OOTP 2006 : 10 new screenshots release today

[jbmagic]

Ten new screenshots

http://www.ootpbaseballmanager.com/screenshots.php?view=all&m=12&y=2005

[jbmagic]

wow

the team strategy is very in depth

[stevew]

Looks great, hopefully it actually plays like a baseball game this time.

[lighthousekeeper]

wow. just wow. looking forward to this more than anything.

it'll be weird playing ootp in football manager's clothing.

[Antmeister]

Okay, I will probably go back to playing OOTP after seeing this. I can't wait to hear reviews on this when it comes out. Very interesting indeed.

[SackAttack]

what the hell is a stats "double split"?

[Toddzilla]

Wait - are these OOTP7 screenshots or - as the graphic on the pages suggest - OOTP Baseball Manager 2006 screenshots?

[MizzouRah]

Doesn't SI have player licenses with their two games EHM and FM?

Wonder if they'll ever get an MLB license? Not that it matters to most, I'm sure.. just curious.

[miked]

what the hell is a stats "double split"?
Isn't it that annoying thing you hear on TV when they are talking about how well Manny does at home vs. LHP when the count is 2-1 :p :p

[George]

Looks very good.

[Sweed]

Doesn't SI have player licenses with their two games EHM and FM?

Wonder if they'll ever get an MLB license? Not that it matters to most, I'm sure.. just curious.


I know they tried so I'm sure they would like to in the future as it would help to expand the game to the average gamer. Too bad the uneducated don't know that the fan made rosters are as good or probably better than anything most game companies make.

[spleen1015]

what the hell is a stats "double split"?

You have single split stats, vs. LHP and vs RHP.

Now you can have double splits, vs LHP in April.

[spleen1015]

Doesn't SI have player licenses with their two games EHM and FM?

Wonder if they'll ever get an MLB license? Not that it matters to most, I'm sure.. just curious.

I believe one of the blogs says that they aren't going to have an MLB license.

[spleen1015]

Wait - are these OOTP7 screenshots or - as the graphic on the pages suggest - OOTP Baseball Manager 2006 screenshots?

OOTP:BM2K6 = OOTP7

[kcchief19]

Isn't it that annoying thing you hear on TV when they are talking about how well Manny does at home vs. LHP when the count is 2-1 :p :p I believe those would would triple stats. Good luck getting that out of the game. http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/cool.gif

Seriously, I'm cautiously very optimistic. I think it's unfair Markus et al to heap to too many expectations on a what is essentially going to be a first generation game. The screen shots are impressive -- it definitely has a FM look to it. That might be overpowering to some -- there's a lot of minutae buried in there -- but it looks as if there there is a lot to like for hardcore baseball types.

[gstelmack]

I can't read any of the text when viewing those images in Firefox. Scaling has mushed up all the characters.

[Cringer]

I can't read any of the text when viewing those images in Firefox. Scaling has mushed up all the characters.

It's the same in my IE I am using right now...

[Ksyrup]

Given that I haven't been able to get into either FM (understandable; I don't care for soccer) or EHM (worrisome; I do like hockey), I have very little hope that I will want to buy this game. I just feel "lost" in SI Games - no real directon, no understanding of what I'm supposed to be doing next ,etc. - which might be because of the European flavor of both soccer and hockey, or it might be the way the game itself is set up. I was surprised that I reacted the same way to a hockey game as I did to their soccer game, so that leaves me feeling pretty pessimistic about an SI baseball game.

[lighthousekeeper]

I just feel "lost" in SI Games - no real directon, no understanding of what I'm supposed to be doing next ,etc.

Have you considered the prospect that you're just dim-witted? :)

[Ksyrup]

I'm not smart enough to come up with such a novel approach to my problem.

I haven't tried either game in quite a while, so I don't remember much, I just don't like the day-by-day crawl of the game, and the seemingly endless number of leagues and players to scout. I think "overwhelmed" is the best way to describe it. And when you add in all of the stuff about the transfer system that I'm not used to or interested in, I just had little interest in playing.

No offense to Marc or anything; obviously the game is hugely popular. It's just my personal preference and likes/dislikes.

[JeffR]

I can't read any of the text when viewing those images in Firefox. Scaling has mushed up all the characters.

Even on the really big images? Looks fine to me. (Click on the second picture you get to see the third big one, if you haven't tried that.)

[Ben E Lou]

what the hell is a stats "double split"?The thing I'm most curious to see is if the splits actually matter. In other words, in a computer game, if my guy hits .425 in day games and .270 in night games, that's only meaningful if it is because of a particular attribute that he has that causes it to happen. Otherwise, it is just fluff. Similarly, if John Jones is 8 for 15 in his career against Joe Johnson, it is just fluff unless there is something about Johnson that makes him particularly vulnerable to Jones--like maybe Jones a hidden or revealed "quick bat" attribute that gives him a little bonus against pitchers with velocity >90 and movement <60, or something like that.

[stevew]

The thing I'm most curious to see is if the splits actually matter. In other words, in a computer game, if my guy hits .425 in day games and .270 in night games, that's only meaningful if it is because of a particular attribute that he has that causes it to happen. Otherwise, it is just fluff. Similarly, if John Jones is 8 for 15 in his career against Joe Johnson, it is just fluff unless there is something about Johnson that makes him particularly vulnerable to Jones--like maybe Jones a hidden or revealed "quick bat" attribute that gives him a little bonus against pitchers with velocity >90 and movement <60, or something like that.
Yep. OOTP has a bad habit of having guys kill one particular side of pitching one year, and then the next year be merely average or poor vs it. So therefore its pretty hard to tell whether most numbers are flukes, or par for the course. I'd definately expect swings in real life, but there should be more constants.

[lynchjm24]

The thing I'm most curious to see is if the splits actually matter. In other words, in a computer game, if my guy hits .425 in day games and .270 in night games, that's only meaningful if it is because of a particular attribute that he has that causes it to happen. Otherwise, it is just fluff. Similarly, if John Jones is 8 for 15 in his career against Joe Johnson, it is just fluff unless there is something about Johnson that makes him particularly vulnerable to Jones--like maybe Jones a hidden or revealed "quick bat" attribute that gives him a little bonus against pitchers with velocity >90 and movement <60, or something like that.


Well most of that crap doesn't really matter in real life, so I don't see why the game would be any different.

[Ben E Lou]

Well most of that crap doesn't really matter in real life, so I don't see why the game would be any different.You're probably right, although Earl Weaver swore by it. He'd pinch hit a lefty with a lefty pitcher on the hill because he had a notecard telling him that his left was hitting .375 off that particular pitcher. It may have been blind luck, it may have been that his players responded well to his having confidence in them, or there may have been something to the way a particular batter "reads" a particular pitcher.

[Crapshoot]

You're probably right, although Earl Weaver swore by it. He'd pinch hit a lefty with a lefty pitcher on the hill because he had a notecard telling him that his left was hitting .375 off that particular pitcher. It may have been blind luck, it may have been that his players responded well to his having confidence in them, or there may have been something to the way a particular batter "reads" a particular pitcher.

eh - Weaver believed in general platoon splits, which are real - in general, I believe RH hit about 9% vs lefties than LH. He didn't do it so much on batter-pitcher interactions, but more on the general split.

[Ben E Lou]

eh - Weaver believed in general platoon splits, which are real - in general, I believe RH hit about 9% vs lefties than LH. He didn't do it so much on batter-pitcher interactions, but more on the general split.Are you sure about that? I thought I remembered reading in a book by either him or Johnstone or Lee or Luciano that he'd go against "the book" based on batter-pitcher matchups, but I confess that it has been a decade or so since I read any of those particular books.

[MizzouRah]

I believe those would would triple stats. Good luck getting that out of the game. http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/cool.gif

Seriously, I'm cautiously very optimistic. I think it's unfair Markus et al to heap to too many expectations on a what is essentially going to be a first generation game. The screen shots are impressive -- it definitely has a FM look to it. That might be overpowering to some -- there's a lot of minutae buried in there -- but it looks as if there there is a lot to like for hardcore baseball types.
Merry Christmas!

[vtbub]

Does it play baseball, or a game that resembles baseball. Stats are pretty, but OOTP's engine and AI need plenty of work.

[Ben E Lou]

Does it play baseball, or a game that resembles baseball. Stats are pretty, but OOTP's engine and AI need plenty of work.[Gordon Solie]...and that remains to be seen![/Gordon Solie]

[gstelmack]

Even on the really big images? Looks fine to me. (Click on the second picture you get to see the third big one, if you haven't tried that.)What really big images? I stepped through them all, and it looks like they're all scaled to fit in whatever window they're in. None of them look particularly big (and I do mean after clicking a thumbnail to see just that one picture with the previous and next buttons available).

[Crapshoot]

Yeah, the bullpen AI was simply god-awful. the greater hard-coding suggested might help - if I can designate specific relievers for specific situations, it would get around it.

[Huckleberry]

Click on the image again (on the screen with previous and next buttons).

[AgustusM]

when I discovered OOTP 2 - I thought I had died and gone to heaven.

having wasted most of my youth playing strat-o-matic and APBA this game was incredible.

version 3,4 and 5 just got better and better and better.

then the train wreck of a merger with .400 and a surprisingly disappointing v6 and 6.5 have left me wary of this new merger and new interface.

I loved the old interface and would have preferred to see some improvements done to long time issues and new ones (damn sound problem!) as opposed to a total overhaul.

OOTP has gone from a game I played almost every week to a game I will probably try next year when it comes out.

[SackAttack]

You have single split stats, vs. LHP and vs RHP.

Now you can have double splits, vs LHP in April.

Oh. Splitting the split. Gotcha.

[jbmagic]

Doesn't SI have player licenses with their two games EHM and FM?

Wonder if they'll ever get an MLB license? Not that it matters to most, I'm sure.. just curious.

Marc Duffy said no

[kingfc22]

Double splits...drool



That could be great for an in-depth dynasty.

[gstelmack]

Click on the image again (on the screen with previous and next buttons).Ah. Yeah, that looks better. Completely unintuitive, but better.

[SnowMan]

The thing I'm most curious to see is if the splits actually matter. In other words, in a computer game, if my guy hits .425 in day games and .270 in night games, that's only meaningful if it is because of a particular attribute that he has that causes it to happen. Otherwise, it is just fluff. Similarly, if John Jones is 8 for 15 in his career against Joe Johnson, it is just fluff unless there is something about Johnson that makes him particularly vulnerable to Jones--like maybe Jones a hidden or revealed "quick bat" attribute that gives him a little bonus against pitchers with velocity >90 and movement <60, or something like that.In one of the blogs, Markus mentioned that the pitcher vs batter stats do matter, because of a (ugh) hidden rating. Hopefully, all these hidden things will be revealed when you turn on the editor to help out the roster makers.

[SnowMan]

Dola:
And it does not end here. When you have set the stats detail of a league to very high, the game tracks batter/pitcher match-ups, so you can see how a hitter fared against each pitcher he faced during his entire career! And this isn’t cosmetic. Some hitters just own certain pitchers and vice/versa. So when your catcher is just 2 for 30 against the opposing starting pitcher, it might be a good idea to give him the day off and start the backup.

[st.cronin]

Are you sure about that? I thought I remembered reading in a book by either him or Johnstone or Lee or Luciano that he'd go against "the book" based on batter-pitcher matchups, but I confess that it has been a decade or so since I read any of those particular books.

Weaver had his hitters divided into not just left-right but how they hit against power pitchers or control pitchers, high ball pitchers or low ball pitchers, etc. He had certain players that he would play against certain types of pitchers.

He also reversed today's mode of thought on what to do with defensive specialists. Weaver would have started Belanger or Dempsey, and then the first time they came up with men on base or leading off an inning, pinch hit for them. This gets a lot more mileage out of a glove than sticking them in the 9th inning with a lead and a strikeout pitcher on the mound (your typical use of a glove these days).

[lynchjm24]

In one of the blogs, Markus mentioned that the pitcher vs batter stats do matter, because of a (ugh) hidden rating. Hopefully, all these hidden things will be revealed when you turn on the editor to help out the roster makers.


Allow me to quote Bill Walton. HORRIBLE

[riz]

I'm not smart enough to come up with such a novel approach to my problem.

I haven't tried either game in quite a while, so I don't remember much, I just don't like the day-by-day crawl of the game, and the seemingly endless number of leagues and players to scout. I think "overwhelmed" is the best way to describe it. And when you add in all of the stuff about the transfer system that I'm not used to or interested in, I just had little interest in playing.

No offense to Marc or anything; obviously the game is hugely popular. It's just my personal preference and likes/dislikes.

There's really nothing I can do about the day-to-day advancement in EHM. It has been there right from the start because that's how I saw real GM's go by their business when starting the original game. Day at a time. Yes, compared to a baseball sim where you put together a team and then push the "Sim Season" button, it feels like a crawl. But then again, I personally would not like to call that "managing" really :)

As for the amount of leagues and players to scout, yes, it is different in hockey and soccer as these sports are more widespread sports than baseball or football (the american one), especially if you consider the diversity of nationalities playing in the top leagues. We don't even have all the leagues in that are featured in the real world, but you can be sure that real GM's have to spread their scouting network to cover even more leagues. However, if you feel overwhelmed by the number of leagues, teams and players, why not try a short EHM career started with just the NHL selected as a playable league and with minimum database size ? The game runs a lot faster, there are less players to scout and no leagues outside of your own to worry about. At the end of the day, it is not necessary to select every possible league to be simulated in the game. It's all up to the user...however, I think about 80% of the users just click "Select All Leagues" without thinking if they really need them and how it affects the speed of the game :)

Edit: Sorry for the OT stuff. Now get back to talking about the wacky sport with bats :)

[Ksyrup]

Honestly, I didn't mean that as a criticism of the SI games, I was just unable to get into them at all. I tried, though. That's about all you can ask of a potential customer, right?

[Crapshoot]

Are you sure about that? I thought I remembered reading in a book by either him or Johnstone or Lee or Luciano that he'd go against "the book" based on batter-pitcher matchups, but I confess that it has been a decade or so since I read any of those particular books.

You may well be right - but I do know that one of the reasons statheads like Weaver is his willingness and tendency towards understanding platoon splits, and using a player where he had the ability to succeed. He may well have done what you suggested as well- Weaver was one of the best managers, ever, IMO.

[riz]

Honestly, I didn't mean that as a criticism of the SI games, I was just unable to get into them at all. I tried, though. That's about all you can ask of a potential customer, right?

No worries, I just thought I'd try to help out by offering my view and a possible solution that might make it easier for you to get into the game as a potential customer :)

As you said, people have their own personal tastes, and especially with games like these if you've gotten used to a certain way of playing, the learning curve to pickup something that has a different approach might be a bit steep. Sometimes it is helpful to come by posts such as yours, since it helps us understand why some people just don't "get" our games or "get into them" like others. And to broaden the appeal, we naturally need to work on those issues. And bringing different sports and concepts under the SI label will in the long run help us make all our games more accessible for a wider audience with different preferences.

[lynchjm24]

As you said, people have their own personal tastes, and especially with games like these if you've gotten used to a certain way of playing, the learning curve to pickup something that has a different approach might be a bit steep. Sometimes it is helpful to come by posts such as yours, since it helps us understand why some people just don't "get" our games or "get into them" like others. And to broaden the appeal, we naturally need to work on those issues. And bringing different sports and concepts under the SI label will in the long run help us make all our games more accessible for a wider audience with different preferences.


I spent the holiday weekend with the EHM demo.

I just found the amount of detail to be overload. My issues

A. The players are rated in too many categories. Overload
B. I don't have time to play day by day - I just can't commit that amount of time to the game.
C. The scouting system is just silly to me - I don't want any part of assigning which scout goes where...
D. It's more like work and less like fun.

The SI games go back to being the 'manager' of a football team. I don't have any desire to play coach of anything. I've never called plays in FOF, I don't play out my games in OOTP or Puresim. I like to see how a player or league evolves over time, but do it in a reasonable amount of time.

To tie it back to OOTP: The idea that there are hidden ratings that effect some batters against some pitchers is just a plain stupid idea. I can't imagine that the community in general supports that - if they do then I'm WAY out of touch.

I don't need to know what Todd Linden hits in April when the temperature is below 50 degrees - I'd really much rather have the AI stop releasing the big dollar players that they just signed.

OOTP was close to being a GREAT game. It didn't need to add things like stupid European leagues that have never produced a major league player. It needed to improve the AI and make the game a challenge for the solo player. Hopefully Shaun continues to improve Puresim and maybe in a few years that will be closer to what I'm looking for.

[MizzouRah]

The funny thing about SI's game for me is, I never could really get into any incarnation of FM. The interface was goofy, the days and nights instead of simming the whole day, words I've never heard, etc.....

I bought EHM, and now I can finally understand or at least I'm learning the SI system, so to speak. It just took a sport I knew a little about and some growing pains. They (SI) really have some interesting elements in their games. Personally, the day to day interaction in the game actually makes it easier to learn the dynasty and become immersed.

I think Puresim will definitly continue to improve though.

[MrBug708]

Two things

We have OOTP6 and OOTP06? That's gonna be confusing as hell.

Can we get uniform numbers set more realistically? I hate seeing #71 or #68 all the time.

[sovereignstar]

Can we get uniform numbers set more realistically? I hate seeing #71 or #68 all the time.

I'm thinking this isn't gonna be the place for suggestions.

[Swaggs]

Two things

We have OOTP6 and OOTP06? That's gonna be confusing as hell.

Can we get uniform numbers set more realistically? I hate seeing #71 or #68 all the time.

I would settle for non-repeating numbers. I don't like having three #11's, two #34's, and two #35s on my 25-man roster. Not that it is really important, but if jersey numbers are going to be in the game, they may as well be done right.

[MizzouRah]

I would settle for non-repeating numbers. I don't like having three #11's, two #34's, and two #35s on my 25-man roster. Not that it is really important, but if jersey numbers are going to be in the game, they may as well be done right.
EHM does jersey numbers very well.

[lighthousekeeper]

To tie it back to OOTP: The idea that there are hidden ratings that effect some batters against some pitchers is just a plain stupid idea. I can't imagine that the community in general supports that - if they do then I'm WAY out of touch.

I support that. But I'm one of those crazy ones that wants to be manager as well as GM. The direction ootp seems to be going is exactly what I'm looking for.

[lynchjm24]

I support that. But I'm one of those crazy ones that wants to be manager as well as GM. The direction ootp seems to be going is exactly what I'm looking for.


You want hidden ratings that control certain hitters against certain pitchers? I don't see how that effects if you want to be the manager of the game or not - even if I was going to play out every pitch why would I want this? It certainly has no real life model to base it on and I can't even imagine how poorly the computer AI is going to handle it.

[Draft Dodger]

I would settle for non-repeating numbers. I don't like having three #11's, two #34's, and two #35s on my 25-man roster. Not that it is really important, but if jersey numbers are going to be in the game, they may as well be done right.

and the ability to edit your own jersey numbers in an online league

[McSweeny]

You want hidden ratings that control certain hitters against certain pitchers? I don't see how that effects if you want to be the manager of the game or not - even if I was going to play out every pitch why would I want this? It certainly has no real life model to base it on and I can't even imagine how poorly the computer AI is going to handle it.you don't think some guys hit fastballs better than they hit curveballs? or some guys who thrive on hardthrowers? or some guys who tear knuckleballers up?

[Crapshoot]

You want hidden ratings that control certain hitters against certain pitchers? I don't see how that effects if you want to be the manager of the game or not - even if I was going to play out every pitch why would I want this? It certainly has no real life model to base it on and I can't even imagine how poorly the computer AI is going to handle it.

Uh no - not to my knowledge, and I hope to hell OOTP isn't recessing to this. That being said, the beta team does not inspire confidence (and my god, knowing some of the people, its brutal) -some still think clutch is an "Important" factor, which is worrysome. Essentialy, I was part of the crowd that fought vehemently about the "composure etc" bit for pitchers last year - I may have to start again if this stuff starts coming into play. Let OOTp concentrate on getting a logical DIPS+ engine working first, and then worry about pitch types( which never meant a damn before) or minor interactions.

[lynchjm24]

you don't think some guys hit fastballs better than they hit curveballs? or some guys who thrive on hardthrowers? or some guys who tear knuckleballers up?


Of course there are. It isn't hidden though and you don't have to try and pull it out of small samples of data.

You also can combat it with things like pitch selection and location. Is that what OOTP is headed towards? That's a level of detail that I'm not interested in. I'm not a major league catcher, I'd rather not spend my time going over scouting reports on Cesar Izturis' ability to recognize breaking pitches.

[miked]

Uh no - not to my knowledge, and I hope to hell OOTP isn't recessing to this. That being said, the beta team does not inspire confidence (and my god, knowing some of the people, its brutal) -some still think clutch is an "Important" factor, which is worrysome. Essentialy, I was part of the crowd that fought vehemently about the "composure etc" bit for pitchers last year - I may have to start again if this stuff starts coming into play. Let OOTp concentrate on getting a logical DIPS+ engine working first, and then worry about pitch types( which never meant a damn before) or minor interactions.

Hmmm....there was a 10 page debate on here regarding the AL MVP and how "clutch" David Ortiz is. I wonder which one of those is on the beta :p

[Senator]

David Ortiz = clutch, by the way.

[McSweeny]

David Ortiz = clutch, by the way.just watched the Game 4 of the ALCS DVD again tonight

David Ortiz is more than clutch. He's like Clutch+1

[st.cronin]

David Ortiz = clutch, by the way.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

Also, Wayne Gretzky was a good hockey player.

[Senator]

Thank you Captain Obvious.

Also, Wayne Gretzky was a good hockey player.

Just want to make sure you had no doubts.

[Galaril]

Some information on media and players personalities for the next OOTP game.

OOTP 2006 (http://www.ootpbaseball2006.com/news.php?news=view&id=45)

[lighthousekeeper]

lookin good.



"drubbed 14 hits" ?

[TroyF]

Lynchjm,

I remember the first few Elias baseball books when I was a kid. They had sections in there on how a handful of great players has fared against everyone they had ever faced.

I can't remember exacts now (though I still have those books somewhere), but I loved looking at who Kirby Puckett hit the best and worst against and who Nolan Ryan couldn't get out. Some of them were just funny. You'd see how a hitter was 0-17 against some retread middle reliever, but 10-16 against Dennis Eckersley.

I'm not sure the numbers in this case would impact the management at all. Although if you had the ability to see that over the last two years your star hitter happened to be 1-22 against the opposition starter, maybe I'd go ahead and give him a rest that night.

[Buccaneer]

1. Set lineup
2. Sim month
3. Adjust lineup
4. Sim month
5. Adjust lineup
6. Sim month
7. Adjust lineup
8. Make a big trade or two
9. Sim month
10. Sim month
11. Make callups
12. Sim month
13. Do playoffs
14. Do off-season stuff
repeat

OOTP5 still does this very well. :)

[lynchjm24]

Lynchjm,

I remember the first few Elias baseball books when I was a kid. They had sections in there on how a handful of great players has fared against everyone they had ever faced.

I can't remember exacts now (though I still have those books somewhere), but I loved looking at who Kirby Puckett hit the best and worst against and who Nolan Ryan couldn't get out. Some of them were just funny. You'd see how a hitter was 0-17 against some retread middle reliever, but 10-16 against Dennis Eckersley.

I'm not sure the numbers in this case would impact the management at all. Although if you had the ability to see that over the last two years your star hitter happened to be 1-22 against the opposition starter, maybe I'd go ahead and give him a rest that night.


It's just statistical variance though. The number of at-bats aren't enough to be predictive... so why should the game pretend it is.

I think there is a chapter about this in the new BP book 'Baseball Between the Numbers'. I received it yesterday but haven't really been able to look at it yet.

[kcchief19]

lookin good.



"drubbed 14 hits" ?Those screen shots suggest somebody got a thesaurus for Christmas. I don't believe I've ever read the word "ambiguity" or "palpitate" in a sports section.

[Marc Duffy]

The text is still being edited and revised :)

[gstelmack]

Some information on media and players personalities for the next OOTP game.

OOTP 2006 (http://www.ootpbaseball2006.com/news.php?news=view&id=45)
Managers in OOTP 2006 will be in for a real treat. You will not only get messages welcoming you to your new club, but ushering you out the door.
Wait a second, being ushered out the door is a "real treat"???????

:D

[Fouts]

I wonder what the chances are of scouting a player in a foreign league and they make a big impact in your league (ala Cecil Fielder, Ichiro).

[Ramzavail]

I wonder what the chances are of scouting a player in a foreign league and they make a big impact in your league (ala Cecil Fielder, Ichiro).

Fairly good as long as you don't get a NY Mets scout.

Matsui, Yoshii, Komiyama, Kashiwada, Shinjo.

[mgadfly]

It's just statistical variance though. The number of at-bats aren't enough to be predictive... so why should the game pretend it is.

I think there is a chapter about this in the new BP book 'Baseball Between the Numbers'. I received it yesterday but haven't really been able to look at it yet.

How do we know something doesn't exist if the number of at bats aren't enough to be predictive? At best, wouldn't we only be uncertain about whether it (whatever "it" is) existed or not?

Does God exist? Too small of sample size of those who died and returned to tell us the answer. And all other data reveals that you rot and end up worm food so therefore no one should believe in God.

[lynchjm24]

How do we know something doesn't exist if the number of at bats aren't enough to be predictive? At best, wouldn't we only be uncertain about whether it (whatever "it" is) existed or not?

Does God exist? Too small of sample size of those who died and returned to tell us the answer. And all other data reveals that you rot and end up worm food so therefore no one should believe in God.


I'm not really in the mood to debate real life. Here is why it shouldn't be in the game.

Let's say Albert Pujols is 0-8 against Billy Wagner. Red flag for the AI manager. Looks at the bench - sees Scott Spiezio who can play the same position and switch hits - plus he's 7-13 against Wagner.

Do you really want the AI manager considering hitting Spiezio for Pujols?

Markus has always strugged with the AI some, and as much support he'll receive from SI for this version, you'll have to excuse me if I'm a little skeptical of their ability to program baseball strategy.

[Galaril]

Is there any mention of when this will be released summer ? 3rd Q?

[Brillig]

Probably late-April/early-May or so. The latest info was that it definitely would *not* be out by opening day, but that they should have a reasonably firm release date by the end of March.

[General Mike]

Is this game going to have a World Baseball Classic modeled in? I would love to be the USA GM :D

[DaddyTorgo]

Is this game going to have a World Baseball Classic modeled in? I would love to be the USA GM :D legit question

[PilotMan]

Yes, that would certainly be a great addition to the game.

[Desnudo]

Honestly, I didn't mean that as a criticism of the SI games, I was just unable to get into them at all. I tried, though. That's about all you can ask of a potential customer, right?

SI games are so popular because of the immersion factor. So it makes sense that if you want more of a hands off draft-and-sim type of deal, SI probably wouldn't be your cup of tea.

[dervack]

Is this game going to have a World Baseball Classic modeled in? I would love to be the USA GM :D
No.

[Young Drachma]

SI games are so popular because of the immersion factor. So it makes sense that if you want more of a hands off draft-and-sim type of deal, SI probably wouldn't be your cup of tea.

Yeah, EHM was nuts. Like, I had no idea what I was getting myself into until I was sitting here for hours doing all this tweaking for my hockey team. It was crazy.

I figure that this will be a huge upgrade for OOTP regardless, so...I'm looking forward to it. But it needs to just get here all ready.

[Buccaneer]

SI games are so popular because of the immersion factor. So it makes sense that if you want more of a hands off draft-and-sim type of deal, SI probably wouldn't be your cup of tea.

You know, that's an astute observation and one that I find very interesting. I do read how people play FM, OOTP, FBCB, BBCF, etc. and it is amazing to me at the level of detail and micromanagement they get into. I'm not talking about micromanaging rosters and such because we all do that. I'm talking about caring and analyzing what is happening on a play-by-play basis. That, I conclude, is a level of immersion that makes a game like FM so popular, as well as other games where you can call or watch your own plays.

Contrast that to us "fast-simmers". We expect the same results as if doing and watching play-by-play but without having to do the work - all because we are more interested in the "career". This probably also applies to those that are more interested in the off-season - to get through the regular season as best yet quickly as possible. Take OOTP or FBCB for example. One can play out or closely watch a game in all of its details. On the other hand, one can choose to sim a month at a time. Those are pretty radical extremes, I think. I am solely in the latter group and I am constantly amazed at the patience one exhibits when playing game-by-game or play-by-play.

I think this gets back to what Desnudo was referring to. Will text sim games become more segragated into slow-simmers and fast-simmers to where a game would be best played at one or the other? I think the football and soccer games may see this more clearly where the are designed to be played at a more detailed level (because of the designed immersion factor, the depths of the user interface and the better chance at success if you do so). But what about non-football/soccer games?

[FBPro]

I would say that baseball is more of an analyze every detail type of game, from where your players bat in the order to how are they doing at AAA, etc....especially with the level of detail that is coming w/ OOTP 2006.

[Buccaneer]

I would say that baseball is more of an analyze every detail type of game, from where your players bat in the order to how are they doing at AAA, etc....especially with the level of detail that is coming w/ OOTP 2006.

I agree and a fast-simmer can (and should) do those things. But take it down a notch or two, should a baseball text sim game be played (or coached) on a pitch-by-pitch basis?

[tanglewood]

What it boils down to is the GM/Head Coach divide in North American sports. This divide doesn't exist in European soccer, or at least only in a very few select clubs, where the convention is that the guy who decides the matchday tactics, arranges the training program and buys and sells the players is all the same guy. I get the feeling that the 'fast simmers' just want to be a GM and deal with player transactions, but that role doesn't really exist in soccer, hence the way FM is designed.

As for OOTP, I have no idea how far it will go down the FM route, but all those worrying that it will become a 'slow-simmer' game should probably wait until they get their hands on the demo. Remember, it is still Markus' game first and foremost, so I don't think that it will change all that drastically from the previous OOTP tradition.

[Buccaneer]

What it boils down to is the GM/Head Coach divide in North American sports. This divide doesn't exist in European soccer, or at least only in a very few select clubs, where the convention is that the giy who decides the matchday tactics, arranges the training programme and buys and sells the players is all the same guy. I get the feeling that the 'fast simmers' just want to be a GM and deal with player transactions, but that role doesn't really exist in soccer, hence the way FM is designed.



That is interesting.

[FBPro]

I agree and a fast-simmer can (and should) do those things. But take it down a notch or two, should a baseball text sim game be played (or coached) on a pitch-by-pitch basis?
I think some may want to play via this method, while most I would say do not. I mean I play Diamond Mind Baseball from time to time which has this option and NEVER use it.