POL - I smell smoke!!

[Flasch186]

Theres going to be another fire, along the same lines as the, "I broke the law...but I'm above the law" kind. Jeez, arent we all shocked by this admin's disregard for law, by now...Its unbelieveable this admin's. feelings of impunity. It disgusts me.



Cheney says he has power to declassify information
Vice president stays mum on case involving aide Libby

Thursday, February 16, 2006; Posted: 6:21 a.m. EST (11:21 GMT)


WASHINGTON (AP) -- Vice President Dick Cheney said Wednesday that an executive order gives him the authority to declassify secret documents, but he would not say whether he authorized an indicted former aide to release classified information.

Cheney's former chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, told a grand jury he was "authorized by his superiors" to disclose classified information from an intelligence estimate on Iraq to reporters, the special prosecutor investigating the 2003 leak of a CIA agent's identity told Libby's attorneys. The prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, did not identify who those "superiors" are.

In an interview Wednesday with Fox News, Cheney said the case was "nothing I can talk about." But he said he had the authority to declassify material under an executive order that "focuses first and foremost on the president, but also includes the vice president."

He would not disclose whether he had exercised that authority, however.

Libby was indicted in October on charges of perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements to investigators probing the July 2003 exposure of CIA agent Valerie Plame. Plame's husband, former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson, had just emerged as a critic of the pre-war intelligence underpinning the invasion of Iraq when her identity was disclosed.

According to Fitzgerald, Libby met on July 8, 2003, with New York Times reporter Judith Miller to give her information regarding the U.S. National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq. The document included much of the information used to justify the invasion of Iraq earlier that year.

But a legal source involved in the case tells CNN that Libby has never suggested and did not testify that anyone in the administration -- including Cheney -- authorized outing Plame.

Cheney declined to discuss the investigation but said he had "cooperated fully" with the special prosecutor. And he suggested he may have to testify in Libby's trial, now tentatively set for January 2007.

"Scooter is entitled to the presumption of innocence," the vice president said. "He's a great guy. I've worked with him for a long time, have enormous regard for him. I may well be called as a witness at some point in the case and it's, therefore, inappropriate for me to comment on any facet of the case."

Cheney's remarks came during an interview in which he accepted responsibility for the weekend shooting of a companion during a south Texas quail hunt. (Full story)

The wounded man, 78-year-old Harry Whittington, remained in intensive care in a Corpus Christi hospital on Wednesday.

The incident's belated disclosure left the White House fending off questions for three days and fueled renewed criticism of the vice president, with Democrats calling it symbolic of an administration obsessed with secrecy.

[Dutch]

The incident's belated disclosure left the White House fending off questions for three days and fueled renewed criticism of the vice president, with Democrats calling it symbolic of an administration obsessed with secrecy.

:rolleyes:

[sterlingice]

Glad to see you finding the forest for the trees, as always, Dutch :rolleyes:

"Well, sure, I don't want to comment on the obvious problems here but the 'editorializing' comment, which is actually true and factual- it says the 'Democrats were calling it..." not that it was true, is what I'll take issue with since there's no way I can go after the argument itself."

SI

[CamEdwards]

I could have sworn this thread said POT- I smell smoke!!

[sterlingice]

I could have sworn this thread said POT- I smell smoke!!(I had to do a doubletake too since that's what I first saw :) )

SI

[st.cronin]

I have no idea how that article implies wrongdoing on Cheney's part. Can somebody explain?

[Flasch186]

Libby has stated he was TOLD to release the classified information from his superiors. His superiors can be inferred to be his boss, which would be directly Cheney and/or others. than later Cheney says, I am allowed to declassify info. (which makes it look like he is preparing for it to come out that it was he who told him to release the info. in the first place, since he could deem it declassified.) Very much similar to Gonzalez saying the President didnt need a law to go around FISA since he already was leagally authorized to do so. Scandalous to anyone not partisan, unlike Dutch, the secrecy and ego of this admin.

the implication is clear, the evidence is not in this article, but implication is certainly the framework of the article as a whole.

[lungs]

I could have sworn this thread said POT- I smell smoke!!

sorry, that was me over here.

[st.cronin]

Libby has stated he was TOLD to release the classified information from his superiors. His superiors can be inferred to be his boss, which would be directly Cheney and/or others. than later Cheney says, I am allowed to declassify info. (which makes it look like he is preparing for it to come out that it was he who told him to release the info. in the first place, since he could deem it declassified.) Very much similar to Gonzalez saying the President didnt need a law to go around FISA since he already was leagally authorized to do so. Scandalous to anyone not partisan, unlike Dutch, the secrecy and ego of this admin.

the implication is clear, the evidence is not in this article, but implication is certainly the framework of the article as a whole.

Ah, I see. I wasn't connecting the dots.

[st.cronin]

dola

It is certainly possible that Cheney is empowered to declassify material. I think it's quite likely, actually. But if that's true, then couldn't this entire prosecution have been avoided? There's quite a lot about this that doesn't make sense.

[Flasch186]

dola

It is certainly possible that Cheney is empowered to declassify material. I think it's quite likely, actually. But if that's true, then couldn't this entire prosecution have been avoided? There's quite a lot about this that doesn't make sense.

had he declassified the info (assuming he has that ability solely without consultatio) before the outing then this entire thing may have been avoided. HOWEVER, very similarly to other events recently occurring, to do things in hindsight or make claims in hindsight when the fire is burning is not only counterproductive, not only image destroying, but very likely is untrue to be valid.

[CamEdwards]

but (and correct me if I'm wrong), Libby wasn't indicted for revealing classified information, right? So where's the smoke?

[MrBigglesworth]

dola

It is certainly possible that Cheney is empowered to declassify material. I think it's quite likely, actually. But if that's true, then couldn't this entire prosecution have been avoided? There's quite a lot about this that doesn't make sense.
And then there is also the question of whether a sitting VP should be able to declassify national security info in order to damage a political dissenter.

[cartman]

but (and correct me if I'm wrong), Libby wasn't indicted for revealing classified information, right? So where's the smoke?

Libby was indicted for lying to the grand jury. So why would he lie about something that was supposedly legal for him to do, if in fact the VP can declassify the info? If it was known all along to be legal, then why the cover up? The reason for the cover up seems to be the smoke. If it was legal, then why all of the dancing around the issue? Because maybe there was no reason other than political payback to make the declassification? Otherwise, why not have just disclosed all of this straight away in the beginning, and avoid all of this mess?

[Flasch186]

but (and correct me if I'm wrong), Libby wasn't indicted for revealing classified information, right? So where's the smoke?


BTW I just heard that he cannot declassify things on his own and MUST follow the NSA protocal established to declassigy things. Heard on CNN from a Republican Senator.

[st.cronin]

BTW I just heard that he cannot declassify things on his own and MUST follow the NSA protocal established to declassigy things. Heard on CNN from a Republican Senator.

Speaking as somebody who has been around classified material, that is way too general a statement for a Senator to make, although he may be right about the material in question.

[MrBigglesworth]

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/eoamend.html
3.1(b) It is presumed that information that continues to meet the classification requirements under this order requires continued protection. In some exceptional cases, however, the need to protect such information may be outweighed by the public interest in disclosure of the information, and in these cases the information should be declassified. When such questions arise, they shall be referred to the agency head or the senior agency official. That official will determine, as an exercise of discretion, whether the public interest in disclosure outweighs the damage to the national security that might reasonably be expected from disclosure.
Probably where Cheney claims he has the right to declassify something. However:
4.1(c) Classified information shall remain under the control of the originating agency or its successor in function. An agency shall not disclose information originally classified by another agency without its authorization. An official or employee leaving agency service may not remove classified information from the agency's control.
The CIA is the originating agency of the classification of Plame's name, and I believe that based on their reaction that they did not aurhorize Cheney to leak the information.

[st.cronin]

It does seem like an attempt to find a legal loophole.

[MrBigglesworth]

It does seem like an attempt to find a legal loophole.
If you think that now, wait until I tell you this: previously, only the President had any of these declassification powers, based off of his position as commande-in-cheif as designated by the Constitution. Bush changed that and added the VP on March 25, 2003, whith his amendments to this executive order. What was happening in March of 2003? The administration was actively looking for a way to discredit Wilson. Isn't that convenient.

[st.cronin]

If you think that now, wait until I tell you this: previously, only the President had any of these declassification powers, based off of his position as commande-in-cheif as designated by the Constitution. Bush changed that and added the VP on March 25, 2003, whith his amendments to this executive order. What was happening in March of 2003? The administration was actively looking for a way to discredit Wilson. Isn't that convenient.

hahahahahahahahahaha

You have no idea what you're talking about - I've been around classified documents, and the rules for classifying and declassifying documents and who gets to do what ... go ahead and get your phd in nuclear physics first, it's a much faster and easier process.

[MrBigglesworth]

hahahahahahahahahaha

You have no idea what you're talking about - I've been around classified documents, and the rules for classifying and declassifying documents and who gets to do what ... go ahead and get your phd in nuclear physics first, it's a much faster and easier process.
So you are saying that this link:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/eoamend.html

Is bullshit? Perhaps you don't know what you are talking about in terms of this specific argument.

[Flasch186]

but (and correct me if I'm wrong), Libby wasn't indicted for revealing classified information, right? So where's the smoke?

Lets keep our eye on the prize, so to speak. The indictments did not exclude further indictments on what it is Fitzgerald is investigating BUT the obstruction of justice and perjury came up on the traintrack so it was passed before the expiration and then extension of the grand jury...so the digging on the original topic is still going on. I feel confident Libby released the info but he is going to pass the buck on to those higher than him...my opinion, that last part.

[SFL Cat]

Well, if the impeachment trial involving Clinton's perjury is any indication...Libby should get off relatively easy.

[Glengoyne]

NPR did a piece on this tonight while I was driving home. Bush's executive order amended an order Clinton had issued that, among other things, extended the ability to classify information to the V.P. while he was acting in his role as executive(maybe chief executive...I can't recall specifically) The portion of the order that deals with declassifying the info requires that the department who originally classified the item declassify it or, or someone that supervises that department. So have they inserted the VP into the chain of command?

I don't think the admin's argument holds water, and I don't think this will be their eventual response. Then again I didn't think they released Plame's identity to screw her up at the CIA either... so what do I know.

[MrBigglesworth]

NPR did a piece on this tonight while I was driving home. Bush's executive order amended an order Clinton had issued that, among other things, extended the ability to classify information to the V.P. while he was acting in his role as executive(maybe chief executive...I can't recall specifically) The portion of the order that deals with declassifying the info requires that the department who originally classified the item declassify it or, or someone that supervises that department. So have they inserted the VP into the chain of command?
Which is what I said in post #17. St. Cronin says you and NPR have no idea what you are talking about. Why that is is an exercise left up to the reader, I suppose.