What team should the Big 10 add?

[Kodos]

It seems like 12 teams is the way to go. I'd say Notre Dame, but they obviously will never join because their collective ego wouldn't fit in the league. So who should we get instead?

And what should the Big 10 be renamed?

[Anthony]

i wish they'd get the St. John's University Red Storm, cuz it sucks playing college football games without my alma mater.

[st.cronin]

Temple

[vtbub]

ND or Pitt

[Honolulu_Blue]

ND or Pitt
Yes. These are the only logical choices I think.

[scooper]

What about West Virginia?

[WSUCougar]

Pitt, WV, or Louisville.

Or how about Iowa State?

[Samdari]

Yes. These are the only logical choices I think.

BC is logical for the ACC?

[Honolulu_Blue]

BC is logical for the ACC?
Who mentioned BC or the ACC? We're talking Big 10 here.

[Blade6119]

TCU

[WSUCougar]

And would it still be called the "Big 10" despite having twelve teams? I mean, 11 is one thing, but 12...

[ScottVib]

Missouri

[ScottVib]

I've heard that Big Ten bylaws state any added team must come from a stat currently connected to the rest of the league, leaving these options as states of origin:

North Dakota
South Dakota
Nebraska
Missouri
Iowa
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Illinois
Kentucky
Indiana
Michigan
Ohio
West Virginia
Pennsylvania
New Jersey
Delaware
Maryland
New York

[st.cronin]

Why isn't this a poll? MORE POLLS, KODOS!!!!!!

[vtbub]

BC is logical for the ACC?Yeah. They are on the Atlantic Coast and Boston is a Top Ten TV market. Money is logicial.

[Kodos]

Why isn't this a poll? MORE POLLS, KODOS!!!!!!

Too open-ended for a poll. I've started 2 others today. That should be enough! ;)

[Klinglerware]

None.

I don't see too many schools that the Big 10 could add that would not dilute the overall product. Remember, the Big 10 is also an academic consortium. So not only must an invited school be a strong revenue sport performer plus be in an adjacent state to the current geographical footprint, it must also fit the academic profile of the Big 10 membership (i.e., it must have strong graduate school/academic research programs).

Notre Dame makes the most sense athletically, and has a strong undergraduate reputation. One issue against ND is that ND's graduate offerings are not as extensive as other Big 10 schools (though, since ND apparently has a standing offer, the Big 10 has already overlooked this). It is also very unlikely that ND will budge as long as it can keep it's TV contract and favorable position in the BCS alliance as an independent.

Missouri and Rutgers seem to be the schools that most fit the Big 10 research factory ideal (though Rutgers' academic reputation has slid a bit since the 90s). However, athletic performance has traditionally been shaky...

[Samdari]

Who mentioned BC or the ACC? We're talking Big 10 here.

I am merely pointing out that we need not only consider candidates that make sense - as other conferences have illustrated in the past.

[vex]

Pitt. or WV.

[cartman]

Back before the formation of the Big 12, there was talk of Texas moving to the Big 10. So I don't think the bordering state bylaw is set in stone.

[dawgfan]

Back before the formation of the Big 12, there was talk of Texas moving to the Big 10. So I don't think the bordering state bylaw is set in stone.
Really? I remember some talk many years ago of the Pac-10 expanding and discussing adding Texas and Colorado, but I don't remember hearing Texas in connection with the Big-10.

[Swaggs]

I would guess that Notre Dame, Missouri, and Pittsburgh would be the top 3 choices, but realistically, only Notre Dame would be worth it for them.

At a certain point, adding teams doesn't necessarily add money to a conference and you have to balance whether adding a conference championship game (and its payout) are worth splitting the pie with another team. I have read that the ACC teams last season with 11 teams, made less per team than they did the year before when they had 9 teams. I haven't seen any figures on what adding BC as its 12th team and holding the ACC title game have done for them this year.

I had been hoping that the Big East would go to a 12-team conference, so that they could also have a championship, but the more I think about it, the only real benefit for a conference like the BE to add a team would be to weaken other conferences so they have less of a claim on that 6th BCS spot.

[Klinglerware]

I had been hoping that the Big East would go to a 12-team conference, so that they could also have a championship, but the more I think about it, the only real benefit for a conference like the BE to add a team would be to weaken other conferences so they have less of a claim on that 6th BCS spot.

Not only that, but it wouldn't hurt the BE to add a ninth-member since it would balance the conference schedule (4 home & 4 way), plus make OOC scheduling easier when they go to 12 game schedules.

Pitt might make sense for the Big 10 (though I've heard grumblings about academic stature being an impediment), but probably won't score an invite so long as JoePa wields influence at PSU--I think that his attitude is that it isn't in PSU's interests to cultivate an in-state rival (it would hurt recruiting, etc).

[korme]

Add Ohio U. They have a good rep academically and have been ok in the MAC, in a few years they would get better recruits if they were to join the Big 10

[Solecismic]

I've looked at this from many angles over the last few years. The Big Ten is only going to accept what's considered a "national" university, meaning it can draw from all over the country. It also has academic minimum standards, which does eliminate a few good schools. Any school not in the top 100 academically just won't be considered. I know that's snobby, but that's just the way they see it and it's not going to change.

And then there are geographic considerations, which means a school that's otherwise perfect (Virginia, for example, which would never consider leaving the ACC anyway) wouldn't be a good choice.

There are only five candidates:

1. Notre Dame. The obvious choice. They'd be an asset academically. They draw nationally on television, yet are centrally located within the conference. They've been offered a spot many times, but are convinced they'd lose money on the deal. They already have several established rivalries within the conference.

2. Pittsburgh. Another excellent academic institution. It would strengthen a major media market and increase the conference profile in the east. It would be a built-in rival for Penn State. On the negative side, travel from the western members of the conference would get a little obnoxious. For anything other than the major sports, you'd have to alter schedules to account for a Penn State/Pitt road trip.

The other three schools are from the Big 12, and are long shots for an invitation solely because there's little reason for them to consider switching, and it isn't a good idea to start a bidding war between top conferences (what the ACC did was only possible because the Big East just wasn't strong enough, top-to-bottom, in football).

3. Iowa State. Just a great university and a built-in rival for Iowa and the rest of the western schools. I could see this happening, but only if the Big 12 already had a replacement of similar caliber and wanted to expand westward (like Colorado State).

4. Missouri. Brings in the KC and St. Louis media markets. This would be very difficult to justify from a travel perspective, and I don't see it even being explored without touching off a conference war.

5. Nebraska. Might as well rip the heart out of the Big 12. This isn't going to happen.

[Samdari]

Pittsburgh. It would strengthen a major media market

Where?

[Desnudo]

I think the question should be, who do they boot to get back to an actual 10 team conference?

[Neuqua]

The Northern Illinois University!

[Kodos]

I think the question should be, who do they boot to get back to an actual 10 team conference?

Minnesota.

[dacman]

There has been 1 university that has:

1) Been discussed quite a bit in inner B10 circles (I have an inside source).

2) Is a fit geographically.

3) Seems to be very receptive to joining the B10 (a significant factor after the ND thing--Pitt seems to have reservations).

4) Has the B10 membership considerably receptive to having them join.

5) Is a decent (though still less than ideal) academic fit.

No one has mention them yet.

[Mr. Wednesday]

1. Notre Dame. The obvious choice. They'd be an asset academically. They draw nationally on television, yet are centrally located within the conference. They've been offered a spot many times, but are convinced they'd lose money on the deal. They already have several established rivalries within the conference. Football-wise, it will never make sense for ND to join any conference until and unless they can do better from the conference TV deal than they can on their own. I'd think it would take either a whopping conference TV deal or ND getting major special treatment for that to happen.

When you take football out of the equation, you have to convince the Irish to leave the Big East, which is actually an excellent fit for us in terms of institutional character -- a number of modest-sized Catholic universities. We've more in common with the Big East than with the Big Televen there, as Northwestern is currently the only private school in that conference, the rest are state megaschools. (I'm not sure how much we have in common athletically, though, outside of basketball -- we're big fish in a small pond in e.g. women's soccer and women's volleyball, but I don't really follow most sports well enough to know where or how well power is concentrated in particular conferences.)

[Klinglerware]

I think the question should be, who do they boot to get back to an actual 10 team conference?

Each school in the conference brings something to the table in either Football or Basketball. A testament to just how strong from top to bottom the Big Ten really is...

[Mr. Wednesday]

I think the question should be, who do they boot to get back to an actual 10 team conference? The smallest school (and the only private one) in the conference -- Northwestern.

Edit: Not a serious suggestion, but they're the only school that doesn't seem to fit in with the rest in the conference. Even considering that, NU has been solid in football of late, so it's hard to suggest they're not pulling their weight.

[st.cronin]

I thought Purdue was a private university?

[dacman]

I thought Purdue was a private university?
You thought wrong. Common mistake, though.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Nope. Purdue is the other major Indiana state university. It's a land grant school. Note that there are a couple of joint IU/PU campuses in the state, in Indianapolis and Fort Wayne.

[albionmoonlight]

There has been 1 university that has:

1) Been discussed quite a bit in inner B10 circles (I have an inside source).

2) Is a fit geographically.

3) Seems to be very receptive to joining the B10 (a significant factor after the ND thing--Pitt seems to have reservations).

4) Has the B10 membership considerably receptive to having them join.

5) Is a decent (though still less than ideal) academic fit.

No one has mention them yet.
Who are they?

[cartman]

There has been 1 university that has:

1) Been discussed quite a bit in inner B10 circles (I have an inside source).

2) Is a fit geographically.

3) Seems to be very receptive to joining the B10 (a significant factor after the ND thing--Pitt seems to have reservations).

4) Has the B10 membership considerably receptive to having them join.

5) Is a decent (though still less than ideal) academic fit.

No one has mention them yet.

Louisville?

[Solecismic]

There has been 1 university that has:

1) Been discussed quite a bit in inner B10 circles (I have an inside source).

2) Is a fit geographically.

3) Seems to be very receptive to joining the B10 (a significant factor after the ND thing--Pitt seems to have reservations).

4) Has the B10 membership considerably receptive to having them join.

5) Is a decent (though still less than ideal) academic fit.

No one has mention them yet.

Cincinnati? I didn't mention them because of the academic question, but it would make sense.

[dacman]

cartman's the winner.

[Solecismic]

Where?

Zanesville, Ohio, of course. It may be the nation's smallest independent media market, but it has the pulse of America, and that's what this is all about.

[Swaggs]

Zanesville, Ohio, of course. It may be the nation's smallest independent media market, but it has the pulse of America, and that's what this is all about.

I think the point is that Pittsburgh brings little in the way of media market that Penn State does not already provide the Big 10.

[Daimyo]

Supposedly there were rumors of NU getting dropped from the Big Ten back before we made the Rose Bowl 10 years back. Since then we've done pretty well in football and have actually become somewhat respectable in basketball enough that we don't need to rely purely on academics to stick around. We don't really fit with the rest of the schools, but being middle of the road athletically and top tier academically should be enough to keep us around I'd hope.

[Honolulu_Blue]

There has been 1 university that has:

1) Been discussed quite a bit in inner B10 circles (I have an inside source).

2) Is a fit geographically.

3) Seems to be very receptive to joining the B10 (a significant factor after the ND thing--Pitt seems to have reservations).

4) Has the B10 membership considerably receptive to having them join.

5) Is a decent (though still less than ideal) academic fit.

No one has mention them yet.
Go back and read post #7 of this thread.

[Solecismic]

I think the point is that Pittsburgh brings little in the way of media market that Penn State does not already provide the Big 10.

That's why I used the word strengthen rather than bring in. State College is more part of the Harrisburg market, though it's really just a central location for the entire state.

Pitt and Penn State are more than twice as far apart as Michigan and Michigan State. It makes sense geographically.

Coug mentioned Louisville first, which is why I didn't guess that. They're a solid choice from a strength of program perspective. But, again, academically, I don't see it happening unless the Big Ten makes a shift. Which is not to endorse that policy, just to look at the hard numbers.

To look at the MAC from a a policy of abandoning the non-consideration of regional colleges, Miami (of Ohio) and Ohio U. are considered by far the strongest academic institutions. Miami would even be an asset by that measure. They are just too small - it would take too long to bring them up to competition level.

[Swaggs]

Does anyone have figures on how much money a conference championship brings in?

[kcchief19]

Missouri was in serious negotiations about joining the Big 10 back around 1994 when the Big XII was being formed. I was on campus in school there at the time, and the scuttlebutt was the administration and academic side were all for it but the athletic department was on the fence.

Eventually, talks apparently broke down because Missouri's administration couldn't make certain financial guarantees to the Big 10 regarding athletic budgets and amazingly enough academic research. It's a little known fact, but the Big 10 schools are tied together more than just athletically -- they share research tools and resources and expect each member university to main certain levels of funding for certain types of research. What exactly that is I don't know.

Notre Dame makes the most sense, but it will never happen. Notre Dame won't join in a conference in football -- there is simply too much money at stake. I have no doubt that Notre Dame would jump at the chance of joining the Big 10 for every sport but football.

Since no conference alignment decisions are now made without TV markets in consideration, I think the only choices that make remote sense are Pittsburgh and Missouri. Missouri brings both Kansas City and St. Louis, where Pitt just enhances the Pittsburgh market. Iowa State doesn't bring a thing the Big 10 doesn't already have.

I don't know if Missouri would even be interested. I think there is a certain sense of satisfaction with where they are at. I'm not a Big 10 fan and I wasn't in favor of going to the Big 10 back in 1994, but I would be now. On a local level, it would actually hurt Kansas City financially because were are currently getting the Big XII title game every year or two and will likely be the every other year host at minimum of the Big XII basketball tourney. We wouldn't get that in the Big 10.

[Klinglerware]

Eventually, talks apparently broke down because Missouri's administration couldn't make certain financial guarantees to the Big 10 regarding athletic budgets and amazingly enough academic research. It's a little known fact, but the Big 10 schools are tied together more than just athletically -- they share research tools and resources and expect each member university to main certain levels of funding for certain types of research.

Yes, a school's ability to contribute resources to the Big 10s academic consortium is a important consideration for membership. Interestingly enough, if Notre Dame ever were to join the Big 10, it would be the only school that is not a member of the AAU (Association of American Universities)--another consortium of major research universities. That is the only weakness of ND in the eyes of the Big 10--the focus on undergraduates and the relative weakness of graduate and professional programs does limit ND's research resources and will make it difficult for ND to participate in reciprocal resource sharing with other Big 10 schools.

[Galaxy]

Would be cool if University of Buffalo could upgrade it facilities, and make a run at the Big Ten.

[Neuqua]

They haven't done anything in the MAC even yet.

[dacman]

Go back and read post #7 of this thread.
D'oh! :o

[HerRealName]

Does anyone have figures on how much money a conference championship brings in?

Not much at all - generously like 6 to 7 million. These conference championship games are not the financial windfall that many think. Divide that money across 12 schools and it really isn't a signifigant amount of money to the big programs.

Just for comparison, Ohio State makes something like 3.5 to 4 million every home game. I'd guess Michigan and Penn State are only slightly lower than that.

There's just no reason to add a 12th school not named Notre Dame.

[hoosierdude]

I would love to see Kentucky leave the SEC and join. Not sure on the academia side, but athletically it would make for a very interesting conference. Their football isn't very good, more like a Illinois, Indiana, and Minnesota type now, but the basketball is of course at the top.

Better fit than some of the schools most are touting. Cincinnati has a lot of issues to work out now that they have a new coach. Cincinnati would be a perennial battler for the bottom with the Illini and Hoosiers in football.

I don't see them going east any farther than they have now. Maybe to the west ....Unless they could bring Nebraska or Iowa State over.

[Dekanth]

There has been 1 university that has:

1) Been discussed quite a bit in inner B10 circles (I have an inside source).

2) Is a fit geographically.

3) Seems to be very receptive to joining the B10 (a significant factor after the ND thing--Pitt seems to have reservations).

4) Has the B10 membership considerably receptive to having them join.

5) Is a decent (though still less than ideal) academic fit.

No one has mention them yet.


I'm not sure if this is the school you are talking about, but I thought it was pretty common knowledge that Syracuse and the Big 10 have had some friendly talks in recent years (pre-dating the ACC raid of the Big East). From my understanding, Notre Dame is #1 while Syracuse and Missouri are #2 and #2a.

Without question Syracuse would jump at the opportunity. The school would then give the Big 10 a presence in New York. Distance is reasonable, academics are good, and tradition in football and basketball is excellent (despite a horrendous football season this past year).

[tarcone]

no school will leave the big 12 to join the big 10
screw ND and their snobby attitude, pitt is too far east
lets delve into the southeast and pick up Memphis it would open a whole new market for the big 10
good basketball, would be good football and its not in a decent conference

[st.cronin]

Is the Big 10 looking to expand, or is all this just for fun?

[Solecismic]

no school will leave the big 12 to join the big 10
screw ND and their snobby attitude, pitt is too far east
lets delve into the southeast and pick up Memphis it would open a whole new market for the big 10
good basketball, would be good football and its not in a decent conference

Syracuse I can understand. Memphis, while it has potential from a sports perspective, is well below even Cincinnati and Louisville from an academic perspective. Again, just hard numbers, I'm not trying to insult anyone or any place.

Notre Dame's successful season was the worst thing that could have happened. I was glad to see OSU pound them pretty good yesterday, and this from someone raised to enjoy seeing Buckeye nuts crushed. Another 5-6 season, and I could see Notre Dame's resolve weakening considerably as they stare at declining television ratings.

[Buccaneer]

Jim, I am puzzled by two of your statements relating to travel costs. Why would you say Pittsburgh would be hard to travel to when 1) it's a lot easier to travel there than to State College and 2) OSU is closer to Pitt than it is to Ann Arbor? Second, how could you say that Columbia, Missouri would be difficult to justify for travel when it's probably easier to travel there than to Champaign and probably Ames?

[Solecismic]

Jim, I am puzzled by two of your statements relating to travel costs. Why would you say Pittsburgh would be hard to travel to when 1) it's a lot easier to travel there than to State College and 2) OSU is closer to Pitt than it is to Ann Arbor? Second, how could you say that Columbia, Missouri would be difficult to justify for travel when it's probably easier to travel there than to Champaign and probably Ames?

1) It's an extreme trip for Iowa, Minnesota and Wisconsin.

2) It's an extreme trip for Penn State, Michigan and Michigan State.

These are not deal-breakers, just considerations for the conference. They affect the minor sports far more than football. I'm sure the Boston College athletic department just loves receiving the bill when the softball team travels to Miami (assuming both schools have varsity softball teams).

[tarcone]

The travel issue is a big deal. football and basketball cant continue to carry the load
so i think ND would be it. too bad they own NBC and their BB team is in the big east
i like syracuse much better then pitt

[ScottVib]

Big East threadjack

I had been hoping that the Big East would go to a 12-team conference, so that they could also have a championship, but the more I think about it, the only real benefit for a conference like the BE to add a team would be to weaken other conferences so they have less of a claim on that 6th BCS spot.


've always believed that in the case of the Big East this would be a mistake (no matter how much the folks on other Big East related message boards taught the virtues of going to 12). Who is available that would actually pay for a full share or increase the revenues of the conference enough to pay for 4 additional teams?

Easy answer: Short of the pipedream teams for the Big East (Notre Dame or a sudden Penn State reversal); no one.


The Big East football side when it splits, should add exactly one team simply for scheduling purposes. By guarenteeing 4 home games for each team each year the 9th team "pays for its membership" no matter how much the TV dollars change or don't change.

But to expect that a championship game or TV deal would pay enough in added revenue to keep the current level of shares in the conference for the current 8, 1 added for scheduling and 3 more just to get to a championship game is in my opinion foolish. What is a network going to pony up a lot of money to show a Big East title game at noon on championship Saturday, or maybe during the week? It's just not going to happen.

So you add one, and stand pat, remember that $15 million dollar only gets split 8 or 9 ways in the Big East and is divided smaller everywhere else.

[Daimyo]

I'd love to see Syracuse... even more so than Notre Dame.

[Swaggs]

Big East threadjack




've always believed that in the case of the Big East this would be a mistake (no matter how much the folks on other Big East related message boards taught the virtues of going to 12). Who is available that would actually pay for a full share or increase the revenues of the conference enough to pay for 4 additional teams?

Easy answer: Short of the pipedream teams for the Big East (Notre Dame or a sudden Penn State reversal); no one.


The Big East football side when it splits, should add exactly one team simply for scheduling purposes. By guarenteeing 4 home games for each team each year the 9th team "pays for its membership" no matter how much the TV dollars change or don't change.

But to expect that a championship game or TV deal would pay enough in added revenue to keep the current level of shares in the conference for the current 8, 1 added for scheduling and 3 more just to get to a championship game is in my opinion foolish. What is a network going to pony up a lot of money to show a Big East title game at noon on championship Saturday, or maybe during the week? It's just not going to happen.

So you add one, and stand pat, remember that $15 million dollar only gets split 8 or 9 ways in the Big East and is divided smaller everywhere else.

I agree with you. The fact that the BE offers a 1 in 8 chance at a BCS bid and major bowl is one of the few recruiting pluses we have. Looking at the ACC (particularly this season), it has essentially become two six-team conferences, with the winners playing for the BCS bid. And with its current breakdown, it looks as if the best two teams will often not play for the BCS bid, which is unfortunate.

As for the Big East expansion after the split, I hope that the football schools keep ND on their side and add another team, so that the football side is 9 teams so that they have a balanced schedule and then we can keep some of the more attractive bowl ties we have and the basketball schedule can have 9 home/9 away each season. ND might prefer to stick with the Catholic schools, though.

[WSUCougar]

Syracuse's awful season probably didn't help their chances...

[General Mike]

It will be Rutgers before its Syracuse.

[Galaxy]

They haven't done anything in the MAC even yet.

I know, but if they can turn the football program around, and invest in the facilities to make them competitive with the Big Ten, I think they could be a solid addition. The hoops program is among the best in the MAC this season, and the academics are top-notch, and gives an entry to New York and the northeast.

[tarcone]

Buffalo is the worst D1 college in america to recruit too. who in their right mind would go to buffalo to play football? i cant see any florida, texas or california players saying to themselves " Buffalo is so beautiful in the winter. I think i want to leave 9-12 months of sun and warm weather for 9 months of winter.....ahhhhh"
Buffalo will never be anything in football

[RendeR]

I know, but if they can turn the football program around, and invest in the facilities to make them competitive with the Big Ten, I think they could be a solid addition. The hoops program is among the best in the MAC this season, and the academics are top-notch, and gives an entry to New York and the northeast.
This will never happen, the reason being that UB is just another SUNY school, and the State university of New York system is damn near bankrupt thanks to Pataki and his cronies.

As it is UB will manage to stay in Div-I and play mediocre football. If they somehow gut the state's stance on education and New York dumps a few Billion into the SUNY system (too many schools to count, so to really get ANY amount worthwhile they'd need billions overall) its just not going to happen.

[Logan]

I know, but if they can turn the football program around, and invest in the facilities to make them competitive with the Big Ten, I think they could be a solid addition. The hoops program is among the best in the MAC this season, and the academics are top-notch, and gives an entry to New York and the northeast.

Sorry, but Buffalo isn't in New York.

[RendeR]

Buffalo is the worst D1 college in america to recruit too. who in their right mind would go to buffalo to play football? i cant see any florida, texas or california players saying to themselves " Buffalo is so beautiful in the winter. I think i want to leave 9-12 months of sun and warm weather for 9 months of winter.....ahhhhh"
Buffalo will never be anything in footballNot sure why you say this, there are plenty of schols with far worse weather in the northeast. Syracuse being one of them. Then look at the recruiting job being done by BC and Connecticut, another two schools with utterly shit weather to play in for 9 months.

UB has no credibility at this point to get decent recuits, that really is their only problem. Location is actually a positive, for the right player(s). Its also a solid school academicly which can be a very important draw for recruits (yeah I know, not usually, but I can hope)

Either way, the money situation at UB will keep them a bottom feeder for decades to come.

[RendeR]

NYC isn't considered a part of New York.Fixed that for you.

[Galaxy]

This will never happen, the reason being that UB is just another SUNY school, and the State university of New York system is damn near bankrupt thanks to Pataki and his cronies.

As it is UB will manage to stay in Div-I and play mediocre football. If they somehow gut the state's stance on education and New York dumps a few Billion into the SUNY system (too many schools to count, so to really get ANY amount worthwhile they'd need billions overall) its just not going to happen.

I agree with you on our state's crappy financial situation thanks to our idoitic politicians (not just statewide, but damn counties and towns (Erie County is a fine example). And they wonder why people (like me after I graduate) don't want to stay here.

[Galaxy]

Not sure why you say this, there are plenty of schols with far worse weather in the northeast. Syracuse being one of them. Then look at the recruiting job being done by BC and Connecticut, another two schools with utterly shit weather to play in for 9 months.

UB has no credibility at this point to get decent recuits, that really is their only problem. Location is actually a positive, for the right player(s). Its also a solid school academicly which can be a very important draw for recruits (yeah I know, not usually, but I can hope)

Either way, the money situation at UB will keep them a bottom feeder for decades to come.


Better then I can put it. That weather doesn't seem to hurt Penn State, Boston College, Michigan, Ohio State, ect. Weather doesn't matter to most recruits if you have a good program. As you noted, money to invest in the facilities and coaching will keep UB down. As Buffalo not being in New York, sorry, New York City isn't the center of the universe.

[Kodos]

As much as I hate them, ND is the only team I would enthusiatically welcome into the Big 10. They're just a natural fit.

[Klinglerware]

As much as I hate them, ND is the only team I would enthusiatically welcome into the Big 10. They're just a natural fit.

I would think that ND is waiting to see if the Big East splits. ND has proven in spite of everything that their football program can thrive fiscally without a conference affiliation. Football independence coupled with a basketball/non-revenue conference of traditional catholic basketball powers (St. Johns, Villanova, Georgetown, etc) is probably more attractive to ND than all-sport inclusion in the Big 10...

[scooper]

I would think that ND is waiting to see if the Big East splits. ND has proven in spite of everything that their football program can thrive fiscally without a conference affiliation. Football independence coupled with a basketball/non-revenue conference of traditional catholic basketball powers (St. Johns, Villanova, Georgetown, etc) is probably more attractive to ND than all-sport inclusion in the Big 10...
There were rumors of such a conference before the Big East made its post-pillaging decisions on which teams to add. If the Big East were ever to split the football from the non-football, this conference could work out well.

ND, Georgetown, Villanova, St. Johns, Marquette, DePaul, Xavier, Dayton would not be a horrible non-football conference. But it's nowhere near as strong as a basketball conference including the likes of UCONN, Pitt and Louisville.

[Wolfpack]

As Buffalo not being in New York, sorry, New York City isn't the center of the universe.

I don't know. I gathered from the news last week that the transit strike would likely have destroyed the world economy and plunged everyone into the dark ages.

[RendeR]

I don't know. I gathered from the news last week that the transit strike would likely have destroyed the world economy and plunged everyone into the dark ages.
This is because the residents of the urban sprawl known as NYC believe the world ends at the Hudson.

There is life OUTSIDE the city, and its a helluva lot more pleasant ;)

[Toddzilla]

What about Missouri out of the Big 12?

[Butter]

ND, Georgetown, Villanova, St. Johns, Marquette, DePaul, Xavier, Dayton would not be a horrible non-football conference. But it's nowhere near as strong as a basketball conference including the likes of UCONN, Pitt and Louisville.

As a UD fan, I was pulling so hard for the "Catholic League" possibilities being talked about a while back when all this switching was going on. But yet, here we are, still stuck in the A-14 with so many crappy programs. I have a feeling that Charlotte, St. Louis, Xavier, Dayton, St. Joe's, Temple, UMass, GW and maybe Richmond and/or URI will eventually break away from the league and form a serious basketball conference to stop giving money to the drain schools like Fordham, Duquesne, and St. Bonaventure. Dayton's 11,000+ per game attendance just can't be ignored... and hopefully within 2-4 years, they will have a serious basketball program that will have them recognized nationally on a consistent basis.

[Galaxy]

Dayton is a Catholic University? Never knew that.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dayton is a Catholic University? Never knew that. Same here. Interesting.

They need a better band... the band that came to the NCAA volleyball at ND got an A+ for enthusiasm and a D- for quality.

[wangster]

How about Toledo? They've owned the MAC.

[Butter]

Same here. Interesting.

They need a better band... the band that came to the NCAA volleyball at ND got an A+ for enthusiasm and a D- for quality.

They almost pulled that game out too... took ND to 5 sets anyway.

I get all cocky and talk about Fordham as a crappy A-10 school, then they go out and beat my Flyers by 10 last night... :mad: :mad: :mad: