Thinking about moving to Seattle

[Galaril]

I am from and have been living in the Massachusetts/Boston area for most of my life and am thinking about moving. I am in IT and my wife is asian(Korea) so, we are looking at moving out to Seattle in a couple of years. I was curious to here from anyone who lives there, is from there and especially ex-east coaster who have moved out. We are looking to buy a house out there so any information related to the housing market there would be great. Also, as I mentioned my wife is asian as well as our kids(well half) and have heard Seattle is fairly diverse cultural/ethnically. Boston is diverse but I am starting to get what people are saying about being rather racist here.The only thing that worries us is the weather with the constant rain. Also, we are big on skiing/snowboarding so would like to find a place that has that as an option. Does Washington state get much snow? Seattle area?Thanks ahead.

[Buccaneer]

Does Washington state get much snow?
LOL, considering the record snowiest spot in the US is not from Seattle. Think about it. You get all of these massive, moisture-laden Pacific storms coming out of the Gulf of Alaska and and the first landfall it makes are the Olympic Range and the huge Cascade Mountains, as well as the further up north in BC and Whistler.

Also, I'll give a clue about rain. Boston gets more rain/precip than Seattle.

[Crapshoot]

I am from and have been living in the Massachusetts/Boston area for most of my life and am thinking about moving. I am in IT and my wife is asian(Korea) so, we are looking at moving out to Seattle in a couple of years. I was curious to here from anyone who lives there, is from there and especially ex-east coaster who have moved out. We are looking to buy a house out there so any information related to the housing market there would be great. Also, as I mentioned my wife is asian as well as our kids(well half) and have heard Seattle is fairly diverse cultural/ethnically. Boston is diverse but I am starting to get what people are saying about being rather racist here.The only thing that worries us is the weather with the constant rain. Also, we are big on skiing/snowboarding so would like to find a place that has that as an option. Does Washington state get much snow? Seattle area?Thanks ahead.

Racism - here ? I'm Indian, and haven't encountered anything of the sort in Boston, but fair enough. I have a few friends out there, and they all love Seattle - great town. Plus, no more goddamn 5% MA state income tax.

[Chuck]

try this

http://www.bestplaces.net/city/compare_Boston_MA_to_Seattle_WA?CLIMATE

[chinaski]

I am from and have been living in the Massachusetts/Boston area for most of my life and am thinking about moving. I am in IT and my wife is asian(Korea) so, we are looking at moving out to Seattle in a couple of years. I was curious to here from anyone who lives there, is from there and especially ex-east coaster who have moved out. We are looking to buy a house out there so any information related to the housing market there would be great. Also, as I mentioned my wife is asian as well as our kids(well half) and have heard Seattle is fairly diverse cultural/ethnically. Boston is diverse but I am starting to get what people are saying about being rather racist here.The only thing that worries us is the weather with the constant rain. Also, we are big on skiing/snowboarding so would like to find a place that has that as an option. Does Washington state get much snow? Seattle area?Thanks ahead.I lived there a good chunk of my life, been to all the states and I still consider the Northwest the greatest part of the country. However, I dont see myself ever moving back to Seattle, for the following reasons...

1. Expensive. Housing market is insane, all suburban areas are heavily developed.. strip malls everywhere. When you say Seattle, do you really mean in the city? You dont really live in Seattle, most people live in the surronding cities... Redmond, Bellevue, Bothell, Kirkland etc. If you were to buy a home in or around downtown Seattle, youre looking at 650k to start easily. Definitely check out Redmond. Close to the city and is still developing. My GF's mother bought a townhouse in Redmond 6 years ago for 60k, now its worth 280k. Redmond is typically the "nicer" suburb of Seattle, many Microsoft employees. Stay faaar from Tacoma.

2. Traffic. Enough said, its BAD. really, really bad. Its worse than LA, i know its hard to believe, buts its worse.

3. Coming from Boston, this probably wont matter too you, but the the whole area (Seattle, Redmond, Kirkland, Bellevue, Bothell) is just one major metropolis. Its not a "quaint" place to live, its a big ass city nowadays. The infrastructure of the city wasnt designed well at all, it was not layed out to handle the current size of the city. Crazy roads, nothing is laid out sensical.

If you can handle a major city with crazy traffic and insane housing prices, then seriously, Seattle is for you. Its a great place to live, the people are very laid back, no racist stigma whatsoever and to top it off I believe Seattle has one of the highest Asian population in the USA. Great sports town, amazing food and the city itself is one of the most beautiful you will ever see. You really cant beat the Puget Sound, Lake Washington and the Olympic Peninsula. Some of the best camping, fishing, hunting, skiing in the entire country is right there. Dont worry about snowboarding, many many places just an hour out of Seattle for that. Snoqualmie Pass is top notch. The Pass gets a lot of snow during the winter. Also by being in Washington, youre much closer to all the great places to ski in Oregon, Colorado and Canada.

I highly recommend you live in Seattle... but if you want pretty much the same expereince but a much slower speed, check out Portland Oregon too. Its everything Seattle is, minus the 3 Seattle negatives I laid out.

Good luck!

[Galaril]

LOL, considering the record snowiest spot in the US is not from Seattle. Think about it. You get all of these massive, moisture-laden Pacific storms coming out of the Gulf of Alaska and and the first landfall it makes are the Olympic Range and the huge Cascade Mountains, as well as the further up north in BC and Whistler.

Also, I'll give a clue about rain. Boston gets more rain/precip than Seattle.

Well, good point but what I understood about Seattle was due to Pudget Sound most of the snow was further out in eastern washington.

[Lorena]

try this

http://www.bestplaces.net/

I love this site! When comparing Phoenix to Austin, TX, we used this site quite a bit to make a decision in our move.

[Galaril]

I lived there a good chunk of my life, been to all the states and I still consider the Northwest the greatest part of the country. However, I dont see myself ever moving back to Seattle, for the following reasons...

1. Expensive. Housing market is insane, all suburban areas are heavily developed.. strip malls everywhere. When you say Seattle, do you really mean in the city? You dont really live in Seattle, most people live in the surronding cities... Redmond, Bellevue, Bothell, Kirkland etc. If you were to buy a home in or around downtown Seattle, youre looking at 650k to start easily. Definitely check out Redmond. Close to the city and is still developing. My GF's mother bought a townhouse in Redmond 6 years ago for 60k, now its worth 280k. Redmond is typically the "nicer" suburb of Seattle, many Microsoft employees. Stay faaar from Tacoma.

2. Traffic. Enough said, its BAD. really, really bad. Its worse than LA, i know its hard to believe, buts its worse.

3. Coming from Boston, this probably wont matter too you, but the the whole area (Seattle, Redmond, Kirkland, Bellevue, Bothell) is just one major metropolis. Its not a "quaint" place to live, its a big ass city nowadays. The infrastructure of the city wasnt designed well at all, it was not layed out to handle the current size of the city. Crazy roads, nothing is laid out sensical.

If you can handle a major city with crazy traffic and insane housing prices, then seriously, Seattle is for you. Its a great place to live, the people are very laid back, no racist stigma whatsoever and to top it off I believe Seattle has one of the highest Asian population in the USA. Great sports town, amazing food and the city itself is one of the most beautiful you will ever see. You really cant beat the Puget Sound, Lake Washington and the Olympic Peninsula. Some of the best camping, fishing, hunting, skiing in the entire country is right there. Dont worry about snowboarding, many many places just an hour out of Seattle for that. Snoqualmie Pass is top notch. The Pass gets a lot of snow during the winter. Also by being in Washington, youre much closer to all the great places to ski in Oregon, Colorado and Canada.

I highly recommend you live in Seattle... but if you want pretty much the same expereince but a much slower speed, check out Portland Oregon too. Its everything Seattle is, minus the 3 Seattle negatives I laid out.

Good luck!


Thanks alot of good honest info. When I say Seattle I am saying in the area being up to say 30-50 miles out is fine. The traffic and overcrowding is disconcerning. You mention Portland but I have heard it is laways raining and not a place to get much snow just tons of rain. As you can see wheer we live has to have snow at least some.

[scooter]

We may not get a lot of rain, but we have a lot of gray, drizzly days. Today is an example. It will look very depressing out all day with gray, cloudy skies and light rain or mist and we will only accumulate about .05" of rain. But it isn't like that year-round. If it were, no one would live here! The beautiful, sunny days are why people live here - mountains, water, always green.

We do get snow, but usually only in the mountains. There are numerous ski areas within a few hours drive of Seattle. We have been having some strange weather the last couple of years though. Last year one of the local ski resorts was only open for about 14 days because we just didn't get any snow. This year, I think they have gotten about 5-6 feet of snow just since New Year's Day.

Things are fairly diverse here - more Asian than African-American. There are some pockets of Seattle and the suburbs that are like small asian communities with signs to businesses in only Korean or Vietnamese, etc.

Housing is expensive, but where isn't that the case. I would think it would be comparable to Boston. Traffic is also bad (although I remember Boston traffic as being no picnic either). The Seattle area continues to grow in population, but with the mountains and the water there are limited places for the city to grow. If you are looking for entry-level housing, you will probably want to look around the perimeter of the suburbs (either north or south). Houses in some of the more established areas closer to downtown can get expensive quickly.

I grew up in the Chicago area and moved out here in '94. I left because of the cold winters and the humid summers. I also loved the activities and beauty of the area out here. My family all lives back in the Midwest, but they love to come visit because they love it out here too.

[scooter]

Thanks alot of good honest info. When I say Seattle I am saying in the area being up to say 30-50 miles out is fine. The traffic and overcrowding is disconcerning. You mention Portland but I have heard it is laways raining and not a place to get much snow just tons of rain. As you can see wheer we live has to have snow at least some.

We don't get much snow here, but Snoqualmie Pass is an hour away and they get plenty there. We really don't want snow down here. It's too hilly and the least bit of snow shuts down the city. I grew up driving in the snow in the Midwest and I don't even go out in it. I can't get up the hill of my street to get out of my subdivision (even with 4-wheel drive) if it's snowed. But snow acitivities like skiing, snowboarding, snowshoing, etc. are all just a short drive away.

Portland is a cool city as well. They have Mt. Hood close by for their skiing needs. It's a quieter city than Seattle. They only have the Trailblazers for sports. It is a growing city though - expecially with as expensive as things have gotten around here. They are also only about 2 hours from the Oregon coast.

[Galaril]

We will be looking at buying a house in the range of 400-500k. Maybe a little more. But, of course the cost of living affects salaries as well. That is one thing in the Boston area salaries are pretty high and am not sure if I would get a comparable one in the Northwest?

[Lorena]

We will be looking at buying a house in the range of 400-500k. Maybe a little more. But, of course the cost of living affects salaries as well. That is one thing in the Boston area salaries are pretty high and am not sure if I would get a comparable one in the Northwest?


http://www.bestplaces.net/col/

[scooter]

The east side of Lake Washington is probably where you will want to look. The corridor from Woodinville down to Renton (including Kirkland, Bellevue and Redmond) would probably be where I would start. Bring up Realtor.com, plug in your price range and start picking town names along that corridor. That should give you an idea of what is currently available to see if it's what you are looking for.

As for a job searching source, I've never used it, but I've heard this site advertised on tv:

http://marketplace.nwsource.com/jobs/

I know there are lots of computer and technology companies based here, so you should be able to find something that would work for you.

[clintl]

I'm never lived in them, but I spent 6 weeks in Seattle a number of years ago, and I have friends and relatives in the Portland area that I visit every few years. I love both areas. However, if you want to actually live in a place that gets a substantial amount of snow (as opposed to being relatively close, like an hour or so away), you are not going to find a major metropolitan area on the West Coast like that. That's just not how the climate works out here. You have to get into the mountains.

[korme]

to top it off I believe Seattle has one of the highest Asian population in the USA.That settles it. I'm roadtripping to Seattle.

[Jesse_Ewiak]

Shorty, just because you look 12, they won't give you a discount for the Happy Ending.

[st.cronin]

Almost anyplace is better to live than Boston, imo.

[tanglewood]

Remember to take your own bed, I hear they suck over there.

[gstelmack]

Plus, no more goddamn 5% MA state income tax.
It ain't the 5% income tax that's killing you in MA. We've got 7% here in NC and I can promise you that I pay FAR less of my income to taxes than my family living in MA does.

[path12]

Lots of good info above. As a native, my 3 pros and cons:

Pro: 1) Summer starts late (4th of July) but is usually nice into late September/early October. For that time, there's no more beautiful place to live. Mountains on both sides and the Sound in between.

2) All the stadiums are nice: Safeco, Qwest field and Husky Stadium each rock in it's own way.

3) It's a literate, well-educated city. Definitely liberal, but coming from Boston that shouldn't be any different.

Cons:

1) The traffic absolutely sucks. It's as bad as everyone says. The city is shaped like an hourglass and downtown is in the narrowest part. Coming over from the eastside you've got two bridges so it's easy for backup there also.

2) I hear this from friends who have moved here: while Seattleites are polite, they are not particularly friendly and eager to draw you in. There's a kind of reserve that can take awhile to get past.

3) Other than that glorious period between July 4th and early October, be prepared for gray skies. That's the challenge of living here -- it's one thing to have cold sunny days, but week upon week of gray will get to you. Be prepared for it.

[Desnudo]

I lived there a good chunk of my life, been to all the states and I still consider the Northwest the greatest part of the country. However, I dont see myself ever moving back to Seattle, for the following reasons...

1. Expensive. Housing market is insane, all suburban areas are heavily developed.. strip malls everywhere. When you say Seattle, do you really mean in the city? You dont really live in Seattle, most people live in the surronding cities... Redmond, Bellevue, Bothell, Kirkland etc. If you were to buy a home in or around downtown Seattle, youre looking at 650k to start easily. Definitely check out Redmond. Close to the city and is still developing. My GF's mother bought a townhouse in Redmond 6 years ago for 60k, now its worth 280k. Redmond is typically the "nicer" suburb of Seattle, many Microsoft employees. Stay faaar from Tacoma.

2. Traffic. Enough said, its BAD. really, really bad. Its worse than LA, i know its hard to believe, buts its worse.

3. Coming from Boston, this probably wont matter too you, but the the whole area (Seattle, Redmond, Kirkland, Bellevue, Bothell) is just one major metropolis. Its not a "quaint" place to live, its a big ass city nowadays. The infrastructure of the city wasnt designed well at all, it was not layed out to handle the current size of the city. Crazy roads, nothing is laid out sensical.

If you can handle a major city with crazy traffic and insane housing prices, then seriously, Seattle is for you. Its a great place to live, the people are very laid back, no racist stigma whatsoever and to top it off I believe Seattle has one of the highest Asian population in the USA. Great sports town, amazing food and the city itself is one of the most beautiful you will ever see. You really cant beat the Puget Sound, Lake Washington and the Olympic Peninsula. Some of the best camping, fishing, hunting, skiing in the entire country is right there. Dont worry about snowboarding, many many places just an hour out of Seattle for that. Snoqualmie Pass is top notch. The Pass gets a lot of snow during the winter. Also by being in Washington, youre much closer to all the great places to ski in Oregon, Colorado and Canada.

I highly recommend you live in Seattle... but if you want pretty much the same expereince but a much slower speed, check out Portland Oregon too. Its everything Seattle is, minus the 3 Seattle negatives I laid out.

Good luck!

I feel like a couple of things you say, while somewhat accurate, are also somewhat inaccurate.

1. Housing is expensive, but it's much less expensive then Boston. You can still find plenty of housing, especially in places like Ballard, for much less than $650,000. Not much house for the buck, but you can find smaller houses with yards for 350-400K. It's one of the few cities I've ever seen that has more houses with yards than concrete apartment buildings within the downtown radius.

Agree with the stip mall aspect, which I think is a function of the West Coast. However, within an hour of the city, you can still find plenty of country living. Living in Redmond is all well and good, but it's a completely different life than life in Seattle. I would liken living in Seattle to a poor man's San Francisco, while living on the East Side (Redmond, Bellevue) is more like living in Orange County.

2. Traffic is horrible depending on your commute. If you need to get to Redmond from practically anywhere, you are screwed. However, there are commutes, like working downtown and living N-S of the city, that are manageable if you know the backroads. Agree that overall the traffic situation is horrible, and the government seems to do nothing about it. Be ready for pie in the sky transportation projects with no major benefit.

3. Seattle has a small city feel to it. Metro Seattle is certainly the classic West Coast sprawl model, but you can drive around and find parking in the downtown area. Things are very easy to access. Compared to a hustle-and-bustle East Coast city, it's very mellow.

From a racism perspective, I understand where you are coming from having lived in Boston. It's not necessarily overt anymore, but there's certainly that aspect. It was one of the things I found irritating about living there (do as I say, not as I do liberals).

Seattle is probably as non-racist as any city I've seen, though it's also a pretty white city. I can go for days without seing a black person, although there's a fair amount of asians.

[Buccaneer]

From an urban geography perspective, I am curious as to some of the comments. Seattle does not exhibit your classic West Coast/Front Sprawl. The two closest comparisons are other NW cities, Portland and the Bay Area. It does not have the geography that allow for LA/Orange County, San Diego County, SLC, Denver, San Jose or Spokane. In an area of many lakes/water bodies and trees, it comes to the model of the East Coast cities - except everything is newer, better made and much cleaner. That have driven up cost because of the desireability demand (same for the Bay Area), not because of Boston where the extraordinarily high prices are driven by the wide gap between the too few nice place and the large extents of not-so-nice area.

[Desnudo]

Drive five miles north of town, and it's sprawlsville. The east side of Lake Washington (Bellevue, Redmond, Issaquah) exhibits all the characteristics of Orange County: planned housing, wide streets, unwalkable, must drive everywhere; including the Californians.

[Buccaneer]

Hmm..can someone go to sprawlcity.org and tell me the current rankings (I can't see the site)? It's been a while since I've read similar studies.

[Desnudo]

I have no idea what the stats say. I'm just telling you what I see with my eyes every day.

[Buccaneer]

I have no idea what the stats say. I'm just telling you what I see with my eyes every day.
But it has to have a basis for comparison. How many other cities have you lived in or spent extended periods of time in?

[Desnudo]

My mother lives in Orange County. I've lived or worked practically everywhere except Alaska and the Dakotas.

It's a pretty common joke around Seattle that the east side is either Bellywood or Orange County, WA. One difference I can see though is that every single square inch of land does not have something on it around here.

[Buccaneer]

Understood.

[dawgfan]

Some good comments here already, but I'll put in my $0.02 as well...

Housing is expensive, but it's not as expensive as Boston. You can find houses with yards in the $350-400K range in many of the neighborhoods in the city limits. If you're willing to live in a townhouse, you can find quite a few options in that range that are new construction.

Traffic is real bad. As noted, geographically the city is fucked - it's an hourglass shape with the waist in the middle of downtown, and it's quite hilly. The city has Elliott Bay on the West and Lake Washington on the East, with only one major freeway running North-South. Aside from the floating bridges crossing Lake Washington, there really is no East-West freeways in the city. The major North-South freeway along the Eastside is also saturated with traffic. With the huge growth on the Eastside (anything east of the Lake) spurred by Microsoft, the two floating bridges that cross the lake are very busy as well. For a multitude of reasons, rapid transit has been slow to take hold in Seattle, with our first light-rail line finally beginning construction this year, but it will only run from a little bit north of downtown down to the airport. Word of advice - if you must cross the lake for your job, it's better to live on the Eastside and work in Downtown Seattle than the reverse.

Seattle has some great neighborhoods. Being a native, I've always vastly preferred Seattle to the suburbs - there's just way more character in the city than out in the 'burbs. There's a good International District just south and east of Downtown, tucked up right next to the football and baseball stadiums.

Weather is good and bad - while we don't get as much rain in volume as Boston or New York, we have more rainy days. Seattle rain is usually more a light mist. There aren't a lot of really heavy rain kind of days, but there are a lot of gray days in the Winter and early Spring. But when the city wakes up from the gray days, it's amazing. The weather can be an issue for some people psychologically, as some people get Seasonal Affective Disorder here due to the frequent gray days and short daylight hours in the Winter.

In the summer it's great though - usually in the high 70's to mid 80's, sometimes creeping above 90 but not often, sunny skies. With our northern latitude we also get long summer days.

The population is mostly white - I think the Asian population is probably the highest minority group in the area. People are polite but tend to be more reserved and closed-off than people from other parts of the country, so don't be offended if it takes a little longer to develop a lot of friendships here.

It doesn't snow in the city very often (it's rare to have snow stick overnight in Seattle) but as you move east towards the Cascade mountains the snowfall accumulates rapidly. There is plenty of skiing/boarding nearby, with Snoqualmie Summit the closest to town (about an hour east on I-90) and Stevens Pass and Crystal Mountain about 1.5-2 hours away and Mt. Baker 2.5 hours away. Whistler/Blackcomb is about a 5 hour drive north into British Columbia, and it's frequently cited as the top ski resort in North America. The amount of square footage and vertical at the two peaks combined with the village at the base make it a must-visit if you live in the area.

The Pacific Northwest is a very outdoors-oriented area, what with the range of activities available: skiing/boarding, nordic skiing, mountain climbing, rock climbing, hiking, fishing, rafting/kayaking, sailing, powerboating, water skiing - pretty much any kind of outdoor activity you can think of is done here.

The state itself is very diverse and offers a wide range of geographic and climate variation, from the temperate rainforests at the western base of the Olympic Mountains, the wet evergreen terrain of the Puget Sound basin, the Cascade Mountains with permanently glaciated volcanoes, the drier eastern Cascade slope evergreen forests, the irrigated farming lands east of the Cascades fed from the Columbia River, the spectacular gorges, coulees and canyons in Eastern Washington and the wheat fields of the Palouse.

You're a short 3-hour drive from Vancouver, B.C. which some would argue is an even prettier city than Seattle and boasts a more cosmopolitan/international feel and is probably even more Asian-centric than Seattle. Also 3-hours away is Portland to the south, which has many similarities to Vancouver and Seattle but isn't quite as large. The traffic situation in Portland is better than Seattle due both to geographic advantages and a light-rail system that has been in place for over a decade. Portland has many of the same benefits as Seattle in terms of outdoor activities (Mt. Hood is something like an hour or so away for skiing/boarding). The weather there is similar to Seattle, though a little more extreme - it tends to get a little hotter there than Seattle and a little colder, and they are more likely to get snow that sticks than Seattle. Housing is a little cheaper, but it's getting expensive there as well.

[Buccaneer]

By the way, here's the list

<TABLE borderColor=#000000 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=360 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left>1. Atlanta, GA</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle>701.7</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#edfded>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>2. Houston, TX</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ebffeb>638.7</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#edfded>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>3. New York City-N.E. New Jersey</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ffffff>541.3 </TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>4. Washington, DC-MD-VA </TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ebffeb>450.1</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>5. Philadelphia, PA</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ffffff>412.4</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>6. Los Angeles, CA</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ebffeb>393.8</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>7. Dallas-Fort Worth, TX</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ffffff>372.4</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>8. Tampa-St.Petersburg-Clearwater, FL </TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ebffeb>358.7</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>9. Phoenix, AZ</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ffffff>353.6</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>10. Minneapolis-Saint Paul, MN</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ebffeb>341.6</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>11. San Diego, CA</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ffffff>309.5</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>12. Oklahoma City, OK </TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ebffeb>307.7</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>13. Chicago, IL - N.W. Indiana</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ffffff>307.3</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>14. Baltimore, MD</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ebffeb>282.9</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>15. Kansas City, MO-KS</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ffffff>268.6</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>16. Saint Louis, MO-IL</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ebffeb>267.6</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>17. Orlando, FL</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ffffff>262.9</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>18. Detroit, MI</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ebffeb>247.4</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>19. Boston, MA</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ffffff>226.8</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>20. Norfolk-Virginia Beach-Newport News, VA</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ebffeb>221.4</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>21. San Antonio, TX</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ffffff>215.1</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>22. San Francisco-Oakland, CA</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ebffeb>193.1</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>23. Austin, TX</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ffffff>187.4</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>24. Pittsburgh, PA</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ebffeb>181.7</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>25. Cincinnati, OH-KY</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ffffff>176.6</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>26. Seattle, WA</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ebffeb>174.8</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>27. Birmingham, AL</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ffffff>174.2</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>28. West Palm Beach-Boca Raton, FL </TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ebffeb>170.2</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff>29. Denver, CO</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ffffff>166.0</TD><TD vAlign=center align=right bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapr.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>http://www.sprawlcity.org/images/tablecapl.gif</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ebffeb>30. Richmond, VA</TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle bgColor=#ebffeb>158.1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Lorena]

By the way, here's the list

What kind of list is this again?

Thx

[Schmidty]

I have not read anything other than the title of the thread, but my immediate answer would be: NO.

Now of course, if you don't mind 8 months of constant rain, 4 months of drought, and generally speaking, a region of closed-minded, one-sided, politically centered commies, then yes you should. :)

[Buccaneer]

What kind of list is this again?

Thx
Sorry. Here's the header

100 Largest U.S. Urbanized Areas ranked
by square miles of sprawl (1970-1990)

I would guess that Seattle has moved up on the list quite a bit but still not in the top 10.

[Desnudo]

What exactly is a square mile of sprawl? It looks like that is a list of the most populous metro areas. I actually think that the immediate area around Seattle, say a five mile radius, is the nicest of any medium-large city I've been too. As soon as you get outside that ring, it's just like anywhere else with more greenery.

[Desnudo]

I have not read anything other than the title of the thread, but my immediate answer would be: NO.

Now of course, if you don't mind 8 months of constant rain, 4 months of drought, and generally speaking, a region of closed-minded, one-sided, politically centered commies, then yes you should. :)

Yes, but you live in Bellingham. If Seattle is China, then Bellingham is North Korea. Although I will grant you I've been tempted to ram more than a few Suburus that still have half a dozen John Kerry stickers on.

[sterlingice]

Sorry. Here's the header

100 Largest U.S. Urbanized Areas ranked
by square miles of sprawl (1970-1990)

I would guess that Seattle has moved up on the list quite a bit but still not in the top 10.Wow. Someone beat out Houston. Houston just goes on for miles- nothing builds up there, it's all building out.

SI

[WSUCougar]

If Seattle is China, then Bellingham is North Korea.
*snicker*

By the way, I was born and raised in Bellevue, and then quickly fled after college (and after seeing the beast the Eastside had become). :mad:

[dawgfan]

I would guess that Seattle has moved up on the list quite a bit but still not in the top 10.
I'm not sure Seattle has moved up that much. Like any major metropolitan area, there is sprawl - but geographic considerations and political ones combine to provide some limitations. Seattle and King County are putting some effort into limiting suburban development and concentrate density in the city. All around the city I'm seeing more and more cases of older houses being torn down and replaced by townhouse construction, doubling and even tripling housing availability within those former house lots, while at the same time regulations are making it harder for developers to clear land for new development.

[Buccaneer]

I'm not sure Seattle has moved up that much. Like any major metropolitan area, there is sprawl - but geographic considerations and political ones combine to provide some limitations. Seattle and King County are putting some effort into limiting suburban development and concentrate density in the city. All around the city I'm seeing more and more cases of older houses being torn down and replaced by townhouse construction, doubling and even tripling housing availability within those former house lots, while at the same time regulations are making it harder for developers to clear land for new development.
I think you articulated my original point in a better way.