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saldana
01-25-2006, 01:30 AM
This is the first thing in 10 years of being their customer that has made be think seriously about going back to cable.

Starting March 1, you will no longer be able to purchase DirecTV receivers. Any time you want to get a new receiver, or if you are a new customer getting a receiver for the first time, you are going to have to lease the receiver from DirecTV, and of course pay an additional fee for this.

IMO, the asses at DTV have decided to become nothing better than a cable company, and since they have no one to fight them for their market share, they are just going to do what ever they want because no one can stop them. Their rationale is that doing the new pay even more for a box that you dont own is that this will allow them to offer upgrades and exchanges on the receivers. If that is the case, I will be making them send me a new receiver every couple months just to piss them off.

The moron of a customer service rep i just talked to on the phone only found out about the new policy TODAY, so not only are they completely screwing those of us that prefer to own our own equipment, they are not even going to tell us about it until it is already a done deal (although i guess this is a pretty hot topic on some newsgroups)

I plan on calling DTV tommorow and ripping into their customer complaint department for this and several other reasons. I also intend on telling every person that i have referred to DTV in the last 10 years to do the same if they think this is as much bull shit as I do. (that would also be the point of this thread)

rexallllsc
01-25-2006, 02:11 AM
I've been disappointed lately, too. I wanted a DirecTv DVR, but they say I MUST have a landline so I can get the product upgrades. Apparently this isn't even completely true, but the people who work in the support centers are fed a line of crap and will not sell one to me otherwise.

In this day and age of cell and IP phones - you must have a landline for a DVR? Nuts.

Mr. Wednesday
01-25-2006, 02:15 AM
Glad I didn't wait six more months to get DTV, then. As it is, I own my receiver free and clear and I effectively paid a minimal charge for it thanks to the rebate.

saldana
01-25-2006, 02:17 AM
Glad I didn't wait six more months to get DTV, then. As it is, I own my receiver free and clear and I effectively paid a minimal charge for it thanks to the rebate.
as my pissed off with them threshold continues to increase, about 20 minutes ago i realized i just "bought" a new HD receiver from them...they gave me a 200 dollar rebate that i only get if i keep the hd service for 2 years.

i also looked at what my local cable company offers, and it essentially blows in terms of channels actually delivered in digital.

Lathum
01-25-2006, 02:25 AM
plus you need direct TV. Otherwise where would I watch football on sundays?

Raiders Army
01-25-2006, 05:13 AM
I've been disappointed lately, too. I wanted a DirecTv DVR, but they say I MUST have a landline so I can get the product upgrades. Apparently this isn't even completely true, but the people who work in the support centers are fed a line of crap and will not sell one to me otherwise.

In this day and age of cell and IP phones - you must have a landline for a DVR? Nuts.
I can confirm that the landline isn't true as well. Back in 2001 when I first got DirecTv, they wanted me to have my landline hooked into my box (non-DVR...just a vanilla box). I asked them why, and the excuse was that they needed to confirm my location to see if any sporting events should be blacked out. I told them that unless the El Paso Diablos were going to be televised, the only thing that would concern them is the Sun Bowl (which is never blacked out, I think). The real reason why they want you to do it is to see if you're pirating any of their broadcasts. I never hooked up my phone line.

After we moved, I haven't hooked up the phone line. The only thing is that we can't order PPVs or movies, neither of which I care about.

Tekneek
01-25-2006, 05:20 AM
The lease fees will not cost you more on your monthly bill than extra receivers currently do. There will be no lease fee for your first receiver, and the lease fees for additional receivers are supposed to be the same as the current "mirroring fee."

The downside to this is that purchasing receivers, which you will likely still be able to do, will be very expensive because DirecTV won't be subsidizing the expense anymore (the prices we've all been buying receivers and DVRs for were not the real prices).

Of bigger news will be the price increase that goes into effect at the same time as this change. Do you all already know about that?

For existing customers, Total Choice Plus will go up $3. HD package comes down $1. For new customers, TC+ (w/ locals) will be $49.99 and w/o locals will be $46.99.

You can view a letter that was sent to retailers with the details, that I've temporarily grabbed and thrown up on my own site (http://www.theglycerintekneek.com/directv increase.pdf)...

ice4277
01-25-2006, 06:14 AM
plus you need direct TV. Otherwise where would I watch football on sundays?
A sports bar?

wade moore
01-25-2006, 06:55 AM
A sports bar?
Hooters?

Ksyrup
01-25-2006, 06:58 AM
as my pissed off with them threshold continues to increase, about 20 minutes ago i realized i just "bought" a new HD receiver from them...they gave me a 200 dollar rebate that i only get if i keep the hd service for 2 years.
Maybe you aren't explaining yourself very well here, but if I'm reading this correctly, are you telling me you thought you were getting a $200 rebate for nothing? Are you familiar with discounted cell phones, where you only get the discount if you sign a 1 or 2 year deal? That didn't cross your mind? You expected something for nothing?

Re: the receivers, I've had the same receiver in our bedroom since we got DTV about 5 years ago, and a relatively new one in the living room when the old one blew. So frankly I don't care about the leasing thing. I might go out and buy a new receiver for the bedroom, though, to upgrade it before I can no longer buy them or the price increases (if I understand what's going to happen as of 3/1).

Ksyrup
01-25-2006, 07:02 AM
Re: the price increase, I haven't kept up with all of the DTV price increases over the past couple of years, but I don't expect service to stay the same price forever. Unless I see that the prices have gone up $3-5 every 6-12 months or so for a couple of years, I don't really have an issue with the increase, either.

Tekneek
01-25-2006, 07:04 AM
Re: the price increase, I haven't kept up with all of the DTV price increases over the past couple of years, but I don't expect service to stay the same price forever. Unless I see that the prices have gone up $3-5 every 6-12 months or so for a couple of years, I don't really have an issue with the increase, either.

The only problem with the rate increase is that they said they were not going to have an increase in 2006 :

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_3355594

After raising prices an average of 4 percent across the board in March, DirecTV does not expect any increases in the new year, said spokesman Robert Mercer. The company's average revenue per customer is $68.65, he said.

The "March" referred to is March of 2005. The "new year" would be 2006.

Samdari
01-25-2006, 07:07 AM
This is the first thing in 10 years of being their customer that has made be think seriously about going back to cable.

Starting March 1, you will no longer be able to purchase DirecTV receivers. Any time you want to get a new receiver, or if you are a new customer getting a receiver for the first time, you are going to have to lease the receiver from DirecTV, and of course pay an additional fee for this.

IMO, the asses at DTV have decided to become nothing better than a cable company, and since they have no one to fight them for their market share, they are just going to do what ever they want because no one can stop them. Their rationale is that doing the new pay even more for a box that you dont own is that this will allow them to offer upgrades and exchanges on the receivers. If that is the case, I will be making them send me a new receiver every couple months just to piss them off.

The moron of a customer service rep i just talked to on the phone only found out about the new policy TODAY, so not only are they completely screwing those of us that prefer to own our own equipment, they are not even going to tell us about it until it is already a done deal (although i guess this is a pretty hot topic on some newsgroups)

I plan on calling DTV tommorow and ripping into their customer complaint department for this and several other reasons. I also intend on telling every person that i have referred to DTV in the last 10 years to do the same if they think this is as much bull shit as I do. (that would also be the point of this thread)

Its long been known they were offering a lease program (many people considered them not offering this a reason NOT to consider DirecTV). But where did you get the information you would not be allowed to purchase?

Butter
01-25-2006, 07:09 AM
I'm switching to cable in the coming weeks. I can get Digital Cable with a DVR and 2 premium channels, high-speed internet access, and phone service for something like $140 a month. Right now I pay about $150 for all 3 services, and my DSL has been spotty at best, with SBC unwilling to do anything about it unless I buy more equipment or pay for troubleshooting, when the fault is clearly in the line or in the modem they provided me. At least with cable, I know if something goes wrong, I'm not going to have to pay a technician to fix it. I may have to wait an extra day or two to get it fixed, but it'll be free.

Plus, I don't buy/can't afford Sunday Ticket, so that doesn't factor into the equation.

Toddzilla
01-25-2006, 07:12 AM
IMO, the asses at DTV have decided to become nothing better than a cable company, and since they have no one to fight them for their market share, they are just going to do what ever they want because no one can stop them.
Well, dumbass, they do have competition, it's called Dish Network, and they consistently have the top-rated service and customer service in the business (see JD Power and Assoc. ratings). Screw cable and just get a better dish, a better DVR, and better service.

Ksyrup
01-25-2006, 07:13 AM
I got this from a forum and don't know who it is written by, so take it for what it is worth:

Directv Inc. has announced that they are migrating to an equipment lease only platform beginning March 1, 2006 in order to help reduce individual subscriber acquisition costs and increase subscriber retention. This will have an impact on new subscribers in that they will never own their equipment but will instead pay a monthly rental fee for as long as they subscribe to Directv. This model is identical to the cablevision industry, which has rented its converters and decoders to its subscribers, which is extremely lucrative over the long run.

The upside to this new plan is that it will allow customers to enjoy the latest technologies such as MPEG4 HDTV locals as well as high definition DVR's much more cost effectively as they will not be required to pay $800-$1000 for the special decoder. It will also allow future equipment upgrades and as well receiver repairs are all covered in the monthly lease. The downside is that subscribers over the long run may pay in rental fees much more than the receiver is worth. Additionally, the receiver will remain the property of Directv and the subscriber will bear the responsibility of keeping it in good condition and must be returned to Directv upon termination of their subscription.

Directv dealers are currently in the process of being advised of the change which will be in full effect as of March 1. After this date, it will no longer be an option to purchase new equipment outright as Directv will not compensate its dealers for sold equipment after this date, only leased equipment. In order to make a minimal impact on existing subscribers, Directv will be waiving the lease fee on a subscribers first receiver. All additional receivers will be subject to a $4.99 per month leasing fee. This fee will replace the $4.99 per receiver mirroring fee that multiple subscribers are currently already paying.

It is also interesting to note that all new leasing subscribers will be subject to a minimum programming commitment (contract), identical to those that new subscribers are required to sign into. Individuals wishing to subscribe to Directv without a contract will only be able to do so with existing owned equipment or by purchasing pre-owned equipment. Existing customers wishing to add additional receivers after March 1 will also be required to lease them from Directv. Directv has also indicated that they plan to continue to offer free standard installation to new subscribers.

This new policy will also have an effect on its DVR customers as well. A common modification for existing DVR subscribers has been to upgrade the DVR's hard drive. This however has tended to void the manufacturers warranty, so it is likely that new DVR customers under the lease policy will be prohibited from making any unauthorized modifications to their equipment as it will remain the property of Directv.

Directv has also indicated that they are not offering any guarantee of new equipment being provided to you at the time of your subscription. They are reserving the right to provide re-conditioned equipment to subscribers if new equipment is not available. This provision would allow them to recondition off-lease receivers and re-lease them to new subscribers. Because Directv is phasing out third party equipment, re-leasing reconditioned receivers would prove to be highly profitable.
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Tekneek
01-25-2006, 07:16 AM
I think the inability to purchase hardware is a misinterpretation. The letter to retailers that I have seems to indicate that retailers can sell equipment at any price they choose, but will not get any commissions from DirecTV for those. Commissions will only be available on lease deals. So, in other words, it is entirely up to the retailers as to whether they will sell equipment or not.

Ksyrup
01-25-2006, 07:18 AM
Here's what purports to be the letter:



January 13, 2006

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:

• DIRECTV will be migrating over to a new Lease Program on March 1, 2006, which will require you to sign a new agreement in order to continue working with DIRECTV. As such, this letter shall serve as the written notice required to terminate your existing agreement with DIRECTV. Please be advised that your existing agreement will terminate on February 28, 2006.

• In order for you to continue to act as a DIRECTV dealer, you must agree/accept/approve a new Agreement via the online acceptance method by February 28, 2006; the new agreement will govern our relationship under the Lease Program.

• Your current commission economics will not change other than starting March 1, 2006, commissions will now be paid only for leased equipment instead of purchased sales. Of course, commissions are subject to changes in the future in accordance with the terms of your Agreement.

• In addition, customers will continue to acquire their hardware from you under the Lease Program. Upon activation of the leased equipment, DIRECTV buys the equipment from you and issues payment. Please see details regarding the sale and purchase of leased equipment in the agreement, which will be made available to you shortly.

• Through the new lease model, standard, professional installation remains free for new customers and under the new terms of the lease model, it's free for existing customers as well!

• A Q&A sheet along with a more comprehensive outline of this program is included.

Countdown to the DIRECTV Lease Program!

On March 1, 2006, DIRECTV will be migrating over to a new hardware Lease Program. The Lease Program is designed to provide your customers with competitive offers and to help you continue growing your acquisition of quality customers. The DIRECTV Lease Program will be our primary hardware model to ensure our customers always have access to the most state-of-the-art, up-to-date equipment!

On March 1, 2006, all commission-based DIRECTV hardware transactions will be under the new Lease Program. It is important to note that your current commission economics will in no way change other than the fact that commissions will now be paid only for leased equipment instead of purchased equipment. Of course, your commissions are subject to change in the future in accordance with the terms of your new agreement.
It’s never been easier to have satellite television! With equipment replacement and upgrade offers through our DIRECTV dealers, the new Lease Program takes all the worry away from customers. In addition, leased receivers are backed by a convenient equipment replacement program. If the customer wishes to stop subscribing to DIRECTV service upon fulfilling their programming commitment, they are required to return the equipment to DIRECTV per the terms of the Equipment Lease Addendum.

Page 2 of 5

The new Lease Program requires customers to pay a nominal lease fee, some examples of which are highlighted below (please note that the following illustrations are for new customers only). Note that the monthly lease fee is in addition to applicable programming charges:

New Customer Hardware
Upfront Hardware Lease Fees
Total Monthly Costs to Customer
Commitment Period/Early Cancellation Fee
1 Standard Receiver
$0
$0 Lease Fee (no fee for first receiver)
+Monthly programming
1 Year/ $150 prorated
1 Standard Receiver + 1 DVR
$0 (after $100 mail-in rebate*)
$0 Lease Fee (no fee for first receiver)
+ $4.99 Lease Fee (for second receiver) + $5.99 DVR Service Fee (Whole House)
+ Monthly Programming
2 Years/ $300 prorated
2 DVRs + 1 HD
$197 (after $100 mail-in rebate*)
$0 Lease Fee (no fee for first receiver)
+ $4.99 Lease Fee (for second receiver)
+ $4.99 Lease Fee (for third receiver)
+ $5.99 DVR Service Fee (Whole House)
+ Monthly Programming
2 Years/ $300 prorated
1 HD DVR
$299 (after $100 mail-in rebate*)
$0 Lease Fee (no fee for first receiver)
+ $5.99 DVR Service Fee (Whole House)
+ Monthly Programming
2 Years/ $300 prorated

* New customers are eligible for one Advanced Receiver mail-in rebate ($100) per household; this rebate is subject to changes or termination.
Credit scoring at point of retail remains in effect with the new Lease Program, so the only change new customers will experience are the lower costs associated with becoming a new DIRECTV customer!
New Agreement Required for all DIRECTV dealers

This letter serves as written notice of DIRECTV’s termination of your agreement as required under your agreement with DIRECTV. Accordingly, your existing agreement will terminate on February 28, 2006. Because the lease program is an entirely new business model, it is necessary for every DIRECTV dealer to review and approve the new agreement no later than February 28, 2006. The new agreement will govern our relationship under the lease program. [Of course, both parties will continue to be responsible for any matters and issues from the terminated agreement after the termination date (e.g., payment of any unpaid commissions, chargebacks accruing in the future, any installation issues under the sales model, etc.)] To make this transition as easy as possible for our dealers, we expect that the new agreement will be available online in the next few days for your review and acceptance. Once the new agreements are available, when you log onto retailer.DIRECTV.com, you will be sent to the online agreement that is applicable to you. For your convenience, you may continue to go on to the dealer website without accepting the new contract, but be advised that you will be directed to the agreement each time you log on until you have agreed, accepted and approved. Please note that you have the right to review the terms of the new agreement before accepting it, but if the new agreement is not approved by the principal/owner of record by February 28, 2006, since your existing agreement will be terminated, you will no longer be able to continue as an authorized DIRECTV dealer after February 28, 2006.

By enabling all of our dealers to accept the agreement online, we ensure that our dealers have access to additional important information DIRECTV will post online in the future.

Page 3 of 5

Please note that on and after March 1, 2006, only hardware transactions under the Lease Program will be eligible for commission; any DIRECTV hardware sold by you will not be commissionable or subsidized in any manner or for any amounts whatsoever. All hardware subsidies will be subject to chargeback for sales made under the owned model. Further, under the new terms of the lease agreement, DIRECTV retailers are required to extend the lease offers to customers based on DIRECTV’s standardized lease transactions; see “Consumer Offers: Lease Transactions” in the online contract for full details. Dealers may not deviate from these lease transaction fees in any way since the lease offers are set and established by DIRECTV as the lessor.

We are excited to offer this new program to our customers and know that, with your help, it will be a success! If you have any questions, please contact your DIRECTV Area Sales Manager, Distributor Sales Representative, or DIRECTV Retail Services at 1-800-323-1994, or via email at [email protected] ([email protected]).

Best Regards,
DIRECTV, Inc.

LSE_0106

Page 4 of 5

Q&A About the DIRECTV Lease Program
1. Q: Why is DIRECTV migrating from a hardware purchase model to a Lease Program?

A: Some of the most important reasons DIRECTV is migrating to the Lease Program are:

• To maintain a competitive offer in the market place by providing
DIRECTV customers a convenient receiver replacement program.

• Increase retention of DIRECTV customers, which should help reduce chargebacks.

2. Q: How is my commission affected by the Lease Program?

A: With the new Lease Program going into effect on March 1, 2006, dealers are paid commission only on those DIRECTV customers acquired under the terms of the new Lease Program. Some dealers may still sell receivers to customers, if they wish, but they will not be paid on those sales and the hardware will be in no way subsidized.

3. Q: How are mirroring fees impacted with the new Lease Program?

A: The bottom line is that a customer’s monthly bill will be nominally impacted. Although the term “mirroring fees” will go away in the Lease Program, customers will be subject to “monthly lease fees.” As with mirroring fees, the new “lease fees” are waived for the customer’s first receiver (lease fees are waived for the first receivers for new customers only; existing customers are subject to lease fees for any additional receivers they may acquire).

4. Q: Under the current model, I can currently charge whatever I want for the hardware as long as I absorb the cost if I offer it at lower than what is subsidized by DIRECTV; will this continue?

A: No. DIRECTV will be the party who will lease the equipment to the customers under the lease program. Accordingly, DIRECTV controls, sets and establishes the terms of the new lease program, including the lease fees charged for equipment. If you deviate in any way from the lease program as established by DIRECTV, including the standardized lease fees, you will be subject to immediate termination, without an opportunity to cure.

5. Q: Will the customer be getting used boxes with the Lease Program?

A: Through the Lease Program, there is the possibility that customers may get reconditioned equipment. Please keep in mind that DIRECTV will take precaution to ensure that any reconditioned equipment leased to customers is in “like new condition.” Of course, whether the equipment is new or reconditioned, it is covered by DIRECTV’s receiver replacement program.

6. Q: Why do I need to sign a new contract/agreement with DIRECTV?

A: Because the primary business model that DIRECTV works with its dealers on is changing, we need to have a new contract in place to support the new Lease Program. This will also allow us to provide contractual amendments to you online in the future!

7. Q: What happens if I sell (not lease) my customer a DIRECTV system after 2/28/06?

A: While you are not prohibited from selling DIRECTV hardware at prices established by you, please be advised that after 2/28/06, you will not be eligible to receive any commissions or subsidies for sold receivers. Accordingly, you will be subject to chargebacks for any subsidies or commissions you may have received, including any amounts under the Buy-Down Program. Please also note that only leased receivers will be eligible for ODU/Multi-Switch Reimbursement and commission.

Page 5 of 5

8. Q: Do Early Cancellation Fees or Differentiated Offer Fees change with lease?

A: No; both of these fees will be generally handled in the same manner as they currently are.

9. Q: With the lease model, will new customers now have to pay for standard, professional installation?

A: A: No! New customers will continue to get standard professional installation for free. In fact the great news is that with the lease model, both new and existing customers are eligible for free standard installation.

10. Q: How are existing customers affected by the lease model?

A: They aren’t. Existing customers who have already purchased hardware will continue to own their hardware. New customers who sign up for DIRECTV will be leasing the equipment. However, if an existing customer wishes to add additional receivers to what they already own on or after March 1, 2006, the newly acquired receivers will be under the terms of the lease model and the customer will be considered a mixed household, in which case they will be charged a lease fee on their leased equipment.

11. Q: How does my advertising need to change in order to promote the new lease model?

A: There will be changes reflected in all advertising once we migrate over to the lease model on March 1, 2006. We will be providing you ad slicks for the upcoming Q1 offer, which reflects the new hardware positioning and advertises our great, new programming offer that starts March 1.

Advertisements will continue to promote the free standard, professional installation but the equipment will now be leased, not owned. You will need to update the legal block to reflect the new terms of the lease, and, as always, all advertising must be sent through DIRECTV for approval.

12. Q: How does the Lease Program affect a customer’s experience at my store?

A: The customer experience will not change in regards to coming to you to acquire the best and latest DIRECTV hardware. The customer still comes to you for their DIRECTV system, they are credit scored, and you provide them with the hardware they need to access DIRECTV programming! The only thing that changes is the terms of the hardware, which will now be leased instead of owned. Upon cancellation/disconnection/termination of their DIRECTV account, they are required to return the equipment per the terms of the Equipment Lease Addendum, which replaces the old programming commitment agreement. If they do so before they have satisfied the programming commitment, they will also be subject to the early cancellation fees. The terms of ownership change, but accessing the premier multi-channel provider remains the same! DIRECTV is making it easier than ever for customers to get the most up-to-date, advanced hardware on the market through its dealers.

Tekneek
01-25-2006, 07:24 AM
7. Q: What happens if I sell (not lease) my customer a DIRECTV system after 2/28/06?

A: While you are not prohibited from selling DIRECTV hardware at prices established by you, please be advised that after 2/28/06, you will not be eligible to receive any commissions or subsidies for sold receivers. Accordingly, you will be subject to chargebacks for any subsidies or commissions you may have received, including any amounts under the Buy-Down Program. Please also note that only leased receivers will be eligible for ODU/Multi-Switch Reimbursement and commission.

There is the important stuff. You will likely still be able to find someone that will sell you equipment, but it may be at prices you don't want to pay.

Ksyrup
01-25-2006, 07:29 AM
Which is why it might be smart to buy now, if you are dead-set against leasing.

The funny thing is, as bad as some people see this, it's going to be a smart move business-wise for DTV. Take me, for example. I have 2 standard receivers, one of which is 5 years old, and I've never considered upgrading to a DVR, despite all of the rave reviews I hear about it. I'm not even sure how much they cost now, but I've never had the inclination to go out and buy one for $100-$200 (?). If I read this letter right - and I know the cost breakdown is for new customers in the letter, not existing custumers - it appears that I can upgrade to a lease of 1 standard and 1 DVR for the same price as I'm paying now, plus the $5.99 DVR service fee. If that's how this is going to work, it's a brilliant move by DTV. How many people like me are now going to be tempted to get that DVR, since it's really not going to cost me anything but the DVR service fee, which I would have to pay even if I bought a DVR myself? Not to mention, I'll also be getting a better standard receiver replacement, as well, both of which would probably cost me in the neighborhood (guessing here) of $250-$400 at Best Buy.

Tekneek
01-25-2006, 07:32 AM
How many people like me are now going to be tempted to get that DVR, since it's really not going to cost me anything but the DVR service fee, which I would have to pay even if I bought a DVR myself?

They probably do hope it will drive adoption of their non-TiVo "DVR Plus." If you want to get a TiVo-enabled DirecTV DVR, that price will be going up.

Of course, DirecTV does say that people who have never had a DVR before will really enjoy their DVR Plus. It's worth a try!

Ksyrup
01-25-2006, 07:39 AM
Hell, I don't even know what you just said. I thought DVR was essentially DTV's version of TiVo? What's the difference, and can I get TiVo with a DTV DVR? Me no comprende.

MikeVick7
01-25-2006, 07:39 AM
Does Dish Network offer the College Football Package or Sunday Ticket?

MizzouRah
01-25-2006, 07:39 AM
Plus cable really REALLY sucks.

Ksyrup
01-25-2006, 07:42 AM
Does Dish Network offer the College Football Package or Sunday Ticket?
I don't know about college, but DTV has the NFL exclusively.

Tekneek
01-25-2006, 07:43 AM
Hell, I don't even know what you just said. I thought DVR was essentially DTV's version of TiVo? What's the difference, and can I get TiVo with a DTV DVR? Me no comprende.

The new "DirecTV DVR Plus" does not have anything to do with TiVo. They are the first DirecTV DVRs that do not have TiVo functionality.

Its self-branded digital video recorders (DVRs) originally were based upon technology licensed from TiVo in an agreement that has been largely supplanted by a new partnership with News Corporation-owned NDS.

TiVo is generally regarded as the leader in DVR technology. Since News Corp owns NDS, and doesn't want to share any pieces of the pie with TiVo anymore, they decided to make their own DVR instead. People who have the TiVo based DVRs don't tend to like them, but DirecTV maintains that those who have never used the TiVo ones will really like the new ones.

Ksyrup
01-25-2006, 07:48 AM
In other words, for me, ignorance will be bliss.

Draft Dodger
01-25-2006, 07:52 AM
so, I currently have a DVR downstairs and a regular box upstairs. the upstairs box is on it's last legs, and we've been talking about replacing it with a DVR for a while. I can't figure out if I need to upgrade before 3/1 or after.

MikeVick7
01-25-2006, 07:57 AM
I don't know about college, but DTV has the NFL exclusively.
Then Dish Network is hardly competition for DirecTV.

Tekneek
01-25-2006, 08:05 AM
In other words, for me, ignorance will be bliss.

Yes. You should do alright. You won't know what you're missing. ;)

Tekneek
01-25-2006, 08:07 AM
so, I currently have a DVR downstairs and a regular box upstairs. the upstairs box is on it's last legs, and we've been talking about replacing it with a DVR for a while. I can't figure out if I need to upgrade before 3/1 or after.

If you want a TiVo, you should go out and find one. Odds are if you buy it from DirecTV, you'll be getting the new DVR Plus (totally different from TiVo in terms of all menus and their version of 'Season Passes' and so on). If you don't care about it being TiVo, wait until after 3/1 and see if you can just get it for free.

Ksyrup
01-25-2006, 08:10 AM
so, I currently have a DVR downstairs and a regular box upstairs. the upstairs box is on it's last legs, and we've been talking about replacing it with a DVR for a while. I can't figure out if I need to upgrade before 3/1 or after.
Based on what I've read, it looks like it would be a wash if you upgrade to a lease after 3/1, provided you don't care about not owning the receivers and whatever issues come with post-purchase modifications to DVRs that some people are wondering about (i.e., replacing the hard drive with a bigger one, which you wouldn't be able to do since it's not your DVR, but DTV's now). If you are deadset against leasing, then you'd want to buy the new receivers before 3/1, when dealer lose whatever incentives they are currently getting from DTV and presumably the costs will go up.

That's the way I read it, anyway. Even for someone like me without a DVR currently, both you and I could upgrade to leasing 1 standard and 1 DVR for no additional fee (other than for me, I would be adding the DVR service fee that you're already paying).

Loren
01-25-2006, 08:32 AM
they sent an email out about the changes, yesterday or the day before..and yeah you dont need a landline, we d/c our phone line off it within the yr of getting directv and that was 6+ yrs ago..we got a newer box this past yr i think and its not hooked up either, we can order movies too, if anything order them online, and we still get the stupid emails on there...it's kinda creepy :rolleyes:

Ksyrup
01-25-2006, 09:30 AM
I recall being told that a landline was necessary for the sports subscriptions, but I don't know if that was untrue or became unnecessary later. However, I think they still tell you that you need a landline if you want to buy pay-per-view directly through the TV.

So there's a way to order movies online? I've never tried, but if it's possible to order an 8:30 movie at 8:29 online, then it would save me some extra wiring that I've got hooked up.

MikeVick7
01-25-2006, 09:39 AM
I recall being told that a landline was necessary for the sports subscriptions, but I don't know if that was untrue or became unnecessary later. However, I think they still tell you that you need a landline if you want to buy pay-per-view directly through the TV.

So there's a way to order movies online? I've never tried, but if it's possible to order an 8:30 movie at 8:29 online, then it would save me some extra wiring that I've got hooked up.
Yes, I don't have a land line connected and I can just go on the website and order a pay-per-view movie.

Samdari
01-25-2006, 09:53 AM
Yes, I don't have a land line connected and I can just go on the website and order a pay-per-view movie.

Me too.

And you've never needed the land line for sports subscriptions either, their protestations notwithstanding.

One thing that they never tell you is that the only thing the line has been used for is to send information to them. Everything sent to you is via satellite. Thus, by having one hooked up, they could potentially collect viewing information and challenge Nielson.

saldana
01-25-2006, 11:21 AM
Then Dish Network is hardly competition for DirecTV.Dish network doesnt have sunday ticket, only directv carries that, plus, they buy their signal from Directv, so either way, you are paying DTV

Daimyo
01-25-2006, 11:48 AM
You DirectTV people don't know how good you have it... My (non-digital, no HD options) cable costs over $65/month because my building as an exclusive contract with a crappy cable company. I'd be thrilled to have the opportunity to pay $50/month for DirectTV.

Tekneek
01-25-2006, 12:06 PM
Dish network doesnt have sunday ticket, only directv carries that, plus, they buy their signal from Directv, so either way, you are paying DTV

You are very much mistaken. Dish Network buys nothing from DirecTV.

Samdari
01-25-2006, 12:34 PM
You are very much mistaken. Dish Network buys nothing from DirecTV.

Yeah, the exact opposite is true. They wanted to merge, to pool their infrastructures, but the government forced them to remain competitors. Each buys their programming from the source stations, beams it up to their own satellites, and broadcasts that signal to North America from said satellites.

gstelmack
01-25-2006, 12:55 PM
I've been disappointed lately, too. I wanted a DirecTv DVR, but they say I MUST have a landline so I can get the product upgrades. Apparently this isn't even completely true, but the people who work in the support centers are fed a line of crap and will not sell one to me otherwise.

In this day and age of cell and IP phones - you must have a landline for a DVR? Nuts.
IP phone counts as a landline. My Time Warner IP phone works just fine for my DirecTIVOs.

MikeVick7
01-25-2006, 01:44 PM
You are very much mistaken. Dish Network buys nothing from DirecTV.
Maybe they should. Then they would carry the Sunday Ticket. :)

saldana
01-25-2006, 08:54 PM
Yeah, the exact opposite is true. They wanted to merge, to pool their infrastructures, but the government forced them to remain competitors. Each buys their programming from the source stations, beams it up to their own satellites, and broadcasts that signal to North America from said satellites.

hmmph...i had an installer at my house on monday that worked directly for DTV (not a third party contractor). he remarked that alot of people in my neighborhood had DTV as there were 4 other houses with visible dishes from where he was on the roof. I told him that one of the ones he could see was actually a Dish Network dish, and i asked him if he knew anything about their service/signal quality, because i had heard they dont get very good signal in my area. He told me that its the same as DTV for some of their channels because they purchased transponder space and transmission bandwith from directv, so depending on what channel you were watching and which satellite in comes from, it is coming from DTV anyway.

moriarty
01-27-2006, 01:46 PM
OK, so I just got an email offer from directTV to get a free reconditioned 40GB DVR from "last year's inventory" for being "one of our best customers". $14.95 shipping not included. "Free, no strings attached".

So, two questions:
1) Is this any better/worse than the 'free with rebate' new DVR's BestBuy and others have been advertising
2) I have an old receiver I could replace with this DVR, but with the leasing agreement coming up, do I care? Should I pull the trigger now and get a freebie, or is it a waste getting old equipment?

rexallllsc
01-27-2006, 01:48 PM
IP phone counts as a landline. My Time Warner IP phone works just fine for my DirecTIVOs.

DirecTv doesn't go w/ Tivo anymore - they made their own, which seems to be an inferior product.

Draft Dodger
01-27-2006, 02:09 PM
OK, so I just got an email offer from directTV to get a free reconditioned 40GB DVR from "last year's inventory" for being "one of our best customers". $14.95 shipping not included. "Free, no strings attached".

So, two questions:
1) Is this any better/worse than the 'free with rebate' new DVR's BestBuy and others have been advertising
2) I have an old receiver I could replace with this DVR, but with the leasing agreement coming up, do I care? Should I pull the trigger now and get a freebie, or is it a waste getting old equipment?

damn, here I am wanting to do that...and I don't see any such offer in my inbox.

moriarty
01-27-2006, 03:56 PM
damn, here I am wanting to do that...and I don't see any such offer in my inbox.

Well, looks like the link is tied to my account ID/password, so even if I send it to you you probably won't get the offer.

Guess you're just not one of the "best" customers ... aka a sucker who buys Sunday Ticket every year.

Seriously though if you call the customer service agents and tell them your friend got this offer and you feel you should too, they might just give it to you. Of course you may have to sit on hold for an hour.

Raiders Army
01-27-2006, 05:30 PM
they sent an email out about the changes, yesterday or the day before..and yeah you dont need a landline, we d/c our phone line off it within the yr of getting directv and that was 6+ yrs ago..we got a newer box this past yr i think and its not hooked up either, we can order movies too, if anything order them online, and we still get the stupid emails on there...it's kinda creepy :rolleyes:
What the...very strange. We haven't received an email from them at all. Then again, we moved about two years ago and have a different email address. I'll have to check this out.

moriarty
01-27-2006, 07:19 PM
What the...very strange. We haven't received an email from them at all. Then again, we moved about two years ago and have a different email address. I'll have to check this out.

I didn't get an email about the changes either. Just the free DVR.

AZSpeechCoach
01-27-2006, 08:59 PM
DirecTv doesn't go w/ Tivo anymore - they made their own, which seems to be an inferior product.

Makes me even happier that I went to Comp USA to specifically get one with Tivo after Christmas. All that Best Buy had was the DTV +.

Tekneek
01-28-2006, 02:21 PM
He told me that its the same as DTV for some of their channels because they purchased transponder space and transmission bandwith from directv, so depending on what channel you were watching and which satellite in comes from, it is coming from DTV anyway.

It really is amazing how ignorant some of those guys are. It's not true and never has been.

Samdari
01-31-2006, 03:38 PM
It really is amazing how ignorant some of those guys are. It's not true and never has been.

Well, you could tell he was full of crap when he claimed to work for DirecTV directly. They are in the business of selling programming, not installing cables and dishes. They contract all of that.

Kodos
02-17-2006, 02:52 PM
So is the final assessment that if you want DirecTivo, get it before the end of the month. I already have one DirecTV Tivo, but would like to get a second and don't want to lease in the future.

gstelmack
02-17-2006, 03:29 PM
So is the final assessment that if you want DirecTivo, get it before the end of the month. I already have one DirecTV Tivo, but would like to get a second and don't want to lease in the future.More like if you want a DirecTV Tivo, buy it now before they are all out of stock and all they have are the new NDS DVRs...

Draft Dodger
02-17-2006, 03:46 PM
More like if you want a DirecTV Tivo, buy it now before they are all out of stock and all they have are the new NDS DVRs...

what is an NDS DVR?

Ksyrup
02-17-2006, 07:11 PM
I still haven't gotten any kind of offer to upgrade my receivers and switch to a lease. I haven't checked the website in a few weeks, though. They're being pretty quiet about this, which suggests they don't have much confidence that it is going to be received favorably.

Tekneek
02-17-2006, 08:17 PM
what is an NDS DVR?

A Digital Video Recorder made by NDS.

gstelmack
02-17-2006, 08:23 PM
what is an NDS DVR?
NDS is the Newscorp owned (invested? somehow connected) company that makes DVRs for their satellite service in the UK and is producing the newer interactive receivers for DirecTV. The newer R15 is an NDS model. The key is that it is not TIVO-based and uses different software. That may or may not be important to you.

Ksyrup
03-02-2006, 09:12 PM
Have any existing customers been offered one of these free upgrade deals we were talking about a couple of months ago? I haven't seen any, and just logged in on directv.com and was offered a lease upgrade for $99. Uh...no thanks.

What happened to the special offers? Maybe I need to call to get a good deal, or was it all just a bunch of BS?

gstelmack
03-03-2006, 09:19 AM
My area just got announced as being in the next wave of MPEG-4 upgrades, so I'll let you know what they send me. If it costs me a few hundred bucks to go to MPEG-4 (after already spending like $600 to get HD and then an HD-TIVO), Time Warner may FINALLY get me back as a TV customer...