Is this a loophole in professional football (real life)?

[Adamski47]

Correct me if I am wrong (I am pretty sure I am wrong).

Once you get a lead in a professional football game (NFL or NCAA) could you not keep playing 52 guys on defense, and getting subsequent 'too many men on the field penalties', to win the game?

All you would have to do is make sure the other team never ties it up or takes the lead. With 52 guys that shouldn't be a problem. Even with the penalty time still ticks off the clock doesn't it?

The only thing I could see is the other team eventually marching down the field, via penalties, to the 1 in line and then sneaking it in from there. Could 52 guys stop a QB sneak?????

I don't know why I thought of this. Enjoy! I'll be curious to see if this is possible!

[Easy Mac]

Game can't end on a defensive penalty.

[GrantDawg]

Game can't end on a defensive penalty.Then if you're up by more than 8, you still guarentee a win this way?

[Adamski47]

Game can't end on a defensive penalty.

Right, just play the last play of each half 11-11 and take your chances (pretty good odds).

[ThunderingHERD]

Right, just play the last play of each half 11-11 and take your chances (pretty good odds).

Pretty good odds when they're on the 1 inch line?

[Huckleberry]

So if you take a nine point or greater lead in the 4th quarter, that's what you're saying?

I'm sure there's a rule or interpretation regarding winding the clock after a penalty. If a team is committing a penalty simply to keep the clock winding, the refs probably have some authority to not wind the game clock.

[Adamski47]

So if you take a nine point or greater lead in the 4th quarter, that's what you're saying?

I'm sure there's a rule or interpretation regarding winding the clock after a penalty. If a team is committing a penalty simply to keep the clock winding, the refs probably have some authority to not wind the game clock.

That is what I am hoping.

[ThunderingHERD]

The penalty wouuld stop the clock, only the actual play time would tick off. Offense could kill the play in a second and march down to the goalline in < 1 minute. At which point you're giving them unlimited chances to try to poke the ball across. 52 men or no, I like what you're giving me if I'm on the offense.

[QuikSand]

Would the clock keep running penalty after penalty? (I don't think so)

[vex]

Could the other team decline the penalty?

[ThunderingHERD]

The penalty wouuld stop the clock

wouldn't it?

[Hurst2112]

Tecmo Bo could easily bust through 52 guys on the 1-inch line.

Or Tecmo Allen could do that cool dive...if Tecmo LT isn't on the team.

[ThunderingHERD]

Also, I the officials are allowed to assess penalties and disqualify players based on a "palpably unfair act."

[ThunderingHERD]

UNFAIR ACTS
COMMISSIONER'S AUTHORITY

The Commissioner has sole authority to investigate and to take appropriate disciplinary or corrective measures if any club action, nonparticipant interference, or emergency occurs in an NFL game which he deems so unfair or outside the accepted tactics encountered in professional football that such action has a major effect on the result of a game.

PENALTIES FOR UNFAIR ACTS
The Commissioner's powers under this section (UNFAIR ACTS) include the imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game's result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred. In the event of rescheduling a game, the Commissioner will be guided by the procedures specified above ("Procedures for Starting and Resuming Games" under EMERGENCIES). In all cases, the Commissioner will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity forhearings, use of game videotape, and any other procedures he deems appropriate.

I'd imagine that even if this strategy worked, (which I doubt it would) and the referees did nothing to stop it at the time, that you probably see the result reversed.

[sabotai]

On thing you are forgetting. The offense has total control over when the ball is hiked. They don't have to wait until the play clock goes down to 2 or 3 to hike the ball, thus starting the play.

You do the penalty, give up 5 yards, and then the offense is still right there. Once the ref's blow the whistle to resume the game (the clock is not running while they are announcing the penalty and respotting the ball), the offense sets up and hikes the ball. Would only take a few seconds off the game clock.

[Adamski47]

Cool cool, I was just trying to spark some conversation about it. I wasn't necessarily saying it would DEFINITELY work.

I'm just glad the NFL has their butts covered with that "we can change anything" rule. That is a good thing for sure!

[MacroGuru]

Unfair Acts



Commissioner’s Authority

The Commissioner has sole authority to investigate and to take appropriate disciplinary or corrective measures if any club action, nonparticipant interference, or emergency occurs in an NFL game which he deems so unfair or outside the accepted tactics encountered in professional football that such action has a major effect on the result of a game.

No Club Protests

The authority and measures provided for in this section (UNFAIR ACTS) do not constitute a protest machinery for NFL clubs to dispute the result of a game. The Commissioner will conduct an investigation under this section only to review an act or occurrence that he deems so unfair that the result of the game in question may be inequitable to one of the participating teams. The Commissioner will not apply his authority under this section when a club registers a complaint concerning judgmental errors or routine errors of omission by game officials. Games involving such complaints will continue to stand as completed.

Penalties for Unfair Acts

The Commissioner’s powers under this section (UNFAIR ACTS) include the imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game’s result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred. In the event of rescheduling a game, the Commissioner will be guided by the procedures specified above ("Procedures for Starting and Resuming Games" under EMERGENCIES). In all cases, the Commissioner will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity for hearings, use of game videotape, and any other procedures he deems appropriate.

There is also



15 Yards (and disqualification if flagrant)

8. Palpably unfair act. (Distance penalty determined by the Referee after consultation with other officials.)
As well as



Touchdown Awarded (Palpably Unfair Act) 1. When Referee determines a palpably unfair act deprived a team of a touchdown. (Example: Player comes off bench and tackles runner apparently en route to touchdown.)


That I am assuming that would fall under.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Once you get a lead in a professional football game (NFL or NCAA) could you not keep playing 52 guys on defense, and getting subsequent 'too many men on the field penalties', to win the game?
Guys, you all got served. CLEARLY, this is a trick question. They can't put 52 players in on defense. An NFL team can't have that many active players for one game!

You guys are slipping! :mad:

:D

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Well, if you're going to break the too many men on the field rule, you might as well break the active roster rule, maybe even put some guys in street clothes as well the GM, ball boy, trainer, and the cheerleaders.

[stevew]

Saw something similar to this topic, dont know if it was here or not. But supposedly after the 2nd major infraction, especially if its repetitive in nature and designed to "cheat the system", they can award a touchdown to the other team. This would keep you from doing something like keep jumping offsides just to run time off the clock, and taking a half the distance to the goal line penalty.

[Deattribution]

Saw something similar to this topic, dont know if it was here or not. But supposedly after the 2nd major infraction, especially if its repetitive in nature and designed to "cheat the system", they can award a touchdown to the other team. This would keep you from doing something like keep jumping offsides just to run time off the clock, and taking a half the distance to the goal line penalty.


Not to mention the 'you're fired' penalty from the owner after the game.

[TroyF]

Ok, lets say there was no special commissioners powers. The refs couldn't do anything.

You're the opposing team and you see them lineup 52 guys on the field.

What do you do? Well, you can't score. You'd get your QB killed if you tried to run a play. And obviously the longer you took to score, you'd end up hurting yourself, right?

So you do something to ensure the clock stops after every play. You walk up to the line, you snap the ball, you spike it into the turf. Every single play. That's about a second a play. Maybe two if your QB is a little slow.

Don't worry about stats, because the play won't count anyway. You could move the ball all the way up the field in under 30 seconds, no matter where you started on the field. And because each play ends in an incomplete pass, the clock stops every play.

I'm the offense? I dont' want the refs to do anything. Please, keep your 52 men on the field. I'll take 30 second drives anyday of the week.

[Ksyrup]

I want this to happen just so we get to hear the phrase "Palpably unfair act" announced during a game. Just like that penalty a few weeks ago on Sunday Night Football - something about "an unnatural act in the course of a football game." That was great.

Or maybe they can bring that one guy back and have him announce that the other team has committed a "palpably unfair act by attempting to give the other team the business by committing an unnatural act." That would be the Holy Grail of penalty calls.

[Butter]

Long, long ago, the Bengals played the Oilers (yes, the Oilers), and took 2 delay of game penalties to try and move back on a punt. Houston declined them both. On the third, the Bengals were assessed a 15 yard penalty for trying to draw a penalty. So after one or two times, you'd be talking 15 yards or half the distance every time. So it wouldn't take long for the other team to drive down the field and punch it in. You'd have to have a big lead, and there would have to be not much time left.

It would be safer just to play it the old-fashioned way.

[Toddzilla]

As far as the time issue goes, the Referee's would call the penalty as soon as the offense broke the huddle, so the clock would stop. They would not start the clock again until the ball was ready for play, which it would NEVER be as long as the defense had 53 guys on the field. Therefore the penalites would be marked off with no time coming off the clock.

[Ksyrup]

As far as the time issue goes, the Referee's would call the penalty as soon as the offense broke the huddle, so the clock would stop. They would not start the clock again until the ball was ready for play, which it would NEVER be as long as the defense had 53 guys on the field. Therefore the penalites would be marked off with no time coming off the clock.
I don't think that's true. I've never seen an "illegal substitution" call on the defense called before the play began. There are rules about who can be in the huddle - you can't send half the team out and then break the huddle and only keep 11 guys out on the field (is that a pro rule or college, I can't recall now) - but as far as the defense having 12 men on the field, it's always called right after the snap, the play goes forward, and then the penalty is dealt with after the fact. So the time from the play would run off the clock. Basically, it's like an offsides penalty versus an illegal procedure. One stops the play immediately; the other doesn't (assuming no unabated to the QB call).

[cthomer5000]

what if you had Randy Savage super slam the other team's QB?

[Samdari]

Ok, lets say there was no special commissioners powers. The refs couldn't do anything.

You're the opposing team and you see them lineup 52 guys on the field.

What do you do? Well, you can't score. You'd get your QB killed if you tried to run a play. And obviously the longer you took to score, you'd end up hurting yourself, right?

So you do something to ensure the clock stops after every play. You walk up to the line, you snap the ball, you spike it into the turf. Every single play. That's about a second a play. Maybe two if your QB is a little slow.

Don't worry about stats, because the play won't count anyway. You could move the ball all the way up the field in under 30 seconds, no matter where you started on the field. And because each play ends in an incomplete pass, the clock stops every play.

I'm the offense? I dont' want the refs to do anything. Please, keep your 52 men on the field. I'll take 30 second drives anyday of the week.

Right, plus infinite chances to score from the 1 inch line on a sneak - during which only maybe 10 guys can actually help stop you (the rest can't fit in the relevant space. Plus the fact that this would not actually melt time off the clock. Makes this a very inane strategy to attempt.

[Maple Leafs]

Semi-interesting story ... a well-known hockey coach actually came up with a similar strategy and used it in the minors. Roger Neilson realized that since a hockey team can never be more than two men short (any further penalties don't start until the first ones have ended), he could keep taking "too many men" penalties in the final minutes of a close game his team was leading. They eventually had to pass a new rule which allowed the ref to award a penalty shot in that situation.

(Of course, Neilson also came up with the idea of replacing the goalie with a defenceman fir penalty shots and having him charge the skater and strip the puck before he could get close enough to shoot...)

[Pumpy Tudors]

but but but guys they can't even have 52 or 53 guys in uniform :( :( :( :eek: :( :confused: :( :) :( :( :mad: :( :) :) :D :( :( :D :(

[gstelmack]

Just like that penalty a few weeks ago on Sunday Night Football - something about "an unnatural act in the course of a football game." That was great. Wait, I missed something. What happened?

[Neon_Chaos]

How about the offense being complete tools and fielding 52 men on the offense as well? :)

[rkmsuf]

just have both teams stand there. the team that leaves the field first loses.

[Pumpy Tudors]

guys :( :( :(

[Toddzilla]

I don't think that's true. I've never seen an "illegal substitution" call on the defense called before the play began. There are rules about who can be in the huddle - you can't send half the team out and then break the huddle and only keep 11 guys out on the field (is that a pro rule or college, I can't recall now) - but as far as the defense having 12 men on the field, it's always called right after the snap, the play goes forward, and then the penalty is dealt with after the fact. So the time from the play would run off the clock. Basically, it's like an offsides penalty versus an illegal procedure. One stops the play immediately; the other doesn't (assuming no unabated to the QB call).


Except that there would be 50+ guys on the field - I don't think the referees would - or should - wait for the snap in that case. As soon as the huddle was broken the the offense lined up, they'd blow the whistle before starting the game clock and assess a penalty. Now this may not happen the *first* time the penalty is called, but no way the referees would wind the game clock as long as 50 guys were on the field.

[rkmsuf]

Except that there would be 50+ guys on the field - I don't think the referees would - or should - wait for the snap in that case. As soon as the huddle was broken the the offense lined up, they'd blow the whistle before starting the game clock and assess a penalty. Now this may not happen the *first* time the penalty is called, but no way the referees would wind the game clock as long as 50 guys were on the field.


the clock would never wind anyway. the only time that could be run off the clock would be the time the offensive play was in motion after the snap. I guess what you'd do on offense is either just throw the ball into the ground and keep taking penalties until you are at the inch line. Then on every play try and score and if you fail, take the penalty and try again. Or you could kick a field goal which couldn't be stopped.

[Pumpy Tudors]

[...] you could kick a field goal which couldn't be stopped.
You don't think 45 guys could stop a field goal attempt?

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I thought about this too, but if you were on the one yard line, I think you get the center to snap the ball some 30 yards back, and kick before the players got there to block it. You might miss the first couple as the holder gets used to it, but since the defense keeps taking a penalty, you can keep trying until you finally get it. So, you don't even have to try and punch it in from the one-yard line.

Also, if it's the CFL, you could easily punt single points through the end zone.