I'm so angry right now

[Eaglesfan27]

Psychiatry has often been viewed as a lower discipline by many physicians and non-physicians. I'll never forget my mom saying in her own ignorance, "You aren't going to be a doctor after all?" after I announced my decision to pursue psychiatry as my speciality after the end of my 3rd year of medical school. I knew there was a stigma, and I chose to pursue the field anyway. I did so for a large variety of reasons including I find it very enjoyable, I have a few family members with mental illness, I have a father with a severe personality disorder, etc.



Well, when I accepted the job of head of psychiatry at Children's Hospital, I knew I was walking into a hostile environment. They have NEVER been fond of psychiatry to my knowledge. However, I thought I would overcome that with good service, personable interactions, etc. Today, I was called by the secretary of the Chief Medical Officer. She informed me that "after Katrina, we've had a great influx of requests for offices. Psychiatry has never generated as much income as other specialities, and you really don't need an office to answer consults. Therefore, you must vacate your office by tomorrow." She then tried to soften the blow by saying she appreciates the services I provide and wants me to continue to do consults.

I'm so pissed off now :mad:

[Crapshoot]

Shit - I'm sorry man, I hope things work out. I know you mentioned you had other opportunities before you picked this one - perhaps some of those are still available ?

[Bee]

That sucks. I would have thought psychiatry would need an office for consultations as much if not more than other disciplines. Where are you supposed to do your consults?

[Eaglesfan27]

Shit - I'm sorry man, I hope things work out. I know you mentioned you had other opportunities before you picked this one - perhaps some of those are still available ?
I didn't lose my job or anything. I'm still the Chief of Psychiatry over there. This is just a huge slap in the face. This is just one more factor pushing me into possibly taking another job (however, that would be out of the New Orleans area which Mrs. Eaglesfan doesn't want.)

But, yes, I still have several other options including one that would be much more lucrative (but in New Jersey which Mrs. Eaglesfan definitely does not want to move to.)

[Eaglesfan27]

That sucks. I would have thought psychiatry would need an office for consultations as much if not more than other disciplines. Where are you supposed to do your consults?
At the bedside which is not unreasonable since the patients often are medically sick and don't want/need to be moved far. However, it is unreasonable to expect me to teach my residents on the wards. Psychiatry teaching should be done in a private office space.

[astrosfan64]

At the bedside which is not unreasonable since the patients often are medically sick and don't want/need to be moved far. However, it is unreasonable to expect me to teach my residents on the wards. Psychiatry teaching should be done in a private office space.

South Jersey is real nice. I grew up there, not sure why you wouldn't want to move out there. North Jersey does suck though.

[Crapshoot]

I didn't lose my job or anything. I'm still the Chief of Psychiatry over there. This is just a huge slap in the face. This is just one more factor pushing me into possibly taking another job (however, that would be out of the New Orleans area which Mrs. Eaglesfan doesn't want.)

But, yes, I still have several other options including one that would be much more lucrative (but in New Jersey which Mrs. Eaglesfan definitely does not want to move to.)

Aha, my misunderstanding - I thought the clearing out your office bit meant you had lost it. Basically, they don't think Psych consults will be a worthwhile revenue generator ?

[BrianD]

Psychiatry has always gotten short shrift being called a "soft science". I think that is a short-sighted attitude, but it is a pretty common one. You would think that something like Katrina would open some eyes to how important psychiatry really is. Sadly making money seems to always come before proper patient care.

[Eaglesfan27]

South Jersey is real nice. I grew up there, not sure why you wouldn't want to move out there. North Jersey does suck though.

I'm from South Jersey. I lived there for 18 years. If I wasn't married, I would take that job in a heartbeat. I'd love to go back to New Jersey. However, my wife spent 3 years in New Jersey, and she hated it. It snowed too much (it was the winter of 99-00 where we got quite a few big storms), it rained too much, she didn't make a lot of friends up there, she thought the air was too dry, etc etc. If it wouldn't make my wife miserable again, I'd definitely take that job.

[Eaglesfan27]

Aha, my misunderstanding - I thought the clearing out your office bit meant you had lost it. Basically, they don't think Psych consults will be a worthwhile revenue generator ?
They charge the insurance companies money for my consults, believe me. They get down my throat if I don't have my billing sheets done by the end of each week. They just don't think I need an office to make them money.

[Eaglesfan27]

Dola -

I'm really pissed that they called and ruined my day off. I believe this is the first day I took off from there outside of the holidays (where I'm guaranteed days off), but they had to call today.

[tarcone]

if your a psychiatrist, can't you bend your wifes mind to love south jersey?

[astrosfan64]

I'm from South Jersey. I lived there for 18 years. If I wasn't married, I would take that job in a heartbeat. I'd love to go back to New Jersey. However, my wife spent 3 years in New Jersey, and she hated it. It snowed too much (it was the winter of 99-00 where we got quite a few big storms), it rained too much, she didn't make a lot of friends up there, she thought the air was too dry, etc etc. If it wouldn't make my wife miserable again, I'd definitely take that job.

I understand. I live in Houston, TX now and I would move back to NJ in a heartbeat. My wife is from Houston and she felt the same way about NJ as yours did when we lived there for four years. Where do you live now?

I thought that Physch doctors were pretty highly regarded in the North East?

[albionmoonlight]

Sorry that they are giving you the shaft. That sucks.

[Eaglesfan27]

I understand. I live in Houston, TX now and I would move back to NJ in a heartbeat. My wife is from Houston and she felt the same way about NJ as yours did when we lived there for four years. Where do you live now?

I thought that Physch doctors were pretty highly regarded in the North East?
I think we are more highly regarded in the NE than the South, but that is just my gut feeling. I live in New Orleans. I've lived in New Orleans (or the suburbs such as Metairie) for the last 5 1/2 years.

[astrosfan64]

I think we are more highly regarded in the NE than the South, but that is just my gut feeling. I live in New Orleans. I've lived in New Orleans (or the suburbs such as Metairie) for the last 5 1/2 years.


Yeah, I would say without a doubt the North East and West Coast are probably the places for you to be. The south is ummm a bit behind the times when it comes progressive thinking.

[FrogMan]

dang doc, not much more to add than that sucks. Not being appreciated, or not being appreciated to your fullest, by your employer is one of the roughest thing.

I'm sure you'll still do a great job and all, but that's gotta hurt your commitment to the place, as was demonstrated by your interest in other jobs. Good luck with this!

FM

[MizzouRah]

That flat out sucks, EF. Hey lady, thanks for ruining my day off.. goodbye!

[WSUCougar]

Sorry to hear it, Doc. You have my respect, for what it's worth.

[Eaglesfan27]

Yeah, I would say without a doubt the North East and West Coast are probably the places for you to be. The south is ummm a bit behind the times when it comes progressive thinking.
Speaking of which, my predecessor (sp? that is always a hard one for me) left after Katrina to go to a similar job at a big hospital in Washington, DC. He later told me that he was contemplating the move even before Katrina, because of battles with the administration.


Thanks guy for the kind words. I'm going to find something to do to cool off for a while.

[Butter]

Hey, EF, just tell your wife that at least in Jersey someone else would pump your gas.

[Raiders Army]

She informed me that "after Katrina, we've had a great influx of requests for offices. Psychiatry has never generated as much income as other specialities, and you really don't need an office to answer consults. Therefore, you must vacate your office by tomorrow."
It's horrible to think that because your office doesn't generate as much money as other specialities, you lose your office space. And you're the chief of Psychiatry??? Wow. That is a pretty shitty situation.

How many offices did your staff have? I could see letting some offices go, but the Department Head's office? That is insane.

[Drake]

You could always go on a shooting spree. That would prove to them how important it is to have good psychiatric help in the hospital.

[sabotai]

I'm from South Jersey. I lived there for 18 years. If I wasn't married, I would take that job in a heartbeat. I'd love to go back to New Jersey. However, my wife spent 3 years in New Jersey, and she hated it. It snowed too much (it was the winter of 99-00 where we got quite a few big storms), it rained too much, she didn't make a lot of friends up there, she thought the air was too dry, etc etc. If it wouldn't make my wife miserable again, I'd definitely take that job.....too DRY?

:D

[Eaglesfan27]

....too DRY?

:D

Yes, too dry! Spend a few months down here, and you'll realize NJ really isn't that humid. However, I certainly wouldn't characterize it as too dry :)

As far as my staff. My secretary was let go. I now share a secretary with 7 (!) other doctors. The other 2 attendings are still on staff, but they just provide weekend coverage so I don't have to be the staff 24 hours/day, 7 days/week. I still have two residents working under my direction any month.

[Eaglesfan27]

It's horrible to think that because your office doesn't generate as much money as other specialities, you lose your office space. And you're the chief of Psychiatry??? Wow. That is a pretty shitty situation.

How many offices did your staff have? I could see letting some offices go, but the Department Head's office? That is insane.

Just to clarify, the other 2 attendings didn't even have offices there. They just provided night and weekend coverage. Now, there are no psychiatry offices in the hospital, and therefore I have NO place to see outpatients. The LSU building is still several months from being repaired which is where I had my other outpatient office. The only outpatients I can see now are at the clinics (which are only state clinic outpatients.)

[Eaglesfan27]

Sorry to hear it, Doc. You have my respect, for what it's worth.
Thanks. That means a lot :)


Thanks to everyone else for the jokes or words of support to cheer me up. I'm just simmering now.

[DaddyTorgo]

sounds like with the post-katrina slowness down there that there just isn't that much of a focus on psychiatry down there in the Big Easy EF. Perhaps partially as a result of the fact that the area is taking a while to bounceback on top of the general reluctance of the hospital to take the profession seriously. Not that I'm sure you havn't already, but I'd polish the resume up and talk to Mrs. EF and see what your other options are, because that just doesn't sound like a good, thriving situation.

edit: and i think i've mentioned that my cousin's roomie's father is the COO at Charity right? and let's see...what other doctors do i know...if there's anything I can do for you that your connections can't (interested in a move to Wisconsin? Or maybe Minnesota? LOL) of course reach out.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yes, too dry! Spend a few months down here, and you'll realize NJ really isn't that humid. However, I certainly wouldn't characterize it as too dry :)

http://www.city-data.com/city/Newark-New-Jersey.html
http://pics.city-data.com/w2/hum13901.png

http://www.city-data.com/city/New-Orleans-Louisiana.html
http://pics.city-data.com/w2/hum9246.png

Having now looked at the difference in average humidity for NJ & LA, and considering that your wife thinks Jersey is "too dry", I believe I have a suggestion: Have you considered checking employment opportunities in a climate more to her liking ... such as Atlantis?

[Eaglesfan27]

sounds like with the post-katrina slowness down there that there just isn't that much of a focus on psychiatry down there in the Big Easy EF. Perhaps partially as a result of the fact that the area is taking a while to bounceback on top of the general reluctance of the hospital to take the profession seriously. Not that I'm sure you havn't already, but I'd polish the resume up and talk to Mrs. EF and see what your other options are, because that just doesn't sound like a good, thriving situation.

I've already interviewed at a few other places. I'm waiting for a formal offer, but I think this is going to be the final straw. If I get a good official offer from somewhere else in the state, we'll be moving. At least that will keep Mrs. Eaglesfan happy to still be in the state.

[Eaglesfan27]

http://www.city-data.com/city/Newark-New-Jersey.html
http://pics.city-data.com/w2/hum13901.png

http://www.city-data.com/city/New-Orleans-Louisiana.html
http://pics.city-data.com/w2/hum9246.png

Having now looked at the difference in average humidity for NJ & LA, and considering that your wife thinks Jersey is "too dry", I believe I have a suggestion: Have you considered checking employment opportunities in a climate more to her liking ... such as Atlantis?

I've shown her the data. She swears NJ is "too dry."

[DaddyTorgo]

I've already interviewed at a few other places. I'm waiting for a formal offer, but I think this is going to be the final straw. If I get a good official offer from somewhere else in the state, we'll be moving. At least that will keep Mrs. Eaglesfan happy to still be in the state.i edited this into my post, but y'all were moving real fast so here

edit: and i think i've mentioned that my cousin's roomie's father is the COO at Charity right? and let's see...what other doctors do i know...if there's anything I can do for you that your connections can't (interested in a move to Wisconsin? Or maybe Minnesota? LOL) of course reach out.

[Eaglesfan27]

To be fair, the humidity in New Orleans is about 20% higher at any time on average than NJ. However, I think it is a good thing that NJ's humidity is lower.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I've shown her the data. She swears NJ is "too dry."

I believe that's what we call "excusifying" ;)

[Eaglesfan27]

i edited this into my post, but y'all were moving real fast so here

edit: and i think i've mentioned that my cousin's roomie's father is the COO at Charity right? and let's see...what other doctors do i know...if there's anything I can do for you that your connections can't (interested in a move to Wisconsin? Or maybe Minnesota? LOL) of course reach out.

Thanks for the offer, but I think Minnesota and Wisconsin might have a bit too much snow for her ;)

Charity as I'm sure you know has its own problems right now.

[Eaglesfan27]

I believe that's what we call "excusifying" ;)

Probably ;) Ultimately, I think she just doesn't like NJ because it is very different from New Orleans. I think many people strive to return to their hometowns or place that remind them of their home town.

[Gallifrey]

My wife if finally beginning to believe that Seattle is too wet.

[Buccaneer]

I know of a good way to cool off (it has to with a certain one-hander sword). :)

Hang in there, my friend. Let the doors open for you.

[Eaglesfan27]

I know of a good way to cool off (it has to with a certain one-hander sword). :)

Hang in there, my friend. Let the doors open for you.

I ended up playing Gothic 2 Gold for about 2 hours today :)

[CamEdwards]

I know of a good way to cool off (it has to with a certain one-hander sword). :)

Hang in there, my friend. Let the doors open for you.

I swear to God I thought Bucc was propositioning you, EF.

I'm still cracking up at the New Jersey being too dry comment as well. I've been to both New Orleans and New Jersey, and they're both pretty damn humid.

Chin up, and if you really want an office, you can have mine. I always end up just sitting in the studio all day and never use it. Of course, you'd have to come to Alexandria, VA to do your outpatient visits...

[Eaglesfan27]

I swear to God I thought Bucc was propositioning you, EF.



Thanks for a hearty laugh :D

[Eaglesfan27]

I just got an email from one of my contacts in another part of the state. She told me that she thinks they are getting "very close" to making me a formal offer! :)

[DaddyTorgo]

well...preliminary congrats on that EF. hopefully they are planning on offering you an actual physical office!

[Craptacular]

Thanks for the offer, but I think Minnesota and Wisconsin might have a bit too much snow for her ;)

I've got green grass in front of my house right now ... I wish we had snow.

[Dutch]

I would help if I could but my pychiatrist took all my super powers away.

[Eaglesfan27]

I would help if I could but my pychiatrist took all my super powers away.
:D

[General Mike]

Sorry Eaglesfan27. I love NJ and there is no way its too dry. Too cold, maybe but not too dry. Maybe you can relocate to Seattle.

[Eaglesfan27]

Sorry Eaglesfan27. I love NJ and there is no way its too dry. Too cold, maybe but not too dry. Maybe you can relocate to Seattle.
I definitely agree. Like others have said, I think anyplace would be too dry (as in humidity) compared to New Orleans just because she doesn't want to leave the area. :(

[Eaglesfan27]

Dola -

To be fair, when we first started dating, she told me that she was going to want to live in the New Orleans area if it ever got serious (which almost scared me off!)

We met in California while I was a senior at USC.

[Craptacular]

Serious question: would another Katrina be enough to make her want to leave?

[SFL Cat]

You left California for Louisiana? It MUST be love.

[Eaglesfan27]

Serious question: would another Katrina be enough to make her want to leave?
I don't know, but most of the places that we are strongly considering moving to would at least be somewhat protected from a Katrina-like storm. For example, one place that we are looking at buying a house/working is about 55 feet above sea level and 40-50 miles inland. The other is several hundred feet above sealevel and is much further inland. I think either place would be relatively safe, however, I guess the one place might suffer some severe wind damage if a storm came directly from the coast since it is only 40-50 miles inland.

[Eaglesfan27]

You left California for Louisiana? It MUST be love.
I never planned on staying in California. I went to USC strictly for the scholarship. I enjoyed California, but before I met her, I planned on returning to Southern New Jersey.


Edit: However, I did have a great time in California. If it wasn't for the Northridge quake in 94 which shook our apartment up pretty good I might have considered staying in California.

[JPhillips]

My wife assures me she can help although her therapist tells her she isn't a cosmic VIP.




A little OCD humor.

[terpkristin]

Hmmm.
I somehow only just found this thread.

Sorry to hear about them taking away your office, and the general lack of respect you seem to be getting. I can sympathize with that, though in a vastly different field. But it sounds like things might be looking up on other fronts, so cool, and I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!!! :)

/tk

[Benjamin Dover]

Psychiatry has often been viewed as a lower discipline by many physicians and non-physicians. I'll never forget my mom saying in her own ignorance, "You aren't going to be a doctor after all?" after I announced my decision to pursue psychiatry as my speciality after the end of my 3rd year of medical school. I knew there was a stigma, and I chose to pursue the field anyway.
If memory serves, when Jung made the decision to pursue psychiatry his teacher in internal medicine as well as his medical school friends all rejected him. This opened an old wound, the feeling of being an outsider. Now some 100+ year later, you face similar attitudes of ignorance from family and medical colleagues. Whenever I encounter adversity, I remember Lao Tzu's secrets of getting things done which essentially is to become a part of processes in motion rather than to work against processes:

Act without acting on.
Work without working at.

Enter bountifulness when it is still insufficiency.

Answer with kindness when faced with hostility.

Begin a difficult task in its easy stage
because large problems grow from small ones.

Begin a large task in its formative state
because complex issues originate from simple ones.

But beware of those who promise quick and easy solutions!
Accept problems as challenges.

In this way the sage accomplishes great tasks
without ever having to struggle with them.

Perhaps this encounter is a test of sorts--one which cannot be passed with the use of force or the quick and easy solution of leaving.

[Eaglesfan27]

If memory serves, when Jung made the decision to pursue psychiatry his teacher in internal medicine as well as his medical school friends all rejected him. This opened an old wound, the feeling of being an outsider. Now some 100+ year later, you face similar attitudes of ignorance from family and medical colleagues. Whenever I encounter adversity, I remember Lao Tzu's secrets of getting things done which essentially is to become a part of processes in motion rather than to work against processes:

Act without acting on.
Work without working at.

Enter bountifulness when it is still insufficiency.

Answer with kindness when faced with hostility.

Begin a difficult task in its easy stage
because large problems grow from small ones.

Begin a large task in its formative state
because complex issues originate from simple ones.

But beware of those who promise quick and easy solutions!
Accept problems as challenges.

In this way the sage accomplishes great tasks
without ever having to struggle with them.

Perhaps this encounter is a test of sorts--one which cannot be passed with the use of force or the quick and easy solution of leaving.
Very interesting post. Thank you.

[JPhillips]

Who would expect such wisdom from BenDover?

[Eaglesfan27]

I just had another blow professionally today. I can't really discuss too many details, but ultimately, it comes from state budgetary problems. I really enjoy teaching, but this experience is souring me on academics. It is looking almost inevitable that I'm going to have to at least leave the New Orleans area which makes me sad. I'm also rather angry about the way some things are being handled now. I know I'm not giving many details, but sometimes just putting some thoughts down can help blow off some steam.

[Buzzbee]

Sorry to hear it EF27. I learned from living in NOLA for 6 months that many who are native to NO simply aren't comfortable anywhere else, mainly because NO is so different from any other place. Therefore, I can understand your wife's feelings.

I know it isn't New Orleans, but perhaps Atlanta might be a suitable alternative. With her being a chef, I imagine there are numerous opportunities for her, as Atlanta is certainly a city with a wide variety and large number of restaurants. While the winters certainly aren't quite like New Orleans, the summers probably aren't too far removed.

Also, with all the troubles that come with being a teenager in suburbia, seems like there would probably be some plentiful pickins for you as well.

Good luck no matter where the stream of life takes you.

[Eaglesfan27]

She actually has family in Atlanta, so it might be a good choice. However, the market is actually one of the few areas that is saturated with child psychiatrists. There is a dire need nationwide, but Atlanta has one of the very best Child Psychiatrist/Patient ratios in the nation.


Sorry to hear it EF27. I learned from living in NOLA for 6 months that many who are native to NO simply aren't comfortable anywhere else, mainly because NO is so different from any other place. Therefore, I can understand your wife's feelings.

I know it isn't New Orleans, but perhaps Atlanta might be a suitable alternative. With her being a chef, I imagine there are numerous opportunities for her, as Atlanta is certainly a city with a wide variety and large number of restaurants. While the winters certainly aren't quite like New Orleans, the summers probably aren't too far removed.

Also, with all the troubles that come with being a teenager in suburbia, seems like there would probably be some plentiful pickins for you as well.

Good luck no matter where the stream of life takes you.

[Buzzbee]

She actually has family in Atlanta, so it might be a good choice. However, the market is actually one of the few areas that is saturated with child psychiatrists. There is a dire need nationwide, but Atlanta has one of the very best Child Psychiatrist/Patient ratios in the nation.
Not sure if I'm happy about that or not. :confused:


I have no idea if Children's Healthcare of Atlanta does any psychiatric work or not, but if they don't perhaps you can convince them that they should!!!

[GrantDawg]

She actually has family in Atlanta, so it might be a good choice. However, the market is actually one of the few areas that is saturated with child psychiatrists. There is a dire need nationwide, but Atlanta has one of the very best Child Psychiatrist/Patient ratios in the nation.
There is a member of the church here who is a child psychiatrist. I could always ask her about contacts if you're interested.

[GrantDawg]

dola: There is also one who is a muckety-muck in the CDC if you have any interest in that.

[Eaglesfan27]

Thanks Grantdawg, I appreciate it. I'll let you know if we decide to pursue that :)

[albionmoonlight]

I don't know anyone here who could help you, but I can say that the Raleigh-Durham area is a nice place to live. It's not New Orleans, but no place really is.

Actually, if you moved here and your wife opened a cajun resturant, I would be your best friend for life.