NFL Week 17

[SirFozzie]

Ok kiddies, back to your corners... let the slap fight come to an end..

[cuervo72]

I'm surprised nobody has taken an intenional safety.

[Eaglesfan27]

I guess I can at least take a measure of solace from the fact that our implosion screwed the Cowboys.

I disagree with my fellow fan. I think Philly will be a serious playoff team again next year if we can stay healthy. Injuries just crushed us this year.

[JeeberD]

Say goodnight the Parties over, Dallas' playoff hopes are dead and gone......



Yeehaaa.....

How bout them redskins *lol*

You, sir, are a piece of shit. ;)

[Axxon]

The NFL is a business. Would I want my team to throw the game to get possibly the best draft pick in recent memory? YES! Now the players of course won't feel this way, because nothing is certain in terms of job security in the NFL, but if I'm the GM or Owner, yeah, I'd want to lose this game. The drop off between 1 and 2 is huge this year. Do I really want D Bricksaw Fergison or whatever his name is (I believe the T out of Virginia).

I understand the desire. It's natural man. I would want the same thing. You said you'd do it though and that's wrong. It's not just wrong for a player to tank but for an owner and a GM. It's shafting your players and destroying the legitimacy of the league, that's why it's not allowed. If you would hurt your business overall to gain a short term advantage there are terms even more applicable than immoral though, I'll grant you.

But we better get off the topic since it's about morality in sports. :)

[Solecismic]

Looks like SF may pull this one out. Great punt.

And there goes Dallas....

[Pumpy Tudors]

Tony Banks just threw an interception that has been returned fairly deep into Houston territory. I can only imagine that Alex Smith or Frank Gore will fumble on the next play.

[cuervo72]

That was a funny play - SF guy didn't want to run very fast, and HOU didn't want to tackle him...

[Eaglesfan27]

Also, I think Reggie Brown has a decent chance to be a legitimate #1 receiver, if not next year, by the year after that at the latest. Greg Lewis has been a big disappointment this year, however. His speed should get him open much more frequently than he does.

[Pumpy Tudors]

You know what? If Houston really wanted to lose the game and not make it clear that they were trying, they could have just committed holding in the end zone to end the game. Anyway, here comes Joe Nedney to kick the 49ers to victory.

[Desnudo]

This thread is teetering on the brink.

[TazFTW]

Now will Parcells start Henson/Romo?

[Axxon]

Ok kiddies, back to your corners... let the slap fight come to an end..

Oh come on, tempers haven't even flared yet and no one has gotten hurt.

Oh, you meant the Washington vs Philly game. Sorry. :D

[cuervo72]

Yep, that would be one approach to an intentional safety. Heck, maybe they *are* on the level.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Please, Lord, make this kick look like the comedy Robbie Gould field goal from a few weeks ago.

[TazFTW]

It's good!

[kcchief19]

Wildcard wekend is set:
<table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="s3" align="center">Wild Card Weekend

</td></tr> <tr align="center"><td class="s3">Saturday, January 7</td></tr> <tr align="center"><td class="s3"> 4:30 p.m. on ABC -- Washington (10-6) at Tampa Bay (11-5)
8:00 p.m. on ABC -- Jacksonville (12-4) at New England (10-6)
</td></tr> <tr><td height="25"> </td></tr> <tr align="center"><td class="s3">Sunday, January 8</td></tr> <tr align="center"><td class="s3"> 1:00 p.m. on FOX -- Carolina (11-5) at N.Y. Giants (11-5)
4:30 p.m. on CBS -- Pittsburgh (11-5) at Cincinnati (11-5)</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Solecismic]

And that costs San Francisco quite a bit.

[Philliesfan980]

I guess I can at least take a measure of solace from the fact that our implosion screwed the Cowboys.

I disagree with my fellow fan. I think Philly will be a serious playoff team again next year if we can stay healthy. Injuries just crushed us this year.

I agree that Injuries have killed the Eagles this year, but not so much on the defensive side of the ball. Sure , we lost Lito , but to be honest, he looked lost this year. He hasn't been the same player since the Super Bowl last year when Deion Branch caught that TD in the back of the endzone. I think he's lost part of his confidence. Dawkins is on the downhill side of his career, and Brown really hasn't stepped it up this year. Trotter is great, but other than that, I can't say that anyone else stands out anymore. Even Kearse (albeit double teamed all the time), isn't getting to the QB. In the past, we could blitz the hell out of the QB. Now we send guys, but nobody gets there.

I should say that I think we'll be a playoff contender, but not a super bowl contender. Do you really like Westbrook as our #1 RB? I like Reid and all, but he needs to revamp his playcalling. I'd like to see us run the ball a little more (everyone says that, but its true). With this latest loss, I'm hoping that D'Angelo Williams falls to us, but that may be wishful thinking. I just don't think that Westbrook, as great as he is at catching the ball, will ever be a between the tackles, 1400-1500 yard runner.

[Tekneek]

Of course. But you're changing the argument. You said New England's crappy divisional schedule meant their record is invalid, when they in fact played in a division with the same record from the other three teams (if Houston loses).

I didn't mean to change the argument, but I get your point. The Patriots do have the worst record amongst division winners this season, though. Maybe that doesn't mean much.

EDIT... I meant to add that I figured that to reveal the weakness of a division, but maybe it doesn't.

[Eaglesfan27]

Should be some fun games to watch next weekend.

[Philliesfan980]

Also, I think Reggie Brown has a decent chance to be a legitimate #1 receiver, if not next year, by the year after that at the latest. Greg Lewis has been a big disappointment this year, however. His speed should get him open much more frequently than he does.

I agree that Greg Lewis has been a disappointment, but he is what he is... a #3 WR in this league. He can use his speed to beat most nickle backs in the NFL, but not against #1 CB's. He doesn't have the size to be a #1. Outside of Steve Smith, and maybe Santana Moss, every #1 that I can think of has a little size to them.

[Philliesfan980]

Dola .. did I hear correctly today that someone dropped kicked an extra point?

[WVUFAN]

Dola .. did I hear correctly today that someone dropped kicked an extra point?
Yup. Doug Flutie for the Pats did it today against the Dolphins.

[Eaglesfan27]

I should say that I think we'll be a playoff contender, but not a super bowl contender. Do you really like Westbrook as our #1 RB? I like Reid and all, but he needs to revamp his playcalling. I'd like to see us run the ball a little more (everyone says that, but its true). With this latest loss, I'm hoping that D'Angelo Williams falls to us, but that may be wishful thinking. I just don't think that Westbrook, as great as he is at catching the ball, will ever be a between the tackles, 1400-1500 yard runner.
Honestly, I like Brian Westbrook as our #1 if we have a complimentary power back to alternate with him. I don't think he will be a 1,400-1500 yard runner, but I think he can be a 1000 yard guy on the ground and 600-800 yard guy via catches. If we have a power back to alternate when needed, I'll gladly take that. I agree that Jevon Kearse has taken a downturn this year, and I think that is partially due to letting Corey Simon go which I think was our worst move the past year. I'm also sadly in agreement that Dawkins is starting to decline, but he is still one of the better FS in the league.

I do agree that Reid needs to make some adjustments to his playcalling, but I think he did that to some extent later this year, and I hope it carries over next year. I think the defense will be fine, if we can run the ball better next year which we saw signs of in the last few weeks. I also would like to see us make an upgrade at cornerback (I agree with your assessment of Lito), possibly with a first round pick.

[Solecismic]

Draft Order: If Dallas beats St. Louis:

1. Houston 2-14
2. New Orleans 3-13
3. Tennessee 4-12
4. New York Jets 4-12
5. Green Bay 4-12
6. San Francisco 4-12
7. Oakland 4-12
8. St. Louis 5-11
9. Buffalo 5-11
10. Arizona 5-11
11. Detroit 5-11
12. Cleveland 6-10
13. Baltimore 6-10
14. Philadelphia 6-10
15. Atlanta 8-8
16. Miami 9-7
17. Minnesota 9-7
18. San Diego 9-7
19. Kansas City 10-6
20. Dallas 10-6
(subject to Super Bowl result)
21. New England 10-6
22. Washington 10-6
23. Tampa Bay 11-5
24. Carolina 11-5
25. Chicago 11-5
26. Cincinnati 11-5
27. New York Giants 11-5
28. Pittsburgh 11-5
29. Jacksonville 12-4
30. Seattle 13-3
31. Denver 13-3
32. Indianapolis 14-2

[kcchief19]

Washington at Tampa Bay bores me, mostly because I don't really care for either team. The Redskins certainly seem to have momentum on their side. Carolina and the Giants is a snoozer too. I guess I don't care about the NFC unless the Cowboys are involved. :)

I like New England against Jacksonville. I think New England may have struggled with maintaining the same focus they had during the regular season the last two years. They did have a pretty tough schedule, and I just think Jacksonville has lived a charm life this season, fueled mostly by an opportunistic defense. I don't think that bodes well against a team like New England.

Pittsburgh and Cincinnati would seem like the most competitive matchup. I think I'm rooting for a Pittsburgh win in part because I like Bill Cowher and in part because I think Pittsburgh/Indy New England/Denver would be a nice tune up for a New England/Indy AFC title game. Who wants to see New England and Indy in the divisional playoffs, other than the Bengals? ;)

There was an item in The KC Star today that the AFC is an early 10-point favorite over the NFC in the Super Bowl. I tend to agree. I think the wild card teams in the AFC are on par or superior to the entire NFC playoff lineup, Seattle and Chicago included.

I think my worst fear would be a Chicago/Jacksonville Super Bowl. That thing wouldn't get out of single digits. One of the punters would end up as MVP.

[Philliesfan980]

Wait, how does Cleveland draft ahead of the Eagles. The defending NFC champions had an easier schedule than Cleveland?

[Solecismic]

Draft Order: If St. Louis beats Dallas

1. Houston 2-14
2. New Orleans 3-13
3. Tennessee 4-12
4. New York Jets 4-12
5. Green Bay 4-12
6/7. San Francisco 4-12 (subject to coin flip)
6/7. Oakland 4-12 (subject to coin flip)
8. Buffalo 5-11
9. Detroit 5-11
10. Arizona 5-11
11. St. Louis 6-10
12. Cleveland 6-10
13. Baltimore 6-10
14. Philadelphia 6-10
15. Atlanta 8-8
16. Miami 9-7
17. Minnesota 9-7
18. Dallas 9-7
19. San Diego 9-7
20. Kansas City 10-6

(subject to Super Bowl result)
21. New England 10-6
22. Washington 10-6
23. Carolina 11-5
24. Tampa Bay 11-5
25. Chicago 11-5
26. Cincinnati 11-5
27. New York Giants 11-5
28. Pittsburgh 11-5
29. Jacksonville 12-4
30. Seattle 13-3
31. Denver 13-3
32. Indianapolis 14-2

[JeeberD]

Wait, how does Cleveland draft ahead of the Eagles. The defending NFC champions had an easier schedule than Cleveland?

Nope. The team with the easier schedule gets the higher (better) draft pick.

[kcchief19]

Well, this sets up some of the crazier Chiefs fans for the Larry Johnson to Houston for Reggie Bush trade. It's a poorly guarded secret that Johnson thinks the fans and the team have treated him poorly. Some media here in town have reported that Johnson would likely hold out next year if Vermeil came back for another season, which is in the background of Vermeil's "retirement" announcement.

Personally, I think it's crazy, but the problem is that some people think that the way Johnson has been treated by the team, media and fans make it likely that he will hold out next year and then bolt for FA after next season. Certainly the Chiefs could franchise him, but that creates its own salary cap issues. Unless everybody kisses and makes up next year -- which definitely won't happen if Priest Holmes comes back -- I don't think Johnson will sign another contract with Kansas City; he seems to want to leave.

You could definitely make the argument that a know commodity in Johnson would be worth a hand in the Bush, so to speak. Like I said, I think it's crazy and will never happen for the same reason you rarely see trades involving NFL players in their prime, but it would definitely create some discussion.

[Axxon]

Washington at Tampa Bay bores me, mostly because I don't really care for either team. The Redskins certainly seem to have momentum on their side. Carolina and the Giants is a snoozer too. I guess I don't care about the NFC unless the Cowboys are involved. :)



Momentum doesn't really worry me about them but they do have a score to settle in their mind from the last game and that worries me a bit. I'd say momentum is pretty much in Tampa Bay too.

Except for the Patriots blow out, which was the last game of a very rare three game road swing which had them beating Carolina for the lead in the South the Bucs are 6-1 since Simms blew his first two starts. So, they're six and two to end the season including beating two playoff teams and yes one of them was Washington.

During the same stretch the Skins are 5-3 including beating two playoff teams.

I know you don't like the NFC but I thought I'd bring it up since absolutely everyone outside of Tampa ignores the Bucs and don't consider them for real. :)

[Bad-example]

I enjoyed watching 49ers-Texans. Neither team showed any signs of tanking the game. They played hard all 5 quarters. Nice running by Frank Gore. Snyder and Baas finished the year strong. I think it is pretty clear that Nolan has them moving in the right direction.

[Dutch]

Washington at Tampa Bay bores me...

History would suggest I watch this game even if I'm not a Bucs fan. Especially if the last game was any indication.

Tampa Bay 36, Washington 35
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20051113027

Scoring Summary WAS - TB
1st Quarter
7:59 TB TD Mike Alstott rushed up the middle for 2 yard gain (Matt Bryant made PAT) 0 - 7
http://www.buccaneers.com/media/photos/misc/111305_ALSTOTT01_t.jpg

4:18 WAS FG John Hall kicked a 33-yard field goal 3 - 7

2nd Quarter
8:34 TB TD Mike Alstott rushed to the left for 1 yard gain (Matt Bryant made PAT) 3 - 14
http://www.buccaneers.com/media/photos/misc/111305_ALSTOTT21_t.jpg

7:52 WAS TD TB kicked off, Ladell Betts returned kickoff for 94 yards (John Hall made PAT) 10 - 14

5:57 TB TD Chris Simms passed to Joey Galloway to the right for 24 yard gain (Matt Bryant made PAT) 10 - 21
http://www.buccaneers.com/media/photos/misc/111305_GALLOWAY21_t.jpg


1:45 WAS FG John Hall kicked a 40-yard field goal 13 - 21

3rd Quarter
14:05 WAS TD Mark Brunell passed to Mike Sellers to the right for 7 yard gain (2pt attempt converted, Mark Brunell pass to Clinton Portis) 21 - 21

5:33 WAS TD Mark Brunell passed to Ladell Betts to the right for 17 yard gain (John Hall made PAT) 28 - 21

2:46 TB TD Chris Simms passed to Ike Hilliard to the right for 4 yard gain (Matt Bryant made PAT) 28 - 28
http://www.buccaneers.com/media/photos/misc/111305_HILLIARD31_t.jpg

4th Quarter
9:08 WAS TD Clinton Portis rushed to the right for 8 yard gain (John Hall made PAT) 35 - 28

1:05 TB TD Chris Simms passed to Edell Shepherd to the right for 30 yard gain (2pt attempt converted, Mike Alstott run up the middle) 35 - 36
http://www.buccaneers.com/media/photos/misc/111305_SHEPHERD41_t.jpg

Followed by a blocked PAT + Redskins penalty and then the 2-pt conversion to win the game outright.
http://www.buccaneers.com/media/photos/misc/111305_ALSTOTT31_t.jpg

Go Bucs!

[Solecismic]

Wait, how does Cleveland draft ahead of the Eagles. The defending NFC champions had an easier schedule than Cleveland?

Actually, the Eagles played the seventh-toughest schedule in the league (and that would move up if Dallas wins). Remember to count in-division games twice.

[cthomer5000]

Has Jerome Bettis announced that he's going to retire after this year?

[jackyl]

So I'm in my pay-league FFL Championship and my team is up 166-164 with each of us having one player in the Dallas-St Louis night game. I have Issac Bruce and the other guy has Torry Holt.

I've never had a league come down to the wire in this fashion. Anybody going through anything similar?

[Axxon]

History would suggest I watch this game even if I'm not a Bucs fan. Especially if the last game was any indication.

Tampa Bay 36, Washington 35
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20051113027

Scoring Summary WAS - TB
1st Quarter
7:59 TB TD Mike Alstott rushed up the middle for 2 yard gain (Matt Bryant made PAT) 0 - 7
http://www.buccaneers.com/media/photos/misc/111305_ALSTOTT01_t.jpg

4:18 WAS FG John Hall kicked a 33-yard field goal 3 - 7

2nd Quarter
8:34 TB TD Mike Alstott rushed to the left for 1 yard gain (Matt Bryant made PAT) 3 - 14
http://www.buccaneers.com/media/photos/misc/111305_ALSTOTT21_t.jpg

7:52 WAS TD TB kicked off, Ladell Betts returned kickoff for 94 yards (John Hall made PAT) 10 - 14

5:57 TB TD Chris Simms passed to Joey Galloway to the right for 24 yard gain (Matt Bryant made PAT) 10 - 21
http://www.buccaneers.com/media/photos/misc/111305_GALLOWAY21_t.jpg


1:45 WAS FG John Hall kicked a 40-yard field goal 13 - 21

3rd Quarter
14:05 WAS TD Mark Brunell passed to Mike Sellers to the right for 7 yard gain (2pt attempt converted, Mark Brunell pass to Clinton Portis) 21 - 21

5:33 WAS TD Mark Brunell passed to Ladell Betts to the right for 17 yard gain (John Hall made PAT) 28 - 21

2:46 TB TD Chris Simms passed to Ike Hilliard to the right for 4 yard gain (Matt Bryant made PAT) 28 - 28
http://www.buccaneers.com/media/photos/misc/111305_HILLIARD31_t.jpg

4th Quarter
9:08 WAS TD Clinton Portis rushed to the right for 8 yard gain (John Hall made PAT) 35 - 28

1:05 TB TD Chris Simms passed to Edell Shepherd to the right for 30 yard gain (2pt attempt converted, Mike Alstott run up the middle) 35 - 36
http://www.buccaneers.com/media/photos/misc/111305_SHEPHERD41_t.jpg

Followed by a blocked PAT + Redskins penalty and then the 2-pt conversion to win the game outright.
http://www.buccaneers.com/media/photos/misc/111305_ALSTOTT31_t.jpg

Go Bucs!

Nice. :D

BTW, Terry Bradshaw just called the Tampa Bay/Washington game the game to watch next weekend. :)

[stevew]

Has Jerome Bettis announced that he's going to retire after this year?

No, but he's due about 5 million in base salary next year, and he's getting up there in age. And he's also suggested that it will be his last year in training camp.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Draft Order: If St. Louis beats Dallas

1. Houston 2-14
2. New Orleans 3-13
3. Tennessee 4-12
4. New York Jets 4-12
5. Green Bay 4-12
6/7. San Francisco 4-12 (subject to coin flip)
6/7. Oakland 4-12 (subject to coin flip)
8. Buffalo 5-11
9. Detroit 5-11
10. Arizona 5-11
11. St. Louis 6-10
12. Cleveland 6-10
13. Baltimore 6-10
14. Philadelphia 6-10
15. Atlanta 8-8
16. Miami 9-7
17. Minnesota 9-7
18. Dallas 9-7
19. San Diego 9-7
20. Kansas City 10-6

(subject to Super Bowl result)
21. New England 10-6
22. Washington 10-6
23. Carolina 11-5
24. Tampa Bay 11-5
25. Chicago 11-5
26. Cincinnati 11-5
27. New York Giants 11-5
28. Pittsburgh 11-5
29. Jacksonville 12-4
30. Seattle 13-3
31. Denver 13-3
32. Indianapolis 14-2
Go Rams.

[Axxon]

No, but he's due about 5 million in base salary next year, and he's getting up there in age. And he's also suggested that it will be his last year in training camp.

I hope he doesn't since I really like him but I saw a segment with him on NFL network and he looked ready to hang em up. He talked about how long it takes him to even be able to walk on mondays ( he needed leg treatments before he got out of bed ) and how he didn't even get to practice until thursdays. He looked tired man.

Now, going deep into the playoffs can reenergize you but if the steelers dump him I can't see him playing just to be playing. He's got nothing else to prove.

[Senator]

sigh* oh well. Always next year.

[TazFTW]

Tice is out.

[Galaril]

Nice the Titans get the 3rd pick. I am guessing the Texans take Bush and NO take Leinart. So, Tennessee who do they take? Vince Young to replace a past prime Steve Mcnair. It would be great for a guy like young to study under a guy like McNair for a couple of years and the Titans Offensive Coordinator is Norman Chow from the USC Trojans before last season. O r they could pick the top Off.Tackle Fergusson or hope that Leinart is still around at 3.Which I doubt. Ithink there is a slight chnace the texans pass up Bush btu very small.

[JeeberD]

No more Primetime? Why is ESPN cancelling its best show?

[Philliesfan980]

Nope. The team with the easier schedule gets the higher (better) draft pick.

Gotcha. When I heard it was "Strength of schedule" I just figured that the team with the harder schedule and worse record would get to move up, but I guess that doesn't make sense from an "equity" perspective.

[Philliesfan980]

No more Primetime? Why is ESPN cancelling its best show?

I think CBS bought out the rights to show highlights starting next year. I think ESPN can start showing them after Monday Night Football. Kinda sketchy though, this deal was a while ago.

[cthomer5000]

No more Primetime? Why is ESPN cancelling its best show?
It isn't by choice. It's part of the new agreement that gives NBC the Sunday Night game... I believe they have exclusive rights on highlights or some nonsense for that day. I'm fuzzy on the details, but I remember the announcement that MNF would no longer be on ABC also containted the details that spelled out the death of Primetime.

[JeeberD]

Ah, that's right. I had forgotten about that stupid deal... :(

[Pumpy Tudors]

Just to clarify, NBC will have exclusive rights to NFL highlights until midnight on Sunday night/Monday morning. Perhaps ESPN will try to do something similar to "NFL Primetime" after "SportsCenter" on Sunday nights, but it obviously won't be the same. Everybody will have already seen the highlights by the time ESPN can show them.

I wonder what effect this is going to have on "SportsCenter." I mean, I don't even watch that show anymore, but I wonder what they're going to show until midnight. I guess it'll be MLB highlights early in the NFL season and then NBA/NHL highlights late in the NFL season. Still, it's going to be really strange on the first Sunday of the NFL season that the show won't be able to lead with the NFL highlights. Also, what will this do to ESPNews on NFL Sundays? They'll talk all about a whole bunch of games that they can't show highlights of.

It's going to be really weird next season.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Ohbytheway, the blue pants on the Rams are sexy.

[Philliesfan980]

The NFL is really screwing us (alright this is already totally off topic!!!)

Is the NFL turning into Communism?

[JeeberD]

Is the NFL turning into Communism?


Isn't the highlight deal the height of capitalism? They're essentially selling the video rights to the highest bidder. The old system was closer to communism than the new, upcoming system...

[Philliesfan980]

Isn't the highlight deal the height of capitalism? They're essentially selling the video rights to the highest bidder. The old system was closer to communism than the new, upcoming system...

I suppose you're right. However, between this and the Madden deal, they are really limiting our choices as a consumer.

[Axxon]

The NFL is really screwing us (alright this is already totally off topic!!!)

Is the NFL turning into Communism?

The irony of the parenthetical statement is funny but what the heck, I agree with you on your real point so... good point. :)

[Philliesfan980]

Don't forget the DirectTV deal.

[Axxon]

Isn't the highlight deal the height of capitalism? They're essentially selling the video rights to the highest bidder. The old system was closer to communism than the new, upcoming system...

Correct about the misuse of terms but the NFL is very much limiting the exposure of the common fan to the product and in the end I'm not so sure it's such a good idea. Accessability is a pretty huge part of the popularity of sports.

Now, the NFL is the best game in town but that may not always last forever. Let them hit a down period, say a strike and see how much good will the people they've screwed over will still have for them when they come back.

[Axxon]

Don't forget the DirectTV deal.

That's the one that pisses me off. I live in a building that won't let me get satellite signal so I can't get DirectTV. :)

[Philliesfan980]

DirecTV doesn't have ComcastSportsNet (philly), so no Phillies games for me = no DirecTV.

However, I don't see another sport, strike or not, beating the NFL anytime soon. The league is run really well, and I like most aspects of it, and love how they handle contracts.

[Philliesfan980]

Dola, I'm just following the game via gamecast, is Steven Jackson hurt this week? Nice to see Faulk getting some carries either way, I hope he hangs it up after this year. It's a shame to see him struggle through these past two years, compared to how dominant he was during 97 - 03 (or there abouts).

[Axxon]

DirecTV doesn't have ComcastSportsNet (philly), so no Phillies games for me = no DirecTV.

However, I don't see another sport, strike or not, beating the NFL anytime soon. The league is run really well, and I like most aspects of it, and love how they handle contracts.

No, don't get me wrong. I don't think any other sport beats them soon but they may well find their revenue streams tightened up a great bit. They'll still be fine and it'll be a good product but I can see that the short term money that they get from exclusivity might bite them in the butt if they alienate the casual fans.

Those are the ones who won't be seeing the games since they're not on and won't be following the league if there's no shows on tv showing it. It's not inconceivable that these fans could become apathetic if there's a strike and not jump back on bandwagons right away.

That's what happened in baseball and they survived but it took a bite. I was in the exact same boat with baseball. I was a casual fan, had no home team to root for and simply didn't miss them when they were gone nor did I really take up the hobby after they came back.

It wasn't until the last few years that I have become even a bit interested in the league was when Lou Piniella came to the Devil Rays and I thought maybe I could follow them because they were from my hometown. I'm not saying my money is something that really damaged baseball but it's money that they would have had otherwise.

[stevew]

I wish that I could get sunday ticket from the Cable company. I'd gladly have paid for it when I lived outside the Steelers market. But I dont want to have to mess around with direct tv just for that package.

[Pumpy Tudors]

When the new season starts soon, I'm going to start an Arena Football thread each week. I've never had a thread to myself before, and I'm really looking forward to it. Thanks for the inspiration, guys!

[Philliesfan980]

Sounds good. I have an Arena team around me in Philly, but I don't know anything about them.

Can you drop me a few names (college stars, or former nfl players) who are in the arena league? I know that Giovanni (QB of LA I believe) used to backup down in ATL, but other than that I'm pretty clueless.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Sounds good. I have an Arena team around me in Philly, but I don't know anything about them.

Can you drop me a few names (college stars, or former nfl players) who are in the arena league? I know that Giovanni (QB of LA I believe) used to backup down in ATL, but other than that I'm pretty clueless.
In general, the quarterbacks are the stars of the league (no surprise there). John Dutton from Colorado, Mark Grieb from San Jose, Aaron Garcia from New York, and Tony Graziani of Philadelphia are among the best. If you're looking for former NFL players, you'll usually find them at receiver, but they were never NFL household names. Marcus Nash, Aaron Bailey, and Travis McGriff (whose career may be over after essentially quitting on his team last year) all have some NFL experience, but they didn't shine until they got to the AFL.

I can tell you that you've got a great quarterback out there. Graziani has been described as the Peyton Manning of the AFL, and I agree. He sees the whole field and is incredibly accurate. He almost never makes a bad play. As long as one of the rookie receivers develops, Graziani should have another wonderful season. The Soul was disappointing last season, but the defense should be pretty good, so they're just one more receiver away from being a playoff contender.

I don't know how close you are to the arena, but if you get a chance to go to a game, DO IT. The rules are a little complex, but they don't affect the fans' enjoyment of the game. You don't need to know what an illegal defense is or when substitutes can come in. Just sit back, enjoy the show, and try to catch a football if it gets thrown or kicked into the stands.

Once the rosters get set (the teams are in training camp now), I'll have a better handle on who's playing this year and who's not. After that, I can really tell you who to watch for. Just for kicks, I'd like to add that Philadelphia has Tommy Maddox's AFL rights, although there's obviously no chance that he'll ever play there. :)

[Axxon]

That intentional grounding call against the Rams is one of the worst calls I've ever seen.

[kcchief19]

Washington at Tampa Bay bores me, mostly because I don't really care for either team.History would suggest I watch this game even if I'm not a Bucs fan. Especially if the last game was any indication.
Make sure you quote the whole line next time, big guy. ;)

Washington and Tampa Bay could play a 72-71 thriller with the game-tying TD coming on the final play of the game involving 21 laterals with the winning point scored by a Chris Simms drop kick and I still wouldn't care. I just don't care for either team.

That said, I'll take the under BIG TIME on the rematch not having the same firepower. I don't think either side has it in them.

[Axxon]

Make sure you quote the whole line next time, big guy. ;)

Washington and Tampa Bay could play a 72-71 thriller with the game-tying TD coming on the final play of the game involving 21 laterals with the winning point scored by a Chris Simms drop kick and I still wouldn't care. I just don't care for either team.



May not work for you but I'd sure take it. :D

[Dutch]

Make sure you quote the whole line next time, big guy. ;)

Sorry, you just came off sounding a bit bitter and I wanted to rub it in. :)

[TazFTW]

Looks like the Cowboys are going to move up two spots in the draft.

[biological warrior]

Bah! Another turnover by Bledsoe! Seriously How many games has this guy cost his team(s) throughout the years?

[Senator]

Good. Moving up in the draft is the first thing to go right today for the Cowboys.

[Solecismic]

Draft Order for 2006

1. Houston 2-14
2. New Orleans 3-13
3. Tennessee 4-12
4. New York Jets 4-12
5. Green Bay 4-12
6/7. San Francisco 4-12 (subject to coin flip)
6/7. Oakland 4-12 (subject to coin flip)
8. Buffalo 5-11
9. Detroit 5-11
10. Arizona 5-11
11. St. Louis 6-10
12. Cleveland 6-10
13. Baltimore 6-10
14. Philadelphia 6-10
15. Atlanta 8-8
16. Miami 9-7
17. Minnesota 9-7
18. Dallas 9-7
19. San Diego 9-7
20. Kansas City 10-6

(Super Bowl teams are automatically placed at 31 and 32, teams with the same record are first separated by how far they go in the playoffs)

21. New England 10-6
22. Washington 10-6
23. Carolina 11-5
24. Tampa Bay 11-5
25. Chicago 11-5
26. Cincinnati 11-5
27/28. New York Giants 11-5
27/28. Pittsburgh 11-5
29. Jacksonville 12-4
30. Seattle 13-3
31. Denver 13-3
32. Indianapolis 14-2


Toughest Schedules (Total number of opponents' wins, not adjusted for record of team):

1. San Diego 143 - 113 .559
2. Oakland 138-118 .539
2. Washington 138-118 .539
2. San Francisco 138-118 .539
5. Houston 137-119 .535
6. Philadelphia 136-120 .531
6. Green Bay 136-120 .531
8. New York Jets 135-121 .527
9. Baltimore 134-122 .523
9. Dallas 134-122 .523
9. New Orleans 134-122 .523
12. Tennessee 131-125 .512
13. New England 130-126 .508
13. Cleveland 130-126 .508
13. Arizona 130-126 .508
16. Kansas City 129-127 .504
16. Detroit 129-127 .504
18. Buffalo 128-128 .500
18. Denver 128-128 .500
20. Pittsburgh 126-130 .492
20. New York Giants 126-130 .492
20. Atlanta 126-130 .492
23. Minnesota 124-132 .484
23. St. Louiis 124-132 .484
25. Cincinnati 122-134 .477
26. Jacksonville 119-137 .465
27. Miami 117-139 .457
27. Indianapolis 117-139 .457
27. Chicago 117-139 .457
30. Carolina 115-141 .449
30. Tampa Bay 115-141 .449
32. Seattle 110-146 .430

[Hurst2112]

I wonder...

What team has had the toughest schedule to make it to a SB? Seeing Jims list, I noticed that NE is just above .500 and is the team that has the toughest schedule.

Anywhere to see the history of this?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Everybody will have already seen the highlights by the time ESPN can show them.

I'm not so sure about that.

If anybody is capable of making something border on unwatchable, it's NBC Sports.

[ISiddiqui]

I wonder...

What team has had the toughest schedule to make it to a SB? Seeing Jims list, I noticed that NE is just above .500 and is the team that has the toughest schedule.

Anywhere to see the history of this?Actually Washington, who also has a chance, is far higher (see #2) :)

[Rizon]

I wonder...

What team has had the toughest schedule to make it to a SB? Seeing Jims list, I noticed that NE is just above .500 and is the team that has the toughest schedule.

Anywhere to see the history of this?

7 of the bottom 8 teams are playoff teams. I'd be interested how this works in ALL sports. Whenever I go back and look at stats/scores/etc, it seems like the players or teams seem to achieve their greatness against some really shitty opponents.

[Tekneek]

Correct about the misuse of terms but the NFL is very much limiting the exposure of the common fan to the product and in the end I'm not so sure it's such a good idea. Accessability is a pretty huge part of the popularity of sports.

Putting a highlights show on NBC, usually a free over-the-air station in most cities, is actually making it more available to the common person than sticking it on cable was. Now you will only need a TV and antenna, instead of a cable/satellite subscription.

[Tekneek]

That's the one that pisses me off. I live in a building that won't let me get satellite signal so I can't get DirectTV. :)

They can't legally prevent you if you have a clear view of the appropriate direction (by order of the FCC).

[SackAttack]

Putting a highlights show on NBC, usually a free over-the-air station in most cities, is actually making it more available to the common person than sticking it on cable was. Now you will only need a TV and antenna, instead of a cable/satellite subscription.

But at the same time, by making a move like that, aren't you moving the show away from its core demographic?

Who watches highlight shows?

1) "hardcore" fans who want to know what's going on around the league.

2) serious fantasy football owners (and by serious, I mean those in a pay league).

Both of which are already a key part of ESPN's demographic. The latter may migrate to NBC or whoever-the-fuck to get their highlights, but I'm not convinced the former will give a damn in the Internet age.

[TazFTW]

Watching Mike and Mike on the deuce and they mentioned that Brees will be having shoulder surgery that Chad Pennington went through. I think San Diego's interest in trading Philip Rivers just dropped immensely.

[cthomer5000]

7 of the bottom 8 teams are playoff teams. I'd be interested how this works in ALL sports. Whenever I go back and look at stats/scores/etc, it seems like the players or teams seem to achieve their greatness against some really shitty opponents.
Well, keep in mind these numbers are not adjusted for the team's record. Indy's schedule becomes weaker because they gave they their opponents 13 losses personally. If you want to judge a true SOS, you need to pull out the results the team was involved in.

[cthomer5000]

Adjusted SOS

1 SanDiego 136-104 0.567
2 Washington 132-108 0.550
3 Dallas 127-113 0.529
4 Oakland 126-114 0.525
4 SanFrancisco 126-114 0.525
4 Philadelphia 126-114 0.525
7 Denver 125-115 0.521
8 GreenBay 124-116 0.517
8 Baltimore 124-116 0.517
8 NewEngland 124-116 0.517
11 Houston 123-117 0.513
11 NyJets 123-117 0.513
11 KansasCity 123-117 0.513
14 NewOrleans 121-119 0.504
14 Pittsburgh 121-119 0.504
14 NyGiants 121-119 0.504
17 Cleveland 120-120 0.500
18 Tennessee 119-121 0.496
18 Arizona 119-121 0.496
20 Detroit 118-122 0.492
20 Atlanta 118-122 0.492
22 Buffalo 117-123 0.488
22 Minnesota 117-123 0.488
22 Cincinnati 117-123 0.488
25 Jacksonville 115-125 0.479
25 Indianapolis 115-125 0.479
27 St,Louis 114-126 0.475
28 Chicago 112-128 0.467
29 Miami 110-130 0.458
29 Carolina 110-130 0.458
29 TampaBay 110-130 0.458

[bhlloy]

That intentional grounding call against the Rams is one of the worst calls I've ever seen.

I taped the game last night and only just got round to watching it so I'm a bit late on this one, but I completely agree. The ball landed in the end zone and had the reciever not cut the route off it would have been right on target. And he got nailed as he was letting it go.

That was a call that should get whoever made it kicked out of the league. It cost the Rams three points as well which in a different situation could be crucial.

The flag was dropped ten seconds after the play as well. Just unbelievable.

[Hurst2112]

Actually Washington, who also has a chance, is far higher (see #2) :)

Funny, cause I was wrong. Thanks.

[Axxon]

I taped the game last night and only just got round to watching it so I'm a bit late on this one, but I completely agree. The ball landed in the end zone and had the reciever not cut the route off it would have been right on target. And he got nailed as he was letting it go.

That was a call that should get whoever made it kicked out of the league. It cost the Rams three points as well which in a different situation could be crucial.

The flag was dropped ten seconds after the play as well. Just unbelievable.

Agreed. I think the person making that call should be fired. That didn't look like a judgement thing. It looks deliberate and the way they flagged the Rams for arguing it only reinforces that thought. It looked like a zebra with an agenda and if they're going to have one, at least make it look semi real. :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just a little factoid for the Vick-haters.

1)70,262 - attendance for NFC playoff game vs SF in Jan '99 (SB year)
2)70,796 - attendance for yesterday's meaningless game vs Carolina

Said it before, I'll say it again -- Vick & what he might do on ay given play is more interesting to the fan base than anything the team does in the W/L department.

College football is life. Pro football is, at best, a little entertainment between Saturdays.
(the Atlanta fan take, not neccessarily mine entirely. I don't rank either one of them that highly)

[DeToxRox]

Just a little factoid for the Vick-haters.

1)70,262 - attendance for NFC playoff game vs SF in Jan '99 (SB year)
2)70,796 - attendance for yesterday's meaningless game vs Carolina

Said it before, I'll say it again -- Vick & what he might do on ay given play is more interesting to the fan base than anything the team does in the W/L department.

College football is life. Pro football is, at best, a little entertainment between Saturdays.
(the Atlanta fan take, not neccessarily mine entirely. I don't rank either one of them that highly)

Lions sold out out the 80,000 + seat Silverdome with Ron Rivers and Greg Hill in quite a few meaningless games.

It's football, people love it, it's not the Mike Vick lovefest.

[Ben E Lou]

It's football, people love itYou don't know this part of the country. The Falcons would routinely draw under 60,000 for meaningless games pre-Vick. People would not go to games here.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola...

<table border="1" cellpadding="8"> <tbody><tr><th>Team</th><th>Year</th><th>G</th><th>Total</th><th>Average</th></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1983</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">333,359</td><td align="right">41,670</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1984</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">312,351</td><td align="right">39,044</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1985</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">272,133</td><td align="right">34,017</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1986</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">389,922</td><td align="right">48,740</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1987</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">189,815</td><td align="right">23,727</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1988</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">267,813</td><td align="right">33,477</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1989</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">320,551</td><td align="right">40,069</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1990</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">394,853</td><td align="right">49,357</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1991</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">400,931</td><td align="right">50,116</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1992</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">553,979</td><td align="right">69,247</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1993</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">456,537</td><td align="right">57,067</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1994</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">458,509</td><td align="right">57,314</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1995</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">419,105</td><td align="right">52,388</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1996</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">335,638</td><td align="right">41,955</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1997</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">375,427</td><td align="right">46,928</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1998</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">457,477</td><td align="right">57,185</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1999</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">458,627</td><td align="right">57,328</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">2000</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">420,303</td><td align="right">52,538</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">2001</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">422,732</td><td align="right">52,842</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">2002</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">540,171</td><td align="right">67,521</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">2003</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">563,676</td><td align="right">70,460</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">2004</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">564,829</td><td align="right">70,603</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Note the 10,000 more people per game when Vick took over as starter in 2002 versus the Super Bowl year in 1998. I guess I should edit my comment above to "The Falcons would routinely draw under 60,000 to meaningful games pre-Vick. Now they draw over 70,000 for meaningless games."

[Axxon]

Dola...

<table border="1" cellpadding="8"> <tbody><tr><th>Team</th><th>Year</th><th>G</th><th>Total</th><th>Average</th></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1983</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">333,359</td><td align="right">41,670</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1984</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">312,351</td><td align="right">39,044</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1985</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">272,133</td><td align="right">34,017</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1986</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">389,922</td><td align="right">48,740</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1987</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">189,815</td><td align="right">23,727</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1988</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">267,813</td><td align="right">33,477</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1989</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">320,551</td><td align="right">40,069</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1990</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">394,853</td><td align="right">49,357</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1991</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">400,931</td><td align="right">50,116</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1992</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">553,979</td><td align="right">69,247</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1993</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">456,537</td><td align="right">57,067</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1994</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">458,509</td><td align="right">57,314</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1995</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">419,105</td><td align="right">52,388</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1996</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">335,638</td><td align="right">41,955</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1997</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">375,427</td><td align="right">46,928</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1998</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">457,477</td><td align="right">57,185</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">1999</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">458,627</td><td align="right">57,328</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">2000</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">420,303</td><td align="right">52,538</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">2001</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">422,732</td><td align="right">52,842</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">2002</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">540,171</td><td align="right">67,521</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">2003</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">563,676</td><td align="right">70,460</td></tr> <tr><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td align="right">2004</td><td align="right">8</td><td align="right">564,829</td><td align="right">70,603</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Note the 10,000 more people per game when Vick took over as starter in 2002 versus the Super Bowl year in 1998. I guess I should edit my comment above to "The Falcons would routinely draw under 60,000 to meaningful games pre-Vick. Now they draw over 70,000 for meaningless games."

I don't think that's even mostly Vick though. I watch the games to see Mora Jr when he finally blows up on national tv. Come on, it's the NASCAR division, we only watch for the car wrecks. Same difference here. :D

[Bad-example]

The Falcons might draw better in general if they could manage back-to-back winning seasons.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's football, people love it, it's not the Mike Vick lovefest.

Actually, you're kinda right. On Sunday, it's football (lower-case l)
What they play on Saturday is FOOTBALL.

Again, I'm not defending it/attacking it or in between, I'm just telling you how it is down here. "f" is a way to pass the time, and being entertained is what matters most, and what Vick does entertains more people than wins in games few people truly care about. "F" is a way of life, and winning surpasses all else.

I mean, damn, very few people gave much more than a passing damn when the Falcons went to the Super Bowl, how many do you think really care if they go 8-8 or 9-7 or 7-9? But if Vick busts off one of those 50 yard horizontal / 25 yard vertical runs it gets talked about for two weeks minimum.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't think that's even mostly Vick though. I watch the games to see Mora Jr when he finally blows up on national tv. Come on, it's the NASCAR division, we only watch for the car wrecks. Same difference here. :D

Ax, I doubt 10% of Atlantas could name Jim Mora (jr) by name, I doubt less than 1/3rd would be able to match him, Bob Hartley, and Mike Woodson to their respective teams if you gave them a two-column list & asked them to draw lines to the proper pairing. More than that could tell you which roman numeral of UGA (the mascot) is currently working in Athens.

[Axxon]

Ax, I doubt 10% of Atlantas could name Jim Mora (jr) by name, I doubt less than 1/3rd would be able to match him, Bob Hartley, and Mike Woodson to their respective teams if you gave them a two-column list & asked them to draw lines to the proper pairing. More than that could tell you which roman numeral of UGA (the mascot) is currently working in Athens.

I don't know about that. The Official Falcons Forum has 1,110,641 replies in it's main forum while Buccaneers.com, their official site has 1,169,046 replies. A very, very unscientific post but IMHO it shows there's rather a lot of Falcon's football fans talking Falcons football to me. I'm sure those guys know who Jim Mora ( jr ) is because it was there that I learned that junior, as you know isn't a junior at all. :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

A very, very unscientific post but IMHO it shows there's rather a lot of Falcon's football fans talking Falcons football to me.

Or it shows that there's a small number of Falcon fans who have waaaaay too much time on their hands.

Hell, I talk about them on here & I give only slightly more than a flying fuck about them. And I'd sooner have dental work without painkiller than ever endure another Falcons game in person at the Georgia Dome. (Worst.Place.To. Watch.Football.EVER.)

[Axxon]

Or it shows that there's a small number of Falcon fans who have waaaaay too much time on their hands.

Hell, I talk about them on here & I give only slightly more than a flying fuck about them. And I'd sooner have dental work without painkiller than ever endure another Falcons game in person at the Georgia Dome. (Worst.Place.To. Watch.Football.EVER.)

They'd have to have a heck of a lot of time on their hands to generate that traffic. FOFC is only showing 313,120 replies to put it into perspective. There's a lot of fans talking no matter what. How they compare as a percentage of the population I have no clue but I think your numbers have to be off even though I know what you're saying and you're not wrong, just overstating. :)

[Dutch]

I don't normally do this, but I'm gonna give the people who actually live in Georgia the benefit of the doubt on this one.

[GrantDawg]

They'd have to have a heck of a lot of time on their hands to generate that traffic. FOFC is only showing 313,120 replies to put it into perspective. There's a lot of fans talking no matter what. How they compare as a percentage of the population I have no clue but I think your numbers have to be off even though I know what you're saying and you're not wrong, just overstating. :)

He is overstating, but correct. Just by your example proves the difference post-Vick. Before Vick, you'd be lucky to find any active Falcons messageboard.

[Axxon]

He is overstating, but correct. Just by your example proves the difference post-Vick. Before Vick, you'd be lucky to find any active Falcons messageboard.

What's funny though it that board, and another falcon board I read absolutely hate and bash Michael Vick and blame everything that's wrong in Atlanta on the guy. It's laughable. He'd get blamed for the other team scoring a touchdown on offense. I mean it makes sense, without his salary they could have bought a CB that doesn't suck, things like that. :)

[GrantDawg]

What's funny though it that board, and another falcon board I read absolutely hate and bash Michael Vick and blame everything that's wrong in Atlanta on the guy. It's laughable. He'd get blamed for the other team scoring a touchdown on offense. I mean it makes sense, without his salary they could have bought a CB that doesn't suck, things like that. :)
I know a guy who gave up season tickets after Vick was signed because he thought he sucked. Of course, for every fan they lost because of Vick, they have picked up ten. The Falcons have gone from one of the lowest season ticket sellers to having waiting list. Vick is 80% of that (Blank being the other 20%).

[Axxon]

I know a guy who gave up season tickets after Vick was signed because he thought he sucked. Of course, for every fan they lost because of Vick, they have picked up ten. The Falcons have gone from one of the lowest season ticket sellers to having waiting list. Vick is 80% of that (Blank being the other 20%).

The scary thing is that those ten drop as soon as Vick goes and that one likely doesn't just come back at that point. Of course, I'm a huge football fan and I could never see giving up my seasons tickets if I had them just because I didn't like a current player on the team.

That actually is a more telling statement about the Atlanta fan base than what Jon said if you think about it.

[GrantDawg]

The scary thing is that those ten drop as soon as Vick goes and that one likely doesn't just come back at that point. Of course, I'm a huge football fan and I could never see giving up my seasons tickets if I had them just because I didn't like a current player on the team.

That actually is a more telling statement about the Atlanta fan base than what Jon said if you think about it.
Me neither, but I'm one of the few Die-hard Falcon's fans. I love 'em when they stink and love 'em when they are good. They have never been great, so I'm still waiting on that. :)

[Axxon]

Me neither, but I'm one of the few Die-hard Falcon's fans. I love 'em when they stink and love 'em when they are good. They have never been great, so I'm still waiting on that. :)

Ahh, the one thing we've got over the rest of the NASCAR division, for one season we indeed were great. :D

[SackAttack]

True that I'm a bit biased but the really galling thing is that the cochairman of the NFL competetion committe would break an NFL rule in order to get an unfair advantage in a game. If a person can't be bothered to follow the rules then they shouldn't be on a rules committee IMHO.

That makes it much more enjoyable watching their implosion today. The team deserves nothing more than ridicule when they can't win out even with McKay's influence which allows them to blatantly cheat even when it doesn't help them.

You got your wish...kinda.

Sorta.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/football/nfl/01/05/bc.fbn.mora.fine.ap/index.html

(I suspect Joe Horn is in your camp on this one.)