2006 Hall of Fame Class: who will get in ?

[Darkiller]

In exactly one week from today (Sat Feb 4th), the Hall of Fame committee will vote to announce the Class of 2006, to be enshrined in Canton, Ohio.
I thought it was the right time to start discussing the finalists and their chances for induction as their names will come up for discussions next Saturday.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Intriguing questions regarding the 2006 finalists:<o:p></o:p>

- Will Troy Aikman and/or Warren Moon join Steve Young and Dan Marino (2005 Inductees) as the newest quarterback members of the Hall of Fame ?<o:p></o:p>

- Will Harry Carson make the Hall this time, especially since he has been finalist in each of the previous votes, and although he asked the Committes to remove his name from the ballot ?<o:p></o:p>

- Will Michael Irvin get inducted, on his 2<SUP>nd</SUP> attempt, despite his latest (well-documented) drug issues that happened three months ago ? Irvin made the final-six list last year so he will undoubtedly be considered with a lot of attention again.<o:p></o:p>

- Is Reggie White really the only “slam dunk” candidate ?<o:p></o:p>

- Are Thurman Thomas & Derrick Thomas absolutely worthy HOF candidates, and will there be enough room for them this year ?<o:p></o:p>

- Will Ark Monk again be snubbed after years of being a finalist and passed over by a more recent WR candidate (Irvin) ?<o:p></o:p>

- Will John Madden finally make the Hall of Fame after more than 25 years of waiting (Madden is a Senior candidate now)<o:p></o:p>


Listed alphabetically, the 15 finalists with their positions, teams, and years:

Troy Aikman - Quarterback - 1989-2000 Dallas Cowboys
Harry Carson - Linebacker - 1976-1988 New York Giants
L.C Greenwood - Defensive End - 1969-1981 Pittsburgh Steelers
Russ Grimm - Guard - 1981-1991 Washington Redskins
Claude Humphrey - Defensive End - 1968-1978 Atlanta Falcons, 1979-1981 Philadelphia Eagles (injured reserve - 1975)
Michael Irvin - Wide Receiver - 1988-1999 Dallas Cowboys
Bob Kuechenberg - Guard - 1970-1984 Miami Dolphins (injured reserve - 1984)
John Madden - Coach - 1969-1978 Oakland Raiders
Art Monk - Wide Receiver - 1980-1993 Washington Redskins, 1994 New York Jets, 1995 Philadelphia Eagles
Warren Moon - Quarterback - 1984-1993 Houston Oilers, 1994-1996 Minnesota Vikings, 1997-1998 Seattle Seahawks, 1999-2000 Kansas City Chiefs
Derrick Thomas - Linebacker - 1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs
Thurman Thomas - Running Back - 1988-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Miami Dolphins
Reggie White - Defensive End/Defensive Tackle - 1985-1992 Philadelphia Eagles, 1993-1998 Green Bay Packers, 2000 Carolina Panthers
Rayfield Wright - Tackle - 1967-1979 Dallas Cowboy
Gary Zimmerman - Tackle - 1986-1992 Minnesota Vikings, 1993-1997 Denver Broncos<o:p></o:p>

Carson, Greenwood, Grimm, Humphrey, Irvin, Kuechenberg, Madden, Monk, Derrick Thomas, Wright, and Zimmerman have all been finalists in previous years.<o:p></o:p>

So, who do you see making the Hall of Fame this year ?<o:p></o:p>

My take is that after two straight 4-member classes (2004 & 2005), I would expect the 2006 class to have 5 members, including one “surprise” pick in Guard Russ Grimm.<o:p></o:p>
Obviously, I would be shocked if Reggie White and/or Troy Aikman are not chosen, I think they are the same locks that Marino and Young were last year as 1<SUP>st</SUP> time nominees.
Warren Moon is a very interesting case because his numbers are amazing and he has had 9 Pro-Bowl selections but he never was “the” dominant QB of the NFL in any year so my guess is he will not be selected. <o:p></o:p>

My prediction for this year’s class:<o:p></o:p>

DE/DT Reggie White
QB Troy Aikman
Coach John Madden
WR Michael Irvin
G Russ Grimm<o:p></o:p>

[cthomer5000]

I really hope Thurman Thomas makes it, he had an absolutely exceptional 5-6 years there. And his performance in Super Bowl XXV was one of the best I've ever seen by any player. He should have been MVP, even in the loss.

[Cuckoo]

Yeah, I think Aikman has to be a 1st ballot guy. Those that argue he shouldn't be because of playing on great teams are clueless in my opinion.

As to Irvin, I think his run-ins hurt him and he doesn't make it this time.

[JeeberD]

Troy and Mike have GOT to go in together...

[vex]

Aikman is a slamdunk as well.

[Dutch]

I'm not sure if Michael Irvin's off-field issues will have an effect for the Hall of Fame. I'm pretty sure the NFL tries to ignore off-field qualifications (or lack there of)

I going to guess-

Troy Aikman
Reggie White
John Madden
Michael Irvin
Art Monk

[sabotai]

Even though Harry Carson more than deserves to be in the HOF, I don't think he makes it this time.

Reggie White
Troy Aikman
Gus Grimm
Thurman Thomas
Michael Irvin

[Eaglesfan27]

I don't think it will happen, Jeebs. I think Irvin's recent troubles keep him out of the hall this year. I think Aikman and White are both slamdunks to go in this year.

I agree that I don't think Moon will get in this year despite his excellent career numbers. I think Madden gets in and I think Thurman gets in.

[Rockstar]

I'm picking

Troy Aikman
Warren Moon
Reggie White
Derrick Thomas
Art Monk
John Madden

[ShovelMonkey]

Warren Moon gets my vote. 3rd or 4th all time in passing yards, 9 pro bowls. Never even sniffed a championship though, that hurts him.

[thealmighty]

Rayfield Wright was better than Russ Grimm. Period.

Unfortunately for Cowboy fans, I don't think Irvin will make it this year. There is no way 3 Cowboys make it, if two, and I think Wright deserves the honor more than Irvin.

[Darkiller]

The things is, it's been over 25 years now for Rayfield Wright (since he is a senior candidate).
I like the fact that old-timers still have a shot, but in all truth, when you haven't made the Hall of Fame in 25 votes, it is difficult to say the guy is "more deserving than...".

I think it's good for him if he makes it and I certainly won't make a case for Michael Irvin for several reasons but I doubt that he is "more deserving" than him.

[cthomer5000]

The things is, it's been over 25 years now for Rayfield Wright (since he is a senior candidate).
I like the fact that old-timers still have a shot, but in all truth, when you haven't made the Hall of Fame in 25 votes, it is difficult to say the guy is "more deserving than...".
Did you ever see him play? I'm guessing "no" and I haven't either. Therefore I have no clue as to whether he's more qualified. The seniors committee is there for the specific reason of putting guys who have been unjustly overlooked for so long. People tend to have pretty short memories in sports, especially when the game has changed to much that a lot of statistics now blow away guys from a different generation of the game.

[Swaggs]

My picks:

Aikman
White
Moon
Monk
D. Thomas
Greenwood


I really believe that Moon and Monk should have been first ballot guys.

[cthomer5000]

Monk: Never

And I'm going to go out on a limb and say Aikman does not make it first ballot.

[Darkiller]

Corey, I totally agree about the Senior's Committee's purpose and I am grateful they are here to suggest two finalists every year.
I never saw Rayfied Wright play "live" but I definitely saw tapes of some of his best plays and he was dominant. Still, I question how he can be passed for over 25 years and still be regarded as a "better candidate" than a guy like Irvin who finished in the top 6 last year -on his first ballot- ... Again, I'm no Irvin fan (far from that and I can tell you that I definitely support Wright's candidcacy more than Irvin's).
I am just playing devil's advocate...

Also, I believe the selectors will vote Madden in, and with this year being another crowed year, I just don't see how they can put the two old-timers in this class. This means Wright would be the odd man out.

I like your guts picking Aikman not making the Hall of Fame this year.
That would be a total shock to me if he doesn't make it, not necessarily because of what he did in football (he IS a Hall of Famer in my opinion), but because of how famous he is, the "hype" around him as Fox's leading analyst and everything...I am certain he'll make it but would "love" to be shocked !

[Swaggs]

And I'm going to go out on a limb and say Aikman does not make it first ballot.

I think you underestimate the effect that his Super Bowl appearances/wins will have on the voters.

[miami_fan]

I am going to go with Aikman, Irvin, Madden, Moon, and White.

[cthomer5000]

I think you underestimate the effect that his Super Bowl appearances/wins will have on the voters.
This is why my opinion would be considered "out on a limb." I'm just saying I have a hunch that he will barely not make it on his first ballot. He's a slam-dunk eventually (next year if not this one), but I'm just taking a stab here.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Who will get in this time ?
Aikman, Madden, Thomas, White
Plus Carson, Grimm, Moon all with at least a shot.

Who would I vote for (I'm guessing there's like a 5 player limit?)
Aikman, Grimm, Madden, Monk, and White.

[Hurst2112]

Aikman, White, Moon, Madden.

That's it for this year.

[ISiddiqui]

I see Aikman, White, Thomas, and Madden making it in. Moon may make it, but if he doesn't, he'll make it next year. Also one of the old timers will get in.

[Darkiller]

To me, Warren Moon clearly is the most intriguing candidate this year.
He has all the numbers you want (Top 5 All time in every passing categories), he has an impressive collection of Pro Bowl selections (9), has played for a very long time etc...etc...

BUT, his Playoff record is abysmal (not sure he actually ever won a Playoff game in his career), you don't have a lot of memorable highlight reals of him playing (no big time moments really come to mind...), and he was never the best QB of his era nor of any single season.

I think he is such an interesting candidate because to tell you the truth, during his playing days, I never thought he'd be considered later for the Hall of Fame, and now that he is on the ballot, I see a lot of people believing he should and is likely to make it...on the first ballot nonetheless !

[cthomer5000]

BUT, his Playoff record is abysmal (not sure he actually ever won a Playoff game in his career)
3-7 all-time in the playoffs

[Darkiller]

3-7 all-time in the playoffs
My bad then, it's clearly better than I thought.

[miami_fan]

I wonder how much the voters will take in to account his CFL career when they consider his status as a HOFer. I am pretty sure that will be brought up when his media rep makes his presentation next week.

[Craptacular]

Aikman, Moon, Thomas, Thomas, and White.

edit: Just to add, I would be least surprised if Derrick Thomas does not make it.

[Raven Hawk]

I wonder how much the voters will take in to account his CFL career when they consider his status as a HOFer. I am pretty sure that will be brought up when his media rep makes his presentation next week.
Which makes you wonder. It is called the Pro Football Hall of Fame, not the NFL Hall of Fame. When Flutie is eligible, will he make it?

Reggie White, Troy Aikman and John Madden are shoe-ins.

Then I'd go with Russ Grimm and Art Monk. Admittedly, my feelings towards Michael Irvin are biased by his behavior outside of football. He should get in, but I don't feel that he is a first-ballot guy.

[TazFTW]

Then I'd go with Russ Grimm and Art Monk. Admittedly, my feelings towards Michael Irvin are biased by his behavior outside of football. He should get in, but I don't feel that he is a first-ballot guy.
It's Irvin's second year. Aikman, Moon, Thurman Thomas, and Reggie White are the ones that are eligible for the first time.

Who would I vote for (I'm guessing there's like a 5 player limit?)
There's a minimum of 3 and a max of 6.


As for the off the field stuff, I remember watching something on either ESPNEWS or maybe PTI (Wilbon is on the board of selectors) and the guy said that they are instructed to only look at the on the field production. Of course it wouldn't surprise me if the off the field stuff did influence a selector's vote.

I would like to see Aikman, Moon, White, Madden, Carson, and Irvin get elected. I doubt Irvin will get elected this year but I do think 6 are going in (maybe Thurman or Wright).

[TazFTW]

dola

Looking at who is on the selection committee, I'm pretty sure it was Peter King on The Hotlist who talked about focusing on the on the field contribution. He was talking about why Irvin should be elected but probably will not be elected this year because there is a strong group of nominees.

[oykib]

I still don't get the fascination with Monk.

Irvin was clearly better and even he is somewhat borderline.

I'll go Aikman, White, Carson, Madden, and D. Thomas.

[Warhammer]

Madden, Aikman, White, D. Thomas, Grimm

[Darkiller]

Last I read from various HOF voters in their respective newspapers, there is a growing sentiment that RB Thurman Thomas "might" get in this year and that if he doesn't, it will eventually happen soon....

stay tuned...

[Darkiller]

To add a bit of content to the discussion, here is what SI's editor and HOF voter Peter King said today regarding Saturday's vote, in his weekly "Monday Morning QB" column:


" I think, five days away from the Hall of Fame voting, here's my best guess on how it will go for a very strong class: Troy Aikman and Reggie White get in easily. Then it's a horse race. In order, the guys who I think have the best shot: John Madden, Thurman Thomas, Bob Kuechenberg, Harry Carson, Michael Irvin, Rayfield Wright. A maximum of six can be enshrined. I've just listed eight. Of the seven remaining, my guess, in order of the support they'll garner, is Warren Moon, Art Monk, L.C Greenwood, Derrick Thomas, Russ Grimm, Gary Zimmerman, Claude Humphrey."

[Hurst2112]

Don't know if this was ever looked into:

Who are the best RB and WR that aren't in the hall? I am talking stats alone. Rings and such don't matter. Just wondering who is left.

[miami_fan]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9207778

DETROIT (Feb. 4, 2006) -- Emmitt Smith believes Hall of Fame voters are holding Michael Irvin's personal problems against him.

And he's incensed by it.

Smith, the NFL's career rushing leader and eligible for the Hall in four more years, campaigned vigorously for his former Dallas Cowboys teammate.

Irvin is on the ballot for the second time, and election results will be announced Feb. 5. Smith senses the wide receiver didn't get in last year because of Irvin's off-field troubles.

"But you're going to try to bring this personal side of it?" Smith said. "This is what he's done off the field -- what has that got to do with what he's done on the football field?"

Pounding his finger on a table and emphasizing every single word, Smith made his point.

"This is the Pro Football Hall of Fame, not the Life Hall of Fame. His stats are what they are. They are not going to change."

"There should be a set criteria in terms of understanding ... what it takes to get to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. If you're an athlete and you've got credentials like Michael Irvin -- Pro Bowls, records, Super Bowls, all those things -- if you stack up against that, whoever the panel is, somebody needs to sign off on it."

Irvin was arrested in November for an outstanding warrant on an unpaid speeding ticket, then charged with misdemeanor possession of drug paraphernalia after police searched his car.

In 1996, Irvin pleaded no contest to felony cocaine possession in exchange for four years of deferred probation, a $10,000 fine and dismissal of misdemeanor marijuana possession charges. He also was arrested on drug possession charges in 2000, but they were later dropped.

Irvin is one of 15 finalists for the election. Also on the ballot is the other member of the Cowboys' Triplets, quarterback Troy Aikman, in his first year of eligibility.

The late Reggie White, Warren Moon and Thurman Thomas also are eligible for the first time.

Other finalists are Harry Carson, L.C. Greenwood, Russ Grimm, Claude Humphrey, Bob Kuechenberg, Art Monk, Derrick Thomas and Gary Zimmerman. John Madden and Rayfield Wright are senior candidates.

Three to six of the finalists will be selected for the class of 2006 and will be inducted in Canton, Ohio, on the weekend of Aug. 5-6.

A 39-member panel will vote on the finalists. A candidate must get 80 percent of the vote to be elected. If fewer than three get 80 percent, the candidate with the next highest percentage will be chosen.

Smith, who should be a slam-dunk for enshrinement when eligible, doesn't like the secrecy of the voting.

"If you're going to sit there behind closed doors and not show your face and not tell people who you voted for, shame on you," he said. "Shame on you for a lot of reasons, because No. 1 if you're man or woman enough to make a vote against a person, you should be man or woman enough to tell someone why you did it. That's the part for me that's totally disappointing.

"A player should be honored to be here. And when you start seeing stuff like this, what honor is there? Some people get snubbed because of what? Nobody knows. Everybody's behind closed doors still making their vote. Still walking up to the player's face and smiling in their face and talking behind their back at the same time, that's not cool."

Last year, Aikman campaigned for Irvin, who set a record with 11 100-yard receiving games in 1995, when the Triplets won their third Super Bowl. He finished his career with 750 receptions for 11,904 yards and 65 touchdowns.

"If we went in together it would mean a lot," Aikman said. "I'm biased. If there was ever a receiver that had a Hall of Fame career, in my opinion it's Michael Irvin."

This year, Aikman and White appear the front-runners for enshrinement.

"I played it to win championships and win as many games as I could," Aikman said. "I feel like I did it as well as anybody that's played the game. I'm happy that we won three world championships."

White, who suffered from sleep apnea and sarcoidosis, died Dec. 26, 2004, at age 43. Considered one of the great defensive ends of his era, he was the career sacks leader with 198 when he retired.

White also was the first major free agent to sign with the Packers, in 1993. That helped turn the storied franchise back into winners, and he won the 1997 Super Bowl with Green Bay.

Moon could become the first black quarterback in the hall.

"It would solidify everything that's been talked about the position back in the '60s and '70s, when blacks first wanted to play that position," said Moon, who played for Houston, Minnesota, Seattle and Kansas City in the NFL after starring in the CFL.

"All the stereotypes that were out there -- that we couldn't lead, that we couldn't think, that we couldn't throw the football -- all the different things that were talked about us ... if you can get into this elite group as the best ever who played the game at quarterback, then those questions can all be answered."

[Darkiller]

The latest buzz from Detroit, less than 3 hours away from the vote, as John Clayton leading a push for Warren Moon's induction and that it is gaining momentum...

[miami_fan]

I know a member of the media makes the pitch for the canidates. Is that restricted to the media members who are doing the voting or can any media member make the pitch?

[Darkiller]

I think anyone one on the committee can make the campaign he wants to try to gather votes for the candidates he wants to see enshrined in the Hall of Fame.

[maxwarrior]

The HOF is becoming a place for media hogs. Players like Art Monk get overlooked because they were good citizens and didn't do stupid endzone tricks. There is no reason to keep out a player who retired as the leading receiver in catches and yards. Also including 3 Super Bowl rings. I wonder why the Redskins had such a great running game. Humm, maybe one of the best ever blockers at WR. Never had a HOF QB throwing to him. Just made every key first down the team needed.

[cthomer5000]

Players like Art Monk get overlooked because they don't belong in the hall of fame.

[maxwarrior]

Steve Larget does...
Michael Irvin does...
Lynn Swann does...

[Craptacular]

And the winners are:

Troy Aikman
Harry Carson
John Madden
Warren Moon
Reggie White
Rayfield Wright

[Craptacular]

I would like to see Aikman, Moon, White, Madden, Carson, and Irvin get elected. I doubt Irvin will get elected this year but I do think 6 are going in (maybe Thurman or Wright).
I'd say Taz is our winner.

[JeeberD]

Glad to see that two Cowboys made it even if Mikey didn't. Hopefully he gets in next year...

Oh, and congrats to Warren Moon! :)

[JeeberD]

Dola-

Is Madden going in for his coaching or his announcing or both?

[Craptacular]

Dola-

Is Madden going in for his coaching or his announcing or both?
It better be for his coaching ... he belongs in the announcer Hall of Shame.

[Darkiller]

It had been a while since the class comprised 6 members...

I am very, very suprised that they chose Warren Moon on his 1st year of eligibility....

[Craptacular]

It had been a while since the class comprised 6 members...

I am very, very suprised that they chose Warren Moon on his 1st year of eligibility....
I'm not ... he deserves it, especially since this is the Pro Football HoF and not just the NFL.

[Darkiller]

I'm not ... he deserves it, especially since this is the Pro Football HoF and not just the NFL.
I know what you mean but I'm not talking about the stats.
I'm talking about the lasting moments, the championship moments, SB moments, big time plays etc...I can't remember any from Moon and for that, I don't think he should have been a 1st ballot guy.

[Craptacular]

I know what you mean but I'm not talking about the stats.
I'm talking about the lasting moments, the championship moments, SB moments, big time plays etc...I can't remember any from Moon and for that, I don't think he should have been a 1st ballot guy.
The CFL ain't the NFL for sure, but he did win five straight Grey Cups. I would agree with you if you only looked at his NFL career (even though he's still a good candidate), but his early days in the CFL put him over the top.

[Craptacular]

Man, someone was waiting to update Wikipedia. From the Warren Moon page:

During his NFL career, Warren Moon was named to nine Pro Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Bowl) games. Moon currently works as a broadcaster for the Seattle Seahawks. He was elected into the Pro Football Hall of Fame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame) in 2006, becoming the first undrafted quarterback to be so honored.

[Swaggs]

do they release voting totals (like they do in MLB)?

[Darkiller]

I just hope they stop the shit of saying Moon is the first African-American QB in the HOF. This belongs to last year's inductee Fritz Pollard...

Amazing it took'em only 1 year to forget that.

As for the CFL comments (Craptacular), of course I see the point but I can't be convinced. Then, probably Jeff Garcia and Doug Flutie have a real shot at the Hall of Fame ?

[Darkiller]

There is no question I'm happy for the man (Moon), he looks so happy now on the podium...

[miami_fan]

The only one I am suprised by was Carson. I think he deserved to get in but I was pretty he had no shot when he ripped the voters last year. I wish Mike would have gotten in this year with Troy. Maybe he gets in with Emmitt.

[cthomer5000]

As for the CFL comments (Craptacular), of course I see the point but I can't be convinced. Then, probably Jeff Garcia and Doug Flutie have a real shot at the Hall of Fame ? Flutie has had almost 0 success in the NFL. Garcia had a few good years. Moon was atop QB for a while in the NFL. I think he was an iffy choice, but I'm guessing his CFL credentials helped push him in - but they weren't the determining factor.

I have to say I'm really surprised he made it.

[Darkiller]

I was kidding about Garcia and Flutie ;-))

[miami_fan]

What is the over/under on the number of incoherent sentences in John Madden's HOF speech?

[miami_fan]

Dola-

Is Madden going in for his coaching or his announcing or both?

As a coach

[JeeberD]

As a coach

OK. He coached ten years and won one Super Bowl. Yeah, he had a nice winning percentage over those years, but it seems like to be a HOF coach you would need a longer career than that.

When's Jimmy Johnson going to get inducted?

[cthomer5000]

OK. He coached ten years and won one Super Bowl. Yeah, he had a nice winning percentage over those years, but it seems like to be a HOF coach you would need a longer career than that. I think you're underselling him, it's not like they were 0-16 his other years. They had one of the most sustained levels of success in NFL history:


1969 lost AFL Championship Game
1970 lost AFC Championship Game
1971 missed playoffs
1972 lost divisional playoff
1973 lost AFC Championship Game
1974 lost AFC Championship Game
1975 lost AFC Championship Game
1976 won Super Bowl
1977 lost AFC Championship Game
1978 missed playoffs


edit: but i don't deny he probably wouldn't be going in if it weren't for his broadcasting career

[JPhillips]

The problem with Madden is that he had to go in for only his coaching or his announcing. Madden without a doubt deserves to be in the HOF, but his accomplishments should be bundled. When you add his coaching, announcing and video game franchise together its impossible to argue that he isn't one of the most well-known and influential men the game has ever seen.

And when the hell are the Sabols and NFL Films going to get their due?

[Darkiller]

Madden absolutely deserved to be in a long time ago.
He has the highest winning % of any coach, ever. He coached 10 years (so did Vince Lombardi) and had his Raiders team in the championship game 6 times...winning a title.

[miami_fan]

The problem with Madden is that he had to go in for only his coaching or his announcing. Madden without a doubt deserves to be in the HOF, but his accomplishments should be bundled. When you add his coaching, announcing and video game franchise together its impossible to argue that he isn't one of the most well-known and influential men the game has ever seen.

And when the hell are the Sabols and NFL Films going to get their due?

He could have been recognized as a contributor a la Al Davis who is in as a owner, head coach, and the commissioner of the AFL

[miami_fan]

Interesting note for all the coaches who are being touted as "surefire" HOFers. Madden is now the 21st guy inducted in as a head coach

[Darkiller]

Quartebacks in the Hall of Fame

With the addition of Troy Aikman and Warren Moon, they are now 23 QBs (among 235 players, coaches and contributors), enshrined in the Hall of Fame.

-- listed in alphabetical order --

Troy Aikman
George Blanda
Terry Bradshaw
Len Dawson
John Elway
Dan Fouts
Otto Graham
Bob Griese
Sonny Jurgensen
Jim Kelly
Bobby Layne
Dan Marino
Joe Montana
Warren Moon
Joe Namath
Bart Starr
Roger Staubach
Fran Tarkenton
Y.A Tittle
Johnny Unitas
Norm Van Brocklin
Bob Waterfield
Steve Young

[miami_fan]

SI.com's Paul Zimmerman has been a Hall of Fame voter for the last 15 years. He spoke with SI.com's Andrew Perloff about today's selection process, which resulted in the election of Troy Aikman, Reggie White, Warren Moon, Harry Carson, John Madden and Rayfield Wright for enshrinement in Canton.

Andrew Perloff: How did the voting go today?

Dr. Z: It was the toughest class I've ever seen. If I was writing a story on it, I'd lead with the fact they actually served us two meals. It lasted from 7:30 a.m. to 1 p.m., which is much longer than usual.

Perloff: How strong was the class?

Dr. Z: Furman Bisher of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution has been a voter for a long time and he said it was the greatest class he's ever seen. I agree.

Perloff: What player caused the most heated debate?

Dr. Z: Well, some of the debates got testy, but none were vicious. A real interesting player was Warren Moon. I think people were aware he would be the first black quarterback and some of the obstacles he had faced in his career. The fact he was the MVP of the Rose Bowl at University of Washington and still had to go up to the CFL. And then someone asked if it was appropriate to consider his CFL numbers. It didn't really matter, he got in on strength of his NFL career.

Perloff: What players did you support the most?

Dr. Z: I really got behind two guys: Bob Kuechenberg and Harry Carson. One got in, one didn't. Thank god Carson finally made it. He had said he didn't want to be considered again after being let down twice. I understand, he was frustrated. And he's a proud old warrior. I think some people felt bad, and you know Peter King and I were behind him. Peter pointed out Bill Belichick's lavish praise of Carson from their Giants days. I'm just really glad he got in. And I'll keep fighting for Kuechenberg.

Perloff: Who was the most notable player not to get in this year?

Dr. Z: It was such a great class, that some worthy guys didn't get in. I spoke on behalf of Thurman Thomas. Back in Super Bowl XXV, I pushed hard to get him the MVP even though the Bills lost to the Giants. They gave it to New York's Ottis Anderson, even though Thomas' numbers were much better. They said you couldn't give it to the losing team, which they actually did back in Super Bowl V when Dallas' Chuck Howley won it. I was so outspoken about it, they threw me out as a selector of Super Bowl MVPs. So in a way Thurman Thomas cost me that job.

Perloff: What about Michael Irvin?

Dr. Z: There wasn't a negative thing said about him. We are told not to consider off-the-field issues. I honestly think he was a victim of the numbers game this year. And maybe some people thought three Cowboys (Aikman and Wright made it in) were too much.

Perloff: Tell me about the John Madden discussion.

Dr. Z: It was raised that Madden has had such a profound influence on the NFL through his video game. I don't see what that has to do with anything. I said, 'What about the Bob Kuechenberg video game?' And there is that quesiton out there about wheter Al Davis was really the puppet master in Oakland. But Madden does have the highest winning percentage of any coach, which has to be taken into account. I voted for him.

Perloff: And Reggie White?

Dr. Z: The presenter from Milwaukee stood up and said, 'There doesn't have to be a word said about Reggie White.' And he was right.



Perloff: Is it common that the strongest candidates aren't really discussed at length?

Dr. Z: Usually that happens with the quarterbacks. Like Dan Marino. But White is an exception.

Perloff: Who else came close?

Dr. Z: Defensive end Claude Humrphey was interesting. Some people brought up that he wasn't strong against the run. The same was said about Derrick Thomas. I support Humphrey's candidacy but I do think Thomas, as great as he was at rushing the passer, was a bit of a one-trick pony. And Thomas may have been hurt by Carson being elected, since they were both linebackers.

Perloff: Will Humphrey make it eventually?

Dr. Z: I don't know. He keeps coming up against L.C. Greenwood and they tend to cancel each other out. There are no negatives on either. Kind of like how Lynn Swann and John Stallworth kept canceling each other out. But they got in.

Perloff: Any other comments on the guys who didn't get in?

Dr. Z: Russ Grimm and Bob Kuechenberg may have canceled each other out. And Gary Zimmerman may have been knocked out by Wright getting in. They aren't going to put in two offensive tackles.

Perloff: What about Art Monk?

Dr. Z: The negative is that when you played the Redskins, you didn't say, 'How can I stop Art Monk?' He wasn't a focal figure. The positive about Monk: All he did was help the team win. He was a good, sturdy team guy. But that wasn't enough.

Perloff: Most people don't know much about Rayfield Wright.Tell me about him.

Dr. Z: Wright's a senior candidate. The only negative was Wright, a tackle for the Cowboys, gave up three sacks to Greenwood in Super Bowl X. But the people who supported him rode through that. Wright was a finalist last year, and was very generous thanking people just to get to that level. He's a very gentle, humble man. I've supported him all along and I'm glad he made it.


I like the comment by the presenter for Reggie White. I am going to have to go back and review Claude Humrphey's numbers. I never realized looked at him as being that close to a HOFer.

Anybody have a list or know of some of the first timers for next year?

[ISiddiqui]

It better be for his coaching ... he belongs in the announcer Hall of Shame.Not at all... early on in his career, he was the best announcer out there. Somewhere in the late 90s, he started getting bad.

[PackerFanatic]

He started getting senial...

But to be honest, I am surprised it took him this long to get in there, as annoying as he can be at times.

[TazFTW]

I'd say Taz is our winner.
Damn, I'm good. :cool:

I wish Mike would have gotten in this year with Troy. Maybe he gets in with Emmitt.
I hope it doesn't take that long. Emmitt still has like 3 years before he becomes eligible.

[TazFTW]

Anybody have a list or know of some of the first timers for next year?
The notables are Terrell Davis, Jamal Anderson, Randall Cunningham, Eric Allen, Carnell Lake, Bruce Mathews, Tony Boselli (he may have been eligible this year), and Ricky Watters. Dick Vermeil will also be eligible because there is no wait for non-players.

I think Bruce Matthews gets in. TD is going to be interesting because there is going to be a length of career argument.

This looks like a class that Irvin can get elected in.

[miami_fan]

Damn, I'm good. :cool:


I hope it doesn't take that long. Emmitt still has like 3 years before he becomes eligible.

I hope he gets in next year as well. However, I have a feeling that some of the voters really believe they need to punish Michael for his off field transgressions. I don't think that punishment would last past 2009 when I Emmitt would be eligible. But it could.

[thealmighty]

My man Rayfield!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :)

[ISiddiqui]

The notables are Terrell Davis, Jamal Anderson, Randall Cunningham, Eric Allen, Carnell Lake, Bruce Mathews, Tony Boselli (he may have been eligible this year), and Ricky Watters. Dick Vermeil will also be eligible because there is no wait for non-players.

I think Bruce Matthews gets in. TD is going to be interesting because there is going to be a length of career argument.

This looks like a class that Irvin can get elected in.I think Matthews makes it and there will be an interesting argument for Watters (who is 15th all time in rushing yards and 13th in yards from scrimmage). I think Watters will be barely left out. I think Irvin and Thurman Thomas get voted in next year.

[clintl]

Not at all... early on in his career, he was the best announcer out there. Somewhere in the late 90s, he started getting bad.

Yes, when he first started out in the early 80s, Madden completely revolutionized football color commentary. He discussed strategy and how plays worked to a degree that no one else was close to doing. Somewhere along the way, he became a personality instead of a commentator.

[Darkiller]

Thanks Miami-Fan for posting the Dr. Z feedback. Very, very good to read this from a HOF voter, after the vote just took place.

As for 2007, anyone knows if any other 1st year QB will be listed, other than Randall Cunningham (who has absolutely zero chances) ?

[Eaglesfan27]

Thanks Miami-Fan for posting the Dr. Z feedback. Very, very good to read this from a HOF voter, after the vote just took place.

As for 2007, anyone knows if any other 1st year QB will be listed, other than Randall Cunningham (who has absolutely zero chances) ?

Yes, thank you. I love the Reggie White comment.

Also, I agree that Randall doesn't have a chance. He was my favorite QB to watch when I was a teenager, but he doesn't belong in the hall of fame.

[miami_fan]

I was looking at some of the first timers that become eligible next year. After several years of sure-fire locks among the first timers, there might not be one first timer. If the likes of Irvin, Monk, Thomas don't get in next year, they really may never get in.

[cthomer5000]

Also, I agree that Randall doesn't have a chance. He was my favorite QB to watch when I was a teenager, but he doesn't belong in the hall of fame.
If they include his Tecmo Super Bowl career, he's first-ballot material.

[Eaglesfan27]

If they include his Tecmo Super Bowl career, he's first-ballot material.
Or his early Madden career. I was unstoppable with the roll out pass/run ;)

[Havok]

blows my mind how some people think Monk shouldn't make the hall of hame but somehow Irvin does.

[larrymcg421]

blows my mind how some people think Monk shouldn't make the hall of hame but somehow Irvin does.

Maybe because Monk was never as dominating as Irvin was. Opposing defenses did not fear Art Monk. They didn't gameplan around him. They definitely feared Irvin.

And if you look at their career numbers beyond the simple career totals, Irvin comes out far more impressive. More 1,000 yard seasons, more Pro Bowls, more seasons in the league top 10.