NFL: New Lions Coach [Archive] - Front Office Football Central

DeToxRox

12-31-2005, 01:13 AM

Channel 4 NBC in Detroit on the 11 PM news announced that Chiefs Offensive Coordinator Al Saunders will be named the new Detroit Lions Head Coach.

He has been enamored with Joey Harrington, even going as far as to ask Dick Vermil to deal for him.

He loves what he can do with the deep pass and that's the offense he wants to run.

It's worked in KC, I hope it carries over and I find him a good choice but who knows.

Again this isn't confirmed but it is from a high ranking Lions source apparently.

larnott

12-31-2005, 01:18 AM

Well, damn.

He was supposed to take over for Vermeil after he leaves.

timmynausea

12-31-2005, 01:29 AM

This sounds way too competent to be true. Millen will find a way to get Dave Wannstedt in there.

Deattribution

12-31-2005, 01:43 AM

Vinatieri for Prez

12-31-2005, 02:52 AM

Maybe he did already, although doubtful.

Blade6119

12-31-2005, 03:03 AM

If it's true, it's even more fuel on the fire why Millen needs to be fired - once again choosing his coach before going through the approriate hiring process.

Even though he's obviously not contracted yet, I still hope the NFL fines Millen and the Lions for being retarded.

Do teams have to interview 5 free agents for that QB spot before signing one? It doesnt make sense to me..i understand minority hiring, but if they like a coach i dont see a problem going after him. Why waste everyone elses time?

DeToxRox

12-31-2005, 07:46 AM

dola for the EST crowd.

12-31-2005, 08:44 AM

I would hope that since Millen said during the firing of Steve, that he would follow NFL guidelines, that will be a lengthy interviewing process with multiple canidates. I haven't heard this rumor yet on the AM Sports Talk Radio Stations yet, nor the papers.

Scarecrow

12-31-2005, 09:05 AM

I would assume that's just speculation, since teams can't talk to coaches that are currently employed until their team is done for the season.

That being said (sorry Buddy), I'd rather have him in Detroit than in Oakland. As a Chiefs fan, I wasn't expecting him to be Vermeil's replacement Herm Edwards. In fact, I didn't expect Saunders to be in a Chief's polo next season. Expect to see Charlie Joyner in the OC booth next season (unless some big name OC with ties to Carl Peterson becomes unemployed).

Greyroofoo

12-31-2005, 09:09 AM

I just think its funny on how the past couple years most sportswriters and fans praised most of the Lions offseason moves but then get mad when they perform like #$& on the field and the coach gets fired.

Just my two cents.

Cringer

12-31-2005, 01:15 PM

I would assume that's just speculation, since teams can't talk to coaches that are currently employed until their team is done for the season.

Glad someone pointed his out. I read this on my phone this morning and wanted to post it but I can't post on the cell.

It must be speculation. The NFL would go nuts for 'tampering' if Millen had already talked to him. Hell, if they say anything out loud to the media they still might get upset.

Although, after this weeks games is the one week window for assistants on playoff teams to be interviewed. So if KC gets in the playoffs or not (not sure if they still can, I don't remember right now) he may have a job soon.

Ragone

12-31-2005, 01:31 PM

its especially speculation considering the lion's haven't done any "minority interviews"

and to announce something like this would make it nearly impossible to get one to even come in for one.. as like the mooch hire a few years back

and besides.. if this is true.. the chiefs better demand comphensation, hell.. just send them charles rogers

:)

st.cronin

12-31-2005, 06:17 PM

He has been enamored with Joey Harrington...

lol

JeffNights

12-31-2005, 06:52 PM

This sounds way too competent to be true. Millen will find a way to get Dave Wannstedt in there.

I didnt even read the whole thread yet, but this almost fall outta my chair laughing. Great freaking post....its hurts because its True.

WVUFAN

12-31-2005, 07:40 PM

Do teams have to interview 5 free agents for that QB spot before signing one? It doesnt make sense to me..i understand minority hiring, but if they like a coach i dont see a problem going after him. Why waste everyone elses time?
I don't understand minority hiring. You wouldn't hire a white person to be head coach because he's white, why would you consider someone for even an interview based on skin color? You interview the best person for the job, regardless of the color of his skin.

oykib

12-31-2005, 08:30 PM

I don't understand minority hiring. You wouldn't hire a white person to be head coach because he's white, why would you consider someone for even an interview based on skin color? You interview the best person for the job, regardless of the color of his skin.

That's because until recently the NFL had a woeful record on minority hires. For league where more than half the players are minorities, the number of NFL head coaches and front office personell that are minorities is ridiculous. But there have been strides made.

The point is that black coaches never even got the time of day. There were always a bunch of white retreads that got jobs. The NFL just forces teams to interview people, which I think is fine. At least it allows the coaches to be part of the network. That may lead to jobs down the line.

And honestly, we weren't talking about Millen hiring Bill Parcells or Joe Gibbs last time. He blew off even talking to qualified minority candidates to hire another slightly above average retread.

When you get down to it, we're talking about a league where Bruce Coslet and Rich Kotite got second chances-- not to mention Wanny and Norv Turner.

WVUFAN

12-31-2005, 08:45 PM

That's because until recently the NFL had a woeful record on minority hires. For league where more than half the players are minorities, the number of NFL head coaches and front office personell that are minorities is ridiculous. But there have been strides made.
I can understand the idea behind it, but when you are forced to interview people simply based on a nationality and not on merit, you're placing a unfair requirement on ownership to hire someone they don't think is the best for the job. By interviewing, then not hiring the minority, you're opening it up for people to complain, which has happened when a minority coach is considered by not hired. The stigma the ownership is handed is unfair, and are pushed next time to not only interview, but hire the minority, even though the ownership may prefer someone else.

My point is if the owners actually own the team, they should be able to hire whomever they want without any influence to hire someone, especially someone based on skin color. This is paramount to affirmative action and that's the last thing you want in the NFL.

And honestly, we weren't talking about Millen hiring Bill Parcells or Joe Gibbs last time. He blew off even talking to qualified minority candidates to hire another slightly above average retread. Well, if you're referring to Steve Mariucci, I would disagree that he's a slightly above average retread. He wasn't given an ample chance to be successful, and I believe he is one of the top 15 coaches in the NFL. Millen should be able to hire whomever he wants to the job.

kcchief19

12-31-2005, 09:15 PM

I can understand the idea behind it, but when you are forced to interview people simply based on a nationality and not on merit, you're placing a unfair requirement on ownership to hire someone they don't think is the best for the job. By interviewing, then not hiring the minority, you're opening it up for people to complain, which has happened when a minority coach is considered by not hired. The stigma the ownership is handed is unfair, and are pushed next time to not only interview, but hire the minority, even though the ownership may prefer someone else.I don't think you do understand the idea behind it. There is no requirement whatsoever that owners hire someone they don't think is right for the job. The only requirement is that they interview someone they might not have considered simply because they are black. The idea is twofold: one, that owners might discover a candidate they like that they wouldn't have otherwise considered; and two, that minority coaches will get more experience interviewing for head coaching jobs.

I have seen very little instances of NFL owners being pushed to hire a minority. I have seen NFL owners critized when they don't follow a very simple rule. And the biggest negative I've seen is that the more jobs minority coaches interview for and don't get makes it less likely they'll ever get a job, because there is a perception they are passed over for a reason.

It's not a great rule, but the intent of the rule is positive, and I haven't seen anybody come up with a better idea, other than NFL owners on their own realize that there are a lot of talented minority coaching candidates out there.

kcchief19

12-31-2005, 09:28 PM

One would have to conclude this is extreme speculation, since it would be against NFL rules for the Lions to have contact with Saunders right now. That said, there has been some speculation here in KC that Detroit will have some interest in Saunders.

I really don't know what Saunders prospects in Kansas City are. There is quite a bit of anti-Vermeil sentiment building. Saunders by all accounts has been promised that he would be given at the very least strong consideration for the job when Vermeil leaves. But there is going to besome pressure on Carl Peterson to bring in a defensive-minded head coach and more of a disciplinarian. The problem with that is that if you bypass Saunders, he will undoubtedly leave and he is without question the braintrust behind the offense.

If Vermeil does step down, it sure could set off a chain reaction through a couple of organizations. I do think Peterson will make a run at Herm Edwards if Vermeil retires/is fired.

The funny thing is that it is apparently true that the Chiefs want Joey Harrington. It would be quite humorous if Saunders ends up in Detroit next year and Harrington is in Kansas City.

Cringer

12-31-2005, 10:00 PM

About he minority hiring rule, does it use the word 'minority' only or does it say 'black' or 'african-american' specifically?

I just wondered because what if a team interviewed 4 whites guys and a Chinese guy, would that be cool to the NFL? Or more realistically, the fifth guy was a hispanic? I wonder if they would still throw a fit?

cougarfreak

01-01-2006, 09:31 AM

oykib

01-01-2006, 10:10 AM

I wonder if the NFL will soon make teams draft a white rb,lb,cb,s, and a black kicker, punter, and qb and let them "try out" at the respective positions to make sure the team is giving people who are in the minority at each position a chance.

Don't be a jackass. It's clear when players are able to perform. Which assistant coaches will be good head coaches is not so clear. It doesn't hurt anyone for the NFL to mandate that teams at least interview qualified minority candidates. If they don't have anything to offer, no one will hire them. But at least give them a chance.

cougarfreak

01-01-2006, 10:50 AM

Don't be a jackass. It's clear when players are able to perform. Which assistant coaches will be good head coaches is not so clear. It doesn't hurt anyone for the NFL to mandate that teams at least interview qualified minority candidates. If they don't have anything to offer, no one will hire them. But at least give them a chance.

Yeah......it's real clear when players can perform, there are never any draft busts or anything like that. :rolleyes: And I'm sure the Bengals, Jets, Bears, etc. hired their respective candidates BECAUSE of the minority hiring policy. The policy should insult minorities, it's the jackass part of this equation.

cthomer5000

01-01-2006, 10:55 AM

Any thoughts that the Vermeil retirement might be in part so that the Chiefs can retain Saunders as their new head coach?

The Lions can't even offically have had contact with him yet, so perhaps the Cheifs can convince him to stay.

All of this is based of the fact that the Chiefs presumably want him as their coach. I'm basing that entirely off this thread, since I hadn't personally heard that before.

the_meanstrosity

01-01-2006, 11:18 AM

I don't believe so. Saunders has been offered interviews (Nebraska, Oakland, etc) before and turned them down because the Chiefs front office has promised him a serious look when Vermeil decides to retire. With Vermeil announcing his retirement, I think they'll probably keep things in house and hire Saunders to keep the staff intact. That's just my guess.

oykib

01-01-2006, 12:16 PM

Yeah......it's real clear when players can perform, there are never any draft busts or anything like that. :rolleyes: And I'm sure the Bengals, Jets, Bears, etc. hired their respective candidates BECAUSE of the minority hiring policy. The policy should insult minorities, it's the jackass part of this equation.

It is clear which players will be competent at the professional level. But there really isn't much accuracy in picking coaches. If there were no clarity in personell decisions then how could some teams continually make good choices. You look at New England or Pittsburgh, for example, and you see teams that are able to continue to perform at high levels despite injuries and free agent defections.

Your argument about the inaccuracy of the lousy teams at drafting is really making my point about how you don't know which front office people will be good. But quality people need to at least get a chance to move in the circles where they can get to know the people who may be their employers in the future.

WVUFAN

01-01-2006, 03:34 PM

Your argument about the inaccuracy of the lousy teams at drafting is really making my point about how you don't know which front office people will be good. But quality people need to at least get a chance to move in the circles where they can get to know the people who may be their employers in the future.
I would agree with the fact that alot of coaches are passed over, and I do agree that quality people need to get a chance to move into the network. We differ, however, on the fact that just because a person is a minority does not make him a "quality" person. Quality should be determined by the ownership making the hiring, not the NFL, and certainly quality isn't determined by skin color, so why would you force an interview on a potentially inferior coach simply because he's a minority? You shouldn't. The NFL approves or disapproves of new ownership when they acquire a team. The NFL should trust those same owners they deem worthy of owning an NFL team to make the right decision on whom to interview, and not forcefeed minorities.

I still say that there's a stigma attached to a team that interviews, but does not hire a minority.

oykib

01-01-2006, 04:01 PM

We're not talking about force feeding inferior candidates.

NFL head coaches come from three places.

1 - retreads, former NFL coaches.

2 - college head coaches that are elevated

3 - NFL coordinators

We know that because of a legacy of prejudice there are a limited number of minority candidates from 1 and 2-- particularly 2. But, maybe because of that, there seem to have been a number of quality black number 3s. The top caoches tend to be passed over, though.

It's pretty well established that the coordinators of the top teams or the elite units get a look. But that hasn't been the case with black coordinators, or at least, it hasn't been nearly as quick for them as for their comparably qualified white counterparts (with the notable exception of Charlie Weiss).

And I can't remeber any team that has been chastised for interviewing a black number 3 and going with a different choice.

Blade6119

01-01-2006, 10:56 PM

Samdari

01-02-2006, 09:24 AM

I'm sure the Jets, . hired their respective candidates BECAUSE of the minority hiring policy.

Actually, the minority policy DID choose the Jets coach. Herm Edwards was interviewed in KC, when Terry Bradway was assistant GM there. Herm had no chance of getting the job, as a twice proven coach was available in Vermeil, but everyone, including Bradway, was impressed with Edwards. When Bradway was hired as GM for the Jets, there was only one name on his list of head coaching candidates: Herm Edwards. Call the policy silly if you will (and I won't argue with you) but there is at least one shining example of it having the intended effect - giving minority head coaching candidates exposure they might not otherwise get.