Legal Question (music downloading)

[Easy Mac]

If I were to post about a way to download infinite free music from sony connect, would that be bannable, and would that be illegal? It's a perfectly legitimate loophole in their system they haven't bothered to close yet.

[MJ4H]

PMs would be ok with me :)

[Dekanth]

Pm's is the safest way to go. (hint, hint)

[Tasan]

This would be interesting to know.

[JeeberD]

*cough*

[Easy Mac]

The short, legal version
6 free songs from sony connect (no credit card needed for sign-up or purchasing songs, just an email account that is linked to your computer for as long as it is authorized for that account)

PLAYMUSIC (1 free song)
ANSWER9 (5 free songs, says from Allen Iverson's playlist, but works for any 5 songs)


From there, I think people may figure out how to get unlimited free music, if you just read the various Itunes threads about format conversion (since Sony's is copy-protected) and if you follow the hints from earlier in this post.

[DaddyTorgo]

paging: JiMG

[JonInMiddleGA]

paging: JiMG

Absent the details (and absent whatever user agreement fine print goes with d'loading anything from Sony Connect), my first thought was basically that this sounds like knowing that somebody left the back door of a store unlocked. Would you feel like its okay to just go take whatever you wanted from, say, Macy's?

[Easy Mac]

I liken it to them giving out gift cards every time you enter the store, but all you do is leave, change your shirt, and they give you another one when you come back.

[Draft Dodger]

Absent the details (and absent whatever user agreement fine print goes with d'loading anything from Sony Connect), my first thought was basically that this sounds like knowing that somebody left the back door of a store unlocked. Would you feel like its okay to just go take whatever you wanted from, say, Macy's?

I certainly wouldn't have a problem going into an unlocked door and cloning something from Macy's, leaving behind everything in the store for them to sell to other patrons the next day. Which, of course, is what we are talking about here.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I certainly wouldn't have a problem going into an unlocked door and cloning something from Macy's, leaving behind everything in the store for them to sell to other patrons the next day. Which, of course, is what we are talking about here.

Except, of course, that you have no right to the object to perform said cloning.

Said it before & I'll say it again -- what you just said is that "you wouldn't have a problem" with being a damned thief. And I'm not sure whether that more sad or more disturbing, but hey, at least it ain't exactly a shock either.

[Draft Dodger]

Except, of course, that you have no right to the object to perform said cloning.

Said it before & I'll say it again -- what you just said is that "you wouldn't have a problem" with being a damned thief. And I'm not sure whether that more sad or more disturbing, but hey, at least it ain't exactly a shock either.

just doing it to rile you up, big guy. I don't live in the world of shaky metaphors.

[Solecismic]

There's a very simple way to download games for free using the RealArcade. Reading about it, just a monumental screwup in how they handle copy protection. Anyone can rip a game in about ten seconds.

Does that make it right? No one is "hurt" by this. You don't have to go to any shady web sites and download cracks, everything you do is on your computer with their download.

I would argue that this is still stealing. Developers (of music and software) make money off of selling their intellectual property. Just because our products are less physically tangible doesn't make them any less valuable. It's stealing just as much as sneaking into a nearly-empty theater to see a movie is stealing.

In this case, the format conversion seems like the step that causes me concern. Not an offer we'll be trying.

[Draft Dodger]

I would argue that this is still stealing. Developers (of music and software) make money off of selling their intellectual property. Just because our products are less physically tangible doesn't make them any less valuable. It's stealing just as much as sneaking into a nearly-empty theater to see a movie is stealing.


out of curiosity, even though I'm about to log off for the night, taking the movie theater thing a bit further - where does sneaking your own food into the theater fit into this? you wouldn't have bought their milk duds anyway...AND they still have their milk duds to sell to someone else. stealing?

really just looking to spark intelligent and thoughtful debate on this. have a strange feeling that's not going to happen here.

[Solecismic]

out of curiosity, even though I'm about to log off for the night, taking the movie theater thing a bit further - where does sneaking your own food into the theater fit into this? you wouldn't have bought their milk duds anyway...AND they still have their milk duds to sell to someone else. stealing?

really just looking to spark intelligent and thoughtful debate on this. have a strange feeling that's not going to happen here.

No kidding. How could you ask such a question?

Since it's a physical product, I don't see anything wrong with taking your own food in. However, one of the reasons I have not been to a movie theater in about 15 years is that theater personnel do nothing to keep people quiet, whether it's idiots who won't stop yammering or clods who rattle candy wrappers incessantly.

[Mota]

out of curiosity, even though I'm about to log off for the night, taking the movie theater thing a bit further - where does sneaking your own food into the theater fit into this? you wouldn't have bought their milk duds anyway...AND they still have their milk duds to sell to someone else. stealing?

really just looking to spark intelligent and thoughtful debate on this. have a strange feeling that's not going to happen here.

I would consider this just as bad as "cloning" something from Macy's, as referred above.

From what I've heard in the past (and I'm not entirely sure it's accurate since I don't work in the industry), movie theaters pay almost the entire movie ticket price to the movie companies. They use the concession revenue as their own profit.

So while you didn't jump over the counter and steal a bag of popcorn, you made your visit to the theater entirely unprofitable for the theater. Might as well sneak into an empty theater and catch an extra movie while you're at it, ya thieves! ;)

[Easy Mac]

So if a store continually allowed you to enter and gave you a coupon for a free bag og candy (about the price of a song) everytime you entered, would that be stealing?

[Mota]

So if a store continually allowed you to enter and gave you a coupon for a free bag og candy (about the price of a song) everytime you entered, would that be stealing?

Or if a kid comes trick or treating to your house twice on Hallowe'en, is that illegal?

[samifan24]

Ok so the six songs mentioned above are the "free" coupons. I don't care about the unlimited but if they're giving 6 songs away to everyone I'll take them. Has anyone tried the conversion to iTunes? Does the quality suffer?

[Solecismic]

I would consider this just as bad as "cloning" something from Macy's, as referred above.

From what I've heard in the past (and I'm not entirely sure it's accurate since I don't work in the industry), movie theaters pay almost the entire movie ticket price to the movie companies. They use the concession revenue as their own profit.

So while you didn't jump over the counter and steal a bag of popcorn, you made your visit to the theater entirely unprofitable for the theater. Might as well sneak into an empty theater and catch an extra movie while you're at it, ya thieves! ;)

I'm not responsible for their bad business model, though.

What if my own brand of popcorn has more value to me than the theater's? Since they allow people to smack and crunch popcorn in the theater, they should allow me to bring my own.

If I own the popcorn legally, and it has the same or more value to me than movie popcorn, then there's nothing wrong with sneaking food in.

Charging excessive prices for food and drink is their right - and there's nothing wrong with not letting people in and out of the building to shop elsewhere during the movie. But people are paying for the convenience.

Same goes for ballparks. If I'd rather eat my healthy sandwich than their fatty hot dogs, that should be my perogative. Unless there's a compelling reason, like not allowing people to bring bottles of beer or soda because there are too many idiots who would throw them.

However, I am aware that the courts have found that ballparks do have the right to set up this sort of business model. They risk offending people to the point where they will stay away altogether by searching them for contraband food.

In the same vein, many fine restaurants charge a decanting fee if you bring your own wine.

[bob]

Same goes for ballparks. If I'd rather eat my healthy sandwich than their fatty hot dogs, that should be my perogative.

Go to a braves game - you can take food and drink in all you want. Just no beer/alcohol. Or glass bottles.

[larrymcg421]

The point is you're sneaking the food into the theater. They have the right to determine the terms with which you can enter their facility, as long as their is nothing prejudicial about the way they do it. If they say no outside food is allowed, and you bring in outside food, then yes I do consider that stealing.

[Deattribution]

The point is you're sneaking the food into the theater. They have the right to determine the terms with which you can enter their facility, as long as their is nothing prejudicial about the way they do it. If they say no outside food is allowed, and you bring in outside food, then yes I do consider that stealing.

What are you stealing?

I wouldn't consider it stealing, I'd just consider it unethical to not abide by the theatres rules.

[clintl]

The short, legal version
6 free songs from sony connect (no credit card needed for sign-up or purchasing songs, just an email account that is linked to your computer for as long as it is authorized for that account)

PLAYMUSIC (1 free song)
ANSWER9 (5 free songs, says from Allen Iverson's playlist, but works for any 5 songs)


From there, I think people may figure out how to get unlimited free music, if you just read the various Itunes threads about format conversion (since Sony's is copy-protected) and if you follow the hints from earlier in this post.

My view - if Sony is going to hand out freebies, controlling the distribution of the freebies is Sony's problem. It's not at all like leaving the back door of the store unlocked. It's more like leaving a stack of coupons for free samples on a rack outside the front door.

[DanGarion]

I'm not responsible for their bad business model, though.

What if my own brand of popcorn has more value to me than the theater's? Since they allow people to smack and crunch popcorn in the theater, they should allow me to bring my own.

If I own the popcorn legally, and it has the same or more value to me than movie popcorn, then there's nothing wrong with sneaking food in.



So you believe someone should be allowed to use their own format of something within a closed system?

[sterlingice]

I'm not responsible for their bad business model, though.

What if my own brand of popcorn has more value to me than the theater's? Since they allow people to smack and crunch popcorn in the theater, they should allow me to bring my own.

If I own the popcorn legally, and it has the same or more value to me than movie popcorn, then there's nothing wrong with sneaking food in.

Charging excessive prices for food and drink is their right - and there's nothing wrong with not letting people in and out of the building to shop elsewhere during the movie. But people are paying for the convenience.

Same goes for ballparks. If I'd rather eat my healthy sandwich than their fatty hot dogs, that should be my perogative. Unless there's a compelling reason, like not allowing people to bring bottles of beer or soda because there are too many idiots who would throw them.

However, I am aware that the courts have found that ballparks do have the right to set up this sort of business model. They risk offending people to the point where they will stay away altogether by searching them for contraband food.

In the same vein, many fine restaurants charge a decanting fee if you bring your own wine.Just to play devil's advocate, one could that movie theaters, ballparks, etc own the whole entertainment experience- that's what your ticket buys you. Thus, they can control any factor (i.e. what you can and can't bring in) as long as they don't make you do something illegal (i.e. PA Announcement: "Now that you're here, you will make slave labor wallets for 4 years before we let you leave"). Basically, you assume the responsibility of allowing them to provide you with their food and drink and services at their prices. Following that line of reasoning, if you think they're unfair, you don't have the right to sneak in food or drinks, you have the right to not go to the theater or find one who allows you to bring in your own food and drinks. But it doesn't mean you can break their rules if you don't like them, otherwise, you can be barred from the theater.

SI

[oliegirl]

They must have found/fixed the bug...I tried entering "playlist" and was told it was an invalid code. I entered "answer9" once and got 5 credits, but when I tried to enter it again, I got a message that that number of times the code could be used was limited. Still - 5 free songs :)

[Easy Mac]

not broken, its just not as simple as entering the same code twice. You'd think a family with two accounts in cyberspace could figure out a way around it. Unfortunately, I'm not authorized to say the exact way.

(read between the lines grasshopper)

72 songs and counting.

[Solecismic]

Just to play devil's advocate, one could that movie theaters, ballparks, etc own the whole entertainment experience- that's what your ticket buys you. Thus, they can control any factor (i.e. what you can and can't bring in) as long as they don't make you do something illegal (i.e. PA Announcement: "Now that you're here, you will make slave labor wallets for 4 years before we let you leave"). Basically, you assume the responsibility of allowing them to provide you with their food and drink and services at their prices. Following that line of reasoning, if you think they're unfair, you don't have the right to sneak in food or drinks, you have the right to not go to the theater or find one who allows you to bring in your own food and drinks. But it doesn't mean you can break their rules if you don't like them, otherwise, you can be barred from the theater.

SI

True. That is their legal right. To be honest, I hadn't thought of this from the perspective that they make significant revenue off of candy sales. I always thought they made their money from the hot popcorn, which isn't practical to bring in on your own. So, while it isn't stealing to bring in your own food, your logic does hold.

That doesn't mean the Alamo Bowl referees have the right to change the rules of college football, however.