Best Sports Sim Available Today

[PSUColonel]

Here are the choices

[gottimd]

Huh? where did the other poll go?

[Antmeister]

ok what kind of crap is this. The poll is gone now!


Ughhhhhhhh!

[Eaglesfan27]

The third time is the charm ;)

[gottimd]

No championship manager 2006?:D

[PSUColonel]

No this is just another example of American Democracy in action ;)

[path12]

No contest for me. FM all the way.

[DaddyTorgo]

FM2006 all the way. and i lost mad posts!

[timmynausea]

FOF 2004. You soccer guys will not come to the house that Gindin built and get away with this.

[Eaglesfan27]

FOF 2004. You soccer guys will not come to the house that Gindin built and get away with this.

Hey, I love FOF 2004. It's a strong 3rd on my list just barely behind FBCB.

[Ben E Lou]

You soccer guysAre you SURE that they're guys? ;)

[Schmidty]

I voted for BBCF, since, at this time, it's the game that I play the most. It's deep, but not tedious.

[Raiders Army]

FOF 2004

[Emiliano]

FM 2006 is a really great game, but I chose FOF 2004. It just has the perfect balance, in everything, for me. And it's a 2 years and 1/2 old product. I've started a new career just a couple of days ago, and I'm having a LOT of fun, again. It's THE masterpiece.

[Raiders Army]

I voted for BBCF, since, at this time, it's the game that I play the most. It's deep, but not tedious.
Interestingly enough, I was thinking about the design decisions that go into a game. Where do the developers draw the line between realism and fun? I mean, would it actually be fun to negotiate a contract with so many riders, counteroffers, etc. for each player that it took five hours to negotiate your rookie contracts?

[Darkiller]

Too bad FOF2 wasn't mentionned in the list...thus I had to vote for FOF2004 as my 2nd choice ;)

[Tim Tellean]

FM 2006

[Ben E Lou]

I mean, would it actually be fun to negotiate a contract with so many riders, counteroffers, etc. for each player that it took five hours to negotiate your rookie contracts?This was one of the issues that killed TPF for me. Yeah, I know the way it works in TPF is more realistic than FOF, but the bottom line was that going through all of that when 90% of my RFA's are just 2nd-year guys getting minisal deals again became nothing more than a big annoyance every season.

[Icy]

Well talking about the best one there is no doubt that FM06 is the best, no contest. Now the ones i have enjoyed the more past year are OOTP6.5 and FBCB. I have big hopes on BBCF and TCB for this year as i'm playing them more and more.

[Abe Sargent]

If FM didn't win, it'd be because of homerism.

-Anxiety

[Ben E Lou]

If FM didn't win, it'd be because of homerism.

-AnxietyOr because some people can't get into a soccer sim.

[Daimyo]

FOF was my firt love, but its not even close between FOF and FM and I don't even really like soccer all that much. FM is just an amazing game and you can really tell that it has a huge advantage in man power and time put into its development.

[Abe Sargent]

Or because some people can't get into a soccer sim.


Which would likely be due to homerism. Glad you agree with me!


-Anxiety

[Ben E Lou]

Which would likely be due to homerism. Glad you agree with me!


-AnxietyNo, not homerism. I really, really tried to get into it. Bought it, played it, went back to it, but I couldn't get past that the results were meaningless to me.

[Abe Sargent]

No, not homerism. I really, really tried to get into it. Bought it, played it, went back to it, but I couldn't get past that the results were meaningless to me.


There are two forms of homerism I refer to here:

Football vs Soccer. Since most of the posters here love football and are American, soccer fans are dimished. So we get people who just never got into soccer that much and its not their thing as a result, because they weren't raised on it like soccer.

And then, this is FOFC no FMC, so a lot of people have that automatic bias.

In fact, I'd guess that a lot of posters have never played FM, yet almost everybody here has played FOF or TCY at one point in time or another.


I'd bet that if you were raised on soccer, you'd love FM.

-Anxiety

[Ben E Lou]

There are two forms of homerism I refer to here:

Football vs Soccer. Since most of the posters here love football and are American, soccer fans are dimished. So we get people who just never got into soccer that much and its not their thing as a result, because they weren't raised on it like soccer.

And then, this is FOFC no FMC, so a lot of people have that automatic bias. Ah. I thought you were referring to the latter. The former is obvious. Ability to understand the game and/or attach significance to the results is a prerequisite for enjoyment of a sim of it.

[Schmidty]

There are two forms of homerism I refer to here:

Football vs Soccer. Since most of the posters here love football and are American, soccer fans are dimished. So we get people who just never got into soccer that much and its not their thing as a result, because they weren't raised on it like soccer.

And then, this is FOFC no FMC, so a lot of people have that automatic bias.

In fact, I'd guess that a lot of posters have never played FM, yet almost everybody here has played FOF or TCY at one point in time or another.


I'd bet that if you were raised on soccer, you'd love FM.

-Anxiety

I like soccer. I don't like FM a ton, mostly because I despise the interface, and the game is too microscopic to me.

It has nothing to do with homerism: It has everything to do with personal preference game-wise.

[path12]

I like soccer. I don't like FM a ton, mostly because I despise the interface, and the game is too microscopic to me.

It has nothing to do with homerism: It has everything to do with personal preference game-wise.

I'm curious about why you despise the interface. I've found it extremely intuitive, but I have been playing it in one version or another for five years. On the other hand, while I love FOF, the small font and all the double clicking drive me crazy after awhile.

[VPI97]

FOF is great...but FM 2006 is better than every other game on the list put together.

[Sweed]

FM 06. I bought my first fm game this year and the depth is simply amazing. The learning curve has been steep for this American (I am just really starting to scratch the surface) but worth the effort.

OOTP though is still the game that over the course of a year gets the most play time. I would expect that to continue with the new SI version this year.

[Schmidty]

I'm curious about why you despise the interface. I've found it extremely intuitive, but I have been playing it in one version or another for five years. On the other hand, while I love FOF, the small font and all the double clicking drive me crazy after awhile.

FWIW, I can't stand FOF's interface either (though I love the game). FM seems to be the type of game where you get used to the interface, and then find it intuitive. I just can't get past the first part. To me, the interface is......like a 1985 Volvo: Boxy and lacking any personality. It also feels like way too many different screens that you have to click through to me. I love other games (like BBCF) that move the season along with an easily accessable, or always present, menu.

It's funny how upset and defensive FM fans get if anyone doesn't like, or criticizes the game in any way. It's like eating a giant steak in front of a PETA nutjob. :)

[astrosfan64]

Or because some people can't get into a soccer sim.

That still doesn't make FOF a better sim/game then football manager. The best simmulation ever made is FM 2006. There really can't be a debate on the subject can there?

I've even seen some Fast Break College Basketball votes also. A fun game, but it can't come close to FM 2006.

The best sports sim on the market is hands down FM2006.

If the question was the most fun sports sim on the market, I could see the arguments for the other titles.

[Ben E Lou]

That still doesn't make FOF a better sim/game then football manager. The best simmulation ever made is FM 2006. There really can't be a debate on the subject can there?.But it would be an extremely rare person to vote for a game as the "best" that they do not enjoy. I don't play text sims so that others can have a good time. The best text sim to me is the one that I enjoy the most.

And I can't get into kickball.

[Schmidty]

That still doesn't make FOF a better sim/game then football manager. The best simmulation ever made is FM 2006. There really can't be a debate on the subject can there?

See, that's the attitude that I'm talking about. Just because a lot of people agree with you, doesn't make your statement a universal truth. By saying that, you insult the intelligence of the people that don't agree with you.

Although I am not fond of FM because of the things I mentioned in a prior post, I'm almost to the point that I wouldn't play it even if I did like it, since I can't stand a lot of the conceited fans of the game.

[Schmidty]

The best text sim to me is the one that I enjoy the most.

Bingo.

[sovereignstar]

Tournament of Dreams?

LOL

[Buccaneer]

I voted for FBCB obviously because it is the one game that changed my views radically on what a text sim should be (i.e., one-more-turn addiction and showing only the information that is critical to decision making without being overloaded visually and without throwing up every bit of information that can humanly fit). And it's funny, I am not a fan of college basketball, even though I had been in the past.

The only one I would have voted for would be OOTP5 with Lahman. That fits SkyDog as the game that I enjoyed most playing, not so much that it's the best one out there.

Never could get into OOTP 6.x for some reason; and of the few others that I had played, FOF was the anti-one-more-turn game and am still waiting for something better with BBCF, even though I do see others enjoying it.

Finally, SD is right about FM. How can one possibly enjoy playing a game where you don't care what your team do or anything about the players and their performance? Afterall, no one truthfully be objective about this; the best = the one you like the most.

[path12]

FWIW, I can't stand FOF's interface either (though I love the game). FM seems to be the type of game where you get used to the interface, and then find it intuitive. I just can't get past the first part. To me, the interface is......like a 1985 Volvo: Boxy and lacking any personality. It also feels like way too many different screens that you have to click through to me. I love other games (like BBCF) that move the season along with an easily accessable, or always present, menu.

It's funny how upset and defensive FM fans get if anyone doesn't like, or criticizes the game in any way. It's like eating a giant steak in front of a PETA nutjob. :)

Not being defensive at all, I was genuinely curious. Thanks for the explanation.

[ThunderingHERD]

Where is Football Mogul?

[BYU 14]

I love Football and am really indifferent about Soccer, but, I have to say FM2006 is far and away the winner.

It says something to me that a sim can take a sport I don't even like and make it exciting for me, wallowing around in the bushes Coaching a lower tier English Team.

[ice4277]

After having played CM/FM for so many years, I have a LOT of trouble getting into other text sims. It gets my vote by far. I guess if I was picking a runner-up, it would be OOTP, but that is a very distant second.

[Abe Sargent]

But it would be an extremely rare person to vote for a game as the "best" that they do not enjoy. I don't play text sims so that others can have a good time. The best text sim to me is the one that I enjoy the most.

And I can't get into kickball.


See, I disagree with that, and let me give you an example from my recent past:


I just opened and played Civ IV a few days ago. At first I was really excited, because I've always been a huge Civ fan. I love some of the changes that they made. This is a very well put together game, with great graphics, streamlined game mechanics, interesting additions, and such.

After three days I put it down and haven't picked it up since. I beat it a few times, lost a few times, and now I'm done. I realize that I am no longer in a Civ place in my gaming. It's just not for me any longer.

Now, if you had a poll on the best turn based strategy games from the past few years, I'd probably vote for Civ IV - it has tremendous graphics, sound, mechanics, easier to play, neat changes, etc. It's just not for me, but I'd still think of it as the best. You know what I mean?

That's why I don't easily understand someone saying Tournament Dreams or Bowl Bound (or even FOF) is objectively better than FM. FM has more control over tactics, way better immersement, more players, more coaches, more media, more contract options, more ways of building a star franchise, more detail, more skills, more personality by players, more mind games, and the list goes on and on.

I don't easily see how someone can claim "I have more fun with (Insert Your Game Here) so it must be better, despite a laundry list of things thus other game does better" when I can say it about Civ IV versus, say, EU2. I love EU2. I've spent more time playing it in the past few years than anything else, but Civ IV is absolutely a better game.

Why can't others say the same about FM?

-Anxiety

[astrosfan64]

See, I disagree with that, and let me give you an example from my recent past:


I just opened and played Civ IV a few days ago. At first I was really excited, because I've always been a huge Civ fan. I love some of the changes that they made. This is a very well put together game, with great graphics, streamlined game mechanics, interesting additions, and such.

After three days I put it down and haven't picked it up since. I beat it a few times, lost a few times, and now I'm done. I realize that I am no longer in a Civ place in my gaming. It's just not for me any longer.

Now, if you had a poll on the best turn based strategy games from the past few years, I'd probably vote for Civ IV - it has tremendous graphics, sound, mechanics, easier to play, neat changes, etc. It's just not for me, but I'd still think of it as the best. You know what I mean?

That's why I don't easily understand someone saying Tournament Dreams or Bowl Bound (or even FOF) is objectively better than FM. FM has more control over tactics, way better immersement, more players, more coaches, more media, more contract options, more ways of building a star franchise, more detail, more skills, more personality by players, more mind games, and the list goes on and on.

I don't easily see how someone can claim "I have more fun with (Insert Your Game Here) so it must be better, despite a laundry list of things thus other game does better" when I can say it about Civ IV versus, say, EU2. I love EU2. I've spent more time playing it in the past few years than anything else, but Civ IV is absolutely a better game.

Why can't others say the same about FM?

-Anxiety

Exactly what he said. Don't forget that FM 2006 FAR AND AWAY has the best simmulation engine for any sport period. It is the only game that accurately models the entire game in a 2d fashion. Their 2d engine PROVES the numbers / statistics. You can watch a game flow and see it looks like real soccer.

The only other game that comes close to the detail and accuracy of FM2006 is EHM and that is still a ways off from matching FM.

Till Arlie or Jim give us a basic X and O engine for football, we won't ever really know what has happened on a play. I can't wait for the day that we eventually get a football game with a 2d engine similiar to FM 2006.

[sovereignstar]

Schmidty is on to something.

[Eaglesfan27]

Different strokes for different folks.

[Izulde]

I voted for TPB 2K5. I adore soccer enough to where I'm going to start playing it again and resume my pursuit of advancing the coaching ladder in it, and I like FM. I also really like OOTP, to where I almost voted for that one.

But in the end, it's TPB 2K5 that gets my vote because I've had more fun with it than any other text sim I've ever played. Whether it was quick simming, simming by watching, or playing out games; whether it was with my Gabriel Arcadia dynasty (that I *will* be resuming once I get my desktop up and running again by the way) or just playing out of dynasty, I got more enjoyment out of that game than any other.

Are there more things I'd like to see done with TPB? Sure, mostly in terms of improving things like the Hall of Fame, which to me seems really bare-bones right now, and the like, but it's still an incredible joy to play.

And it's going to get even better once it's patched to allow imports from TCB. :)

[WVUFAN]

It is the only game that accurately models the entire game in a 2d fashion. Their 2d engine PROVES the numbers / statistics. You can watch a game flow and see it looks like real soccer.
So, by that logic if someone made an in-depth simulation of badmitton, along with a kick-ass 2d engine so you can see the badmitton fly back and forth over the net, and goes into the details of this awesome sport, this would be a better game than FOF? C'mon.

The game and the player's relationship to that game has everything to do with how quality is perceived. As Skydog so aptly put it, if people don't like pro kickball, why should we vote for the game?

[Antmeister]

I chose FM2006, even though I haven't bought it.....yet. I am afraid to get it at this point, because I will be addicted to it and at this point I have to concentrate more on the move and getting other crap done around here.

I have played previous versions and I knew nothing about soccer, but somehow I became deeply involved with this game because the players seemed to breathe life.

I haven't played any other text sim in which I felt like I was a real decision maker for the team. With the media, the players, the coaches, the fans, and the staff vying for your attention, it feels a lot more real to me. On top of that, the visual match engine is a joy to manage and to watch. I can't say I felt that way for any other text sim.

With that said, I don't understand why people feel a need to get upset when they don't choose this as the best text sim. Each person has their own set of criteria when it comes to choosing the best game. This is very similar to sport. Some will say Michael Jordan is the best while others may say Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Kareem, etc..... It all depends on your own set of criteria.

[Abe Sargent]

So, by that logic if someone made an in-depth simulation of badmitton, along with a kick-ass 2d engine so you can see the badmitton fly back and forth over the net, and goes into the details of this awesome sport, this would be a better game than FOF? C'mon.




I would agree with that. If FOF Curling was released and it was better than FOF, then I'd admit it, no matter how much I loathe Curling.

-Anxiety

[Solecismic]

Knowing how hard Marc and his team work on creating what's really the essence of a text sim, I'm really honored to have my work mentioned alongside his (even if this is FOF Central).

Seeing the direction EA is headed, I'm somewhat glad I didn't take the offer to move to Florida. I'm not naive enough to think I could have changed their direction. I'm much more interested in adding the types of features FM has.

While I can't put together a large art budget or create an entirely custom interface, I like the direction I'm headed, with larger screens and abandoning the use of 7-pt fonts.

If anyone can give me examples of where I'm using double-clicks where I should be using single-clicks, or places where there are too many screens opened back and forth, I'd be interested in hearing about them.

[Bonegavel]

New info from JIM w0000000000t!!!!!!!111!!

[Eaglesfan27]

Knowing how hard Marc and his team work on creating what's really the essence of a text sim, I'm really honored to have my work mentioned alongside his (even if this is FOF Central).

Seeing the direction EA is headed, I'm somewhat glad I didn't take the offer to move to Florida. I'm not naive enough to think I could have changed their direction. I'm much more interested in adding the types of features FM has.

While I can't put together a large art budget or create an entirely custom interface, I like the direction I'm headed, with larger screens and abandoning the use of 7-pt fonts.

If anyone can give me examples of where I'm using double-clicks where I should be using single-clicks, or places where there are too many screens opened back and forth, I'd be interested in hearing about them.
Bold added by me to emphasize:

That is awesome news. I know that 2D is probably several years off for a solo programmer, but there are many things done in FM (such as personality modeling and news stories among others) that I think other develops in the genre should look to implement in their game.

[timmynausea]

you can see the badmitton fly back and forth over the net


That's the shuttlecock (also known as a birdie). Actually, I could also point out that it's spelled badminton, but I really just wanted to type shuttlecock.

[KeyserSoze]

FM 06.

[Coder]

If anyone can give me examples of where I'm using double-clicks where I should be using single-clicks, or places where there are too many screens opened back and forth, I'd be interested in hearing about them.

Gameplanning :)

That's the only issue I have right now, gameplanning is a chore.. I've had every FOF since the first download version, but I never played them enough to remember what gameplanning was like.. from what I've heard though, the gameplanning was done in tabs in earlier versions, but now in FOF2k4 I have to close and open a new window, which is a bit frustrating.

Other than that, just keep up the good work. I don't play solo, but the multiplayer league I'm in is the best of any leagues I've been in of any games. Sure, it's got much to do with Cringer running a fab league, but it's also made possible by the great game created by you Jim.

[mrsimperless]

I dislike not being able to view my roster whenever I want to. I constantly have to flip back and forth between my roster and my depth chart and do the depth charting position by position. It is tiresome.

I'd also like to see the depth chart during games. When a game is running I'll see a name and be like "who?"

Also, when I'm on the depth chart I almost always do the same thing. Scout Overview, then sort by overall, then sort by position. Whenever I open a player card or come back into the screen I constantly have to click the same three buttons.

Minor gripes. :)

[yabanci]

...I'm much more interested in adding the types of features FM has...

Best news I've heard in a while :)

[Icy]

...I'm much more interested in adding the types of features FM has...Players/coaches/media personalities. Apart from the brilliant match engine, i think that personalities is what make FM the best text sim. A few gammers play text sims just to replay old seasons and compare stats, but most of us play text sims like a role game, read the dynasties and you will see it crearly there. For that role game experience, to feel into a real world that moves around you is the key. Having virtual contact with your players, coaches etc and having a good news system, we can feel we are real GM's and that is why i play text sims.

[yabanci]

Players/coaches/media personalities. Apart from the brilliant match engine, i think that personalities is what make FM the best text sim. A few gammers play text sims just to replay old seasons and compare stats, but most of us play text sims like a role game, read the dynasties and you will see it crearly there. For that role game experience, to feel into a real world that moves around you is the key. Having virtual contact with your players, coaches etc and having a good news system, we can feel we are real GM's and that is why i play text sims.

exactly, especially with multiplayer where you have to wait around for the next sim, the more personality your players have the better.

[Bee]

I voted FM2006 and for me it's not even close. While there are several games on the list that I truly enjoy, none of them have the depth or level of addictiveness that FM has for me. I can understand why some people can't get into FM though. Not only is it soccer (which like some others here, I don't follow), but it's also a very detailed and intimidating sim. Not only do you have to tackle a sport you don't know much about, but you have a ton of information/data/etc without the knowledge to make informed decisions. Once you get to the point where you understand what's going on, the game really shines but it's very hard for someone who doesn't follow soccer to get to that point.

[GrantDawg]

No, not homerism. I really, really tried to get into it. Bought it, played it, went back to it, but I couldn't get past that the results were meaningless to me.

(Getting into this late) You see, that is really how I feel about FOF, and it is not because I dislike football. Football is by far my favorite sport. It is just that the actual game seems so unimportant compared to stats and salaries. No text sim has created a sense of each game being fun and meaningful except FM. I was not a soccer fan, and I still am not an avid follower, but at least FM gets what should be the corner stone of a sport sim right: the actual games.

[FrogMan]

Although I am not fond of FM because of the things I mentioned in a prior post, I'm almost to the point that I wouldn't play it even if I did like it, since I can't stand a lot of the conceited fans of the game.
You mean that how others react to and/or promote a game is gonna drive if you play or don't play said game? Wow...

I voted FM2006, simply because I can't stop playing it and the depth of it makes it the best to me, but whatever other people are saying about it isn't gonna drive me away from it, and I was a fairly regular reader of the SI forum for a little while earlier in the Fall, so I've seen much worse than the FM defenders we see around here... Who cares what they say? not me...

FM

[Ben E Lou]

at least FM gets what should be the corner stone of a sport sim right: the actual games.That may be true for you, but it certainly isn't for me. Stats, roster building, player development and long-term progression/improvement of a franchise are the things that drive my enjoyment of a text sim. Heck, in building Savannah St. from 0 Prestige into a national power in FBCB, I can't even guess at the score or even who we played against in any of our national championship games. For me, those details are secondary to the bigger picture. I've played 20ish seasons of BBCF since 1.04 came out, and I couldn't tell you the name of any QB that I've had off the top of my head. In FOF2K4, if I don't post a dynasty thread, the same would be true.

I've been playing FOF2K4 for a good bit the last week or so, but without looking at the Dynasty thread I've been posting I can't tell you the name of either of the two QB's I've used in the last 3 or 4 seasons or our starting RB without looking it up. I can, however, tell you that it was an Empty Cupboad career that peaked in the 2010-2015 time frame when I still had some guys signed to rookie salaries, and not all of my initial stars wanted big salaries yet. I can tell you that I ran into cap hell somewhere along the way to five Front Office Bowl titles in that career and was forced to eschew the draft for a few years due to not being able to afford to sign any more players. I can tell you that to get out of cap hell, I had to trade away my stud QB (I do remember his name, by the way :p) and in the same season my best receiver got a long-term injury, the combination of those two things effectively ending my chances for a playoff spot for a few years. I can tell you that the fun of managing my franchise through those five titles and now through the troubles of cap hell has been incredibly enjoyable for me...

...but I can't tell you who we beat in any of those five championship wins, whether it was a close game or not, and which players were standouts in any of them. That's just not the way I enjoy playing. So no, for me, the actual games are not what "should" be the corner stone of a sports sim.

[Coder]

I don't need to qoute SD on that one, but you've captured the essence of my favorite part of playing text sims. I love watching how dynasties unfold and disappear, how players go from rookies to hall of famers etc.. FOF/OOTP make this an easier process to follow due to the speed of which you can sim through the seasons.

In FM, I'm not getting the exact experience I long for (see above paragraph), but I get to know individual players, watch what makes them exceptional (or piss-poor), see them battle injuries etc.. but the speed takes away the thing I'd like to see the most, and that's to watch things unfold on a bigger scope.

However, I consider FM the better PRODUCT of the two, simply because of the immersion factor. What some people are saying with regards to FBCB (the, "just one more turn"-feeling), is certainly true for FM.

Basically, preferring one play-style over another doesn't mean I can't recognize the superb craftsmanship that FM really is. :)

[MizzouRah]

Too hard for me to vote right now. TCB is getting all of my playing time right now, but I still love FOF 2004, TPB 2005, and BBCF.

[Anthony]

Or because some people can't get into a soccer sim.

ding ding ding. i just don't like soccer. but FM is a beast of a game. FOF is tops for me.

[Anthony]

I'm much more interested in adding the types of features FM has.


this is why i don't ever totally abandon you. this is good news to hear. all you need to do is implement some of the things FM has and you *will*, not "might", but *will* have the greatest text sim game of the entire Milky Way.

in FM's defense, it creates such an in-depth, immersive world, which is why i've purchased it several times in the past. i really feel like i'm dealing with several different types of personalities. such a huge game. just don't like soccer. i never feel like the changes and tweaks i make have a result on the field (because i don't know much about the sport so it's hard for me to see the correlation between making a decision and the result). i know exactly what i'm doing in FOF, and have a better handle of how to get my team to do the things i want it to do.

i'd still prefer gameplan templates, rather than telling my team what to do in every conceivable scenario, but that's being nitpicky. :cool:

[MIJB#19]

My personal favorite is FOF 2004, mainly due to the multiplayer aspect, though. Being in the IHOF is a great gaming experience (Of course, we have a great group of diverse owners there combined with an awesome commish, it certainly adds to the enjoyment). Also, should I want single-player fun, I know this game can provide that. More than the CM games I have. I'm born and raised in a soccer/skating country, but just never got deeper into a CM game than one full season, expect in international manager mode. I like FOF a lot more. Season can fly by, if I want to. I think I'd even go over to the evil side if there'd be a baseball game based on the FOF design.

[BuffaloHuskey]

Never played FM (not interested in a soccer sim) so I voted for TCB. Although I have played FOF since inception, I really enjoy recruiting rather than signing free agents and drafting. i like the limited amount of time you have with players. I like the depth of the game and the interface. It is not hard on the eyes like FOF can be. I think that I am swayed towards this game as I am a much bigger college hoops fan than I am an NFL fan.

[gkb]

I voted for FM. I first started playing that line of text sims with the CM 03/04 version. I've never played soccer or watched soccer and had no interest in the whatsoever. I read one of QuikSand's dynasties and bought it anyway. Now I'm watching Premiership matches on FSC and really enjoying it despite still not understanding half of what I'm seeing.

However, I never would have purchased CM/FM (or even FBCB, TCY, or OOTP if it wasn't for the first FOF game...I played the hell out of that game and it really got me into the text based sims).

[Bee]

Looking at the votes, I think HeavyReign should be very proud of FBCB. Not only is his game 3rd in the voting, but it was a first generation version and came out a couple years ago.

[Klinglerware]

Looking at the votes, I think HeavyReign should be very proud of FBCB. Not only is his game 3rd in the voting, but it was a first generation version and came out a couple years ago.

Agreed. He also developed and supported this game while holding another full-time job, did he not?

[Godzilla Blitz]

I voted FM 2006. I've recently gotten back into the series and am absolutely hooked. The sim breathes depth and complexity.

Three main reasons:
1. Player personalities and media interaction give your players life.
2. Extensive player search filters take the tedium out of recruiting!!!
3. World simulation with oodles of leagues and teams.

FBCB runs a close second though.

I have yet to give FOF4 a serious test, although I have greatly enjoyed the series on the whole.

One major reason why I like FBCB and FM so much is that there is no "sticking point" in the progression of a season where I feel like I should or have to do some repetitious task. Everything is fun. Nothing is drudgery.

[Groundhog]

...snipped SkyDog talking about how he can't name any of his QBs or teams he's beaten in superbowls with his FOF teams...

Interesting really how differently people approach the same games. I bought FOF around 2 years ago and it got a good deal of play out of me, but I haven't touched it in maybe 6 months. I think the big killer for me is that I like to get totally immersed in my universe, yet I find this difficult with the massive rosters that are needed for American football. I did enjoyed this sim for a number of months though.

FBCB on the other hand I follow my teams and universe VERY closely (maybe too closely... :) ) and I could name off the top of my head every starter I've had over the 7 seasons I've controlled my current Northwestern St team. Where as others, such as yourself, can just quicksim and look at the big picture.

Where besides textsims can you get this sort of versatility?

[Mac Howard]

The disagreement between those supporting FOF and those FM perhaps comes about because of the flaw in calling games "text sims" and thereforre assuming they're the same genre. FOF is more of a stats analysis/manipulation game while FM is a role playing game. There is clearly an overlap but I don't think they should be included in the same category simply because they don't depend on graphics (though FM is becoming more dependant with each release).

It's interesting that Jim mentions that he would like to introduce FM style features into FOF. I've always thought that the stats game has a limited audience - it appeals to a particular, but unsual, mental approach to sports - while the role playing game has a much wider appeal.

[MizzouRah]

For me now, TCB gets the vote. Since my last post, I've played the heck out of this one.

[ice4277]

Interesting really how differently people approach the same games. I bought FOF around 2 years ago and it got a good deal of play out of me, but I haven't touched it in maybe 6 months. I think the big killer for me is that I like to get totally immersed in my universe, yet I find this difficult with the massive rosters that are needed for American football. I did enjoyed this sim for a number of months though.

FBCB on the other hand I follow my teams and universe VERY closely (maybe too closely... :) ) and I could name off the top of my head every starter I've had over the 7 seasons I've controlled my current Northwestern St team. Where as others, such as yourself, can just quicksim and look at the big picture.

Where besides textsims can you get this sort of versatility?
This is pretty much my view on it as well. I want to feel like I am actually there with the team. I love to get to know my players and feel an attachment to them on a level greater than knowing their attribute numbers. This is a big part of the reason I love FM. I feel like I am really part of the game and have an effect on what the players accomplish for the team.

[Buccaneer]

I have a question for FM fans. Would you consider the game to be a "hard-core" football/soccer sim or are there other products better fitting that description?

[TroyF]

I voted for FM2006. The FM series as a whole did something I never thought possible, it made me a fan of a sport I cared NOTHING about.

If nothing is on TV, I'll flip on a soccer game so I can see the guy I just signed in FM actually play.

I love the new college hoops game and I really enjoy a few of the college games on that list, but the thing that drives a text sim for me is the dynasty factor. I love drafting a rookie, watching him develop into a star and retire into the sunset after a hall of fame career.

I hate a college game where I recruit a great player and he may be gone in a year or two. I'll play TCB to death, but I'll play the pro version of the same game with more vigor and enthusiasm.

As for what Jim wrote above, I'm drooling. College or Pro, just get that sucker out. FOF with even a hint of FM type role playing capabilities? Ummm. . . wow, just wow.

[ice4277]

I have a question for FM fans. Would you consider the game to be a "hard-core" football/soccer sim or are there other products better fitting that description?
I definitely would consider it hard-core. It is an EXTREMELY deep, game, which is one of the reasons it makes you feel so involved. If you aren't familiar with the sport, I could understand how it may feel a little daunting.

[biological warrior]

I dont know if its possible but when starting off a league there should be an option of creating fake stats and a league history. It just adds realism.

[Groundhog]

This is pretty much my view on it as well. I want to feel like I am actually there with the team. I love to get to know my players and feel an attachment to them on a level greater than knowing their attribute numbers. This is a big part of the reason I love FM. I feel like I am really part of the game and have an effect on what the players accomplish for the team.

A friend of mine showed me FM (not sure which version) at around this time last year, and I was blown away... this was even before he pulled up the live 2D display of the game being played. I can tell that FM is a great sim but I sadly don't know enough about soccer or the teams to really get in to it like I wish I could, though I'm sure I will give it another shot.

A fear of mine is that someone will eventually make a basketball sim with as much depth... I don't think I would ever be able to stop playing it. Especially if it combined college/pro/foreign leagues all in one... <creams jeans>

[Groundhog]

I dont know if its possible but when starting off a league there should be an option of creating fake stats and a league history. It just adds realism.

YES! This is what I LOVED about FBCB. Even though you couldn't get it to generate fake stats, I just auto-simmed 60-odd years of history before taking over a team. That you can't do this in all sims is a real shame.

[DaddyTorgo]

WOW. let me echo what others have said above. FOF level statistical modeling with even a HINT of FM-style personalities/interaction/immersion would mean I'd never leave my computer. WOW

[Bee]

I have a question for FM fans. Would you consider the game to be a "hard-core" football/soccer sim or are there other products better fitting that description?

I think it depends on what the player wants to do. I'm not hardcore, so there's a lot of things I let the computer AI handle. I run the default 4-4-2 tactic. I let the computer recommend my training regiments and schedule "friendly" matches. I seldom even search for players, just look over players my scouts recommend. Of course, there are plenty of players that do all those things and more. I think the game does a really good job of letting you control how much you want to be involved.

[Buccaneer]

I think it depends on what the player wants to do. I'm not hardcore, so there's a lot of things I let the computer AI handle. I run the default 4-4-2 tactic. I let the computer recommend my training regiments and schedule "friendly" matches. I seldom even search for players, just look over players my scouts recommend. Of course, there are plenty of players that do all those things and more. I think the game does a really good job of letting you control how much you want to be involved.
Jim: I think this may be part of your answer. Making FOF more FM-like does not mean adding in "role-playing" stuff (even though many would see that as a bonus) but you have specifically stated that you were after the "hard-core" football market. To play your game, you have to play hard-core because that ensures a better chance at success; and that means to do the stuff on all of those screens that some hate. Sure we can go with Recommend but that's not a good idea. There are those that are casually soccer fans as well as decidely non-soccer fans enjoying the hell out of FM, I don't perceive that being the case for FOF (because it does the hard-core stuff extremely well). It's not because they can alter tactics on a pitch midway through the last period but (from what I've read) they feel like a GM. That's an exciting role to be in and FM appears to play that just as well as the hard-core stuff.

How's that for bringing up a 5-yr old argument? :)

[AlexB]

I don't need to qoute SD on that one, but you've captured the essence of my favorite part of playing text sims. I love watching how dynasties unfold and disappear, how players go from rookies to hall of famers etc.. FOF/OOTP make this an easier process to follow due to the speed of which you can sim through the seasons.

In FM, I'm not getting the exact experience I long for (see above paragraph), but I get to know individual players, watch what makes them exceptional (or piss-poor), see them battle injuries etc.. but the speed takes away the thing I'd like to see the most, and that's to watch things unfold on a bigger scope.

However, I consider FM the better PRODUCT of the two, simply because of the immersion factor. What some people are saying with regards to FBCB (the, "just one more turn"-feeling), is certainly true for FM.

Basically, preferring one play-style over another doesn't mean I can't recognize the superb craftsmanship that FM really is. :)

Coder's hit the nail on the head for me: soccer is my #1 sport (wait, did I just type 'soccer' :mad: - football).. and football is a definite #2, but well above all others.

But I find myself playing FOF more than FM, simply because of the pace of the game. FM is superb in it's own right, but I just can't get into it - played the hell out of everything from CM2 to CM0304, but neither FM game has done it for me (other than to mean I can't play the old CM games as now they feel they;re missing something!).

FM's depth with the old pace would be ideal, but I know this is impossible, but I couldn't take two or three weeks for a season, so I go back to FOF beacuse I can get through a season in a sesssion, and an off-season in another - can see players and teams develop, if you're rebuilding the down period isn't nearly a month, and new challenges present themselves more often.

In terms of best I can't split them - FM is clearly the bigger, deeper game, but I plain enjoy FOF more.

[astrosfan64]

Coder's hit the nail on the head for me: soccer is my #1 sport (wait, did I just type 'soccer' :mad: - football).. and football is a definite #2, but well above all others.

But I find myself playing FOF more than FM, simply because of the pace of the game. FM is superb in it's own right, but I just can't get into it - played the hell out of everything from CM2 to CM0304, but neither FM game has done it for me (other than to mean I can't play the old CM games as now they feel they;re missing something!).

FM's depth with the old pace would be ideal, but I know this is impossible, but I couldn't take two or three weeks for a season, so I go back to FOF beacuse I can get through a season in a sesssion, and an off-season in another - can see players and teams develop, if you're rebuilding the down period isn't nearly a month, and new challenges present themselves more often.

In terms of best I can't split them - FM is clearly the bigger, deeper game, but I plain enjoy FOF more.

Very fair point.

[AlexB]

moved to FOF suggestion list...

[33sherman]

I voted TCY, but Id also like to throw some love in for Puresim Baseball, which is really coming along nicely.

[path12]

I'm in the camp that plays FOF as a GM only. To me, where FOF shines is in the offseason. In the season itself, I just sim all the games while pausing every 5 weeks or so to see how my team stacks up in the stats, etc -- but I do like to set the depth chart. That's where it bogs down for me during the season -- having to change around the depth charts to the way I want them after injuries etc because for some reason I'm usually not happy with the way the AI does it.....it just seems like that should be the coach's job.

But man, the offseason with the draft and free agency and revamping the staff -- I spend hours on that and love every second.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm in the camp that plays FOF as a GM only. To me, where FOF shines is in the offseason. In the season itself, I just sim all the games while pausing every 5 weeks or so to see how my team stacks up in the stats, etc -- but I do like to set the depth chart. That's where it bogs down for me during the season -- having to change around the depth charts to the way I want them after injuries etc because for some reason I'm usually not happy with the way the AI does it.....it just seems like that should be the coach's job.

But man, the offseason with the draft and free agency and revamping the staff -- I spend hours on that and love every second.
what he said

[WSUCougar]

I voted FM, with an honorable mention to FOF2004 and a keep-your-eyes-on-TCB sidebar. I think TCB, honed a bit more, has the potential to seriously threaten the top echelon.

[Cotton]

I LOVE FOF and haven't yet tried FM. I'm an (American) football freak, but I like watching the World Cup, and played some soccer in junior high school. (I sucked at it and went back to playing fullback in shoulder pads instead of chin guards when I went to high school.) I'll try FM soon.

As for FOF, I like being able to play a few games on the sideline, calling the plays myself, to get a feel for the team, then letting the Sim Coach take it after preseason. They punt too much in the opponent's territory, but I've since forgiven them for that and aside from cranking the Go-For-It level a tad, I let it go. I like that it gives you that option.

Jim, if you're still around, a multi-player version of TCY would be incredible. Simply because of the league possibilities. You could have some very massive leagues out there. I'd join in a heartbeat.

The biggest thing that I'd suggest for FOF, aside from being able to change the size of the leagues and conferences, fewer modal dialogues, and more game-plan/depth charting for all special teams, is some kind of server-platform, web-based version for multi-player use. I'd love to build it myself if I wasn't buried in my own coding projects.

[Cotton]

Oh... and how come there are no Christophers in FOF?