Total College Basketball Demo

[HerRealName]

I was just checking for BBCF info and I saw that the TCB demo was released. Here's the link - downloading now...

http://72.29.67.246/GDS/TCBDemoinstall.EXE

[hoosiergoody]

Find me a lawyer to get the divorce papers ready... my wife won't see me for months now...

Typing while the game downloads. Who said Christmas was on the 25th?

[ThunderingHERD]

Excellent!!!

[vex]

Woooooooooo!

[vex]

Jeez, only 120 MB and it's saying 2 hours to d/l.

[ThunderingHERD]

Yeh, I'm only getting 55 kbps. Get off the server a-holes.

[Flasch186]

dont take this the wrong way but is this as buggy as the BBCF one? I still havnt gone back to BBCF until they fix the PBP and stuff. why would I when WWSM is so polished (except I cant get the f'n patch right now cuz im on digi-download!!)? Anyways, Im jonesin' to play BBCF but some of the PBP and things that happen are too wacky, right now....

so I ask again? What does everyone think of this TCB?

[HerRealName]

I've installed and started it up.

The game starts off with coach set up with several levels of head coach skill. When you go to choose your school, you're given a list of interested schools. I'm guessing this list of interested teams changes with the level of head coach skill chosen previously but I haven't checked to be certain yet.

After the initial set up you start off with the chosen team in the off season so you can hire/fire staff, choose recruiting services and start recruiting before the season even starts. I like this initial game set up a lot rather than the wasted first season in BBCF. I screwed up and used all my budget too fast and didn't leave enough for recruiting so I'm starting over. In addition to the scouting service, you can also choose to attend summer camps to watch recruits you are targetting. That's a nice touch that I haven't been able to utilize yet.

The interface is intuitive and looks great. This is nearing must-buy status and I haven't played a game yet.

[HerRealName]

dont take this the wrong way but is this as buggy as the BBCF one? I still havnt gone back to BBCF until they fix the PBP and stuff. why would I when WWSM is so polished (except I cant get the f'n patch right now cuz im on digi-download!!)? Anyways, Im jonesin' to play BBCF but some of the PBP and things that happen are too wacky, right now....

so I ask again? What does everyone think of this TCB?

I haven't progressed enough to know for certain but I expect the PBP to be pretty solid right from the start. Gary has the advantage of using TPB as a base for this game so that is a huge built-in advantage over Arlie.

[SlyBelle1]

Great stuff so far. Simmed one season and all I can say is I'm ready to lay down my money. A great atmosphere and seems like pretty accurate stats with nothing really that odd yet.

I liked the college football game, but never really was able to get into it that much while playing the demo. For some reason, this seems much more interesting too me (nothing against the football game, just my pereference).

Hopefully can buy soon...

[vex]

Multiplayer, right?

[SlyBelle1]

Multiplayer, right?

Has options for it on the create league screen. No idea how it works, I mainly play solo.

[jbmagic]

I haven't progressed enough to know for certain but I expect the PBP to be pretty solid right from the start. Gary has the advantage of using TPB as a base for this game so that is a huge built-in advantage over Arlie.


but how is the play by play log? is it in detail to read after? if you dont watch or coach your game but just sim.


Is the play-by-play recorded for every game for review even if just simulated?

[Gary Gorski]

The game starts off with coach set up with several levels of head coach skill. When you go to choose your school, you're given a list of interested schools. I'm guessing this list of interested teams changes with the level of head coach skill chosen previously but I haven't checked to be certain yet.

Yes that is correct. If you want to start at the elite of the elite you have to go into custom mode and set all your ratings to 90-100.

After the initial set up you start off with the chosen team in the off season so you can hire/fire staff, choose recruiting services and start recruiting before the season even starts. I like this initial game set up a lot rather than the wasted first season in BBCF. I screwed up and used all my budget too fast and didn't leave enough for recruiting so I'm starting over. In addition to the scouting service, you can also choose to attend summer camps to watch recruits you are targetting. That's a nice touch that I haven't been able to utilize yet.

One of the guys has set up a quick recruiting guide at the GDS forums. Its a system unlike ones used in other games and my team has told me they love how it works after they figured out that they couldn't just do the same things they did in other college bball games.

[Gary Gorski]

Multiplayer, right?

MP will certainly be a feature and work similar to how it did in TPB but you cannot create or access a MP league with the demo

[Gary Gorski]

but how is the play by play log? is it in detail to read after? if you dont watch or coach your game but just sim.


Is the play-by-play recorded for every game for review even if just simulated?

No, at this time PBP logs are not kept. If its something that is really wanted they could be added in as an option either before release or shortly thereafter depending on how testing finishes up.

[jbmagic]

No, at this time PBP logs are not kept. If its something that is really wanted they could be added in as an option either before release or shortly thereafter depending on how testing finishes up.


thanks Gary

i think PBP log is important to have for people that like to sim only for solo and online leagues.


it will be nice to read the play by play logs and see how the game play out.

[DaddyTorgo]

thanks Gary

i think PBP log is important to have for people that like to sim only for solo and online leagues.


it will be nice to read the play by play logs and see how the game play out.
i disagree. if i'm playing solo and simming all the games i will NEVER check a PBP log. If i want to see what's going on i'll watch a game. if i don't watch the game then I'm fine with the game assuming that I don't care. in my mind if you're simming games in solo play then you're just trying to quickly get through a season and the game shouldn't keep PBP logs for you. for MP i can understand certainly.


but don't kill yourself on it Gary.

And good to see the demo out, can't wait to DL it and give it a go (12% done)

[ScottVib]

FWIW the recruiting guide is right here:

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9747

[Gary Gorski]

Thanks Scott - I suggest you guys check it out while you wait for the download to complete :)

[HerRealName]

I liked what I saw out of recruiting so I played an exhibition game. My money is yours for the taking, Gary.

[Tasan]

I really like having the logs available BECAUSE I sim and don't play out the games. I love looking at the log of a close win or loss in FBCB to see who took the shot and if OT was involved I love to see how that broke down as well. Please have this as an option, so if we want it we can have it, and if not then just turn it off.

[DaddyTorgo]

so does watching multiple game tapes for the same player give you more notes and a better idea of how good they're going to be?? i sure hope so!

[ThunderingHERD]

First impressions:

You really need to lead the player through the process more. It literally took me 10 minutes to figure out that I needed to click the little arrow thing to move the game out of the first week. Also, I didn't realize that the budget it shows you for your recruit scouting reports is your entire recruiting budget, so I spent far too much.

I loaded the save it does right after league creation to go back and fix that. Forgetting that I was at an earlier stage, I hit the recruiting button and got a window informing me that recruiting is not available after the 26th--a window that apparently has no button allowing it to be closed. Had to close the game and restart.

[dubb93]

How the hell is going to say a player who likes prestige is more likely to go to Michigan State than Indiana b/c they have a more prestigous program?

Most NCAA Championship Titles

* 11 - UCLA
* 7 - Kentucky
* 5 - Indiana
* 4 - North Carolina
* 3 - Duke

Most Final Four Appearances

* 16 - North Carolina
* 15 - UCLA
* 13 - Duke
* 13 - Kentucky
* 12 - Kansas
* 9 - Ohio St
* 8 - Indiana

Most Final Four Wins

* 24 - UCLA
* 17 - Kentucky
* 13 - Duke
* 13 - North Carolina
* 12 - Indiana

Most Final Four Games

* 28 - UCLA
* 26 - North Carolina
* 23 - Kentucky
* 24 - Duke
* 23 - Kansas
* 15 - Ohio St
* 15 - Indiana

Something tells me that if a player was to narrow the choice down between Indiana and Michigan State prestige wouldn't be the reason MSU gets the kid over Indiana. And b/c of this, I won't even download this game to give it a chance.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm going to assume you're kidding dubb. because the guy who wrote the recruiting tips is just a beta tester anyways.

[vex]

How the hell is going to say a player who likes prestige is more likely to go to Michigan State than Indiana b/c they have a more prestigous program?

Most NCAA Championship Titles

* 11 - UCLA
* 7 - Kentucky
* 5 - Indiana
* 4 - North Carolina
* 3 - Duke

Most Final Four Appearances

* 16 - North Carolina
* 15 - UCLA
* 13 - Duke
* 13 - Kentucky
* 12 - Kansas
* 9 - Ohio St
* 8 - Indiana

Most Final Four Wins

* 24 - UCLA
* 17 - Kentucky
* 13 - Duke
* 13 - North Carolina
* 12 - Indiana

Most Final Four Games

* 28 - UCLA
* 26 - North Carolina
* 23 - Kentucky
* 24 - Duke
* 23 - Kansas
* 15 - Ohio St
* 15 - Indiana

Something tells me that if a player was to narrow the choice down between Indiana and Michigan State prestige wouldn't be the reason MSU gets the kid over Indiana. And b/c of this, I won't even download this game to give it a chance.
Prestige also means recent history.

[dubb93]

Seriously, that is like saying a player from Georgia is more likely to go to Florida than Georgia b/c Florida has a more prestigous program(if he was interested in prestige). It's a stupid statement, and I wouldn't play a football that had Florida starting with a more prestigous program than Georgia.

[vex]

Seriously, that is like saying a player from Georgia is more likely to go to Florida than Georgia b/c Florida has a more prestigous program(if he was interested in prestige). It's a stupid statement, and I wouldn't play a football that had Florida starting with a more prestigous program than Georgia.
Florida won a title in '96, Georgia not since '80.

So your point?

[Jesse_Ewiak]

I'm betting because in recent years, Mich. State has been better than Indiana. (College B-Ball Experts help me out here) For example, using your list, why would a recruit choose Duke over UCLA? Oh right, because Duke has been better the last three-four years by far.

[dubb93]

Florida won a title in '96, Georgia not since '80.

So your point?

That there is no prestige difference between the 2 schools, ala Michigan State and Indiana. There is no difference.

[vex]

That there is no prestige difference between the 2 schools, ala Michigan State and Indiana. There is no difference.You're the one that used it as an example.

EDIT: I would say there is a difference, and as someone else said, you are basing this on past history, not recent results. Most players don't truely know about a schools tradition until their official visit IRL.

[ThunderingHERD]

Huh? WTF are you going on about? Michigan State is much more prestigious to any kid coming up today. They probably can't remember a time when Indiana was elite. Hell, I barely can.

[Jesse_Ewiak]

You do realize there's a distinct chance the guy who wrote up te recruiting FAQ was choosing two teams at random, right?

[Galaril]

Outlaw77 has his file up on his site for real conference names and teams and is working on the courts which look great.

http://www.totalsportssimulations.com/index.php?ind=downloads&op=section_view&idev=3

[dubb93]

You're the one that used it as an example.

Well, you mistook my example. What was meant by it, is that Michigan State isn't an elite prestigous basketball program. Indiana has fallen in recent years, but in my mind they are around where Michigan State is.

Michigan State is no Duke or North Carolina, and Indiana is no Vandy or UTEP in terms of prestige. They are both inbetween those levels.

[ThunderingHERD]

FWIW, the default prestige has Indiana at a generous 85 and Michigan State at 94.

[Zippo]

First impressions:

You really need to lead the player through the process more. It literally took me 10 minutes to figure out that I needed to click the little arrow thing to move the game out of the first week. Also, I didn't realize that the budget it shows you for your recruit scouting reports is your entire recruiting budget, so I spent far too much.

I loaded the save it does right after league creation to go back and fix that. Forgetting that I was at an earlier stage, I hit the recruiting button and got a window informing me that recruiting is not available after the 26th--a window that apparently has no button allowing it to be closed. Had to close the game and restart.

The arrow direction is in the email I believe and why did you have to close the game to restart? Why didn't you just click any other buttons to move to the other screens? I don't think the recruiting screen being disabled locks up the game.

[dubb93]

FWIW, the default prestige has Indiana at a generous 85 and Michigan State at 94.

BAH, I'm just biased. Who knows, I'll probably end up giving it a try sometime this week. :D

[DaddyTorgo]

okay...so i've got a "thing"

i really do like the "customize your coach and get job offers based on how you set him up" thing.

but i'm wondering if there isn't a way to add an option that will like...allow the user to apply for a job at any of the team. because otherwise i think there'll be a bunch of complaints from people who just want to play with one team and don't want to poke around and create several coaches till they can get a job at that school...

[ThunderingHERD]

Why didn't you just click any other buttons to move to the other screens? I don't think the recruiting screen being disabled locks up the game.

Oh. Duh. It looked like a popup window that had taken focus. I kept trying to click it off, never even thought of hitting something else.

[ThunderingHERD]

okay...so i've got a "thing"

i really do like the "customize your coach and get job offers based on how you set him up" thing.

but i'm wondering if there isn't a way to add an option that will like...allow the user to apply for a job at any of the team. because otherwise i think there'll be a bunch of complaints from people who just want to play with one team and don't want to poke around and create several coaches till they can get a job at that school...

I think the splash screen when you clsoe the game mentions that you can take control of any team in the full version.

[MrBug708]

I think MSU is considered elite strictly because of Tom Izzo.

[timmynausea]

I was curious about the Michigan State vs. Indiana thing so I looked up some tournament results. Here they are since 2000:

Michigan State
2005 - Final Four
2004 - 1st round loss
2003 - Elite 8
2002 - 1st round loss
2001 - Final Four
2000 - NCAA Champs

Indiana
2005 - Did not make tournament
2004 - Did not make tournament
2003 - 2nd round loss
2002 - Lost in final
2001 - 1st round loss
2000 - 1st round loss

[DaddyTorgo]

I think the splash screen when you clsoe the game mentions that you can take control of any team in the full version.
oh.

well i didn't bother to look at that...i was too busy firing up another demo.

[ThunderingHERD]

Haven't actually got to the season yet, but I notice that there's not a single player in the ACC with a GPA under 2.8. The vast majority are 3.2+.

[Groundhog]

Wow, good news! Downloading this sucker right now... If it's even in the same ball park as FBCB this will be a must purchase.

[ThunderingHERD]

Anyone notice the coaching legacy thing? Look cool, hadn't heard about it before.

[Zippo]

okay...so i've got a "thing"

i really do like the "customize your coach and get job offers based on how you set him up" thing.

but i'm wondering if there isn't a way to add an option that will like...allow the user to apply for a job at any of the team. because otherwise i think there'll be a bunch of complaints from people who just want to play with one team and don't want to poke around and create several coaches till they can get a job at that school...
If you create the coach with the highest ratings model, I think all the schools will become available.

[DaddyTorgo]

If you create the coach with the highest ratings model, I think all the schools will become available.
nope. i tried that. with custom and custom for the attributes and "average" for everything else, and there were certainly schools missing (Duke and BC for two).

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

with "very low" for ambition and "laid back" and "high emphasis on academics" it looks like i got a bunch more of the top teams (UNC...Duke...)

[ThunderingHERD]

Craig said that prestige is his top concern about any school. (07/16/05)

Ranked 12th in the nation from Oakland Park, Florida, and his top schools are:
1. Northwestern
2. Kent State
3. Providence
4. Wisconsin
5. Miami (OH)
6. Massachusetts
7. Kansas State
8. Iowa
9. Missouri
10. Texas A&M

[ThunderingHERD]

Just got into August:

Congratulations to you and your school, Coach. Jacobs Goree has been nominated for the prestigious Norton Award which is given out to the player who exemplifies hard work on the basketball court, in the classroom and in their community. Good luck to your player this season, coach.

I don't know anything about these awards, but the guy's a freshman.

[Zippo]

Just got into August:



I don't know anything about these awards, but the guy's a freshman.
Nice! I think the trophy case on the team info screen has the description of each awards.

[ThunderingHERD]

Ranked 12th in the nation from Oakland Park, Florida, and his top schools are:
1. Northwestern
2. Kent State
3. Providence
4. Wisconsin
5. Miami (OH)
6. Massachusetts
7. Kansas State
8. Iowa
9. Missouri
10. Texas A&M

Ok, this seems to shake out just fine by late August. All his top teams now are very prestigious.

[ThunderingHERD]

I can't seem to get the computer to coach my team's games when I watch them. I unchecked Human Control before the game, but it stills expects me to make substitutions.

[ThunderingHERD]

Gave up on watching the game and simmed it. Got a run time error 91. :mad:

[Icy]

Wow awesome christmas present. Now i just need more time to play BBCF anf TCB, my bussines and marriage is going to suffer a lot.

Gary, i also think the pbp must be there, as option for the ones who don't want it, but at least possible to read for the ones who want. It's specially usefull for online leagues, i like to read it for FBCB to know exactly what hapened in the game as the stats are not enought to figure if the last shot was in the last minute etc etc. Please add it as option if it's not a big problem for you.

[Emiliano]

Coool!

[ThunderingHERD]

Just had a guy take 30 shots in a game--28 of them three pointers.

[Groundhog]

I fired a coach and hired another. Then, with all my coach slots full, I selected the "View Coaches" button, and get:

Run-Time error '380': Invalid property value

[Gary Gorski]

Well, you mistook my example. What was meant by it, is that Michigan State isn't an elite prestigous basketball program. Indiana has fallen in recent years, but in my mind they are around where Michigan State is.

Michigan State is no Duke or North Carolina, and Indiana is no Vandy or UTEP in terms of prestige. They are both inbetween those levels.

Just a quick note on the prestige in the game. Prestige is made up of two numbers - one for current and one for historical with a heavy emphasis on historical. Indiana's historical prestige is higher than Michigan State in the initial file and in fact higher than anyone other than Duke and North Carolina. However like someone pointed out Indiana hasn't done much lately and today's 18 year olds are far more likely to view Michigan State as the better of the two programs which is where the current prestige comes in.

As you play each season your historical prestige is slightly affected and your current prestige is greatly affected so if you were to say win the national championship with Indiana you would likely become the highest rated prestige team in the nation but if you were to go 6-20 with Indiana you wouldn't fall too far unless you strung together like 10 years of 6-20s because you have so much historical prestige built up with the school.

[Gary Gorski]

nope. i tried that. with custom and custom for the attributes and "average" for everything else, and there were certainly schools missing (Duke and BC for two).

Some schools who are highly rated for academics you will only be able to coach at if you have a better than average emphasis on academics (and this holds true later in the game as well).

[JeeberD]

Indiana is no...UTEP in terms of prestige.

You're right...the Hoosiers haven't made the Big Dance the past two years, unlike the Mighty Miners.

[Gary Gorski]

Ranked 12th in the nation from Oakland Park, Florida, and his top schools are:
1. Northwestern
2. Kent State
3. Providence
4. Wisconsin
5. Miami (OH)
6. Massachusetts
7. Kansas State
8. Iowa
9. Missouri
10. Texas A&M

Without knowing what else the recruit had to say initially this *could* be the work of the recruit's parents. Each recruit has a parental influence which spans from never hearing from the parents once to hearing from the parents nearly every time you call. Depending on how involved the parents are it could cause for some conflict and an unusual school choice or two. For example the recruit here may have wanted to play for an elite school but his parents only care about him getting as much playing time as possible to try and be a pro prospect and these were the schools that had an immediate opening at the kid's position yet were still name schools.

And like you said, this list will change over time based on who is recruiting him and how the internal power struggle between recruit and parent shakes out. Also there is not a recruit/parent conflict for the majority of players - just a handful out of the bunch to keep it interesting and realistic.

[Gary Gorski]

Just got into August:



I don't know anything about these awards, but the guy's a freshman.

The Norton Award works the same as the Wooden Award - prior to the season the assumed to be top 50 players are nominated and then as the season goes along the list is cut down until one is voted on at the end.

[Gary Gorski]

I fired a coach and hired another. Then, with all my coach slots full, I selected the "View Coaches" button, and get:

Run-Time error '380': Invalid property value

Thanks Groundhog. I've been able to fix the error. In the meantime if you exit the staff screen after you have refilled your staff and come back you should be able to click the view coaches button ok. It will only crash if you fire, hire and then try to view the coaches again right after.

[MizzouRah]

No Gary, NO!! :)

For anyone who has played the demo.. how is the 2d view look when watching a game?

I'm waiting a bit on this one as I don't have the time right now. :P

[Ben E Lou]

I'm waiting a bit on this one as I don't have the time right now. :PDitto. This is a first for me. Between Civ4, BBCF and FOF2K4, I just don't have time to add a new game to the mix right now. Assuming reports are good, I'll probably buy it upon release, but I'm not sure when I'll get to give it a serious run-through.

[Bee]

Ditto. This is a first for me. Between Civ4, BBCF and FOF2K4, I just don't have time to add a new game to the mix right now. Assuming reports are good, I'll probably buy it upon release, but I'm not sure when I'll get to give it a serious run-through.

Same with me. I had about 15 games on my wishlists and got all but one (no love for Dominions II for some reason). Since I'm not a big college basketball fan anyway, I'm guessing this game will end up on the shelf but I'll probably still buy it within a few weeks of release assuming early reviews are good.

[ScottVib]

Ok, this seems to shake out just fine by late August. All his top teams now are very prestigious.

The top teams may not have shown him much interest prior to that.

[ScottVib]

I can't seem to get the computer to coach my team's games when I watch them. I unchecked Human Control before the game, but it stills expects me to make substitutions.

Under the options button in game there is an option for Computer to make the subs. It'll make the subs based on your sub matrix.

[ScottVib]

No Gary, NO!! :)

For anyone who has played the demo.. how is the 2d view look when watching a game?

I'm waiting a bit on this one as I don't have the time right now. :P


Much more fluid then TPB, I really enjoy the in game presentation, it really sucks you in (to the point of screaming at the screen SHOOT!).

[MizzouRah]

This game is terrible, don't buy it MizzouRah, don't buy it!! If you do, bad luck will be bestoed upon you!
Noooooooooo!! Don't say that!!

Ok, fixed it for ya. ;)

[ScottVib]

I must buy this game and give Gary my money!


Fixed it for you! ;) :D :p

[Icy]

After an hour playing it i'm really excited about the final release. It's a must buy for me (it was before playing it anyway, but now it's even more). Again too bad we need to sleep, eat etc, what a waste of playing time.

[Sweed]

In the same boat with others here, not much time to add another game. I'm currently playing ehm, trying to learn wsm, about a half a season into tpb, and ootpbm is just around the corner :)

Having said that tcb just screams quality at you from the first screen you see.

If the game plays half as good as the opening screen looks, and using TPB as an example of what Gary can do, this game will rock.

With regard to the 2d view..
While not as good as fm2006 it is better that ehm and leaps and bounds ahead of tpb. I have played one exibition game just to see how the 2d looked. My first thought is that I will very rarely even look at the text portion of the screen. Why should I when I can see the game being played in front of me?

So MizzouRah, if you were hoping that the 2d would give you an excuse not to buy the game it's not going to work ;)

[hoosiergoody]

dont take this the wrong way but is this as buggy as the BBCF one? I still havnt gone back to BBCF until they fix the PBP and stuff. why would I when WWSM is so polished (except I cant get the f'n patch right now cuz im on digi-download!!)? Anyways, Im jonesin' to play BBCF but some of the PBP and things that happen are too wacky, right now....

so I ask again? What does everyone think of this TCB?

Hardly any bugs. Have seen some good suggestions and some great support on this so far. Gary had the privilege of already having the pro game released to be able to work off of to help squash initial issues.

Give the demo a try for yourself. Not everyone's opinions are the same anyways- some will always grumble just to grumble, and others will rave on positively.

I for one, am hooked already, and am waiting to spend my $$ for this one.

[SlyBelle1]

Count me in. I'm waiting for the final release and will buy immediately. I can't believe the quality that appears to have went into this game. No bugs for me yet. I'm sure something will creep up and I have made a number of "enhancement" suggestions, but nothing should prevent us from getting our hands on this soon:)

Very polished and good work. I usually wait for a patch or two before buying games like this. This one I can say I will buy right out of the gate.

[MizzouRah]

In the same boat with others here, not much time to add another game. I'm currently playing ehm, trying to learn wsm, about a half a season into tpb, and ootpbm is just around the corner :)

Having said that tcb just screams quality at you from the first screen you see.

If the game plays half as good as the opening screen looks, and using TPB as an example of what Gary can do, this game will rock.

With regard to the 2d view..
While not as good as fm2006 it is better that ehm and leaps and bounds ahead of tpb. I have played one exibition game just to see how the 2d looked. My first thought is that I will very rarely even look at the text portion of the screen. Why should I when I can see the game being played in front of me?

So MizzouRah, if you were hoping that the 2d would give you an excuse not to buy the game it's not going to work ;)
Considering Gary's previous work (TPB), there's no doubt I'll buy it.. it's just a matter of when.

Thanks for the 2d information as well, talk about immersion. :)

[vex]

FOFC league?

[Radii]

FOFC league?

It will be interesting to see how TCB ends up playing out in multiplayer, and how its release effects the interest of the 30 or so active owners we have in our FBCB league, but there would need to be quite a bit of editing capabilities to consider a jump since we've already built up some history with certain teams rising up a bit, etc. I have no idea where that might go.

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm in the same boat as others. Not enough time to play this now, but I'm fairly sure I'll buy this at some point.

[Emiliano]

Must-buy for me too. I haven't played around with the demo a lot, but it looks great. And, if I'm not wrong, we'll be able to import players in TPB, a thing that I LOVE to do.

Oh BTW, if we do the "FOFC TCB", I'm in.

[ThunderingHERD]

Ok, last night I was playing a game with Duke. Had a verbal from the #1 overall and #4 overall guys when the game crashed while trying to sim. I restarted from the autosave point at the beginning of the offseason and quickly made it through to the season, only bothering to recruit those two guys every week. I signed the #4 alright, but for some reason this time around I wasn't even in the #1 guy's top 10. The only thing I did differently was to offer him a scholarship on the very first week. What would cause this? I know the guys parents had said they didn't think we were a good fit--is this a case of "the internal power struggle between recruit and parent" shaking out differently?

[jbmagic]

Gary, i also think the pbp must be there, as option for the ones who don't want it, but at least possible to read for the ones who want. It's specially usefull for online leagues, i like to read it for FBCB to know exactly what hapened in the game as the stats are not enought to figure if the last shot was in the last minute etc etc. Please add it as option if it's not a big problem for you.



yep this is very important especially for online leagues.

please make a detail pbp log an option for solo and online play.

[MJ4H]

Dear God this game is a frikin wet dream for me.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Minor something which I don't recall seeing mentioned in this thread yet.

Played my first game as Kennesaw State, decided I'd take a glance at the Almanac screen (or History?, the one where the single game/season/career records are shown).

Sure enough, there's my big man with his 21 point game listed as the single game points leader in conference history ... except that he's listed as playing for Boston (which isn't in the conference). Right name, right point total, attributed to the wrong school.

[Gary Gorski]

Minor something which I don't recall seeing mentioned in this thread yet.

Played my first game as Kennesaw State, decided I'd take a glance at the Almanac screen (or History?, the one where the single game/season/career records are shown).

Sure enough, there's my big man with his 21 point game listed as the single game points leader in conference history ... except that he's listed as playing for Boston (which isn't in the conference). Right name, right point total, attributed to the wrong school.

Just out of curiosity so I can fix it was the 21 point game against Boston or is Boston just there by some random act?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just out of curiosity so I can fix it was the 21 point game against Boston or is Boston just there by some random act?

Totally random, we were blown out by The Citadel.

[Groundhog]

Steals look to be too high. I just completed a season, and the national leader in steals is nabbing himself a handy 7.4 a game, including a season high of 16. In real life the current leader, excluding those that have only played a few games, is grabbing 3.9 through 9 games.

[SlyBelle1]

I'm in the same boat as others. Not enough time to play this now, but I'm fairly sure I'll buy this at some point.

I guess I'm in the opposite boat. I have plenty of spare vacation time this week for this game since there really are no others I'm playing right now. Once I go back to work next week, will also be difficult for me to keep up with this one.

I'm really hoping this is released this week so I can get some time in with it. Otherwise, may have to wait awhile. From my standpoint, the game seems very polished. Most of the issues mentioned on the GDS board appear to be more suggestions than actual problems with the gameplay (including my own). Therefore, those could always potentially be addressed in a future patch:) Let the fun begin!!!

[Gary Gorski]

Its not going to be released this week. I want to clean up a few of the issues mentioned, maybe add in a few of the suggestions and we're continuing to test to make sure the long term stuff is as good and bug free as the single season stuff. I've heard from many people so far that they are impressed the demo is as crash and bug free as it is so there's no reason I shouldn't take the time to make sure the release follows suit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Since Gary made a recent appearance in the thread ... just FYI, I go back to the almanac screen several reloads later (not problem related, just playing a game, stopping, playing another game later, stopping, etc.) ... and there's my guy still listed for Boston, as is every other player from Kennesaw who makes any of the lists. BUT when I check the conference stats instead of the records, they are all credited properly to Kennesaw.

Don't know if that matters or helps track down the glitch, but figured I'd mention it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Incidentally, while I'm in the thread ... how the heck do I get back to my emails between days? I can't find a button to click & if I've already read them then clicking the little wheel thingy in the upper left (where it says something about "New Messages" when they arrive) does nothing. I feel like a goof but I'm having a heck of a time navigating this thing.

[Zippo]

Incidentally, while I'm in the thread ... how the heck do I get back to my emails between days? I can't find a button to click & if I've already read them then clicking the little wheel thingy in the upper left (where it says something about "New Messages" when they arrive) does nothing. I feel like a goof but I'm having a heck of a time navigating this thing.
I think what you are looking for is the "house" icon beside your name on the top bar to get back to your "home" (coach's office).

[SlyBelle1]

Its not going to be released this week. I want to clean up a few of the issues mentioned, maybe add in a few of the suggestions and we're continuing to test to make sure the long term stuff is as good and bug free as the single season stuff. I've heard from many people so far that they are impressed the demo is as crash and bug free as it is so there's no reason I shouldn't take the time to make sure the release follows suit.

No problem. I'm sure you'll release when you think its ready.

[ThunderingHERD]

Has anyone else noticed a lack of substantial upsets?

[Gary Gorski]

What kind of upsets are you talking about? Are you talking about upsets during the season or during the tournament and what do you consider to be a substantial upset?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Has anyone else noticed a lack of substantial upsets?

I dunno, Georgia Southern beating Duke in week 3 seemed pretty substantial ;)

[ThunderingHERD]

Has anyone else noticed a lack of substantial upsets?

During the season. I watch the top 25 when simming--it seemed like the top 25 teams were always beating the unranked teams by 30+. Playing as Duke I never had an unranked team come within 20. I didn't look into it a whole lot, just seemed off.

[Ben E Lou]

I just sent the following comments to Gary. Can anyone help with the questions I have? (Highlighted in red).



On association setup screen, there needs to be the ability to overwrite an association, rather than forcing the user to start over when he uses a name already used.
I love the coach attribute setting screen. Nice.
STRONG BUDGET SUGGESTION: There *needs* to be a "After coaching salaries, you have $31,000 left. We suggest that you spend $x on scouting reports, $y on summer travel, and save $(31000-x-y) for recruiting" in that budget e-mail. The first time I played the demo, I ran out of money to recruit pretty early on, (played with Kennesaw State) due to overspending on scouting reports and summer travel, I think. This is my third go at the demo, and I still really have no idea how much I need to keep around for recruiting.
E-mails need to be easily printable without having to copy and paste to Notepad.
Good help/explanation on the hire/fire coaches screen. One issue here, though, is that we really shouldn't have to pay salaries for assistant coaches that first year. I'd STRONGLY prefer to start with an empty slate, and let me hire my coaches without penalty in Season 1.
An *are you sure* button on advancing would be nice. I meant to advance from one recruit to the next, and hit the arrow up above instead and went to the next week just a moment ago.
A "delete all" button needs to be added to e-mails, or at least the option to move to the next one when deleting. As it stands now, it is a pain-in-the-butt clickfest to delete multiple camp or scouting report e-mails.
A note each week during recruiting with rating changes would be nice: "From watching further game film of Charles Guy this week, I am more impressed than before with his outside shooting, but am less impressed with his ball handling."
Ummmm...I somehow lost money each week. Is there some action that I need to get rid of for a player? It doesn't look that way. It looks as if each action is week-independent. This needs to be better explained if so.
Is there any advantage in player development or budget to playing tougher competition (like say Kennesaw plays at UGA and gets a big paycheck, and its players improve a little from playing good competition)?
Mouseover help is needed in the Team Roster screen, and several others. I don't know what "DRFL" means off the top of my head, for example.
When the bracket view is enabled during a sim, it sure would be nice to have the winners' names get filled in as we go along.
Conference Award Winners need to be hyperlinked to the player cards.
It appears that one of my recruits signed with me in the final signing period. I need to get an e-mail making me aware of that fact.

[Ben E Lou]

Oh, and after another season with the demo, this one is moving closer to "buy-and-play-upon-release" for me, especially if he adds HTML output soon. With the slow sim speeds of BBCF, I found that I can pretty much play both at the same time, one on the desktop, and the other on the laptop, dealing with one while the other is simming. Nice. :p

[lighthousekeeper]

a pain-in-the-butt clickfest

I love this phrase and will try my best to incorporate it into my conversations today.

[Radii]

I just sent the following comments to Gary. Can anyone help with the questions I have? (Highlighted in red).

STRONG BUDGET SUGGESTION: There *needs* to be a "After coaching salaries, you have $31,000 left. We suggest that you spend $x on scouting reports, $y on summer travel, and save $(31000-x-y) for recruiting" in that budget e-mail. The first time I played the demo, I ran out of money to recruit pretty early on, (played with Kennesaw State) due to overspending on scouting reports and summer travel, I think. This is my third go at the demo, and I still really have no idea how much I need to keep around for recruiting.


I believe that the "Team Info" screen will tell you how much money you have left after coaching salaries. As for the rest, I think that can vary so wildly depending on the number of scholarships needed and your strategy to find your target(s) that it might be impossible to even suggest. If you have 3 scholarships as a small school you may need to stay in state(even in the same region, out of state is quite a bit more expensive to visit than in state IIRC), but if you only have one you might have a couple of choices about how much you spend on scouting, perhaps going after someone in region instead of in state.



Ummmm...I somehow lost money each week. Is there some action that I need to get rid of for a player? It doesn't look that way. It looks as if each action is week-independent. This needs to be better explained if so.



EDIT: Sorry, said this wrong at first. Call list is $5/week/player, watch list is free. Take people off your call list if you decide you have no shot/interest in further pursuing them to save a little cash.


I'm not sure on the other question.

[Radii]

dola, some of the guys on the beta team have been helping out with a recruiting FAQ:

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9747


Keeping someone on the call list is $5 per week per player. The watch list is free.

[Gary Gorski]

Is there any advantage in player development or budget to playing tougher competition (like say Kennesaw plays at UGA and gets a big paycheck, and its players improve a little from playing good competition)?

No, the only advantage of playing tougher competition is that your RPI will be higher which could be of help come tournament time. For a Kennesaw State it won't matter for the NCAA tournament but if you had a really good season and a decent RPI it might be enough to sneak into the NIT

The rest are good comments and I will do my best to implement as many as I can prior to the release. The only thing about the recruiting budget suggestion is that its really hard to suggest what is the right thing to do but here's some tips that might help. For a small school like Kennesaw State I would purchase only the basic report for your region - with a school that small you're not going to be recruiting out of the region for sure and maybe not even out of state. The basic report will give you a great starting point as to who has interest in your school so you can spend your limited budget pursuing those guys. In terms of attending camps with a small school the only one I would consider is the regional camp - there's no point attending a national camp or one outside the region because you aren't going to be recruiting those players anyways. Attending the regional camp will at least let you get ratings on some of the players in your region and you might have a shot at one or two of those guys.

One other note with the budget is to make sure you use it all or at least as much as possible. It will take a little practice to be able to portion the money out for its best use but if you do not spend your budget the board will never grant your requests for an increased budget.

[Gary Gorski]

Mouseover help is needed in the Team Roster screen, and several others. I don't know what "DRFL" means off the top of my head, for example.


dola

When viewing the ratings page you should be able to click the tip button on the right side and get an explanation for the ratings - eg DRFL = Draw Foul. There should also be tips on the stats screens on the roster pages too to show what those abbreviations stand for

[BuffaloHuskey]

During the season. I watch the top 25 when simming--it seemed like the top 25 teams were always beating the unranked teams by 30+. Playing as Duke I never had an unranked team come within 20. I didn't look into it a whole lot, just seemed off.

Look at UConn and Duke this year and they have thrashed all of the unranked teams they have played

[Joe Canadian]

Well this sucks... I can't install the demo. When I run the install file it gets to the part where it copies the fonts and then the program freezes up.

[ScottVib]

For my recruiting in my last game I'm playing as Central Connecticut State. I had only 49,000 to spend on recruiting and much to my dismay 5 scholarship seniors leaving. (Well a good and a bad thing... I have an experienced team and am doing ok and get to remake the team in my image quicker, but I don't exactly have a ton of money)

The first thing I did is opt not to buy ANY scouting reports, nor attend any camps, I have to instead judge my quality by the scrub coaches I have, and the national/regional rankings, but it saved significant cash.

The second thing I did was to focus on instate recruits. I'm in January and have signed 4 of my 5 recruits all of whom were CT residents. It meant I've had enough money to try and fill my 5th rather then leaving it open and taking a Walk On and pushing a scholarship further down to a class with fewer players. It also meant that when some of my targets for that "extra" scholarship seemed to be waivering or losing interest (meaning UConn or some other major program came calling); I was able to expand my search window slightly to pursue other regional players. Of course now I need to hang on for another 4 months to get this new guy to commit and then sign with me.

[cartman]

During the season. I watch the top 25 when simming--it seemed like the top 25 teams were always beating the unranked teams by 30+. Playing as Duke I never had an unranked team come within 20. I didn't look into it a whole lot, just seemed off.

That's been my only beef with FBCB. There are too many times when a pasty blows out a powerhouse. It does happen every once in a while, so there has to be a happy medium somewhere in there.

[ScottVib]

Well this sucks... I can't install the demo. When I run the install file it gets to the part where it copies the fonts and then the program freezes up.

Make sure you have no other programs running prior to running the install. Is there a particular font that is causing the issue?

[Icy]

Ok, i have teamed up with Outlaw77 at GDS forums to release the NCAA pack for TCB. We have released:

- The real teams and conferences database 0.3, with the real names, nicknames, arena names etc. (Thanks to Frosty8311 for your help on that).

- The conferences and teams logo pack on yahoo style as the old ones released for FBCB. I have added some missing ones and edited all them to fit in the TCB interface.


Here are some samples for the logos:

http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/logosample2.jpg (http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/logosample2.jpg)
http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/logosample1.jpg (http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/logosample1.jpg)
http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/logosample3.jpg (http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/logosample3.jpg)

- The courts with the team logos like this sample:
http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/ALB.jpg (http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/ALB.jpg)

All them have been uploaded to Outlaw's site, in the downloads section (no registration needed)
http://www.totalsportssimulations.com (http://www.totalsportssimulations.com/)

We will keep updating the files if something is wrong. I'm going also to try to setup an autoinstaller for all the packs instead of having to download all the files one by one.

[MizzouRah]

Icy,

You and Outlaw have done an excellent job with BBCF and now TCB.

Thanks!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

For a small school like Kennesaw State I would purchase only the basic report for your region - with a school that small you're not going to be recruiting out of the region for sure and maybe not even out of state.

Just out of curiosity, I took a look at their current real-life roster for the KSU Owls.

14 players:
6 from Georgia
3 from Utah* (* 2 of these are brothers & are sons of the head coach)
2 from Michigan
1 from Puerto Rico
1 from Kentucky
1 from Alabama

But even with the 2 coaches' sons not counting normally, still only about half the roster is from Georgia & nearly 1/3rd of the roster is from outside the Southeast region.

KSU is a new D1 program, so I'm thinking maybe that skews their initial roster, so I decide to check Savannah State:

13 players:
7 from Georgia
2 from Florida
1 each from D.C., Maryland, Illinois, and New York

Again, nearly half the roster from outside the state & 1/3 from outside the region.

Anecdotal to be sure, but it makes me wonder about the "conventional wisdom" of small school rosters versus the modern reality of them.

Just .02 from the peanut gallery.

edit to add: I really started wondering a little more about this, so I checked a couple of others off the top of my head

Morgan State: 6 of 15 players from Maryland, 2 from VA, 1 from DC (so 9 of 15 from their geographic region), 1 each from CT, IN, NJ, NY, KY, Canada, (so 40% from outside their geographic region).

Charleston Southern: 6 of 16 players from SC, 3 each from GA & NC (so 12 of 16 from the region), 1 each from FL,NY, CT, and Lithuania (4 of 16 - 25% from outside their region)

Idaho State: 4 of 16 players from ID, 2 each from TX, NY, and CA, 1 each from MN, IN, AK, OR, UT, and NV so at least 6 of 16 or 38% from outside their geographic region.

Long Island U: 3 of 13 players from NY, 3 from Texas, 2 each from Canada & FL, 1 each from Finland, Lithuania, and RI. So at least 7 of 13 (54%) from outside their geographic region.

Stetson U: 9 of 14 players from FL, 3 from GA, 1 each from NY & CT, so 14% from outside their geographic region.
------------
Damn, the more schools I look at (and yes, I know it's a small sample but it's pretty consistent so far) the more I wonder about the conventional wisdom that text sims/gamers apply to recruiting for small schools. Looks very different than "you're not going to be recruiting out of the region for sure and maybe not even out of state."

[Gary Gorski]

Just out of curiosity, I took a look at their current real-life roster for the KSU Owls.

14 players:
6 from Georgia
3 from Utah* (* 2 of these are brothers & are sons of the head coach)
2 from Michigan
1 from Puerto Rico
1 from Kentucky
1 from Alabama

But even with the 2 coaches' sons not counting normally, still only about half the roster is from Georgia & nearly 1/3rd of the roster is from outside the Southeast region.

KSU is a new D1 program, so I'm thinking maybe that skews their initial roster, so I decide to check Savannah State:

13 players:
7 from Georgia
2 from Florida
1 each from D.C., Maryland, Illinois, and New York

Again, nearly half the roster from outside the state & 1/3 from outside the region.

Anecdotal to be sure, but it makes me wonder about the "conventional wisdom" of small school rosters versus the modern reality of them.

Just .02 from the peanut gallery.

edit to add: I really started wondering a little more about this, so I checked a couple of others off the top of my head

Morgan State: 6 of 15 players from Maryland, 2 from VA, 1 from DC (so 9 of 15 from their geographic region), 1 each from CT, IN, NJ, NY, KY, Canada, (so 40% from outside their geographic region).

Charleston Southern: 6 of 16 players from SC, 3 each from GA & NC (so 12 of 16 from the region), 1 each from FL,NY, CT, and Lithuania (4 of 16 - 25% from outside their region)

I went and spoke with an actual D1 coach regarding this and he told me that schools that have small recruiting budgets recruit strictly in state except for opportunities where they can see large groups of players playing at once (ie summer camps, aau tournaments etc) or unless the player has expressed a real interest in coming to their school.

That is basically what I am recreating with TCB - it costs Savannah State the same to make a phone call to a recruit as it does Duke but the difference is Duke can afford to bring the kid in and go out and visit him hoping to spark some interest in him whereas Savannah State doesn't have the budget to be going out of state/region unless they have a legit reason. Small schools in TCB certainly can get out of state/region players but if you're spending the precious few recruiting dollars you have on guys you hope might be interested then you're going to come home broke and without any recruits.

In TCB the Dukes and UNCs have such a large amount of funds they can recruit anyone, anywhere regardless of how they stand initially - sometimes those will be wasted dollars and sometimes it will pay off for them and they will get in the thick of things. The schools with small budgets cannot do that nor do they try to IRL.

[JonInMiddleGA]

That is basically what I am recreating with TCB - it costs Savannah State the same to make a phone call to a recruit as it does Duke but the difference is Duke can afford to bring the kid in and go out and visit him hoping to spark some interest in him whereas Savannah State doesn't have the budget to be going out of state/region unless they have a legit reason. Small schools in TCB certainly can get out of state/region players but if you're spending the precious few recruiting dollars you have on guys you hope might be interested then you're going to come home broke and without any recruits.

In TCB the Dukes and UNCs have such a large amount of funds they can recruit anyone, anywhere regardless of how they stand initially - sometimes those will be wasted dollars and sometimes it will pay off for them and they will get in the thick of things. The schools with small budgets cannot do that nor do they try to IRL.

Okay, so I suppose the real question is (or might be) whether the interest level for players from out of state/out of region accurately models the reality (whatever that reality is)?

Based on the combination of roster composition (again, very limited sample I know) and the input of that D1 coach, it appears that maybe there's an extremely high rate of success for recruiting out-of-region players IRL ... because the schools are generally only making that investment when the player is a virtually sure thing. That would allow for the coach's statement to be accurate and yet still explain the diverse geographical makeup of the sampled rosters.

In other words, I'm following where you're coming from about overall recruiting & geography, but the game model only holds up to reality if the interested players are also modelling reality. i.e. if there's 25-40% of best prospects available AND most interested (ultimately combining into "most likely to accept scholarships") in a small school are from outside their region then there's a match.

At very very very first blush, I'm left to wonder a bit about that in TCB right now, as the starting roster for KSU in my game is entirely made up of Georgia players. Ditto for Morgan State/MD, Long Island/NY, Stetson/FL.
And that appears to be one a heck of a long way from reality.

[Gary Gorski]

In other words, I'm following where you're coming from about overall recruiting & geography, but the game model only holds up to reality if the interested players are also modelling reality. i.e. if there's 25-40% of best prospects available AND most interested (ultimately combining into "most likely to accept scholarships") in a small school are from outside their region then there's a match.

At very very very first blush, I'm left to wonder a bit about that in TCB right now, as the starting roster for KSU in my game is entirely made up of Georgia players. Ditto for Morgan State/MD, Long Island/NY, Stetson/FL.
And that appears to be one a heck of a long way from reality.

Well you have to take into account the fact that there is a difference in initial interest and final signing. At the start you may find very few players out of the region to have any initial interest in a small school out of their home region - but eventually the big schools fill their scholarships and then those out of region players become more open to hearing from a small school.

Also the initial rosters generated are generated having little regard for this (which can easily be changed FWIW if its a big deal)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Also the initial rosters generated are generated having little regard for this (which can easily be changed FWIW if its a big deal)

All that really seems to be a big deal, IMO, is whether the end result reasonably relfects reality. After all, isn't that sort of the general goal of most things text-sim; that there's a reasonable facsimle of a "real" universe?

This was really something that I first looked at only because your comment (to SD) about out of state/out of region sort of ran contrary to what I thought the rosters generally looked like. So I took a look at one ... and then another ... and another. To be honest, the results of those few checks surprised me, the out-of-region was a good bit higher than I expected (if you had made me guess, I would have said 15% or so, basically 1 or 2 per roster), about double what I expected.

From that surprise and at least equally from a desire to avoid a boatload of unpleasant work crap I ought to be doing, I pondered the subject & posted about it.

Whether it's a big deal, a little deal, or no deal at all is really up to the consumer base, not up to me. Personally, now that I know a little more, yeah it would probably bother me every time I looked at my roster/a small school roster. It just seems to me like the sort of thing that ultimately comes down to research & algorithm adjusting, and those are the kinds of things that seem to me that ought to be doable. And if something is readily doable AND creates a more accurate model, then it probably ought to be done. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but done nonetheless.

So there's about four cents worth on top of the original two cents ;)

[st.cronin]

From that surprise and at least equally from a desire to avoid a boatload of unpleasant work crap I ought to be doing,

Don't ever bother sending me a resume you lazy bastard. :p

[JonInMiddleGA]

Don't ever bother sending me a resume you lazy bastard. :p

I figure if I slack too much, I'll just suspend myself with pay for two weeks while I evaluate myself ;)

[st.cronin]

I figure if I slack too much, I'll just suspend myself with pay for two weeks while I evaluate myself ;)


2 weeks? Softy. Indefinite would be the way to go.

[rjolley]

Another thing to look at is how many of those players are transfers, whether they be from jucos, D-II, D-III, or other D-I schools. Often players will move on to another school for playing time, to be closer to home, to be close to girlfriend/friends, etc. That may account for part of the real life rosters being from out of state compared to the game rosters.

[Gary Gorski]

All that really seems to be a big deal, IMO, is whether the end result reasonably relfects reality. After all, isn't that sort of the general goal of most things text-sim; that there's a reasonable facsimle of a "real" universe?

Whether it's a big deal, a little deal, or no deal at all is really up to the consumer base, not up to me. Personally, now that I know a little more, yeah it would probably bother me every time I looked at my roster/a small school roster. It just seems to me like the sort of thing that ultimately comes down to research & algorithm adjusting, and those are the kinds of things that seem to me that ought to be doable. And if something is readily doable AND creates a more accurate model, then it probably ought to be done. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but done nonetheless.

In terms of adjusting the original rosters all I would have to do is change the formula of how the home state is chosen. The level of player created has nothing to do with his home state. And for the small schools rosters I think it really varies on the situation - I quickly looked up two of the smaller programs in Michigan - Oakland and Detroit - and both have 1-2 out of state players it seems but there are also alot of good high school players and teams in the state so there's enough talent to go around to take care of the seven D1 teams in the state - some states don't have nearly as much talent yet have more D1 teams in them like a Maryland (9 teams - Morgan St being one of them) and there are states that do generally have a talented base of home grown talent yet have too many schools in them like New York (21 D1 teams) so a team like Long Island will have to look outside of NY for players.

In TCB you're going to see small schools picking up guys from out of state/region at the very least because the distribution of recruits is not equal to each state. Looking at a file from a 2019 season I see the following...

Savannah St - 3 players from outside of GA (IL, LA, MS)
Morgan St - 6 players from outside of MD (WV, VA, NC, RI, NJ, VT)
Kennesaw St - 3 players from outside of GA (AL, FL, LA)
Idaho St - 10 players from outside of ID (UT, AK, NV, UT, NV, CA, WA, NM, WY, NM)
Long Island - 9 players from outside of NY (RI, VA, NJ, PA, NC, VT, GA, NC, VA)
Oakland - 1 player from outside of MI (OH)
Detroit - 3 players from outside of MI (MN, MN, IL)

So it definitely shakes out to be like real life. FWIW the recruits available in the 2019 season
Michigan - 47
Georgia - 42
New York - 41
Maryland - 34
Idaho - 26

Hopefully that helps ease concerns over whether or not the recruiting and roster breakdown is close to reality.

[Gary Gorski]

Someone asked me a question about how much impact they can have as a coach with the play calling and the like so I thought I would paste a couple of quotes from the GDS forums to answer it for anyone else who is interested in that.

"This game has fixed basically everything that frustrated me about TDCB. While it was a groundbreaking game, I was constantly irritated by the inability to determine what, if any, impact that my changes were having on the game. However, in TCB, the experience has been entirely different. The first game that I played was deeply rewarding in winning the game through adjustments. My 1-2-1-1 press was entirely ineffective in the first half since my team is quite unfamiliar with the press (the old coach used a 2-2-1). However, by switching to a 1/2 ct. 1-3-1 I stymied my opponent in the second half, enabling me to pull away. TCB is the first text-based sim to offer a truly compelling in game experince. "

"Cal had no problem breaking down my 1-3-1 zone with crisp passes along the baseline where there is only one defender. There first 4 buckets were slam dunks by their two big men causing me to make an adjustment of course."

[dl5175]

Ok, i have teamed up with Outlaw77 at GDS forums to release the NCAA pack for TCB. We have released:

- The real teams and conferences database 0.3, with the real names, nicknames, arena names etc. (Thanks to Frosty8311 for your help on that).

- The conferences and teams logo pack on yahoo style as the old ones released for FBCB. I have added some missing ones and edited all them to fit in the TCB interface.


Here are some samples for the logos:

http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/logosample2.jpg (http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/logosample2.jpg)
http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/logosample1.jpg (http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/logosample1.jpg)
http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/logosample3.jpg (http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/logosample3.jpg)

- The courts with the team logos like this sample:
http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/ALB.jpg (http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/ALB.jpg)

All them have been uploaded to Outlaw's site, in the downloads section (no registration needed)
http://www.totalsportssimulations.com (http://www.totalsportssimulations.com/)

We will keep updating the files if something is wrong. I'm going also to try to setup an autoinstaller for all the packs instead of having to download all the files one by one.

Great work. San Diego has Toreres instead of Toreros at the end of the court.
I like the logo but was wondering if you could make the paint area with no paint?

[rexallllsc]

When is the \full version slated to come out? I want to play it!

[Zippo]

I just sent the following comments to Gary. Can anyone help with the questions I have? (Highlighted in red).



Mouseover help is needed in the Team Roster screen, and several others. I don't know what "DRFL" means off the top of my head, for example.


There is a "tip" button on the right hand side that might help you at least on some parts of the roster screen.

[DaddyTorgo]

spent the other nite on recruiting and tinkering. just actually sat through my first game a minute ago. and DAMM gary!

[DaddyTorgo]

can't seem to get the "sim to" button to work properly. if you click it when you're on the day you want to go to it sends you back to the current day and then you have to scroll forward and can't sim. if you click it on the current day and scroll forward you can't sim.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

any way that "game options" (speed, auto-subs...pause at all stops) could be saved so i didn't have to click them every game? not a huge deal, but might be enjoyable.

[Gary Gorski]

can't seem to get the "sim to" button to work properly. if you click it when you're on the day you want to go to it sends you back to the current day and then you have to scroll forward and can't sim. if you click it on the current day and scroll forward you can't sim.

Ok, this might be a tad confusing but the game will only sim from the current day - so any time the page is moved off the current day it disables the play/sim button (this was necessary based on how the code is setup)...anyhow when you choose the sim to option it sends you back to the current day but it is ready to sim to the date you chose (if you notice the box still will say "sim to" in it and not "sim current day") - just click the play/sim button after you get sent back and it will sim to the day you chose.

[DaddyTorgo]

Ok, this might be a tad confusing but the game will only sim from the current day - so any time the page is moved off the current day it disables the play/sim button (this was necessary based on how the code is setup)...anyhow when you choose the sim to option it sends you back to the current day but it is ready to sim to the date you chose (if you notice the box still will say "sim to" in it and not "sim current day") - just click the play/sim button after you get sent back and it will sim to the day you chose.
that's cool. so then after i sim that one day can i then do a "sim to date" and move forward and sim to it? just a little weird, but i'm sure you'll get that question a bunch come to think of it

[Gary Gorski]

you need to go ahead to the date you want to sim to, then chose the sim to date option (which will send you back to the current day) and then click play/sim

[DaddyTorgo]

oh i see! gotit! that's a little odd. does that little popup box explain that, or are you going to be explaining it a million times?

oh yeah and this is definately a "day of release" purchase for me Gary!

[ThunderingHERD]

Oh, and after another season with the demo, this one is moving closer to "buy-and-play-upon-release" for me, especially if he adds HTML output soon. With the slow sim speeds of BBCF, I found that I can pretty much play both at the same time, one on the desktop, and the other on the laptop, dealing with one while the other is simming. Nice. :p

Sim speed is a very pleasant surprise. TPB could definately bog down so I was prepared for the worst--but not only do the games sim quicker but there is also welcome lack of post-sim grinding.

[Galaril]

I posted this over at GDS's board and thought it would be of use to post it here as well.

"I know a fair amount about basketball and know the basic difference between the a 2-3 zone and a 3-2 zone but the diifernce between a 1-2-2 press and a 2-2-1 press is aliitle beyond me. I am foggy on alot of the offensive and defensive paly strategies. I am not complaining it really feels like basic. However, I don't know what the maual is going to contain but a FAQ or tutorial with a detailed explanation about all the strategies, needs to be put together one way or another.Since I might not be the only one that is not sure what is the best strategy to use on offense or defense this would be a big help. I can certainly see Gary has taken alot of care to make a very deep game from the looks of the demo. But, without some type of explanation/guide on this part of the game it could be slightly inaccessable to more casual B-ball fans. Thanks ahead of time for agreat effort on this game Gary."

[Gary Gorski]

If you go to your team roster and choose the team strategy option from the drop down box near the bottom you will see the screen where you can set how often your team runs each play etc... on the left side of that screen are two areas where you can select an offense or defense and get a short description of what it is.

[Gary Gorski]

Is anyone here running the demo on Win 2k? A few guys are having trouble getting it to install with Win 2k so if anyone has successfully installed it with Win 2k I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks

[Galaril]

I posted this on GDS board a small quibble/suggestion for a great looking game sofar:

"I think it would be great to get away to know when a new week is starting without having to calculate the next seven days. In another words it is hard to know when the next week is to fill out the weekly practice plans for your team. What days should it be done for sunday ? when is sunday? Or should it be filled out on x day x month. I also, noticed this coming into play when trying to get an idea of the weekly stuff in the game related to recruiting. For example, I use up all my watch film game film or all my scout a recruit at a game and have to wait until next week for more allocation of these recruiting slots/points. So, how do I know when the week begins and I have been given more of these to start recruiting actions again.But, by far the most confusing is the weekly practice plan. Maybe an email to tell us what date to do the game plan on."

[Barkeep49]

To be a bit of a downer:

I think the underlying game is quite good. However, I find the interace unusable. It takes me way too many clicks to do my basic recruiting actions. It quickly sucked the fun out of things for me. I think if Gary ever gets around to doing a pro game I'm going to fall in love with it, but TCB simply will not be my cup of tea.

[TazFTW]

Total Pro Basketball is not pro enough?

[Axxon]

To be a bit of a downer:

I think the underlying game is quite good. However, I find the interace unusable. It takes me way too many clicks to do my basic recruiting actions. It quickly sucked the fun out of things for me. I think if Gary ever gets around to doing a pro game I'm going to fall in love with it, but TCB simply will not be my cup of tea.

You mean a pro game other than TPB which he has already done? That one is indeed a great game.

[Axxon]

Total Pro Basketball is not pro enough?

No fair, you clicked submit reply a mere second before I did.


Or you're on a faster connection. :D

[Barkeep49]

I don't recall TPB having the depth that TCBD has. Am I wrong? Do I need to give it another look?

[Axxon]

I have one small bit of constructive criticism for Greydog btw.

I wish there was mroe uniformity in their products. I don't mean the exact same interface or anything but some stuff should be standard across their games.

For example, what made me think of it was filtering recruits. I wanted to filter recruits by interest and stars like I can in BBCF but I can't in TCB. If these products were from different companies I'd wish it had the same functionality but would understand. Since they're both put out by the same company it just seems logical that they'd work the same way and it seems sloppy. Not a fault or a problem but sloppy.

[Axxon]

I don't recall TPB having the depth that TCBD has. Am I wrong? Do I need to give it another look?

I'm not the pro on the game but IMHO it was a lot better and it certainly wasn't worse. I'd say it's worth a look, at least the demo.

[Axxon]

Dola, I like college basketball better than the pro product and I will still stand by my comments. Now, FBCB is still the bomb...

[Barkeep49]

I've been playing FBCB again lately, even before the demo came out, and perhaps its the comparison of the two products that has soured me on TCBD.

[Axxon]

I've been playing FBCB again lately, even before the demo came out, and perhaps its the comparison of the two products that has soured me on TCBD.

I can believe it. If you like the pro game though check out the TPB demo again. All I can say is it didn't remind me of TDCB. The only reason I hesitate to say it's great is because I really don't understand the pro salary structure that well so I can't say if it's implemented as well as it should be. It's fun though.

[Galaril]

I have one small bit of constructive criticism for Greydog btw.

I wish there was mroe uniformity in their products. I don't mean the exact same interface or anything but some stuff should be standard across their games.

For example, what made me think of it was filtering recruits. I wanted to filter recruits by interest and stars like I can in BBCF but I can't in TCB. If these products were from different companies I'd wish it had the same functionality but would understand. Since they're both put out by the same company it just seems logical that they'd work the same way and it seems sloppy. Not a fault or a problem but sloppy.


I agree with this 100% the recruiting definitely needs filtering so you can more easliy do some of the recruitiing in a more timely manner. I also, agree that GDS should think about trying to carry some of the useful interface features from one to another of their products. The interface is really going to take some getting use to and the more I play around with the demo I like the Pro game GDS and Gary made last year more than TCB. I thnk their is agreat game in there but the interface is not that great right now. I found the TPB interface usability much better.

[lynchjm24]

------------
Damn, the more schools I look at (and yes, I know it's a small sample but it's pretty consistent so far) the more I wonder about the conventional wisdom that text sims/gamers apply to recruiting for small schools. Looks very different than "you're not going to be recruiting out of the region for sure and maybe not even out of state."


It's even more pronounced in conferences like America East and the NEC. Central Connecticut State has had more good players from Phili, the Bronx, Maryland and Canada then they have had from Connecticut. If you look at a state like Connecticut there aren't more then a handful of scholarship D-I players in a given year... but you've got 7 division 1 schools: CCSU, SHU, Fairfield, UConn, Yale, Hartford & Quinnipiac. Even an area like Boston/Providence has some good players, but not enough to support UMass, Northeastern, BC, BU, Providence, Brown and Rhode Island.


To break down the players from Connecticut - excluding walk-ons:
UConn (1 player - Craig Austrie)
Fairfield (2 or maybe just one, I don't follow FU and Cambria might be a walk-on)
Hartford (1)
CCSU (2 but one is horrible, he's got no right to a scholarship in D-I)
Quinnipiac (3)
SHU (2)
Yale (2 players from CT, both who contribute)

So the state kept 13 players in state over the past 4 years at a total of 7 schools.

You have to be able at small schools to get out and recruit out of the area or you'll have too many players coming out of areas where they don't really exist - like New England

[Gary Gorski]

To be a bit of a downer:

I think the underlying game is quite good. However, I find the interace unusable. It takes me way too many clicks to do my basic recruiting actions. It quickly sucked the fun out of things for me. I think if Gary ever gets around to doing a pro game I'm going to fall in love with it, but TCB simply will not be my cup of tea.

Unusable is a pretty strong word - you said it takes too many clicks to do basic recruiting actions. If you could change the interface how would you alleviate that problem? What would you do differently so that the interface was not "unusable". Certainly if there is something that can be improved upon I'm more than willing to listen and take suggestions.

[Gary Gorski]

For example, what made me think of it was filtering recruits. I wanted to filter recruits by interest and stars like I can in BBCF but I can't in TCB.

That is not true (or perhaps the feature is just not working correctly). If you pull up the recruiting screen underneath the grid there are some filtering options. One checkbox says "with interest" and it will only show you the recruits from the selected area with interest in your school and there are two drop downs for a minimum/maximum star ranking so you can filter by stars as well.

[Gary Gorski]

The interface is really going to take some getting use to and the more I play around with the demo I like the Pro game GDS and Gary made last year more than TCB. I thnk their is agreat game in there but the interface is not that great right now. I found the TPB interface usability much better.

This kind of confuses me because its pretty much the same interface simply adapted for college options instead of pro options. What is it that you are finding about the interface that is not to your liking or that is so much different than TPB's interface?

[Axxon]

Unusable is a pretty strong word - you said it takes too many clicks to do basic recruiting actions. If you could change the interface how would you alleviate that problem? What would you do differently so that the interface was not "unusable". Certainly if there is something that can be improved upon I'm more than willing to listen and take suggestions.

Unusable, no but I can answer one tiny change here.

As I understand it, the watch list and the call list right now are the same thing. What I mean is, since the functionality of the watch list ( scouting camps ) aren't mirrored in the call list nor the other way around, then anyone you want to call you will want to watch as well so you don't miss his scouting.

This means that you must click twice for every guy for the most basic action. It's weird.

Either make both lists available for scouting, with the call list being for the extra interest or drop one of the lists. I started with the idea that I'd populate each list, the call list with my most interesting prospects and the other list for backups then read that only the backups would give me reports on the camps. Why even have two lists?

[Axxon]

That is not true (or perhaps the feature is just not working correctly). If you pull up the recruiting screen underneath the grid there are some filtering options. One checkbox says "with interest" and it will only show you the recruits from the selected area with interest in your school and there are two drop downs for a minimum/maximum star ranking so you can filter by stars as well.

Right but with interest just shows any level of interest, with no gradiations or any sorting. In BBCF you can pick those with level 10 interest, 9 interest etc. You can pinpoint more easily who you want to work with.

I know it's harder in your game since it's not the same interest scale but maybe something like, "# one school", "top three", top 10" etc or even minimally separate the YES interest from the some interest from the lows would help a lot.

As it is, we have to sift through a lot of players just to see where we have a chance and really, I'd hire an assistant to order the names for me since the information is available. :)

[Axxon]

Actually, what I'd love to see, though I don't know if it play balances is for the watch list to be guys who's interest would go down slower than unwatched guys and the call list to be for guys you call and scout in camp where interest goes up actually and both could cost money but the call list would cost more.

I'd really enjoy that.

[HerRealName]

Right but with interest just shows any level of interest, with no gradiations or any sorting. In BBCF you can pick those with level 10 interest, 9 interest etc. You can pinpoint more easily who you want to work with.

I know it's harder in your game since it's not the same interest scale but maybe something like, "# one school", "top three", top 10" etc or even minimally separate the YES interest from the some interest from the lows would help a lot.

As it is, we have to sift through a lot of players just to see where we have a chance and really, I'd hire an assistant to order the names for me since the information is available. :)

In the drop down menu, choose the General Info view. Then you can click on the Interest column header to sort by level of interest. The categories are more generalized than 1 through 10 but it does give you a list of recruits with high, medium, low, or no interest.

[Axxon]

One of the reasons the sort is annoying is the interface. The interest screen and the recruit screen, not to mention in later rounds the notes screen all require a click so its..

Click the first player, click the interest screen, if it's good, click the recruit screen and recruit THEN click next player, click the interest screen AGAIN, then if it's good, etc... every recruit.

If we could filter better, especially in week one, we could get a quick and dirty list of all the yesses and work them without having to search the interest screen with every guy. Once we're working off our lists this becomes less and less important but it makes a difference when you have the entire nation to look at.

[Axxon]

In the drop down menu, choose the General Info view. Then you can click on the Interest column header to sort by level of interest. The categories are more generalized than 1 through 10 but it does give you a list of recruits with high, medium, low, or no interest.

I'll check that out. Thanks. I definitely missed that one. :)

[Barkeep49]

Gary first let say that I downloaded the TPB demo and found it to be far superior in terms of interface. I would have bought it except A)Without getting to see what free angency is like I'm weary and B)I think TCB has some extra personality that I like.

As for your question, perhaps I'm going about things the wrong way, but each week I had to pull up my call list and then click through the 20 or so players to see what new notes I had. In the first few weeks I wanted to make sure I had scouted everyone's game film so that was at least 2 more clicks. If I got a comment indicated I should stop recruiting, I then needed to perform 4 more clicks. Essentially the information I need to access was so spread out it felt tedious to do.

As for suggestions on how to make it better, the first one to come to mind is on the often mentioned watch list/call list area which is a player should automatically be added to your watch list when you add them to your call list and automatically take them off your call list when you remove them from your watch list. My second suggestion would be to put the recruiting buttons on the Notes screen.

Beyond that I don't know. I appreciate you soliciting my feedback.

[Barkeep49]

I'll check that out. Thanks. I definitely missed that one. :)
Me too!

[Axxon]

Thanks HerRealName, I withdraw my comments on the sorting. I had simply missed it and that's what I was really looking for.

Of course, Gary, having the with interest check box right under the drop down filters for the stars really makes it seem that this is the only level of interest sorting you have... ;)

[Gary Gorski]

One thing I dont know if you know is that if you click on a recruit in either a filtered list or your call/watch list then you dont need to keep going back to the original recruiting screen but you can filter through just those guys using the arrows in the upper right corner of the player card. So if you want to say watch game films on every player on your call list then open up your call list, double click the first recruit, go to the actions tab and click the button to order the tape then just click the right arrow at the top of the player card and you'll move right to the next guy on your list and be right at the place you need to be to do his actions. Just a FYI

As for the watch list/call list they are different because they serve different functions. The call list is a list of up to 50 players that you contact each week (with of course a cost for each player on that list each week). Having players on your call list is how you generate the recruit notes during the season. The watch list serves an entirely different purpose - prior to each camp you can populate the watch list with up to 50 players to watch - doing so will get you some type of feedback if your team and that player attended the camp. After the camps the watch list is only useful for if you want to add a few guys to it that you might come back and check out later on - just so you dont have to manually write down a list of guys to keep an eye on. You get no further benefit/info from the watch list after the summer camps - after that you can ignore it unless like I said you want to note a few guys to come back to later on.

[jbmagic]

Gary will all this info be included in the Game manual when the game is release?

[Axxon]

One thing I dont know if you know is that if you click on a recruit in either a filtered list or your call/watch list then you dont need to keep going back to the original recruiting screen but you can filter through just those guys using the arrows in the upper right corner of the player card. So if you want to say watch game films on every player on your call list then open up your call list, double click the first recruit, go to the actions tab and click the button to order the tape then just click the right arrow at the top of the player card and you'll move right to the next guy on your list and be right at the place you need to be to do his actions. Just a FYI

As for the watch list/call list they are different because they serve different functions. The call list is a list of up to 50 players that you contact each week (with of course a cost for each player on that list each week). Having players on your call list is how you generate the recruit notes during the season. The watch list serves an entirely different purpose - prior to each camp you can populate the watch list with up to 50 players to watch - doing so will get you some type of feedback if your team and that player attended the camp. After the camps the watch list is only useful for if you want to add a few guys to it that you might come back and check out later on - just so you dont have to manually write down a list of guys to keep an eye on. You get no further benefit/info from the watch list after the summer camps - after that you can ignore it unless like I said you want to note a few guys to come back to later on.

But we're going to want to watch everyone on the call list aren't we? These are the guys we're trying to recruit. It wouldn't make sense to call a guy but blow off his camp for a guy you're not interested in enough to call so basically we have to click a button for every guy which is only used for a small portion of the year when we're already clicking another button to show we're interested in him.

I understand what you are trying to do but it's an awful lot of work for the player and the benefit isn't big enough and it's just not fun. It could use changing. Just IMHO but it's busywork.

[Axxon]

I guess it could be that you are so small of a school that you can't afford a full call list. I hadn't thought of that but it still seems a lot of work for simple preseason camps. I dunno.

[Gary Gorski]

Well would it help if there was an additional button that added them to both the call and watch list at the same time?

[Barkeep49]

Yes.

[Axxon]

Well would it help if there was an additional button that added them to both the call and watch list at the same time?

Yeah, but would it be simpler to just add the call list people automatically to the watch list? I can think of reasons not to add all watch list guys to the call list but since the watch list is free, I can't imagine not watching a call list guy.

Also calling it Watch Camps or something button would clear a lot of it up. The list really loses usefullness after the camps and if we realize that's what we're doing when we put a guy on there it would be clearer.

Also, what more information do you get when you have a guy on the watch list and you're at camp that you won't get from the camp report anyway? I'm not really sure.

[Galaril]

One thing I dont know if you know is that if you click on a recruit in either a filtered list or your call/watch list then you dont need to keep going back to the original recruiting screen but you can filter through just those guys using the arrows in the upper right corner of the player card. So if you want to say watch game films on every player on your call list then open up your call list, double click the first recruit, go to the actions tab and click the button to order the tape then just click the right arrow at the top of the player card and you'll move right to the next guy on your list and be right at the place you need to be to do his actions. Just a FYI

As for the watch list/call list they are different because they serve different functions. The call list is a list of up to 50 players that you contact each week (with of course a cost for each player on that list each week). Having players on your call list is how you generate the recruit notes during the season. The watch list serves an entirely different purpose - prior to each camp you can populate the watch list with up to 50 players to watch - doing so will get you some type of feedback if your team and that player attended the camp. After the camps the watch list is only useful for if you want to add a few guys to it that you might come back and check out later on - just so you dont have to manually write down a list of guys to keep an eye on. You get no further benefit/info from the watch list after the summer camps - after that you can ignore it unless like I said you want to note a few guys to come back to later on.


Gary, this is awesome and greta information but I would not know this unless you told us this. It needs to be in the manual.

[Gary Gorski]

Also, what more information do you get when you have a guy on the watch list and you're at camp that you won't get from the camp report anyway? I'm not really sure.

You get a note in your recruiting notes section like "Player X didn't really stand out at the camp" or "Player Y was definitely a top ten player" - its just something else to help you sort things out when you come back from the camp and there's ten guys who are rated similar.

[Axxon]

You get a note in your recruiting notes section like "Player X didn't really stand out at the camp" or "Player Y was definitely a top ten player" - its just something else to help you sort things out when you come back from the camp and there's ten guys who are rated similar.

Gotcha. I've seen those notes but didn't know why I was getting them. I like them. They are a neat touch.

You know, I'm still not sold on the idea but what you've described it as being is a lot cooler than it is presented in game terms. In terms of the process it bogs down but in terms of the idea you're trying to get across it sounds good. Since I'm not the only one who didn't realize that this is what was happening though, that needs to be addressed in the manual but I'm pretty sure you guys have a handle on that already.

[Gary Gorski]

Well Im going to add in buttons to add/remove from both lists at once to try and make life a little easier and I'll go over the manual prior to release and make sure it has as much info about this kind of stuff as possible. Thanks for your feedback - if I can do something to make the game more intuitive or easier to get a handle on I'm more than willing to do so.

[Axxon]

Also, consider this, we wouldn't bother watch listing guys who we weren't going to have a chance to see in a camp, either because we didn't schedule one that they're going to or they aren't going to one at all. We should get a warning if we try to watch list that guy. It would be a pretty cool addition and put some more strategy in the game.

[Axxon]

Well Im going to add in buttons to add/remove from both lists at once to try and make life a little easier and I'll go over the manual prior to release and make sure it has as much info about this kind of stuff as possible. Thanks for your feedback - if I can do something to make the game more intuitive or easier to get a handle on I'm more than willing to do so.

Hey, we all want the same thing, a killer game. Thanks for listening to our feedback. It's well appreciated. :)

[Axxon]

Also, consider this, we wouldn't bother watch listing guys who we weren't going to have a chance to see in a camp, either because we didn't schedule one that they're going to or they aren't going to one at all. We should get a warning if we try to watch list that guy. It would be a pretty cool addition and put some more strategy in the game.

Let me try this one on.

If we got a list of who was attending the camps, pre camp, we could fill out our watch lists from among the attendees and it would add to strategy because any time you're perusing a recruit list, you're forming your recruiting strategy. For me, this would be a great place to start my recruiting season strategy knowing exactly which camps I'm going to and who I'm concentrating on. I'd even better like the list before I choose which camps to attend but that may be too much.

Now THAT sounds fun. :)

[Axxon]

Ok, adding to the last post.

You start your lists pre camp and you fil out your watch/call list with the auto buttons. The camps are run and we now have used up the basic purpose of the watch portion so all the player need concern himself with is removing people from the call list solely so that would be an easier step.

We'd get an in game reason for the watch list that we could even be prompted to do with an email, "Summer camps are just around the corner. Make sure we have our watch list strategy planned out..." Something like that.

This would make sense, add strategy at the beginning and be pretty streamlined in the button pushing department.

[Axxon]

Here's another couple of niceties I see that would be nice as I demo TCB while watching the Fiesta Bowl and typing on the internet. :)

Can we get some more filters?

I don't really recruit JUCO's so a filter for them would be great. Also, a filter for gpa since that's a pretty important consideration as well. Not big things at all but they would be really nice. Of course, I don't know how you'd fit them in with the current screen. :)

I'd sure use them though. No point having to look at guys you're not even remotely interested in.

[lighthousekeeper]

wow a quintuple dola - axxon's not a man to edit a post

[Axxon]

wow a quintuple dola - axxon's not a man to edit a post

What? I edited two of them. :D

Basically, to me it's not a dola if I go away from an subject then get a new idea and then posting that. A dola is hitting submit reply and then going "oh yeah, I forgot" and then typing a new reply.

[Grunthos]

After the camps the watch list is only useful for if you want to add a few guys to it that you might come back and check out later on


I'd agree with the comments above about the awkwardness of the interface, and I think Gary's quote points up the main problem I have with the recruiting system. The biggest challenge in the player acquisition portion of any management sim is allowing the user to organize player information in useful ways. In TCB, I have two main listing screens to keep track of guys I'm interested in, and neither of them allows me to organize information comprehensively, so I have to keep flipping back and forth. Specifically:

- The call list screen allows me to easily see all the recruits I'm actually pursuing, and I can cycle through them quickly, but I can't sort any information there (by position or scouting grades or whatever).
- The list on the main recruting screen can be set to include just the players I am watching, and I can sort players by various attributes, but it's much too compact for me to use it as my main tracking list; I have to flip back and forth between two lists just to see all the scouting grades. I end up using the watch list function as a means of delimiting what players I should be tracking on this screen, but I have to click around to make sure I know who I'm calling and who I'm taking other actions on.

There's no way to (for example) sort by recruiting efforts already made... I've got no listing for how many times I've watched tape on a recruit or attended live games... It's very hard to separate the guys I've already targeted and lost or rejected from guys who are interested but I haven't gone after yet (important if I have to switch to a new recruit target due to losing my primary targets or having an extra scholarship open up)... It seems to me that the design relies too much on the assumption that I'm going to target just a few guys at each position from the get-go and track all their recruiting history in my head.

One thing I would find very useful (but I don't know whether others would agree) would be to have a data field on each player card that simply allows the user to select 1-10 or A-F or whatever so that I can sort the players into categories for my own purposes. For example, I might mark the guys I really want most as 10's, their primary backups as 9's, other useful potential targets as 8's, guys I've looked at and rejected in the 2-5 range, guys who rejected me as 1's. Anything that lets me do a shorthand categorization of recruits would be helpful.

Thanks for listening, Gary. I think you have a promising game design here; I'm much more intrigued by this sim than I was by FBCB or TDCB.

[Gary Gorski]

- The call list screen allows me to easily see all the recruits I'm actually pursuing, and I can cycle through them quickly, but I can't sort any information there (by position or scouting grades or whatever).

Hopefully with the button I am adding to add to both the watch/call list at the same time this will be not as much of an issue since you can filter by recruits "you're watching" on the main recruiting screen

It's very hard to separate the guys I've already targeted and lost or rejected from guys who are interested but I haven't gone after yet (important if I have to switch to a new recruit target due to losing my primary targets or having an extra scholarship open up)

There is a filter for recruits "you've contacted" which should list every player in that state/region/nationally that you have contacted with a recruiting effort at some point in time. Also after you have taken an action with that player for the week he is listed in yellow in the grids. You can also filter "by interest" and you can use more than one filter at a time so you can pretty quickly filter the guys "you've contacted" "with interest" and can also filter out guys who have given verbals or signed LOIs so you can filter down to just who is available.

One thing I would find very useful (but I don't know whether others would agree) would be to have a data field on each player card that simply allows the user to select 1-10 or A-F or whatever so that I can sort the players into categories for my own purposes. For example, I might mark the guys I really want most as 10's, their primary backups as 9's, other useful potential targets as 8's, guys I've looked at and rejected in the 2-5 range, guys who rejected me as 1's. Anything that lets me do a shorthand categorization of recruits would be helpful.

Well what say some of you others on this? There is room on the grid when you pick Gen Info for another column and Im sure something like this could be added to the notes section of the player card for you to rank a player with your own system. The only problem with adding something like this is that it will make people unable to continue their demo seasons since I would have to add an additional variable to the save code. Is something like this useful enough to warrant doing that? It would seem that the watch list could be used for something like this IMO - if you are going to manually go back in and rank players as 1s because they reject you wouldn't it be just as easy to go in and take them off your watch list and replace them with someone else? Especially since you can filter by your watch list and any other variable like this would just be a category to sort by?

[DaddyTorgo]

with regards to the suggestion by grunthos for a 1-10/a-f thing or whatever. I don't personally think I would find that useful. All of his other suggestions seem great, but that just seems like something you could kinda keep track of yourself by using your watch list effectively. after the camps i use the "watch" list as more of a "these are my backups" sort of thing, and take off the players who i am actively pursuing off of it. so then if i need to go to a "backup" recruit i know i will find him on my watch list, but none of the other guys, b/c as soon as i start "recruiting" them after the camps are done, i just unclick them off my "watch" list.

did that make sense?

[Dekanth]

Who can give a good comparison to FBCB based on this demo?

[Grunthos]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski
There is a filter for recruits "you've contacted" which should list every player in that state/region/nationally that you have contacted with a recruiting effort at some point in time. Also after you have taken an action with that player for the week he is listed in yellow in the grids. You can also filter "by interest" and you can use more than one filter at a time so you can pretty quickly filter the guys "you've contacted" "with interest" and can also filter out guys who have given verbals or signed LOIs so you can filter down to just who is available.

Yes, I've been using those techniques... I still find myself flipping from watch list to call list to player card notes and back to watch list in a rather inconvenient manner. It's not impossible to manage the info, but things are scattered. Admittedly, this is hard to program for a wide audience... most text sims have some difficulty or another in this area.



Originally Posted by Gary Gorski
The only problem with adding something like this is that it will make people unable to continue their demo seasons

Ouch... even if people were to find it useful, it should probably wait for the next generation of the game, then. I'd concentrate on reorganizing existing data in ways people find easier to use (e.g. making the recruit screen list larger vis-a-vis the map to allow more columns of information, adding more ways to display existing information, etc.) before making an addition that will break up savegames.

Thx for the quick response!

[Icy]

I would make a poll at GDS before doing changes not savegame compatible. I'd go for it as anyway i never start a serious dynasty until the final game has been released and patched at leats once, but some customers will complain, you know how whiners are us, the text sims players :) If the poll result says that you should make the change, then nobody can blame you for listening to your customers.

[JonInMiddleGA]

FWIW, I think I've heard a lot worse ideas than the "A-F or 1-5 notes column" thingy.

20 players on the watch list, 10+ on the call list, all at the same two positions (I only had two schollies to offer), all with +++ or ++ interest, I found it difficult to remember which PF was priority 1, which was priority 2, which was not a priority except in case of recruiting disaster, etc.

I had a very clear feeling of "thank God I signed both during the early window so I don't have to deal with this any longer", so anything that would help alleviate that would be welcome IMO.

Just my .02, cause you asked.

[Samdari]

Ugh, yet another greydog demo that requires many "support files" to be installed.

I hate that. No other company requires me to work so hard to get their games to work. I don't want windows media player on my system, why should I have to have it to play your game.

[Gary Gorski]

Ugh, yet another greydog demo that requires many "support files" to be installed.

I hate that. No other company requires me to work so hard to get their games to work. I don't want windows media player on my system, why should I have to have it to play your game.

Well WMP is used to do things like play sound clips during gameplay - you can even place team chants in the audio/ingame folder for use in your home games. For example if someone had a wav of "Rock, Chalk, Jayhawk" you could take it, name it teamKANchant.wav (or whatever abbrev you are using for Kansas) and place it in that folder and it would play during your home games or if you made .wav files of player's names you could place them in that folder with a firstname_lastname.wav file and it would announce their name after a basket at home.

Also if you have downloaded our other games or demos its basically the same support files so you dont need to keep redownloading them you know. Sorry if you don't like WMP - I didn't really think people would have a problem with putting it on their computer and that most people had it anyways.

[Ben E Lou]

Sorry if you don't like WMP - I didn't really think people would have a problem with putting it on their computer and that most people had it anyways.C'mon. It's not like you have to get some obscure dll's, or even a dot net framework, (neither of which is difficult, imho). This is freakin' Windows Media Player. You don't have to apologize for making that a requirement.

[MizzouRah]

C'mon. It's not like you have to get some obscure dll's, or even a dot net framework, (neither of which is difficult, imho). This is freakin' Windows Media Player. You don't have to apologize for making that a requirement.
Shhhh... you're going to get Jon mad about Windows ME again. :p

[Ben E Lou]

Shhhh... you're going to get Jon mad about Windows ME again. :pWhoops. Good point. :D

[Samdari]

C'mon. It's not like you have to get some obscure dll's, or even a dot net framework, (neither of which is difficult, imho). This is freakin' Windows Media Player. You don't have to apologize for making that a requirement.

I am able to play any other game I have ever bought without it. I avoid Microsoft products (wherever possible) as a matter of policy.

Other games manage to have sound without it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

C'mon. It's not like you have to get some obscure dll's, or even a dot net framework, (neither of which is difficult, imho). This is freakin' Windows Media Player. You don't have to apologize for making that a requirement.

Although this is pretty minor (hell, even I've got WMP) it does continue a somewhat disturbing trend of games in general doing things because they can not necessarily because they should or need to.

If some meaningless function like playing a .wav is part of the plan, then there should be a way for the gamer to bypass it. Don't have WMP, then no sound files for you, but that shouldn't render the game unplayable. For all I know that's the case here (although that's not the impression I get from the dev's reply) -- if it is, then props for that implementation. If it isn't, then yeah, I'd say it's a design choice deserving of at least a little criticism.

(In this instance, frankly, I don't particularly give a rat's ass, but since one of our comedians decided to put me in the conversation I figured I might as well at least put in my actual two cents worth instead of having it done for me).

[Samdari]

If some meaningless function like playing a .wav is part of the plan, then there should be a way for the gamer to bypass it. Don't have WMP, then no sound files for you, but that shouldn't render the game unplayable.

Bingo, that's what I am looking for. I almost invariably play all of my games without sound (after I have heard all the sounds in a game, they become annoying noise to me) so needing to install support files for a feature I will turn off is particularly annoying.

As for both of Gary's GDS games, the demos exit on startup saying you need to install wmp to play.

Sorry for the rant earlier Gary, I did not mean to get personal. I hear great things about your games, and I'd love to try them (I'd probably buy both). I just don't want installing them to be so much work (there are three different support files packages listed) and force me to install software I hate on top of that.

[Ben E Lou]

If some meaningless function like playing a .wav is part of the plan, then there should be a way for the gamer to bypass it. Don't have WMP, then no sound files for you, but that shouldn't render the game unplayable.That's a fair expectation, I'd say. Good point.

[WSUCougar]

One suggestion, Gary, and I apologize in advance if it's been mentioned already.

Would there be any way to better visually represent the information in the Notes section for each recruit? All of the lines of often-repetitious text are very dry and hard to take in at a glance.

One thought would be to have color-coding and columns representing the various elements in spread sheet fashion. For example, the far left column would be the date of the note, and then a green icon in the "Academics" column could indicate that the recruit values academics highly. Perhaps a gray icon in the "Prestige" column would indicate little or no concern for prestige by the recruit. A "p" in the column would indicate parental comments. Colors could get darker or brighter for stronger or repeated sentiments.

In this way, a glance at the Note matrix gives me a quick read of the Notes that I can't get at present.

[Coder]

That's a fair expectation, I'd say. Good point.

Unfortunately, if you include a reference in a VB-project I'm pretty certain you're stuck with it no matter if sound is optional or not in this case.

i.e. Gary has included some media-player dlls as references (basically re-usable code written by microsoft so that developers don't have to write entire sound libraries) into the TPB and TCB projects. These are not codesnippets that he can "test" around (no if-structures) but they're included by the VB-compiler into the final exe.

To be perfectly honest though, I don't consider this a big deal. The inclusion is not very different from installing Direct X on a computer, something which at least 99.9% of today's games require anyway.

Shoot me down if I'm off base.

[Gary Gorski]

One thought would be to have color-coding and columns representing the various elements in spread sheet fashion. For example, the far left column would be the date of the note, and then a green icon in the "Academics" column could indicate that the recruit values academics highly. Perhaps a gray icon in the "Prestige" column would indicate little or no concern for prestige by the recruit. A "p" in the column would indicate parental comments. Colors could get darker or brighter for stronger or repeated sentiments.

That's an interesting idea - I'm not sure I can work something like this in before the game is released but might be patchable

[Recoil]

I hope this is released in the next few weeks.

[Dekanth]

Who can give a good comparison to FBCB based on this demo?


Anyone?

[WSUCougar]

Anyone?
As much as I loved FBCB, this game has so much more to offer, at least based on the demo. Depth, graphics, gameplay. IMO, this is FBCB with a lot of polishing.

[Wolfpack]

Here's a question. How does it handle scheduling for 12-team conferences (or larger)? Is it one-size-fits-all or are there multiple methods to choose from? I say this because the Big 12 has "divisional scheduling" without divisions in the standings (i.e. North-South split as in football, but not reflected in standings) and the SEC has full divisions (East-West) and division scheduling. However, the ACC is different in that each team has two "permanent partners" (biggest rivals) and a rotation of three other teams each year that are home-and-home with the remaining games split home and away. This also means there's no divisions in the ACC. Is there a way to duplicate that or would I have to resort to a "Big 12" model and try to replicate at least a majority of the partnerships that way?

[Gary Gorski]

Here's a question. How does it handle scheduling for 12-team conferences (or larger)? Is it one-size-fits-all or are there multiple methods to choose from? I say this because the Big 12 has "divisional scheduling" without divisions in the standings (i.e. North-South split as in football, but not reflected in standings) and the SEC has full divisions (East-West) and division scheduling. However, the ACC is different in that each team has two "permanent partners" (biggest rivals) and a rotation of three other teams each year that are home-and-home with the remaining games split home and away. This also means there's no divisions in the ACC. Is there a way to duplicate that or would I have to resort to a "Big 12" model and try to replicate at least a majority of the partnerships that way?

I'll be more than happy to field this one since I spent about three weeks of my life doing it. For the 12 team conferences there are actually 5 different conference play models so yes each one is mimicked correctly with the correct amount of games and the best scheduling model I could possibly make.

In terms of the rotation of games and conferences like the Big East where some teams are played twice and others not at all on a rotated basis those should be modeled accurately as well.

[Wolfpack]

I'll be more than happy to field this one since I spent about three weeks of my life doing it.

I'll bet those are three weeks you'd like to have back. ;)

Seriously, thanks for the quick reply. Frankly, I actually don't like the ACC's current model of scheduling and would have preferred three "mini-divisions" instead (BC-MD-VA-VT, UNC-NCSU-Duke-Wake, Clem-GT-FSU-Miami). Teams in each group go home-and-home for six games, play one rotating team from each other group home-and-away, and then play the remaining teams in a group at home and the other group away. It just makes no sense that State and Duke can't go home-and-home every year anymore. I understand that TV is almighty and ESPN has the craven need to show Duke and Maryland since that's the flavor-of-the-month rivalry right now (aside from Duke-UNC), but it still grates that the Big 4 aren't home-and-home like they ought to be. (I know CraigSca and terpkristin will beg to differ, but they're up in "Alaska" anyway... ;) ) I suppose it would be too late and too much trouble to provide this as a scheduling option for a 12-team league?

BTW, what are the 12-team arrangements? I believe you have these three covered:
*Two-division, 16-game model (SEC)
*One-division (two phantom divisions), 16-game model (Big XII)
*One-division team parntership, 16-game model (ACC)

What are the other two? Just variants on these with maybe 18 or 14 games?

Also, how much control could you have over the universe? Do I have to have X number of conferences conforming to Y different configurations or could I, for example, chop up the Big East into a football-basketball Big East and then create a "Great East" that consists of only the basketball-playing schools? Also, could I do such horse-swapping in mid-stream, as it were? That is, start in 2005, project a change in conferences five years down the line, and change everything accordingly and have it all run okay or will I be locked into a final design at the start of the timeline?

[WSUCougar]

Gary, another thought for you. The PBP and the 2D are cool, but mutually exclusive (at least for me). I find myself watching the 2D action most of the time and then darting glances at the PBP now and then. However, I really like the little pop-up that comes up when a player scores or rebounds. Any chance of blending that function with the PBP to a greater degree? In other words, rather than a series of descriptive lines stacked in the PBP window, what if each pertinent line popped up near the player in the 2D section. It wouldn't need to be every pass or dribble, but little blurbs would be cool.

Example:
[Pop-up near the point guard]: Johnson brings the ball-up and breaks the press
[Pop-up near the power forward]: Reed snares the entry pass but has no shot
A few passes around the court.
[Pop-up near the shooting guard]: Smith shoots off the dribble...and drains it!

[Icy]

Gary, another thought for you. The PBP and the 2D are cool, but mutually exclusive (at least for me). I find myself watching the 2D action most of the time and then darting glances at the PBP now and then. However, I really like the little pop-up that comes up when a player scores or rebounds. Any chance of blending that function with the PBP to a greater degree? In other words, rather than a series of descriptive lines stacked in the PBP window, what if each pertinent line popped up near the player in the 2D section. It wouldn't need to be every pass or dribble, but little blurbs would be cool.

Example:
[Pop-up near the point guard]: Johnson brings the ball-up and breaks the press
[Pop-up near the power forward]: Reed snares the entry pass but has no shot
A few passes around the court.
[Pop-up near the shooting guard]: Smith shoots off the dribble...and drains it!
I propossed it to Gary at GDS forums and by PM with two samples of how could it be done:

First, have a flashing box telling what hapends. For example in this image i just edited and added the STEAL! box.

http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/pbpsample1.jpg (http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/pbpsample1.jpg)

Second, i find a more natural place to have the pbp under the basket court as i draw it in the following image. That way we have the full pbp at the left, and the last phrase under the court, way more easy to read while watching the pbp.

http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/pbpsample2.jpg (http://www.prodeportes.com/tcb/pbpsample2.jpg)

You can also use both ideas, the flashing text box and the pbp last phrase under the court.

[Gary Gorski]

BTW, what are the 12-team arrangements? I believe you have these three covered:
*Two-division, 16-game model (SEC)
*One-division (two phantom divisions), 16-game model (Big XII)
*One-division team parntership, 16-game model (ACC)

What are the other two? Just variants on these with maybe 18 or 14 games?

The fourth is the CAA model - 18 games (there are two groups of 6 and you play your group twice, two non group twice and the other four non group once)

The fifth is the C-USA model - 14 games (three groups of four and you play your group members twice and all non group members once)

Also, how much control could you have over the universe? Do I have to have X number of conferences conforming to Y different configurations or could I, for example, chop up the Big East into a football-basketball Big East and then create a "Great East" that consists of only the basketball-playing schools? Also, could I do such horse-swapping in mid-stream, as it were? That is, start in 2005, project a change in conferences five years down the line, and change everything accordingly and have it all run okay or will I be locked into a final design at the start of the timeline?

Well Im aiming for you to be able to set it up however you like to start and that kind of locks it in from there. It hasn't been tried but you might be able to add additional conferences in through the default file (although you cannot add teams - 335 is the max). You would have to conform to one of the current conference formats though so 8,9,10,11,12,14 or 16 team conferences are possible with 3 different configurations of the 11 team conference and the aforementioned 5 configurations of the 12 team conference.

[Groundhog]

Anyone?

First of all, as I've said many times, FBCB is my favourite game of all time. With that in mind, here are my impressions of TCB.

I played through one season, and my initial impression is that I'm impressed. I like the interface (though it took me some time to figure out where everything was), I like the PbP (especially the moving visual display of the on-court action), I LOVE the game-by-game log available on the player card (something that I loved in Arlie's college games too), I like the extra ratings to do with personality and the results (though I didn't scrutinize them too closely) looked good to me. Stat-wise I noticed a few things that are out of wack, like the steals example that I mentioned earlier in this thread, but everything else seemed fine at a cursory glance.

Overall, this is a very promising first release, but I don't know, maybe it's just because I've been using FBCB for so long and I'm comfortable and happy with it, but I can't see TCB taking me away from FBCB. I love FBCB's simple layout and the ability to tweak the engine, and I'm very impressed with the stats the game produces.

Having said that though I will purchase TCB when it's released so who knows, and I think it's great that there is some quality competition on the market.

[Gary Gorski]

BTW, for the stats issue with people averaging like 5-7 steals per game - it is a bug that is caused by always attributing the steal in the box score to the point guard when playing a zone defense. Those players really arent getting those outrageous amounts of steals each game - its just that every time one of their teammates got one while playing a zone it was credited to the PG. It will be fixed for the release version.

[Groundhog]

BTW, for the stats issue with people averaging like 5-7 steals per game - it is a bug that is caused by always attributing the steal in the box score to the point guard when playing a zone defense. Those players really arent getting those outrageous amounts of steals each game - its just that every time one of their teammates got one while playing a zone it was credited to the PG. It will be fixed for the release version.

Ah nice, I didn't notice it was just PGs.

[scooter]

I have a question for those of you that have been playing this demo for a while. I'm trying to figure out when is the correct time to start handing out scholarships during recruiting. I'm playing as Holy Cross and I only have one scholarship this year so I need to make it count. I've got a number of potential targets picked out, but none of them have Holy Cross as their #1 school (I've got a couple of MA boys that have us as #2 and #3). When is the best time to offer the scholarship? Should I wait until the Contact period in Sept to visit them and try to push their interest level to #1?

Also, is there a way to change a players position? I've got 4 PG and 2 SG with one of my PG having excellent outside shooting. I'd like to switch him to SG if I can.

Thanks.

[Gary Gorski]

Also, is there a way to change a players position? I've got 4 PG and 2 SG with one of my PG having excellent outside shooting. I'd like to switch him to SG if I can.

Thanks.

Just set him as the SG in the depth chart and be sure to check the SG box as one of his positions played and fill him in at the SG positions in the sub matrix and he'll play all the SG you want :)

[DaddyTorgo]

Just set him as the SG in the depth chart and be sure to check the SG box as one of his positions played and fill him in at the SG positions in the sub matrix and he'll play all the SG you want :)
but there's not a way if you're having the computer set your depth chart to tell it to have him play there, is there? it has to be done manually...

[ScottVib]

but there's not a way if you're having the computer set your depth chart to tell it to have him play there, is there? it has to be done manually...

Just check the SG box in the depth chart screen and the AI will play him there (provided it feels he's a better option then the other players who are checked to be able to play SG).

[DaddyTorgo]

(provided it feels he's a better option then the other players who are checked to be able to play SG).
there's the real issue. what if i want him to play there even if he's not better. maybe because he might get better with development, or because i'm intentionally trying to tank the season or hell, just because I want to, i don't need a good reason. i ought to be able to, i guess without having to go all manuel and get into the sub matrix and all that (which honestly confuses the hell out of me)

[ScottVib]

there's the real issue. what if i want him to play there even if he's not better. maybe because he might get better with development, or because i'm intentionally trying to tank the season or hell, just because I want to, i don't need a good reason. i ought to be able to, i guess without having to go all manuel and get into the sub matrix and all that (which honestly confuses the hell out of me)

Just adjust the depth chart and the AI will change the sub matrix to fit the depth chart you set. Personally, I never go into the sub matrix at all. I change the depth chart and let the sub matrix sort itself out. Drop the other SG's below the guy you want to force PT on in the depth chart.

[Buccaneer]

I wish Gary and GDS tremendous success with this game but for me, I have gotten so hooked on FBCB (despite not even liking college hoops) that I can't tear away from it. I really do like the straight-forward interface and one-more-turn feel of FBCB and would not care for 2D animations, pbp sounds or other whistles. But this looks and sounds like a great game for many text simmers and I'm glad it has been done.

[scooter]

Just set him as the SG in the depth chart and be sure to check the SG box as one of his positions played and fill him in at the SG positions in the sub matrix and he'll play all the SG you want :)

What about for recruiting purposes? If a PG recruit looks at my team and sees that I have 4 guys in front of him, he's probably going to go somewhere else. If the PGs I have are not great ball-handlers and are better outside shooters, I'd like to be able to change them to SG and go recruit a good ball-handling PG (I know I can do this in FBCB, but I was looking to be able to do that in TCB as well).

Now you can see the real root of my original question. I know about the depth chart and the sub matrix, but I'm really most concerned about recruiting right now.

[WSUCougar]

What about for recruiting purposes? If a PG recruit looks at my team and sees that I have 4 guys in front of him, he's probably going to go somewhere else. If the PGs I have are not great ball-handlers and are better outside shooters, I'd like to be able to change them to SG and go recruit a good ball-handling PG (I know I can do this in FBCB, but I was looking to be able to do that in TCB as well).

Now you can see the real root of my original question. I know about the depth chart and the sub matrix, but I'm really most concerned about recruiting right now.
I'm with ya on this Scooter. I'm facing this exact situation with the demo right now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

BTW, for the stats issue with people averaging like 5-7 steals per game - it is a bug that is caused by always attributing the steal in the box score to the point guard when playing a zone defense. Those players really arent getting those outrageous amounts of steals each game - its just that every time one of their teammates got one while playing a zone it was credited to the PG. It will be fixed for the release version.

Good catch on that quirky bug & I'm glad to know that it's being squashed.

In a similar vein, is there something like that going on with some defensive rebounds somewhere? Purely anecdotal, since I haven't made detailed notes about it, but I've noticed numerous times where the pbp text credits a guard with getting a rebound but the rebound total in the running stats for the players on the court doesn't change. It's persistent enough that I'm 100% certain I've seen it happen, but it isn't an all-the-time thing by any means either since I've had SG's get double-digit rebounds on rare occasions & PG's get as many as 5 or 6; i.e. it's not like they're getting no boards ever, it's just that the text & the stat recording doesn't always seem to match up, leading me to wonder if it was something situational like the PG steals issue.

[Gary Gorski]

What about for recruiting purposes? If a PG recruit looks at my team and sees that I have 4 guys in front of him, he's probably going to go somewhere else. If the PGs I have are not great ball-handlers and are better outside shooters, I'd like to be able to change them to SG and go recruit a good ball-handling PG (I know I can do this in FBCB, but I was looking to be able to do that in TCB as well).

Now you can see the real root of my original question. I know about the depth chart and the sub matrix, but I'm really most concerned about recruiting right now.

Recruits don't look by position, they look at the player who occupies the spot they play and consider if they could beat him out and also consider where they would currently fall on the depth chart. You could have your four point guards and the recruit will still consider whether or not he will start at PG based on who plays PG now and not how many PGs there are

[dunkem]

While I think TCB is much deeper in player ratings, recruiting, and playcalling, I think I have to agree so that the recruiting process could be made a little easier and may require too many filters and screens. Perhaps Gary could make a "recruiting summary" page similar to that of FBCB. The summary page could be one that lists all the recruit's ratings, top 5 schools (if known) while also allowing you to select recruiting actions on the very same page. Basically, a less cosmetically appealing page, but more informational packed than the others.

That's the beauty and the speed of FBCB I think in that you can see almost all of what you need on one page as well as select your actions on the same page. In TCB, you have two look at two different pages to see the all the A-F ratings, a page listing the schools being considered, and another screen to choose recruiting actions. With one summary page, I think it'd help with the speed of recruiting. If we want to look at more details like notes, all ten schools (instead of top five), or the national rank of the recruit, we'd be able to go to the existing pages.

Great game so far with much more variables and factors involved in all processes. Those who like to play faster seasons will probably like FBCB more, but I like a lot of the things TCB is bringing to the table.

[DaddyTorgo]

okay, i'm jonesing for this game right now. Had an incredible game as Alabama State last night (prestige 27). Won something like 10 games and managed to recruit two top-100 players by waiting until after the first LOI signing period to go after them. Now I can't wait to see how I can do with an entirely new backcourt!

C'mon Gary!!!http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[dunkem]

Great job on recruiting DaddyTorgo. However, this makes me take a step back in buying TCB if Alabama State with prestige 27 could land two top 100 recruits. Are your recruiting ratings for your coach and assistants really high? I'd be really stoked if I were you too, but if this happens often, I'm going to be disappointed. If lower prestige schools can land even one top 100 recruit each season, recruiting will be too easy and/or there are loopholes in it.

I guess I'll have to do some testing with lower level teams to see how difficult recruiting really is.

[DaddyTorgo]

Great job on recruiting DaddyTorgo. However, this makes me take a step back in buying TCB if Alabama State with prestige 27 could land two top 100 recruits. Are your recruiting ratings for your coach and assistants really high? I'd be really stoked if I were you too, but if this happens often, I'm going to be disappointed. If lower prestige schools can land even one top 100 recruit each season, recruiting will be too easy and/or there are loopholes in it.

I guess I'll have to do some testing with lower level teams to see how difficult recruiting really is.bad news is that my staff are all pretty horrible at recruiting. of course i've already passed the point where i can look and see what the guys final ratings are, but I know that both of them didn't sign with me until the 2nd letter of intent signing period (gave verbals maybe a week, two tops before that).

looking back at a save I had from mid-january (before i changed the name)

PG Paul Judd from Arkansas is ranked 49th overall (17th at his position) and I am his #1 overall choice.

SG Abe Armstrong from Kentucky is ranked 54th overall and 11th at his position (although he did say in his first call that playing close to him is his top concern) and I am his #2 overall choice

maybe it helps that i am a very undisciplined coach at an academically poor school so i'm picking up a bunch of malcontents and idiots? One of the two (just closed the game so i don't remember which) just got an 800 on his SAT's, and the other was a JuCo player. So that could very well have something to do with it...

[WSUCougar]

maybe it helps that i am a very undisciplined coach at an academically poor school so i'm picking up a bunch of malcontents and idiots? One of the two (just closed the game so i don't remember which) just got an 800 on his SAT's, and the other was a JuCo player. So that could very well have something to do with it...
This definitely plays a part in it.

[dunkem]

Maybe their their middle names are Artest and Sprewell and want to cause havoc in Alabama State. One of em's gonna start the fight in the stands and the other one's gonna hit the coaches.

*groan* Poor recruiting ratings, bad prestige, top 100 recruits. This will definitely have to be tweaked to pull me away from FBCB now. FBCB's recruiting could be improved too, but at least I knew I couldn't land top 100 recruits with a 27 prestige school. Top 200 maybe but not the 49th and 54th best players in the nation.

Hopefully it's a fluke.. but at least your Alabama State's gonna be the cinderella team of the TCB tournament.

[DaddyTorgo]

hopefully Gary can weigh in on this and let us know that it's not something that needs to be tweaked but it's some combination of southeastern recruits who receive little attention from big schools choosing to stay close to home and play for a coach who lets the players run wild at a school where they won't have to attend classes. I did wait until after the first LOI signing period, so maybe there was not a lot of attention given to them.

This does have me a bit worried though, if I was to send the file to you Gary is there a way you could open it up and check out what exactly went on with them from a recruiting standpoint, like what their choices are and why they picked me? To reassure the masses...

and hopefully they underperform on the court due to their stupidity and the scouting error from my scouts?

[ScottVib]

They signed with you almost certainly because of the academics. The 800 SAT guy probably had 0 interest from any other school, as any school with a C or higher academic rating (which most of the "majors" have) could not get him in, so they don't waste their time. For example: as I'm CCSU I can't get anyone into Central without at least a 880 SAT and I only have a C for academics.

The other thing with the 800 SAT guy, is he's almost certainly a candidate to be academically ineligible almost his entire collegiate career, so he's far from a sure thing (sorry to be a bit of a downer).

[DaddyTorgo]

that's fine. as long as there's a logical reason for it. as for being a downer...i don't look at it that way. we'll see.

[CraigSca]

You could be the UNLV of the east, DaddyTogo!

[MizzouRah]

After reading your post Scott, I'm really wanting this game. I'm still going to hold out until I have more time with BBCF, but I've been reading a lot of good talk about this game. Heck, I would have bought it on the merrits of TPB 2005 alone anyhow.

College basketball is fun from a recruiting standpoint because there's a lot less players than in football... makes me really get into my recruits.

[Gary Gorski]

hopefully Gary can weigh in on this and let us know that it's not something that needs to be tweaked but it's some combination of southeastern recruits who receive little attention from big schools choosing to stay close to home and play for a coach who lets the players run wild at a school where they won't have to attend classes. I did wait until after the first LOI signing period, so maybe there was not a lot of attention given to them.

Yes, you got players nobody wanted. The guy who scored an 800 on his SAT did not qualify to play at any school other than the poorest academic ones which Alabama State falls into in the ratings. You will be extremely lucky if he plays more than one semester in his career. The JuCo is probably another kid none of the big schools in the area wanted to deal with (especially just for two years).

If you want to send me the save file I'd be happy to sim ahead and report the results. I highly suspect that when its all said and done Alabama State isn't going to be a national powerhouse :)

[Gary Gorski]

dola

academic ratings of the school also factor into the chances of becoming ineligible - so a kid who gets bad grades will want to go to an easier school because he will have less chance of his GPA going down - however even the worst schools in academics aren't low enough to save some of the recruits.

Also when kids are suspended for grades and realize they can't handle the academics at the school they will transfer to a lower academic school so many times the AI won't even bother with those guys in the first place

[DaddyTorgo]

You could be the UNLV of the east, DaddyTogo!oh damm. I miss the UNLV of the late 80's / early 90's with Tarkanian and Larry Johnson.

Hell there could be a lot worse things than being the UNLV of the East.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

no need to sim ahead for me like that Gary. I'm just pleased to see there's logic to it that holds up.

I don't mind taking a flyer, it's not like these guys can sink this program, it's already fairly well sunk.

besides, I'd much rather you didn't waste that time simming ahead in my game and instead got the full version out soon so I can pay you sir! http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/wink.gif

[DaddyTorgo]

double dola

don't know if anyone cares, but i found this interesting "where are they now" piece on those early-90's UNLV teams

hxxp://www.casinomagazine.com/managearticle.asp?c=400&a=306

[Gary Gorski]

Well to be honest DT if you wouldnt mind I would like to see the files (I need the .tcb file and the corresponding folder all zipped of course). I can sim a year in just a couple of minutes plus it would give me a chance to make sure the demo saves will work with the retail version.

And don't worry, you won't have to wait much longer at all to pay me. I don't want to delay that process either :)

[DaddyTorgo]

Well to be honest DT if you wouldnt mind I would like to see the files (I need the .tcb file and the corresponding folder all zipped of course). I can sim a year in just a couple of minutes plus it would give me a chance to make sure the demo saves will work with the retail version.

And don't worry, you won't have to wait much longer at all to pay me. I don't want to delay that process either :)
sent Gary. but gmail was being wonky so if you don't get it quick let me know (if you're still up) and i'll run up and do it on a real mail account

[Gary Gorski]

sent Gary. but gmail was being wonky so if you don't get it quick let me know (if you're still up) and i'll run up and do it on a real mail account

Got it and loading it up - should have some results pretty soon (so long as theres no unexpected issues using a demo file on my version)

[DaddyTorgo]

Got it and loading it up - should have some results pretty soon (so long as theres no unexpected issues using a demo file on my version)that's fine. like i said, i'm not asking you to do this, i'm satisfied with the answer that you gave that there is a logical reason why i was able to land these two recruits, and i honestly just wanted to fiddle with a demo as a low-prestige team to see what the experience was like. i have no attachement to making Alabama State a powerhouse.


but here's hoping it runs fine on your machine and you don't discover any problems that require correcting so that we can get this baby in our hands soon.

[Gary Gorski]

ok, the results are in. Alabama State put together an impressive year going 13-5 in the conference and 23-8 overall winning the conference tournament good enough for a 13 seed in the big dance where they got waxed by 4th seed Temple 75-48.

On an individual level Judd averaged 7.9 PPG and 4.0 APG starting every game (although only scored 1 point in the NCAA tournament game). He also averaged almost 3 and a half turnovers per game running the point.

Armstrong (the JuCo) was solid scoring 14.7 per game with nothing really else of much note.

Both are carrying 2.2 GPAs (and two other players were suspended for academics during the season with a 1.9 and 1.6) and there are five additional players at 2.2 or below - a total of 9 players who are or are close to being academically ineligible so this situation could get very ugly in the future.

Why I think Alabama State got these guys. Academics is obviously the big reason but there's a few others. I don't think Judd is going to be much to shout about. He had a decent frosh campaign playing for one of the better prestige and talent teams in a weak conference but who knows how long he's going to stay eligible.

Armstrong is a solid scorer but a headcase as expected. His personality leans towards the disruptive end of the scale so had things gone badly during the season he could have been a real headache to deal with - couple that with the fact he's a JuCo so he only has two years to play anyways and I can understand why bigger schools stayed away.

Basically it was what IMO it should have been. A roll of the dice that is certainly worth taking at an Alabama State but probably not something you're going to risk a scholarship or more important the happiness of the rest of the team over if you're a bigger school.

[DaddyTorgo]

works for me. hell of a lot better than the first year I put together where I was sub-.500. Glad to hear that the logic stands up then in the recruiting and demo saves work in the full version.

so now that that is known...we can expect the full version when...in a couple hours? http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/wink.gif

so in conclusion guys: recruiting works fine in instances like this. nothing to freak about.

[Gary Gorski]

nope - cause I want to see what happens in the next season :)

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah okay. go have fun with my savegame Gary. Don't worry about getting us all a playable retail version so we can put food on your table and buy diapers for the lil Gorski!

haha. i can't wait to get my hands on this! which is saying something, cuz basketball is my least favorite sport. but this game certainly makes me forget that

[jbmagic]

yeah okay. go have fun with my savegame Gary. Don't worry about getting us all a playable retail version so we can put food on your table and buy diapers for the lil Gorski!

haha. i can't wait to get my hands on this! which is saying something, cuz basketball is my least favorite sport. but this game certainly makes me forget that


Total Pro Basketball is very solid too. i cant wait for Total College Basketball too.