Why can't we just enjoy our sports sims?

[Tarkus]

I guess I'm as guilty as the next guy, but I sit here reading all these criticisms of FOF4, OOTP4, and what have you and can't help but wonder why we have to bitch so much about the realism apsect of these games. Now, I have a real problem with game bugs as that can totally destroy a game, but if there aren't any significant bugs why can't we just sit back and enjoy these games as long as they are somewhat realistic.

Is OOTP4 totally realistic? Of course not, but after the final patch I had a ton of fun with that game. Same with FOF2001, I played that game a lot after the final patch came out and totally got my money's worth. It's just not possible to make a absolutely realistic game, and try as you might people are going to find something wrong with it. Well I say, so what? As long as the game works, that is it doesn't have a lot of annoying or show stopping bugs, why not just enjoy? Maybe it's because those on these forums are diehards that we can't just enjoy a game. I dunno, but I for one will never bitch about the realistic aspect of a game. It just seems we focus so much on this we forget to enjoy the game.

Tarkus

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Tarkus
Is OOTP4 totally realistic? Of course not, but after the final patch I had a ton of fun with that game.

If you had a ton of fun, I'd think you are right not to bellyache. For those of us who found the game to be practically devoid of fun because of its weaknesses... we may feel otherwise.


Same with FOF2001, I played that game a lot after the final patch came out and totally got my money's worth.

Are you sure you reference the right game there?

[A-Husker-4-Life]

I didn't think there was ever a patch for FOF2001?? I must be wrong, where can I download it???

[HornedFrog Purple]

Simple really.

When a developer advertises his project to be "an accurate simulation of so-and-so sport" then the sim should do that.

"Put yourself in the front office"

I could go on....

Realism is secondary to consistancy in my opinion. I find glaring inconsistancies in OOTP in its current form which I wont rehash. FOF has them as well in the front office aspect more than the simulation of the game of football.

[Daimyo]

If you found OOTPv4 to be fun in solo play congratulations. OOTPv4 is pretty much unplayable to me in solo play. Not everyone has the same standards, nor should you expect them to.

[Brillig]

Many people do enjoy their sports sims. Most of them don't feel a need to go to message boards and 'fan-boy' about them, which is why a cursory perusal of message boards will leave you wondering why anyone would get into this business...

And yes, I just turned fan-boy into a verb.

*sigh*

[MizzouRah]

Not everyone has the same standards

EXACTLY. I had a blast with ootp4, even though it was easy to build a winner (I'm not a house rules guy).

FOF4 has been much harder, but it's a different sim.

As long as things get patched to make a product work as advertised, I'm happy.


Todd

[Anrhydeddu]

I think it does all come down to expectations, as had been brought up before. This may be especially true for those that have been playing a particular series for a while.

For example, I never even touched OOTP until v.4. When I discovered that you can import the Lahman database and create custom/historical leagues, that is all the fun I would ever need. And, I am well aware of its weaknesses and the need for house rules. On the other hand, I had been playing FOF since v.2. FOF2001 certainly got enough playtime, despite its weaknesses and the need for house rules. FOF4 just didn't do anything for me because of expectations. I expected it to be more advanced and clever than FOF2001 - it's not at all, imo. I also expected it to be more "Front Office" and in fact, the opposite was true. Conversely, I think those coming into FOF for the first time with v.4 would be pleased with it, if you have an expectation of how an on-field simulation operates.

[GrantDawg]

The only text sports sims that I have gotten my money's worth in the last two years:

1. CM 00/01
2. Cm 01/02
3. EHM (free. Hard not too).


That's it. TDCB may make the list, but I just got it. These games are in sports I'm not half as excited about as Football and baseball. Yet, I haven't found a game close to the quality of these.

[MizzouRah]

You really haven't gotten your money's worth out of FOF4? ...or do you not have it?

These are my Top 5

1. Ootp4
2. FOF4
3. HH2002
4. TCY
5. FOF2

Medal of Honor was also a great game, I played that game everyday until I finished it. I also liked Return to Castle Wolfenstein and I still play C&C Red Alert sometimes.


Todd

[Easy Mac]

I tend to agree mostly with the idea Arhy... is using.

I didn't play FOF until v4 (not including TCY) or OOTP until v4.

For me, FOF4 felt like I had control over my team, and my moves made a difference. I felt I had a more hands on game than OOTP. There it just felt like I'd end up simming the whole season b/c if I made a move I'd win the championship. And while I like the idea of simming a history, its much better as an idea than practice to me, as I don't have that kind of patience.

That being said, I expected nothing from the 2 games, and I liked 1 and hated the other. 50% seems about right for picking good games. CM has lost a little luster for me. I enjoy it, but it just became boring and repetetive. Having played since near the beginning, seeing the game is going to be great, but it won't be the be all end all. It could be a screen with a sheet of paper and poorly scribbled attributes, so long as the game kept me interested with a killer simulation. Thats why I look forward to the MLS part of the next version. It will be a break form the repetetive European type game, where every league feels the same.

So long as I get a game that simulates accurately and makes me feel involved, I'm happy.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by MizzouRah
You really haven't gotten your money's worth out of FOF4? ...or do you not have it?

These are my Top 5

1. Ootp4
2. FOF4
3. HH2002
4. TCY
5. FOF2

Medal of Honor was also a great game, I played that game everyday until I finished it. I also liked Return to Castle Wolfenstein and I still play C&C Red Alert sometimes.


Todd

Yes, I do. I played it for about an hour. Even with the additions, it felt like the same old game.

[Karim]

We're critical because we're passionate about the sport?

If I had paid for EHM, I would have been extremely disappointed and would have voiced my displeasure on whatever forums were available. EHM:FE will get a very critical look from me, not because I want the game to fail, but because it is my favourite sport.

Upon starting the game if Atlanta wins five cups in a row, or P.J. Stock gets a $25 million/5 year contract, or the ACC only has 10,000 in attendance, or Jagr is traded to Edmonton, or Roenick is sent to the minors, or Heatley decides to play in England, or a team signs two starting goalies to huge coin, or the worst team in the league trades their 1(1) pick for a few stiffs, ... these things will tick me off to no end and I'll voice my displeasure to the developers.

The game may still function beautifully otherwise and never crash, but that's only one side of the equation.

[Malificent]

I think part of the problem is that if these sims simulated something that wasn't already a real sport, call it Bingoball, we'd be pretty happy with them.

However they simulate a real sport, and therefore we try to apply the rules that we know apply to the sport to this simulation of the sport, and the simulation comes up lacking. That is like an itch in the back of my brain that I can't scratch, constantly bothering me when I play OOTP4 solo.

I imagine that if I was willing to pretend that OOTP4 simulated blaseball or baseboll or something else, I could probably overlook its flaws easier.

That said (sorry Buddy), I have a blast playing in multiplayer with it. But still lots of room for improvement.