Hal Lindsey with George Noory

[Bubba Wheels]

Happened to hear Hal Lindsey on Coast to Coast the other night. He is the best of the best. Anybody who really wants to see how Biblical Prophecy is coming about in the present before the soon return of Our Lord Jesus Christ might want to check out some of Lindsey's writings.

His book Late Great Planet Earth, which I read as a youth, was the first clue I had that there was a real plan of God in place for the past, present and future.

Lindsey is 76 years old and looks and sounds timeless. A blessed life from God for doing God's work, no less. Among some of his observations (Lindsey rightly denies he is a 'prophet', just someone who can interpret Bible Prophecy from studying it in the original languages) is that the Oslo Accords now being implemented between the Israelis and the Palestinians are setting the stage for the anti-christ to arise by actually being able to bring both peace. That's how it all gets started.

Way too much to get into here, but see for yourself if what Lindsey has been saying for over 40yrs is actually happening now or not. Look heaven-ward, our redemption draws near (paraphrased). Yeah, I know, its either totally nuts or absolutely true.

[Karlifornia]

Someone is going to be parting with his money soon

[BrianD]

Happened to hear Hal Lindsey on Coast to Coast the other night. He is the best of the best. Anybody who really wants to see how Biblical Prophecy is coming about in the present before the soon return of Our Lord Jesus Christ might want to check out some of Lindsey's writings.


Were you actually able to type the above text with a straight face? I couldn't get through it all without laughing.

[Bubba Wheels]

Were you actually able to type the above text with a straight face? I couldn't get through it all without laughing.

The post is meant to be thought-provoking just as the Bible and prophecy are in general. Unlike many other subjects, when it comes to the Bible there is no middle ground (though many foolishly try to create some.) Your response will be a common one I'm sure...hopefully some believers will also put their 2-cents worth in as well.

As to your specific response, all I can do is point to 1 Cor. 1:18 :)

[GrantDawg]

Yeah, he was right on about the Jesus returning in 1981 thing. What Lindsey is very good at is using current events to scare people into giving him more money.

[Cringer]

I take Lindsey the same way I take the chucacabra guy, with a Morton's factory full of salt.

There is also that other guy on the show who says dinosaurs are actually what dragons where in middle evil times, so that they were alive within the last 2000 years. This is because Earth was created only a few thousand years ago according to his figures based on the bible.

The satanist that has been on there was an interesting guy too.

And how does the chem-trails play into all this? Is our government spreading stuff in the atmosphere so we don't see Jesus when he returns?

Coast to Coast is a fun show. Too bad my AM radio blows in my truck the last year or two for some reason, and it isn't on Sirius, so I don't hear it much any more.

[Bubba Wheels]

I would also just add that Hal Lindsey is far from the only source on the matter, many many others all saying pretty much the same thing (Tim LaHaye and Jack Van Impe among others). Lindsey is just a personal favorite of mine.

[Crapshoot]

Oh good, Tim LaHaye said it- must be true. Bubba, does the tooth fairy talk to you as well ?

[Cringer]

I am not going to rip the guy for his belief of the bible. It is not my personal choice but I have no problem with what someone believes as long as they don't try to stuff it down my throat. I just get a kick out of using this guy as someone to preach to others the end is near.

Also, the end has been predicted since the time of Jesus. Every century was to be the last.

[Antmeister]

Excuse me Bubba, but are you an avid listener to Coast to Coast? I thought I was the only hardcore one here. I actually subscribed to their podcasting. Now it is not what you think. I like listening to the show because it is a great source for creativity, comedy, drama and some actually became mainstream news. I have been listening since Art Bell and usually use the shows for long road trips. I am especially fond of their topics on alternative energy, Coral Castle, and any info on Tesla.

[Cringer]

Excuse me Bubba, but are you an avid listener to Coast to Coast? I thought I was the only hardcore one here.

I was a hardcore listener. I always drive nights so it was a given. Listened just about every week night for the last 7-8 years, with the exception being the last year now because of the AM radio problem I mentioned on my truck.

[Bubba Wheels]

I am not going to rip the guy for his belief of the bible. It is not my personal choice but I have no problem with what someone believes as long as they don't try to stuff it down my throat. I just get a kick out of using this guy as someone to preach to others the end is near.

Also, the end has been predicted since the time of Jesus. Every century was to be the last.

"End times" really refers to everthing that came after the crucifixian and resurrection of Christ, also referred to as the 'church age' or 'age of grace."

Revelation and some other books (Daniel, ect.) have a kind of 'checklist' of things to look for right before Christ returns. The building of the Temple on the Mount in Jerusalem being one of the last.

While no man knows the 'exact day or hour' of Christ's return (hence those predicting specific dates are already wrong) Jesus did say that like the changing of the seasons signs would point in His direction shortly before He did return. Coast to coast is just a show, like the Daily Show. Lindsey being on the show is what made it worth listening to.

A prophecy within the Catholic Church predicted 200yrs ago that the last trusted Pope would be a Benedictine, which this present Pope is. The prediction says the next Pope would be a 'sell-out' to the anti-christ and his world system. Not to be taken in the same way as the Bible itself is, but interesting never-the-less.

[Antmeister]

I was a hardcore listener. I always drive nights so it was a given. Listened just about every week night for the last 7-8 years, with the exception being the last year now because of the AM radio problem I mentioned on my truck.

You need one as a Christmas present or something or at least an iPod with the speaker attachment.

[Bubba Wheels]

Excuse me Bubba, but are you an avid listener to Coast to Coast? I thought I was the only hardcore one here. I actually subscribed to their podcasting. Now it is not what you think. I like listening to the show because it is a great source for creativity, comedy, drama and some actually became mainstream news. I have been listening since Art Bell and usually use the shows for long road trips. I am especially fond of their topics on alternative energy, Coral Castle, and any info on Tesla.

Some of my favorite topics as well. Coral Castle is probably the most under-rated mystery in this country. I listen when I can. I remember hearing Lindsey on the show once before some time ago and was estatic to run across him the other night. Noory is a great interviewer too, asks good questions that advance the topic and not ego-centric ones to show how 'smart' he is.

[Cringer]

You need one as a Christmas present or something or at least an iPod with the speaker attachment.

iPod....mmm, or a Sirius S50 because it has MP3 abilities. Both a little too expensive for me though right now.

Anyways, at this point I am holding out until we get our new truck which should be early to mid 2006. Thats what the bosses say anyways. I hope it's soon. 700,000 miles and the little things, like the AM radio reception being horrible for no reason, start to build up and it sucks.

[Buccaneer]

Yeah, he was right on about the Jesus returning in 1981 thing. What Lindsey is very good at is using current events to scare people into giving him more money.
I go along with this. I remember the 1970s' end times hype very, very well. It goes in cycles as it has for centuries. It is sad that many within the body of believers chose to spend time looking and waiting for signs instead of actually doing the good works we are called to do.

[GrantDawg]

I go along with this. I remember the 1970s' end times hype very, very well. It goes in cycles as it has for centuries. It is sad that many within the body of believers chose to spend time looking and waiting for signs instead of actually doing the good works we are called to do.
Agreed.

[Bubba Wheels]

I go along with this. I remember the 1970s' end times hype very, very well. It goes in cycles as it has for centuries. It is sad that many within the body of believers chose to spend time looking and waiting for signs instead of actually doing the good works we are called to do.

Makes no sense. Why can't you do both? Doing both is actually what the Bible tells you to do.

[GrantDawg]

Makes no sense. Why can't you do both? Doing both is actually what the Bible tells you to do.

We are to look for his coming, just as Christian have done for 2,000 years. Jesus said He would come "as a thief in the night" meaning we will have no idea when He will come. Linsey and others are using and misusing prophecies that have been abused for 2,000 years. They were related to things in the first and second centuries (and some even before Christ), but they have twisted them for their own purposes. We are to always be ready, but not constantly looking for a new sign. Jesus' coming is in God's hand, but how we live this life is in ours.

[Buccaneer]

Makes no sense. Why can't you do both? Doing both is actually what the Bible tells you to do.
No, "being ready" is not looking for signs but have your heart ready. All of the references mentions "unexpected" as well as those "working". If your heart and mind is anxious for the end of the world, then you have lost your compassion and heart for others. Do not trouble your mind with worldly signs for that is not our business.

[Bubba Wheels]

We are to look for his coming, just as Christian have done for 2,000 years. Jesus said He would come "as a thief in the night" meaning we will have no idea when He will come. Linsey and others are using and misusing prophecies that have been abused for 2,000 years. They were related to things in the first and second centuries (and some even before Christ), but they have twisted them for their own purposes. We are to always be ready, but not constantly looking for a new sign. Jesus' coming is in God's hand, but how we live this life is in ours.

Yes, your point is based on one school of thought that those references in regards to prophecy took place in the first century. There are several different 'models', including pre and post rapture tribulation. But those that have studied the biblical transcripts in the original languages and believe the Bible as the Word of God usually tend to be 'pre-trib' rapture as Lindsey is.

Lindsey also commented on the word 'rapture' not being in the Bible. In fact it is, the word 'rapture' being derived from a Greek word meaning 'to snatch away' as Paul says we will be in 'the twinkling of an eye.'

So what happens when all these believers disappear? How does the anti-christ and others explain them not being here? Maybe that's what all this 'flying saucers' and 'alien abduction' stuff is all about. Laying a convincing groundwork for non-believers to feel good about being left behind. That's just speculation on my part.

[Chubby]

Yes, your point is based on one school of thought that those references in regards to prophecy took place in the first century. There are several different 'models', including pre and post rapture tribulation. But those that have studied the biblical transcripts in the original languages and believe the Bible as the Word of God usually tend to be 'pre-trib' rapture as Lindsey is.

Lindsey also commented on the word 'rapture' not being in the Bible. In fact it is, the word 'rapture' being derived from a Greek word meaning 'to snatch away' as Paul says we will be in 'the twinkling of an eye.'

So what happens when all these believers disappear? How does the anti-christ and others explain them not being here? Maybe that's what all this 'flying saucers' and 'alien abduction' stuff is all about. Laying a convincing groundwork for non-believers to feel good about being left behind. That's just speculation on my part.
:rolleyes:

The Flying Spaghetti Monster ate Jesus when he returned 5 years ago.

[Bubba Wheels]

No, "being ready" is not looking for signs but have your heart ready. All of the references mentions "unexpected" as well as those "working". If your heart and mind is anxious for the end of the world, then you have lost your compassion and heart for others. Do not trouble your mind with worldly signs for that is not our business.

As Jack Van Impe points out, there are five 'crowns' that believers can win thru Christ for eternity...one of them being that of 'looking' for Christ's return. Bible says everything in it is to be talked about, preached, ect., and to ignore any part of it doesn't mean you won't make heaven but it may cost you in other regards.

Point of interest: Noory: What was the point of man's creation?

Lindsey: I believe that man was created to settle an
dispute among God and another race (i'm reciting from
memory). Lucifer was created even more powerful than
archangels and, along with a third of the angels under him
(there are rankings in heaven) rebelled against God.

They were given a chance by God to repent and did not,
there judgement was sealed. Lucifer stood and accused
God of 'being without love for His creation." So God
created man "for a little while below the angels" who by
serving God show His loving nature and will be rewarded by
ruling and reigning in creation with Christ for ever after.

There are things in the Bible that do shed light and windows into this, and as such show there is so much more involved in God's plan than what most are willing to know about let alone study. But much also God says is 'for Him alone to know" at least for now. Faith in God is Trust in God, but not a blind trust as God wants you to 'study to show yourself approved.'

[GrantDawg]

Yes, your point is based on one school of thought that those references in regards to prophecy took place in the first century. There are several different 'models', including pre and post rapture tribulation. But those that have studied the biblical transcripts in the original languages and believe the Bible as the Word of God usually tend to be 'pre-trib' rapture as Lindsey is.

Lindsey also commented on the word 'rapture' not being in the Bible. In fact it is, the word 'rapture' being derived from a Greek word meaning 'to snatch away' as Paul says we will be in 'the twinkling of an eye.'

So what happens when all these believers disappear? How does the anti-christ and others explain them not being here? Maybe that's what all this 'flying saucers' and 'alien abduction' stuff is all about. Laying a convincing groundwork for non-believers to feel good about being left behind. That's just speculation on my part.

Most scholars that believe in the Word of God do not believe in a Pre, mid, or post rapture. Don't confuse those selling books as scholars, please.

[GrantDawg]

As Jack Van Impe points out, there are five 'crowns' that believers can win thru Christ for eternity...one of them being that of 'looking' for Christ's return. Bible says everything in it is to be talked about, preached, ect., and to ignore any part of it doesn't mean you won't make heaven but it may cost you in other regards.

Point of interest: Noory: What was the point of man's creation?

Lindsey: I believe that man was created to settle an
dispute among God and another race (i'm reciting from
memory). Lucifer was created even more powerful than
archangels and, along with a third of the angels under him
(there are rankings in heaven) rebelled against God.

They were given a chance by God to repent and did not,
there judgement was sealed. Lucifer stood and accused
God of 'being without love for His creation." So God
created man "for a little while below the angels" who by
serving God show His loving nature and will be rewarded by
ruling and reigning in creation with Christ for ever after.

There are things in the Bible that do shed light and windows into this, and as such show there is so much more involved in God's plan than what most are willing to know about let alone study. But much also God says is 'for Him alone to know" at least for now. Faith in God is Trust in God, but not a blind trust as God wants you to 'study to show yourself approved.'
There are things very twisted and misused that suggest these very fancifull theories. I love how you'll suggest that these men "believe the Bible" and then point out their constant theories that have very little to do with the actual Word.

[Bubba Wheels]

Most scholars that believe in the Word of God do not believe in a Pre, mid, or post rapture. Don't confuse those selling books as scholars, please.

Well, the only thing I would point out here is that while I will admit to being in one 'school of thought' on the matter its you who claim to have the 'absolute' final word on it. I would just suggest that those interested compare the different variations to decide for themselves. And yes, yours is just another variation of it. Are you saying that the 'rapture' is not in the Bible at all?

[GrantDawg]

As Jack Van Impe points out, there are five 'crowns' that believers can win thru Christ for eternity...one of them being that of 'looking' for Christ's return. Bible says everything in it is to be talked about, preached, ect., and to ignore any part of it doesn't mean you won't make heaven but it may cost you in other regards.

And then goes on to say "that's why you need to buy my books and send money to my television program. Because without me telling you this, you would never find it studying the Bible yourself. So, not sending me money will cost you a crown!"

I used to eat this stuff up like cake icing when I was younger. Every thing Lindsey, Van Impe and others that sold the last days as a bill of goods. That was untill I actually did an in depth study of the scriputre. Then I realized how badly these guys twist the scriptures to get their "interpretations." On top of that, if you read the things Lindsey was saying was "going to happen in the next few years" and what actually did happen, you'll find a great many never even came close. I honestly don't know how either of these guys even show their face after the Soviet Union fell since 90% of the signs they said was pointing to the end times hung on its existance.

[Bubba Wheels]

And then goes on to say "that's why you need to buy my books and send money to my television program. Because without me telling you this, you would never find it studying the Bible yourself. So, not sending me money will cost you a crown!"

I used to eat this stuff up like cake icing when I was younger. Every thing Lindsey, Van Impe and others that sold the last days as a bill of goods. That was untill I actually did an in depth study of the scriputre. Then I realized how badly these guys twist the scriptures to get their "interpretations." On top of that, if you read the things Lindsey was saying was "going to happen in the next few years" and what actually did happen, you'll find a great many never even came close. I honestly don't know how either of these guys even show their face after the Soviet Union fell since 90% of the signs they said was pointing to the end times hung on its existance.

Don't know about the Soviet Union, do know that the Russian people themselves (look at a world map, Moscow is direct north of Jerusalem) are prophesied to lead the first of three attacks on Israel with a coalition of Muslim nations...the most prominent being Iran. Read Pat Buchanan's latest column on Putin and the 'neo-coms.'

[GrantDawg]

Well, the only thing I would point out here is that while I will admit to being in one 'school of thought' on the matter its you who claim to have the 'absolute' final word on it. I would just suggest that those interested compare the different variations to decide for themselves. And yes, yours is just another variation of it. Are you saying that the 'rapture' is not in the Bible at all?
That the rapture that Lindsey and others teach is not in the Bible. The Resurrection of the Saints is in the Bible, but bears little resemblence to what Lindsey, Van Impe, and others have been selling for years.

[Bubba Wheels]

That the rapture that Lindsey and others teach is not in the Bible. The Resurrection of the Saints is in the Bible, but bears little resemblence to what Lindsey, Van Impe, and others have been selling for years.

And no anti-christ? Please, anyone can see the '666' thing coming together as a digital or 'chip' thing that will completely control commerce in the near future. "And that no man might buy or sell, save that he had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." Rev 13:17

The United Nations is already on record as stating that it wants control over the internet.

[Bubba Wheels]

Also ran across this after posting the Russia/Iran thing above. Just too much of it out there to ignore.http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/03/D8E947A00.html

[GrantDawg]

Also ran across this after posting the Russia/Iran thing above. Just too much of it out there to ignore.http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/03/D8E947A00.html

Which is exactly what everyone said in 1980.

[Bubba Wheels]

Possible good flick on the subject.http://www.officialgonemovie.com

[NoMyths]

It's...disturbing...to me how excited some "Christians" are at the thought that we might be in End Times.

It makes sense, but it's still disturbing. Frankly, I'd like to believe that I've got a reason to live besides being born to die.

[Schmidty]

Bubba, I suggest you read the Bible more often, and listen to garbage like "Coast to Coast" less often. The Bible clearly states that the coming of Jesus will come unexpectedly:

1 Thessalonians 5:1-2 1. Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2. for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

This is the most clear-cut example in the Bible that I can find (and there are MANY that I can quote you if you'd like):

Matthew 24:36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

The unfortunate fact that you include Jack Van Impe, of all people, in your argument makes you look foolish. He is a documented false prophet and deciever (along with the the likes of Hal Lindsey):

http://www.ministryserver.com/rwsr/part05_Famed_false_prophets.htm

This is what the Bible says about false prophets:

Matthew 7:15-20 15. Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17. Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

2 Timothy 4:3 3. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Bubba, you seem to be the type that wants, as Timothy says, "what their itching ears want to hear". I hope you don't take all of this offensively, but instead take it to heart.

[kcchief19]

Well reasoned and well said, Schmidty. I concur whole heartedly.

I would never try to mock someone for their sincere religious beliefs and hope they would treat me likewise. But you have to reexamine your logic threshold when you accept as fact claims from someone who has been wrong and acted in his own self-interest as many times as Lindsey has. Lindsey tries to use the Bible for judging his own claims; I think it's only reasonable to use the Bible as a standard for judging Lindsey in turn.

[st.cronin]

For some reason this thread makes me feel like that character in that novel by that russian author who says something like "I find it easy to believe in God; it's the world I find difficult to believe in."

[Bubba Wheels]

Schmidty, no offense taken at all, quite the opposite. I appreciate your thought-out answer. I would only point out 2 things:

1. Your approach always cites the scriptures that look at specific times and dates as unknown (and hence do not go sit ontop of a mountain top awaiting for Christ's return, that's not what He wants you to do but to continue advancing His Kingdom before His return.)

But your approach always overlooks the general warnings given such as 'the fig tree blooming' meaning the return of Jews to Israel and Israel existing (Bible interprets itself so this symbol of Israel is also used in othe places, unlike say the Spaghetti Monster )again after centuries of not being. The statement Jesus gives about end times themselves in the gospel about 'wars and rumours of wars' and such. About being able to discern the coming of a storm. Many more also. If I were Van Impe I could quote chapter and verse from memory. Did Van Impe ever claim that he was a prophet?

2. There is a presumption existing and perpetuated by some that democracy is the final 'promised land' for mankind on earth and that sooner or later all things and events will lead all countries there. I would question this very much. Democracy is a relatively new experiment that can be very fragile. Remember, Germany was a democracy when Hitler came to power. Democracy, while a fine way to be governed, is not a cure-all for the world's ills. Just look at what is happening inside of Russia's new 'democracy' along with Iran's.

Much more probabilty that concentration of power will take place as the world's 'norm' and dictatorship(s) and oligarchies will arise as as more stable. This makes belief in a coming 'anti-christ' and one-world government much more believable and probable to some than the 'pie-in-the-sky' fantasy of a world full of democratically elected governments. In this case I would argue the weight of history would back my view of coming events more than yours. Its just human nature. ;)

[NoMyths]

Isn't it possible that by nobody knowing the date and time we're set for our individual ends; none expecting, all surprised? Isn't it preparation in terms of getting right we're expected?

You're unwise, Bubba. Beware your pleasure in certainty.

[Bubba Wheels]

Isn't it possible that by nobody knowing the date and time we're set for our individual ends; none expecting, all surprised? Isn't it preparation in terms of getting right we're expected?

You're unwise, Bubba. Beware your pleasure in certainty.

Sorry, don't get this one at all. Bible says to 'work out your salvation..." in relationship with Christ as individuals since we will stand or fall before Christ as individuals. We worship corporately, but salvation is an individual thing.

I will either die or be raptured (as Enoch and Isiah are types of) with the other believers when Christ returns. Don't know which. But I am certain that God is in control of events, and that does give me much, much pleasure.

[NoMyths]

Then don't expect your prophet's words to ring true. You're not getting any closer to knowing the date and time.

You'll still be surprised by your end. As will I, and all.

[Ksyrup]

All this discussion about the religious beliefs of Barney Miller?!

[Bonegavel]

All this discussion about the religious beliefs of Barney Miller?!
You, my man, are on fire! Bravo.

[Bubba Wheels]

Then don't expect your prophet's words to ring true. You're not getting any closer to knowing the date and time.

You'll still be surprised by your end. As will I, and all.

There has already been more than once that my end would have come if God had not been large and in charge and wanting to keep me around. I have no problems letting Him handle the end times. Just think of it as fostering a 'sense of urgency' possibly even by His design to advance His Kingdom as swiftly as possible.

"Work while the sun shines as soon darkness will come when no man can work." Paraphrased. Van Impe would know chapter and verse. Don't think he ever did call himself a 'prophet', though, so not sure how someone else could call him a 'false' one.

[Bubba Wheels]

All this discussion about the religious beliefs of Barney Miller?!

Oddly enough, I think he did become a Christian!

[NoMyths]

Easy: False prophet.

You're drunk.

[Ksyrup]

You, my man, are on fire! Bravo.
Honestly, it was the first thing I thought when I saw the thread, and I thought that maybe he had a second life I had no clue about (because really, where's the guy been for the last quarter century?). Then I remembered it was Linden. Close enough for a joke, though. :D

[Bubba Wheels]

Easy: False prophet.

You're drunk.

This is getting too easy! Just what they said about Peter after Pentacost! Thanks for putting me in that company...but I think not. :D

Hal Linden did, though, become a born-again believer. He starred in some Christian-made movie about end times. Amazing but true!

Yes, Time-Traveler with Gavin Mcleod (or is it Mcloud?) the Love Boat Captain also a Christian.

[Bonegavel]

Honestly, it was the first thing I thought when I saw the thread, and I thought that maybe he had a second life I had no clue about (because really, where's the guy been for the last quarter century?). Then I remembered it was Linden. Close enough for a joke, though. :D
That is what made it funny to me. It was just close enough and when the bass-line of the theme song started in my head and just couldn't help but burst out laughing.

[Bonegavel]

This is getting too easy! Just what they said about Peter after Pentacost! Thanks for putting me in that company...but I think not. :D

Hal Linden did, though, become a born-again believer. He starred in some Christian-made movie about end times. Amazing but true!I appreciate the fervor that folks of your kind exude (former baptist here) but I don't understand how somebody can read the bible and come away with anything but the feeling that it is 100% hoo-ey.

I was brain-washed with this stuff from early childhood but once I started to look at the bible objectively, I couldn't believe that this book was used to teach people anything.

[NoMyths]

This is getting too easy! Just what they said about Peter after Pentacost! Thanks for putting me in that company...but I think not. :D

Hal Linden did, though, become a born-again believer. He starred in some Christian-made movie about end times. Amazing but true!

Yes, Time-Traveler with Gavin Mcleod (or is it Mcloud?) the Love Boat Captain also a Christian.And remember what else there is about Peter, friend.

Don't get comfortable in certainty. Or if you do, at least recall my warning from time to time.

[Schmidty]

I appreciate the fervor that folks of your kind exude (former baptist here) but I don't understand how somebody can read the bible and come away with anything but the feeling that it is 100% hoo-ey.

To me, that's very insulting, although not suprising coming from people who are not called to the faith.

I have met many, MANY extremely intelligent people who can be objective and be a follower of Christ at the same time. People confuse having no specific spiritual beliefs as being a measure of intelligence.

You are called, or you are not (yes I am a Calvinist, but I have no desire to get into it with Arminians ;) ). You can have intelligence and faith at the same time; however you cannot have pride and faith at the same time. Pride, not intelligence, is the destroyer of faith.

[NoMyths]

Really? I see plenty of pride and faith at the same time. Surely you aren't saying that the faith of those who exhibit such pride is suspect?

And yes, it's a loaded question. ;)

[Schmidty]

Did Van Impe ever claim that he was a prophet?

I have no idea if he ever uttered the words "I am a prophet", nor do I know if he thought that very thought; I do, however, know that his fruit shows that he is a false prophet and false teacher. The Bible condemns such people and advises us to avoid them more than we would the most venomous serpents. The fact that you subscribe to such sensationalists is a clear-cut and irreconcilable indictment of your beliefs in this thread, and your connection to such decievers.

Your point number 2, again, is mere speculation and doesn't seem to have a whole lot to do with what I was disputing. Interpretation of biblical passages is great. As we all know, a lot of Yeshua's greatest teachings were in the form of parables, but some are harder to discern. I am making no judgement whatsoever regarding Israel in parables; however, interpreting things specifically regarding when He will return and when the tribulation and such will commence is definitely wrong. The scriptures are quite clear about that.

I guess my bottom line is this: People such as Van Impe, Arnold Murray, Hal Lindsey, etc. are turning certain Christians into nothing more than conspiracy theorists and cosmic speculators. Hence, your frequent listening and belief in shows such as "Coast to Coast" is futile and sad. Christ's coming is more than an elusive quest for Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, the Grassy Knoll, or Area 51 - It is a promise and a mystery. To presume that you understand and can predict it, is to presume that you can understand the mind of God. To me, and according to His word, that is a sin, not a positive work.

[Schmidty]

Really? I see plenty of pride and faith at the same time. Surely you aren't saying that the faith of those who exhibit such pride is suspect?

The best part is that I don't have to speculate about such things, I simply have to read the Bible. God is the judge, not me.

I am a mere observer and sinner. I just do my very best, although I screw up all the time. I'm sure FOFC thinks I'm perfect though. ;)

[Buccaneer]

Schmidty, well said.

[Bonegavel]

To me, that's very insulting, although not suprising coming from people who are not called to the faith.

I have met many, MANY extremely intelligent people who can be objective and be a follower of Christ at the same time. People confuse having no specific spiritual beliefs as being a measure of intelligence.

You are called, or you are not (yes I am a Calvinist, but I have no desire to get into it with Arminians ;) ). You can have intelligence and faith at the same time; however you cannot have pride and faith at the same time. Pride, not intelligence, is the destroyer of faith.
That's another problem I have. You mention being "called to the faith." Do people need a phone call from God in order to "get it?"

Here is my 10,000 foot breakdown of the problem with the whole thing:

God knows everything. He has known, since before man was ever created, which human beings would wind up in Heaven and in Hell.

Example, Johnny Jones Sixpack esq. III is a man from Anytown USA and God knows, because he is omni-everything, that Johnny is going to wind up in Hell.

God knows that no matter what Johnny does in his life, that he is going to wind up in hell. Johnny isn't going to get the "call." Johnny doesn't have a prayer (pun intended).

What is the purpose of this? Why is God, omni-everything, running through this simulation where he knows the outcome? Why allow we humans to suffer as we do when we NEVER had a choice to be born or not.

Most bible-fearing folks answer me with, "hiow dare you try and understand the mind of God."

To which I'm like, "but why is it ok for you to understand him? If I, as somebody who doesn't believe, aren't allowed to understand God's intentions or motives, how is it that his followers somehow are able to?"

Which always brings you to the Bible and the ultimate excuse. Faith. We are supposed to give up all the senses that the creator gave us, and we are supposed to suppress all the brain power enabled by the organic computer's he has made, and accept belief in an invisible Man, his Dad, and a ghost?

The bible was written by men. Men are supposedly born wretched and whatnot. How can anything written by a man, regardless of it being inspired by God, be trusted?

But then you go back to folks saying that the bible, while created by man, was inspired by God and he basically guided it's later compilation by some Roman Ruler (up until then, the bible didn't exist, they were just a bunch of texts used by various churches).

Baptists, of which I WAS once, believe that unless you accept Jesus Christ into your heart, you are doomed to Hell.

Well, if Hell is missing King David who had a man murdered so he could sleep with his wife. Or missing Lot who offered up his daughters to a mob of angry men so that STRANGERS could be protected, etc. etc., then maybe I'm going to the better place after all.

Final thought...

Imagine you get to heaven where there is NO SUFFERING. You find out after you die that the Bible was absolutely right. You are now destined for an eternity of bliss and no more crying or gnashing of teeth or whatever (you know what i mean). God has come again. The earth is no more. It is time to praise god for eternity...

You look around and all of your children aren't there. Your Parents are missing. Your spouse or any other loved one, in this life, are not there either. Oops, you find out they didn't make it, they are in hell.

Can you be happy for eternity knowing that even 1 of your loved ones didn't make it?

God must perform a mind-wipe on all in heaven because I know I wouldn't stay there for 1 second if I found out that my beloved daughter didn't make it and I did.

Do I love my daughter more than God loves us?

[Warhammer]

A prophecy within the Catholic Church predicted 200yrs ago that the last trusted Pope would be a Benedictine, which this present Pope is. The prediction says the next Pope would be a 'sell-out' to the anti-christ and his world system. Not to be taken in the same way as the Bible itself is, but interesting never-the-less.

Actually, that list was developed during the Renaissance as a sort of satirical/PR move by the faction for one pope, can't remember which. Actually, the last Pope would be Peter the Roman who would just have a very short reign, there was nothing in the list itself about how he would be (besides his short reign).

[st.cronin]

That's another problem I have. You mention being "called to the faith." Do people need a phone call from God in order to "get it?"

Here is my 10,000 foot breakdown of the problem with the whole thing:

God knows everything. He has known, since before man was ever created, which human beings would wind up in Heaven and in Hell.

Example, Johnny Jones Sixpack esq. III is a man from Anytown USA and God knows, because he is omni-everything, that Johnny is going to wind up in Hell.

God knows that no matter what Johnny does in his life, that he is going to wind up in hell. Johnny isn't going to get the "call." Johnny doesn't have a prayer (pun intended).

What is the purpose of this? Why is God, omni-everything, running through this simulation where he knows the outcome? Why allow we humans to suffer as we do when we NEVER had a choice to be born or not.

Most bible-fearing folks answer me with, "hiow dare you try and understand the mind of God."

To which I'm like, "but why is it ok for you to understand him? If I, as somebody who doesn't believe, aren't allowed to understand God's intentions or motives, how is it that his followers somehow are able to?"

Which always brings you to the Bible and the ultimate excuse. Faith. We are supposed to give up all the senses that the creator gave us, and we are supposed to suppress all the brain power enabled by the organic computer's he has made, and accept belief in an invisible Man, his Dad, and a ghost?

The bible was written by men. Men are supposedly born wretched and whatnot. How can anything written by a man, regardless of it being inspired by God, be trusted?

But then you go back to folks saying that the bible, while created by man, was inspired by God and he basically guided it's later compilation by some Roman Ruler (up until then, the bible didn't exist, they were just a bunch of texts used by various churches).

Baptists, of which I WAS once, believe that unless you accept Jesus Christ into your heart, you are doomed to Hell.

Well, if Hell is missing King David who had a man murdered so he could sleep with his wife. Or missing Lot who offered up his daughters to a mob of angry men so that STRANGERS could be protected, etc. etc., then maybe I'm going to the better place after all.

Final thought...

Imagine you get to heaven where there is NO SUFFERING. You find out after you die that the Bible was absolutely right. You are now destined for an eternity of bliss and no more crying or gnashing of teeth or whatever (you know what i mean). God has come again. The earth is no more. It is time to praise god for eternity...

You look around and all of your children aren't there. Your Parents are missing. Your spouse or any other loved one, in this life, are not there either. Oops, you find out they didn't make it, they are in hell.

Can you be happy for eternity knowing that even 1 of your loved ones didn't make it?

God must perform a mind-wipe on all in heaven because I know I wouldn't stay there for 1 second if I found out that my beloved daughter didn't make it and I did.

Do I love my daughter more than God loves us?

My understanding of Heaven and Hell is quite a bit different than yours. Hell is seperation from God; there is no metaphor adequate to convey the pain of this. Heaven is reunion with God; in God all things are present, your daughter, your parents, good beer, TCY2, everything imaginable. It's not an either/or situation - your daughter is not either in hell or in heaven. She is, now and forever, joined with God. Heaven is not an afterlife in the sense that I think you are imagining; heaven is outside of time, or at the end of time.

'Damnation' theology has blossomed in this continent, but it is a historical abberation.

[Bonegavel]

My understanding of Heaven and Hell is quite a bit different than yours. Hell is seperation from God; there is no metaphor adequate to convey the pain of this. Heaven is reunion with God; in God all things are present, your daughter, your parents, good beer, TCY2, everything imaginable. It's not an either/or situation - your daughter is not either in hell or in heaven. She is, now and forever, joined with God. Heaven is not an afterlife in the sense that I think you are imagining; heaven is outside of time, or at the end of time.

'Damnation' theology has blossomed in this continent, but it is a historical abberation.
Actually, it isn't "my" understanding of heaven since I do not adhere to these beliefs.

I was brought up on, "When the Lord comes again, we will be brought up with him into heaven and we will praise God for eternity while the rest of man is sent into Hell, brimstone and all."

Before I totally denounced everything, I came to the conclusion that Hell was indeed simply the "absence of God" but that doesn't change the problem I laid out above. If I am with God and my daughter is in Hell, or Without God, we are still not together. Unless I am missing something there.

[st.cronin]

Actually, it isn't "my" understanding of heaven since I do not adhere to these beliefs.

I was brought up on, "When the Lord comes again, we will be brought up with him into heaven and we will praise God for eternity while the rest of man is sent into Hell, brimstone and all."

Before I totally denounced everything, I came to the conclusion that Hell was indeed simply the "absence of God" but that doesn't change the problem I laid out above. If I am with God and my daughter is in Hell, or Without God, we are still not together. Unless I am missing something there.

It is a problem that is difficult to resolve; the way I understand it is, everybody *is* in heaven - the Kingdom of God is everywhere and always and encompasses everything.

Being condemned isn't like being evicted from this Kingdom ... it's more like being there, but not understanding where you are.

You are also, I think, making the assumption that your mind is the same thing as your soul. But that's another discussion...

[RebelMan]

I take Lindsey the same way I take the chucacabra guy, with a Morton's factory full of salt.

There is also that other guy on the show who says dinosaurs are actually what dragons where in middle evil times, so that they were alive within the last 2000 years. This is because Earth was created only a few thousand years ago according to his figures based on the bible.

The satanist that has been on there was an interesting guy too.

And how does the chem-trails play into all this? Is our government spreading stuff in the atmosphere so we don't see Jesus when he returns?

Coast to Coast is a fun show. Too bad my AM radio blows in my truck the last year or two for some reason, and it isn't on Sirius, so I don't hear it much any more.

You arent missing much since Coast to Coast AM 's quality has tanked the past 2 years. It's on XM 165 if you are interested. The guests just arent though provoking anymore..

[bionicgrov]

A prophecy within the Catholic Church predicted 200yrs ago that the last trusted Pope would be a Benedictine, which this present Pope is. The prediction says the next Pope would be a 'sell-out' to the anti-christ and his world system. Not to be taken in the same way as the Bible itself is, but interesting never-the-less.

Where is your proof of this?

I am not saying that this isn't true, but I just don't want this to go unchallenged.

[Chubby]

Where is your proof of this?

I am not saying that this isn't true, but I just don't want this to go unchallenged.
I won't be hard on you since this wasn't included in the signup literature but, rule #23709 is "Don't ever ask bubbawheels for any sort of evidence to back up any of his claims". You will be stuck in a neverending spial of death where he provides absolutely nothing in proof yets destorys millions of your braincells.

[Bonegavel]

It is a problem that is difficult to resolve; the way I understand it is, everybody *is* in heaven - the Kingdom of God is everywhere and always and encompasses everything.

Being condemned isn't like being evicted from this Kingdom ... it's more like being there, but not understanding where you are.

You are also, I think, making the assumption that your mind is the same thing as your soul. But that's another discussion...
I am making that assumption. I never really thought that the 2 wouldn't be the same. Nice food for thought, though I don't see how my soul wouldn't be me—which I consider to be my mind, or the thinking part of me that is currently typing on this keyboard thinking about this matter.

As for the other stuff, it is remarkable how one book can be interpreted so many different ways. One would figure that God would've made things a bit clearer.

According to the interpretation of the bible I grew up with, if you didn't accept christ into your heart you were DOOMED. Catholics believe in purgatory, or something, where you can earn your way to heaven if you weren't drafted by heaven to go there in the first round.