Getting Carded

[Klinglerware]

Here is a question directed at those working in food service--

A while back, I got carded at a restaurant and was refused service because I had an out of state license. Obviously, I understand that it is within the restaurant's right to refuse service on those grounds. However, with that being said, do I have any recourse to request that the police come and run a check on my ID (which doesn't worry me since it is legit)? For those in the restaurant industry, have patrons requested this in the past?

P.S. We were pretty gracious about the whole thing, except for the end, where we decided to send the wait-person a message by stiffing her on the tip. I understand that the anger was misdirected and the waitress was probably just trying to do her job--but unfortunately, since management wasn't going to do a thing about it, the waitress became an easy target...

[GoldenEagle]

I thought this was going to be about soccer. I was going to spill all the silly times I got the yellow card.

[GreenMonster]

P.S. We were pretty gracious about the whole thing, except for the end, where we decided to send the wait-person a message by stiffing her on the tip. I understand that the anger was misdirected and the waitress was probably just trying to do her job--but unfortunately, since management wasn't going to do a thing about it, the waitress became an easy target...

We were pretty gracious about the whole thing, but we stiffed the wait person.. That is not being gracious at all, and its obvoius you haven't ever had a tip job in your life...

[Raiders Army]

Here is a question directed at those working in food service--

A while back, I got carded at a restaurant and was refused service because I had an out of state license. Obviously, I understand that it is within the restaurant's right to refuse service on those grounds. However, with that being said, do I have any recourse to request that the police come and run a check on my ID (which doesn't worry me since it is legit)? For those in the restaurant industry, have patrons requested this in the past?
You're talking about getting carded for alcohol, right?

[Klinglerware]

We were pretty gracious about the whole thing, but we stiffed the wait person.. That is not being gracious at all, and its obvoius you haven't ever had a tip job in your life...

Do you know that, for sure?

[st.cronin]

As I recall, there is usually some sort of log that you can fill out if they suspect your ID is no good.

But seriously, bro ... caling the police to check somebody's ID? You don't think they have better things to do?

[Klinglerware]

You're talking about getting carded for alcohol, right?

Yep.

[MacroGuru]

I have never been refused for this reason, to me, I am amazed...I am really curious as to how many people this has happened to.

[Klinglerware]

As I recall, there is usually some sort of log that you can fill out if they suspect your ID is no good.

But seriously, bro ... caling the police to check somebody's ID? You don't think they have better things to do?

Of course they have better things to do. But it's the principle--the restaurant doesn't believe that you are who you say you are. Why not up the ante if you know that you are right?

[GreenMonster]

Do you know that, for sure?

Well no, but most that work in the industry understand things like this aren't the waiters fault. You even mentioned this and then procedeed to take your anger out on the wait staff. If you had a problem with the wait service fine, but your problem was with management not letting you drink. Take your anger out on management and not the small guy....

[gottimd]

I look very young and so does my wife. We are constantly getting carded because we look like we are 16 even though we are in our late 20's. I always have my ID ready. I don't think its rude, and I understand the waiter/server/bartender/Casino Dealer/Pit Boss must do that. I wouldn't stiff them for tip as they are just doing their job as well as covering their own ass. As for being refused service, I usually carry all sorts of ID on me as well as backup because I know the question is coming.

It does get annoying when I am trying to gamble and they keep coming up to me and asking. As annoying as it is, I still have never even thought about stiffing on tip, unless the server never helps us and spills everything on us, and threatens to defecate in my food.

[sovereignstar]

That is pretty messed up. I have a ND license, but have rarely lived here since turning 21. Instead of cutting the tip, why didn't you just go to some other place?

[Raiders Army]

I have never been refused for this reason, to me, I am amazed...I am really curious as to how many people this has happened to.
Never happened to me and I always have an out-of-state license with no photo. (Pennsylvania in case you're wondering)

[sovereignstar]

I look very young and so does my wife. We are constantly getting carded because we look like we are 16 even though we are in our late 20's. I always have my ID ready. I don't think its rude, and I understand the waiter/server/bartender/Casino Dealer/Pit Boss must do that. I wouldn't stiff them for tip as they are just doing their job as well as covering their own ass. As for being refused service, I usually carry all sorts of ID on me as well as backup because I know the question is coming.

It does get annoying when I am trying to gamble and they keep coming up to me and asking. As annoying as it is, I still have never even thought about stiffing on tip, unless the server never helps us and spills everything on us, and threatens to defecate in my food.

Hey, babyface.

[gottimd]

Hey, babyface.
Hey sugar tits!

[gottimd]

My wife however, before she officially moved down here, had an out of state NY license, which was old and very easy to duplicate and looks fake. I remember a few times they didn't believe her, and her short italian temper flared up. She was irrate at the server for not believing her and I told her as I stated below that they are just doing their job, its not a personal vendetta against you to not allow you to have a good time.

[Klinglerware]

Well no, but most that work in the industry understand things like this aren't the waiters fault. You even mentioned this and then procedeed to take your anger out on the wait staff. If you had a problem with the wait service fine, but your problem was with management not letting you drink. Take your anger out on management and not the small guy....

Fair enough. (FWIW, I have worked food service and parking lot jobs where a significant proportion of my take home was via tips.)

The cynical flip side here is that we were also trying to giving the waitress something to think about re the cost-benefit analysis of strictly carding your patrons. Perhaps, in the long run, it may be more cost-effective to keep handling "questionable ID" strictly (i.e., the higher tip may not be worth the risk of serving someone who might not be legal, etc). But in the short run, she did lose our tip, and it's possible that she might be more lenient with the next person with an out-of-state license...

[Raiders Army]

Fair enough. (FWIW, I have worked food service and parking lot jobs where a significant proportion of my take home was via tips.)

The cynical flip side here is that we were also trying to giving the waitress something to think about re the cost-benefit analysis of strictly carding your patrons. Perhaps, in the long run, it may be more cost-effective to keep handling "questionable ID" strictly (i.e., the higher tip may not be worth the risk of serving someone who might not be legal, etc). But in the short run, she did lose our tip, and it's possible that she might be more lenient with the next person with an out-of-state license...
I thought from your original post that the manager made the call, not the waitress. Couldn't you have asked to talk to the manager then?

[st.cronin]

Of course they have better things to do. But it's the principle--the restaurant doesn't believe that you are who you say you are. Why not up the ante if you know that you are right?

That's not the correct interpretation at all. The restaurant doesn't believe that you have met the legal requirement to be served alcohol - not at all the same thing.

I've been in plenty of bars where out of state id was not considered valid. It's not at all unusual.

[gottimd]

I think they would rather lose the tip on one customer or maybe even a few, rather than lose their jobs and not get any tips at all, or any base pay either, no matter how little the base pay is.

I agree with others in this thread that it should've been taken up with management and the server shouldn't have been penalized for doing his/her job.

[Klinglerware]

I thought from your original post that the manager made the call, not the waitress. Couldn't you have asked to talk to the manager then?

The waitress could have made the call herself. We've eaten at that restaurant on several occassions, without incident. We did speak with the manager, and he was also in CYA mode--he basically told us that he wasn't going to do anything about it, but that we could lodge a complaint with corporate. We did so, and never got a response.

[GreenMonster]

Fair enough. (FWIW, I have worked food service and parking lot jobs where a significant proportion of my take home was via tips.)

The cynical flip side here is that we were also trying to giving the waitress something to think about re the cost-benefit analysis of strictly carding your patrons. Perhaps, in the long run, it may be more cost-effective to keep handling "questionable ID" strictly (i.e., the higher tip may not be worth the risk of serving someone who might not be legal, etc). But in the short run, she did lose our tip, and it's possible that she might be more lenient with the next person with an out-of-state license...

Glad to see you can admit some fault.. I still Valet park a couple of nights a week for extra cash so this hits home. As far the strict handling of Id's, I used to have your view on this also, till an ex-girlfriend sold cigs to an undercover at CVS in a college town (athens) and had to pay a huge fine and community service, as well as 2 weeks off work. Again its not worth it for the wait staff to take this chance in my opinion now.

[stevew]

I thought most establisments had a book with all of the ID's from other states which showed all of the earmarks required for them to be ruled as valid. As in the holograms, etc. Declining the ID based solely on it being out of state is pisspoor, and you should have left the restaurant. Was the picture significantly different looking than you? Next time talk to the manager, or the bartender, or someone who has a fuckin clue cause it seems your server did not. However, you should have tipped her if you chose to accept the conditions of staying there(her not liking your ID).

[Klinglerware]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I look pretty young for my advanced age, so I get carded frequently. However, this was the only time I was ever refused service after getting carded.

I realize that getting refused service is nothing personal, but it does sting a little to know that at some level, they don't trust you. Anyway, as far as bars go, I tend to stick to a few places where I can be known as a regular--that way, I can minimize the hassle to myself...

[GreenMonster]

Where in the CT do you live.. I grew up in South Windsor.. I do not miss the snow..

[Klinglerware]

I live in Norwalk, and I'm a relatively recent transplant from NJ--a state that (from what I've heard) has a relatively easy to forge drivers-license...

And yes, we do have snow coming today...

[GreenMonster]

I live in Norwalk, and I'm a relatively recent transplant from NJ--a state that (from what I've heard) has a relatively easy to forge drivers-license...

And yes, we do have snow coming today...

CT was also one of the 1st states to take major steps toward changing the license in order to make it harder to copy.

[Pumpy Tudors]

This past summer, I got my mother-in-law carded at a casino, but that was just the climax of a two-hour-long joke that I instinctively played on her.

[Vince]

That's interesting -- every place I've ever worked at that serves alcohol (many -- I'm a waiter and have been in the food industry for nearly a decade now) has a book that contains pictures of every state's licenses for verification purposes. To refuse simply on the grounds that the ID is from out of state seems quite ridiculous.

[lungs]

When I turned 21 I was out in California and went to a restaurant and they almost refused to serve me. According to their "book" all Wisconsin ID's should have a green outline for those over 21.

Well, seeing as how I turned 21 in California, mine was still the red outline for those under 21. The waitress couldn't understand the fact that I turned 21 a few days prior in another state and obviously couldn't just run down to the local DMV. Even so, my red outlined under 21 ID didn't expire until 2009 at which point I would be 27. After discussing it with a manager, they graciously served me my drink.

And I since lost that ID and got myself a green one.

[JeeberD]

Perhaps, in the long run, it may be more cost-effective to keep handling "questionable ID" strictly (i.e., the higher tip may not be worth the risk of serving someone who might not be legal, etc). But in the short run, she did lose our tip, and it's possible that she might be more lenient with the next person with an out-of-state license...

Bullshit. It's not worth the risk of going to jail, paying a huge fine, AND losing your job for serving a minor with a fake ID. If I have any question at all, they ain't getting booze.

However, we do have a book at work that shows pictures of IDs from every state, so it's easier for us to make that call. Since the manager said you should call corporate, it sounds like it was a major chain. No excuse for them not having the tools for the waitstaff to do their job properly...but it wasn't the waitresses fault and you were a jerk to have stiffed her.

[sovereignstar]

Jeeber is steaming. Best to just let him dola all he wants tonight.

[McSweeny]

That is pretty messed up. I have a ND license, but have rarely lived here since turning 21. Instead of cutting the tip, why didn't you just go to some other place?this has happened to me about 3 or 4 times, and each time i asked nicely if there was another package store in the area they could recommend. after a brief pause they always say something like "well we USUALLY can't do this, but we'll make an exception this one time"

[Rizon]

I was carded for cigarettes and the guy behind the counter refused to believe it was me. I needed my fucking nicotine so I let him have it. He eventually gave in.

You can bully restaurant managers quite easily, but you'll get jizz wads and insects in your food. So if the alcohol is worth some kids thick nut, go for it.

If it were me, and I were able to, I would have just simply left the restaurant.

[Rizon]

but it wasn't the waitresses fault and you were a jerk to have stiffed her.

Are you making a jab at his manhood? Maybe she liked it.

[Joe]

Jeeber cards like a motherfucker

[Klinglerware]

Yes, it was a pretty jerky thing to do, but I don't regret it. Everybody at my table had worked food service at some point in our lives, so we certainly knew the meaning and value of that tip to the wait person--everyone at the table was in agreement that this was the appropriate course of action, and the others at the table were more out for blood than I was. I didn't really argue with the manager when he said he couldn't do anything for us, so in the end the waitperson probably did assume we were a bunch of minors with fake IDs.

Anyway, this whole tipping thing obscures my original question--I don't see why I have to try to intimidate the manager or the waitress if my ID is legitimate in the first place. So why can't I just ask for the restaurant to run or get the police to run my license number, I certainly have nothing to hide.

[st.cronin]

Why do you only have 1 ID? When I go out I have 3, not including credit cards with my name on it.

[stevew]

Jeeber cards like a motherfucker
Either you card like a motherfucker, or get you fucked like a manwhore.

[Shepp]

Here is a question directed at those working in food service--

A while back, I got carded at a restaurant and was refused service because I had an out of state license. Obviously, I understand that it is within the restaurant's right to refuse service on those grounds. However, with that being said, do I have any recourse to request that the police come and run a check on my ID (which doesn't worry me since it is legit)? For those in the restaurant industry, have patrons requested this in the past?

P.S. We were pretty gracious about the whole thing, except for the end, where we decided to send the wait-person a message by stiffing her on the tip. I understand that the anger was misdirected and the waitress was probably just trying to do her job--but unfortunately, since management wasn't going to do a thing about it, the waitress became an easy target...


You can call the police, but they will not force a private business to serve you. It is the right of any business to refuse service to anyone they wish.

[Dutch]

P.S. We were pretty gracious about the whole thing, except for the end, where we decided to send the wait-person a message by stiffing her on the tip.

I'm imagining gracious in a Jerky Boys sort of way...

[DaddyTorgo]

exactly. if this ever happened to me i'd just stand up and leave. i'd make it clear in a polite and respectful way TO THE MANAGER why i was leaving. and that's it.

[Klinglerware]

I'm imagining gracious in a Jerky Boys sort of way...

Try a little reading comprehension. We were gracious until the end by keeping our cool and not making a scene, as I stated we were ungracious at the end by going the passive-aggressive route.

In any case, just getting up and leaving just seems like giving in to me--it indicates to the waitstaff that I probably did have a fake ID...

[Klinglerware]

You can call the police, but they will not force a private business to serve you. It is the right of any business to refuse service to anyone they wish.

I'm not asking the police to make the business do anything. All I am asking for is that they authenticate my identity. If the restaurant still refuses to serve me, than at least it is due to their intractability, and not due to questions about my true identity.

[Klinglerware]

Why do you only have 1 ID? When I go out I have 3, not including credit cards with my name on it.

That's a good idea, but what other picture IDs are acceptable aside from a drivers license and a passport?

[st.cronin]

That's a good idea, but what other picture IDs are acceptable aside from a drivers license and a passport?

What else do you need? With those two plus a ss card, and your credit cards, I would think you'd have no problem establishing who you are.

[Joe Canadian]

Of course they have better things to do. But it's the principle--the restaurant doesn't believe that you are who you say you are. Why not up the ante if you know that you are right?

Because the police have better things to do than come check your ID so you can have a beer.

[kruseman]

If they go by a credit card and s.s. card, they could be in just as deep of trouble. They don't even have pictures on them. Sure a driver's license has one, but if they don't think that is legit, what is a credit card or s.s. card with a name going to do? They could be stolen.

This happened to my brother in Arizona, and there was a cop there so he asked, and they wouldn't even look at it, so they might not even check it(unless the cop was just being a prick).

Any place that serves alcohol should know what an i.d. in each state looks like. I can't say that I blame you for stiffing the waitress on the tip. I probably wouldn't have, but know many people that wouldn't think twice about it. I also agree that you shouldn't have to intimidate the manager in order to get served....what's the difference between a 21 year old and a 19 year old intimidating the manager into serving him/her alcohol?

I guess it all depends on how different you looked at the time, and the time of the photo. Most times, after a drastic haircut or something, the i.d. may look very different.

[Desnudo]

You can actually call the police and have them validate your id and that you are of legal drinking age. My friend did it at Penn State when a bar refused to let her in and they threatened to take her id. Whether it's worth your time is another question since you'd probably be done with dinner by the time the police arrived.

[daedalus]

Most establishment would have the books of IDs. They usually get them from the liquor company that supplies the booze to the place. As Jeeber said, it's the establishment's and managers' faults for not having the tool (the ID book) available to the person. Speaking to the GM and the Regional would have been the superior and far more gracious thing to do. Stiffing the server on the tip is just being spiteful, immature and asshole'ish.The waitress could have made the call herself. We've eaten at that restaurant on several occassions, without incident. We did speak with the manager, and he was also in CYA mode--he basically told us that he wasn't going to do anything about it, but that we could lodge a complaint with corporate. We did so, and never got a response.Wrong. The waitress could NOT have made the call herself. If she tried to (make that call herself), she could have been and definitely SHOULD have been written up and documented. She has no right to screw with the establishment's liquor license. If whatever state organization was in the place and someone WITHOUT an ID was served, the establishment would have been fined and the server AND the manager would have both been in trouble. In your case where they are not sure about your ID, the only choice they had, short of taking your ID, was to have refused to serve you alcohol.Fair enough. (FWIW, I have worked food service and parking lot jobs where a significant proportion of my take home was via tips.)

The cynical flip side here is that we were also trying to giving the waitress something to think about re the cost-benefit analysis of strictly carding your patrons. Perhaps, in the long run, it may be more cost-effective to keep handling "questionable ID" strictly (i.e., the higher tip may not be worth the risk of serving someone who might not be legal, etc). But in the short run, she did lose our tip, and it's possible that she might be more lenient with the next person with an out-of-state license...As said before, it's not her choice to "make that call" to be lenient. Both her and the establishment could have had legal ramification from that leniency. The only "message" you sent was, "Hey, I'm an asshole."

[Schmidty]

Fair enough.

No it's not.

I was a waiter for a few years, and worked my ass off. I was stiffed on occasion and was pissed, but there was always a reason (sometimes a bad reason);however, I never refused service to someone because of an out-of-state license, even if it was an unwritten rule (and I don't know any other wait staff that did). My job was to give excellent service, not be a stickler on interstate license laws.

I would have stiffed the wench too. And, I would have kicked the manager in the ass and called the home office and insulted the receptionist before telling the Vice President of Fucking-Over-Customers to stuck my left nut.

[JeeberD]

I didn't really argue with the manager when he said he couldn't do anything for us, so in the end the waitperson probably did assume we were a bunch of minors with fake IDs.


In any case, just getting up and leaving just seems like giving in to me--it indicates to the waitstaff that I probably did have a fake ID...


:rolleyes:

[st.cronin]

The waitress could NOT have made the call herself. If she tried to (make that call herself), she could have been and definitely SHOULD have been written up and documented. She has no right to screw with the establishment's liquor license.

This is not necessarily true. Different states put the legal burden in different places, but generally both the individual server *and* the establishment have legal liability (as well as potential civil liability) for the same incident, which is why many bars/clubs have an ID check at the door. I speak with some expertise, having managed bars in two different states. Also, it appears from the story that the waitress did have the support of management.

If they go by a credit card and s.s. card, they could be in just as deep of trouble. They don't even have pictures on them. Sure a driver's license has one, but if they don't think that is legit, what is a credit card or s.s. card with a name going to do? They could be stolen.


I was only suggesting that possessing multiple IDs, even non-photo IDs, would go a long way to preventing this sort of incident. When I go out, I have my passport, my driver's license, my ss card, and multiple credit cards, as well as an (expired) military ID (which technically I'm not allowed to have, but I operate on the theory that you never get rid of an ID). My girlfriend actually carries her birth certificate. My point is that if you go ask for a beer with an out of state license and nothing else, you're asking for trouble. Yes, there is a book behind each bar showing each state's drivers license: Do you realize how many notifications from law enforcement bars get about different states licenses being copied in your area? At one point in Wisconsin, we were not taking out of state licenses from 5 different states as proof of age - because there was a known ring of forgers operating, making those licenses for sale. Perhaps a similiar situation was in place here.