NFL Week 15

[gottimd]

No thread yet?

There are about 7 people at the Saints/Panthers game.

[st.cronin]

bolts off to a nice start

[st.cronin]

dola ... wow! wacky int/fumble

[GrantDawg]

Geaux Saints!

[st.cronin]

Colts O-line is overwhelmed right now. 2 drives and they haven't come close to winning a single play.

[MikeVic]

Bahahah nice penalty there in the Steelers game. I'm a Steelers fan, but that was a bad call for the Vikes.

edit: nevermind, they got rid of the penalty lol..

[st.cronin]

WOW

I think that was the best throw I've seen all year.

[stevew]

Randel El is the dumbest motherfucker in the league.

[st.cronin]

10-0 bolts

[Antmeister]

10-0 bolts

YES!!!!! Even though I don't understand that running play on 3rd down.

[st.cronin]

I can't believe how bad Indy's O-line is playing.

[Antmeister]

This is revenge for what the Colts did to the Chargers last year when Manning set that record against us.

[miami_fan]

Well the Chargers did the same thing to the Colts last year. I think, after the injuries of the first quarter and seeing Peyton running out of the pocket, Tony Dungy would love to lock all of the starters in the locker room right now

[st.cronin]

Well the Chargers did the same thing to the Colts last year. I think, after the injuries of the first quarter and seeing Peyton running out of the pocket, Tony Dungy would love to lock all of the starters in the locker room right now

Dungy definitely wants to win this game. If he benches his starters, it's going to be because they are sucking.

[INDalltheway]

The Colts are struggling, but its good that they are actually behind in a game.. Haven't had that since week 6... We all know how fast that changed.

[miami_fan]

Dungy definitely wants to win this game. If he benches his starters, it's going to be because they are sucking.

Of course he wants to win. But he also wants to have his team healthy. I am not saying he should pull anybody, but when you see Peyton running around in the open field and diving headfirst you would want to put them on the bench too

[miami_fan]

SD is throwing away opportunity after opportunity

[st.cronin]

SD is throwing away opportunity after opportunity

They are making a lot of dumb mistakes.

[stevew]

Brad Johnson with a gift.

[Antmeister]

They are making a lot of dumb mistakes.

True, but what a great stop after the Colts made their big mistake.

[Antmeister]

What is frustrating me though is the Chargers conservative 3rd down plays. They can take this game is they stop running on these 3rd and long plays.

[st.cronin]

Shawn Merriman is going to be a HUGE star. Is he the ROY?

[INDalltheway]

Do San Diego's offensive linemen always do this much tackling?

[st.cronin]

Do San Diego's offensive linemen always do this much tackling?

wah wah wah ya big baby

[stevew]

El remembers that punts are supposed to be returned forward, instead of side to side, and makes a play. Consider me shocked.

[Desnudo]

They are going to regret not scoring a TD there.

[Antmeister]

They are going to regret not scoring a TD there.

Yeah, but I have to admit that was good defense.

[stevew]

Brad Johnson with another red zone turnover

[INDalltheway]

wah wah wah ya big baby
OK hardass

[st.cronin]

OK hardass

lol

[INDalltheway]

Tennessee is up on Seatle now.. Bad news, I am playing against Drew Bennett.

[mauchow]

Brad Johnson with another red zone turnover
Yup. That was a pretty dumb move by Tice to pass the ball against a good secondary. Might as well run a draw and get a for sure three(well not fo'sho' but still). Damn.

[G-Man]

Tennessee is up on Seatle now.. Bad news, I am playing against Drew Bennett.

After that blocked FG in the second quarter the Seahawks have been replaced by 49 look-a-likes!!

I am a Seahawk fan (living just outside of Seattle for 30 years) but this game has got me wondering if the Seahawks are really as good as their record or as bad defensively as a good experienced QB like McNair is making them look. Yeah I know about all the injuries to defense, but that is an excuse, just look at what the Giants did yesterday, with all of their injuries!

This game is now in the hands of their offense! The defense is wondering what happened after 10 quarters of no TDs! Time to wake up boys, as home field is not secured nor is a playoff first round bye!! :eek:

[st.cronin]

What is the point of the rule that a reciever who steps out of bounds can't then catch a pass? That seems quite silly to me.

[INDalltheway]

:D watch out SD!!!!!!!!

[Easy Mac]

in theory he could just run out of bounds, get mixed up in the players, and they would have no idea where is is when he comes back in.

[INDalltheway]

What is the point of the rule that a reciever who steps out of bounds can't then catch a pass? That seems quite silly to me.
Ummmm its kinda obvious.. It's out of bounds.. Then you have recievers running through the benches with DBs trying to follow them. That would be a sight! :D

[Karlifornia]

Come on Alex Smith. Let's see your first TD pass here.

[Senator]

Colts!

[INDalltheway]

Come on Alex Smith. Let's see your first TD pass here.
I will let him if he agrees to throw a pick and let Jax return it on the next drive... Can you tell I just picked up Jax Defense in my fantasy league?

[st.cronin]

Ummmm its kinda obvious.. It's out of bounds.. Then you have recievers running through the benches with DBs trying to follow them. That would be a sight! :D

I don't see a problem with that.

[gottimd]

I will let him if he agrees to throw a pick and let Jax return it on the next drive... Can you tell I just picked up Jax Defense in my fantasy league?
I have Jax in my survivor pool, which started at 5,000 entries and now down to 224. I am a big Jets fan today because out of the 224 left, 107 picked Miami.

[Karlifornia]

I hate FOX and CBS. Why can't I get the Chargers/Colts game on CBS? I can't imagine skiing pulls a higher rating than Colts/Chargers.....

[st.cronin]

If I was in charge of San Diego I think would fire the entire coaching staff right now. These stupid mistakes are just unreal.

[Eaglesfan27]

I've watched the SD/Ind game from start to finish, and am very impressed with how Indianapolis has managed to turn the momentum in the 3rd quarter. Hopefully, the Chargers can hold onto this lead that they just got..

As I type this, the Colts fumble a kickoff return giving the Chargers GREAT field position.

[Antmeister]

:D watch out SD!!!!!!!!
:D Watch out Colts!!! Actually good game.

[Fouts]

What a break. I'm watching online, hoping SD can put this one away.

[Antmeister]

damn it....spoke too soon

[Eaglesfan27]

Terrible overthrow by Brees :(

Interception in the endzone for the Colts.

[Fouts]

LOL NEVERMIND!

[Easy Mac]

guess not

[st.cronin]

SD-Ind = best game I've seen this year

It's been a bad year for the NFL ... very, very few good games.

[Young Drachma]

I wanna see Indy run the table, just so I don't have to see the '72 Dolphins every year.

[G-Man]

The Seahawk's offense took this game back from the Titans! The D held when it had to, thanks to some questionable play calling by the Titan's coaches and poor passes by McNair, though he did have a good game.

What can you say about that Hawk's offensive line? Simply the best in the NFL! They are the main reason that that the Hawk's have won 10 in a row!!!! :D

[INDalltheway]

Mark it down... Vanderjagt is going to miss a field goal. There was a game like this a few seasons ago, and I just have the feeling.

[INDalltheway]

Anyone else just waiting for a Charger to pick off that last pass?

[INDalltheway]

And that one.

[st.cronin]

I can't believe the pressure SD has been able to get on Manning. We've seen nothing like this all year.

[Fouts]

Hell yes! I love them draft choices.

[Fouts]

Need Gates here, haven't seen his name the whole second half.

[st.cronin]

HOLY SMOKE

[Eaglesfan27]

Game over. SD will win :)

[digamma]

Now we have to hear about the 1972 Dolphins again.

[Fouts]

WOW. I need a replay!

[Antmeister]

As Lee "Hacksaw" Hamilton used to say:

"TOUCHDOWN SAN DIEGO! As Turner scampers down the sidelines for a touchdown.!"

[ice4277]

Solid start for the Lions, fumble on the opening kickoff!

Yay Millen!

[st.cronin]

Solid start for the Lions, fumble on the opening kickoff!

Yay Millen!

lol

[kingfc22]

Woot! Go Texans.

January 1st will be Bush Bowl in SF.

[Antmeister]

That clock better fricken hurry up!

[twothree]

SD-Ind = best game I've seen this year

It's been a bad year for the NFL ... very, very few good games.
I have been reading the play by play for this game (late game on CBS for me = unable to watch). I can't wait to see the highlights for this game.

San Diego games have been really weird this season. When they win it seems like they do so by a wide margin (average 17.5 points, minimum of 5 points). When they lose the game's score is a lot closer (average 2.8 points, maximum of 4 points).

[Fouts]

As Lee "Hacksaw" Hamilton used to say:

"TOUCHDOWN SAN DIEGO! As Turner scampers down the sidelines for a touchdown.!"

I miss Hacksaw on 690.

[digamma]

I miss Hacksaw on 690.
How bad is Joe Grande?

[Tekneek]

Colts losing is probably a good thing. Get that out of the way and get the focus back on what is really meaningful. It was becoming a distraction.

[kingfc22]

Colts losing is probably a good thing. Get that out of the way and get the focus back on what is really meaningful. It was becoming a distraction.
They'll lose to the Pats in the playoffs. It's a lock.

[miami_fan]

Peyton is going to need that hot tub tomorrow. He has taken a beating.

[Fouts]

How bad is Joe Grande?

Haven't heard him, since I've been in the bay area for a few years. I should have said, I miss hacksaw, and I miss 690.

[Tekneek]

They'll lose to the Pats in the playoffs. It's a lock.

I knew that would happen. I was tempted to put in how this will be regarded as an indication that the 9-5 Patriots are supremely better than the 13-1 Colts.

[Antmeister]

I miss Hacksaw on 690.

To me, he was the only sportcaster for the San Diego Chargers. I would always listen to the radio while watching the game because he can make a bad game sound exciting.

[Karlifornia]

Come on, Alex Smith. 1 min left, down a point. Here's a chance to begin the legend. :)

[Fouts]

To me, he was the only sportcaster for the San Diego Chargers. I would always listen to the radio while watching the game because he can make a bad game sound exciting.

Yeah, it was like listening to the WWF on the radio.

[st.cronin]

I knew that would happen. I was tempted to put in how this will be regarded as an indication that the 9-5 Patriots are supremely better than the 13-1 Colts.

Of course they are. Who would question that?

[digamma]

Haven't heard him, since I've been in the bay area for a few years. I should have said, I miss hacksaw, and I miss 690.
Yeah, they booted Hacksaw from his afternoon drive talk show, and replaced him with Money, who used to be on KROQ, and Joe Grande, from another FM station. Money is actually very good, but Grande makes the show unlistenable.


Luckily, my wife got me XM for my birthday not too long ago.

[Craptacular]

Not watching the game, but had the ESPN.com gamecast on. Does Vanderjagt not have a chance on a 55-yarder in the dome? I saw it was 4th-and-a-mile on the 38 with just over 2 to go. Down by 2. The most accurate kicker in NFL history. Punt? Big surprise ... touchback. Has his leg weakened that much in a year or two?

[Karlifornia]

#$^%$@&%$$%

[JonInMiddleGA]

Has his leg weakened that much in a year or two?

Dec 16 Indianapolis Colts PK Mike Vanderjagt (calf, groin) practiced Friday, Dec. 16, and is expected to play in Week 15.

[Antmeister]

Well the Colts got that record against the Chargers last year and now the Chargers has ended their chance of a perfect season. Beautiful!

[Desnudo]

Of course they are. Who would question that?

Not me. Of course I may be slightly biased.

[Craptacular]

Dec 16 Indianapolis Colts PK Mike Vanderjagt (calf, groin) practiced Friday, Dec. 16, and is expected to play in Week 15.
Ahh, had no clue he was injured. Most coaches would still be to chicken-$hit to try it even with healthy kickers.

[jeff061]

I didn't see this game(yeah, Jets vrs Miami was on), but if San Diego won because they were able to pressure Manning I'd say that bodes a bit better for the Pats chances. I figured the Pats could blitz and pressure Manning all they want but he still would light up the secondary, blitz or no blitz.

The Pats have looked good, but their front seven has carried the secondary on it's shoulders.

[miami_fan]

Not watching the game, but had the ESPN.com gamecast on. Does Vanderjagt not have a chance on a 55-yarder in the dome? I saw it was 4th-and-a-mile on the 38 with just over 2 to go. Down by 2. The most accurate kicker in NFL history. Punt? Big surprise ... touchback. Has his leg weakened that much in a year or two?

I thought it was closer to 3 mins than 2. Either way it was the right call. I think you take that chance that the SD offense has been terrible for the entire second half until that point. You three and out them and you give the offense back to Peyton in a two minute offense with a field goal to win at about the 50. If he misses that field goal now and you stop them, you are looking at the same situation but from your own 20 or worse.

[Fouts]

Huge win. Now I'm thinking the Chargers have a chance to win a playoff game. Who are the AFC playoff teams? IND, DEN, CIN, NE for sure. JAX, SD, PIT, KC contend for the wildcard spots. Chargers smoked NE earlier this year, lost to DEN in the 4th quarter, and just beat the Colts. They still need to beat KC next week though.

[Desnudo]

Now we have to hear about the 1972 Dolphins again.
Again? I didn't realize that they had stopped talking about them. At least now we won't be treated to however X many weeks left of it.

[Tekneek]

Well the Colts got that record against the Chargers last year and now the Chargers has ended their chance of a perfect season. Beautiful!

I hope they didn't think having an undefeated season was so important. Dungy should have been telling them that you don't get a special trophy for being undefeated.

[cthomer5000]

I knew that would happen. I was tempted to put in how this will be regarded as an indication that the 9-5 Patriots are supremely better than the 13-1 Colts.
Naturally. And of course the Colts bitch-slapping the Patriots earlier this year will now mysteriously be one of those many meaningless games Peyton is good at winning.

[miami_fan]

Huge win. Now I'm thinking the Chargers have a chance to win a playoff game. Who are the AFC playoff teams? IND, DEN, CIN, NE for sure. JAX, SD, PIT, KC contend for the wildcard spots. Chargers smoked NE earlier this year, lost to DEN in the 4th quarter, and just beat the Colts. They still need to beat KC next week though.

I agree about the huge win. I would be checking the injury report for the status of LT though.

[Desnudo]

Huge win. Now I'm thinking the Chargers have a chance to win a playoff game. Who are the AFC playoff teams? IND, DEN, CIN, NE for sure. JAX, SD, PIT, KC contend for the wildcard spots. Chargers smoked NE earlier this year, lost to DEN in the 4th quarter, and just beat the Colts. They still need to beat KC next week though.

I think Jacksonville are mortal locks based on their schedule. While I'd personally like to see SD in the playoffs, they have the toughest road left. It's too bad they couldn't take care of business against Miami.

It looks like PIT pretty much.

[miami_fan]

That is a bad call in the DAL-WAS game.

[INDalltheway]

1-10-DET 45 (5:47) C.Palmer pass to R.Kelly to DET 38 for 7 yards (D.Bly).

[Fouts]

I think Jacksonville are mortal locks based on their schedule. While I'd personally like to see SD in the playoffs, they have the toughest road left. It's too bad they couldn't take care of business against Miami.

It looks like PIT pretty much.

One other thing - Denver didn't clinch because SD won. That means if Denver loses next week to Oakland, SD could win the division by beating KC and Denver.

Or am I reading this wrong?

[miami_fan]

I meant to ask about this during the IND-SD game. I thought you could not challege/review a penalty. Does anyone know if the 12 men on the field penalty is the only that can be reviewed?

[Craptacular]

I thought it was closer to 3 mins than 2. Either way it was the right call. I think you take that chance that the SD offense has been terrible for the entire second half until that point. You three and out them and you give the offense back to Peyton in a two minute offense with a field goal to win at about the 50. If he misses that field goal now and you stop them, you are looking at the same situation but from your own 20 or worse.
I look at it this way (assuming a healthy Vanderjagt in this case or a good kicker with a good leg in general) ... a chance to take the lead versus 25-yards of field position and a good chance you will never see the ball again. Easy choice for me. If you don't make it, the MOST IMPORTANT fact still applies. You have to stop them on one set of downs. I'd rather try the FG and worry about getting an extra 25 yards against a prevent-from-winning defense if it comes to that rather than take the chance of never seeing the ball again.

[Desnudo]

One other thing - Denver didn't clinch because SD won. That means if Denver loses next week to Oakland, SD could win the division by beating KC and Denver.

Or am I reading this wrong?

You must be right since KC obviously can't win it. Come on...Raiders? Well they usually give them a game don't they?

I would love to see Denver end up as the WC. Probably a pipe dream, but you never know.

[Buccaneer]

Go Bolts! But I hope something good comes out of it. I really wished they hadn't lost to the @%$$! Dolphins last week. If the Bolts are going to miss the playoffs, I would have then liked to have seen the Colts go undefeated. A Bolts win is tempered by the Steelers win. That was the one game I wanted to go the other way.

[st.cronin]

Santana Moss is freakin amazing.

[cthomer5000]

We've secretly replaced the Dallas Cowboys with the Houston Texans. Let's see what happens...

[Icy]

Is Dallas trying to break the record of sacks allowed?

[GrantDawg]

Dallas looks as bad as any team I've seen this season. Did they make the plane?

[miami_fan]

Now that the Colts have lost a game, does the debate between resting players and playing them end? Many folks said it had nothing to do with the record. It was more of a case of them wanting to stay sharp. Nothing has really changed that. So do they continue to play it full bore? They still have the same decision without the pressure of the record. How much of a effect will today's game have on that decision? I am not talking about them losing. I am talking about the bumps and bruises the team took during the game. I think because of the loss they will play all out in the Seahawks game just to make sure they correct the mistakes they had today. The Cardinal game will be akin to another preseason game.

[terpkristin]

I just got home.

WHAT THE HELL GOT INTO THE REDSKINS THAT THEY'RE BEATING UP ON DALLAS SO? I mean, is Dallas just playing horribly, or have the Redskins decided to play for the first time this season?

/tk

[duckman]

Fuck you, Deadskins! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Easy Mac]

Now that the Colts have lost a game, does the debate between resting players and playing them end? Many folks said it had nothing to do with the record. It was more of a case of them wanting to stay sharp. Nothing has really changed that. So do they continue to play it full bore? They still have the same decision without the pressure of the record. How much of a effect will today's game have on that decision? I am not talking about them losing. I am talking about the bumps and bruises the team took during the game. I think because of the loss they will play all out in the Seahawks game just to make sure they correct the mistakes they had today. The Cardinal game will be akin to another preseason game.
think they have to play them almost a whole game against the Seahawks. You just got beat at home, you need to get that loss out of their heads, and sitting them against a good opponent won't help them at all. Sit them most of the game against Arizona, maybe play a series or 2.

[Icy]

I just got home.

WHAT THE HELL GOT INTO THE REDSKINS THAT THEY'RE BEATING UP ON DALLAS SO? I mean, is Dallas just playing horribly, or have the Redskins decided to play for the first time this season?

/tk
The second, the defensive line is eating the dallas offensive one. At the start of the second half they sacked Bledsoe 5 times in 10 plays.

[Craptacular]

Now that the Colts have lost a game, does the debate between resting players and playing them end?
I say play them the full game next week, then at least the first half in Week 17. They already have a week off to pick their a$$e$ before their first playoff game. I don't think it would be wise to go three weeks between game action.

[Raiders Army]

Damn.

[Raiders Army]

SD-Ind = best game I've seen this year

It's been a bad year for the NFL ... very, very few good games.
Agree completely. Awesome game. It almost looked as if Peyton was going to cry at the end.

[Coffee Warlord]

Agree completely. Awesome game. It almost looked as if Peyton was going to cry at the end.

Is anyone else reallllly looking forward to this week in pictures now?

[Coffee Warlord]

-10 at Soldier Field tonight. Here come Da Bears!

[duckman]

-10 at Soldier Field tonight. Here come Da Bears!
I'll be pulling for them tonight.

[Honolulu_Blue]

And I'll be pulling for the Atlanta Falcons defense for fantasy playoff purposes.

[Coffee Warlord]

Is there some play in the Bear's special teams handbook that says "catch all punts inside the 10"? Second week in a row they've done this shit.

[Ben E Lou]

Do the Bears have a first down yet?

[Ben E Lou]

Just checked. Nope.

[Coffee Warlord]

Bears Motto: Offense is for pussies.

[Ben E Lou]

Bears Motto: Offense is for pussies.:D

[Buccaneer]

Falcons Motto: Playing indoors is for pussies.

Oh wait...

[streetballer22]

Is there some play in the Bear's special teams handbook that says "catch all punts inside the 10"? Second week in a row they've done this shit.

Keenan McCardell got the memo.

[Coffee Warlord]

Anyone know what the over/under was on this game?

[DaddyTorgo]

for fantasy purposes i'm pulling for the Bears in this game. Cuz my opponent has Vick AND the Falcons D. And I just have the Bears D.

[Craptacular]

I know it's frickin cold, but am I seeing things, or is ESPN.com correct in saying that the game is in the third quarter, and Michael Vick is the leading passer with 21 yards?

edit: now it says 14 yards :)

[Coffee Warlord]

Holy shit. They are about to break out Grossman.

[Coffee Warlord]

I know it's frickin cold, but am I seeing things, or is ESPN.com correct in saying that the game is in the third quarter, and Michael Vick is the leading passer with 21 yards?

edit: now it says 14 yards :)

23 total yard passing. Combined. Hooooooo.

[Desnudo]

Anyone know what the over/under was on this game?

1

[Ben E Lou]

Now THAT was a bad break. :(

[Coffee Warlord]

And that was also why I am still not in favor of Grossman.

[Buccaneer]

Apparently Grossman doesn't think it's too cold.

[DaddyTorgo]

man i love what this is doing to my fantasy league. damm.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

LOL @ "somebody better block him before he kills somebody"

[cthomer5000]

Now THAT was a bad break. :(
Or stupidity.

[Cringer]

Man I hate Chicago. Atlanta blows. The one time I actually don't want them to lose and they are going to lose.

Atleast I am not watching the game, just checking the score on ESPN's sight.

[st.cronin]

da Bears sure know how to hit

[Celeval]

Watching this muted, because I have to.. any question as to interception/fumble there? And if so, ground causing the fumble?

[st.cronin]

Watching this muted, because I have to.. any question as to interception/fumble there? And if so, ground causing the fumble?

I'm thinking incomplete pass = INT

[st.cronin]

and I was right

[st.cronin]

hahahahahaha @ Jim Mora

[cthomer5000]

I thought that was pretty clearly a catch and the ground causing a fumble... confused as to how it wasn't.

[BishopMVP]

It should have been called an interception initially... but if they ruled it a fumble to begin with, and if Atlanta is challenging that he is down before he fumbles, they should have won that. Mora is deservedly pissed off.

[RendeR]

I think you're all forgetting the fact that once the play is challenged, the guy in the booth has the ability to call the play PROPERLY and therefore got it right as an interception.

Mora needs his diaper changed, what a fucking baby. Grow up little mora, Grow up.

[st.cronin]

Holy smokes, that Bears defense is just doing whatever it wants.

[DeToxRox]

Mike Vick needs to basically go undefeated so he gets home field all the way through the playoffs if he ever wants to win one of these games.

[Buccaneer]

Mike Vick needs to basically go undefeated so he gets home field all the way through the playoffs if he ever wants to win one of these games.
Or play against non-winning teams all of the time. So far (if this holds up), Vick will be 1-4 against teams with winning records this season, with the only win against an enigmatic Vikings team.

[cthomer5000]

Vick (and the whole Falcons offense) have been a fucking embarassment tonight.

[DeToxRox]

Or play against non-winning teams all of the time. So far (if this holds up), Vick will be 1-4 against teams with winning records this season, with the only win against an enigmatic Vikings team.

Very good point.

I hope this Michael Vick Love Affair ends soon. He's not even a Pro Bowl worthy QB this season.

[Buccaneer]

Very good point.

I hope this Michael Vick Love Affair ends soon. He's not even a Pro Bowl worthy QB this season.
Uh-oh, now you've done it...

[DeToxRox]

Uh-oh, now you've done it...

Yeah, I know I'll have sturck a nerve, but I'd take Hasselbeck, Delhomme, Bledsoe, Brunell and Eli over him so far.

[BishopMVP]

I think you're all forgetting the fact that once the play is challenged, the guy in the booth has the ability to call the play PROPERLY and therefore got it right as an interception.Didn't know that. Good call then.

Another 4th and short... let's not give it to Duckett?

[BishopMVP]

50 yd toss-up into triple coverage. Yeesh.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah, I know I'll have sturck a nerve, but I'd take Hasselbeck, Delhomme, Bledsoe, Brunell and Eli over him so far.
Brady?? He's already surpassed his career best for yardage in a seson...

[Celeval]

NFC

[DeToxRox]

Brady?? He's already surpassed his career best for yardage in a seson...

I was just talking NFC.

If Vick were in the AFC, oh boy.

Manning, Brees, Brady, Green, Plummer, etc etc. Vicks lucky to be a top 15 QB in the NFL this year.

[st.cronin]

Brady?? He's already surpassed his career best for yardage in a seson...

I think he was only including non-superstar QBs. He also didn't mention Peyton, Palmer, or Drew Brees, and I'd take any of that trio over Sr. Mexico.

[DeToxRox]

Palmer, P. Manning, Brady, Green, Brady, Brees, Hasselback, Delhomme, Plummer, E. Manning, Bledsoe, Brunell and Roethlisberger are all guys I'd take over Vick for sure this year.

[Buccaneer]

Ok, I'll pile on.

In the Alex Smith thread, they were talking about how poorly he did (and has done) and some express patience while other talking about him being a bust as rookie. Here we have a 5th year QB did even worse and yet he's held to a different standard. Maybe it is the flashes of brilliance that keeps it going. Here's a summary:

Vick plays poorly, his team wins = he is special
Vick plays well, his team loses = he is special
Vick plays poorly, his team loses = it's not his fault

[RendeR]

Michael Vick is an amazing athlete, however he is utterly and compeltely overrated as an NFL Quarterback. Always has been, probably always will be.

[DaddyTorgo]

damm. Vick only got 3 points in ESPN's fantasy scoring. That's PATHETIC

[DeToxRox]

Ok, I'll pile on.

In the Alex Smith thread, they were talking about how poorly he did (and has done) and some express patience while other talking about him being a bust as rookie. Here we have a 5th year QB did even worse and yet he's held to a different standard. Maybe it is the flashes of brilliance that keeps it going. Here's a summary:

Vick plays poorly, his team wins = he is special
Vick plays well, his team loses = he is special
Vick plays poorly, his team loses = it's not his fault

Well said.

[TroyF]

Or play against non-winning teams all of the time. So far (if this holds up), Vick will be 1-4 against teams with winning records this season, with the only win against an enigmatic Vikings team.

You are correct, but of course are using selective facts because you despise Michael Vick.

The Seahawks, Bears, Bucs and Panthers just happen to be 4 of the top 5 scoring defenses in the NFL. Is it shocking Atlanta hasn't scored on those teams when nobody else has either? Three of those losses happened on the road. The three opponents are a combined 18-3 at home to this point. (19-3 after tonight)

And the Bucs game Vick lost at home was perhaps his best passing game of the year.

I'm not defending Vick here. In no way has he played pro bowl calibur ball for most of this year. And the Falcons have struggled, without a doubt. But Vick seems to bring out the worst in people. His supporters are blind to the things he does even remotely wrong and his haters pounce on anything they can anytime they can to show how bad he sucks.

If all you got out of tonights game was that Michael Vick sucked, you have some serious issues. You can point to two critical plays in that game:

1) The INT of Grossman where the guy fumbled the ball on the one, setting up an easy score.

2) The dropped pass that turned into an INT taking away a chance at a TD for the Falcons.

Vick did suck. Badly. But he wasn't the sole reason for failure in this game. It was a great defense in their element doing what they do best.

As for the Bears, it's good to see they finally had a brain and put in the right QB. The Falcons should have been up by two scores but kept dropping Orton INT's. The Bears do not have a chance to win a single playoff game if Orton is the QB.

[Buccaneer]

Wait a minute, I just saw that nearly all of the games are this Saturday. I don't ever remember that happening when Christmas falls on a Sunday. Why?

[st.cronin]

Palmer, P. Manning, Brady, Green, Brady, Brees, Hasselback, Delhomme, Plummer, E. Manning, Bledsoe, Brunell and Roethlisberger are all guys I'd take over Vick for sure this year.

Brad Johnson

[DeToxRox]

Brad Johnson

Touche.

[Buccaneer]

His supporters are blind to the things he does even remotely wrong and his haters pounce on anything they can anytime they can to show how bad he sucks.
No doubt. It's fun to root against a player or a team just as much rooting for. Nothing analytical about it, just part of the game. They were talking about rivalries this week and was reminded that I grew up in the midst of one of the greatest: Redskins and Cowboys (with me being an avid Skins fan from 1970-1984). Neither fans would (or could) ever say anything good about the other.

[TroyF]

Yeah, I know I'll have sturck a nerve, but I'd take Hasselbeck, Delhomme, Bledsoe, Brunell and Eli over him so far.


Hasselbach, Delhomme, Bledsoe, and McNabb/Bulger pre injury are the five I'd take over Vick.

Brunell and Eli aren't much better than Vick in pure passing numbers and are both far worse runners. I'd take Vick over either of them this year. .

Again, no debate, he belongs nowhere near the pro bowl.

[DeToxRox]

Hasselbach, Delhomme, Bledsoe, and McNabb/Bulger pre injury are the five I'd take over Vick.

Brunell and Eli aren't much better than Vick in pure passing numbers and are both far worse runners. I'd take Vick over either of them this year. .

Again, no debate, he belongs nowhere near the pro bowl.

I can live with that, but Eli has shown the flashes of brilliance more constantly this year which is why I'd have Eli over Vick.

[Buccaneer]

I can live with that, but Eli has shown the flashes of brilliance more constantly this year which is why I'd have Eli over Vick.
Esp. with big wins over Denver, Washington and KC. Surely you remember those, Troy?

So what it is? Performance or wins in judging a QB?

[Daimyo]

It should not be a surprise to anyone that Atlanta isn't that good. I believe footballoutsiders predicted a 6-10 record in the preseason and they've consistantly rated in the bottom half of the league even when they were winning.

All the NFC South teams are a bit masked right now because of the schedule... All three of the "good" teams got to play the AFC East, NFC North, and New Orleans twice. With a more normal schedule i guess Atlanta wouldn't break 500 this year.

[st.cronin]

I don't think Michael Vick is a better quarterback than David Carr.

[Daimyo]

I've waffled on Vick for a while... he was really good in 2002, but pretty average or below average every other season of his career. I just don't think he's worth the injury risk and salary right now.

[Cringer]

Or play against non-winning teams all of the time. So far (if this holds up), Vick will be 1-4 against teams with winning records this season, with the only win against an enigmatic Vikings team.

I love this stat.

[Solecismic]

Playoff Review:

AFC

1. Indianapolis: Has clinched 1-seed.

2. Denver: Has clinched playoff spot; Holds tie-breakers against every team except San Diego and Indianapolis; Winning out would clinch 2-seed.

3. Cincinnati: Has clinched division; loses tie-breakers against every team except San Diego; needs loss by Denver to get a bye.

4. New England: Has clinched division; holds tie-breaker against Cincinnati and must win out and have Cincinnati lose out to gain 3-seed.

5. Jacksonville: Clinches top WC spot with 2 wins; 1 win clinches WC; 2 losses and they need a little help from Pittsburgh or Kansas City or San Diego, all of which seems unlikely.

6. Pittsburgh: With 2 wins, clinches WC spot unless San Diego wins West; 1 win and they need help from San Diego and Kansas City.

San Diego: With 2 wins and 2 Denver losses, wins division. Otherwise, loses tie-breaker to every team but Jacksonville, so would need 1 Pittsburgh loss or 1 Jacksonville loss; 1 win and things look bleak.

Kansas City: With 2 wins, needs two San Diego losses and one Pittsburgh loss or two Jacksonville losses; Also, Kansas City is the only team that could go to the playoffs with a 9-7 record in the AFC.

NFC

1. Seattle: 1 win clinches 1-seed; 0 wins and 1 Chicago loss clinches 1-seed; Otherwise 2-seed.

2. Chicago: 1 win or 1 Minnesota loss clinches division; Holds tie-breaker edge over every team except Washington, which it leads by two games.

3. New York Giants: 1 win or 1 Washington loss clinches division; loses all tie-breakers with 2 wins; with 1 win, loses most tie-breakers, except to Carolina and Tampa Bay; very unlikely to make playoffs if Washington wins division.

4. Carolina: 2 wins clinches division, but loses all tie-breakers within division; loses all tie-breakers except possibly to New York Giants at 11-5 and definitely at 12-4.

5. Tampa Bay: 2 wins clinches top wild card spot; holds tie-breaker over Atlanta, Minnesota and likely over Eastern division teams, so still in very good shape with 1 win unless Washington wins 2, Minnesota wins 2 AND Chicago loses 2.

6. Washington: 2 wins and 2 New York Giants losses wins division; holds tie-breaker over every team but Tampa Bay; only team that can reach playoffs with 8-8 record.

Atlanta: 2 wins and 2 Carolina losses wins division; loses tie-breaker to every team but Carolina and Minnesota; 1 win and needs help from Washington and Dallas.

Dallas: Can not win division; loses tie-breaker to Washington, New York Giants, Chicago, Tampa Bay and a 9-7 Minnesota (but probably beats a 10-6 Minnesota).

Minnesota: 2 wins and 2 Chicago losses wins division; In very bad shape on tie-breakers, only beating New York Giants and a 9-7 Dallas team.

[TroyF]

Esp. with big wins over Denver, Washington and KC. Surely you remember those, Troy?

So what it is? Performance or wins in judging a QB?


Big wins over Denver (Impressive), Washington (he was simply HORRIBLE that game, is performence has ZERO to do with that victory - He was 12-31 and 6 of thier 8 scoring drives were of less than 30 yards), KC (he wasn't as bad as the Washington game, but he wasn't good either. Tiki going for 220 plus the defense making big stops won that game, not Eli)

Part of the problem with Vick that the Football Outsiders or people who compare Vick to Carr can't understand is his overall impact on the game. That great Atlanta running game? It's not nearly as effective without him being on the field. Watch game tape of them sometime. Watch how on a stretch running play where Vick rolls the other way, two or three defensive players follow him.

Do people do that with Eli or David Carr? Please. Get real.

The Falcons still have the 11 best offense in the league, despite those 4 games against top 5 defenses. They are 3rd in the league in third down efficiency and Vick is one of the better QB's in the league on third down.

Vick is NOT a pro bowl QB this year. But Vick is also not one of the worst QB's in the game like some here are trying to make him out to be either.

[scooper]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/scooper1012/hat.jpgThe apocalypse is upon us. And I couldn't be happier.

[WSUCougar]

Vick is NOT a pro bowl QB this year. But Vick is also not one of the worst QB's in the game like some here are trying to make him out to be either.
I think the thing that really drags down Vick as an overall QB package is that when he needs to throw he's ineffective. While he's a threat to run he's as dangerous as anyone in the game, but if the Falcons are behind it seems he simply can't rally them with his arm.

In that sense he reminds me of the Nebraska powerhouse teams. Sure, they could steamroll you with the running attack, but if they played a solid team and fell behind, they were much more docile.

[twothree]

Playoff Review:

Thank you.

[Radii]

looks like its time for me to root for the Falcons again. Carolina win over Dallas + Atlanta win over Tampa to take the pressure off the Panthers on New Years Day please!

[TroyF]

I think the thing that really drags down Vick as an overall QB package is that when he needs to throw he's ineffective. While he's a threat to run he's as dangerous as anyone in the game, but if the Falcons are behind it seems he simply can't rally them with his arm.

In that sense he reminds me of the Nebraska powerhouse teams. Sure, they could steamroll you with the running attack, but if they played a solid team and fell behind, they were much more docile.


No doubt about it. If the Falcons fall behind, they are dead. The Broncos are in the same boat. Same style of offenses. But I'll take it one step further. . . it's not only when they are behind, it's when the defense can dominate the running game.

It kills both the Broncos and the Falcons. All the talk about TB, Carolina or Chicago have Vick's number. . . they have the offenses number, not Vicks. Denver traditionally struggles against all three teams as well. (though they don't play them as much thank God)

The entire gameplan is predicated on play action passing. Take that away, they are average at best. It's easy for people to say Vick or that offense should adjust when that happens, but it's problematic for two reasons:

1) Vick has a ton of young WR, who need to adjust to the same thing.
2) Vick is NOT a refined passer yet. We all know this. putting him in that situation right now is going to give him problems.

Vick needs to get better as a passer. Next year is huge for him, because it's time we see a step up in that regard. The critics are 100% right that he has to pass the football better. Thing is, these are the same critics who blasted him in 2002 or 2004 when he did pass the ball with some success. They cheer so hard for his failure, they are blinded to anything he does well.

[Buccaneer]

Next year is huge for him, because it's time we see a step up in that regard
Some had said that this was to be the year he had to step up, in a QB comparisons of age/years. What does it say that he may have regressed this season?

[henry296]

Everything I have read says that is Pittsburgh and San Diego win out and Jax loses one then Jax and SD are the Wild Card teams with San Diego as the 5 and Jax as the 6. I think SD wins tiebreakers based on strength of victory over Jacksonville.

Am I missing something. Pittsburgh doesn't control its own destiny.

[stevew]

Everything I have read says that is Pittsburgh and San Diego win out and Jax loses one then Jax and SD are the Wild Card teams with San Diego as the 5 and Jax as the 6. I think SD wins tiebreakers based on strength of victory over Jacksonville.

Am I missing something. Pittsburgh doesn't control its own destiny.

Yep

[kingfc22]

So will Rodgers actually get into a game tonight?

[miami_fan]

So will Rodgers actually get into a game tonight?

Now you know how some folks when you asked that question? ;)

[Easy Mac]

Aaron Rodgers is warming up!

[miami_fan]

So how does Baltimore play this one? Should they go soft zone/prevent or do they throw the kitchen sink at him?

[miami_fan]

Umm...never mind

[SirFozzie]

*snickers*

Local news ad: "If you took a cell phone picture, or video camera, orr digital photograph of breaking news, send it to mypics@thebostonchannel..

Next second..

Local show ad: "Guys using cell phone cameras to take up skirt photos of girls, on the next Inside Edition".

[Easy Mac]

Does anyone else think Michaels and Madden will need knee replacements after all the time they've spent sucking up to Favre. This is ridiculous.

[SackAttack]

Rodgers is in the game!

[mauchow]

So whoever is playing QB in GB is a turnover machine this season. So do we chalk up the season for the Packers as bad luck more than Favre's fault? The injuries really cost them.

Oh, okay never mind, I'm kidding. I know there will be Turnovers because it's Rodgers, but still.

As a Vikings fan I still feel bad for the Packers... man...

[Craptacular]

The injuries really cost them.
That's an understatement. Still, the loss of Rivera and Wahle as free agents killed them this year. They were not a dominant running team before, but were very, very good. You had to respect the run, which opened up the passing game. This year, they couldn't establish the run even when Green was healthy, and when you add on a decimated WR and RB corp, Favre was their only hope. Six to ten years ago, that was enough in a lot of games. Not anymore.

The defense has been a lot better than most people expected. Hopefully they can keep Bates as the DC.

[Cringer]

Does anyone else think Michaels and Madden will need knee replacements after all the time they've spent sucking up to Favre. This is ridiculous.

Even though I'm a Packer fan, I am not defending the ass kissing when I say this..... Shouldn't everyone expect this by now? It has happened for a while now in just about every game they play. He is a HoF QB, end of his career. They are not going to rip him right now all that much.


ANyways, ugly game. Glad I haven't been able to watch it. I just checked the score. Maybe the world will be happy now that Rodgers got some playing time....
:rolleyes:

And way to run the ball Green Bay, you sure know how to stick to running the ball more like you say you want to.

[Craptacular]

Did I just hear ABC say "take on Brooks Bollinger and the Jets" in their promo for next week? I could have never imagined hearing that while watching Brooks at UW.

[mauchow]

Oh, snap. Who had Baltimore's Defense this week?