Lions Fire Mooch?

[SegRat]

ESPN Monday morning QB says lions fired Mooch

[SegRat]

Lions | Mariucci fired
Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:05:32 -0800

Jay Glazer, of FOXSports.com, reports the Detroit Lions have fired head coach Steve Mariucci. It was widely speculated Mariucci would be let go by the team following their embarrassing loss to the Atlanta Falcons on Thanksgiving Day. The team has dropped four of their last five games and Mariucci was 15-28 during his two-plus years with the Lions. He has two more seasons left on his five-year, $25 million contract.

[Joe]

mooch gets fired but tice still has a job? BS

[Pumpy Tudors]

OH MY GOODNESS NOBODY EVER SAW THIS COMING EVER IN LIFE EVER

[rkmsuf]

Tice is 6-5 beotch.

[ice4277]

Supposedly Jauron will be the interim guy. Presser at 3pm.

[cthomer5000]

more breakin news: 20 year extension for Matt Millen

[ice4277]

more breakin news: 20 year extension for Matt Millen
:(

[rkmsuf]

I just heard that nobody that has coached the Lions has ever gone on to ever get another head coaching job in the NFL.

[Joe]

I just heard that nobody that has coached the Lions has ever gone on to ever get another head coaching job in the NFL.

not even with the browns?

[rkmsuf]

not even with the browns?

they said nobody on the radio

[mckerney]

I just heard that nobody that has coached the Lions has ever gone on to ever get another head coaching job in the NFL.

With the exception of George Wilson and Raymond Parker.

[rkmsuf]

With the exception of George Wilson, Raymond Parker, and Alvin McMillin.

never heard of those guys. must be old school names.

who was the lion coach that won the toss in overtime and decided to kickoff?

[Glengoyne]

never heard of those guys. must be old school names.

who was the lion coach that won the toss in overtime and decided to kickoff?
Fontes?

[mckerney]

never heard of those guys. must be old school names.

who was the lion coach that won the toss in overtime and decided to kickoff?

Mornhinweg

[vtbub]

Morningwhig, or however u spell it.

[rkmsuf]

Yeah, Morningwig. Brilliant strategist.

[vtbub]

Who were the assistants let go?

[ice4277]

OL Coach - Pat Morris
TE Coach - Andy Sugarman

Also, apparently Jauron may not be the interim coach. Sounds like they may be looking at QB coach Greg Olsen. FYI, Olsen called the offensive plays in the Lion's final 3 games last year, which also turned out to be three of their better games of the Mariucci era.

[Schmidty]

I am so happy, I feel like singing!!!!!

[rkmsuf]

I'll bet Mooch is quietly pleased as well. 2 years left on his 25 million dollar deal. Time to golf and go to Michigan State games!

[Schmidty]

Time to golf and go to Michigan State games!

If MSU hires him, I will shoot myself in the head. MSU sucked the past two years, but at least their offense was fun to watch (for the most part). Mooch would destroy any explosiveness on offense, and any aggresiveness on defense. The man's coaching mentality is stuck in 1979.

[rkmsuf]

If MSU hires him, I will shoot myself in the head. MSU sucked the past two years, but at least their offense was fun to watch (for the most part). Mooch would destroy any explosiveness on offense, and any aggresiveness on defense. The man's coaching mentality is stuck in 1979.



I just meant to go watch his butt buddy Izzo.

[gi]

Ditto...singing away...

[Daimyo]

I'm not saying he was a great coach, but is there a coach in the league that could win with a mega-bust QB and three straight WRs drafted at #1. Is Millen married to the owner's daughter or something?

[Schmidty]

I just meant to go watch his butt buddy Izzo.

Ah, that's ok then. Maybe he can get some tips from a real coach. :)

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'm not saying he was a great coach, but is there a coach in the league that could win with a mega-bust QB and three straight WRs drafted at #1. Is Millen married to the owner's daughter or something?
Well, we may get to find out next year...

Ford loves Millen. No idea why, but he does.

[Schmidty]

I'm not saying he was a great coach, but is there a coach in the league that could win with a mega-bust QB and three straight WRs drafted at #1. Is Millen married to the owner's daughter or something?

I garauntee that there is, especially Gruden and Vermeil. Those guys can coach to whatever strengths their teams have.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Ditto...singing away...
While I shed no tears for Mooch, and I don't want to believe it's true, but I fear nothing positive will happen until we go right to the source: Millen. We can keep chopping heads off this hydra (Mornhinweg, Mooch, etc.), but it will continue to live until we go for the very heart of the problem.

[QuikSand]

Well, we may get to find out next year...

Ford loves Millen. No idea why, but he does.

Is there any likelihood at all that Ford will fire Millen just after extending his guaranteed contract? I don't think so...

[Raiders Army]

Craig T. Nelson was a pretty good coach.

[Daimyo]

I garauntee that there is, especially Gruden and Vermeil. Those guys can coach to whatever strengths their teams have.
That's kind of funny to me considering both those guys were under 500 just last year... no matter who the coach is there is some level of talent at which they simply can not win.

[vtbub]

LOL, The Lions might be a mess, but WDFN is already running promos as the breaking news authority using clips of them annoucing Mooch's axing.

[gi]

While I shed no tears for Mooch, and I don't want to believe it's true, but I fear nothing positive will happen until we go right to the source: Millen. We can keep chopping heads off this hydra (Mornhinweg, Mooch, etc.), but it will continue to live until we go for the very heart of the problem.
I think we both could make an excellent arguement that the true source is the Ford family. Maybe just Sr., but I'd role with the whole family being the problem.

[moriarty]

If MSU hires him, I will shoot myself in the head. MSU sucked the past two years, but at least their offense was fun to watch (for the most part). Mooch would destroy any explosiveness on offense, and any aggresiveness on defense. The man's coaching mentality is stuck in 1979.

I want to say he had a pretty good offense his last year at Cal (prior to taking the 49'ers job), but his defense was awful. I'd have to look that up though. Regardless, I dont' think there's any chance he ends up at MSU.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Is there any likelihood at all that Ford will fire Millen just after extending his guaranteed contract? I don't think so...
I don't think so either. I think Millen will be here for a while longer. The head coaching change will buy Millen a few more years. Next year it will be about players "learning a new system" and the coach saying "I need to get to know these guys". This will buy Millen some more time, but if that goes south he'll either resign or get the axe.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I want to say he had a pretty good offense his last year at Cal (prior to taking the 49'ers job), but his defense was awful. I'd have to look that up though. Regardless, I dont' think there's any chance he ends up at MSU.
That would be too bad. While I don't want Schmidty to shoot himself in the head, it would make me happy to see Mooch coaching the Sparties! :D

[Schmidty]

That's kind of funny to me considering both those guys were under 500 just last year... no matter who the coach is there is some level of talent at which they simply can not win.

That's true, but I've seen coaches win with less talent than the Lions have. The reason was because they changed with the times and their roster's strengths. Mooch is determined to use an antiquated offense that focuses on running and dump-off passes even though he has a shitty offensive line and extremely big and fast recievers. Of course you have to run the ball, but it was almost as if he didn't scout opponents, he just stuck with the three and out mentality.

[Schmidty]

While I don't want Schmidty to shoot himself in the head.....

Aw, thanks HB. That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :)

[rkmsuf]

I'm not saying he was a great coach, but is there a coach in the league that could win with a mega-bust QB and three straight WRs drafted at #1. Is Millen married to the owner's daughter or something?


I'm watching the game last Thursday in amazement as Harrington can't throw it to a guy just standing there 15 yards away. One was over the guys head, another in the ground. How is that possible that he even plays?

I now understand why Joey gets so excited when he puts one on the money and they score.

[gi]

I'm watching the game last Thursday in amazement as Harrington can't throw it to a guy just standing there 15 yards away. One was over the guys head, another in the ground. How is that possible that he even plays?

I now understand why Joey gets so excited when he puts one on the money and they score.
Joey will have great pro bowl success with another team continuing the long running saga of Lions fans seeing their failed players excel else where.

[rkmsuf]

Joey will have great pro bowl success with another team continuing the long running saga of Lions fans seeing their failed players excel else where.


Never. He's a tulip and can't throw the ball. Guy has as much leadership ability as the discarded pizza box currently in my refuse bin.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Joey will have great pro bowl success with another team continuing the long running saga of Lions fans seeing their failed players excel else where.
Which players are those again?

[Schmidty]

Never. He's a tulip and can't throw the ball. Guy has as much leadership ability as the discarded pizza box currently in my refuse bin.

I am far from from pro-Joey, but I think a lot of his shittiness is a product of Mooch's fucked up offensive "system". I can remember when Marty Morhonweg was coaching him in his first season (and the Lions actually threw downfield on occasion), Joey had very nice touch on his long passes.

[moriarty]

That would be too bad. While I don't want Schmidty to shoot himself in the head, it would make me happy to see Mooch coaching the Sparties! :D

Well just for kicks:
Mooch was 6-6 at Cal.
His offense scored 344 points or ~29 points per game (not bad).
His defense gave up ~30.5 points per game. :eek: Including coughing up 38 points in a 42-38 Aloha Bowl shootout versus Navy of all teams.

Edit: and based on this fine season, he was granted the coaching job at San Francisco.

[rkmsuf]

I am far from from pro-Joey, but I think a lot of his shittiness is a product of Mooch's fucked up offensive "system". I can remember when Marty Morhonweg was coaching him in his first season (and the Lions actually threw downfield on occasion), Joey had very nice touch on his long passes.

What does the system have to do with not being accurate? I'm talking about missing wide open guys on easy throws.

[Joe]

What does the system have to do with not being accurate? I'm talking about missing wide open guys on easy throws.

Well, some systems like to get a high number of completions. Other systems, like Harrington's, like to get the WR killed.

[Schmidty]

What does the system have to do with not being accurate? I'm talking about missing wide open guys on easy throws.

Honestly, I think a ton of the inaccuracy was from dropped passes. In fact, I would make a wager that the Lions lead the league in dropped passes (I'll check).

Look, I don't think Joey will ever be anything more than servicable, but I think he'd be a hell of a lot better under a system that plays to his strengths (medium/long passes), and if he had more than one reciever that can actually catch the ball (Roy).

[rkmsuf]

Man even here Joey gets a pass for not completing simple passes. No wonder he's still in there.

[gi]

Which players are those again?
My comment was mostly sarcasm, but:

Rondy Peete did well in Carolina for a spell.

Jeff Hartings

Mike...(Forgot last name) Guard in N.E.

Mike McMahon

Reuben Droughes (SP is way off)

just a few off the top of my head.

[Honolulu_Blue]

My comment was mostly sarcasm, but:

Rondy Peete did well in Carolina for a spell.

Jeff Hartings

Mike...(Forgot last name) Guard in N.E.

Mike McMahon

Reuben Droughes (SP is way off)

just a few off the top of my head.
Hartings has been good. That was one of Millen's dumber moves. Droughns has had some success, but Rodney Peete, Mike Compton, and Mike McMahon? Come on!

[rkmsuf]

Actually now after I look at it maybe the Lions screwed this guy up(Harrington). They basically bring in Garcia and throw the gauntlet down after Joey had his best year and is you'd assume on the upswing. Instead on making him feel like the man, they make him they kind of make him audition to keep the job.

Has a great opener and then maybe that Chicago game took it's toll on him with the 5 picks. Looking back the Bear D is outstanding. Take that game out and his numbers aren't horrid.

[gi]

Hartings has been good. That was one of Millen's dumber moves. Droughns has had some success, but Rodney Peete, Mike Compton, and Mike McMahon? Come on!
McMahon seems to be functional in Philly right now, better than here in Detroit. Compton has to have something to be with Bill in N.E. Rodney had a good spell in Carolina. He sure looked better there than in Detroit.

[Joe]

lol McMahon has started a whole TWO GAMES outside of Detroit.

[Shkspr]

lol McMahon has started a whole TWO GAMES outside of Detroit.


That's what a Lions fan means by "excel".

[gi]

That's what a Lions fan means by "excel".
Yep. :)

[cougarfreak]

Don't forget Scott Mitchell.

[Ksyrup]

This is a great line. I'm not sure if this is inartfully drafted, or meant as a shot at Millen. It's funny either way:

"Mariucci was cut some slack in the past because the team he inherited was crafted by team president Matt Millen, but expectations were high heading into his third season."

[vtbub]

Jauron took the interim job.

[Ksyrup]

Enjoy that locker room, boys.


Speaking with emotion on the NFL Network, Lions Pro Bowl cornerback Dry Bly said most of Detroit's problems stem from one person - the team's quarterback.
"They should have fired guys on this team a long time ago... I feel like there is one guy in particular who I felt like is the cause of this whole thing. That's just how it is," Pressed further on who that one person is, Bly said, "It's not hard to figure out. The quarterback here has been bad. He hasn't gotten the job done since I got here. Y'all just see Sundays, but I've been a part of this every day for three years... practices. You see how the guys practice and the practices have been bad... I really don't believe coach would have gotten fired if Jeff (Garcia) didn't get hurt." Nov. 28 - 3:24 pm et

[GrantDawg]

Enjoy that locker room, boys.


Speaking with emotion on the NFL Network, Lions Pro Bowl cornerback Dry Bly said most of Detroit's problems stem from one person - the team's quarterback.
"They should have fired guys on this team a long time ago... I feel like there is one guy in particular who I felt like is the cause of this whole thing. That's just how it is," Pressed further on who that one person is, Bly said, "It's not hard to figure out. The quarterback here has been bad. He hasn't gotten the job done since I got here. Y'all just see Sundays, but I've been a part of this every day for three years... practices. You see how the guys practice and the practices have been bad... I really don't believe coach would have gotten fired if Jeff (Garcia) didn't get hurt." Nov. 28 - 3:24 pm et

Wow. I wonder if he is going to get suspended for those comments.

[cthomer5000]

Wow. I wonder if he is going to get suspended for those comments.
He should get a raise for those comments.

[Router Help]

Hartings has been good. That was one of Millen's dumber moves. Droughns has had some success, but Rodney Peete, Mike Compton, and Mike McMahon? Come on!

Pat Swilling was awesome before Detorit, sucked for Detroit despite making the Pro Bowl, and then had 13 sacks his first year with Oakland.

[Schmidty]

Pat Swilling was awesome before Detorit, sucked for Detroit despite making the Pro Bowl, and then had 13 sacks his first year with Oakland.

To be fair, Swilling played in a 3-4 scheme as a strict pass-rusher in New Orleans, but was a SLB in Detroit.

Still, Detroit fucked that up. Could of had Willie Roaf. :(

[cmp]

I want Scott Mitchell back.

4338 yards, 32 TD's, 12 INT's, 92.3 QB Rating

[miami_fan]

I don't know where I saw it but someone was talking about Millen being unhappy with the laid back style of Mooch when it came to dealing with players. I think he would rather a Coughlin-like guy to be the next head coach. Here is the list of candidates that John Clayton has put together.

Dick Jauron
Mike Martz
Brian Billick
Norv Turner
Jim Bates, defensive coordinator, Green Bay
Tim Lewis, defensive coordinator, N.Y. Giants
Bob Bratkowski, offensive coordinator, Cincinnati
Donnie Henderson, defensive coordinator, N.Y. Jets
Russ Grimm, offensive line coach, Pittsburgh
Jim Schwartz, defensive coordinator, Tennessee
Sean Payton, assistant head coach, Cowboys
Gregg Williams, defensive coordinator/assistant head coach, Washington
Al Saunders, offensive coordinator, Kansas City

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2239800

[WrongWay]

I always thought Harrington was Millen's boy while the Mooch tried everything he could to get Harrington out of the startes role.

What was that old Parcells saying about "not being able to buy the groceries"?

[Abe Sargent]

I think that Dre' Bly should be the GM over Matt Millen.

-Anxiety


Enjoy that locker room, boys.


Speaking with emotion on the NFL Network, Lions Pro Bowl cornerback Dry Bly said most of Detroit's problems stem from one person - the team's quarterback.
"They should have fired guys on this team a long time ago... I feel like there is one guy in particular who I felt like is the cause of this whole thing. That's just how it is," Pressed further on who that one person is, Bly said, "It's not hard to figure out. The quarterback here has been bad. He hasn't gotten the job done since I got here. Y'all just see Sundays, but I've been a part of this every day for three years... practices. You see how the guys practice and the practices have been bad... I really don't believe coach would have gotten fired if Jeff (Garcia) didn't get hurt." Nov. 28 - 3:24 pm et

[duckman]

I always thought Harrington was Millen's boy while the Mooch tried everything he could to get Harrington out of the startes role.

What was that old Parcells saying about "not being able to buy the groceries"?
If my memory is correct, I think Millen relunctantly picked Harrington over Quentin Jammer because he was in such a high pick (3rd overall I think).

[oykib]

The fact that Millen is still employed as team president is a joke. Looking at the situation in Detroit makes me feel better about being a Jets fan.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I think that Dre' Bly should be the GM over Matt Millen.

-Anxiety
One could make that argument, but his belief that Jeff Garcia would have been the difference definitely makes one question his credentials...

[gi]

One could make that argument, but his belief that Jeff Garcia would have been the difference definitely makes one question his credentials...
I've never liked players publicly airing the laundry.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Enjoy that locker room, boys.


Speaking with emotion on the NFL Network, Lions Pro Bowl cornerback Dry Bly said most of Detroit's problems stem from one person - the team's quarterback.
"They should have fired guys on this team a long time ago... I feel like there is one guy in particular who I felt like is the cause of this whole thing. That's just how it is," Pressed further on who that one person is, Bly said, "It's not hard to figure out. The quarterback here has been bad. He hasn't gotten the job done since I got here. Y'all just see Sundays, but I've been a part of this every day for three years... practices. You see how the guys practice and the practices have been bad... I really don't believe coach would have gotten fired if Jeff (Garcia) didn't get hurt." Nov. 28 - 3:24 pm et
This is not good, but it's indicative of the problems with this team. Dre Bly is the Lions best player. Well, he or Shaun Rogers. In the Thanksgiving Day game, Bly made more plays than anyone and he was playing with one freaking hand. He would have had two picks easily if it wasn't for the injury. Bly is considered a team leader and his comments, regardless of their veracity, are indicative of some of the problems with this team.

You have Bly basically coming out in T.O. fashion and blaming it all on Harrington. Where is the concept of team here? He's your quaterback for crissakes. I remember a few weeks ago I was watching some post-game press conference after the Raiders lost (the TV was on and it took too much effort to turn off) and someone asked Lamont Jordan about Kerry Collins' play or something. Jordan basically said that Collins is his quarterback and he's not going to blame him or call him out. He's the team's leader and he's going to stick up for him. While I am sure Collins deserved to take some (a lot?) of the heat for the loss, Jordan refused to go there because he's good teammate. I have not seen that attitude out of the Lions in a long, long time. Maybe Harrington is just that bad or irritating or whatever, but the problem is systemic. While the problems probably run deeper than Mooch (see: Millen), Mooch certainly was not a solution.

You also have Garcia coming out and saying that players took advantage of Mooch's nice guy personality. I am sure many did. The Lions, unfortunately, have some punks on this team (see: The Three Divas). Then you have Harrington coming out and saying Mooch didn't do enough to discipline the team. Garcai's and Harrington's opposing views of the problems with the team and Bly's rant are symbolic of what's going with this organization. There doesn't seem to be any sense of team. Mooch seemed to split the team down the middle with this whole QB situation (remember Mooch's "OK, Jeff's going in now guys, turn it up a notch!" speech during the Atlanta game?). It's an absolute mess.

Winning seems to cure all ills. It would be interesting to have seen how this team would be playing if the refs hadn't over turned Pollard's game winning reception against Tampa (it was a bad call) and if the Lions had actually been able to stop the deadly duo of Chris Weinke and Ricky Proehl and won that game too.

Millen should have been fired. He wasn't. Mooch needed to be fired. He was. Let's hope that Jauron can do something these next five weeks to try to salvage the team and then the right decisions are made during the offseason from both a player and coach personnel perspective. Given Millen's track record with both, that last part is highly unlikely...

[Ksyrup]

You also have Garcia coming out and saying that players took advantage of Mooch's nice guy personality. I am sure many did. The Lions, unfortunately, have some punks on this team (see: The Three Divas). Then you have Harrington coming out and saying Mooch didn't do enough to discipline the team. Garcai's and Harrington's opposing views of the problems with the team...

Actually, I think they are commenting, in different ways, about the same problem. I think they are on the same page here.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Actually, I think they are commenting, in different ways, about the same problem. I think they are on the same page here.
In a way, yes, but I think the big distinction about how they say it speaks volumes. Garcia (Mooch's guy) is basically saying that the players took advantage of Mooch. It was the players' fault. Harrington (certainly NOT Mooch's guy) is saying it was Mooch's fault, he should have been disciplined with his players. So, while I agree they are commenting, in different ways, about the same problem, the "different ways" are showing just how divided this team is.

[timmynausea]

This is merely a rumor that has been spreading accross various message boards, but it would be hilarious: Millen wants Dave Wannstedt.

[timmynausea]

Dola - that'd be a mustache made in heaven.

[Neuqua]

This is merely a rumor that has been spreading accross various message boards, but it would be hilarious: Millen wants Dave Wannstedt.

LOL! Sounds about right.

[Ksyrup]

That would be a gigantic mess. And the worst part is, he'd end up getting 5 years to prove he should have been fired 3 years earlier.

[DeToxRox]

Lions need Tim Lewis.

[DeToxRox]

And to dola..

Remember the brawl in Major League II?

I think we'll be seeing that this year with the Lions.

[Deattribution]

I remember a few weeks ago I was watching some post-game press conference after the Raiders lost (the TV was on and it took too much effort to turn off) and someone asked Lamont Jordan about Kerry Collins' play or something. Jordan basically said that Collins is his quarterback and he's not going to blame him or call him out. He's the team's leader and he's going to stick up for him. While I am sure Collins deserved to take some (a lot?) of the heat for the loss, Jordan refused to go there because he's good teammate. I have not seen that attitude out of the Lions in a long, long time. Maybe Harrington is just that bad or irritating or whatever, but the problem is systemic. While the problems probably run deeper than Mooch (see: Millen), Mooch certainly was not a solution.



I think the difference here though is - Kerry Collins has won, he's no Brett Favre, but he's led a team to a SB and he's won some games plus had a few decent seasons.

Harrington on the other hand - he's never done anything but lose and stink, so naturally youre going to get a bit frustrated after a while.

[Ksyrup]

Mike Singletary, assistant head coach and linebackers coach of the San Francisco 49ers, is your favorite to be the next Lions head coach.
-- Detroit News


Last night, while watching Monday Night Countdown, I saw the bit on the 85 Bears and wondered where Singletary had disappeared to. I think I remember seeing something about him coaching the Ravens LBs a few years ago, but then he just seemed to fall off the face of the earth. And then today, I read this.

[JeeberD]

UTEP interviewed Singletary before we wound up hiring Coach Price. Interesting to see that two years later he might be headed towards an NFL head coaching job...

[Kodos]

Yikes! Wannstedt? Haven't the Lions suffered enough having Millen?

[Anthony]

I don't know where I saw it but someone was talking about Millen being unhappy with the laid back style of Mooch when it came to dealing with players. I think he would rather a Coughlin-like guy to be the next head coach. Here is the list of candidates that John Clayton has put together.

Dick Jauron
Mike Martz
Brian Billick
Norv Turner
Jim Bates, defensive coordinator, Green Bay
Tim Lewis, defensive coordinator, N.Y. Giants
Bob Bratkowski, offensive coordinator, Cincinnati
Donnie Henderson, defensive coordinator, N.Y. Jets
Russ Grimm, offensive line coach, Pittsburgh
Jim Schwartz, defensive coordinator, Tennessee
Sean Payton, assistant head coach, Cowboys
Gregg Williams, defensive coordinator/assistant head coach, Washington
Al Saunders, offensive coordinator, Kansas City

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2239800

Billick would do wonders in Detroit. he doesn't want to play smashmouth, he wants to air it out. he has 3 potentially solid WR's, and Garcia, when healthy, would be the best QB he's had as a head coach. i'd even take Harrington over anyone the Ravens got as QB. Lions needs a better OC, and they need to trade for one of Miami's RBs.

[st.cronin]

Mike Martz would be perfect. I don't mean perfect for Lions fans; I mean just perfect.

[dixieflatline]

Slightly off topic but I think it is about time that Al Saunders gets at least a look at a head coaching job. Up until recently the big knock on him was that KC only scored because of Priest Holmes but they are doing just fine with Larry Johnson in there. It isn't like the rest of the offense is that steller. Green is ok, the Oline is ok, Gonzales is good but the WR are below average.

That said I would have to think long and hard before taking a job to coach under Millen. All he seems to do is throw the coach under the bus when the fans get in an uproar.

[rkmsuf]

Just saw a great stat.

Detroit since Matt Millen took over as general manager: 20-55. The first five years of the expansion Tampa Bay Bucs, 1976-1980: 23-54-1.

[ice4277]

Lions needs a better OC, and they need to trade for one of Miami's RBs.
No disagreement about the OC here, but they don't need a new RB. They need to utilize Kevin Jones more consistently, and upgrade the o-line.

[Wolfpack]

Just saw a great stat.

Detroit since Matt Millen took over as general manager: 20-55. The first five years of the expansion Tampa Bay Bucs, 1976-1980: 23-54-1.

Interesting, because that includes the 0-14 1976 season as well as the run they made to the NFC championship game in 1979. Detroit, on the other hand, has only incrementally improved year-to-year since 2001.

[Anthony]

Just saw a great stat.

Detroit since Matt Millen took over as general manager: 20-55. The first five years of the expansion Tampa Bay Bucs, 1976-1980: 23-54-1.

so how does it work nowadays when it comes to GMs? they get to fire 2 coaches, and if the 3rd one doesn't pan out then the finger is pointed at them? Millen is already on his 3rd coach (albeit one who's currently an interim coach). next season a 4th will be brought in. does Millen get one season to correct the ship or is there like a built-in 2 seasons to test out the new coach? i guess my question is "when is the general time that it's decided that the problem is the GM" usually?

i would say his record at drafting is attrocious and he should have been out after squandering 2 top 3 picks and drafting 3 WRs in a row.

[Honolulu_Blue]

so how does it work nowadays when it comes to GMs? they get to fire 2 coaches, and if the 3rd one doesn't pan out then the finger is pointed at them? Millen is already on his 3rd coach (albeit one who's currently an interim coach). next season a 4th will be brought in. does Millen get one season to correct the ship or is there like a built-in 2 seasons to test out the new coach? i guess my question is "when is the general time that it's decided that the problem is the GM" usually?

i would say his record at drafting is attrocious and he should have been out after squandering 2 top 3 picks and drafting 3 WRs in a row.
I don't know if there is any hard and fast rule when it comes to GMs, but in Millen's particular case I don't think he will be leaving any time soon. He will be with the Lions for at least 3 more years. The head coaching change and the new five year extension he signed earlier this year will buy Millen a few more years. Next year it will be about players "learning a new system" and the coach saying "I need to get to know these guys". This will buy Millen some more time, but if that goes south he'll either resign or get the axe. But that wont be for another 3 years or so.

His drafts, like most, have been hit and miss. Harrington is looking like a bust, so is Rogers. Drafting 3 WRs in the top ten three years in a row is looking as stupid as everyone thought it would. You don't have to be a football genius to realize that three #1 WRs, who have been "the guy" all thier lives will have a tough time adjusting to just being "one of the guys." There is just not enough ball to go around. He has made some good picks. Roy Williams, Kevin Jones (still think he's decent), Shaun Rogers, Teddy Lehman, etc.

His free agent moves are his and miss as well. Bly's been great. Woody is solid. But many of his other moves have been blunders. Bryant was a stupid signing. DeMulling was another. Letting Hartings go when he first got here was really bad.

It's obvious his decisions on who to coach the team have been dreadful.

It's sad to see where this team is right now. Even after last year, which was not a good year, there was still some sense of hope, a sense that this was a young, talented team that just needed some more time to gel and get some final pieces in place. Everything seemed very positive. Right now there is nothing good or positive about this team. There is dissention all over the place. The future is looking pretty bleak, hell, Dre Bly one of the team's most outspoken leaders said that he wants to leave if things don't improve. There appears to be no light at the end of this tunnel...

There was speculation that if Mooch got canned, the team may stick with Harrington. I have no idea how they do this. Even if there is a chance that he may one day develop into a decent pro quarterback (serious questionmarks hanging over that one), I can't see it happening in Detroit. Too much has happened here. Too many negative things. Joey is by no means the only problem in Detroit, but like Mooch, I don't think he's a viable solution. I don't think Garcia is the answer and Orlovsky is too young. The Lions may draft another QB and try and sign a veteran guy in the off season. Then again, they make stick with Harrington. In that case, I would be hard pressed to believe the Lions' fortunes will change significantly.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Dola.

Not that it matters, but Dick Jauron has named Gracia as the starter on Sunday. I think that's further writing on the wall that the Joey Harrington Era is coming to an end in Detroit. If the Lions were really planning on keeping him around, I would assume they would try to see what he can do in Greg Olson's (new OC) offense. Not that I assume there will be any major differences between Greg Olson's offene and Ted Tollner's offense (old OC) given that they have all of 4 days to prepare.

[GrantDawg]

Don't worry. I'm sure you can get Charlie Batch at the end of the season.

[JasonC23]

Lions Fans,

Dick Jauron. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Love,

A Bears Fan

[Ksyrup]

I think we would trade 25 years in hell (won't feel any different than now) for one 13-3 season. Dick Jauron is a step up at this point.

[WrongWay]

Why is MAtt Millen untouchable?

Also, what kind of Head Coach do you think the Lions are going to be able to land? With Millen calling all the shots off the field what kind of Coach would want this job?

I Thought the Redskins job would be a nightmare with the owner looking over your shoulder on every move you made.

[miami_fan]

Why is MAtt Millen untouchable?

Also, what kind of Head Coach do you think the Lions are going to be able to land? With Millen calling all the shots off the field what kind of Coach would want this job?

I Thought the Redskins job would be a nightmare with the owner looking over your shoulder on every move you made.

I am playing Devil's Advocate for this one cause I believe Millen should have be fired as well. If you go back and look at his drafts at the time from a purely talent standpoint you could not necessarily fault the picks. Joey was considered one of the top two QBs when he was drafted. All three of the wideouts were among the top 2-3 receivers in the draft. Now add Kevin Jones. If those players play to the level expected of them at the time and you have a Bengal-esque offense. I can't speak on free agency since I don't follow them that closely. As for who would coach this team with Millen as GM. Believe it or not, I think this might be one of the better jobs out there. It reminds me of the Bengals job when Marvin Lewis took over. If you believe the talent is there, then he can come in a mold it how he wants with unquestioned support from Millen. That support is something I don't necessarly think Mooch had at the end. If the talent is not there, Millen gets the blame and the new coach can move the team in another direction.

[Schmidty]

I don't know if there is any hard and fast rule when it comes to GMs, but in Millen's particular case I don't think he will be leaving any time soon. He will be with the Lions for at least 3 more years. The head coaching change and the new five year extension he signed earlier this year will buy Millen a few more years. Next year it will be about players "learning a new system" and the coach saying "I need to get to know these guys". This will buy Millen some more time, but if that goes south he'll either resign or get the axe. But that wont be for another 3 years or so.

His drafts, like most, have been hit and miss. Harrington is looking like a bust, so is Rogers. Drafting 3 WRs in the top ten three years in a row is looking as stupid as everyone thought it would. You don't have to be a football genius to realize that three #1 WRs, who have been "the guy" all thier lives will have a tough time adjusting to just being "one of the guys." There is just not enough ball to go around. He has made some good picks. Roy Williams, Kevin Jones (still think he's decent), Shaun Rogers, Teddy Lehman, etc.

His free agent moves are his and miss as well. Bly's been great. Woody is solid. But many of his other moves have been blunders. Bryant was a stupid signing. DeMulling was another. Letting Hartings go when he first got here was really bad.

It's obvious his decisions on who to coach the team have been dreadful.

It's sad to see where this team is right now. Even after last year, which was not a good year, there was still some sense of hope, a sense that this was a young, talented team that just needed some more time to gel and get some final pieces in place. Everything seemed very positive. Right now there is nothing good or positive about this team. There is dissention all over the place. The future is looking pretty bleak, hell, Dre Bly one of the team's most outspoken leaders said that he wants to leave if things don't improve. There appears to be no light at the end of this tunnel...

There was speculation that if Mooch got canned, the team may stick with Harrington. I have no idea how they do this. Even if there is a chance that he may one day develop into a decent pro quarterback (serious questionmarks hanging over that one), I can't see it happening in Detroit. Too much has happened here. Too many negative things. Joey is by no means the only problem in Detroit, but like Mooch, I don't think he's a viable solution. I don't think Garcia is the answer and Orlovsky is too young. The Lions may draft another QB and try and sign a veteran guy in the off season. Then again, they make stick with Harrington. In that case, I would be hard pressed to believe the Lions' fortunes will change significantly.

That was abominably long and I won't read it since I am a busy man, but I have one thing to say:

MILLEN CAN SUCK MY BALLS, AND MR. FORD CAN KISS MY ASS.

That is all.

[WrongWay]

I am playing Devil's Advocate for this one cause I believe Millen should have be fired as well. If you go back and look at his drafts at the time from a purely talent standpoint you could not necessarily fault the picks. Joey was considered one of the top two QBs when he was drafted. All three of the wideouts were among the top 2-3 receivers in the draft. Now add Kevin Jones. If those players play to the level expected of them at the time and you have a Bengal-esque offense. I can't speak on free agency since I don't follow them that closely. As for who would coach this team with Millen as GM. Believe it or not, I think this might be one of the better jobs out there. It reminds me of the Bengals job when Marvin Lewis took over. If you believe the talent is there, then he can come in a mold it how he wants with unquestioned support from Millen. That support is something I don't necessarly think Mooch had at the end. If the talent is not there, Millen gets the blame and the new coach can move the team in another direction.
Drafting a WR 3 years in a row with an early first round pick has to be a mistake. Even if all 3 of these players turn out to be the real deal; there is no way in hell you are going to be able to keep 3 All Star Wrs on the roster, so why draft them? Isn't this what we learned from the Steve Spurier experiment?

Marvin Lewis does not have a GM who wants to control the entire team. What the Lions are going to end up with is a "Yes" man for a head coach. So, this mean you should be looking at Coordinators that are hiding behind Head coaches. Example: Denver's Gary Kubiac comes to mind. Shanahan pretty much runs that offense, Kubiac is there just to fill a seat. A former Head Coach is probably out of the question.

It should be obvious to everyone that Millen does not have a clue when it comes to picking talent and something tells me there were some serious screaming matches going on between Millen and Mooch.

Another Question is Do you think the Mooch will go back to college? With Colleges now paying millions of dollars to their head coaches why would you ever leave? As a successful college head coach you have job security for the rest of your life if you want.

[st.cronin]

Another Question is Do you think the Mooch will go back to college? With Colleges now paying millions of dollars to their head coaches why would you ever leave? As a successful college head coach you have job security for the rest of your life if you want.

That's what I would do. Even a MAC team would probably pay him enough money to make it a nice life.

[Honolulu_Blue]

That was abominably long and I won't read it ...
A few paragraphs is "abominably long"? Well, you did go to State, so I'm sure you're used to more pictures with your words. http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Honolulu_Blue]

That's what I would do. Even a MAC team would probably pay him enough money to make it a nice life.
Mooch earned $5 million a season and is still due over $10 million more. He already has enough money to make a nice life. But I agree, going to a nice college program seems like a really good idea. Much less pressure. Good money. What's there not to like?

[gi]

A few paragraphs is "abominably long"? Well, you did go to State, so I'm sure you're used to more pictures with your words. http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/wink.gif
...looking for my beer before I can even understand this mess....(Central Grad)

[ice4277]

...looking for my beer before I can even understand this mess....(Central Grad)
Fire Up Chips!!!

[Schmidty]

A few paragraphs is "abominably long"? Well, you did go to State, so I'm sure you're used to more pictures with your words. http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/wink.gif

Nah, I'm just too lazy to read anything more than one or two short paragraphs. I generally peruse FOFC and skip over the novella-like posts, although I do read them if I have the time or desire. :)