thought I'd toss this in here -- this was posted in the Grey Dog forum, but I know not everyone looks over there. My apologies for those who may have already read this:

I've always loved the online leagues -- from my first league using FPS Pro to FOF. I've wanted the chance to participate in an actual college league, and since this game is soon to be upon us, I've decided to go ahead and begin the process of creating a league for players of Bowl Bound.

The website is yet to be set up, but if you're interested in participating, go to the newly setup forums HERE (http://ncaacfl.org/smf) and register, talk about what you would like to see in the league and grab up your favorite team! It's my hope to, along with good dedicated players, to make this a fun, enjoyable league for many years to come.

Anyway, please stop by, and again, thanks for this fantastic game. :-)

Eric
www.ncaacfl.org (http://www.ncaacfl.org/)
<!-- / message -->
I'm just getting a blankpage on your link

[Icy]

I'm just drooling at the reports and utilities I'll be able to write given that this is an Access database and VS.NET 2005 comes with some sweet tools that make it trivial to read from an Access data source...
And i'm drooling about the reports and utillities that you will create :D

[WVUFAN]

Yeah, I accidentally screwed up my nameserver. :-) Should be fixed in an hour or so ...

right now it's just a forum, as there isn't content for a page yet. I'm going to be using Mambo CMS, as I've discovered CMS's are a much more efficient way of running a sports league.

Sorry about that. Please check in an hour or so. :-)

[Icy]

Yeah, I accidentally screwed up my nameserver. :-) Should be fixed in an hour or so ...

right now it's just a forum, as there isn't content for a page yet. I'm going to be using Mambo CMS, as I've discovered CMS's are a much more efficient way of running a sports league.

Sorry about that. Please check in an hour or so. :-)
Good choice, Mambo is what i use for the DKBL website:
http://www.prodeportes.com/dkbl/

[cthomer5000]

1. Not enough stress on class year in the roster view, IMHO. It's kind of straining to look for that piece of info buried in the like the 5th or 6th column of a player.

2. Player pages. Looking at a page of numbers makes me realize just how genius the ratings bars of FOF are. In FOF I've become quite accustomed to having a sort of "footprint" im looking for on a player by position. I can breeze through the QBs in a free agency list waiting for certain visual elements to jump out at me. Here I have to look at a lot of numbers, and mentally analyze them before I can decide what type of player im looking at.

[bhlloy]

44-9 Florida over LSU with 7:53 left in the 4th. The suspense is pretty much out of this one, I just hope I get the bump to #1/#2 after this. I want to end a season @ #1 and see how well I can do recruiting then, cuz the season I actually ended at #2 or #3 I did really horrible in recruiting. And that might be a problem somewhat Arles...I'm talking of all the guys i went hard after (and this is as the #2/#3 team in the country, lost in the championship game by 6 points or something)...I got ONE of them. And this was guys with 10 interest in coming to Michigan that I spent max money on through the entire recruiting process...methinks a little tweaking might need to be done.

That's kind of ironic because a LOT of five star guys I went after with USC went to one of two schools, Michigan and Oregon State. They had absolutely monster classes. My problem was I didn't recruit the 4 star guys hard enough, and after the 5 stars were off the board (I did manage to land 5, so not too bad) I didn't get another player. Even three star guys I was interested at the end turned me down flat. I can live with that as I was up against schools they were talking to the whole time.

However, I do think maybe Arlie needs to look at the number of players committing early. I think nearly 15 5 star guys in each of my two games have committed in the first week, with most following in the second and almost none left after the third week. This may need tweaking because it's taking some of the fun out of it. I don't know if others are seeing the same thing, of course 2 games is a very small sample size.

[Ben E Lou]

1. Not enough stress on class year in the roster view, IMHO. It's kind of straining to look for that piece of info buried in the like the 5th or 6th column of a player.I had that problem at first, but after a while, it became not that big of deal, because now I know exactly where to look. However, it sure would be nice if there was a screen with position, class and Ovr/Pot right next to one another. Such a screen would be great for giving a quick look at where we stand at each position in terms of recruiting needs.
2. Player pages. Looking at a page of numbers makes me realize just how genius the ratings bars of FOF are. In FOF I've become quite accustomed to having a sort of "footprint" im looking for on a player by position. I can breeze through the QBs in a free agency list waiting for certain visual elements to jump out at me. Here I have to look at a lot of numbers, and mentally analyze them before I can decide what type of player im looking at.Can't argue with you there. The bars are a very nice time-saver in FOF.

[cthomer5000]

Right now the biggest negative for me is sim speed. I absolutely have to have a second activity going while playing, because it takes a pretty decent chunk of time to sim a single week. And Im running on a P4 with 2 gigs of RAM.

[cthomer5000]

Week 8 and my 3-2 Air Force squad is favored by 13 over #8 BYU (6-0). http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/confused.gif

edit: I guess the oddsmakers knew something I didn't. We win 20-6. Yet somehow BYU only drops 3 places in the rankings.

[cthomer5000]

Ok, some serious issues with the polling. BYU was #8 at 6-0. After losing to three straight unranked teams them are now at 13th in the meida poll and 17th in the coaches poll. No chance they would still be ranked in real life.

[Ben E Lou]

Ok, some serious issues with the polling. BYU was #8 at 6-0. After losing to three straight unranked teams them are now at 13th in the meida poll and 17th in the coaches poll. No chance they would still be ranked in real life.Yeah. I noticed the same thing in my dynasty thread (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7930&page=1&pp=15). Arlie has acknowledged that there is a polling issue, and is looking at it.

[cthomer5000]

Yeah, i'm probably pointing out of a lot of the obvious at this point, but this has been my first chance to really spend some time with the game. Overall I have to say I'm intersted. Haven't come across any show-stoppers yet.

[Ben E Lou]

Yeah, i'm probably pointing out of a lot of the obvious at this point, but this has been my first chance to really spend some time with the game.Well, you never know what could have been missed. When I first got the beta, I found some stuff that I thought would have been "obvious," too, but I got the impression I was the first one to mention it. Ya never know.

[cthomer5000]

aww shit. Run time error at the end of the regular season. http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/frown.gif

After restart I've got to back up 3 games. Cant wait to see if the error occurs again.

[cthomer5000]

Ok, I'm guessing my file was somehow corrupted during that crash. Now when I go to sim games it just says "storing stats" and moves onto the next week. It's simply ignored my Week 13 and 14 games, while now saying we're in Week 15.

In fact no one has played a game the last two weeks now... and they're listed on theteam schedules as if they were upcoming. Just for curiosity's sake im simming through Week 15.

So, has anyone else had a similar problem?

http://somethingwithanh.com/fofc/BBCF_RTE.png

[GrantDawg]

Well, you never know what could have been missed. When I first got the beta, I found some stuff that I thought would have been "obvious," too, but I got the impression I was the first one to mention it. Ya never know.

Yeah, I've only be in one beta, but I do think there is a tendency to say "that's so obvious the programmer must know" or "someones probably reported this." That's another reason why this type of demo beta is such a good idea.

[cthomer5000]

I reported that bug at GreyDog. On another reload things appear to be back to normal (so far).

edit: spoke waaaaay too soon on that. my save game appears to be totally f***ed. Now i'll never know if RB Sultan Simms could get it done in our bowl game!

[21C]

Ok, some serious issues with the polling. BYU was #8 at 6-0. After losing to three straight unranked teams them are now at 13th in the meida poll and 17th in the coaches poll. No chance they would still be ranked in real life. I think that this would be one of the most difficult things to get right in a computer program. That's why there is such a big deal made out of the computer rankings in the past for the BCS and how it got it wrong. These days, the BCS uses the human rankings ( Harris and Coaches ) as part of the equation.

Humans can look at a poll and know if it seems right. It would be damn hard to come up with an algorithm that models this correctly. Three teams with 9-1 records have varying reasons why one is better than another - strength of schedule, records against ranked opponents and when each team got that loss - like early or late in the season. That's a lot of If-Then-Else statements.

[cody8200]

That's kind of ironic because a LOT of five star guys I went after with USC went to one of two schools, Michigan and Oregon State. They had absolutely monster classes. My problem was I didn't recruit the 4 star guys hard enough, and after the 5 stars were off the board (I did manage to land 5, so not too bad) I didn't get another player. Even three star guys I was interested at the end turned me down flat. I can live with that as I was up against schools they were talking to the whole time.

However, I do think maybe Arlie needs to look at the number of players committing early. I think nearly 15 5 star guys in each of my two games have committed in the first week, with most following in the second and almost none left after the third week. This may need tweaking because it's taking some of the fun out of it. I don't know if others are seeing the same thing, of course 2 games is a very small sample size.

Try playing with a bad team. I play as Indiana. No matter what you dont get a recruit until at least week 12 or 13 in the recruing stage.

[GrantDawg]

Alright. Going crazy now. I'm sitting here, after having looked through every job board I can find, trying to find a game to distract me. I'm just not in the mood for anything but this game, but replaying one season over and over again is annoying.

[bhlloy]

Try playing with a bad team. I play as Indiana. No matter what you dont get a recruit until at least week 12 or 13 in the recruing stage.

This is kind of my point. It shouldn't be "good teams get good players in weeks 8-10, then the bad teams pick up the poorer players in weeks 12-17" That's not how it is in real life, and it's not a fun implementation IMO.

But, nobody else seems to have this problem so maybe it's just bugging me :p

[GrantDawg]

Let me ask this...does weight really matter in this game. My guess (and hope) is it does, but I'm noticing something odd about how my team's weight is distributed. It seems like most of my DE outweigh my DT when it should be the opposite. The same is true of ILB and OLB. Am I wrong that ILB's will generally be bigger than the outside guys? I've seen this consistently, but just as an example of my current ILB's (for UGA) not a single one weighs 230 pounds or higher (and one weighs 218), whereas there is only two olb that doesn't weigh more than 230 with one starter weighing 245.

Now, it doesn't look totally off because I often see seniors at DT or ILB playing at heavier weights than I see the outside players, but it seems like most of my outside guys are fat and inside guys are thin.

[GrantDawg]

Let me take that back just an inch. I do have one ILB at 233, but I also have another at 216 (that is two ILB at below 220).

[chinaski]

at least the injuries are realistic http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


RB R.J. Justice is really hampered by an injury to his Other (Gunshot Wound). He could play as an absolute last resort, but we would strongly advise against it.

[CraigSca]

Arles,

Any confirmation on the fact there "seem" to be too many upsets and too few 0 or 1-loss teams? Are you seeing this?

[nfg22]

Well...most of you know all this but I am going to mention a few things.

I have played two seasons now. Just testing it out. The first thing I notice, is that this game has the potential to be tedious. With the people getting suspended and distributing class hours every few weeks. Second the rankings are messed. I beat the number 2 team and I was ranked 4...They stayed at 2 and I went up to 3. Thats ridiculous. Second thing, since I was messing around I was trying to get over 700 yards a game and the one way to do this is onside kick, I tryed to onside prbably 100 times, seeing as I did it everytime I kicked off and I never once got it back. Bad luck? I think not. Also penalties on punts are not enforced correctly, they are being enforced to the oppisite team. On two point conversions againts me, I notice the other team has gotten 3 points because they opt for a field goal. Also recruting is way too tedious, I like the write ups on players and they way recruting is done but there needs to be some assisting function like TCY where you can let scouts sign your 3 star players because I dont like looking through 400 recruits...

All in all this has the potential to be way better than TCY, but it still needs some work.

[bhlloy]

Let me ask this...does weight really matter in this game. My guess (and hope) is it does, but I'm noticing something odd about how my team's weight is distributed. It seems like most of my DE outweigh my DT when it should be the opposite. The same is true of ILB and OLB. Am I wrong that ILB's will generally be bigger than the outside guys? I've seen this consistently, but just as an example of my current ILB's (for UGA) not a single one weighs 230 pounds or higher (and one weighs 218), whereas there is only two olb that doesn't weigh more than 230 with one starter weighing 245.

Now, it doesn't look totally off because I often see seniors at DT or ILB playing at heavier weights than I see the outside players, but it seems like most of my outside guys are fat and inside guys are thin.

To add to that... on my two games I've actually got into I have not had a running back over 200lb's, and I've had a couple under 200lbs who look (to me anyway) like they are decent power backs.

This makes me worry that weight is purely cosmetic, which I sincerely hope it isn't.

[jbmagic]

from Tim Plum at greydog forum.


Weight is not cosmetic its just one of the many factors taken into account, as someone that looked at height/weight very early on in the testing I can say that Arlie has done a good job

[GrantDawg]

from Tim Plum at greydog forum.

I would agree in general that Arles did a good job with it. It does seem to flip those positions a bit, though. I would say a huge amount, but just slightly.

[rexallllsc]

agreed. but one thing that seems kind of weird to me...the descriptions of "short/medium/long" passing play seem kind of arbitrary. More often than not I've seen short passes on say 3rd and 4 go for 11-12 yards, and medium passes for 30-40 yards. More often then they would if it was simply broken coverage...or maybe there just needs to be more of "and coverage broke down on that play" kinda PBP, because right now as it stands I could make a living just throwing short passes and never having to go to medium/long. Anyone else notice this?

Does the PbP tell you how many yards the WR goes for after the catch?

[DaddyTorgo]

Does the PbP tell you how many yards the WR goes for after the catch?
no. which is another possiblity/problem. I'm running a West Coast offense, so that could definately be part of it. But without the PBP telling me some more info i'm left just going "well it's 3rd and 8 i'm going to throw a short pass"

[Icy]

I have just noted your request and agree, just suggested to Arlie to add yards after catch to the pbp if possible.

[dubb93]

Some crazy things with the PBP such as running backs turning the corner and having a footrace to the endzone that ends in a 11 yard gain. I was expecting more, also these gems here...

Michigan State ball, Q2, 3-3-ND15 (00:39) 10-14
Offense: Short Pass, Set: Pro Set, Play: PS-HB-screen (short pass)
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: 4-2-5, Play: 425-pass-MZ (target pass)

The OL lets the defense through - it's a screen. QB Lynn Luzar throws it up for grabs to avoid the sack. RB Weldon Chavous pulls it in for a minimal gain as he gets dumped by OLB Arnaz Knief.MIST: Gain of 7 on the play.

I actually thought we had them stopped when it said minimal gain, then it unloads gain of 7 on me.

And then there is this confusing one...

Michigan State ball, Q1, 1-10-MIST35 (13:45) 7-0

Cie Calloway gets ready to kick, It's in the air, and comes down to Hoby Calloway.He'll be brought down at around the 2.

Reading that you really have no clue what the heck happened but it was an 88 yard kickoff return down to the 2.

[streetballer22]

I played four weeks and everything was fun untill I started paying closer attention to the polls. That really runined it for me but I'm that by the final version this will be tweaked and fixed. Seems like it has quite a bit of potential.

[dubb93]

I'm putting the game up b/c it is unplayable for me right now. Hopefully he'll update the beta.

I played a total of 3 games, won 1(the only 1 that didn't envolve some stupid error) and lost the other 2. The latest disaster was an overtime loss @ Nebraska. It took everything they had to put it into overtime including scoring a TD in the 3rd quarter, attempting to go for 2, getting a penalty and being set up at 1st and goal again. Several plays later and they were in the end zone again for another TD. This time, instead of going for 2 they decide to kick a field goal and just make it a 15 point swing.

[bhlloy]

Some crazy things with the PBP such as running backs turning the corner and having a footrace to the endzone that ends in a 11 yard gain. I was expecting more, also these gems here...

Michigan State ball, Q2, 3-3-ND15 (00:39) 10-14
Offense: Short Pass, Set: Pro Set, Play: PS-HB-screen (short pass)
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: 4-2-5, Play: 425-pass-MZ (target pass)

The OL lets the defense through - it's a screen. QB Lynn Luzar throws it up for grabs to avoid the sack. RB Weldon Chavous pulls it in for a minimal gain as he gets dumped by OLB Arnaz Knief.MIST: Gain of 7 on the play.

I actually thought we had them stopped when it said minimal gain, then it unloads gain of 7 on me.

And then there is this confusing one...

Michigan State ball, Q1, 1-10-MIST35 (13:45) 7-0

Cie Calloway gets ready to kick, It's in the air, and comes down to Hoby Calloway.He'll be brought down at around the 2.

Reading that you really have no clue what the heck happened but it was an 88 yard kickoff return down to the 2.

I feel a bit pedantic complaining about the PBP because as long as it gives good stats (which it does) I don't really care.

But my personal favourite is calling streaks out of whatever formation, hearing the tight end or reciever (usually the TE) has a step on his defender and then the pass being complete for less than 5 yards. Not quite what I had in mind when I called the play :)

[Ben E Lou]

Obviously, for a quick summary, there is the team summary area at the bottom of the screen that is always visible. There also is an expectations screen available under the roster menu item during the camp stage, and a Team Info screen available also under the roster menu item once the season starts.

I think this is the info you're looking for: it contains the expectations for the year, full schedule and results to date, team strengths and weaknesses, roster breakdown, team overview and a team almanac.Here's what you can't get from BBCF right now that needs to be added....

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=60050#post60050

I've left off some stuff that needs to be in there, such as current record, overall ranking, all defensive stats, and overall scoring defense (which doesn't appear to be in the game for some reason, and needs to be added).

[Galaril]

I have just noted your request and agree, just suggested to Arlie to add yards after catch to the pbp if possible.


It is already recorded in the post game summary emails film reports. So, it shouldn't be hard to add it to the stats.

[Arles]

Arles...anyway we could get an e-mail inviting us to our bowl game? That'd be nice, especially so we could see what week we are playing in in terms of bowl games. Or is there a list already in-game that I just can't find for the current year?
yeah, the beta team's been after me to add this in as well. It will be in the final version.

[Arles]

Player pages. Looking at a page of numbers makes me realize just how genius the ratings bars of FOF are. In FOF I've become quite accustomed to having a sort of "footprint" im looking for on a player by position. I can breeze through the QBs in a free agency list waiting for certain visual elements to jump out at me. Here I have to look at a lot of numbers, and mentally analyze them before I can decide what type of player im looking at.
You can look at the image of the player to the left on the player card and see his overall. The bright image shows his current ability and the background image shows his potential. It should be able to give you a general idea of how good a player is.

[Arles]

However, I do think maybe Arlie needs to look at the number of players committing early. I think nearly 15 5 star guys in each of my two games have committed in the first week, with most following in the second and almost none left after the third week. This may need tweaking because it's taking some of the fun out of it. I don't know if others are seeing the same thing, of course 2 games is a very small sample size.
I'll check this out. But, the logic is that (just in real life) many of the 3 and 4 star guys wait to see where the studs go. IE, if I am a 4-star RB and really want to go to michigan, but see they have a 5-star on their list ahead of me. I would probably wait and see where the 5-star guy goes before committing. If he goes to another school, perhaps I choose Michigan. If he goes to Michigan, I probably look elsewhere. So, I think having that order overall makes sense. however, I do agree that too many guys seem to commit after just a week or two. I will look into this.

[Ben E Lou]

You can look at the image of the player to the left on the player card and see his overall. The bright image shows his current ability and the background image shows his potential. It should be able to give you a general idea of how good a player is.I think what Ct is getting at isn't having a general idea, but specifics. If I'm looking for, say, a run-stopping DE in FOF, I can very rapidly scroll through (using keyboard shortcuts, not just the mouse--faster) the list of DE's until I see that long run-stopping bar. It is even more helpful when looking for, say, a WR who is good at route running AND catching. Rather than reading both numbers, I can go through the list rapidly until I see the bars I'm looking for. It isn't something that could be added at this point, I don't think, but is definitely worth other text sim developers looking at for future games.

[Arles]

dola, as to the polls. One of the problem was that the movement between weeks was limited because of issues early on regarding "poll instability" (ie, a team ranked No. 2 in week 2 loses to low SOS opponenet and falls to #35). However, this move limited the movement later in the season when the sample size is enough to allow for it (like the BYU example above). I am working on some fixes for it as we speak and it should make things a little more realistic.

[Arles]

I think what Ct is getting at isn't having a general idea, but specifics. If I'm looking for, say, a run-stopping DE in FOF, I can very rapidly scroll through (using keyboard shortcuts, not just the mouse--faster) the list of DE's until I see that long run-stopping bar. It is even more helpful when looking for, say, a WR who is good at route running AND catching. Rather than reading both numbers, I can go through the list rapidly until I see the bars I'm looking for. It isn't something that could be added at this point, I don't think, but is definitely worth other text sim developers looking at for future games.
Ah, OK. There is a "player type" right next to the image. Perhaps I should make the font on that bigger/bold it. IE, you see a 3.5/5.0 DT that's a "Run Stopper" and it gets you similar information.

[Ben E Lou]

Ah, OK. There is a "player type" right next to the image. Perhaps I should make the font on that bigger/bold it. IE, you see a 3.5/5.0 DT that's a "Run Stopper" and it gets you similar information.Making that info larger would help.

[Anthony]

I think what Ct is getting at isn't having a general idea, but specifics. If I'm looking for, say, a run-stopping DE in FOF, I can very rapidly scroll through (using keyboard shortcuts, not just the mouse--faster) the list of DE's until I see that long run-stopping bar. It is even more helpful when looking for, say, a WR who is good at route running AND catching. Rather than reading both numbers, I can go through the list rapidly until I see the bars I'm looking for.

but is that realistic? you do realize that actual scouts don't have a cheat sheet when looking at FA's that lets them automatically know which FA DT is rated "88" at stopping the run (that is, "88"=fantastic) and which are rated "42" ("42" being just under average). they don't have those hard thumbprints on every player that makes them know exactly who to target. they don't have the benefits of looking at bars and saying "you 8 guys over there, it says here in my clipboard your bars in run stopping are less than 40, and i'm looking for guys with bars over 80, so i won't even bother looking at you guys. rather, i'm just going to concentrate on these 3 guys over here who are rated VG in run stopping."

if only if was that easy. i like FOF's way of doing it, and i welcome a different approach. i don't know how you could expect Arles to make his game just like Jim's. i welcome change every now and then. sure, i have to analyze players a little more deeper now, but with no trading in college football and no free agency your duties as a college coach are diminished as it is.

[Ajaxab]

This would likely be something that could potentially work in mp, but would anyone else like to be able to vote in the coaches' poll? Obviously, there would be accountability issues to deal with and it's unlikely that it could ever appear in this year's iteration of the game, but it might do more towards immersion in the game.

[Ben E Lou]

but is that realistic? you do realize that actual scouts don't have a cheat sheet when looking at FA's that lets them automatically know which FA DT is rated "88" at stopping the run (that is, "88"=fantastic) and which are rated "42" ("42" being just under average). they don't have those hard thumbprints on every player that makes them know exactly who to target. they don't have the benefits of looking at bars and saying "you 8 guys over there, it says here in my clipboard your bars in run stopping are less than 40, and i'm looking for guys with bars over 80, so i won't even bother looking at you guys. rather, i'm just going to concentrate on these 3 guys over here who are rated VG in run stopping."

if only if was that easy. i like FOF's way of doing it, and i welcome a different approach. i don't know how you could expect Arles to make his game just like Jim's. i welcome change every now and then. sure, i have to analyze players a little more deeper now, but with no trading in college football and no free agency your duties as a college coach are diminished as it is.We've been over this before. In real life, scouts have TONNNNNSSS more information than we do in any text sim; they get to watch film, watch guys practice, etc. There has to be some form of abstraction of that information, or the game is going to have to produce hours and hours of film for every player. ;) I'm not looking for a game "just like Jim's," and nowhere did I say that, either. I've mentioned ideas from FBCB, FOF, and even OOTP that could be helpful. No point in re-inventing the wheel.

[cthomer5000]

I think what Ct is getting at isn't having a general idea, but specifics. If I'm looking for, say, a run-stopping DE in FOF, I can very rapidly scroll through (using keyboard shortcuts, not just the mouse--faster) the list of DE's until I see that long run-stopping bar. It is even more helpful when looking for, say, a WR who is good at route running AND catching. Rather than reading both numbers, I can go through the list rapidly until I see the bars I'm looking for. It isn't something that could be added at this point, I don't think, but is definitely worth other text sim developers looking at for future games.
exactly. here's an example: I'm looking for a QB for a short and medium passing game, before taking a detalied look, there are very obvious visual cues for me:

http://somethingwithanh.com/fofc/qb_comparison.png

Now my point was really that i have a new-found respect for FOF/TCY. Without actually examining a player, I immediately have a quick impression by seeing the "footprint" of how their skills are laid out. I'm sure consciously or subconsciously we all have certain sills we're looking for from certain players. So a lot of guys jump out as immediately looking right or looking wrong. It's easy to know when a guy warrants a closer look.

[bhlloy]

I'll check this out. But, the logic is that (just in real life) many of the 3 and 4 star guys wait to see where the studs go. IE, if I am a 4-star RB and really want to go to michigan, but see they have a 5-star on their list ahead of me. I would probably wait and see where the 5-star guy goes before committing. If he goes to another school, perhaps I choose Michigan. If he goes to Michigan, I probably look elsewhere. So, I think having that order overall makes sense. however, I do agree that too many guys seem to commit after just a week or two. I will look into this.

That would be excellent Arles. I appreciate the logic behind it, would just be nice to see some of the top guys take a few more visits and the process stringed out a little before they commit.

[albionmoonlight]

Is there a way to set a "base" gameplan for all situations and then just be able to tweak it for special situations (red zone, leading by >14, etc.)? I tried to set a gameplan where everything was set to "no preference," but the game seemed to ignore that.

There is a lot of gameplan to micromanage--which I like. But I would also like to be able to play all situations off of a base gameplan, rather than have to go into each specific option to build each one from scratch.

[theclassic]

I think the bars are realistic. First the bars are just an indication of what your scout thinks a player is rated, not actual ratings. Second I'm sure scouts put their personal ratings into tables and etc., so they can have an easy glance over of their information, or so that the front office can get the same glance over.

With that said though, I like going by actual game statistics to rate players, then to focus just on the bars. Which is often done in Front Office games.

[GrantDawg]

I always hated the bars, and personally like what Arles has done for the most part. I would love to have filtered searches and such (ala FM).

[MizzouRah]

That's why I loved FPS Football so much, you have ratings AND you get to see them perform on the field. That series is still ahead of football games today.

[GrantDawg]

That's why I loved FPS Football so much, you have ratings AND you get to see them perform on the field. That series is still ahead of football games today.

Agreed.

[Galaril]

Is there a way to set a "base" gameplan for all situations and then just be able to tweak it for special situations (red zone, leading by >14, etc.)? I tried to set a gameplan where everything was set to "no preference," but the game seemed to ignore that.

There is a lot of gameplan to micromanage--which I like. But I would also like to be able to play all situations off of a base gameplan, rather than have to go into each specific option to build each one from scratch.


I second this. It would take away some of the micromanaging of gameplans when time is not abundant for some of us. This would be ahuge help.

[Arles]

The gameplan issue of ignoring the no preference will be fixed. I'm working on that now.

[Ben E Lou]

For the most part, I like the AI suggestions for starters, in terms of current vs. future. For example, the AI is suggesting that I start my 63/84 Sophomore at SS over my 66/66 Senior, but my 67/67 Sr. OLB is suggested over my 54/73 red-shirt freshman.

[Ben E Lou]

Oh yeah, and count me in as someone who wants some sort of "lock" button...and also as someone who'd like to see the AI suggestions change according to philosophy. The #4 QB on my depth chart is clearly the one best suited to run the option attack. I have to manually put him at #1.

[Vince]

exactly. here's an example: I'm looking for a QB for a short and medium passing game, before taking a detalied look, there are very obvious visual cues for me:

http://somethingwithanh.com/fofc/qb_comparison.png

Now my point was really that i have a new-found respect for FOF/TCY. Without actually examining a player, I immediately have a quick impression by seeing the "footprint" of how their skills are laid out. I'm sure consciously or subconsciously we all have certain sills we're looking for from certain players. So a lot of guys jump out as immediately looking right or looking wrong. It's easy to know when a guy warrants a closer look.
Is that Curtis Corbett on the right?

[GrantDawg]

Oh yeah, and count me in as someone who wants some sort of "lock" button...and also as someone who'd like to see the AI suggestions change according to philosophy. The #4 QB on my depth chart is clearly the one best suited to run the option attack. I have to manually put him at #1.

Furtther, there needs to be an injury indicator on that page. If there is an easy wat to tell if the player is injured, I haven't seen it.

[jonesz]

One issue that is kind of getting at me right now is the lack of plays to choose from. More plays would definitely be beneficial as I get bored calling the same plays all of the time. It seems that, at the very least, every play should have a right and left option. Anyone know if more plays will be introduced as part of the final game?

[Anthony]

maybe in a future version Arlie can make it so that the better your Coach or OC is the more defensive plays you get. perhaps a rookie HC or OC should start out with a basic set of plays, and only after they've been around for a bit will you get more plays to choose from.

[MizzouRah]

I haven't played the demo yet, but I assume you can let your coach call the plays and let the pbp roll by, ala FOF and TCY?

[VPI97]

Is it just my system or does it take forever to sim a week?

[Joe]

Is it just my system or does it take forever to sim a week?

I think it sims in real time

[CraigSca]

It takes a long time to sim this stuff - why? because of the Access database. Ah, the good ol' days of FOF and TCY. I HATE the fact that all these newer text sims take so long to sim a week/game/etc.

[sovereignstar]

I haven't played the demo yet, but I assume you can let your coach call the plays and let the pbp roll by, ala FOF and TCY?

I don't believe you can, ala EHM and FM.

[cthomer5000]

Is it just my system or does it take forever to sim a week?
Yeah, i mentioned it earlier but the sim time is pretty annoying. I'm running on a blazing system and it probably takes 2 minutes to sim a week.

[cthomer5000]

Is that Curtis Corbett on the right?
Yep. And I almost forget who is on the left. Either Brad Keil or Vinnie Simmons I think. http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Vince]

Yep. And I almost forget who is on the left. Either Brad Keil or Vinnie Simmons I think. http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/smile.gif
Good times :)

[Ben E Lou]

Yeah, i mentioned it earlier but the sim time is pretty annoying. I'm running on a blazing system and it probably takes 2 minutes to sim a week.On my new system, with the most recent build...

<table> <tbody> <tr> <td>Name</td> <td>Size</td> <td>Type</td> <td>Date Modified</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueLeaders2005</td> <td>4 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 12:01 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueLeaders2006</td> <td>4 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 12:34 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueLeaders2007</td> <td>4 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 1:08 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueLeaders2008</td> <td>4 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 1:43 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueLeaders2009</td> <td>4 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 2:22 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueLeaders2010</td> <td>4 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 3:09 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueLeaders2011</td> <td>4 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 4:01 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueLeaders2012</td> <td>4 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 4:47 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueStats2005</td> <td>2 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 12:01 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueStats2006</td> <td>2 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 12:34 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueStats2007</td> <td>2 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 1:08 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueStats2008</td> <td>2 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 1:43 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueStats2009</td> <td>2 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 2:21 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueStats2010</td> <td>2 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 3:09 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueStats2011</td> <td>2 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 4:00 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueStats2012</td> <td>2 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 4:47 AM</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[Anthony]

On my new system, with the most recent build...

<table> <tbody> <tr> <td>Name</td> <td>Size</td> <td>Type</td> <td>Date Modified</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueLeaders2005</td> <td>4 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 12:01 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueLeaders2006</td> <td>4 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 12:34 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueLeaders2007</td> <td>4 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 1:08 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueLeaders2008</td> <td>4 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 1:43 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueLeaders2009</td> <td>4 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 2:22 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueLeaders2010</td> <td>4 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 3:09 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueLeaders2011</td> <td>4 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 4:01 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueLeaders2012</td> <td>4 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 4:47 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueStats2005</td> <td>2 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 12:01 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueStats2006</td> <td>2 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 12:34 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueStats2007</td> <td>2 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 1:08 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueStats2008</td> <td>2 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 1:43 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueStats2009</td> <td>2 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 2:21 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueStats2010</td> <td>2 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 3:09 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueStats2011</td> <td>2 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 4:00 AM</td></tr> <tr> <td>LeagueStats2012</td> <td>2 KB</td> <td>Text Document</td> <td>11/22/2005 4:47 AM</td></tr></tbody> </table>

hmmm, that is rather long for a 15, 16 game season. still shorter than simming FM, but 30 minutes per season is a tad longish.

[CraigSca]

Notice also that, as the seasons "roll" by, it gets progressively longer to sim a season.

[cthomer5000]

so are seasons going to take longer and longer to sim as well? they were moving past the high 30s into the 40s in that list there.

[gstelmack]

Actually it went from 52 minutes to 46 minutes between the next-to-last and the last sim up there.

[Ben E Lou]

My guess is that the extra time is primarily in the stats saving/rollover times. It hasn't been that bothersome to me, but then again, I usually have the laptop on the desk also. I surf, respond to e-mail, etc. while it is simming a week. I'm fairly certain it would be annoying if I didn't have another machine right here.

...but then again, FBPro would take like 25 minutes to sim one week. :eek:

[spleen1015]

Ben, is that just simming, no interaction?

[Ben E Lou]

Ben, is that just simming, no interaction?I don't have the mental energy to interact from midnight to 4:30am.

[Toddiec]

I haven't played the demo yet, but I assume you can let your coach call the plays and let the pbp roll by, ala FOF and TCY?


Yeah, you can let the coaches call the plays and let the text roll by. You can also call the plays and there is a "Suggest" button or something like that where the coaches will suggest the play they want to call.

[Anthony]

I don't have the mental energy to interact from midnight to 4:30am.

wait, so you have the same version we do, the only difference being you can sim multiple seasons and we can only sim one, right?

[lighthousekeeper]

It takes a long time to sim this stuff - why? because of the Access database. Ah, the good ol' days of FOF and TCY. I HATE the fact that all these newer text sims take so long to sim a week/game/etc.


Reminds me of this thread:

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=41731

So far the game is great. I just feel that using Access as the db engine is short-sighted for creating a sim game that will likely hold tons of MB of information and is aiming to be best-of-breed in the industry.

[CraigSca]

Personally, I've strived to keep the majority of data in RAM and then only use a database (preferably your own) for odd events (e.g. like a change in roster and therefore a change in statistics tracking) because I think the ability to quick sim is paramount in any game I'd like to play (YMMV).

Then again, I've never written anything that's seen the light of day, so take it for what it's worth.

[MizzouRah]

Yeah, you can let the coaches call the plays and let the text roll by. You can also call the plays and there is a "Suggest" button or something like that where the coaches will suggest the play they want to call.
Great, I might have to install this puppy... well, right after I install COD 2. :)

[CraigSca]

Reminds me of this thread:

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=41731

So far the game is great. I just feel that using Access as the db engine is short-sighted for creating a sim game that will likely hold tons of MB of information and is aiming to be best-of-breed in the industry.
I think people like the ability to be able to use Access becauase it's open, and therefore they can do anything with the game they like. However, beyond changing helmets and team names (and the possibility to create your own seasons), I'm not sure there's a true benefit to using it. All of this can be done without Access and the inherent slowness of a monster database.

When I was programming Franchise Baseball I cut sim times by 80% by doing it in RAM, rather than writing to a database each and every atbat. When you have up to five classes of baseball all playing games, it was quite nice to reduce sim times from 1 min 25 secs per day to 15 seconds. Sure, I lost the fact that I couldn't keep track of how many homeruns Joe Schmo hit off of Joe Blow in the month of September, but it was worth it to me.

[Ben E Lou]

wait, so you have the same version we do, the only difference being you can sim multiple seasons and we can only sim one, right?Basically, yes, although I think there were a few options disabled in the demo that are enabled in the beta. My understanding is that he took the most recent beta build and stripped off multi-season stuff to make the demo. I don't know if Arlie plans to update the demo as often as he updates the beta builds, but due to the holidays, the beta build and the demo are still essentially the same for now.

[Anthony]

i wonder how long it takes for a Commish to upload/sim a game week in a MP league. i wonder if it takes longer or if there's no noticeable lag between solo and MP modes.

[st.cronin]

I think the speed is ok at this point. I don't know what it will be like after 10-20 years of gameplay, but right now it's about as fast as EHM - which is plenty fast enough for a college football game.

The beta demo is better than I expected.

[Icy]

We in the beta team asked about sim times from the first versions and Arlie has improved it with each new beta version so maybe it can be improved a bit more. Anyway that 40 minutes per season (30 in my pc) are from preseason week 1 to the end of the season, recruiting, staff movement etc that i doubt any of us is going to autosim as we want to play in that stages. the only time we really need to wait not doing anything is betwen weekly sims, that take around 2 minutes, it' snot that we are going to sit for 40 minutes watching the screen processing a whole full season.

As some of you pointed, the problem is access and maybe also VB, of course a game written in C++ with it's own databases would be way faster, but also VB is way easier to use to program a good looking windows game, just think on the sims we know in C++ and in VB and compare interfaces. You can have an awesome interface in C++ too like FM, but it takes way more time and knowledge.

[spleen1015]

I think people like the ability to be able to use Access becauase it's open, and therefore they can do anything with the game they like. However, beyond changing helmets and team names (and the possibility to create your own seasons), I'm not sure there's a true benefit to using it. All of this can be done without Access and the inherent slowness of a monster database.

When I was programming Franchise Baseball I cut sim times by 80% by doing it in RAM, rather than writing to a database each and every atbat. When you have up to five classes of baseball all playing games, it was quite nice to reduce sim times from 1 min 25 secs per day to 15 seconds. Sure, I lost the fact that I couldn't keep track of how many homeruns Joe Schmo hit off of Joe Blow in the month of September, but it was worth it to me.

How long did it take to load all of that stuff into RAM then in turn write it to disk?

What's wrong with holding everything from the sim in RAM, then writing it to disk when the simming is over? Would it be faster to write it all at once rather than incrementally?

[CraigSca]

How long did it take to load all of that stuff into RAM then in turn write it to disk?

What's wrong with holding everything from the sim in RAM, then writing it to disk when the simming is over? Would it be faster to write it all at once rather than incrementally?
What I'm saying is, have all the data in RAM (yeah, there's a longer load up time and save time) rather than making every write incrementally to disk. I think people can tolerate longer loads and saves moreso than having the sim time and actual "play" time slow down.

[DaddyTorgo]

For the most part, I like the AI suggestions for starters, in terms of current vs. future. For example, the AI is suggesting that I start my 63/84 Sophomore at SS over my 66/66 Senior, but my 67/67 Sr. OLB is suggested over my 54/73 red-shirt freshman.
i don't have the same problem with this that you do really SD. I think this is reflective of the idea that you can't just bench your upperclassmen when you get some stud underclassmen, or nobody is going to want to come to your school for fear of being benched. So you play your 67/67 senior one more year while the freshman redshirts, and then you play the freshman.

[Ben E Lou]

i don't have the same problem with this that you do really SD. I think this is reflective of the idea that you can't just bench your upperclassmen when you get some stud underclassmen, or nobody is going to want to come to your school for fear of being benched. So you play your 67/67 senior one more year while the freshman redshirts, and then you play the freshman.But the freshman has already red-shirted. My point, though, was that I thought that was the *right* decision. In other words, if a younger guy is only a little worse current, with a brighter future, then start him. (Yeah, it might not be fully realistic, but it certainly makes the AI teams' players develop better, therefore increasing game difficulty.)

[DaddyTorgo]

But the freshman has already red-shirted. My point, though, was that I thought that was the *right* decision. In other words, if a younger guy is only a little worse current, with a brighter future, then start him. (Yeah, it might not be fully realistic, but it certainly makes the AI teams' players develop better, therefore increasing game difficulty.)
it makes the teams develop better in the short-term yes, but in the long term it would harm their recruiting.

[bhlloy]

One issue that is kind of getting at me right now is the lack of plays to choose from. More plays would definitely be beneficial as I get bored calling the same plays all of the time. It seems that, at the very least, every play should have a right and left option. Anyone know if more plays will be introduced as part of the final game?

I couldn't agree more with this. It sucks the number of formation/play type combinations that only have one play available. I think one of the prominent run based formations only has one inside HB run, and passing is often even worse.

More plays are probably too much to hope for in the full release (put it this way I wouldn't necessarily want to see the release delayed for this) but it would certainly be nice to see in a patch.

[kingfc22]

Ouch, just finished the season #2 in both polls and #3 in the GDS and I don't even get invited to a GDS bowl game.

[dervack]

Great, I might have to install this puppy... well, right after I install COD 2. :)
Well, no slight against Arlie, but yeah, instal COD2 ASAP. It's fucking awesome.

[kingfc22]

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but it would be nice to see awards listed on the player's card.

[cody8200]

Having played out 50 continous years (I'm on the beta team) I can say that the game doesnt get too much slower over that time span. The player cards still open fairly quickly even though the game keeps track of every single player in league history (something that is very very cool and that no other game has done in college sports).

[Galaril]

One issue that is kind of getting at me right now is the lack of plays to choose from. More plays would definitely be beneficial as I get bored calling the same plays all of the time. It seems that, at the very least, every play should have a right and left option. Anyone know if more plays will be introduced as part of the final game?


Arlie stated that he would add 5-6 plays mostly for balance issues related to options going to the left and palys for wingbacks to run. :D

[Arles]

I haven't played the demo yet, but I assume you can let your coach call the plays and let the pbp roll by, ala FOF and TCY?
Sure, just start the game and uncheck the "call plays" option. You can also watch other games play where you are not the coach.

[Arles]

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but it would be nice to see awards listed on the player's card.
They are listed on the HTML player card.

[Arles]

From a performance standpoint, the access database is trivial. Over 75% of the simming time inseason is spent on calling plays and adjusting the opponent in game - none of which involves any hits to the database. If your weekly sim takes 2 minutes, I would state that 90 seconds is taken up on plays, gameplans and in-game adjustments, 10 seconds on updating depth charts, 5 on text outputs for gamelogs and maybe 15 for storing stats (all that is stored) in the access DB.

I'm sure I am doing something silly that accounts for the slow-down on playcalling, I just haven't had the time to really investigate. But I've done sims where I call the same play for the AI on offense and defense every time - as well as do no in-game adjustments - and the sim goes from 80+ seconds to under 30 seconds. I'll try and look at it when I get a chance.

[Arles]

To expand, I did a test on a recent game. It took 1.25 seconds to sim the game, store the stats and update the screen. Out of that 1.25 seconds, here are the breakdowns:

0.28 seconds for database access in storing week and season stats
0.2 seconds for the setting of both depth charts, gameplans and strategies
0.3 seconds for all play calls
0.07 for text outputs
0.4 seconds for all other engine logic

So, the database access takes about 22% of the total sim time. The engine and playcalling take about 56% - and I will see if I can reduce that a little. We're dealing with fractions of seconds though, so it may also be a little dependent upon outside processes (ie Virus scanners and other apps) as well.

[spleen1015]

What I'm saying is, have all the data in RAM (yeah, there's a longer load up time and save time) rather than making every write incrementally to disk. I think people can tolerate longer loads and saves moreso than having the sim time and actual "play" time slow down.

I understand what you were saying. That's why I posed my second series of questions.

[Ben E Lou]

so it may also be a little dependent upon outside processes (ie Virus scanners and other apps) as well.FWIW, right before I left the house this morning, I started the latest build running with my machine stripped-down and unplugged. I disabled everything I could think of: antivirus, firewall, Windows Update, etc., unplugged from the internet, and started a long-term sim. I know that OOTP had a huge increase in sim time with everything disabled like this. I'm curious what will happen with BBCF. I'll be going by the house around 4:30 or so this afternoon. I'll update then, and then re-start it with everything enabled to see what difference it might make.

[Ben E Lou]

Guys, I must say that I just had an IM conversation with Arlie about performances of younger players that dang near had me reaching for the Kleenex. I'll let him reveal to the public what he wants, but suffice it to say that there's some good stuff going on under the hood, assuming it is all working properly (and it appears that it is). He explained some things going on with my dynasty team that looked to be concerning, but actually make perfect sense.

[gstelmack]

Guys, I must say that I just had an IM conversation with Arlie about performances of younger players that dang near had me reaching for the Kleenex. I'll let him reveal to the public what he wants, but suffice it to say that there's some good stuff going on under the hood, assuming it is all working properly (and it appears that it is). He explained some things going on with my dynasty team that looked to be concerning, but actually make perfect sense.
Ah yes, the dilemma of game design: doing really cool stuff under the hood, but having no easy way to tell the player what is going on without exposing too much and ruining the experience. Especially when all that cool stuff makes the user THINK there's a bug occurring, and potentially drops the game (as a beta tester, you reported the bug, but how would an end user feel if they found an issue with their dynasty that "concerned" them?), when in reality it's because something really cool is going on.

If there is cool player development happening that looks unusual, I hope he's got a way to communicate that to the player. E-mail reports, newspaper clippings, something that lets you know what's happening with the players.

[Ben E Lou]

Ah yes, the dilemma of game design: doing really cool stuff under the hood, but having no easy way to tell the player what is going on without exposing too much and ruining the experience. Especially when all that cool stuff makes the user THINK there's a bug occurring, and potentially drops the game (as a beta tester, you reported the bug, but how would an end user feel if they found an issue with their dynasty that "concerned" them?), when in reality it's because something really cool is going on.

If there is cool player development happening that looks unusual, I hope he's got a way to communicate that to the player. E-mail reports, newspaper clippings, something that lets you know what's happening with the players.Well, this is info that should *probably* be in the game manual, as it doesn't just impact some players, but pretty much every younger player.

Specifically, I was worried that the performance of my true freshman QB (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=60385&postcount=45) was a little too good. It turns out that there were some strong indicators that it should have been the case. I'm leaving the office right now and dropping by the house. I'm really curious to check and see if what Arlie predicted about the RB's on his team (that their performance would suffer) is the case. Painted with a broad brush and not getting into the intimate details, it turns out that (if player creation is working properly) I've got what should be a very rare player at QB....


has athleticism that normally only RB/CB/WR have
weighs over 220 pounds
should make bad decisions on keeping/pitching (I'll be checking to see if my RB's performed less-than-expected...)
but he's so big, strong and athletic that he makes plays on his own when he should have pitched the ball
I was worried that his stats were too good, but it turns out that he averaged .7 LESS ypc than did Vince Young as a true freshman.

[Balldog]

I'm not going to read 460 posts to see if this has been posted but....here is a bug!

Akron goes for two, but sets up for FG and is awarded 3-points for the 2-point conversion. A 9-point TD! Doh!

Akron ball, Q4, 1-8-OHST8 (00:20) 9-31
Offense: Medium Pass, Set: SingleBack, Play: SB-SE-slants (med pass)
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: Nickel, Play: Nickel-pass-Man-B5,6 (target pass)
QB D. Mularkey completes a 8 yard cross to WR R. Demaree ****Touchdown!*****

Akron ball, Q4, 1-0-OHST0 (00:14) 15-31
Dante McCormack converts the 21 yard field goal.

Akron ball, Q4, 1-10-AKR35 (00:07) 18-31
Dante McCormack Lines up for the onside kick! The opponent has their hands team out there.
The kick goes 18 yards and bounces around...[B] The Return Team Holds on to it. Trey Seurer ends up with it on the Ohio State 47.

[Ben E Lou]

I'm not going to read 460 posts to see if this has been posted but....here is a bug!

Akron goes for two, but sets up for FG and is awarded 3-points for the 2-point conversion. A 9-point TD! Doh!

Akron ball, Q4, 1-8-OHST8 (00:20) 9-31
Offense: Medium Pass, Set: SingleBack, Play: SB-SE-slants (med pass)
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: Nickel, Play: Nickel-pass-Man-B5,6 (target pass)
QB D. Mularkey completes a 8 yard cross to WR R. Demaree ****Touchdown!*****

Akron ball, Q4, 1-0-OHST0 (00:14) 15-31
Dante McCormack converts the 21 yard field goal.

Akron ball, Q4, 1-10-AKR35 (00:07) 18-31
Dante McCormack Lines up for the onside kick! The opponent has their hands team out there.
The kick goes 18 yards and bounces around...[B] The Return Team Holds on to it. Trey Seurer ends up with it on the Ohio State 47.Well-documented, and purported to be fixed in the latest build.

[MizzouRah]

Well, this is info that should *probably* be in the game manual, as it doesn't just impact some players, but pretty much every younger player.

Specifically, I was worried that the performance of my true freshman QB (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=60385&postcount=45) was a little too good. It turns out that there were some strong indicators that it should have been the case. I'm leaving the office right now and dropping by the house. I'm really curious to check and see if what Arlie predicted about the RB's on his team (that their performance would suffer) is the case. Painted with a broad brush and not getting into the intimate details, it turns out that (if player creation is working properly) I've got what should be a very rare player at QB....


has athleticism that normally only RB/CB/WR have
weighs over 220 pounds
should make bad decisions on keeping/pitching (I'll be checking to see if my RB's performed less-than-expected...)
but he's so big, strong and athletic that he makes plays on his own when he should have pitched the ball
I was worried that his stats were too good, but it turns out that he averaged .7 LESS ypc than did Vince Young as a true freshman.
Posts like these can sell games. Damn you!! :mad:


:D

[Ben E Lou]

Posts like these can sell games. Damn you!! :mad:


:DWell, the key to this is if this guy truly is a rare find, and it was just a case of a blind squirrel finding a nut on his first try. He was the first QB I recruited to run the option (I signed an off-the-charts o-coordinator who specialized in it, and had 2 good RB's, so I HAD to give it a shot), and he had such a monster year in his first season that it made me worried.

[nilodor]

I don't know if this has been mentioned or I'm blind but I'd like to see injuries represented on the depth chart instead of having to goto the roster screen and see who is injured, go to the depth chart and try and remember who is injured.

[Balldog]

Well-documented, and purported to be fixed in the latest build.

Great! Especially since I just lost to Purdue 38-34 after they converted 2 9-point TDs earlier in the game.

[dubb93]

Great! Especially since I just lost to Purdue 38-34 after they converted 2 9-point TDs earlier in the game.

Just wait untill someone scores a td on you, instead of going for 2 decide they need another TD and then kick a field goal resulting in one big 15 point TD.

[Anthony]

Well, the key to this is if this guy truly is a rare find, and it was just a case of a blind squirrel finding a nut on his first try. He was the first QB I recruited to run the option (I signed an off-the-charts o-coordinator who specialized in it, and had 2 good RB's, so I HAD to give it a shot), and he had such a monster year in his first season that it made me worried.

i'm already getting this game, but this sounds very encouraging nonetheless. can you specify as to what exactly you thought the issues were or what you thought the potential bug might have been?

[st.cronin]

I've been doodling with the database, and I've run into the following issues:

If you set up teams from different conferences as rivals (Colorado and Colorado State, for example) you HAVE to set the week to 15 - or else the game doesn't get scheduled.

On the other hand, if the rivals are from the same conference, you have to set the week to 0 or 15 - any other week and the game doesn't get scheduled.

I'm wondering if this is a bug, or something that could get fixed for the retail version.

One feature that would be neat would be if in the default schedule, you could move the game to a different date before adding new games. Or, if two teams are highly ranked preseason, perhaps the game could somehow 'move' the game to week 1 or 2 (for 'tv' purposes).

[Arles]

Guys, I must say that I just had an IM conversation with Arlie about performances of younger players that dang near had me reaching for the Kleenex. I'll let him reveal to the public what he wants, but suffice it to say that there's some good stuff going on under the hood, assuming it is all working properly (and it appears that it is). He explained some things going on with my dynasty team that looked to be concerning, but actually make perfect sense.
To follow up a little with what SD is talking about here - underclassmen sometimes perform above (or below) their "actual" level during the season. The odds are they will play better at home then on the road and that players with a high potential can have pretty drastic swings their freshman/soph seasons. So, a true freshman QB with potential could go out and throw for 4 TDs and 1 INT in one game and 0 TDs and 2 INTs in the next one.

Another item is that instincts play a role in option QBs. SD's young stud QB had very poor instincts, yet extremely high running ability and athletic skills. Combine that with a very high durability (partly because he's 6-4, 220) and you had a QB that probably preferred to keep it over pitching (because of his instincts). I told Ben this would probably end up with him having games with nice rushing numbers but a lot of 3-and-outs and a team slightly better than .500. It turned out that he ended up having well over 1,000 yards rushing but that the team finished around 7-4 with some of his RBs not getting the total carries they may have liked.

The goal here is to try and have many different "decision points" for coaches. Should you go with the young (and erradic) kid and maybe sacrifice a win or two but help his development? Should you adjust your gameplan/strategy with the idea that your young option QB may not make the best decisions and run more sweeps/tosses/keepers?

Again, I will be interested to get everyone's feedback on this once the game is released and you can build your own team over a few seasons, but I think things like these should really help the immersion level.

[Arles]

I've been doodling with the database, and I've run into the following issues:

If you set up teams from different conferences as rivals (Colorado and Colorado State, for example) you HAVE to set the week to 15 - or else the game doesn't get scheduled.
That is true. It's done this way to make sure the game doesn't get tossed out by the conference games.

On the other hand, if the rivals are from the same conference, you have to set the week to 0 or 15 - any other week and the game doesn't get scheduled.
0 and 15 are the only valid entries here. Again, I think the stock rivals and setup the game will have are very realistic. Still, I wanted to let people tinker a bit but I have to have some protections on the scheduling or all chaos could break out. If you just follow the "week 15 for non-conf" and "week 0 or 15 for conf" and you will be OK.

One feature that would be neat would be if in the default schedule, you could move the game to a different date before adding new games. Or, if two teams are highly ranked preseason, perhaps the game could somehow 'move' the game to week 1 or 2 (for 'tv' purposes).
Not bad ideas, but something that would probably be prudent to wait on for future versions.

[Ben E Lou]

i'm already getting this game, but this sounds very encouraging nonetheless. can you specify as to what exactly you thought the issues were or what you thought the potential bug might have been?He was a 3-star player who I easily landed, and he goes out and wins Conference Offensive Player Of The Year in the SEC as a true freshman, and was a 2nd-Team All-American. I was worried that his performance was too good and that maybe there was a bug or imbalance issue that was causing running QB's to be too good. Turns out that I just stumbled on a big, strong, fast, athletic, selfish S.O.B. who puts up great individual numbers but it remains to be seen if he can make a team great. Sounds pretty fun to me. :)

[Young Drachma]

Time for me to check this out. :)

[Icy]

He was a 3-star player who I easily landed, and he goes out and wins Conference Offensive Player Of The Year in the SEC as a true freshman, and was a 2nd-Team All-American. I was worried that his performance was too good and that maybe there was a bug or imbalance issue that was causing running QB's to be too good. Turns out that I just stumbled on a big, strong, fast, athletic, selfish S.O.B. who puts up great individual numbers but it remains to be seen if he can make a team great. Sounds pretty fun to me. :)
Wasn't Michael Vick a player like that in real life?

[Ben E Lou]

Wasn't Michael Vick a player like that in real life?He wasn't exactly big. One of the biggest lies in sports is that "215" next to his name. ;) Also, I don't think Va. Tech ran he option very much. I know in Atlanta he's been just the opposite: lots of wins, but not-so-great numbers. My QB put up great numbers, but we dropped to 7-5. {shrug}

[kingnebwsu]

Here's a few observations from my limited time with the demo...

On the depth chart, it'd be great to double click and see a player's card.

On the player's card, the player's year should be prominently featured (maybe up top with his number). This is a hugely important thing and shouldn't be hidden like it currently is.

On the weekly postgame E-mails detailing the film results...anything that's a zero shouldn't be included. Things that the player did do would stick out a lot more without all the unnecessary "0 mental errors" and things like that. I want to know what a player did, not what he didn't do. An example is:

TE Ahmed Denny - 0 key run block(s), 0 pancake block(s), 0 sack(s), 0 false start(s), 1 missed block(s), 0 holding call(s).

It's like, get rid of everything except the "1 missed block(s)" and it would clean up that screen nicely.

Is there a way for the game to run in a windowed format? Currently my taskbar is covering the very bottom of the game screen. Just wondering if this is just a demo thing. I'm running 1024x768.

As #18 Ohio State I opened up the season vs #9 USC. USC pasted OSU 31-10 but OSU dropped from the polls down to #35. I don't think they'd drop this much in real life. The next week, OSU blasted #4 Texas 38-0 and only moved up to #30. Texas dropped to #15. No way OSU (or any other BCS school) is unranked being 1-1 vs two top-10 teams. I think I read where Arlie will be checking out the poll evaluations. Just thought I'd throw this out there.

When simming games and looking at the box scores...how about putting a "-" instead of "0" for the OT score if the game ends in regulation. That way the OT games stick out more.
---

Take my comments for what they're worth. I'm sure I'll post more inane chatter after I get more PT with it. Good luck Arlie, this game has great potential.

[GrantDawg]

Here's a few observations from my limited time with the demo...

On the depth chart, it'd be great to double click and see a player's card.

On the player's card, the player's year should be prominently featured (maybe up top with his number). This is a hugely important thing and shouldn't be hidden like it currently is.

On the weekly postgame E-mails detailing the film results...anything that's a zero shouldn't be included. Things that the player did do would stick out a lot more without all the unnecessary "0 mental errors" and things like that. I want to know what a player did, not what he didn't do. An example is:

TE Ahmed Denny - 0 key run block(s), 0 pancake block(s), 0 sack(s), 0 false start(s), 1 missed block(s), 0 holding call(s).

It's like, get rid of everything except the "1 missed block(s)" and it would clean up that screen nicely.

Is there a way for the game to run in a windowed format? Currently my taskbar is covering the very bottom of the game screen. Just wondering if this is just a demo thing. I'm running 1024x768.

As #18 Ohio State I opened up the season vs #9 USC. USC pasted OSU 31-10 but OSU dropped from the polls down to #35. I don't think they'd drop this much in real life. The next week, OSU blasted #4 Texas 38-0 and only moved up to #30. Texas dropped to #15. No way OSU (or any other BCS school) is unranked being 1-1 vs two top-10 teams. I think I read where Arlie will be checking out the poll evaluations. Just thought I'd throw this out there.

When simming games and looking at the box scores...how about putting a "-" instead of "0" for the OT score if the game ends in regulation. That way the OT games stick out more.
---

Take my comments for what they're worth. I'm sure I'll post more inane chatter after I get more PT with it. Good luck Arlie, this game has great potential.

Good stuff there.

I've got a question, Arles. Do players progress during the season? Pre-season?

[gstelmack]

On the weekly postgame E-mails detailing the film results...anything that's a zero shouldn't be included. Things that the player did do would stick out a lot more without all the unnecessary "0 mental errors" and things like that. I want to know what a player did, not what he didn't do. An example is:

TE Ahmed Denny - 0 key run block(s), 0 pancake block(s), 0 sack(s), 0 false start(s), 1 missed block(s), 0 holding call(s).
I am officially buying this game when it comes out. I mean, I was probably going to buy it anyway, but this is the kind of stat detail that is crucial to figuring out how good a player really is. Telling me false starts, missed blocks, and holding calls helps a LOT with O-Linemen and blocking TEs, and similar bits would help bigtime with defenders. One of my FOF frustrations is that while we all know that a reason a mediocre CB may get lots of INTs is because QBs throw away from your great CB, you don't KNOW how often this happens and so can't tell for sure. Sounds like BBCF is taking a step in that direction.

[dubb93]

Good stuff there.

I've got a question, Arles. Do players progress during the season? Pre-season?

I had that same question and remember reading somewhere on the greydog forums they only progress during the off-season. That led me to believe that there is no point in playing young players, although from what Arlie said today that probably isn't true.

[Icy]

I had that same question and remember reading somewhere on the greydog forums they only progress during the off-season. That led me to believe that there is no point in playing young players, although from what Arlie said today that probably isn't true.
One of the big factors is past season playing time, so there is a point on playing young players so they will develop faster. It is this way on FBCB too for example and i think in other text sims too.

[gstelmack]

I had that same question and remember reading somewhere on the greydog forums they only progress during the off-season. That led me to believe that there is no point in playing young players, although from what Arlie said today that probably isn't true.
That would suck. Players should get better during the season, no question about it, especially young guys just learning the game. FOF gets this right, why don't the other sports sims?

[Icy]

Now some good news and a bit of teasing.

During the thanks giving days, i wrote a list in the beta forums with most of the suggestions compiled from this board and GDS one (interface, recruiting, academics, deep chart, scheduling, play calling, board expectations, etc). I tried to add all the more demanded ones even knowing that it was too late to add most of them...

He just answered...."All the above are in the last beta".

WOW, now we are going to test it, but never thought as many bug fixes and suggestions could be done as fast, you guys are going to love it, i'm really really impressed.

[vex]

I also really wished that players progressed during the season.

[John Galt]

A few more things I've noticed:

1) The PBP has too much "gotcha" and "surprise" language. In the game, I know that a perfect pass by more QB is bound to end in an incompletion. I know if it looks like its going to be a big play, it isn't. There aren't that many surprises in real football.

2) The PBP lacks diversity to reflect real outcomes. A receiver does not look upfield before catching the ball that many times a game. Most incompletions are just bad passes or drops.

3) Screen passes seem to have the same completion rate as all other short and medium passes. In fact, in my experience, I usually complete only 30% of the screens. I think screen passes should have a much higher completion rate.

4) Players make tackles on places they wouldn't be on the field. My DT should not be tackling WR 30 yards down field. And my blitzing LB shouldn't often tackle after a 5 yd gain.

5) The PBP and outcome of the play don't match consistently. It often says things like a "gain of a few yards" when the result is a 0 yard gain.

6) As others have noted, but seems especially true for option players, there aren't enough plays. And the number of runs to the left is especially limited.

7) There are no real hail mary plays.

8) Playcalling AI late in the half and game is poor. There is way too much running for a team trying to play catchup.

9) Playcalling suggestions are often bizarre. Playing a run defense on 2nd and 19 seems odd to me.

10) Decisions to decline penalties are often bad. I've had a 15yd penalty declined because I lost 2 yards on 1st down. I've had a 10yd penalty declined because I lost 1 yard on 2nd down.

11) Penalty computations for half the distance to goal line are wrong. I've had a 15 yard penalty marked off for the full yardage when I was on my own 17 yard line.

12) Clock usage is weird with taking timeouts. Late in the game, before you call your first time out, a play make take 30 seconds before you are able to stop the clock. Is the clock supposed to be the beginning of the play, the end of the play, or some random number in between?

13) The training screens show the coach quality of my old offensive coordinator and not my new one.

14) Recruiting is too late breaking. I was playing New Mexico. And I had way too many 3 star players deciding on the last day. That may be realistic, but the computer then offers a bunch of scholarships to putzes that I'm stuck with. The problem is that my recruiting service tells me I should go for all the players I did. To end up with only 4 of the remaining 12 is a little frustrating if I'm going to be stuck with garbage scholarship players.

15) I had a player tell me how it was his dream to play at New Mexico, but he didn't end up coming to my school. I recruited him fully and offered him a scholarship right away. He was a 3 star player. He ended up going to a comparable quality school. That seems to defeat the purpose of wanting to go to your dream school. I was also confused why a player from Florida had a dream to go to New Mexico.

16) Recruits seem to know I'm looking for some positions, but not others. I had several OG's interested in my team because I was short at that position. However, I had no ILB depth and play a 3-4, yet had no recruits really interested in me at that position.

17) Am I missing something, or is there no point in recruiting athletes? Don't they just become their default position anyway?

18) I've yet to have a DE record a lot of sacks. My DT always do better. This may be due to small sample sizes, but I thought it was worth noting.

19) The game randomly "pauses" so that I have to hit resume while playing a game. It isn't a big deal, but it seems weird.

20) The preview screen should include what type of offense and defense the other team runs. I can often figure out the offense, but it would be better if that info was easily found on the preview screen.

21) Am I wrong or shouldn't conference rematches in bowls not occur? I played in the Poinsetta Bowl with New Mexico against TCU. That kind of sucked.

22) It seems very hard to recruit mobile QB's to option teams. Instead they seem just as likely to choose teams running the west coast offense or other style that doesn't fit them.

That's it for now. There will probably be more later.

[John Galt]

dola,

1 more thing. I want to be able to set my own alma matter, age, and experience. That was something I always liked about FBCB. The letter from your alma matter school trying to hire you was an especially nice touch.

[vex]

Wow, John:D

[Icy]

Good stuff John. Some of that points are already fixed in the last beta but Arlie will read this for sure.

[Anthony]

Turns out that I just stumbled on a big, strong, fast, athletic, selfish S.O.B. who puts up great individual numbers but it remains to be seen if he can make a team great. Sounds pretty fun to me. :)

you recruited Michael Vick? :confused:









;)

[Anthony]

15) I was also confused why a player from Florida had a dream to go to New Mexico.


tired of hurricanes :confused:

[dubb93]

Has anyone else noticed that all the LB's at the start(never got to recruiting) seemed to be blitzing linebackers? And if so has that been fixed in the latest build?

[MizzouRah]

This is why FOFC is such a great community. Great feedback and although I still haven't played the game, I can tell most of what irks me in a text sim has been addressed by someone on here, including Arlie.

Feedback like this is extremely valuable and like Jim, Arlie has been great with FOFC dissecting his demo.

[GrantDawg]

I also really wished that players progressed during the season.

Me, too. Especially in college you can see players maturing during the season. I would hope there were periodic "bumps" after spring-fall training, after 4 weeks, after 8 weeks, after regular season and after bowls (I also hope that bowls increase progression like in real life).

[Icy]

Two HOF QB's in South Florida, we must win this year! (btw, you can notice the recently added lock players box in the deep chart)

http://www.prodeportes.com/bb/qbs.jpg

[John Galt]

Good stuff John. Some of that points are already fixed in the last beta but Arlie will read this for sure.

Is there any chance the newer beta builds will be turned into a demo build? Playing without some of the glaring demo problems (3 pt XP, etc.) would be nice.

[rexallllsc]

On the depth chart, it'd be great to double click and see a player's card.

On the player's card, the player's year should be prominently featured (maybe up top with his number). This is a hugely important thing and shouldn't be hidden like it currently is.


Agree with both of those!

[Anthony]

Icy:what does "3/-" or "4/-" mean? does that mean the player has reached their max potential?

[GrantDawg]

Icy:what does "3/-" or "4/-" mean? does that mean the player has reached their max potential?
Not Icy, but yes.

[Icy]

Is there any chance the newer beta builds will be turned into a demo build? Playing without some of the glaring demo problems (3 pt XP, etc.) would be nice.
Arlie answered to that question in GDS forums that he would try to setup a new demo after the big issues are fixed, but i'm not sure as he is bussy developing the multiplayer part now.

[Icy]

Icy:what does "3/-" or "4/-" mean? does that mean the player has reached their max potential?
Yes, i'm using the 10/10 scale now to see if i enjoy that one more than the 5/5. I dont' like alot the 100/100 or 100/5 ones, too much info (i'm used to play with stats only in OOTP and i like it).