BBCF or TCY?

[coachcbj]

I wanted to post this over here, because I think the Grey dog forum would be a little biased.

I really like BBCF but their still seems to be alot of issues.
I personally dont like the play calling system. I like to the run the option. And BBCF just doesst depict it very well IMO. If I play it the same way you play TCY (just watching). TCY seems to play out better also.

BBCF is obvouisly alot prettier to look at, but is that really what we look for in a text sim game? I know alot of people like the off-season recruiting better than in season. But in season is more realistic.

BBCF has all the modding you could want. But again I just dont think the engine is as reliable as TCY. BBCF is suppose to be alot more difficult to succeed, but TCY has difficulty levels.

And now that TCY dropped their price. Its almost half the cost of BBCF.

Now I havent played TCY in two years, so I know Ive forgot probably alot of things about it. And Ive onlyed played the demo of BBCF because Im waiting for a more polished product.

But I wanted to get some feedback form people and see which one they like better. I know TCY is old but its still very solid isnt it? and BBCF isnt really finished product yet, for twice the cost. But it looks promising...

Chime in with you Opinions or reviews. Which would you choose and why.

[st.cronin]

I don't think BBCF is pretty at all. I think it's sloppy-looking.

I still play TCY.

[biological warrior]

After playing the BBCF demo I'm still partial to TCY's simplicity.

[Schmidty]

Right now, I think BBCF is way better than TCY. I base this purely on the fun-factor.

[Johnny93g]

Im immersed in my bbcf world. BBCF for me

[coachcbj]

Okay, but why do you like BBCF better?

[MJ4H]

I like BBCF better because TCY had quite a few things that annoyed me, detracting from my enjoyment.

1) I don't like having to do a ton of recruiting before every game. I like recruiting separated from the season better. I realize this is not realistic, but I also think it is ok to change things from the way the really are to make it more fun.

2) Recruiting seems to be too formulaic and ritualistic.

3) I HATE the fact that the play-byplay includes jersey numbers. It is very annoying to read QB 12 Joe Jeffries passes over the middle to 34 Mike Walters for 27 yards. The jersey numbers do nothing for me but make it harder to find the play result in the text. This is so annoying to me, it would probably be the first thing I changed. It is the primary thing that drove me to write the TCY game viewer (some of you may know it evolved into the FOF 2k4 viewer in 3ric's hands--he's a miracle worker, that code was really thrown together).


4) The text is too small and hard on the eyes at high resolutions. Couple this with the fact that there are no pleasing color schemes and a frustratingly empty attempt at creating a pleasing color scheme, and it is just not fun to look at.

5) No immersion at all. It feels too much like work to play the game. I really prefer to have the ability to see logos, school colors, that type of stuff in the game. That's one of the attractions of sports to me: the visuals. Heck, I don't think fight songs are out of bounds for this type of game. Anything to make you feel like all these numbers you are looking at have something to do with, I don't know, COLLEGE FOOTBALL.

BBCF does a much better job on these points, so I prefer it. While it does have its problems, right now I can overlook them and enjoy the game more. To me, it really doesn't matter so much that the league punting average is 10% off of the expected NCAA average if I can't even get to the point in the game for that to be important because the game is too dry and uninteresting.

[waltwal]

bbcf has a ways to go but seems to be headed in the right direction. tcy was the biggest disappointment in a text sim that i have ever seen. it has a zero fun factor. all you do is repetitive busy work when playing the game.

that being said i am not sure football -pro or college- lends itself to a fun experience. i am referring to gm type games. there just seem to be a lot of tedious tasks that are necessary in the game.

[timmynausea]

TCY was probably my favorite game until I started playing multi-player FOF. TCY by a ton for me.

[Eaglesfan27]

I really enjoy both, but BBCF despite it's flaws has that one more turn factor going for me. It's very immersive with little things such as awards. Also, the stat tracking is very detailed and you can go back and look at previous years. I'm having a blast playing BBCF. However, I've put more hours into TCY in the past, than almost any other game.

[coachcbj]

wow! its really is almost 50-50. I guess it just depends on your flavor. I will admit TCY gives you more of a sit and watch what happens feel, while BBCF you feel a little bit more involved with the results. My main problem with BBCF right now, is when I try to get move involved thats when things seem to have the most issues. If I just sit and watch, it goes pretty well.

[Galaril]

TCY and to a certain extent feels and looks alot like work. I spend my days doing IT audits of financial databases and security programs so the last thing I want to do in the evening is spend time setting up hours for every player to know when to shit or eat.BBCF is just a hell of a lot more fun even with the few bugs still to be ironed out and I like the way the guys at GDS listen and respond to their customers concerns.

[Schmidty]

If you are an accountant, you will love TCY. If you are a non-accountant, you will love BBCF.

On a slightly more serious note, I love Jim's other games, but for some reason, TCy just seems so....tedious.

[KJDelaney]

BBCF

[Recoil]

TCY. It really isn't even close.

[mauchow]

BBCF..

I never played TCY.

[Galaril]

TCY. It really isn't even close.


lol

[Cuckoo]

On a slightly more serious note, I love Jim's other games, but for some reason, TCy just seems so....tedious.

Agreed.

[33sherman]

Fun thread to read. I'm amazed at how divided the opinions are. TCY is my favorite sim ever. I'd like it to have a little more visuals, even just logos and more colors, but the engine on this game just feels so right. I think the reason I play sims is for that 'true--I can see this happening' feeling, and TCY does it for me. I agree that there is a 'work' feeling in TCY, but it's worth it for the payoff. I still play it more than FOF2K4, even.

[FBPro]

Right now, I think BBCF is way better than TCY. I base this purely on the fun-factor.

Well, BBCF has only been out a month or so and I've already played it more than I've played TCY. The recruiting in TCY is BRUTAL, and letting the computer handle it has always made my team go downhill. In BBCF, I still let the computer handle it but it does quite a good job and keeps my team in good shape going on 12 or 13 seasons already.

[coachcbj]

Im amazed on how split people are. It funny tho because some peole say they like BBCF more because its so immersive. But other people like it more because you can make it do things for you. So people that like BBCF, like it for completely different reasons.

Again, I really want to like BBCF but TCY seems to just play more like College Football. If the playcalling was like TCY I probably would have already bought it.

No that likes BBCF, has a problem with the lack of plays? You cant run a exclusive offense system with it (like the option). Some plays you can right to the right but not the left. Now I know TCY just lets you plug in numbers and lets you watch. But if feels like watching a real coach call a game off my gameplan. Where if the I let BBCF coaches call my gameplan its all out of whack. Again just my opinion.

I wish there was a mix of the two. All the modding of BBCF with the functionallity of TCY. Ive been a Coach and AD for the past 8 years, and TCY just feels more real. If you dont liking having to handle it all like real life, then I guess you would like BBCF more. But if you want to play the Sims-College football, then you'd probably like TCY more.

Well, Im still undecided. I will probably purchase one or the other in the next 48 hours. So anyu more input would be great. Again Ive only played the demo of BBCF and played TCY years ago.

Thank you in advance for all your feedback. I was surprised, this hadnt been brought up b4.

[aran]

Even though i've actually played neither, i prefer BBCF. The HTML ouput is really nice and makes for easy-to-read dynasties. Also, the interface looks reasonable and the game seems to be quite immersive.

I have no idea why i bothered to post. :D

[Senator]

Then it is settled, pistols at dawn.

[Bee]

BBCF is obvouisly alot prettier to look at, but is that really what we look for in a text sim game? I know alot of people like the off-season recruiting better than in season. But in season is more realistic

I find BBCF prettier but more difficult to navigate. I really dislike the off-season recruiting, not just because of realism but also because it reduces decision making in the recruiting process IMO.

BBCF has all the modding you could want. But again I just dont think the engine is as reliable as TCY. BBCF is suppose to be alot more difficult to succeed, but TCY has difficulty levels.

The modding in BBCF is great and has the potential to add a lot to the game. I agree the engine for BBCF isn't as reliable as TCY. I think it's a little too early to say BBCF is more difficult. When TCY first came out a lot of people struggled with success. Over the years, people have learned the ins and outs of the game. I'd guess the same will be true for BBCF if it holds peoples interest for that long.

And now that TCY dropped their price. Its almost half the cost of BBCF.

Not an issue for me. This might be an issue for a college student or someone with no disposable income, but if saving $20 matters perhaps the person shouldn't be buying a game at all...

I know TCY is old but its still very solid isnt it? and BBCF isnt really finished product yet, for twice the cost. But it looks promising...

That pretty much sums it up IMO (other than the "twice the cost part" ;)). TCY is outdated, but a solid game. BBCF is promising, but isn't quite there yet.

[Noop]

I guess Jim is posting under a new name to get info... ;)

[Raiders Army]

Bought TCY and BBCF. Played TCY about a month and then not at all. Haven't played BBCF for more than 5 minutes.

[CraigSca]

I think Arlie does a great job with the visuals and making the game look beautiful, but I sometimes wonder whether there's a trade-off between, "wow, that interface looks neat" and interface functionality. They shouldn't be exclusive-ORs, but it seems like they are today.

It's almost like the state of EA joystick jockey games vs. text sims. In a perfect world, there can (and should) be the mergining of both worlds. Why can't EA create a game that's downright statisitically accurate without needing tweaking, massive mods, etc.? There's ALWAYS something screwed up.

I purchased BBCF and think it's light years ahead of TCY as far as sheer interface beauty. However, when I play the game I end up thinking to myself, "why did he spend all this time on the interface when the pbp text/polls/etc still has issues?" I end up not trusting the game underneath (what other quirky things are being done that I don't even see?) and I put it back on the shelf.

This is not to disparage any of the developers at all - the majority of my issues are probably just me. For some reason, I like the "idea" of immersion, but when forced to spend about 30 mins of time to simulate one week, I end up getting bored and it begins to feel more like work than fun. Personally, the whole concept of having a text sim, especially a career text-sim, is the ability to move through seasons faster than real-time if I want to, to see how my last move effected the overall team dynamic. I'm exagerrating here, but it seems like the recent offering of text sims is almost "real-time" franchise management and it just takes too much time for me.

[Cuckoo]

Bought TCY and BBCF. Played TCY about a month and then not at all. Haven't played BBCF for more than 5 minutes.

Interesting. I bought them both. Played TCY about a month or so and have continued to break it out on occasion, hoping that I'll really get into it. But it always seems like such a chore. I've played BBCF since it came out and have really enjoyed it the entire time.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree at all with those who say the TCY engine is better. And there are certainly bugs in BBCF that are irritating.

Honestly, for me, a lot of it comes down to recruiting. I really like the recruiting in BBCF and the fact that it's in the offseason. It drives me nuts in TCY, and I never get into the recruiting or the games because of it.

[George]

I enjoy both, but would give the nod to BBCF.

[Emiliano]

I bought TCY a couple of months after FOF2004, a game that I absolutely love. For some reasons, I've never enjoyed TCY as others here. I think that's because when I bought it, it was already an "old" game to me, confronted with the beauty of FOF2004. I've played careers, I liked it in the end, but it never "grew" on me.
BBCF it's a great piece of game. I mean, everyone can have his own personal opinion (you can/can't like the interface/recruiting/gameplanning/playcalling etc. etc.) but I think it's safe to say that it is a great product, for the various reasons cited in this thread.

If you have to buy one: BBCF. Otherwise, I'd suggest you to buy both games and then decide which one you like the most.

[Dutch]

Neither blows the other away. They both have their ups and downs. So which ever is newer wins in my book.

But both have one thing in common.

As Buccaneer likes to say, "Just one more turn!" is the pinnacle of any gaming experience.

I'm not sure either one is at that point yet.

[bhlloy]

My 2 cents - TCY feels like more of a solid sim that BBCF right now. The polls make sense and the results I see look a bit more college football. Recruiting, although much drier seems to be a bit more solid. Academic suspensions and injuries are more to my taste in TCY as well.

Don't get me wrong TCY had many flaws and even on the harder level was too easy to go down the academics route and build a powerhouse with almost any team in the game. But it felt more like college football IMO than BBCF does at this point.

Potentially, BBCF can blow TCY out of the water though with it's additional features if they are all working well. Looking forward to the upcoming enhancement and starting a proper career.

[Capital]

This coming from someone who has bought ever FOF, with the exception of the first one, and love FOF2K4, I just couldn't get into TCY. I only played it for about 8-10 season before the game just seemed like work. However, the same cannot be said about BBCF. I'm in year 20 of my career playing lowly Vanderbilt and play the game daily.

I sim all the games so I can't comment on the playcalling, but I control every other aspect of the game. I've enjoyed this game more than any game since WoW.

[coachcbj]

BBCF is obvouisly alot prettier to look at, but is that really what we look for in a text sim game? I know alot of people like the off-season recruiting better than in season. But in season is more realistic

I find BBCF prettier but more difficult to navigate. I really dislike the off-season recruiting, not just because of realism but also because it reduces decision making in the recruiting process IMO.

BBCF has all the modding you could want. But again I just dont think the engine is as reliable as TCY. BBCF is suppose to be alot more difficult to succeed, but TCY has difficulty levels.

The modding in BBCF is great and has the potential to add a lot to the game. I agree the engine for BBCF isn't as reliable as TCY. I think it's a little too early to say BBCF is more difficult. When TCY first came out a lot of people struggled with success. Over the years, people have learned the ins and outs of the game. I'd guess the same will be true for BBCF if it holds peoples interest for that long.

And now that TCY dropped their price. Its almost half the cost of BBCF.

Not an issue for me. This might be an issue for a college student or someone with no disposable income, but if saving $20 matters perhaps the person shouldn't be buying a game at all...

I know TCY is old but its still very solid isnt it? and BBCF isnt really finished product yet, for twice the cost. But it looks promising...

That pretty much sums it up IMO (other than the "twice the cost part" ;)). TCY is outdated, but a solid game. BBCF is promising, but isn't quite there yet.
Good observations. The money isnt a issue. But if their about even in quality why would I pay for the more expensive one? And the only reason I dont but both is I wouldnt play both. I tend to buy one sport game and stick to it. Like 2k football over Madden. But not both. (Remember when we had that choice!-still pisses me off.)

[coachcbj]

Lol, Im definately not Jim. I post on GreyDog all the time. I just started this post becuase I thought it was worth discussing and was surprised it hadnt been brought up yet.

I guess Jim is posting under a new name to get info... ;)

[coachcbj]

No one has a problem that BBCF has a playcalling system, but hardily any plays in each style of Offense?

[Easy Mac]

I just don't like the offseason recruiting in BBCF. It makes the recruiting list completely pointless, and completely changes the feeling of importance in the game. In TCY, if felt like it too your season as a whole into account, but it also made it feel like each game was important for recruiting. If I lost a game, it always seems like that 1 recruit who I had my eyes on might commit somewhere else. Yeah, maybe in the engine it had nothing to do with it, but 90% of the game engines out there are completely random anyway. With BBCF, it just feels like recruiting is completely unrelated to the game itself.

[sovereignstar]

I was a mad TCY player for different periods of time a few years ago. Now the recruiting does seem dry to me. I'd also like to know what is up with scouting view differences.

As for BBCF, I've played that "timewaster" game more. CraigSca pointed out some things that hold true with me - interface functionality and lack of trust in what's going on underneath the hood. cthomer pointed out one big thing that I like in FOF/TCY and don't like in BBCF and that's the ratings bars versus numbers going down vertically on the player card.

[Easy Mac]

I was a mad TCY player for different periods of time a few years ago. Now the recruiting does seem dry to me. I'd also like to know what is up with scouting view differences.

As for BBCF, I've played that "timewaster" game more. CraigSca pointed out some things that hold true with me - interface functionality and lack of trust in what's going on underneath the hood. cthomer pointed out one big thing that I like in FOF/TCY and don't like in BBCF and that's the ratings bars versus numbers going down vertically on the player card.yeah, bars for some reason help me not differerences better than straight numbers.

[coachcbj]

I just don't like the offseason recruiting in BBCF. It makes the recruiting list completely pointless, and completely changes the feeling of importance in the game. In TCY, if felt like it too your season as a whole into account, but it also made it feel like each game was important for recruiting. If I lost a game, it always seems like that 1 recruit who I had my eyes on might commit somewhere else. Yeah, maybe in the engine it had nothing to do with it, but 90% of the game engines out there are completely random anyway. With BBCF, it just feels like recruiting is completely unrelated to the game itself.Very, Very good Point! When you lose during the season, it affects recruiting. And you see it during the season. Now this might happen in BBCF, but you dont see the effects until after the season is over. Or not really at all, because all the recruiting takes place after the season.

Stanford plays Cal, the player is interested in both schools. Cal wins, player commits to them instead of Stanford. Thats College football and you dont get that in BBCF.

[coachcbj]

I was a mad TCY player for different periods of time a few years ago. Now the recruiting does seem dry to me. I'd also like to know what is up with scouting view differences.

As for BBCF, I've played that "timewaster" game more. CraigSca pointed out some things that hold true with me - interface functionality and lack of trust in what's going on underneath the hood. cthomer pointed out one big thing that I like in FOF/TCY and don't like in BBCF and that's the ratings bars versus numbers going down vertically on the player card.
Yes I have to admit, The rating are mucher easier to look at than BBCF. Maybe thats what some people mean by BBCF looking messy.

[Eaglesfan27]

While I agree the bars are easier to look at, I think BBCF's ratings are much better. I love being able to get a view of a guy's basic athletic abilities such as strength, speed, agility, etc. Rather than just having a few ratings, I can tell if my HB is likely going to be a great outside runner, inside runner, or the rare guy who will be good at both. TCY's ratings are too simplistic for me at this point, however, I loved them at the time when it came out.

[rjolley]

I just don't like the offseason recruiting in BBCF. It makes the recruiting list completely pointless, and completely changes the feeling of importance in the game. In TCY, if felt like it too your season as a whole into account, but it also made it feel like each game was important for recruiting. If I lost a game, it always seems like that 1 recruit who I had my eyes on might commit somewhere else. Yeah, maybe in the engine it had nothing to do with it, but 90% of the game engines out there are completely random anyway. With BBCF, it just feels like recruiting is completely unrelated to the game itself.Very well said. That's exactly the feeling I get during the season. One of the big things in college recruiting is bring in players during game week, especially big games. The players get the feel of the atmosphere in the stadium, the electricity of the crowd, meet some boosters, and have a good time. Also, a win or loss hould affect a recruit's interest. With just offseason recruiting, it doesn't feel like it does. It may not in TCY, but at least the illusion is there. For me, the ay BBCF doe it hurts the immersion factor.

I like both games, but both have their issues. I'll buy BBCF today to enjoy and to support GDS and Arlie. It is a quality game. Time will tell if it is as good over time as TCY has been. It's off to a good start, though.

[MizzouRah]

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=45745&highlight=BBCF

Similar thread... but I don't think it's been asked directly before due to the face TCY is an old game and BBCF just came out.

I've played both and really liked TCY except for recruiting which I couldn't stand. In fact, if it wasn't for TCY helper, I don't think I could have gotten through a season. I love recruiting at the end of the season as I like to concentrate on my team during the season, to each his own.

I'd give the nod to BBCF, the immersion is there and I love the interface of the game.

[Dutch]

Would you believe it if I said I like the TCY interface a lot more than than the BBCF interface?

[Easy Mac]

Would you believe it if I said I like the TCY interface a lot more than than the BBCF interface?
yes

[sovereignstar]

Would you believe it if I said I like the TCY interface a lot more than than the BBCF interface?

Very much so.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Would you believe it if I said I like the TCY interface a lot more than than the BBCF interface?
easily.

[MJ4H]

Would you believe it if I said I like the TCY interface a lot more than than the BBCF interface?

Sure I would. Would you believe me if I said I didn't? I'd hate it if we everyone on the planet like the same things. Boring world.

[CraigSca]

One thing I will point out that I like about BBCF vs. TCY is BBCF's off-season recruiting. There are times you need to make difficult decisions from a playability perspective. I think putting the recruiting at the END of the season to be the right choice.

For me, I think there's a HUGE difference between playability and realism. There are certain things that a developer has to look at and say, "yes, this is realistic, but am I taking the fun out of it?" Original FB was to have trades between the player GM and other GM take several days and take multiple iterations to get the deals done. Well - that may be realistic, but that fact that I need to write multiple trade requests, wait for the opposing GM to get back to me, then update my trades, etc., just makes the game tedious. Not everything has to be completely realistic in these games - there's a give and take between fun and "well, as a GM I need to have my lawyers write up a contract with certain language pertaining to injuries" - there's a differentiation here.

[sovereignstar]

FB = Franchise Baseball for the many that probably have no clue. :)

[CraigSca]

My apologies for that...

[kiwiLB57]

I love TCY. The only thing that consistently does my head in and usually leads to a hiatus from the game is the time management module. This kills me. The rest, incl in-season recruiting (which is a game within a game for me), is just superb.