"Serenity (aka "Firefly" the movie)" on DVD.

[WrongWay]

Stole the title from this thread.
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=38411&highlight=serenity

Anyway, what the hell hapened with Serenity's DVD sales? The movie came out on DVD last week and only managed to place 25th for its opening week with a grand total of 1.6m in DVD sales.

I was expecting Serenity with all its Sci-Fi fans to hit the #1 position for DVD sales in its opening week. Even bad Sci-Fi movies seem to do well on the DVD market. I wonder what happened.



Week ending Dec 25th.

[st.cronin]

I think the movie wasn't that good. The show was much better.

[WrongWay]

http://www.imdb.com/boxoffice/rentals

1. New Four Brothers (2005) 5 $8.79M $8.8M Buy
2. New Must Love Dogs (2005) 5 $7.96M $8M Buy
3. New The Exorcism of Emily Rose (2005) 5 $7.14M $7.1M Buy
4. 1 The 40 Year Old Virgin (2005) 12 $6.74M $14.9M Buy
5. 2 Mr. & Mrs. Smith (2005) 26 $6.1M $36.9M Buy
6. 4 Cinderella Man (2005) 19 $5.69M $21.5M Buy
7. 6 The Island (2005) 12 $5.53M $12.2M Buy
8. 3 Fantastic Four (2005) 19 $5.14M $22.4M Buy
9. New Rebound (2005) 5 $5M $5M Buy
10. 5 The Dukes of Hazzard (2005) 19 $4.42M $20.1M Buy
11. 9 Deuce Bigalow: European Gigolo (2005) 26 $4.41M $26.5M Buy
12. New The Brothers Grimm (2005) 5 $4.22M $4.2M Buy
13. 7 Bad News Bears (2005) 12 $3.99M $10.2M Buy
14. 10 The Polar Express (2004) 33 $3.78M $39.2M Buy
15. 8 War of the Worlds (2005) 33 $3.68M $46M Buy
16. 11 Marche de l'empereur, La (2005) 26 $3.44M $21M Buy
17. 12 Roll Bounce (2005) 12 $3.35M $7.4M Buy
18. 15 Christmas with the Kranks (2004) 47 $2.78M $40.4M Buy
19. 13 Stealth (2005) 40 $2.32M $39.8M Buy
20. 13 Sky High (2005) 26 $2.3M $16.2M Buy
21. 17 Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (2005) 47 $2.08M $52.4M Buy
21. 16 The Skeleton Key (2005) 40 $2.08M $30.3M Buy
23. 19 The Honeymooners (2005) 33 $2M $19.1M Buy
24. 18 Madagascar (2005) 40 $1.72M $25M Buy
25. New Serenity (2005) 5 $1.64M $1.6M Buy

[Bonegavel]

I don't get it. This is my most favorite tv show of all time... am I that out of touch with quality?

I agree it wasn't the best movie out there, but I am hungry for any story involving this group of characters and this setting.

**shrugs**

[ISiddiqui]

There weren't as many fans as the fanboys wanted to believe. The movie didn't do so well in ticket sales, so why would it do well in DVD sales? I don't think the Firefly DVDs did all that well... and of course we know that that the show was canned for low ratings.

There are a number of people who act like its the best thing since sliced bread, but people just didn't go for it.

[Bonegavel]

those are rental figures. I think the sales figures are better.

[Jesse_Ewiak]

FWIW, Serenity is #3 on Amazon among all DVD's with Firefly being #4.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Stole the title from this thread.
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=38411&highlight=serenity

Anyway, what the hell hapened with Serenity's DVD sales? The movie came out on DVD last week and only managed to place 25th for its opening week with a grand total of 1.6m in DVD sales.

I was expecting Serenity with all its Sci-Fi fans to hit the #1 position for DVD sales in its opening week. Even bad Sci-Fi movies seem to do well on the DVD market. I wonder what happened.



Week ending Dec 25th.
Hmm... Let's check your numbers and sources.

According to this site:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/charts/home_video/first_alert.jsp

Serenity at #6 in sales.

I think that 25th place figure is for rentals and not sales. Indeed it is...

http://www.imdb.com/boxoffice/rentals

Rentals are close to meaningless now of days. Almost all DVD money is made off of sales.

You rarely fail live up to your FOFC handle. That's something, I guess.

[WrongWay]

Sorry guys those are rental numbers.

I just always use the IMDB site to fill my Netflix Que and was shocked to see Serenity open at 25th.

[mauchow]

I was gonna say...

Even my little brother wanted this DVD for Christmas and he had never heard of the TV Series. Of course I told him all about it.

[Honolulu_Blue]

There weren't as many fans as the fanboys wanted to believe. The movie didn't do so well in ticket sales, so why would it do well in DVD sales? I don't think the Firefly DVDs did all that well... and of course we know that that the show was canned for low ratings.

There are a number of people who act like its the best thing since sliced bread, but people just didn't go for it.
Firefly DVDs did do all that well. In fact, years later, they are still doing that well. As of September 2005, about 500,000 DVDs had been sold. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefly_%28television_series%29). I am no industry expert, but that seems like quite a bit to me.

It was a great show and, no, people didn't go for it, because they were too busy watching "American Idol", "The Bachelor", and "Dance With The Stars". What's popular and what's good are often quite different. The poor ratings were also not helped by the fact Fox refused to air the episodes in order and kept moving it's time and day around.

The movie did very poorly in ticket sales, which, while disappointing to its fan, isn't too surprising. The movie had zero star power and the special effect weren't all that special. Those kind of sci-fi movies just don't have that much appeal to the average joe. I know plenty of people who would have enjoyed the movie, friends who like sci-fi/fantasy/action moives, but just didn't go see it.

The movie was good, not great, but good. The show was better.

It's doing much better on DVD than it did at the theater.

That is all.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Dola.

Also, it's been proven time and time again thatISiddiqui is like as slightly less insane "Bubba Wheels" when it comes to sci-fi movies/television series. http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

For pretty much everything else, my man is right on.

Heh, nobody's perfect.

[Joe]

the movie was horrible. anyone who bought it was insane.

[ISiddiqui]

Firefly fans point to Family Guy as a show with strong DVD sales that came back. For comparison, Family Guy some 2.2 million DVDs in its first year. Half a mil is a decent amount in 2 years, but nothing special.

[mauchow]

the movie was horrible. anyone who bought it was insane.
Huh?

[Travis]

Yeah, the fact Firefly was cancelled because Fox aired it horribly out of order and screwed with it's timeslot meant that the show itself was flawed, not the network running it.

Give me a break. It may not be the best show of all time, but the biggest problems with it were network execs deciding they knew how to promote it better than Whedon.

And count me among the insane that bought the DVD. Also pre-count my other personalities as insane as well as I'll buy any future special edition that comes out in the future as well. I quite enjoyed the series and the movie and have no problem in supporting it with my hard earned dollar.

[RendeR]

the movie was horrible. anyone who bought it was insane.

yet further proof that our esteemed (or is it steamed?) president is an idiot.....



Excellent movie, great storyline in general, I'll be owning the series and film as soon as I can afford them.

[Joe]

yeah

[Fouts]

I just watched Serenity and enjoyed it very much. Then again, I am a sucker for sci-fi movies. Going to look for the Firefly DVD to see where this all started.

[Honolulu_Blue]

the movie was horrible. anyone who bought it was insane.
Some motherfucker is always trying to ice skate up hill.

[astrosfan64]

Serenity Rocked and River is a badass.

[Calis]

The boxed set of Firefly is still #4 in DVD sales at Amazon, which means it's doing pretty well.

#3? Serenity.

And yes, the movie was good, very good even. Shame it did so poorly, but it had to be expected. I do think DVD sales are going well though and will continue. Hell, the series is still selling very well, so that's good.

[mauchow]

Yeah, the series was Out of Stock on walmart.com

They had a 19.99 price tag on it and I was trying to hit it! But like i said, out of stock and no 'raincheck' option.

The price is back up to 35.

[sabotai]

When I went to Best Buy to get it a week or so back, they were sold out. It is high on the sales list, but I wonder if it would be even higher if stores stocked more. I had to order from Amazon.

[Crapshoot]

Yeah, the fact Firefly was cancelled because Fox aired it horribly out of order and screwed with it's timeslot meant that the show itself was flawed, not the network running it.

Give me a break. It may not be the best show of all time, but the biggest problems with it were network execs deciding they knew how to promote it better than Whedon.

And count me among the insane that bought the DVD. Also pre-count my other personalities as insane as well as I'll buy any future special edition that comes out in the future as well. I quite enjoyed the series and the movie and have no problem in supporting it with my hard earned dollar.


Ditto. One of the best shows on TV I can ever recall. Better than the reality shit du jour that caters to the Bubba's of the world.

[mauchow]

Damn it! I missed the 19.95 sale Walmart.com had on the DVD TV Series... Bummer...

[mauchow]

Damn it! I missed the 19.95 sale Walmart.com had on the DVD TV Series... Bummer...
holy crapsters. I already said this once in this thread....

no wonder i suck at taking tests.. i can't remember shit

[Bonegavel]

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?id=34083

nothing earth shattering. but I believe this to be new.

[WrongWay]

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?id=34083

nothing earth shattering. but I believe this to be new.
Funny they don't seem to mention anything about airing season 1 on the Sci-Fi channel?

I think the huge numbers that Family Guy was putting up on Adult Swim had something to do with Fox bringing it back.


WOW. the article said Serenity only made $25 million at the box office. Why would a TV network want anything to do with a movie that ended up in the red?

[Havok]

Funny they don't seem to mention anything about airing season 1 on the Sci-Fi channel?

I think the huge numbers that Family Guy was putting up on Adult Swim had something to do with Fox bringing it back.


WOW. the article said Serenity only made $25 million at the box office. Why would a TV network want anything to do with a movie that ended up in the red?


it made 25 milion in america... i think it just about broke even worldwide(40 million). Now after the dvd sales.... it will make plenty of profit.

[Crapshoot]

Here's hoping for the best- though it works a lot better as a TV show, IMO.

[Shkspr]

Business Rule #73: If your business decision perplexes WrongWay, run with it. :)

Seriously, the fanaticism of the Browncoats means that Whedon can ink in 1.5 million-2 million sales on any mass market release of a Firefly-themed product. That isn't enough to knock Harry Potter or Star Wars off their perch, but it's enough to make bank on. Joss needs to contact Pocket Books about producing a line of original Firefly novels to keep the fanbase stoked and keep a revenue stream coming in.

[BrianD]

Business Rule #73: If your business decision perplexes WrongWay, run with it. :)

Seriously, the fanaticism of the Browncoats means that Whedon can ink in 1.5 million-2 million sales on any mass market release of a Firefly-themed product. That isn't enough to knock Harry Potter or Star Wars off their perch, but it's enough to make bank on. Joss needs to contact Pocket Books about producing a line of original Firefly novels to keep the fanbase stoked and keep a revenue stream coming in.

It looks like there probably isn't enough money/interest in bringing the show back to a major network, but I wonder if there would be enough for a cable network like the SciFi channel? It would seem like the smallish fanbase would be loyal enough to follow it anywhere.

[WrongWay]

it made 25 milion in america... i think it just about broke even worldwide(40 million). Now after the dvd sales.... it will make plenty of profit.
Yes, it cost about 40 million to make, but you are also going to have to add post production costs of Advertising, financing, distribution, and etc to your end cost. I am guessing the total break even mark of around 70 million for this movie.

[Havok]

Yes, it cost about 40 million to make, but you are also going to have to add post production costs of Advertising, financing, distribution, and etc to your end cost. I am guessing the total break even mark of around 70 million for this movie.


i thought the 40 million dollar budget was for all of that?

[Calis]

i thought the 40 million dollar budget was for all of that?

I'd always heard 39 million for production only, so no it doesn't.

On average though from what I read movies spend about 25-30 million on advertising, etc... all those goodies, I would think Serenity was under the norm for that.

Who knows though, I think the best bet is for Joss to have a major blockbuster with Wonder Woman or something else, and use that clout to get a sequel greenlit, if he really wants to, which I gather he does.

[Jesse_Ewiak]

Serenity had about ten to fifteen million in adveritisng plus five million in other post-production costs (the actual film, stuff like that).

[Honolulu_Blue]

Some info on the possible future of "Firefly"

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=552 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>










<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=552 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Browncoats around the world cried out in despair when, due to an underwhelming performance at the box office, Joss Whedon announced that the saga of Serenity had ended. No sequels, no follow-ups, no hope. But Whedon isn't a man to let his brain-child die; the man's already resuscitated the franchise once and there's still hope for a third coming.

"A sequel's unlikely," Whedon told Empire with a note of clear regret, "but it's amazing what permutations of something can happen." But if not a theatrical encore, that leaves... yes, you guessed it, a possible return to the smaller screen. "As long as I was able to service the characters with integrity and had enough money so that I wasn't hampered, then I would love to return Serenity to TV. I love that universe; it continues and those characters live on. There could be a series, there could be a miniseries, there could be all sorts of things. I'm not ruling anything out. I'll let it simmer for a while and see if anyone calls."

As for why the film failed to rake in the cash despite uniformly glowing reviews, according to Whedon it's all in the presentation. "It's a question of marketing ultimately. The fact that I like to dance around genres with gay abandon has worked to my disadvantage. Nobody knows exactly how to market anything I do because it usually has so much in it. It has a diffuseness because of it's origin that keeps it from being the easy sell. Some people also said that you can't call an action movie 'Serenity' but I think that's still okay. What was I going to call it? 'Big Smash Bang With Boobies'? Which was, of course my second choice."

DVD sales should, however, put Serenity back in the black and when the bucks start rolling in we can only hope that one of the suits at Universal looks at the numbers, adds the success of the Firefly DVD box set and greenlights a return for Captain Reynolds and his crew. Until that time we advise Whedon to keep his phone switched on.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=17800



------------------------------------------------------------------

SCI FI.COM

12:00 AM, 10-JANUARY-06



Serenity Might Fly Again?

Loni Peristere, visual-effects supervisor for the SF movie Serenity, told SCI FI Wire that there's hope for future flights of the cast and crew of the movie, which just came out on DVD. Director Joss Whedon—who also created the canceled Fox TV show Firefly, on which the movie is based—expected that the movie might draw the low numbers it did in its theatrical release, Peristere said in an interview. But he added that the movie's sales on DVD, which came out on Dec. 20, are running neck-and-neck with the hit comedy Wedding Crashers, which bodes well for a possible Serenity sequel.

"We kind of expected this from our audience," Peristere said. "We did so well on [Amazon.com] with the Firefly box set and the performance of that helped us get the movie made. We wish the audience would get up and go to the theater, but it shows that they like to keep coming back and revisiting the world Joss created." Serenity made $25 million at the domestic box office after it was released Sept. 30.

Whedon and his crew are waiting to see how well the DVD numbers go before proceeding with a Serenity sequel, Peristere said. "We really hope to return to this work," he said. "We love the characters. It's fun storytelling, and we all love using our talents. ... It all depends on Joss. He's not giving up on the characters. He had incredible writers who had a million stories to tell, and we're all just hanging out and seeing what the world has to give us, and given the opportunity we'll make more."

In the meantime, fans of both show and movie can enjoy the DVD's various extras, which include an easter egg: a featurette about the making of the Fruity Oaty Bar commercial that appears in the film. "In the main menu, if you play around with the buttons you'll find a featurette of the Fruity Oaty Bar," Peristere revealed. (From the main menu highlight "play," then press left, which will highlight a marker on the right side of the menu; press enter to see the featurette.) "It's all a lot of fun," he said.



http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=34083&type=0


____________________________________________________________

[Bonegavel]

Big Smash Bang With Boobies

nice.

[Bonegavel]

They should seriously think about doing a direct to DVD series that is the fx quality of the t.v. show to make it economical.

It seems the show is a bit too expensive for television but not popular enough for theaters but there has to be a sweet spot where they can put out a quality show and make money at the same time (which is all that matters).

As for the show being hard to pin-down, I agree totally.

I know some here will agrue vehemently against what I'm about to say, but IMHO the show manages to be trailer trash and highbrow at the same time and this is one of the main reasons the show is so great.

However, it isn't trailer trash enough for the folks that want fights and blood all the time and it isn't highbrow enough for those that want dramatic whatnot.

The t.v. show had a TON of dialogue. Normally that is bad, but somehow whedon managed to make me yearn for the dialogue parts. I hated when they stoped talking and some action sequence would start up. The characters are so great you want them to be talking and only use action as a period or exclamation point at the end of the sentence.

Like I've said before, before Firefly I thought whedon was a tool because I despised Buffy the series. I still think he is a tool, but he struck a chord in me with the Firefly universe and it's a shame that they can't find a way to make the show profitable even with the limited audience.

[WrongWay]

I think the best bet would be the mini-series idea on Sci-Fi. Then they could sit back and judge the numbers against the BSG mini-series numbers.

[Honolulu_Blue]

**SPOILER WARNING** **SPOILERS BELOW**








I would love to see Firefly come back in some form. I wouldn't care if it were straight to DVD, a mini-series, what have you. That said, I would have a couple of reservations depending on what they chose to do.

If the did the mini-series or whatever post-Serenity, it would be a very different feel. First, you have uber-River who appears to be pretty much un-stoppable. If the Matrix sequels taught us one thing it was that watching un-stoppable heroes fight villians is pretty boring. There are plenty of work-arounds to this given that River is quite, well, unstable. Second, and more important, is that... WASH IS FUCKING DEAD. I am still not completely over that. The show would be very different without him. He served as the ying to Zoe/Mal's yang in a lot of ways. Not having Book around would suck too, but not as much as Wash.

Granted, they could also do something between the end of the show and the begining of the movie, though much of what happened there was explained in the comics. Still, it's a sci-fi show, so they could tinker with the timeline as much as they want I reckon.

[Travis]

They should seriously think about doing a direct to DVD series that is the fx quality of the t.v. show to make it economical.

It seems the show is a bit too expensive for television but not popular enough for theaters but there has to be a sweet spot where they can put out a quality show and make money at the same time (which is all that matters).

As for the show being hard to pin-down, I agree totally.

I know some here will agrue vehemently against what I'm about to say, but IMHO the show manages to be trailer trash and highbrow at the same time and this is one of the main reasons the show is so great.

However, it isn't trailer trash enough for the folks that want fights and blood all the time and it isn't highbrow enough for those that want dramatic whatnot.

The t.v. show had a TON of dialogue. Normally that is bad, but somehow whedon managed to make me yearn for the dialogue parts. I hated when they stoped talking and some action sequence would start up. The characters are so great you want them to be talking and only use action as a period or exclamation point at the end of the sentence.

Like I've said before, before Firefly I thought whedon was a tool because I despised Buffy the series. I still think he is a tool, but he struck a chord in me with the Firefly universe and it's a shame that they can't find a way to make the show profitable even with the limited audience.

I'm not sure if I'd go as far as calling it trashy, but that said, I pretty much agree with your reasoning. The best part is that it's completely intended by the writers, and even when you think you know what's about to happen, something completely different ends up happening.

For example, a great moment early in the series where it looks like there's going to be a big standoff in the cargo bay when the agent has River captive and a gun to her while Simon is trying to figure out what to do. Nice prolonged standoff coming up, well, until Mal walks on and calmly and cooly pops the guy without a word. A nice exclamation of action that drives it right back to character interaction.

Oh, question for the masses. How many have read the 3 comic series that takes place between the series and the movie?

[Crapshoot]

They should seriously think about doing a direct to DVD series that is the fx quality of the t.v. show to make it economical.

It seems the show is a bit too expensive for television but not popular enough for theaters but there has to be a sweet spot where they can put out a quality show and make money at the same time (which is all that matters).

As for the show being hard to pin-down, I agree totally.

I know some here will agrue vehemently against what I'm about to say, but IMHO the show manages to be trailer trash and highbrow at the same time and this is one of the main reasons the show is so great.

However, it isn't trailer trash enough for the folks that want fights and blood all the time and it isn't highbrow enough for those that want dramatic whatnot.

The t.v. show had a TON of dialogue. Normally that is bad, but somehow whedon managed to make me yearn for the dialogue parts. I hated when they stoped talking and some action sequence would start up. The characters are so great you want them to be talking and only use action as a period or exclamation point at the end of the sentence.

Like I've said before, before Firefly I thought whedon was a tool because I despised Buffy the series. I still think he is a tool, but he struck a chord in me with the Firefly universe and it's a shame that they can't find a way to make the show profitable even with the limited audience.

Interesting- I agree with you about dialogue - to me, that makes the show run, but mixing and matching it with action is what makes it fun. Wheldon has given us such a wide universe of characters, and established them with depth, that we look forward to seeing them be thermselves.

[Crapshoot]

I'm not sure if I'd go as far as calling it trashy, but that said, I pretty much agree with your reasoning. The best part is that it's completely intended by the writers, and even when you think you know what's about to happen, something completely different ends up happening.

For example, a great moment early in the series where it looks like there's going to be a big standoff in the cargo bay when the agent has River captive and a gun to her while Simon is trying to figure out what to do. Nice prolonged standoff coming up, well, until Mal walks on and calmly and cooly pops the guy without a word. A nice exclamation of action that drives it right back to character interaction.

Oh, question for the masses. How many have read the 3 comic series that takes place between the series and the movie?

Exactly the scene I was going to quote - one of my favorites, by far. I haven't read the comics, but read a synopsis of what they apparently covered.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Interesting- I agree with you about dialogue - to me, that makes the show run, but mixing and matching it with action is what makes it fun. Wheldon has given us such a wide universe of characters, and established them with depth, that we look forward to seeing them be thermselves.
Totally agree with both of you fellas. I think that's why, at least for me, that Firefly worked so much better as a TV show than a movie. I liked spending time with the characters. I liked their interactions, the dialogue, the small moments. In a 1.5-2 hour movie there just is not enough time for that, especially when you have to throw in some nifty special effects, bigger/better/faster action sequences, and establish the plot and all. While the action on the show was fine and often fun, it was by no means the strength of the show.

[Crapshoot]

Totally agree with both of you fellas. I think that's why, at least for me, that Firefly worked so much better as a TV show than a movie. I liked spending time with the characters. I liked their interactions, the dialogue, the small moments. In a 1.5-2 hour movie there just is not enough time for that, especially when you have to throw in some nifty special effects, bigger/better/faster action sequences, and establish the plot and all. While the action on the show was fine and often fun, it was by no means the strength of the show.

Yup - I enjoyed the movie, but it was always headed towards an end goal, as opposed to characters being themselves, an odd job here, an odd job there. Firefly is significantly better as a TV show because of the time it allots.

Hell, I'd buy the next season (if its made) - site unseen. There's a fairly large, devoted audience of browncoats, generally in the target demographic (18-29) and I believe the income levels are slightly higher than average - I have to believe the market is strong enough as a niche.

[Bonegavel]

I'm not sure if I'd go as far as calling it trashy, but that said, I pretty much agree with your reasoning. The best part is that it's completely intended by the writers, and even when you think you know what's about to happen, something completely different ends up happening.

For example, a great moment early in the series where it looks like there's going to be a big standoff in the cargo bay when the agent has River captive and a gun to her while Simon is trying to figure out what to do. Nice prolonged standoff coming up, well, until Mal walks on and calmly and cooly pops the guy without a word. A nice exclamation of action that drives it right back to character interaction.

Oh, question for the masses. How many have read the 3 comic series that takes place between the series and the movie?I don't mean trailer trash as in cars in the front yard on cinder blocks.

I mean the fact that most of the characters are the sort you would meet in a seedy bar rather than a fancy restaurant.

But Whedon has also given us Simon (and to a lesser extent Inara) to be in sharp contrast with that. Joss works in both sides of "tracks" very well.

Along those lines, another one of my favorite moments in the series is when Mal kicks that big dude into the engine. What a great moment, especially the reaction of the next thug. Priceless.

[Travis]

Heh (spoiler alert as we recap favorite scenes).

From the movie, watching Jayne hit the clothesline, then catch the guys feet only to drive him head first into the ground, one of many, many great Jayne moments ("I'll be in my bunk" and "They're whores [Mal].........I'm in! [Jayne]"

One of my all time favorites was from the Mrs. Reynolds episode, at the very end where there's a great leadup scene between Inara and Mal where the conversation and the feel of the scene really seems to build up to a breakthrough in the relationship, only for Mal to be more of a hormone guided missile than ever before when he figures out that Inara *obviously* kissed Saffron. The way he delivers his last line and walks out in such a triumpant manner had me in tears. The engine scene was awesome as well, though at least in that case I had kind of an inkling of how it would go.

The thing about this series, as they talk about in the extras, was they never knew, week to week, if they'd get to continue it. Sure Whedon had probably 4 to 5 seasons worth of story planned out, but as much as I love the Angel series, there was not a single episode of Firefly that I didn't enjoy. Can't say that for any other series, or for 3/4 of a season for any other series (definitely no low points like the cross over for Gina Torres in Angel, worst series of episodes in their 5 seasons).

Out of the series (and I'm likely going to miss one or two as this is off the top of my head), I probably enjoyed the flashback episode (can't remember the title, the one where it's centered on Mal trying to repair the ship, starts with him falling to the deck then recaps up to that point before continuing) and Jaynestown the most. Neither are really action based in the least, but the quality of writing (as well as acting) is simply superb. They're casting for this series was perfect.

I think the saddest thing about the show being cancelled is not getting to delve into the backstories of Shepherd Book (the one I want to see the most) as well as Inara. Wash dying was absolutely stunning especially with Book already being gone. As far as River being a superhero now though, I'd have no fear that they'd find a suitable workaround for that. Heck, she's already had episodes where she has nearly offed a few of the crew as it is, so her expanding abilities may lead to more tension in that manner as I'd seriously doubt that her mental state has improved all that much yet.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Heh (spoiler alert as we recap favorite scenes).

From the movie, watching Jayne hit the clothesline, then catch the guys feet only to drive him head first into the ground, one of many, many great Jayne moments ("I'll be in my bunk" and "They're whores [Mal].........I'm in! [Jayne]"

One of my all time favorites was from the Mrs. Reynolds episode, at the very end where there's a great leadup scene between Inara and Mal where the conversation and the feel of the scene really seems to build up to a breakthrough in the relationship, only for Mal to be more of a hormone guided missile than ever before when he figures out that Inara *obviously* kissed Saffron. The way he delivers his last line and walks out in such a triumpant manner had me in tears. The engine scene was awesome as well, though at least in that case I had kind of an inkling of how it would go.

The thing about this series, as they talk about in the extras, was they never knew, week to week, if they'd get to continue it. Sure Whedon had probably 4 to 5 seasons worth of story planned out, but as much as I love the Angel series, there was not a single episode of Firefly that I didn't enjoy. Can't say that for any other series, or for 3/4 of a season for any other series (definitely no low points like the cross over for Gina Torres in Angel, worst series of episodes in their 5 seasons).

Out of the series (and I'm likely going to miss one or two as this is off the top of my head), I probably enjoyed the flashback episode (can't remember the title, the one where it's centered on Mal trying to repair the ship, starts with him falling to the deck then recaps up to that point before continuing) and Jaynestown the most. Neither are really action based in the least, but the quality of writing (as well as acting) is simply superb. They're casting for this series was perfect.

I think the saddest thing about the show being cancelled is not getting to delve into the backstories of Shepherd Book (the one I want to see the most) as well as Inara. Wash dying was absolutely stunning especially with Book already being gone. As far as River being a superhero now though, I'd have no fear that they'd find a suitable workaround for that. Heck, she's already had episodes where she has nearly offed a few of the crew as it is, so her expanding abilities may lead to more tension in that manner as I'd seriously doubt that her mental state has improved all that much yet.
You're absolutely right about that 4th season of Angel. It was definitely a low point. The whole evil/pregnant Cordelia thing sucked. Connor sucked. The Jasmine thing was god awful. It was horrible. I felt they rebounded pretty nicely in Season 5. Spike was a good addition. I really liked the final episode.

While Firefly's short run did make it hard for them to screw it up (as happened with Angel and Buffy), it's amazing how well the show hit its stride from the very first episode. I can't think of too many shows that had such a strong first season ("Lost", I think, is one). While the first seasons of Buffy and Angel were good, both shows didn't really find their "groove" until a bit later on in their runs. That is definitely true for STNG. Firefly just hit it perfectly right out of the gate. That is what made all of its fans (the Browncoats) bemoan its loss so loudly. There was just so much potential there...

As for favorite moments, there are so many it's hard for me to chose. I loved the scene in the first episode where the Alliance guy had a gun to someone's (Kaylee? River?) head and was getting ready for a big stand off when Mal and the rest came back from the exchange and Mal casually walked into the ship, drew his gun, and blew the guy away without some much as a pause. In a similar vein, I loved in War Stories when Zoe comes into Niska's place to buy back Wash and Mal and Niska starts chuckling about how it's enough money for only one of them and just as he's about to break into his diablolical monologue about forcing Zoe to pick between her captain and husband, she cuts him off and points to Wash and says, "Him. You were going to make me choose, right?" There are so many other great moments.

My favorite episodes are probably "Ariel", "Out of Gas," and "War Stories."

[Travis]

Oh man, I knew I'd forget one. The torture episode was neck and neck with the recap episode amongst my favorites. When he gives her "change", well, wow. A great episode for really appreciating Mal's true persona as well as some serious growth for Wash.

And the dramatic love scene between Mal and Zoey at the end, well, my drink did come out of my nose. Poor Wash.

(I'm pretty sure it was River in the scene you were talking about HB.)

As far as the other series goes, I'd agree that each took longer to hit their stride. Angel: Season Five is probably my favorite of the seasons (with the puppet episode being truly hilarious) with Four like you said, being the low point. Buffy, well, I found each season had true highs and lows and find it much harder to pick an entire season that I prefer over another.

[mauchow]

I got the DVD Series of Firefly! I'm pumped, I should have it by next week. Had to spend pretty much full price on it, 40 bucks in all. I've already seen all the episodes, but on the computer, so this will be much better.

[ISiddiqui]

$40?!! Cancel it! Amazon has it for $35 (free shipping for that price)!

edit: FORGET AMAZON... Overstock has it for under $32 (including shipping):

http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PROFRAME&PROD_ID=539034

[mauchow]

They could also bring Wash back saying how he was just stabbed below the vital parts...albeit it was a huge stab, but still.

[mauchow]

$40?!! Cancel it! Amazon has it for $35 (free shipping for that price)!

edit: FORGET AMAZON... Overstock has it for under $32 (including shipping):

http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PROFRAME&PROD_ID=539034
Heh, thanks, but I would have done such except I've had this Walmart gift card I've been trying to use...but maybe I will look into it and possibly grab something else.

[ISiddiqui]

Heh, thanks, but I would have done such except I've had this Walmart gift card I've been trying to use...but maybe I will look into it and possibly grab something else.No prob. Just trying to help a brotha out ;).

[Travis]

They could also bring Wash back saying how he was just stabbed below the vital parts...albeit it was a huge stab, but still.

His first line being, "But I'm feeling better!"

I get the feeling, contrary to Buffy and Angel, that when they bite it in Firefly, they've bitten it. Especially when they do the graveside scene.

I'd imagine he'd make a few guest appearances for flashbacks and that sort of thing, but as sad as it is to say, I really think Wash is done. That said, I think it was also a way to give River an opportunity to assume a contributing role on the ship as I can't imagine Mal assuming the pilot's role. They could always bring in a new character for that too, but I think it'd be interesting to see River in that role.

[sabotai]

A knife or a sword below vital organs without a graveyard scene....ok. A big log going through his stomach....no.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Buffy, well, I found each season had true highs and lows and find it much harder to pick an entire season that I prefer over another.
That's odd on Buffy. I felt like Season 2 of Buffy was the best season and, perhaps, the finest season of TV I've ever had the pleasure of watching. I liked season one a lot, though it was a bit rough around the edges. I loved season 3. Solid throughout. Season 4 was quite good too. Season 5 started the descent. It was ok, but Glory sucked and I was no fan of Dawn. Season 6 had "Once More With Feeling" which was pure genius, but over all was a bit weak. Season 7 was pretty weak once the whole Slayerette stuff started. And Spike was a complete drain on the show during Season 7, though he rebounded nicely and got back to good, old Spike on Angel.

[Travis]

Any season with Faith was a good season in my books ;)

Like you point out though, seasons 2 thru 4 were probably the best the show had with season 1 nearly in that group. I guess I didn't mind Glory so much, but I have to clarify that by saying that I watched all of Angel before going back and watching Buffy through on DVD. So having already dealt with Jasmine, Glory didn't seem quite so bad.

There were some weak characters (re: some of the Slayerettes) in Season 7, but I did quite like how Buffy's character was done and thought Fillion did a very nice job with his role.

That said, personally, I think I'd still take Season 5 of Angel over any season of Buffy.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Any season with Faith was a good season in my books ;)

Like you point out though, seasons 2 thru 4 were probably the best the show had with season 1 nearly in that group. I guess I didn't mind Glory so much, but I have to clarify that by saying that I watched all of Angel before going back and watching Buffy through on DVD. So having already dealt with Jasmine, Glory didn't seem quite so bad.

There were some weak characters (re: some of the Slayerettes) in Season 7, but I did quite like how Buffy's character was done and thought Fillion did a very nice job with his role.

That said, personally, I think I'd still take Season 5 of Angel over any season of Buffy.
Wow. That's saying something. Season 2 of Buffy had the whole gang at full force: Buffy, Willow, Oz (pre-wolf), Cordelia, Giles, and Xander (even throw in Ms. Calendar for the hottie/surprising death factor). And the bad guys had: Evil Angel, Spike, and Druscilla. Just doesn't get any better than that.

While Season 5 of Angel was great, I just never really liked the whole Illyria thing. It did little for me and they had already gone down that "demon cum human" route with Anya (i.e., other worldly beings feeling/experiencing human emotions, etc.). As for the final episode, my favorite scene was the final Lorne/Lindsey scene. Just the perfect ending for both characters.

[Travis]

Question for you, which series did you watch first? Like I said, I watched the entirety of Angel before seeing more than probably 15 episodes of Buffy in their entirety, never mind same season, in order.

The episode where Fred "dies" was an amazing episode. I wasn't super crazy about the Illyria character, but it reminded me of that episode every time I saw her.

I can definitely agree that season 2 of Buffy had a great cast, but I'm not sure any combo could touch Spike and Angel in season 5. Add in Wesley who had finally become (imho) a great character, Lorne (who had really good moments, especially in the finale), Harmony (again, great moments), and Lindsey, they didn't do too badly on their own. Oh, and the wee little puppet man (that episode rivals Once More With Feeling in my books).

The finale, definitely great. I'm torn as I'd love to see the series get picked up again on it's own, or to have a movie done (including the Buffy characters to finish everything off the way Whedon envisioned), but the way they finished off the final season of Angel isn't a bad way to go out if that is to be it's fate.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Question for you, which series did you watch first? Like I said, I watched the entirety of Angel before seeing more than probably 15 episodes of Buffy in their entirety, never mind same season, in order.

The episode where Fred "dies" was an amazing episode. I wasn't super crazy about the Illyria character, but it reminded me of that episode every time I saw her.

I can definitely agree that season 2 of Buffy had a great cast, but I'm not sure any combo could touch Spike and Angel in season 5. Add in Wesley who had finally become (imho) a great character, Lorne (who had really good moments, especially in the finale), Harmony (again, great moments), and Lindsey, they didn't do too badly on their own. Oh, and the wee little puppet man (that episode rivals Once More With Feeling in my books).

The finale, definitely great. I'm torn as I'd love to see the series get picked up again on it's own, or to have a movie done (including the Buffy characters to finish everything off the way Whedon envisioned), but the way they finished off the final season of Angel isn't a bad way to go out if that is to be it's fate.
I started watching Buffy in Season 2. A friend of mine had all Season 1 on tape, so I went back and watched them all before Season 3. So, I watched the first 3 Seaons of Buffy and then started to watch the two series simultaneously from then on. Because of that, I think I was also a little more invested in Buffy than Angel.

I remember thinking the first season of Angel was a bit off, but a few years ago I went back and re-watched them with Lady H_B (she became a Whedonite convert) and I was actually kind of surprised how good it was, much better than I remembered. I think my favorite episode of Angel was in Season 3 with the haunted Russian ballet (where River was the head ballerina).

[WrongWay]

FarScape vs FireFly

Which miniseries do you think the SciFi channel should go with?


For me, it is FarScape. It has been 2 years since the PeaceKeaper Wars and I think it is about time the SciFi channel roll out another FarScape miniseries. Besides, the SciFi channel already has both Browder and Black under contract over at the SG set.

[Crapshoot]

Once again, the previously cited position of the right answer being the opposite of WrongWay's answer seems to apply.. D

[BrianD]

Once again, the previously cited position of the right answer being the opposite of WrongWay's answer seems to apply.. D

Seems odd to come into a discussion about Firefly and discuss how Farscape would be a better show to pick up. Think that was an intentional flame, or just really stupid?

[Crapshoot]

Seems odd to come into a discussion about Firefly and discuss how Farscape would be a better show to pick up. Think that was an intentional flame, or just really stupid?

No Comment... :D

[BrianD]

No Comment... :D

Oh come on...it'll be fun. :D

[WrongWay]

Seems odd to come into a discussion about Firefly and discuss how Farscape would be a better show to pick up. Think that was an intentional flame, or just really stupid?
WOW, I did not know that everyone posting in this thread thinks FireFly is the greatest Sci-Fi show of all time.

Sorry, but I personally like FarScape over FireFly.


And, actually this thread was to show all those FireFly fans out there how bad Serenity was doingm in the DVD "rental" area. 25th in it's opening weekend is terrible. Especially if you look at some of those Sci-Fi giants like "Stealth" and "Fantastic Four" who are beating it out.

Hell, even "The Dukes of Hazzard" is kicking Serenity's ass. :D

[Jesse_Ewiak]

You do realize with the prevelance of things like Netflix or Blockbuster Unlimited, plus DVD's being failry cheap, that rentals mean nothing?

It's #3 is sales on Amazon.

[WrongWay]

You do realize with the prevelance of things like Netflix or Blockbuster Unlimited, plus DVD's being failry cheap, that rentals mean nothing?

It's #3 is sales on Amazon.
Hmm, really? Serenity did $25 million at the US Box office.

Looking at the top 25 form the rental list.

Four Brother did $8.8 million it's opening week.
Charlie and the Choclate Factory is currently at $52 million in rentals.
War of the World is over $46 million.
Stealth is at $39.8 million and counting!
Serenity $1.6 million

Sorry, I had to make the Sci-Fi flop Stealth in bold to show you how a Bad Sci-Fi movie was doing at the Rental Store.


So, you don't think these Millions upon Millions of dollars mean anything to the studios?

[Jesse_Ewiak]

Pretty much...no. At this point, rental money is a nice bonus but not that much of a major draw. For example, if ya' go here ->

http://www.dvdexclusive.com/charts_sellers_ytd.asp

People rent crappy moves because WTH, it's only three-four bucks. People _buy_ good movies, because it's fifteen-twenty dollars for a DVD at the low end.

[Calis]

I'm not sure why you're surprised that the movie is doing so poorly in rentals, the fans of the show are buying the DVD.

It's a niche movie based upon a niche show not THAT many people watched to begin with, what did you expect it to do? Double it's revenue from rentals?

If anything this shows the power of marketing, Stealth was shoved down our throats over and over again. Most of the others you mentioned were as well. I don't think the low sales speaks badly on Serenity's quality, it just speaks on what people wanted to see..or are convinced that's what they want to see.

Stealth is #386 in sales on Amazon, I'd take the sales.

[sachmo71]

Don't asshat this thead, asshats.

[BrianD]

And, actually this thread was to show all those FireFly fans out there how bad Serenity was doingm in the DVD "rental" area. 25th in it's opening weekend is terrible. Especially if you look at some of those Sci-Fi giants like "Stealth" and "Fantastic Four" who are beating it out.


Looking back at your first post in the thread, the purpose of this thread was to show how bad Serenity was doing in the "sales" area. You just happened to use rental data to try to make your point.

[Fouts]

Bump. BestBuy now has a bunch of Firefly DVD sets. I picked one up and have enjoyed the first 5 episodes. I think I paid $40, but it was money well spent. I'm just sad there was no season 2.

[Crapshoot]

Bump. BestBuy now has a bunch of Firefly DVD sets. I picked one up and have enjoyed the first 5 episodes. I think I paid $40, but it was money well spent. I'm just sad there was no season 2.
'
Another conversion - good to know.. ;) And yeah, I think it gets better. The Train Job is probably my least favorite episode. The Man They Call Jayne is frigging awesome.

[sachmo71]

I just bought the Serenity novel. We'll see how it goes down.

[mauchow]

http://www.cafepress.com/buy/firefly/-/opt_/fpt_/c_/pg_2/rpp_18

Buy a magnet or a shirt perhaps? :)

[Abe Sargent]

It's sad, because I thought that Serenity really had the potential to be the first show since Babylon 5 to be Babylon 5.

Now I have Lost though, which is also looking to be Babylon 5.

-Anxiety

[Fouts]

It's sad, because I thought that Serenity really had the potential to be the first show since Babylon 5 to be Babylon 5.

Now I have Lost though, which is also looking to be Babylon 5.

-Anxiety

Never watched Babylon 5. Would you recommend the DVD set to someone who can't get enough Firefly? Just checked Amazon and they are going for 80 bucks a season. Ouch.

[gi]

Never watched Babylon 5. Would you recommend the DVD set to someone who can't get enough Firefly? Just checked Amazon and they are going for 80 bucks a season. Ouch.
B5 is another character driven story. The first season sets up the really good seasons 2,3,4. Season 5 is okay. I bought the DVD's because I loved the show. That is a lot of money just to test the waters. You may be able to rent them and I believe Sci-Fi channel was showing them at one point too.

[Subby]

WOW, I did not know that everyone posting in this thread thinks FireFly is the greatest Sci-Fi show of all time.

Sorry, but I personally like FarScape over FireFly. I hope you are the type of banned that allows you to still read the board.

If so, fuck you. http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/biggrin.gif