Raider Talk-or blather

[Mo.Raider]

Vince Young coming out early is great news! Not that I think that the Raiders will jump up and grab him, but it just makes another premium pick slide down to 6 or 7 whichever the Raiders end up receiving from the NFL loaded coin flippers.

AND I am hoping that pick is AJ Hawk. Our offense is just a couple of guards/offensive coordinator away from being potent. The defense is coming on with a lot of youth and some cap room for fringe players (see Charles Woodson exodus). AJ Hawk could team with defensive rookie of the year candidate Kirk Morrison (had arguably a better rookie year than much heralded Derrick Johnson of KC) and tough Danny Clark to make a formidable linebacking set. This would also move Tyler Brayton who is a very serviceable DE with a high motor back to his natural position. His move to linebacker has been laughable if not sad for him. Watching a 6-6 280 pound linebacker "experiment" flail around in space trying to cover a speedy rb is something akin to watching Kramer fall into a pile of folding chairs.

"And tha'uts all I've got to say about tha'ut".

[Raiders Army]

I think it's a strong possibility that the Raiders jump up and pick Young, but I would be happy with Hawk as well. I think you make some valid points, but I'm not sure about Tyler Brayton at end. If they go with a 3-4, no. 4-3, yes.

I don't think Kerry Collins has a chance to stay in Oakland. He played almost every game on the road this season (hometown crowds booing him) and I think that regardless of how well he does, he has worn out his welcome.

[st.cronin]

Raiders are going to take Marcus Vick with their first pick.

[Mo.Raider]

Raiders Army- I agree Young would add some excitement/intrigue going into the season. Although the Raiders would more than likely bench him for a season :rolleyes:.

I think we will be predominantly 4-3 next year because we are kind of stuck with Sapp for another year due to his contract. This is ok, because DT rotation can alleviate any problems with his age. Even with Hawk we just don't have the lbs yet for Ryan's 3-4.

Collins on the other hand will depend on what we do in FA regardless of Young, and if he is willing to restructure his cap heavy contract. If he does this Al has already gave the impression that he is comfortable bringing back Collins. I don't really have a problem with this due to the weak QB free agent market, and young qbs in the wings (Walter or a Young). Win and the fans will cheer regardless of QB.

St Cronin-Go wash your mouth out with soap :p .

[Raiders Army]

Even though Young would add excitement, I hate the rebuilding years. It's like a waste of a season....almost.

[gstelmack]

but it just makes another premium pick slide down to 6 or 7 whichever the Raiders end up receiving from the NFL loaded coin flippers.http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif And people keep complaining about us Pats fans. You do realise they already did the flip and the Raiders won the 6th pick?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2006-01-02-draft-order_x.htm in case you missed it...

[Mo.Raider]

I know what you mean. I am really hoping these last few years were just that; rebuiliding years. When you look at the roster you can't help think we are just a few tweaks and a whole lot of coach away from being right back near the top. Imagine what Billechick or Gru could do with this team. Gru got us to 8-8 with Donald Hollas for the love of Pete! Last I heard he was selling cat toys (I am serious). I look around the league and most teams are getting more for much less than we have.

[Mo.Raider]

And people keep complaining about us Pats fans. You do realise they already did the flip and the Raiders won the 6th pick?

Yeah, I read that too. And right after that from everything that I have read is that the league wants a "do over" after the Superbowl. It all depends on which story you believe. From experience I tend to believe the latter (see tuck rule).

[Raiders Army]

I know Al Davis has done a lot for the organization. Hell, he is the Raiders, but he needs to step back and let a coach coach. We won't win until he does. That's what scared me about Norv. Norv was a whipping boy and he would never have the power necessary to utilize the talent.

[rkmsuf]

Yeah, I read that too. And right after that from everything that I have read is that the league wants a "do over" after the Superbowl. It all depends on which story you believe. From experience I tend to believe the latter (see tuck rule).

but the tuck rule is an actual rule

[Raiders Army]

but the tuck rule is an actual rule
It's still a bullshit rule.

BTW, I want the Patriots to win the Superbowl this year. My wife was like, what?

The only reason I would want the Colts to win is because of Tony Dungy. Other than that, I want Peyton to win this weekend and lose to the Pats next weekend. Threepeat would be nice and especially to cement their place in history.

[Mo.Raider]

but the tuck rule is an actual rule

Agreed. But was pulled out, dusted off and applied incredibly loosely at the time. Picture after picture showed fumble. Anyway that argument is history/well discussed :).

I know Al Davis has done a lot for the organization. Hell, he is the Raiders, but he needs to step back and let a coach coach. We won't win until he does. That's what scared me about Norv. Norv was a whipping boy and he would never have the power necessary to utilize the talent.

Well said my friend, well said. I had the same feeling when they hired Norv. Everyone kept spouting off "perfect fit" and I kept thinking for the rest of the NFL, but not for us. Per Al's own words "I don't want a disciplinarian". Wow, I am a coach, and without discipline, you lose. Period.

[st.cronin]

I know what you mean. I am really hoping these last few years were just that; rebuiliding years. When you look at the roster you can't help think we are just a few tweaks and a whole lot of coach away from being right back near the top. Imagine what Billechick or Gru could do with this team. Gru got us to 8-8 with Donald Hollas for the love of Pete! Last I heard he was selling cat toys (I am serious). I look around the league and most teams are getting more for much less than we have.

Bill Bellicheck is the greatest coach in the history of organized sports. There is no doubt in my mind that with the talent on the Raiders roster, he could go 15-1 and win the Super Bowl.

:p

[gstelmack]

It's still a bullshit rule.That I can agree with, much like the "receiver possession in the end zone" rule that bit Tampa this week. However, Oakland still had PLENTY of opportunities to stop the Pats in that game and couldn't do it (Brady and Vinatieri still had a couple of scores to make up even after being given the ball back on that play), so I'm sick of hearing Oakland fans still lamenting it.

[Raiders Army]

That I can agree with, much like the "receiver possession in the end zone" rule that bit Tampa this week. However, Oakland still had PLENTY of opportunities to stop the Pats in that game and couldn't do it (Brady and Vinatieri still had a couple of scores to make up even after being given the ball back on that play), so I'm sick of hearing Oakland fans still lamenting it.
Everyone has their schtick. ;) Holy Roller anyone?

[Mo.Raider]

That I can agree with, much like the "receiver possession in the end zone" rule that bit Tampa this week. However, Oakland still had PLENTY of opportunities to stop the Pats in that game and couldn't do it (Brady and Vinatieri still had a couple of scores to make up even after being given the ball back on that play), so I'm sick of hearing Oakland fans still lamenting it.


Oh it was a great slugfest with both teams going toe to toe. The only difference was that is was decided by an over officious/scandelous crew. If this rule is as they interpreted; why wouldn't you just pump fake as you are dropping back from center and then never worry again about fumbling? You are going to have to be sick, because when it is brought up, I will always lament :D.

[rkmsuf]

Oh it was a great slugfest with both teams going toe to toe. The only difference was that is was decided by an over officious/scandelous crew. If this rule is as they interpreted; why wouldn't you just pump fake as you are dropping back from center and then never worry again about fumbling? You are going to have to be sick, because when it is brought up, I will always lament :D.


That's so much more entertaining to a Pats fan than saying "Yeah, NE was better."


Good work.

[Raiders Army]

That's so much more entertaining to a Pats fan than saying "Yeah, NE was better."


Good work.
You're right, it was well said.

[rkmsuf]

You're right, it was well said.

yes it was. much better than being made fun of because you got creamed by st. louis 45-7. at least now you have something to hang your hat on.

[Mo.Raider]

BTW, I want the Patriots to win the Superbowl this year. My wife was like, what?

Even though I can't truly root for a team, I hope for success for the Bears. My coaching collegue is Wade Wilson's nephew and he keeps me up to date on inside Bears stuff. It kind of makes it interesting. Last Bears training camp he was able to go spend a couple of days with "da Bears". I enjoy hearing what it is like inside an NFL team. He was even able to eat in the cafeteria with Urlacher and crew. Real cool stuff.

[SnDvls]

You all are forgetting about Raiders QB Andrew Walter...he's as mobile as a rhino, but he's got a cannon for an arm. He's just what Al ordered to throw to R. Moss and Co. Heave the hell out of the ball and let the WR run under it for a TD. I can't wait to see him in a live game.

[Mo.Raider]

Sndvl-You all are forgetting about Raiders QB Andrew Walter...he's as mobile as a rhino, but he's got a cannon for an arm. He's just what Al ordered to throw to R. Moss and Co. Heave the hell out of the ball and let the WR run under it for a TD. I can't wait to see him in a live game.

Nope, I mentioned Walter in the fourth post. I think he has a real future with the Raiders. You mentioned his mobility. I thought during pre-season he moved around really well. He had one play where he eluded several would be tacklers, and then after ducking out of the grasp of a sure fire sack, threw a strike across the field to an open reciever. I was really impressed with his calm/confident demeanor. You know more about his college career than I do. Was he sack prone or was this play a demonstration of him being just athletic enough to elude the rush and get the ball down the field? Remember I am used to the absolute statue that is Collins.

[cthomer5000]

I have to think Marcus Vick's stock is rising daily within the Raiders organization.

[GrantDawg]

Raiders Army- I agree Young would add some excitement/intrigue going into the season. Although the Raiders would more than likely bench him for a season :rolleyes:.

They had better if they get him. It would be a big mistake to think he'll be ready to in and start next year.

[Kodos]

Bill Bellicheck is the greatest coach in the history of organized sports. There is no doubt in my mind that with the talent on the Raiders roster, he could go 15-1 and win the Super Bowl.

:p

While he is certainly a very good coach, people seem quick to forget the Cleveland years.


1991-1995 Bill Belichick 36-44- 0

1991 Cleveland 6 10 0 .375 (3rd) Did Not Make Playoffs
1992 Cleveland 7 9 0 .438 (3rd) Did Not Make Playoffs
1993 Cleveland 7 9 0 .438 (3rd) Did Not Make Playoffs
1994 Cleveland 11 5 0 .688 (2nd)
1 1 .500 Beat New England,
Lost to Pittsburgh
1995 Cleveland 5 11 0 .312 (4th) Did Not Make Playoffs



http://www.sportsnetwork.com/?c=ohio&page=nfl/teams/DIRECT120.htm

[Mo.Raider]

I have to think Marcus Vick's stock is rising daily within the Raiders organization.

I really think he would be a good replacement for Chad Pennington in New York :p.

I would cry white hot tears of pain if the Raiders drafted him with any picks this April. We are not in need of any more malcontents.

[SnDvls]

Nope, I mentioned Walter in the fourth post. I think he has a real future with the Raiders. You mentioned his mobility. I thought during pre-season he moved around really well. He had one play where he elude several would be tacklers, and then after ducking out of the grasp of a sure fire sack, threw a strike across the field to an open reciever. I was really impressed with his calm/confident demeanor. You know more about his college career than I do. Was he sack prone or was this play a demonstration of him being just athletic enough to elude the rush and get the ball down the field? Remember I am used to the absolute statue that is Collins.


sorry didn't see the post, just mentions of Young. He does have a little mobility, but he's not a Plummer (another ASU grad). His arm is way better than Jake's though. Mostly due to his size for the reason for his lack of mobility I believe he's 6'5" or 6'6" if I'm not mistaken. He is very confident in his game pro or college and will be a success if in the right system which I think the Raiders have for him. He wasn't sack prone in college, just never really took off in college. He would take the hit, but make the play too. One time he really took off on a scramble was his last college game against Arizona and he got hurt. He was able due to his height and strength to get away from the would be tackler in college many times. He will throw the ball high at times though. Not interception high, but enough for the WR coming across the middle to get a shot in the ribs every once in a while high. He'll learn to not do that too much as a pro though. He's a very down to earth humble guy in person and real student of the game.

[Mo.Raider]

They had better if they get him. It would be a big mistake to think he'll be ready to in and start next year.


Usually I would agree whole heartedly. But in this case it depends upon who our other options are. You can insert someone like Young in the lineup as they did with Big Ben in Pittsburg, but you have to play within his comfort zone/progression.

Like I said at the top though, the much better pick for the Raiders would be AJ Hawk.

[Desnudo]

Oh it was a great slugfest with both teams going toe to toe. The only difference was that is was decided by an over officious/scandelous crew. If this rule is as they interpreted; why wouldn't you just pump fake as you are dropping back from center and then never worry again about fumbling? You are going to have to be sick, because when it is brought up, I will always lament :D.

What about the rule about clubbing a QB in the side of the head?

[st.cronin]

What about the rule about clubbing a QB in the side of the head?

C'mon, they're wearing helmets.

[Raiders Army]

Usually I would agree whole heartedly. But in this case it depends upon who our other options are. You can insert someone like Young in the lineup as they did with Big Ben in Pittsburg, but you have to play within his comfort zone/progression.

Like I said at the top though, the much better pick for the Raiders would be AJ Hawk.
I agree with you completely. And as long as Hawk breaks up with Brady Quinn's sister, it would be a good deal.

[Lorena]

Eww... if Vince Young goes to the Raidas, that's BAAAAD news for Chargers. I wouldn't wanna face someone like that twice a year.

[judicial clerk]

Please don't get me started about the "tuck rule" game. I would really like this Patriots team if not for that bullshit call (and Brady's smartass remarks after the game. Although I would grudgingly accept a trade of Brady for Moss).

I really like the idea of bringing in AJ Hawk. I would also like to see the raiders pick up one of these young QBs who have not been sucessful yet, with David Carr at the top of the list. I think a young QB could have less pressure on him with the Raiders if the running game stays strong and the line develops.

[st.cronin]

I would grudgingly accept a trade of Brady for Moss.

what are you smoking

[Glengoyne]

Yeah, I read that too. And right after that from everything that I have read is that the league wants a "do over" after the Superbowl. It all depends on which story you believe. From experience I tend to believe the latter (see tuck rule).Am I the only Raider fan to buy that that was an incomplete pass? I didn't have trouble with it even while I was watching the game.

[st.cronin]

Am I the only Raider fan to buy that that was an incomplete pass?

Yes.

[Raiders Army]

Am I the only Raider fan to buy that that was an incomplete pass? I didn't have trouble with it even while I was watching the game.
You, sir, are not a fan. That was a fumble. The only difference between this and the Holy Roller was that the rules didn't change after the game.

[Rizon]

I know Al Davis has done a lot for the organization. Hell, he is the Raiders, but he needs to step back and let a coach coach. We won't win until he does. That's what scared me about Norv. Norv was a whipping boy and he would never have the power necessary to utilize the talent.


http://home.comcast.net/~rizon1976/Oakland_Raiders_Generator.jpg

[Crim]

Rizon -- hilarious!


Crim

[Raiders Army]

Too true to be funny for me.

[Glengoyne]

You, sir, are not a fan. That was a fumble. The only difference between this and the Holy Roller was that the rules didn't change after the game.Probably more truth to that than I'd be willing to admit. I've become an Al Davis hater. It actually started when he screwed with Marcus Allen.

Honestly though, when watching that game, right after the replay I said You know I think they might rule that an incomplete pass, I think that's how the "forward motion" rule actually works. I didn't know it was called the "tuck rule", but I had seen it before. To the point that it didn't bother me.

My point of view was probably helped by the fact that while I was rooting for the Raiders...I really didn't think they were good enough to even still be playing anyway.

[Desnudo]

Has a Raiders fan ever admitted that it was a clear personal foul that caused the play? Or do they only watch events after it occurs?

[Mo.Raider]

Has a Raiders fan ever admitted that it was a clear personal foul that caused the play? Or do they only watch events after it occurs?

Not being sarcastic. Please explain the "clear" personal foul. I have really never heard anyone on either side of the argument mention this. I have looked at that abomination from more angles than I care to, and don't remember anything that was illegal. Do you mean the C-Wood's blitz (roughing the passer)?

[Desnudo]

He clearly hits Brady in the helmet with his right hand as he's going for the tackle, which should have been an automatic personal foul call.

[WVUFAN]

He clearly hits Brady in the helmet with his right hand as he's going for the tackle, which should have been an automatic personal foul call.
And it was a correct call. By the rules, it was not a fumble. The referee committee reviewed the play after the game and agreed with the reversed call on the field -- it was a fumble. Now, you may disagree with the rule, but the call was correct.

And it was a personal foul on Woodson as well.