Going PC shopping in an hour or so - HELP

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, time for another "time to buy a PC" thread, this time from someone who is really in over their head. I know enough to know that I know just enough to be dangerous to myself & those around me, so time to call on the experts.

The objective: a new p.c. for my son.
The purpose: Mostly a gaming machine, which will also get light internet use.
Shopping desintation: BestBuy
Target Price: $800 (if I can get in for/under that amount)

Right now, my 7 1/2 year old is going through a FPS gaming phase. To give you some idea of what sort of stuff he plays: He's completed several of the Star Wars titles on XBox already (gets Republican Commando for Christmas), has completed Halo2 already, has just about finished Halo. He's also an EA Sports kid, has played most of the major sports titles from the past couple of years on either XB or PS2. Hopefully that gives you some idea about what he'll play on the PC, in addition to reviving some 50 or so titles he already has ranging from educational stuff to more traditional kids titles (i.e. games based on kids movies, etc). He also loves the whole Backyard Sports series, beats the crap out of 'em but he likes to play 'em.

Now, as far as my little mind knows, what I'm looking for today is all about graphics cards, processors, RAM, and to some degree, HD capacity (to this day, he's still the only family member to completely fill a hard drive). Problem is -- I'm not a graphics guy, games or otherwise, so beyond knowing names like Nvidia & Radeon, I'm pretty much clueless.

-- I know some are going to question my shopping destination so let me explain that just a little. Through a series of events, I've got a store credit of about $1500 right now. We were planning to buy the computer before that happened but once the windfall landed in our lap, it became pretty tough not to want to take advantage of the good fortune.

-- Shopping choice #2 -- I also know there's likely to be questions about the decision to buy retail. Bottom line: time is short, there's not really a trustworthy local computer shop within 45 minutes of me out here in Hooterville (I've had kinda mixed results with that anyway), and the biggest hurdle at this point is to get the blasted computer in time for Christmas. Retail is the only realistic way to accomplish that task, so retail it is.

Q1: What brands/names/specific parts do I want or absolutely want to avoid at all costs? If it matters with regard to which manufacturer uses which components, given Best Buy as the outlet, I'm almost certainly looking at something from HP/Compaq/eMachines (they also carry Gateway, but from past experience, that will not be coming into my house).

Q2: Can what I'm looking for be done for a top-end of $800? Looking over the pricing on their website, I'm afraid I'm going to get pushed into the $1,000 - $1,200 range. Doable, but damn ... I'd rather not go there. The biggest thing is that he be able to play the most popular/common titles for his interest, not that he be able to play them at the absolute highest efficiency.
(i.e., I need to meet min. req. not blow them away)

Q3: Given his gaming resume, I'd be open to a suggestion or two for good new titles to go with his new rig. And I'm not real big on duplicating console titles he already has on the p.c.

C'mon folks, help make a kid happy for Christmas, somebody try to hook an over-his-head brutha up.

Thanks in advance.

[GreenMonster]

For $800 bucks you can get him a kick-butt PC. I haven't looked in a while, but he will be hooked up if you spend in that range..

[MizzouRah]

Hopefully you'll find someone knowledgeable who can go through the different pc's they have at Best Buy, but I'll do some looking around on their site.

I would get COD 2 (my favorite FPS right now), Half Life 2, Madden 06, Far Cry, or Quake 4 as far as PC games go.

This rig is $899 (plus I think some rebates), about the cheapest they have for gaming, and I like the Athlon 64 x2 dual core processor as well as the 1 GB in memory. The video card has shared memory which isn't the greatest, but it should still run the newest games and you can always upgrade in the future. There are also game discounts with this pc.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7439505&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat60700050018&id=1124431815424

Man you could build a really nice rig for that price though. :D

[JonInMiddleGA]

COD 2

Get wha'?

(I'm guessing that ain't a fishing game)

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Call of Duty 2

[MizzouRah]

Get wha'?

(I'm guessing that ain't a fishing game)
Call of Duty 2, one fantasic and engrossing game.

[Airhog]

Battlefield 2, Doom 3, Half-Life 2, Quake 4,

The first one is strictly online though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The first one is strictly online though.

Thanks for the heads-up, that's the one thing I don't really like him doing, playing multi online. Too many horror stories I guess, makes me too uneasy for a 7 y/o (although I'm sure there's plenty who would criticize me for letting him play FPS in the first place, we all have things that make us really uncomfortable & turning the cyber-world loose on my kid is one of them).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Call of Duty 2, one fantasic and engrossing game.

Doh, I should have gotten that one just from seeing it mentioned here. Just drew a total blank.

[Crapshoot]

Dell is the way to go Jon. Before buying anything, let me know, and I'll scrounge around to see what coupon deals are available - when it comes to Dell, no one pays the actual listed price.

[Crapshoot]

dola,
do you feel comfortable installing a video card yourself ? Becuase It makes sense to buy the rig from Dell with the base card, and buy a card from Newegg and install it yourself.

[MizzouRah]

Actually I think HP and Compaq are better than Dell right now. I mean, we are replacing 1500 Dell Pc's at work because they are catching on fire... and the laptops have system board and HD issues.

I bought a Dell a few years ago, but I think they've really gone down as far as reliability goes.

Jon, just make sure you get the extended warranty from Best Buy.

[Crapshoot]

Ugh - I guess I disagree Todd- we're pretty happy with ours at work. I wouldnt buy laptops from Dell, but desktops' don't really require much in the way of engineering skill.

Also, extended warranties are the single biggest money maker in the bank. Two years from now, if your warranty is needed, the computer is probably worth a quarter of what you paid for it in the first place.

[Crapshoot]

Last one- Best Buy jacks up their prices for desktops IMO - you're paying a premium for a product which is basically a commodity at this point. If ordering online doesnt hold any fears for you, that is the way to go.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Jon, just make sure you get the extended warranty from Best Buy.

Actually, in a weird roundabout way, that's where the $1500 store credit came from. I'm sure I'll detail that story someday but suffice to say they managed to lose my wife's old laptop when it went in for service. 100% of purchase price being refunded on a nearly 3 y/o laptop ain't a bad deal IMO.

also, for Crapshoot, re: vid card -- I'd sooner have dental work without an anastethic than even crack a computer case to get a hard-to-reach dust bunny off a fan blade, so imagine my reaction to swapping a video card ;)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Last one- Best Buy jacks up their prices for desktops IMO - you're paying a premium for a product which is basically a commodity at this point. If ordering online doesnt hold any fears for you, that is the way to go.

Normally it wouldn't, but with the Christmas clock ticking & on THE centerpiece present of Santa's goodies, no way I'd risk delivery issues at this point.

A month ago? Yeah. Now? Just can't do it, been burned by late shipments too many times.

[the_meanstrosity]

JoninMiddleGA,

I'm not sure what you'll be able to get with $800, but I'll list a few items to look for. I would probably stay away from eMachines. I believe they've been purchased by Gateway, but their desktop systems are normally garbage. eMachines has been known to make some quality laptops, but skip the desktops. Compaq would be my first choice, but HP isn't bad either. Sony is nice, but may be a bit pricier.

PROCESSOR
AMD Athlon 64

RAM
1 GB of RAM

VIDEO CARD
nVidia 6800 and ATI X800.

MONITOR
If you get a LCD monitor, make sure you do the research. Some LCD's just aren't meant for gaming and you'll get a lot of ghosting on FPS games.

My suggestions aren't the bleeding edge, but should enable you to play most new games. I know some of the newer FPS games like Call of Duty 2 and Fear are system resource hogs.

You'll probably also want a DVD Rom/Burner. As for hard drive size, you're better able to choose that one since you know what kind of use you're looking at. A 250 GB hard drive should be fairly inexpensive in a pre-packaged system.

As extra gifts, you could get your son a nice optical mouse (wired or wireless). Logitech sells the MX518 and the G5 which are both good for FPS games. These will cost about $40-$50. I prefer the MX518, but the G5 is newer.

Another gift idea is a gamepad controller. The XBox 360 controller is also made for the pc and is getting a lot of buzz right now. Of course if you plan on buying an XBox 360 in the near future then you'll want to skip this idea.

Some gaming ideas: For FPS, I would suggest Half Life 2, Far Cry, and Call of Duty 2. Fear is another good FPS game, but it "may" be too scary for a 7 year old. For sim games, Civilization 4 is out now and reportedly very good. For sports, I'd go with NCAA 2006 on Xbox or whatever console you have.

Hope these suggestions help.

[GrantDawg]

MAKE SURE TO GET A REAL VIDEO CARD!!!! Do not get a "Intel" anything video card. Your looking for nvidia or ati. If it says intergrated, RUN!

[MizzouRah]

Ugh - I guess I disagree Todd- we're pretty happy with ours at work. I wouldnt buy laptops from Dell, but desktops' don't really require much in the way of engineering skill.

Also, extended warranties are the single biggest money maker in the bank. Two years from now, if your warranty is needed, the computer is probably worth a quarter of what you paid for it in the first place.
..and I've been happy with my Dell pc, but at work they've been terrible and without them being on a lease, who knows what the company I support would have done.

It's that old addage, some are happy with X pc, some would never buy from X company, etc.. I just know Jon can't get a Dell from Best Buy so HP or Compaq would be much better than Gateway or an e machine, imo.

DEFINITLY get a pc with an ATI or NVIDIA video card, like GD said, integrated is NOT the answer. :)

On warranties, I don't get em.. but I fix pc's for a living, I know Jon doesn't so if something should go wrong in the future, it would be easier for him to bring it in to get it fixed. I also don't think they cost that much if you get it when you purchase.

[JonInMiddleGA]

..and I've been happy with my Dell pc, but at work they've been terrible and without them being on a lease, who knows what the company I support would have done.

It's that old addage, some are happy with X pc, some would never buy from X company, etc.. I just know Jon can't get a Dell from Best Buy so HP or Compaq would be much better than Gateway or an e machine, imo.

DEFINITLY get a pc with an ATI or NVIDIA video card, like GD said, integrated is NOT the answer. :)

On warranties, I don't get em.. but I fix pc's for a living, I know Jon doesn't so if something should go wrong in the future, it would be easier for him to bring it in to get it fixed. I also don't think they cost that much if you get it when you purchase.

re: extended warranties/service plans/etc. -- IMO they are very much a mixed bag, but I've had very good luck with Best Buy plans on computers. Over the course of three items, they've paid for themselves nearly 3x over.

re: computer brand -- Well, at least we're in agreement on Gateway ;) After enduring the computer-suxxors-from-Hell experience with them several years ago, there's nothing I'm less likely to buy (hell, I honestly wouldn't accept a free one from them). As for eMachines, I was very skeptical about their desktops ... until a very good salesman convinced me to buy one 18-24 months ago. That's actually the comp. I'm on right now, and to date, it's easily been the least troublesome/most satisfactory computer purchase of my life. I really think they are a hit/miss proposition & that I got one of their "good ones", but I am at least 1-for-1 with them. I'm about 50/50 with Compaq/Comcrap desktops, but have had good luck with Compaq/HP laptops.
And would probably give a solid B grade to the only Sony Vaio I've had.

[GrantDawg]

re: extended warranties/service plans/etc. -- IMO they are very much a mixed bag, but I've had very good luck with Best Buy plans on computers. Over the course of three items, they've paid for themselves nearly 3x over.

re: computer brand -- Well, at least we're in agreement on Gateway ;) After enduring the computer-suxxors-from-Hell experience with them several years ago, there's nothing I'm less likely to buy (hell, I honestly wouldn't accept a free one from them). As for eMachines, I was very skeptical about their desktops ... until a very good salesman convinced me to buy one 18-24 months ago. That's actually the comp. I'm on right now, and to date, it's easily been the least troublesome/most satisfactory computer purchase of my life. I really think they are a hit/miss proposition & that I got one of their "good ones", but I am at least 1-for-1 with them. I'm about 50/50 with Compaq/Comcrap desktops, but have had good luck with Compaq/HP laptops.
And would probably give a solid B grade to the only Sony Vaio I've had.

Well, my wife has the other type on the emachines. It had an intergrated card (which I got because she said she never wanted to game. Then she wanted Sim2 that wouldn't play on it. Grrrr...). There was no AGP slot, which forced me to buy a PCI card for it (and it is very limited in those). We've had a numb er of crashing problems with it, that was finally solved by replacing the orginal memory. I agree with you that it is all in the system you get, but emachines tend to be more proprietery than other systems available these days.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I agree with you that it is all in the system you get, but emachines tend to be more proprietery than other systems available these days.

I wonder (because I certainly don't keep up with this stuff regularly, only when I'm in the market to buy) ... When eMach first appeared on the scene, they were generally considered "good". Then their quality control went to complete crap and they became "bad". Then, about the time I bought this one, they were trying to repair their image & there was a run where they became "good" again. And now they're back toward "bad".

I wonder if they are among the most hot/cold manufacturers out there?

[Easy Mac]

I got my sister an emachines last year and it runs perfectly. My mom's HP she got in September is already screwing up. The CD drive won't work and the VGA goes in and out.

[the_meanstrosity]

Jon,

Watch out because eMachines is now owned by Gateway.

If it were me, I'd probably go with the Sony.

[dl5175]

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/. I do not know about Georgia but I think this place is in Atlanta maybe shipping would not be an issue.

[PineTar]

Going with a brick and mortar purchase at x-mas and limiting yourself to BB ensures you will paying hundreds of dollars more than what you could/should be paying for equivalent rigs. An unwillingness to crack the case on your computer also ensures whatever you bring home in that price range will have a short lifespan in terms of being able to play the most graphically demanding games in existence (FPS).

If you have a change of heart regarding an internet purchase, I highly advise reviewing the following websites...

Slick Deals Forums (http://forums.slickdeals.net/forumdisplay.php?sduid=0&f=9)
Fat Wallet Forums (http://www.fatwallet.com/c/18/)
AnandTech Forums (http://forums.anandtech.com/categories.aspx?catid=40&entercat=y)
Deal Svengali (http://dealsvengali.com/index.php)

[Terps]

Most of the computers they sell will have integrated video, but you could always have the Geek Squad there install a video card for you.

[MizzouRah]

So, what happened?

[jamesUMD]

I just bought a Toshiba Laptop from Best Buy tonight for $749 (actually $949 with $200 mail in rebate). The protection plan was like $200. I passed, but mainly because I have faith that I can fix any woes I may encounter. FPS do seem to be the one type of game that will force you to intermittenly upgrade the graphics card. That and FOF ;)!

[Flasch186]

what did you get?

[WrongWay]

My mom's HP she got in September is already screwing up. The CD drive won't work and the VGA goes in and out.
I am confused. Why aren't you returning this? Less than a year old it is still under HP warranty. And, please tell me you bought the extened warranty.


I love my big retail computers with extended warranties, because it makes my computers basically Bullet Proof for the next 3 years. You guys are always telling people to build your own system because you can use better parts, but you tell me what is better than having a Computer that is Guaranteed never to have a bad part for 3 years?

Well, another reason I love my warranties is because I can't tell the difference between a Bad motherboard, a bad Power Supply, a bad Memory chip, or even a bad operating program. If my computer starts freezing up I just take it back and let them find the problem and then fix it for free. :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

So, what happened?

Ended up with a $569 HP (after $50 mail-in rebate) + $179 for a Radeon X700 card. Plus $29 installation on the card. And yes, $200 for the 3 yr extended warranty/service plan which also covers any accidental breakage (not a bad thing when you're talking about a 7 y/o). AMD, 200GB HD, and 512MB of RAM that I'll get upgraded if it gives him any grief (and I expect it will). I'll pick the comp up Tuesday/Wednesday (whenever my wife can get Will out of the house long enough).

re: the vid card -- The X800 was $279, there was another step up that was $379, and I was already pushing the envelope on the budget as it was. The highest end card installed on any machine on the shelf was something like a Radeon 20 (I think that's the model number), even on units that went over $1k. Seemed to me that buying low & upgrading was the only way to go.

I didn't post an update last night because I was so burned out from the near comical clusterfuck that the shopping trip turned into.

50 minutes to sort out the refund on the laptop followed by a near brawl in the customer service line after they shuffled me from computer service to customer service back to computer service and finally back to the head of the customer service line (which had a roughly 1 hour wait of its own).

Seems a pair of comically portly guys took issue with the fact that I had been able to effectively raise hell about the wait & decided they want to get in my face about it. Well, you can kind of imagine about how well they went over with me ("Okay, other than being really fat & pretty ugly, what else is your fucking problem?"). The drama ended with Porky & his much mouthier late 60's dad being escorted from the store by security & me getting my butt kissed with apologies from Best Buy for at least another half hour.

All in all, just another shopping day the week before Christmas ;)

[Easy Mac]

yeah, the chains normally skimp on the video cards. My sister bought a media center PC for over $1k and it had like a Pentium 3.4 HT, 1 gb ram, 300 gb hd, and a radeon x200.

[sterlingice]

I love my big retail computers with extended warranties, because it makes my computers basically Bullet Proof for the next 3 years. You guys are always telling people to build your own system because you can use better parts, but you tell me what is better than having a Computer that is Guaranteed never to have a bad part for 3 years?

Well, another reason I love my warranties is because I can't tell the difference between a Bad motherboard, a bad Power Supply, a bad Memory chip, or even a bad operating program. If my computer starts freezing up I just take it back and let them find the problem and then fix it for free. :)Well, it's a little more complicated than that

If you have the "expertise"- you can either have a better computer or spend less money (or both) by building your own. If a part goes bad, you can diagnose it and fix it and short of the mobo, cpu, or graphics card giving out (which I've never had happen across 4 computers and 10 years *knock on wood*), it's a fairly cheap fix (<$100).

The one problem I've seen a lot of with BB, even with their super duper plan, in particular, is the downtime to fix a computer. I have a friend who was without his laptop over a month each of the two years he had it (before ultimately it got RMA'd and he got credit to buy a new one). You're at their mercy to get it fixed.

So, yeah, if you can fix or build a computer or are willing to learn, go for it- it will be cheaper and better. But if you can't, it's pointless to try. It'd be like me not getting a warantee on a car- I don't know jack about how to fix a car so I get a warantee. (I think I've made this exact post and used this exact analogy before)

SI

[WrongWay]

So, yeah, if you can fix or build a computer or are willing to learn, go for it- it will be cheaper and better. But if you can't, it's pointless to try. It'd be like me not getting a warantee on a car- I don't know jack about how to fix a car so I get a warantee. (I think I've made this exact post and used this exact analogy before)

SI
Yes, we have had this conservation before. Watching the Tec help guy on cable TV, it sounds like repairing a computer involves a lot of swithing of parts to see if they work. Is it a bad power supply, is it a bad motherboard, is it a bad memory chip. Easy to find the answer by just putting in a new Power Supply, motherboard, memory chip and seeing if that corrects the problem, but who has those extra parts laying around?

Anyway, my post was aimed at this Crapshoot. All my warranties say they will either fix or replace my computer. I have never had any problems with getting service for my Computers. I had to have my 2 year old printer fixed once and HP just ended up replacing it with a newer one.

Does anyone know what this guy is talking about?

Also, extended warranties are the single biggest money maker in the bank. Two years from now, if your warranty is needed, the computer is probably worth a quarter of what you paid for it in the first place.

[MizzouRah]

x800GT video card on Newegg - $179 with 3 day shipping. :)

[sterlingice]

Well, there is something to what Crapshoot says about the 1/4 worth, if I'm reading him right. Let's say your CPU does go bad and they replace it with the same one- it's worth 1/2 to 1/4 what it was worth when you bought it 2 years ago as a "sweet spot" (ie you bought at the pricing sweet spot) Pentium 4 1.5 Ghz can't even be had at most computer stores because they lose money or they're so cheap now. But BB can go and pick one up for $50 now when it was worth $200 of your total cost when you bought it. Or at least that's my guess.

SI

[Airhog]

when I worked for Compusa, they told us that warranties were pure cash.

How many people use the warranty? And like someone else said, by the time they do need to use the warranty, the product is cheap.

[Philliesfan980]

I think that more often than not, warranties are bad investments in general. I think that most major electronic problems are going to surface during the initial 30 day period more often than not, in which you can (or should) be able to take the product back for a full refund. And most electronics are backed by the manufacturer for 90 days - 1 year. You're essentially pre-paying for maintenance.

I bought a laptop a few years ago from BestBuy, and the salesman actually told me "You're going to want a warranty for this, they fail all the time". Boy, thats a great selling pitch. I'm buying a product that fails "all the time". I doubt HP would be in business if they sold a product that failed all the time.

I think if you go through life not buying warranties (cars/electronics/etc), you'll end up spending less in the rare occassions that you'll need to "repurchase" something than what you actually paid in warranties. But from a cash flow standpoint, that might not always work for most people.

[Draft Dodger]

Anyway, my post was aimed at this Crapshoot. All my warranties say they will either fix or replace my computer. I have never had any problems with getting service for my Computers. I had to have my 2 year old printer fixed once and HP just ended up replacing it with a newer one.

Does anyone know what this guy is talking about?

basically that warranties are a cash cow. the rate of people who purchase warranties that actually will ever use them is very small - I want to say that, for PCs, it's something under 1%, but that may not be right. it's pretty darn low, that's for sure.

[Airhog]

the only item I would but a warranty for is maybe a PC joystick. Something that I know is gonna be abused.

[Terps]

The computer might be worth less in a couple years, but usually the warranties cover repair, and then in the case it can't be fixed they give you what you paid for the machine. So if you paid $1,000 now, and in 2 years it was worth $500, they still give you the $1,000 you paid for it.

[sterlingice]

Yeah- that's one of the sweet things that the friend of mine I mentioned before got. He pretty much had a lemon and it drove him nuts for 2 years, but after they had taken it to the shop 4 times (i think BB's policy is 4 times in 3 years), they mark it as dead and you get credit for your purchase price. So, if you get a lemon and it dies in 2 years, you get a $1500 credit or whatever you paid for it so you can buy a new computer.

SI

[WrongWay]

basically that warranties are a cash cow. the rate of people who purchase warranties that actually will ever use them is very small - I want to say that, for PCs, it's something under 1%, but that may not be right. it's pretty darn low, that's for sure.
Interesting since most people here who build their computers claim just the opposite. I thought everyone here trying to convince people to build their own machine claimed HP, Compaq, and all the other retail computers used cheap hardware. If what you are saying is true, and the computers you buy at the store have less than a 1% chance of ever breaking down than I would say most people arer dead wrong about their ideas on cheap Hardware.

Less than a 1% chance your store bought computer will fail in the next 3 years. What Home computer builder out their can compete with this number?

Also, I would like to anounce that I am the unluckiest man in the world as in the past 5 years I have had to return 3 desktops, 2 laptops, and 1 printer all still under warranty. About 12 trips to my local retailer and 2 at home service repairs. (3 DVD drives, 2 motherboards, 2 memory Chips, 1 power supply, 1 hardrive, 1 broken printer, 1 bad opperating system, and a couple other things I cant remember, or had someone else do the return on.)

[MizzouRah]

Jon,

I listed Far Cry because my friend raved about it. Had my wife's family Christmas this weekend and received it from my sister-in-law.

The game runs great on my medicore system and is quite a challenge to boot. Extremely fun so far... put it on your list. :)

[Draft Dodger]

Interesting since most people here who build their computers claim just the opposite. I thought everyone here trying to convince people to build their own machine claimed HP, Compaq, and all the other retail computers used cheap hardware. If what you are saying is true, and the computers you buy at the store have less than a 1% chance of ever breaking down than I would say most people arer dead wrong about their ideas on cheap Hardware.

Less than a 1% chance your store bought computer will fail in the next 3 years. What Home computer builder out their can compete with this number?

Also, I would like to anounce that I am the unluckiest man in the world as in the past 5 years I have had to return 3 desktops, 2 laptops, and 1 printer all still under warranty. About 12 trips to my local retailer and 2 at home service repairs. (3 DVD drives, 2 motherboards, 2 memory Chips, 1 power supply, 1 hardrive, 1 broken printer, 1 bad opperating system, and a couple other things I cant remember, or had someone else do the return on.)

well, I can't speak for everyone, but I don't always say that byo is the best way to go. I think you might be misunderstanding "cheap". by that, it's not necessarily a matter of the components breaking down in a Dell, it's a matter of getting components that might be a bit better in terms of performance as well as a matter of getting the components you want, and not paying for the stuff you don't necessarily need (MS works, for example). for a lot of people, a Dell or something similar is a fine way to go, and I've said that many times here.

and yeah, you are unlucky or stupid (I'm sure it's the former). a bad OS?