Michigan - Nebraska Ending

[Celeval]

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/eek.gif

WTF was that?

[kingfc22]

Officiating was a JOKE tonight.


Hats off to Nebraska for a solid defensive effort in the 4th quarter.

[timmynausea]

That was pretty crazy.

[cthomer5000]

How much money did the refs have on Nebraksa? Some extremely suspect late-game officiating. And apparently having 40+ guys covering half the field doesn't warrant a "too many men on the field" penalty.

[Blade6119]

Horrible officiating, but both teams went on the field....wow...Good job by the 2 nebraska players to notice it was still going and save that

[vex]

wow.

[Honolulu_Blue]

He should have pitched it back to Breaston. He might of scored.

While the Nebraska defense and yet another 4th quarter collapse by Michigan were the main reason for the result this game has got to go down as the:

WORST. OFFICIATED. GAME. EVER.

[cthomer5000]

Am i correct in saying that even if that was called off-setting penalites on the last play, Michigan gets another play... right? (game can't end on defensive penalty)

[Solecismic]

A fitting end to the worst officiated game I think I've ever seen in my life. I can't even count the mistakes they made on Nebraska's behalf.

And Herbstreit, geez. Why didn't he just go down on the field, unzip Callahan's pants and go to work right then and there?

Just a fitting end to Michigan's worst season in my lifetime.

[biological warrior]

After 8 years we sort of have an answer to who was the 97 champs. Agreed totally how many times did UM have to call a t.o. to get some calls reviewed.

[ISiddiqui]

How in the freaking world do the refs just jog off the field after blowing the final whistle? Who in the Hell were these guys? Some Pop Warner refs?

[dacman]

A friend of mine's dad is on the Alamo Bowl committee. Can't wait to hear what he has to say. They were not happy AT ALL about being stuck with a Sun Belt crew for this game and his worst fears were clearly realized.

[Celeval]

I dunno... I think if that went in for the touchdown, there wouldn't have been offsetting or anything else called. Bad call by #89 to try and bring it in himself... he had three guys there with him and only two (one?) Nebraska defender left. One more pitch would have won it.

[AZSpeechCoach]

I am still in shock. Is it really the collegiate system that you have to burn a timeout in order to get a review? Even if it is overturned? I call BS.

[cthomer5000]

How in the freaking world do the refs just jog off the field after blowing the final whistle? Who in the Hell were these guys? Some Pop Warner refs?
This is what is most mind-blowing to me. How can every member of the crew leave the field without throwing a flag? There were like 40 cornhuskers on the field, a few wolverines stepped on then back off, and there was like 20 miscellaneous guys on the field.

[biological warrior]

I am still in shock. Is it really the collegiate system that you have to burn a timeout in order to get a review? Even if it is overturned? I call BS. I call BS too. remember UM v. ND earlier in the year? There was a review on EVERY play. Just peopel on the booth not doing their jobs. The college system need to change to NFL replay system, which I feel is superior.

[biological warrior]

This is what is most mind-blowing to me. How can every member of the crew leave the field without throwing a flag? There were like 40 cornhuskers on the field, a few wolverines stepped on then back off, and there was like 20 miscellaneous guys on the field. They wanted to fly back to Vegas AND cash in those vouchers.http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Celeval]

Something to consider... if this was a Sun Belt crew; I'm pretty sure the Sun Belt didn't HAVE replay during the season. So this would conceivably be brand new to the officials.

[cthomer5000]

I guess the refs see no problem with this scene (yes, this is a play in-progress):

http://somethingwithanh.com/jokes/no_flags_needed.jpg

[Solecismic]

I dunno... I think if that went in for the touchdown, there wouldn't have been offsetting or anything else called. Bad call by #89 to try and bring it in himself... he had three guys there with him and only two (one?) Nebraska defender left. One more pitch would have won it.

It wouldn't have felt right, though. You're probably right that they would have let the play stand, being incompetent idiots. But there were Michigan people all over the field down there, and Breaston would have used them as picks, had Ecker pitched it back to him.

The one that really frosts me the most (out of many, like how does a ball travel 15 yards forward if it's not batted and it's not thrown) was the missed pass interference call at the goal line with two minutes to play. That was about as blatant an arm grab as you'll ever see, and right in front of the official.

Then, while they're setting up for the punt, the stupid refs sit around for 10 seconds discussing the weather before starting the 25-second clock.

[st.cronin]

I think the replay rules vary by conference - I don't think there's a unified rule. I have no idea what the rules would be for a bowl game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I guess the refs see no problem with this scene (yes, this is a play in-progress):

http://somethingwithanh.com/jokes/no_flags_needed.jpg


Between that picture (I didn't see the play live or on tape yet) and the off-field controversy with the SmurfTurf Bowl, I believe I have today been swung into the camp of "okay, there's too damn many bowl games".

[Huckleberry]

I think the replay rules vary by conference - I don't think there's a unified rule. I have no idea what the rules would be for a bowl game.
The bowls all are using the Big Ten replay system.

The Sun Belt did not have replay. This was this particular crew's first ever experience with a replay system.

I find it odd that a Sun Belt crew did this game. Were there really no available SEC, ACC, Pac-10 crews? Hell, Conference USA and the WAC both have teams in Texas and are "more bigtime" conferences than the Sun Belt.

[cthomer5000]

And that picture doesn't come close to showing how ridiculous it was. Sportscenter chose not to show the rear angle shot which showed about 40 Cornhuskers occupying the entire left side of the field while the play was only about 1/2 way done. No flag on the play is just completely ridiculous.

[Solecismic]

You know the funny thing about that picture? I count three officials in view, all in pretty good position to make a play call.

[Huckleberry]

And that picture doesn't come close to showing how ridiculous it was. Sportscenter chose not to show the rear angle shot which showed about 40 Cornhuskers occupying the entire left side of the field while the play was only about 1/2 way done. No flag on the play is just completely ridiculous.
Mostly agreed.

The problem is that 40 is a major understatement. Hart was forced to move to the right after recovering the ball because Nebraska was basically defending the left half of the field with the rest of their players and coaches.

As it turns out, it may have forced a call by those incompetent refs if he had run left and run into one of the illegal men on the field.

[st.cronin]

I want to congratulate myself on putting a 50 on Nebraska +12.5 ... easiest money i made all year.

[astrosfan64]

It wouldn't have felt right, though. You're probably right that they would have let the play stand, being incompetent idiots. But there were Michigan people all over the field down there, and Breaston would have used them as picks, had Ecker pitched it back to him.

The one that really frosts me the most (out of many, like how does a ball travel 15 yards forward if it's not batted and it's not thrown) was the missed pass interference call at the goal line with two minutes to play. That was about as blatant an arm grab as you'll ever see, and right in front of the official.

Then, while they're setting up for the punt, the stupid refs sit around for 10 seconds discussing the weather before starting the 25-second clock.

Agreed on the PI, not agreed on the fumble. I thought that was a fumble. If you noticed the Michigan QB just walked off the field. Let me add if they would of called that an Incomplete Pass I would of been OK with that call.

[MylesKnight]

I guess the refs see no problem with this scene (yes, this is a play in-progress):

http://somethingwithanh.com/jokes/no_flags_needed.jpg




LMAO!!! That is such a funny damn picture CT.

[Solecismic]

And that picture doesn't come close to showing how ridiculous it was. Sportscenter chose not to show the rear angle shot which showed about 40 Cornhuskers occupying the entire left side of the field while the play was only about 1/2 way done. No flag on the play is just completely ridiculous.

ESPN has some serious Nebraska ties, at least in the studio.

I still have never forgiven ESPN for that moment, in January of 1998, when at about 3 in the morning Pacific time, they announced that the coaches poll had flipped, giving Nebraska a share of the National Championship.

There was absolute pandemonium going on in that studio. You could hear yelling and screaming, the announcers were clearly delighted.

Since ESPN sponsored that poll and the votes are kept secret, I've always wondered if the crew on that morning rigged the votes. Michigan held a large lead in the vote until then primarily because of the illegal kick-play that wasn't called that got Nebraska that win over Missouri earlier that season.

Of course, that was the situation that provided the final impetus for the BCS, which only works well in situations like that (and this year's) where there's a clear #1-2.

[SirFozzie]

Between that picture (I didn't see the play live or on tape yet) and the off-field controversy with the SmurfTurf Bowl, I believe I have today been swung into the camp of "okay, there's too damn many bowl games".

which one, the one of the Boise State folks turning it into a heckle the Eagles session? Or the Eagles play by play guy allegedly calling the bowl game the MPC Empty Seat Bowl Game? :D

yeah, I think BC made their displeasure with being a 3rd place team and going to a 7th place bowl game pretty obvious, didn't they?

[MylesKnight]

Any chance of a game ending scene like this in the second edition of TCY?

[Solecismic]

Any chance of a game ending scene like this in the second edition of TCY?

No, I've never much liked gimmicks in any of my games. That sort of thing only works well if it's sufficiently rare and varied.

I will, however, consider cracks about Sun Belt officials fair game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

which one, the one of the Boise State folks turning it into a heckle the Eagles session?

That part was what I was talking about, I hadn't seen anything about the other (until searching for more after you mentioned it)

from Boston.com
And while BC (8-3) has been designated the ''home" team and will wear its maroon jerseys, the Eagles are not likely to enjoy anything in the way of a home-field advantage. That will belong to Boise State (9-3), which will look to extend a 31-game winning streak on the famed blue turf of its 30,000-seat Bronco Stadium, where the Eagles noticed nary a BC logo on the field.

That was the first perceived slight.

Another came Monday night during a bowl function, the Beyond the Game Dinner, where BC's entourage was limited to a certain number of guests. Meanwhile, it seemed like come one, come all for Boise State.

''That's when it was apparent to me this was not just another bowl game," said senior defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka. ''We were playing a road game."

BC was subjected to yet another slight during the banquet when speakers at the podium turned the function into an impromptu Boise State pep rally by concluding their remarks with, ''Go Broncos!"

Mike Atkins, chief executive officer of MPC Computers, even took a shot at ''the arrogant Boston media," and called out BC radio play-by-play man Jon Meterparel for alleging referring to the game as ''The Empty-Seat Computers Bowl" -- which Meterparel denies.

I'm sorry, but somewhere amidst all of that crap, it dawns on me that there's simply too many bowls when a backwater like Boise freakin' Idaho is hosting a game, when the title sponsor doesn't have enough sense to STFU (gee, bet they won over a whole bunch of consumers in Boston with his remarks), and yeah, if they're playing a bowl game on a field that looks like something from the Backyard Football location options.

You know me, I'm about as Southern as they come & that makes me pretty unlikely to spend much time defending Baaaaston College (hell, I still don't like having 'em in the conference frankly) but the ACC needs to cut this turkey loose. Going to that game isn't a reward, it's freakin' punishment.

[SirFozzie]

Apparently they also made fun of Kiwanuka's name.. and if there's one thing that Mathias takes personally.. it's his family.. (his grandfather was the first PM of Uganda, and was assassinated by Idi Amin)..

I don't think BC will be back ;)

[SirFozzie]

and speaking of too many bowls..

Now that the NCAA has allowed all teams a 12th game.. you should need 7 wins, with a MAXIMUM of 1 win against 1-AA opposition counting towards that 7 win mark. (in some cases, local rivalry, sure.. it means you'd still need to go 6-5 vs 1-A opposition)/

56 of 117 1-A teams are playing in bowl games this year. That's too many.

[Huckleberry]

ESPN has some serious Nebraska ties, at least in the studio.

I still have never forgiven ESPN for that moment, in January of 1998, when at about 3 in the morning Pacific time, they announced that the coaches poll had flipped, giving Nebraska a share of the National Championship.

There was absolute pandemonium going on in that studio. You could hear yelling and screaming, the announcers were clearly delighted.

Since ESPN sponsored that poll and the votes are kept secret, I've always wondered if the crew on that morning rigged the votes. Michigan held a large lead in the vote until then primarily because of the illegal kick-play that wasn't called that got Nebraska that win over Missouri earlier that season.

Of course, that was the situation that provided the final impetus for the BCS, which only works well in situations like that (and this year's) where there's a clear #1-2.
There's some crazy talk in there, Jim. I would recommend going to bed and sleeping it off. :D

[Solecismic]

There's some crazy talk in there, Jim. I would recommend going to bed and sleeping it off. :D

Sure, it sounds bad. But the scene that morning was surreal. If you had seen it, you might agree. They were actually celebrating on the set.

[Huckleberry]

Some of them may have been Nebraska fans, others may have simply been celebrating the fact that the poll switch gave them another week of stories without having to actually investigate or report anything.

[Dr. Sak]

I guess this makes up for the extra 2 seconds they got in another game???

[MylesKnight]

I dunno... I think if that went in for the touchdown, there wouldn't have been offsetting or anything else called. Bad call by #89 to try and bring it in himself... he had three guys there with him and only two (one?) Nebraska defender left. One more pitch would have won it.

TRUE! Don't any of these guys ever stay up late at night in their dorm rooms/apartments and watch Rugby on FSC?

[biological warrior]

and speaking of too many bowls..

Now that the NCAA has allowed all teams a 12th game.. you should need 7 wins, with a MAXIMUM of 1 win against 1-AA opposition counting towards that 7 win mark. (in some cases, local rivalry, sure.. it means you'd still need to go 6-5 vs 1-A opposition)/

56 of 117 1-A teams are playing in bowl games this year. That's too many. 28 bowl games?!!!!!!?http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/eek.gif Yes that does seem like too many. Soon all teams will be plaaying in a bowl game regardless of record. I think bowls (mainly smaller ones) should be at large bids. Making sure that teams rotate into different bowls each year.In other words NO Conference ties to bowls, instead make criterias based on strength of schedule and quality wins and plug those into a computer of sorts to determine who goes where.

[JonInMiddleGA]

In other words NO Conference ties to bowls, instead make criterias based on strength of schedule and quality wins and plug those into a computer of sorts to determine who goes where.

And I go just the opposite ... leave the conference ties for at least one slot to most games but reduce the number of bowls, ensuring pretty good teams for those that remain & giving bowls at least a chance to draw some sort of crowd.

[cthomer5000]

If people want to put up money for these bowl games (and they obviously do), I say let them play. It's all about money anyway.

[biological warrior]

And I go just the opposite ... leave the conference ties for at least one slot to most games but reduce the number of bowls, ensuring pretty good teams for those that remain & giving bowls at least a chance to draw some sort of crowd. Your plan makes too much sense though.http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/biggrin.gif You have a good plan and might I include at least an 8-3 or 8-4 record to be eligible for a bowl game, I'd also love to see an ACC or SEC team play in the LV Bowl once in a while instead of the usual PAC-10 v. MWC/WAC.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If people want to put up money for these bowl games (and they obviously do), I say let them play. It's all about money anyway.

And that's pretty much where I've come down until today ... but things seem to have now gone from "ridiculous ... but it's their money" to "this has gotten absurd & it's time to rein it in".

[Solecismic]

I guess this makes up for the extra 2 seconds they got in another game???

A lot has been written about that one. To summarize:

With 28 seconds to play, Carr called a time out. He started ranting and raving on the sideline (as we saw him do quite a bit tonight). He convinced the officials to set the clock to 30 seconds, when he claimed he first asked for the time out.

As is incessantly played on the highlight films of this season, with one second remaining, Henne found Manningham open in the end zone with the touchdown that separates Penn State from a nice controversy as to who should be playing in the Rose Bowl next week.

The difference here is that we don't know how the final 28 seconds would have unfolded. It wasn't clear when Carr asked for a time out, there wasn't a camera focused on him. But it's likely that the three plays before the final play would have been called differently had there been less time on the clock, starting back when Michigan had a 1st-and-10 on the 16 with about 10-12 seconds to play.

We also don't know that Michigan could have scored tonight with a first-and-goal with two minutes to play. They still needed a touchdown, though at least they could have both run and passed. But this was a very different type of situation.

[Solecismic]

If people want to put up money for these bowl games (and they obviously do), I say let them play. It's all about money anyway.

As long as the corporate sponsors feel they're getting their money's worth from the publicity, I'm fine with it. Just don't ask me to watch 6-5 Memphis play 7-5 Akron.

Remember, the NCAA can not do much to stop these bowl games. As long as bowls are allowed and corporations put up the required seed money, they are forced to allow teams to play.

Now, the NCAA could change eligibility rules. But to do so might not have the effect they're looking for. For instance, they could say you need 7 wins to compete in a bowl. That would reduce the number of bowls, but it would affect the big conferences more than the little ones.

Or they could up the minimum payout to $2 million (it is $750k right now). That would eliminate all of the bowl ties for the minor conferences, and we'd have a situation where 10-1 TCU stays home while 7-4 Michigan plays with Sun Belt officials. It's not a good idea to come up with solutions that reduce the opportunity for good minor-conference teams to play big bowl games.

[Draft Dodger]

If people want to put up money for these bowl games (and they obviously do), I say let them play. It's all about money anyway.

ditto the fact that people watch them.

[saldana]

this is from the article about the game on ESPN. com

"The game ended on a bizarre play, with Michigan's Chad Henne throwing a short pass and his teammates lateraling no fewer than five times up and down the field before the play fizzled out with many extra players and coaches on the field."

going along with the ESPN loves nebraska theme, i enjoy that they dont mention that almost every single one of the extra players, and the only ones that actually had an impact on the play, were from nebraska.

[biological warrior]

Would have paid anything to see the look on Callahan's face if that play went all the way. With Gatorade and, all.

[ISiddiqui]

It would have been better than Cal-Stanford... :D

[A-Husker-4-Life]

OHHHHH YEAH, Big win for the Huskers.... 1st time we beat them since 1962.... Go Huskers...

[ice4277]

Just wanted to echo the fact that that was the worst officiating that I have ever seen in a college football game. Even worse than the officials for the Motor City Bowl on Monday. Where are they getting these f-ing refs from???

[henry296]

this is from the article about the game on ESPN. com

"The game ended on a bizarre play, with Michigan's Chad Henne throwing a short pass and his teammates lateraling no fewer than five times up and down the field before the play fizzled out with many extra players and coaches on the field."

going along with the ESPN loves nebraska theme, i enjoy that they dont mention that almost every single one of the extra players, and the only ones that actually had an impact on the play, were from nebraska.

That article was not written by ESPN. That is the AP article that probably appears in your morning paper as well as ESPN.com, CBS.sportsline and many other news outlets.

[cougarfreak]

Michigan sucks. Nebraska just sucked a little less tonight.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Picked this up from the Detroit Free Press:

Official play-by-play of the bizarre ending: Henne pass to Avant, lateral to Breaston, lateral to Hart, lateral to Avant, lateral to Manningham, lateral to Avant, lateral to Bihl, Beall fumbled, Hart recovered, lateral to Ecker, Ecker ran out at Nebraska 13.

[timmae]

love the effort of the players... have to be disgusted with the effort of the refs...

[scooper]

Something college football fans need to know about Michigan. They have NEVER lost a football game in the history of their program. Sure, some L's appear on their record, but either the refs stole the game, some major injuries on their part rendered the game null or the Wolverines themselves made some mistakes and let the other team score more points. But Michigan has never in 100+ years actually been beaten by another team. Just ask their fans. They'll tell you.

[scooper]

dola, that doesn't mean the officiating didn't suck last night. It's just that the fans' reactions have pretty much been scripted for years.

Oh, and UM coaches were on the field for that final play. Should have been off-setting penalties. Replay the down.

[ice4277]

Something college football fans need to know about Michigan. They have NEVER lost a football game in the history of their program. Sure, some L's appear on their record, but either the refs stole the game, some major injuries on their part rendered the game null or the Wolverines themselves made some mistakes and let the other team score more points. But Michigan has never in 100+ years actually been beaten by another team. Just ask their fans. They'll tell you.
Whatever. I don't think you'll find too many people making excuses for some of their pathetic late-game collapses earlier this season. There's no excuse for even being in that position at the end of the game yesterday. Jim Herman's defense has been in a steady decline since the '97 season, and doesn't show any signs of pulling out of it. He needs to go NOW.

[kcchief19]

I unfortunately didn't catch the game, but unless there was a fifth down play Michigan fans must get in line behind Missouri fans for worst officiated game ever.

[JW]

If you think those refs were bad, imagine the TYPICAL Sunbelt crew at work. I live near a Sunbelt Conference school and go to 3-4 games a year. The refs are terrible. This was I'm sure the best they have. Someone was an idiot to choose a Sunbelt crew for a major bowl game.

However, I think they did the right thing on the last play, the no-call. Imagine the uproar if Michigan had scored and the refs had called offsetting penalties (yes, unauthorized Michigan people were on the field, too), taken away the TD, and had them run the play again.

[MizzouRah]

I unfortunately didn't catch the game, but unless there was a fifth down play Michigan fans must get in line behind Missouri fans for worst officiated game ever.
I heart kcchief. ;)

[st.cronin]

This game was for the National Championship, right?

[MikeVick7]

I was at the game last night. And oh yes, there were plenty of Michigan folks, especially COACHES, that were on the field on that play. And they all seemed to be all in the area of the field where the Michigan TE got knocked out of bounds.



Oh and Go Big Red!!

[cthomer5000]

I was at the game last night. And oh yes, there were plenty of Michigan folks, especially COACHES, that were on the field on that play. And they all seemed to be all in the area of the field where the Michigan TE got knocked out of bounds.
I think we all agree that both teams were on the field. The question is, how the hell can the referees throw NO flags on that play?

I see two possibilities:

1. They are all legally blind.
2. They consciously neglected to call the penalties as they are written in the rulebook.

So either they need to be fired because they cannot physically do their jobs or they need to be disciplined because they decided to take the game into their own hands rather than follow the rulebook.

In either case, they should all be severly disciplined for that final play alone. .. not to mention the number of other bad calls they made.

[BYU 14]

Sunbelt refs are horrible, I got my first taste of them in the Las Vegas bowl and they made some bad calls for both teams. Two that stand out, BYU's tightend being stripped after catching a pass, controlling it, AND getting two feet down, he dropped on the Ball after the fumble, but they still called it incomplete after a replay review. Then to show I have no bias :) Cal got totally hosed on a phantom fack mask call where the defender grabbed the top of a recievers Shoulder pads....he was never even close to the Helmet..............

Oh yeah, add 11 fucking penalties on BYU in the first half and I hope we never schedule anyone from the Sun Belt ever if it means using one of their crews.

[Dunleavy]

a day later and this game is still driving me crazy, i find myself randomly shouting PITCH the %*@^ BALL. what was that TE doing, if he pitched at any point Michigan, scores, Michigan wins, and we all see an all-time great bowl finish,

[Passacaglia]

Just finished watching my tape. The game started at 7 PM Central time, and I recorded until 11 PM, and there were still 6 minutes left in the game when it stopped. How long did the game end up going, geez?

Anyway, crappy season for Michigan, not that this game would have saved anything. I missed the most controversial call, but the officiating was bad for both sides (duh).

So, Husker Nation: Does this season make everything Callahan is doing okay? I mean, getting rid of the option is one thing, but the walk-on program, too?

[Rich1033]

a day later and this game is still driving me crazy, i find myself randomly shouting PITCH the %*@^ BALL. what was that TE doing, if he pitched at any point Michigan, scores, Michigan wins, and we all see an all-time great bowl finish,No way the play would stand if Michigan scored.

As for the tOSU fan that said UofM fans claim to have never lost a game, just drop it. I dont personally know of any Michigan fan that does not completely blame the coaching staff for the loss. The horrible officiating just caused us to pull out even more of our hair in frustration.

Props to Nebraska, they outplayed and outcoached us.

[MikeVick7]

I've heard two different people now say that even if both teams got called for having too many men on the field, the penalties would have offset one another and the down would have NOT been replayed and the game would have been over.

So that puts an end to that argument. But yes, the refs were still bad.

[cthomer5000]

Off-setting penalties don't result in a replayed down in college football?

[Dunleavy]

I've heard two different people now say that even if both teams got called for having too many men on the field, the penalties would have offset one another and the down would have NOT been replayed and the game would have been over.

So that puts an end to that argument. But yes, the refs were still bad.


No way the play would stand if Michigan scored.

i dont believe that for a second.

1. the play as it was had no penalties
2. the refs ran off the field immedently after the play

the play would have stood, and dont bother finding the NCAA rule book b/c those refs where on a different planet

[MikeVick7]

Off-setting penalties don't result in a replayed down in college football? Not when there's no time left on the clock.

**EDIT** I heard this on ESPN and I think it was Rece Davis who said that he talked to some director of officiating...etc. "So it came from the top." So to speak. :)

[Solecismic]

Not when there's no time left on the clock.

**EDIT** I heard this on ESPN and I think it was Rece Davis who said that he talked to some director of officiating...etc. "So it came from the top." So to speak. :)

Sounds like ol' Rece was talking out the wrong end again.

Rule 3: Article 3: Extension of Periods. A period shall be extended until a down (other than a try), free from live-ball fouls not penalized as dead-ball fouls, has been played when:

b. Offsetting fouls occur during a down in which time expires.

Now, here's the rule on Illegal Interference, which is defined as "when anything other than the persons subject to the rules and those not subject to the rules interferes in any way with a player or the ball in play, it is illegal interference."

The referee has the authority to "replay the down or take any action he deems equitable, including awarding a score." If it's just 12 men on the field, it's a 15-yard penalty (and not a dead-ball foul).

So, under the rules, at minimum, it's offsetting penalties and the down is replayed. However, Hart's path was blocked initially by about 50 Nebraska people running onto the field. The referee could have awarded a touchdown on the spot, and, indeed, that could have been the appropriate call.

I don't think that would have been a fair ending unless replays show the extra Nebraska people were on the field at least a couple of seconds before the Michigan people. The right call then would have been a replay. But there's no question the referees did not handle it correctly.

And, as I said before, the one the bothers me the most was the non-call on the crystal-clear pass interference at the goal line with two minutes to play.

Certainly, Michigan lost four games this year. It was a terrible season by Michigan standards, they just seemed to fall apart once the fourth quarter began this season. They played tentatively and badly when the game was on the line, for the most part.

I do believe, however, that Michigan should have won this game, despite playing another poor fourth quarter. Sometimes, the officiating is so bad that it does make a difference.

[MikeVick7]

And, as I said before, the one the bothers me the most was the non-call on the crystal-clear pass interference at the goal line with two minutes to play.
But Jim, that play where the DB wraps one of his arms around the back of a receiver happens all the time. I don't think you can say that it was "crystal clear pass interference." That technique does not get called for pass interference 100% of the time. Maybe it should, but it doesn't.

I do believe, however, that Michigan should have won this game, despite playing another poor fourth quarter. Sometimes, the officiating is so bad that it does make a difference.And yes, Michigan should have won this game. They were up 28-17 and choked it against an inferior team. They even had us Nebraska fans sitting down for the first time at that point and the majority of Husker fans had been standing up ALL game. But they lost that game with their play on the field despite what the refs did. Pure and simple.

[Solecismic]

But Jim, that play where the DB wraps one of his arms around the back of a receiver happens all the time. I don't think you can say that it was "crystal clear pass interference." That technique does not get called for pass interference 100% of the time. Maybe it should, but it doesn't.


If you look at the replay, he pulled Manningham's left arm down, and it wasn't just a mild tug. That's not very frequent and is almost always called. There was a ref right there.

I think the game was just too fast for the Sun Belt refs. They were in way over their heads.

It would have been hilarious had Hart had the inspiration to run straight into the Nebraska throng entering the field and just trip over a coach or a player without a helmet. I think the referees would have spontaneously combusted.

[Honolulu_Blue]

But they lost that game with their play on the field despite what the refs did. Pure and simple.
I agree. They had an 11 point lead with, what, 10 minutes left in the game? They should have been able to hold on. Nebraska was on the ropes and UofM let the game get away from them in the 4th quarter, just like they have all season. There were some horrible, horrible calls. It's very possible that the game would have ended up differently if Carr hadn't had to brun two timeouts to get replays or if the right calls would have been made, but it shouldn't have come down to that.

[scooper]

No way the play would stand if Michigan scored.

As for the tOSU fan that said UofM fans claim to have never lost a game, just drop it. I dont personally know of any Michigan fan that does not completely blame the coaching staff for the loss. The horrible officiating just caused us to pull out even more of our hair in frustration.

Props to Nebraska, they outplayed and outcoached us.
:mad: tOSU fan? Them's fighting words! Especially this week.

Your argument about blaming the coaches actually plays into my point. "You didn't beat us. Our coaches did."

[Honolulu_Blue]

Your argument about blaming the coaches actually plays into my point. "You didn't beat us. Our coaches did."

Props to Nebraska, they outplayed and outcoached us.
Hrmm... An OSU fan with piss poor reading comprehension skills... shocking.

[scooper]

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/mad.gif tOSU fan? Them's fighting words! Especially this week.


Hmm....A Michigan fan with piss poor reading comprehension skills....shocking.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Hmm....A Michigan fan with piss poor reading comprehension skills....shocking.
A Norte Dame fan? I can't follow. In any event, it's six of one, half dozen of the other.

[stevew]

Video link of this play for those that still havent seen it?
Thanks in advance.

[Rich1033]

:mad: tOSU fan? Them's fighting words! Especially this week.

Your argument about blaming the coaches actually plays into my point. "You didn't beat us. Our coaches did."To clarify, the coaching jab goes more toward the entire season. When I look back and think about where improvements should be made the coaching stands out. That takes nothing away from Nebraska. As I already said, they outcoached and outplayed us.

[scooper]

A Norte Dame fan? I can't follow. In any event, it's six of one, half dozen of the other.Yes, a Notre Dame fan who 3 out of the last 4 years has been fed every excuse out of the book why ND didn't beat Michigan, Michigan gave the game to them. When UM won a couple years ago, they pounded the Irish, plain and simple. No excuses.

[scooper]

To clarify, the coaching jab goes more toward the entire season. When I look back and think about where improvements should be made the coaching stands out. That takes nothing away from Nebraska. As I already said, they outcoached and outplayed us.
Fair enough. I'll concede that the officiating was some of the worst I've seen.

[Passacaglia]

Yes, a Notre Dame fan who 3 out of the last 4 years has been fed every excuse out of the book why ND didn't beat Michigan, Michigan gave the game to them. When UM won a couple years ago, they pounded the Irish, plain and simple. No excuses.

Why does that bug you so much? I mean, if Michigan won those games, I'd just be happy we won them -- not concerned about what ND fans are saying.

[ice4277]

Why does that bug you so much? I mean, if Michigan won those games, I'd just be happy we won them -- not concerned about what ND fans are saying.
For some reason, OSU, MSU and, I guess, ND fans REALLY seem to get a bug up their ass when they hear any sort of complaint from Michigan fans about anything. I've never really understood this either.

[LloydLungs]

I think the game was just too fast for the Sun Belt refs. They were in way over their heads.

I heard the announcers pushing this idea during the game, but believe me, Sun Belt refs are every bit as bad working Sun Belt games. It has nothing to do with the speed of the game and everything to do with these guys just being horrible.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I heard the announcers pushing this idea during the game, but believe me, Sun Belt refs are every bit as bad working Sun Belt games. It has nothing to do with the speed of the game and everything to do with these guys just being horrible.
The head ref just looked incompotent. He had a mean, kinda stupid look on his face and that big, fat belly with those skinny arms. Where is Ed Hercules when you need him?

[scooper]

Why does that bug you so much? I mean, if Michigan won those games, I'd just be happy we won them -- not concerned about what ND fans are saying.
It doesn't really bug me much. Wins are wins. And Losses are losses. I've witnessed plenty of both. It was more an observation. As a fan base, Michigan fans just seem to offer more excuses than most, and I took this opportunity to predict the excuses based on the officiating. Then again, I admit that this time UM fans actually have a pretty good argument.

[scooper]

For some reason, OSU, MSU and, I guess, ND fans REALLY seem to get a bug up their ass when they hear any sort of complaint from Michigan fans about anything. I've never really understood this either.
Complaints and excuses are not always the same. Though in the case of Lloyd, I guess they are.

[cthomer5000]

Video link of this play for those that still havent seen it?
Thanks in advance.
I haven't seen one that shows the rear angle where nebraska is covering the entire left side of the field.

[scooper]

Alright, one more post. I think one problem with the officiating was having a crew with no replay experience. If I'm not mistaken, the Sun Belt didn't use it. For example, it was pretty obvious the dropped NU TD needed to be reviewed. The refs should have stalled for a few seconds to give the booth a chance to at least make a decision to take another look. But the ball was placed for the extra point immediately. The pace when using replay is different than a normal game.

[HerRealName]

Rece Davis said yesterday that the device used by the replay official to notify the on field officials malfunctioned on that Henne fumble. That makes it even stranger to me why that TO was taken away from Michigan. They should have been able to give that TO back to Michigan if there was an attempt to stop the game and there were technical problems.

My guess is that Carr's tirade following that play is what led to the excessively slow spots following Nebraska's runs at the end of the game.

[sterlingice]

Video link of this play for those that still havent seen it?
Thanks in advance.The entire highlight package of the game, including the last play, is on ESPN.com on the little motion thing on the side of the screen under the heading "Nebraska survives late charge to top Michigan" on the main College Football page.

SI

[cthomer5000]

The entire highlight package of the game, including the last play, is on ESPN.com on the little motion thing on the side of the screen under the heading "Nebraska survives late charge to top Michigan" on the main College Football page.

SI
yes, but this DOES NOT show the rear angle, which showed literally 50+ Nebraska players and staff occupying the entire left side of the field. I have yet to see that shown outside the game broadcast.

[st.cronin]

yes, but this DOES NOT show the rear angle, which showed literally 50+ Nebraska players and staff occupying the entire left side of the field. I have yet to see that shown outside the game broadcast.

It was shown in highlights on sportscenter that night (or the next morning).

[sterlingice]

yes, but this DOES NOT show the rear angle, which showed literally 50+ Nebraska players and staff occupying the entire left side of the field. I have yet to see that shown outside the game broadcast.It doesn't? I watched it yesterday and it was the entire Sportscenter highlights of the game, the second half of which was all about the last play including 3 or 4 different angles. Dang. They must have changed it.

SI

[illinifan999]

yes, but this DOES NOT show the rear angle, which showed literally 50+ Nebraska players and staff occupying the entire left side of the field. I have yet to see that shown outside the game broadcast.
I've seen the rear angle on sportscenter about 50 times now.

[scooper]

I've seen the rear angle on sportscenter about 50 times now.
Me too. His name is Stuart Scott.

[Craptacular]

I'm glad I recorded this on the DVR when I went to bed before the 4th quarter! I haven't watched it yet though.

[JW]

Sounds like ol' Rece was talking out the wrong end again.

Rule 3: Article 3: Extension of Periods. A period shall be extended until a down (other than a try), free from live-ball fouls not penalized as dead-ball fouls, has been played when:

b. Offsetting fouls occur during a down in which time expires.

Now, here's the rule on Illegal Interference, which is defined as "when anything other than the persons subject to the rules and those not subject to the rules interferes in any way with a player or the ball in play, it is illegal interference."

The referee has the authority to "replay the down or take any action he deems equitable, including awarding a score." If it's just 12 men on the field, it's a 15-yard penalty (and not a dead-ball foul).

So, under the rules, at minimum, it's offsetting penalties and the down is replayed. However, Hart's path was blocked initially by about 50 Nebraska people running onto the field. The referee could have awarded a touchdown on the spot, and, indeed, that could have been the appropriate call.

I don't think that would have been a fair ending unless replays show the extra Nebraska people were on the field at least a couple of seconds before the Michigan people. The right call then would have been a replay. But there's no question the referees did not handle it correctly.

And, as I said before, the one the bothers me the most was the non-call on the crystal-clear pass interference at the goal line with two minutes to play.

Certainly, Michigan lost four games this year. It was a terrible season by Michigan standards, they just seemed to fall apart once the fourth quarter began this season. They played tentatively and badly when the game was on the line, for the most part.

I do believe, however, that Michigan should have won this game, despite playing another poor fourth quarter. Sometimes, the officiating is so bad that it does make a difference.

Now having read the rules excerpt, if the referee had the option to "take any action he deems equitable" for illegal participation, then doesn't this mean the ref had the option under the rules to take no action? I have been assuming the refs made a 'no call' when they should have thrown a flag. But based on what Solecismic has written, then couldn't the refs have decided that making no call was the 'equitable' thing to do? I'm not a rules expert by any means. Was the ref within his rights on the field to take no action under the rules?

Let me repeat that the refs were horrible, and viewers got a taste of what goes on every week in Sunbelt conference games.

[larrymcg421]

Watching the play again, I don't see Michigan people on the field until the very end. The Nebraska players directly interfered in the play and caused the Michigan runner to change his path. There is nothing equitable about calling no flag on the play.

[cthomer5000]

Now having read the rules excerpt, if the referee had the option to "take any action he deems equitable" for illegal participation, then doesn't this mean the ref had the option under the rules to take no action? I have been assuming the refs made a 'no call' when they should have thrown a flag. But based on what Solecismic has written, then couldn't the refs have decided that making no call was the 'equitable' thing to do? I'm not a rules expert by any means. Was the ref within his rights on the field to take no action under the rules?
I don't believe that clause allows the refs to simply not make calls. I believe that clause is the standard catch-all for covering a situation that isn't specified in the rulebook. This was a clear-cut "too many men on the field" situation.

[JW]

Watching the play again, I don't see Michigan people on the field until the very end. The Nebraska players directly interfered in the play and caused the Michigan runner to change his path. There is nothing equitable about calling no flag on the play.

That's not my question. My question is simply whether the refs had the option under the rules to determine that making no call was the equitable thing to do.

I assume they also would have had the option then to say that since Nebraska had more people on the field than Michigan did, that Michigan should have been given one play from where the player went out of bounds, or something like that.

Is that right? Did the refs have the right under the rules to craft the remedy they thought best in this case?

My personal view, as a fan of neither Michigan nor Nebraska, is that a no-call was probably the best thing. Nothing the refs could have done on that play would have made everyone happy.

[Airhog]

I didnt see the video on ESPN's website

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls05/news/story?id=2274608

"No penalties were called on the play, but David Parry, NCAA national coordinator of football officials and coordinator of officials for the Big Ten said Thursday that both teams should have been penalized for extra people on the field."

[JonInMiddleGA]

I didnt see the video on ESPN's website

It's off the front page but at least at the moment you can find it here:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls05/bowls?game=alamo

Link reads "Nebraska survives wild ending" & has one of the those ESPN Motion video links with it. What you get is the Sportscenter version that starts with the last half of the 4th quarter & then the whole whack ending, including the end zone view (at least I believe this is what people are talking about) that shows the entire Nebraska bench on the field.

That was the first time I'd seen the SC recap believe it or not, and seeing the controversial plays compressed into a highlight reel like that now has me convinced: this was indeed the worst officiated game in NCAA history. As bad as the last play was, the "fumble" called on Henne is even worse IMO. A Saturday morning rec ball crew could have gotten that one right for a bunch of 9 year olds.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Alright, time to weigh in. JW has it right. No need to throw any flags there. If Michigan scores, count it. If they don't, game over. I don't see how flags and a replayed down makes anyone happier.

As for Jim, I love ya' man. You invented the best damned football game in the history of mankind (I'm not kidding there), but your recollection of 1997-1998 is getting foggy. Frankly, Michigan was lucky to go undefeated, and lucky to even win one poll. The Huskers would have creamed them, I have no doubt. Michigan squeaked out wins all year long, and barely beat WSU in the Rosebowl. On the other hand, Nebraska whooped up on almost everyone they played (including the Vols in the Orange Bowl), except Mizzou. And it was a catch.

Simply put, Michigan is overrated in the polls at the beginning of every season, and the AP especially has been incredibly biased in their favor. It's amazing how little they ever drop with a loss, and how far they climb with a win. They never should have been ranked ahead of Nebraska anyways in either poll before you woke up that one early morning in 1998.

I think you can tell what school I went to.

[Vegas Vic]

On the other hand, Nebraska whooped up on almost everyone they played (including the Vols in the Orange Bowl), except Mizzou. And it was a catch.

In addition to the fluke kicked ball against Missouri in a 45-38 OT win, I guess you forgot about the game two weeks later when they barely beat Colorado 27-24. Also, earlier in the season, they were in a dogfight against Central Florida before winning by 14 late in the game.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Pesky little details, but doesn't change much. Did you see the other games? They were throwing up 40, 50, 60, 70 points a game in the other ones. Michigan barely had a blow out all season. Compare the schedules side by side and my argument holds water.

Of course, I would expect some to say "but they played all the tough teams in the Big 10." Well, frankly the whole Big 10 is overrated every year, including that one.

Edit: I should have added that thanks to stupid NCAA, we'll never truly know.

[cthomer5000]

Alright, time to weigh in. JW has it right. No need to throw any flags there. If Michigan scores, count it. If they don't, game over. I don't see how flags and a replayed down makes anyone happier.
It's the right thing to do, period. We have no idea how things were influenced on that play byt what happened. Since most that play was run in the right hash mark, presumably that left side of the field was wide open.... except for the 50 Nebraska players occupying that space. And I'm confident that the Michigan players/coaches that stepped onto the field only did so when all of Nebraska was on the field and they hadn't seen any flags.

It isn't much to ask to expect the referees to do their job, especially when faced with the most obvious call possible.

[Poli]

And it was a catch.
An illegal batting before the catch, but I'll let you have it.

[Scoobz0202]

As for Jim, I love ya' man. You invented the best damned football game in the history of mankind (I'm not kidding there), but your recollection of 1997-1998 is getting foggy. Frankly, Michigan was lucky to go undefeated, and lucky to even win one poll. The Huskers would have creamed them, I have no doubt. Michigan squeaked out wins all year long, and barely beat WSU in the Rosebowl. On the other hand, Nebraska whooped up on almost everyone they played (including the Vols in the Orange Bowl), except Mizzou. And it was a catch.


I am a Ohio State fan so it is odd that I would even be remotely defending Michigan, but the 02 Buckeyes never had a blowout. Every game of the season " experts" were predicting they would finally lose. Michigan was supposed to finally beat them. Miami though, was supposed to cream them. That, obviously, did not happen. I do though, think Nebraska was better but that can not be proven since they never played each other.

[larrymcg421]

This is what I don't get. People say that a no call was the most fair thing to do. Well, if you think the refs wanted to do a no call to be equitable, that doesn't make any sense. When the first 50 Nebraska players/coaches stormed the field to get in Hart's way, there should have been a flag thrown. From every angle I've seen, Michigan isn't on the field yet. Are you really arguing that they've already determined at this point that the best thing to do would be no flag? I could understand that point of view if they had thrown a flag but decided to pick it up.

The only way I think a no call is fair to all sides is if a Michigan player had decked the would be Nebraska tackler near the end zone. Then both teams would have been interfered with on the play.

[ISiddiqui]

I am a Ohio State fan so it is odd that I would even be remotely defending Michigan, but the 02 Buckeyes never had a blowout. Every game of the season " experts" were predicting they would finally lose. Michigan was supposed to finally beat them. Miami though, was supposed to cream them. That, obviously, did not happen. I do though, think Nebraska was better but that can not be proven since they never played each other.And I'd hope that a Pats fan would understand that ;). The Pats during their dynasty didn't win huge (or as huge as others), they just were able to pull it out in the end. It's the same thing with OSU '02 and Michigan '97. They didn't win huge and people thought they'd eventually lose, but in the end, they just won.

[Airhog]

just from watching that video, it didnt look to me like he made the catch, and that is why they stormed the field. Still should have called a penalty though.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

And I'd hope that a Pats fan would understand that ;). The Pats during their dynasty didn't win huge (or as huge as others), they just were able to pull it out in the end. It's the same thing with OSU '02 and Michigan '97. They didn't win huge and people thought they'd eventually lose, but in the end, they just won.

In any other sport other than college football I would agree with you (because you have to win your last game to be the champ). Where all we are left with is guessing who would win and a champion is picked by poll, you are only left with trying to decide who would win a game between them. On the evidence of how they played that year, you got to give the nod to Nebraska. But, even I said before we will never truly know.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Now, here's the rule on Illegal Interference, which is defined as "when anything other than the persons subject to the rules and those not subject to the rules interferes in any way with a player or the ball in play, it is illegal interference."

The referee has the authority to "replay the down or take any action he deems equitable, including awarding a score." If it's just 12 men on the field, it's a 15-yard penalty (and not a dead-ball foul).

So, under the rules, at minimum, it's offsetting penalties and the down is replayed. However, Hart's path was blocked initially by about 50 Nebraska people running onto the field. The referee could have awarded a touchdown on the spot, and, indeed, that could have been the appropriate call. TMQ argued today that the "unfair action" rule should have been enforced, with Michigan getting an untimed down from the Nebraska 13 as the "equitable" relief.