KOREA vs. USA Baseball Classic (in progress)

[Galaril]

geez Kim hits a 2 run HR. THe guy got five Homers in a little over four games. He is the Koreans alltime HR leader and is showing. Boy, I hope the USA gets their act together. I don't want to listen to my inlaws and wife brag that their team kicked the US teams ass in there national pasttime.

[Jas_lov]

2 on no outs, and A-Rod strikes out and Chipper hits in to a double play. The USA has had numerous chances and has blown them all. 6-1 Korea.

[ISiddiqui]

Not doing the job. Leaving waaay too many men on base.

[kingfc22]

Is the game over?

[SunDevil]

I do not know, but last time I checked it was 6 -1 and the US was just swinging for the fences and missing...

[SunDevil]

http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/worldbaseballclassic/scoreboard

[saldana]

for anyone that saw the game, how exactly did Griffey Jr make an unassisted double play? i dont think i have ever seen/heard of an outfielder pulling that off before.

[Jas_lov]

The Korean runner at 2nd forgot how many outs there were I guess, and ran all the way home on a sac fly to center when there was only 1 out. Griffey caught the fly ball and jogged to 2nd and got the unassisted double play.

[digamma]

I went to the game. The US stunk it up on the field and in the stands.

[VPI97]

I went to the game. The US stunk it up on the field and in the stands.
I stayed up until 5am watching the game...I think you had it worse, though.

[SirFozzie]

So if Japan loses to Mexico (not bloody likely) today, then the Mexico-USA game is a semifinal decider. If Japan wins, then the US must beat up Mexico to have a shot (and hope Korea beats Japan, or loses in a slugfest.

[digamma]

I stayed up until 5am watching the game...I think you had it worse, though. My favorite quote of the night came from the slightly inebriated fan behind me, who after being warned by stadium security for his behavior (which included among other things flipping off nearby Korean fans and trying to start repeated F Korea chants), says, "This is the god damn U S of A. I know my rights. If I want to flip someone off, I can flip someone off." Then, you had the guy wearing a Yankees jacket (fittingly) who got the attention of a large group of older Korean fans sitting near us, broke a Korean flag he had been given, stomped on the flag, and then pretended to use the broken flag pole as chopsticks to pick up and mock eat the flag. Pure class. Incidents like that, plus having absolutely nothing to cheer about on the field, left me feeling a wee bit disgusted by the end of the night.

[Honolulu_Blue]

My favorite quote of the night came from the slightly inebriated fan behind me, who after being warned by stadium security for his behavior (which included among other things flipping off nearby Korean fans and trying to start repeated F Korea chants), says, "This is the god damn U S of A. I know my rights. If I want to flip someone off, I can flip someone off." Then, you had the guy wearing a Yankees jacket (fittingly) who got the attention of a large group of older Korean fans sitting near us, broke a Korean flag he had been given, stomped on the flag, and then pretended to use the broken flag pole as chopsticks to pick up and mock eat the flag. Pure class. Incidents like that, plus having absolutely nothing to cheer about on the field, left me feeling a wee bit disgusted by the end of the night.

Wow. That's classy. I don't blame you for being disgusted.

[Ksyrup]

Major leaguers, please report back to Arizona and Florida immediately. Your real teams need you.

[SirFozzie]

Major leaguers, please report back to Arizona and Florida immediately. Your real teams need you.

No, I like this. The players like it too.

[ISiddiqui]

No, I like this. The players like it too.

Ditto.

Rather be watching this than spring training anyday.

[Huckleberry]

USA advancement scenarios:

If Mexico beats Japan:

Team USA advances by beating Mexico and is eliminated by losing to Mexico.

If Japan beats Mexico:

Team USA advances with a win over Mexico if:

Korea beats Japan
or
Japan beats Korea and scores 8 runs or more

OR

Team USA advances with a loss to Mexico if:

Korea beats Japan and Team USA's runs allowed to Mexico plus 3 is less than Mexico's total runs allowed versus Japan and the USA.

[Ksyrup]

Blech. There was so little on last night, I ended up watching some medical freak show rather than this. This is about as appealing as the Olympics to me.

As far as spring training goes, you don't watch it unless you can go to a game in person anyway, so watching spring training games versus these games isn't really the issue. I just want the players to be getting ready for the games that really matter, not wasting time playing exhibitions 2 weeks before the season starts.

[ISiddiqui]

Well put it this way, I'd rather watch this than some games in midseason... though I'd like to see them in shape, so many expand the All Star Break to 3 weeks or so and do it then.

[gstelmack]

The players like it too.

They sure aren't playing like it...

[Huckleberry]

They sure aren't playing like it...

Always solid to make judgments about baseball players based on a 5-game sample.

Especially when the starting pitcher in the two losses has been the same guy, who apparently isn't sharp right now.

[Ksyrup]

Well put it this way, I'd rather watch this than some games in midseason... though I'd like to see them in shape, so many expand the All Star Break to 3 weeks or so and do it then.

No way! At least right now, I'm not really missing anything. I don't watch spring training games, and the news out of camps about young players and such is still the same. Put this travesty in the middle of the season (you're talking July) and there would be virtually no sports to watch for 3 weeks. After a solid 3 months of baseball, even taking the All-Star break off is difficult for me. I couldn't imagine losing 2-3 weeks of baseball in the middle of the season. That would be a worst-case scenario.

[Huckleberry]

USA advancement scenarios:
Team USA advances with a win over Mexico if:
Korea beats Japan
or
Japan beats Korea and scores 8 runs or more (more may be necessary for an extra inning game)
OR
Team USA advances with a loss to Mexico if:
Korea beats Japan
AND
Team USA's loss to Mexico is by less than 3 runs.
Tricky situations:
If Japan beats Korea and scores exactly 7 runs or if Korea beats Japan and Mexico beats the USA by exactly 3 runs then the tiebreakers would depend on if any of the runs scored in the relevant game were unearned. If so, the team allowing the unearned run(s) would advance. If not, then the tiebreaker would move to team batting average in the games between the tied teams.
Basically, if Japan beats Korea and scores fewer than 7 earned runs we're eliminated. If Japan beats Korea and scores exactly 7 earned runs we move to team batting average.

[GrantDawg]

When and were are any of these games on? I haven't seen anything on them.

[ISiddiqui]

I couldn't imagine losing 2-3 weeks of baseball in the middle of the season.

What do you think these players play? Cricket?

You are just not choosing to watch, ie, not losing anything.

When and were are any of these games on?

I'm not sure when, but 'where' is usually on ESPN2. Some are on ESPN though.

[Celeval]

I'd love to see this during an extended All-Star break as well, but probably won't happen.

[oykib]

All you guys who want an extended All-star break are crazy. You want the WS going until the middle of November. And what about all the players who aren't in the WBC. They'd come back and we'd have to watch at least a week of shitty baseball because the players' timing was off.

[SirFozzie]

Wow. HUGE hit by Korea there.

[Celeval]

All you guys who want an extended All-star break are crazy. You want the WS going until the middle of November. And what about all the players who aren't in the WBC. They'd come back and we'd have to watch at least a week of shitty baseball because the players' timing was off.

I'm just as cool with compressing the rest of the season with doubleheaders (as someone on cnnsi or espn suggested in an article todayish), or treating it like world soccer - you leave your team to go play, while your team is still going on. Let GMs call up minor leaguers to replace, without it costing options to do so... so you'll also get a chance to see some young talent in the big leagues at the same time.

[digamma]

2-1. Japan can knock us out with a rally here.

[digamma]

Korea hangs on!

The US advances with a win over Mexico tomorrow.

[SirFozzie]

you know how much it means when a guy strikes out and starts CRYING on the way back to the dugout

[Ragone]

you know how much it means to Team usa when them advancing has to do with a series of convaluted tie breakers that are more impossibly difficult then they need to be

[Fouts]

South Korea is 6-0 in the WBC, and Chan Ho Park has been a stud. Amazing.

Clemens goes against Mexico later today, against Oliver Perez I believe.

[gstelmack]

Always solid to make judgments about baseball players based on a 5-game sample.

Especially when the starting pitcher in the two losses has been the same guy, who apparently isn't sharp right now.

How much damage can the guy do when he can only throw 60 pitches?

Or to put it another way: I don't necessarily blame the major leaguers for not getting fully into this thing when they have stupid rules like a pitch count for the starting pitchers. That's just bush league.

[Huckleberry]

you know how much it means to Team usa when them advancing has to do with a series of convaluted tie breakers that are more impossibly difficult then they need to be

If the USA beats Mexico today, that series of convoluted tiebreakers that are impossibly difficult will be:

1.) Overall record

How much damage can the guy do when he can only throw 60 pitches?

Or to put it another way: I don't necessarily blame the major leaguers for not getting fully into this thing when they have stupid rules like a pitch count for the starting pitchers. That's just bush league.

Unfortunately he did quite a bit of damage, although I agree with your overall point.

[Maple Leafs]

Thought this was an interesting take by King Kaufman in Salon:

Tell me if this sounds familiar.

A team of U.S. All-Stars in a quintessentially American sport goes to an international competition and, despite its enormous, multimillion-dollar talent, turns in a lackluster showing.

But there seems to be a big difference between the men's Olympic basketball team that bricked its way to a bronze medal in 2004 and the baseball team that has gone 3-2 and will be eliminated from the World Baseball Classic Wednesday night if Japan beats Korea and either gives up fewer than seven runs or scores more than seven.

Where is the outrage? Where are the talk radio hosts jabbering endlessly about the Americans' lack of fundamentals, bad attitudes, laziness, preoccupation with bling?

Americans are about to get bounced from an international tournament in their own sport -- and worse, at home -- and I haven't heard one word about the team's moral shortcomings. The basketball team's losses were proof of a breakdown in society. In baseball, hey, anything can happen in a short series.

There is that. And what other striking difference is there in the makeup of the USA's 2004 basketball team and 2006 baseball team? Does anything jump out at you when you look at (http://www.usocpressbox.org/usoc/pressbox.nsf/0/f9ca4e57ef02b46885256ef00030bae3?OpenDocument) the team photos (http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/usab/galleries/wbc-030306/team-photo-lg.jpg)?

[ISiddiqui]

The Race Card!

But it is a very interesting take. I wonder what is the difference here. Is it because of the timing of the tourney? The fact it is not for a medal?

Or is it because people knew there were other talented squads, while in basketball we think the rest of the world sucks?

[st.cronin]

duh

It's because the basketball teams get compared to the Dream Team.

[wade moore]

The Race Card!

But it is a very interesting take. I wonder what is the difference here. Is it because of the timing of the tourney? The fact it is not for a medal?

Or is it because people knew there were other talented squads, while in basketball we think the rest of the world sucks?

I think it's more your last point than anything else. Heck, there is a much larger percentage of foreign talent in MLB than in the NBA. And for that matter, there are more star MLB players on the teams of other countries in the WBC than there has been for international basketball.

[pennywisesb]

The Race Card!

But it is a very interesting take. I wonder what is the difference here. Is it because of the timing of the tourney? The fact it is not for a medal?

Or is it because people knew there were other talented squads, while in basketball we think the rest of the world sucks?

Well, once we allowed pros to play for the USA in basketball we completely dominated the sport up until a few years ago. We've never dominated baseball the same way.

[Hammer755]

duh

It's because the basketball teams get compared to the Dream Team.
Perhaps it's because teams like the Dominican Republic and Venezuela have as much, if not more, talent than the US team, thus the fans don't expect to dominate an international competition. Additionally, it's far easier for a less-talented team (see Canada) to win any given game in baseball than it is in basketball. Baseball is simply not meant for short-series pools followed by a single-elimination tournament.

[ISiddiqui]

Well looking at the upsets in the NCAA tournament, one can say that baseball is not meant for a single elimination either (anything can happen in one game), which is why it is a 7 game series in the NBA playoffs.

[Ksyrup]

What do you think these players play? Cricket?

You are just not choosing to watch, ie, not losing anything.

Yes, I would be losing the ability to watch major league baseball for two weeks during the baseball season. I would be choosing not to watch something that is not major league baseball. It may be baseball, but it doesn't mean jack shit to me so I wouldn't watch it. Much in the same way I would "lose" the ability to watch the NFL if, in mid-October, they shut it down so they could all play Arena ball for a couple of weeks. Except at least I'd have college football to fall back on.

I don't give a shit about countries playing baseball. I want to watch American and National League baseball games. At least I'm not losing anything right now, because spring training is worthless without being at the games and they don't count, in any event.

[BigDPW]

It would be interesting to see Major Leaguer per capita and/or All Star Major Leaguer per capita information comparing Venezuela, PR, Dominican Republic to the USA. They have very concentrated talent which is why I am very surprised that all of the pundits early in the WBC have been so quick to wonder why we aren't dominating...

Seems logical to me that our baseball talent it pretty much on par with most of the other teams in the WBC except Holland, South Africa, Canada, etc... Plus having pool play with teams that see each other only once and then elimination games doesn't really seperate the teams enough in a game like baseball. Basketball if different because in 40-48 minutes a dominant team and deep team can wear down a far superior team. Baseball on the other hand in one game is pretty much a crap shoot... You get a few decent innings from you starter and bullpen and drive in a couple of runs and any team can win...

I would like to see more of a double elimination type event like the regionals in college baseball and the College World Series at some point in the WBC... I think that would lend it self more to seperating the good teams and the bad especially early in the WBC... I like the excitement of single elimination in the Semifinals and Finals...

[ISiddiqui]

I just heard an interesting theory as to why Koreans are fired up. Korea has mandatory military service for males when they hit 20-21. Not sure how many players are that age, but the Korean government dangled an exemption from military service for the players if they made it to the semifinals :D.

[Jas_lov]

Anyone watching U.S. vs. Mexico? I'm flipping back and forth, but from what I understand Mexico can't score a run until the 13th inning and have to shut out the U.S. and win by 3 runs after the 13th inning to advance which is pretty stupid if you ask me. Right now it's 0-0 in the 3rd.

[ISiddiqui]

Mexico got HOSED there! What a bad call! Another bad call that goes for the Americans... people may start to wonder here.

[ISiddiqui]

Anyone watching U.S. vs. Mexico? I'm flipping back and forth, but from what I understand Mexico can't score a run until the 13th inning and have to shut out the U.S. and win by 3 runs after the 13th inning to advance which is pretty stupid if you ask me. Right now it's 0-0 in the 3rd.

These tiebreakers confuse me.

[Jas_lov]

But ironically if Mexico had scored they would have eliminated themselves! Thank you umpires.

[ISiddiqui]

And Mexico eliminated themselves.. but I think they want to play spoiler.

[kingfc22]

3 hits! That's all we have after 7 innings.

[cthomer5000]

The US is in pretty bad shape right now. Only 6 outs left to pull this out.

Er, make that 5 outs.

[Young Drachma]

Wow..they're gonna lose and get booted out of hte tourney. Oh well. My friend and I joked it's because Buck Martinez is the manager. Only, it's not a joke.

[Young Drachma]

I just heard an interesting theory as to why Koreans are fired up. Korea has mandatory military service for males when they hit 20-21. Not sure how many players are that age, but the Korean government dangled an exemption from military service for the players if they made it to the semifinals :D.

Apparently, a few of the guys on the team are from the Olympic Bronze Medal team from 2004 and they all got exemptions and so, they're playing hard for the kids who are left, so they can get them too.

Because naturally, they can stand to make a lot more money playing pro baseball and well, not risk dying, but a lot of them have major league level talent, whether its Japan Major League or playing in the US majors increasingly.

[cthomer5000]

Mexico's pitching has been damn good.

[ISiddiqui]

We are so going to lose this game and get bounced from the tourney.... shameful, especially considering the US players who declined to play.

[cthomer5000]

I'm personally rooting against the USA just because of that bullshit call in the Japan game.

[ISiddiqui]

I'm personally rooting against the USA just because of that bullshit call in the Japan game.

And the bullshit call in this game? ;)

Sure it didn't cost Mexico much (we'll never know though), but still. Obvious bias by the umpires it seems like.

[kingfc22]

Griffey needs to get on-base.

[Young Drachma]

Needless to say, this is more interesting to watch than a spring training game and makes me excited for the season to start.

[cthomer5000]

Griffey needs to get on-base.

He would have walked on that 6th pitch, the one he fouled off. Instead he just got lit up on that fastball.

[ISiddiqui]

Needless to say, this is more interesting to watch than a spring training game and makes me excited for the season to start.

Yep... more exciting than your average All-Star Game as well. Hell, more exciting than some mid-season games!

[kingfc22]

That was a fat pitch that A-Rod just missed.

[Jas_lov]

It's up to A-rod. The guy they just brought in seems pretty wild.

[Young Drachma]

Maybe after we lose to Mexico, we'll get Bush to announce he's imploring Congress to repeal NAFTA after losing to both Canada and Mexico in the WBC.

[cthomer5000]

Mexico has totally lost their grip here... lord almighty.

[Celeval]

Even just watching on the gamecast this is exciting. :-D

[kingfc22]

Doh!

[Young Drachma]

Game, set, match.

[cthomer5000]

Japan-Korea part III. I'm excited for it.

[Abe Sargent]

Nice!


-Anxiety

[Young Drachma]

I'm sorta glad that they lost, because they really needed a reality check. And it's not as if anyone expected the US team to win the thing. What's funnier is, he was happy after winning. And they're done. But..it's impressive that they wanted to play spoiler.

[Young Drachma]

Fernandomania!

[Ksyrup]

OK, I just flipped over to ESPN and saw ARod doing his "we just lost and I'm staring dejectedly at the field" thing. I never, EVER get tired of that. It's like they took footage from his past several post-seasons and just super-imposed a USA uni over his Yankees one.

Now that we're out, can we get back to preparing for the real games?

[sterlingice]

Thought this was an interesting take by King Kaufman in Salon:

I dunno, it's just another person playing the race card when it's a load of crap. One is the Olympics, one is a mindless exhibition that just started this year. It's like asking why Italy isn't up in arms like it is when they lose in the World Cup or something. The WBC just doesn't mean anything. Maybe it will in 40 years but we aren't even sending our best players and that's been the biggest story for the past couple basketball teams and that's what it is for this.

SI

[Young Drachma]

That Japan-Korea game will be nuts.

[Young Drachma]

Mexico is celebrating like they won the NLCS. lol.. sorta cool to see.

[Abe Sargent]

Now that we're out, can we get back to preparing for the real games?


The caliber and emotion of these games in better than anything we'll see in MLB for months. Some teams will never play with as much enthusiasm as some of these countries (Cuba, for example).

If you don't think this is real baseball, I feel sorry for ya.

-Anxiety

[Young Drachma]

The caliber and emotion of these games in better than anything we'll see in MLB for months. Some teams will never play with as much enthusiasm as some of these countries (Cuba, for example).

If you don't think this is real baseball, I feel sorry for ya.

-Anxiety

I second that. It felt like a pennant race.

[Ksyrup]

The caliber and emotion of these games in better than anything we'll see in MLB for months. Some teams will never play with as much enthusiasm as some of these countries (Cuba, for example).

If you don't think this is real baseball, I feel sorry for ya.

-Anxiety

I don't care about the jingoistic emotions displayed for meaningless baseball games (or any sporting event, for that matter). Even though I love the game of baseball, I don't watch college baseball, and I don't watch minor league baseball. I want to watch the games that contribute to the history of MLB baseball, and would (and have, and will) watch a June matchup between the Royals and Mariners before I'd even think of watching these games. It may be "real baseball" - hell, it may be higher quality than 75% of MLB games - but the games mean nothing to the leagues I enjoy watching, and what's worse, they actually detract from the preparation for the only games that matter to me.

I want a full season of MLB competition, followed by the playoffs. That's the only baseball worth watching and following to me. I'll get plenty of emotion and drama and all that other stuff from the pennant races and playoffs. Until then, I'll enjoy the grind that is the MLB season. I can't wait for April 3rd.

[ISiddiqui]

That Japan-Korea game will be nuts.
Yep. I can't wait. That'll be an out and out war.

Dominican v. Cuba should be fun as well.

[ISiddiqui]

The caliber and emotion of these games in better than anything we'll see in MLB for months. Some teams will never play with as much enthusiasm as some of these countries (Cuba, for example).

If you don't think this is real baseball, I feel sorry for ya.

-Anxiety

Thirded. I'm glad I got to watch this tourney. Great idea! I hope a WBC II is green lighted for 2 or 3 or 4 years (or whatever) after this one. Selig, you done this one right. I salute you!

[Ksyrup]

I guess I don't get the interest/excitement. Then again, I get nauseated by the olympics, so it's probably just my admittedly minority stance on sporting events determining the self-worth of countries. Especially in this day and age, I find it to be a more damaging activity than something that helps to promote peace. Just the idea of rooting for my country to beat another country in a sporting event makes me uneasy.

[lungs]

This tournament has been great. I'm loving that the USA didn't make the semifinals. Not because I hate my country but because I love underdogs.

I've also been rooting against the DR throughout the tourney. I really hope Cuba beats them so the people that didn't want Cuba to participate in this tourney can go suck a big fat one.

[ISiddiqui]

I guess I don't get the interest/excitement. Then again, I get nauseated by the olympics, so it's probably just my admittedly minority stance on sporting events determining the self-worth of countries. Especially in this day and age, I find it to be a more damaging activity than something that helps to promote peace. Just the idea of rooting for my country to beat another country in a sporting event makes me uneasy.

And rooting for regional bragging rights is much better? And if you don't think the sports leagues promote regional rivalries, you haven't been paying attention.

And events like the Olympics, World Cup, do as much to bring countries together as they do in making them divisive. Look at the nice moment in WC '98 where the US and Iran players were friendly before the game they played against each other.

[Ksyrup]

And rooting for regional bragging rights is much better? And if you don't think the sports leagues promote regional rivalries, you haven't been paying attention.

And events like the Olympics, World Cup, do as much to bring countries together as they do in making them divisive. Look at the nice moment in WC '98 where the US and Iran players were friendly before the game they played against each other.

I see a HUGE difference between regional/state/city rivalries (nearly all of which are within our borders) and country rivalries. Look at how soccer is treated in the rest of the world, where many countries are so small that their national teams, by necessity, mean more to them than any kind of league(s) they might establish. Thank goodness we live in a country large enough and wealthy enough that our major sports can be controlled by business and not government.

From what I've seen, when you wrap sports in a national flag, you bring to it a "them against us" nationalistic sentiment that is far more likely to be hateful than, for instance, a college rivalry. When FSU and UF play, we might make a big deal of our disdain for each other, but rarely does that get taken to the extremes that "national pride" is taken. And the reason for that is simple: at the end of the day, we work and live together after the game ends, we're all Floridians, we're all Americans, and there's a common bond there that is missing when two countries play each other.

It's what allows Iran to beat us in soccer then claim that God allowed them to win because we are The Great Satan (yeah, what a "great moment"). FSU fans joked about Steve Spurrier in that way; Iranians mean it. It's what leads fans in other countries to attack referees and other fans, because they've so wrapped their own self-worth in their national pride that they allow the outcome of a stupid fucking game to cause them to lose all perspective. That is a rare occurence in our country, at least to the extent and severity it occurs in other parts of the world.

Again, I know I'm in minority here, but the idea of tying sports to the international community is unsettling to me. It's so much easier to lose perspective when national pride is at stake, that the passions exhibited are unhealthy and often hateful.

[ISiddiqui]

It's what leads fans in other countries to attack referees and other fans, because they've so wrapped their own self-worth in their national pride that they allow the outcome of a stupid fucking game to cause them to lose all perspective.
Um... you do realize that happens within their own NATIONAL leagues as well. It's what I'm talking about with the regional rivalries. Certain team/region fans HATE the other team/region. They will litterly fight with people wearing the opposite colors.

When you compare US college rivalries to international soccer rivalries, you are comparing apples and oranges, because what happens in international soccer is NOTHING compared to what happens in INTRAnational soccer leagues in these countries. And yes, some of these teams in certain areas of the world claim God has won the game for them (and mean it).

And yes, US/Iran WC match was a great moment, because players from both teams met at the center of the pitch, shook hands, and realized it didn't matter what the countries thought of each other.

For comparison, look at international basketball. No one attacks refs or fans. No one gets all riled up. It's because the sport itself isn't one of great passion. Soccer is, on ALL levels, so international, intranational are both highly charged up affairs.

And for the most part, I see more friendship and unity among athletes from different countries in the Olympics than divisiveness.

[lungs]

Cuba's victories over such puppets like Puerto Rico are a symbol of the worker overcoming the imperialist worms.

[Abe Sargent]

And the reason for that is simple: at the end of the day, we work and live together after the game ends, we're all Floridians, we're all Americans, and there's a common bond there that is missing when two countries play each other.




I think that you are mssing a bond tighter that regional identification. We're all people.

-Anxiety

[Ksyrup]

I think that you are mssing a bond tighter that regional identification. We're all people.

-Anxiety

I guess I don't understand the ultimate goal of national sporting competition, though. I mean, even in professional sports, my favorite teams in my 2 favorite sports are based in cities where I've never lived. Yes, I root for my home town teams in Detroit secondarily, but I don't live or die by them. I'm interested in what happens in pro leagues because of the games they play, the ultimate crowning of a league champion, and the transactions that occur on a yearly basis, all of which forms the league's history and identity.

None of that happens in international sporting events, aside from crowning a champion, but what does that mean exactly? They are the best country? It's not like I'm going to look at the WBC, for example, and decide I'm going to root for Puerto Rico because I like the players on their team. No, who I would root for is based entirely on where I live. Yet, you can find fans of all pro/college teams in pretty much every corner of this country, so promoting regional rivalries outside of international competitions only goes so far.

Again, I guess it just comes down to a lack of understanding for the ultimate purpose of these kinds of competitions, when we've got the greatest leagues in the world in the sports that matter most to me. I can understand why this means everything to Puerto Rico or Cuba, because again, they tie their countries' worth and status in the international community to winning these types of contests (which I see as a bad thing). But why I should care about this, when our own leagues are so far superior and I don't need a good showing in this kind of competition to validate the worth of my country, I just don't get.

[Fouts]

Bummer seeing the US lose, because I like seeing my country do well in international competitions. Oh well, it was some exciting baseball.

[ISiddiqui]

It's not like I'm going to look at the WBC, for example, and decide I'm going to root for Puerto Rico because I like the players on their team.

Why not? I'm going to root for the Koreans, as well as the Americans, in baseball competitions from now on.

But why I should care about this, when our own leagues are so far superior and I don't need a good showing in this kind of competition to validate the worth of my country, I just don't get.

To see who is the best team, just like in any other sport. Yes, there is a lot of national pride in seeing your team do well, but the same goes for sports like college football (regional or school pride... Hell, I think people in college football who pump millions for their team are much more into school pride than these countries are in national pride).

[Ksyrup]

To see who is the best team, just like in any other sport. Yes, there is a lot of national pride in seeing your team do well, but the same goes for sports like college football (regional or school pride... Hell, I think people in college football who pump millions for their team are much more into school pride than these countries are in national pride).

But these aren't really teams in the sense that I want to root for teams. They're just a collection of players who happen to be from a particular country. Aside from that, there's no rhyme or reason. There's no draft, no free agency, no trades, nothing that makes the typical sports league fun for me. They're just a hodge-podge collection of players playing a round robin tournament once every four years. Woo hoo.

Eh, we've beaten this to death. I'll be back on April 2nd.

[ISiddiqui]

But these aren't really teams in the sense that I want to root for teams. They're just a collection of players who happen to be from a particular country. Aside from that, there's no rhyme or reason. There's no draft, no free agency, no trades, nothing that makes the typical sports league fun for me. They're just a hodge-podge collection of players playing a round robin tournament once every four years. Woo hoo.

Yet it is the best collection of talent and they want to win the tourney. Its an All Star tournament with meaning. Look at Soccer's World Cup. It's the biggest event in the sport, far greater than national (or supranational) cup competitions. People want to see the best soccer, even if their country doesn't make it. They want to see the brilliance of the Brazilians, the tactical play of the Germans, the skill of the Italians, the hustle & determination of the English, etc. It's great if their team moves on, but they really want to see great performances.

[Ksyrup]

And I guess the bottom line for me is, I'm content seeing great performances in the context of an existing league format that has a rich history I grew up with and love. I don't need all-star teams made up of common nationalities to enjoy baseball. And I don't see the meaning in winning it, either. I think it depends solely on the country. If the US happened to win, I don't think the euphoria would last beyond the first pitch of the regular season.

[ISiddiqui]

I'm content seeing great performances in the context of an existing league format

Which may not contain all of the best players? After all, it is fun watching these Japanese and Korean players who play in Asian leagues. Some of them probably could jump to the MLB, but they play in the Japanese or Korean league for now.

[Ksyrup]

If they are among the best players and want to play with and against the best players in the world, they'll make their way to the US. If not, I have no use for them. I'm happy with the quality of play in the Majors. But most importantly, I enjoy the Majors in the context of the history of the game. That's really what is so important to me. Throwing a bunch of related people on teams every 4 years and playing a round robin tournament doesn't excite me at all.

About all you need to know to understand where I'm coming from is that when I create a fictional league in OOTP, I sim a minimum of 75 years of history before I even consider playing as one of the teams, and I spend hours looking at the stats and standings of all the players who make up the history of the game. That gives the league depth and context that this kind of tournament completely lacks. Not to mention my whole issue with international competitions in general.

*shurg*

[IwasHere]

If they are among the best players and want to play with and against the best players in the world, they'll make their way to the US.
How can you still say this?

After watching the US team struggle to get out of round 1, and get left behind in round 2; I can no longer say every year that the World Champions play in the United States.

Althought I blame most of our WBC problems this year on the coaching staff. See the title of this thread for the best Coaching staff at the WBC.

[Butter]

This must be one hell of a long game.

[Hammer755]

How can you still say this?

After watching the US team struggle to get out of round 1, and get left behind in round 2; I can no longer say every year that the World Champions play in the United States.

Althought I blame most of our WBC problems this year on the coaching staff. See the title of this thread for the best Coaching staff at the WBC.

I fail to see how the early exit of the US team means that MLB is no longer the best league in the world. 90% (WAG) of the globe's best players still play in the US.

[cthomer5000]

I fail to see how the early exit of the US team means that MLB is no longer the best league in the world. 90% (WAG) of the globe's best players still play in the US.

I would say that in any given year, the Japanese champs would have a pretty decent chance of beating the "World Series" champs in a best of seven.

[KevinNU7]

Could anything be more retarded then teams that just played each other in pool play meeting again in the knockout rounds?

[Ksyrup]

How can you still say this?

After watching the US team struggle to get out of round 1, and get left behind in round 2; I can no longer say every year that the World Champions play in the United States.

Althought I blame most of our WBC problems this year on the coaching staff. See the title of this thread for the best Coaching staff at the WBC.

I don't give a crap who wins what in this tournament. We still have the best organized baseball leagues in the world, and the vast majority of the best players in the world play in those leagues. In fact, 95% of the best players on the other teams are playing in the Majors anyway. The rest of the roster fillers either wouldn't make it in our major leagues or have other reasons why they aren't playing here. Why is Puerto Rico so good? Because of all of the major league talent on their team. That's why this arbitrary "X country's players versus Y country's players" crap is silly. And why you are completely missing the fact that NEARLY ALL OF THE OTHER COUNTRY'S BEST PLAYERS DO PLAY IN THE US, which is what makes the Majors clearly superior to these games.

Not to mention, if you really care about which country has the "best" baseball talent (which I don't), look at the all-star team of people who didn't or couldn't play for the US in this tournament. I mean, Al Leiter is in the bullpen for the US team, for cripes sake! Is this 1998? In 2006, he represents the best the US has to offer?! Jeff Francoeur is starting?! A guy who will be lucky to have a job other than coming off the bench by mid-season is in our OF? That's great!

[Ksyrup]

I would say that in any given year, the Japanese champs would have a pretty decent chance of beating the "World Series" champs in a best of seven.

See, this doesn't even matter to me. If they are so good, combine the leagues, cut out the crap from the existing Major Leagues, and make it a true international league. That's all I care about. None of this tournament stuff. Either play in a league together with us (individually or as teams), or stay the hell away from my leagues. Don't impact my favorite sport with meaningless international competitions.

Again, this whole "the Japanese can beat the Americans" type stuff just turns my stomach. Do it in the context of competing in a league, where players get mixed in and you win based not on the superiority of the nationality of your team, but the composition of your team regardless of nationality. I just don't get why nationality factors into this at all, other than as an interesting demographic study of the composition of baseball teams.

[Galaril]

Which may not contain all of the best players? After all, it is fun watching these Japanese and Korean players who play in Asian leagues. Some of them probably could jump to the MLB, but they play in the Japanese or Korean league for now.


I don't buy this. The Korea alltime homerun king "The Lion King" guy Yeon Sup Lee, has 6 homers and is killing the ball in this tournament. But, when he came he to spring training in the states and tried out for a couple of teams he couldn't make the cut. He then went ove rto Japan bragging he would break the record in Japan for Homeruns and couldn't make it ou tof the minor leagues. This is just one example of the level of talent outside of the Major Leagues. If a guy has the talent 9 times out of 10 he is over here not back in Maldives playing ball.

[lungs]

This seems pretty pointless to argue. If you don't dig the tourney, you don't dig it. Opening day is coming.

Others enjoy this tournament quite a bit, myself included. Improvements can be made, but I think overall this tournament is accomplishing its purpose which is to reach out and expand international baseball. The USA seems to have been a little lukewarm to this and it ultimately shows by their performance. This tournament is directed at internationals who don't really have a regional team to be rooting for in the MLB.

It doesn't surprise me that Americans are lukewarm to this, nor does it bother me. If you don't like it, don't watch it and don't bitch about it. For me it has been a very pleasant diversion from spring training and has given me a nice teaser for the upcoming season.

[Ksyrup]

Do you get cable in your car?

[cthomer5000]

See, this doesn't even matter to me. If they are so good, combine the leagues, cut out the crap from the existing Major Leagues, and make it a true international league. That's all I care about. None of this tournament stuff. Either play in a league together with us (individually or as teams), or stay the hell away from my leagues. Don't impact my favorite sport with meaningless international competitions.

Again, this whole "the Japanese can beat the Americans" type stuff just turns my stomach. Do it in the context of competing in a league, where players get mixed in and you win based not on the superiority of the nationality of your team, but the composition of your team regardless of nationality. I just don't get why nationality factors into this at all, other than as an interesting demographic study of the composition of baseball teams.


Well, I think a fair number of people (myself included) think this might be a first step towards a true "World Series" at some point. Or perhaps this itself will eventually be as big as the World Cup is to soccer.

[lungs]

Do you get cable in your car?

I have a satellite dish mounted on it that I steal satellite signals with.

Getting cable would be a clusterfuck with all those wires and stuff and probably harder to steal.

[Ksyrup]

Well, I think a fair number of people (myself included) think this might be a first step towards a true "World Series" at some point. Or perhaps this itself will eventually be as big as the World Cup is to soccer.

I realize I'm out of step with most people on this, but that wouldn't interest me in the least. It's still ignoring the league setup, and that's really all I care about. And, it's putting nationality above all, and that's bothersome to me. Even taking the World Series winner and pitting that team against the Japanese league champ or in a tournament like that, would be overkill and completely unnecessary in my mind. I wouldn't care who won and I wouldn't watch it.

[ISiddiqui]

Jeff Francoeur is starting?! A guy who will be lucky to have a job other than coming off the bench by mid-season is in our OF?

Wha? Do you know anything about Francouer? I can guarentee you he won't be 'coming off the bench' anytime soon. In fact, I think there is a pretty good chance he'll be an All-Star this year.

[ISiddiqui]

Don't impact my favorite sport with meaningless international competitions.

Not only is it meaningful for the fans, it is far more meaningful for the PLAYERS than regular season baseball. Chipper Jones was throwing up before the first game the US played because he was so nervous. They really liked the competition and it held meaning for them.

And it ain't like this is going away anytime soon. 2009, IIRC, is the next one, and it'll just continue to gain in popularity. Can't stop the train.

[ISiddiqui]

Triple Dola

Btw, it seems that the games are a financial success as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Baseball_Classic

Though international ratings figures were not yet available, viewership is expected to be high, ESPN spokeswoman Diane Lamb said. In addition, there have been 4,000 media credentials issued -- more than the World Series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Series) and the Olympics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympics) -- which bodes well for the stated goal of internationalizing the sport. Sportswriter Tom Verducci (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tom_Verducci&action=edit) reported that "[m]ore merchandise was sold in the first round than organizers projected for the entire 17-day event." [14] (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/tom_verducci/03/14/wbc.classic/1.html) He also reported that, at one point, jerseys for the Venezuelan team were selling at the rate of one every six seconds.

Bodes well for its success :)

[st.cronin]

Shouldn't three posts in a row be a 'double dola?'

[ISiddiqui]

Oops.. well I thought I did 4 posts in a row... nevermind.

[f1newyork]

I don't buy this. The Korea alltime homerun king "The Lion King" guy Yeon Sup Lee, has 6 homers and is killing the ball in this tournament. But, when he came he to spring training in the states and tried out for a couple of teams he couldn't make the cut. He then went ove rto Japan bragging he would break the record in Japan for Homeruns and couldn't make it ou tof the minor leagues. This is just one example of the level of talent outside of the Major Leagues. If a guy has the talent 9 times out of 10 he is over here not back in Maldives playing ball.

Lee hit .260 with 30 HR's and 82 RBI's for last years Japanese champions. I don't have his Japan series numbers but supposedly he hit extremely well and got a big contract with the Yomiuri Giants. He's not a minor leaguer.

[Ksyrup]

Not only is it meaningful for the fans, it is far more meaningful for the PLAYERS than regular season baseball. Chipper Jones was throwing up before the first game the US played because he was so nervous. They really liked the competition and it held meaning for them.

And it ain't like this is going away anytime soon. 2009, IIRC, is the next one, and it'll just continue to gain in popularity. Can't stop the train.

That's fine. Like I said, I recognize I'm in the minority on this issue, just like the Olympics. Doesn't mean I can't wish the whole idea a horrible death. I just don't see anything remotely meaningful about these games. Maybe from a business standpoint, I do, but not the games themselves.

[Ksyrup]

Wha? Do you know anything about Francouer? I can guarentee you he won't be 'coming off the bench' anytime soon. In fact, I think there is a pretty good chance he'll be an All-Star this year.

Hahahahaha! This is a guy who had 8 non-intentional walks in 257 ABs last year. As a result:

• Jeff Francoeur's OPS by month -- 1.326, .878, .739, .222

Those are the numbers of a guy who isn't headed towards an all-star appearance. I'd put his chances of being benched at some point during the season higher than the chances of him making the all-star game. But who knows. If he can learn to take a pitch or three, maybe he'll be something more than a flash in the pan.

[st.cronin]

I would say that in any given year, the Japanese champs would have a pretty decent chance of beating the "World Series" champs in a best of seven.

you can't possibly be serious

the Japanese league is about AAA level ... their champ would have a decent chance of not getting swept in a seven game series ... is that you meant?

[ISiddiqui]

He had 9 at bats in October, so throw the last one out. Yes his OPS went down from when he came into the league, but Francouer showed some good power in his rookie year (and a pretty good OBP in his first two months). He hit a slump in the final month, but has been very good in the minors (the Braves' top prospect). He'll be fine.

[heybrad]

Not only is it meaningful for the fans, it is far more meaningful for the PLAYERS than regular season baseball. Chipper Jones was throwing up before the first game the US played because he was so nervous. They really liked the competition and it held meaning for them.
When you have players who are saying they have a sore shoulder, but that if it were the regular season, they'd be playing, I think that clearly shows that it's not that important to them.

[Ksyrup]

He had 9 at bats in October, so throw the last one out. Yes his OPS went down from when he came into the league, but Francouer showed some good power in his rookie year (and a pretty good OBP in his first two months). He hit a slump in the final month, but has been very good in the minors (the Braves' top prospect). He'll be fine.

He had a pretty good OBP because he was hitting .350 into late August. Once teams figured out he wouldn't take a pitch, they started pitching him differently and his numbers dropped. In September/October combined, he hit .247 with 4 HRs and an OBP of .287. He hit 6 HRs in his first 48 ABs, then 8 HRs in the remaining 200+ ABs. I'm sorry, I just can't get away from a 58/11 K/BB ratio. He might turn it around, but I suspect he's going to continue to struggle before he gets better.

[ISiddiqui]

I'm sorry, I just can't get away from a 58/11 K/BB ratio.

So do you sit around every year and pretend Alfonso Soriano doesn't exist? :cool:

[Ksyrup]

So do you sit around every year and pretend Alfonso Soriano doesn't exist? :cool:

Precisely my point. Talk about overrated. Assuming he plays for Washington, be prepared to see his numbers take a dip. And because he can't get on base all that often, he won't be worth nearly as much, despite his power.

He could be worse - he could have weak/average powr - but I argued at the time and still maintain, that at $10M a year and factoring in the ballparks, he's a far worse deal (even happily playing 2B) than Brad Wilkerson.

[ISiddiqui]

Soriano had an 110 OPS+ last year. Wilkerson had a 104 (though career averages are both at 111). Besides Wilkerson is more of a leadoff type than Soriano (a middle of the order type). Soriano has power and can steal you a base without getting caught often (30 SB for 2 CS last season). Contrary to what people (including myself) were saying, his lack of patience has not doomed him. He seems to be doing very well in spite of it (or perhaps his aggressive batting with leads to less walks leads to more power).

[Ksyrup]

Have you seen his home/away splits for the 2 years he was in Texas? Here are his BA, OBP, and SLG:

2004:
Home - .317/.360/.526
Away - .244/.291/.444

2005:
Home - .315/.355/.656
Away - .224/.265/.374

And here's an interesting look at his offensive potential in Washington, which is about in line with what I think we'll see. Even if the ballparks aren't a huge factor, his number will slide. Assuming he's still a second baseman, these numbers aren't bad, but combined with his fielding (or alternatively, if these are your LF's numbers), he's not worth the huge number he got in arbitration, IMO.

Alfonso Soriano's Washington Projection

Now that Alfonso Soriano will be playing half his games at RFK Stadium, he'll become a .220 hitting outfielder capable of 20 HRs at most, right? I don't think so. Let's take a closer look the freshly traded Soriano and see if we can project his 2006.

It's widely assumed that Soriano is a product of Ameriquest Field. I used to agree with that, but I've changed my mind after looking at the numbers. His detractors will point to his 2005 road stats: .224 with 11 HR and 31 RBI in 326 at-bats. That comes out to 23 HR and 66 RBI over a full season.

There's a problem with extrapolating 326 road at-bats into a full season. The sample size is too small. Sori had a shaky .244 average on the road again in 2004, but his road power numbers translated to 35 HR and 96 RBI.
<SCRIPT type=text/javascript><!--google_ad_client = "pub-0166880705926637";google_ad_width = 468;google_ad_height = 60;google_ad_format = "468x60_as";google_ad_type = "text_image";google_ad_channel ="";google_color_border = "FFFFFF";google_color_bg = "FFFFFF";google_color_link = "000000";google_color_url = "000000";google_color_text = "000000";//--></SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js" type=text/javascript></SCRIPT>
Besides sample size, there's the fact that Soriano's ballparks didn't really affect his production much in his career. Say whaaaaat? Here's the deal: neither Yankee Stadium nor Ameriquest Field boosts the numbers of a right-handed hitter significantly. Yankee Stadium is completely neutral for a righty's batting average and lends maybe a 1% boost to a righty's homers. While Ameriquest has a considerable effect on a left-handed hitter's home run total, it only boosts a righty's by 6%. It gives the same 6% boost for batting average.

RFK, however, will hurt Soriano. It'll suppress his average by 14% and his HRs by 24%.

It's already tough to maintain a .280 average with no plate discipline. I think a continued decline plus RFK will result in Soriano hitting .252 in 2006.

I think Soriano's baseline number of HRs would be about 31 in a neutral ballpark. Factoring RFK and fewer at-bats, I expect that to be knocked down to 24. The RBIs and runs will be down, as the Nationals don't have the fearsome lineups Soriano enjoyed in New York and Texas.

I've got Soriano down for 604 at-bats in '06. He won't be hitting near the top of the order, and the Nationals have a much weaker offense than the Rangers.

He'll play second base, as a source of mine suggested (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2005/12/nationals_snag_.html) when the deal broke. No reason to expect him to slow down on the basepaths.

Final projection:
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 291pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=386 border=0><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 39pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1901" width=52><COL style="WIDTH: 38pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1828" width=50><COL style="WIDTH: 44pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2121" width=58><COL style="WIDTH: 46pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2230" width=61><COL style="WIDTH: 45pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2194" width=60><COL style="WIDTH: 38pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1865" width=51><COL style="WIDTH: 41pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1974" width=54></COLGROUP><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 39pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=52 height=17>AB</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50>H</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: windowtext; WIDTH: 44pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=58>AVG</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: windowtext; WIDTH: 46pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=61>HR</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: windowtext; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=60>RBI</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=51>R</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: windowtext; WIDTH: 41pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=54>SB</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>604</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: windowtext; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">152</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: windowtext; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.25217391304347825" x:fmla="=B2/A2">0.252</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: windowtext; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">24</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: windowtext; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">80</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: windowtext; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">74</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: windowtext; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">29</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

That kind of production is still very valuable from a second baseman, but you'd better have Albert Pujols on your team to balance out a possible damaging batting average.
Thanks to Chris Needham of the fine Nationals blog Capitol Punishment (http://dcbb.blogspot.com/). Chris lent valuable insight on Soriano's projected AB total, which was subsequently reduced by about 15%.

hxxp://www.rotoauthority.com/washington_nationals/index.html

[ISiddiqui]

he's not worth the huge number he got in arbitration, IMO.

He didn't deserve his arbitration number, but then, I don't think any 2B does (not even Utley, if he can continue doing what he does). However, he can hit for power and steal bases without getting caught (thereby making his SB worthwile), when people were predicting he'd be out of a starting position by now.

[cthomer5000]

anyone else watching Japan-Korea?

Ichiro seems determined, man...

[cthomer5000]

Great game so far. The Japanese left fielder just made an amazing play, jumping into the left field corner wall to grab a deep fly ball that had gone foul. It's obvious they arent' takign this game lightly.

[ISiddiqui]

I did make a WBC Semis thread, but oh well... both defenses are top notch.

[Crapshoot]

Yeah, that Japanese OF defense - wow.

[Crapshoot]

Aha, that's funny - they just had the Roger Clemens commercial, where he says he doesn't want anyone to beat the Americans at their own game, and how he'll be there for his country. Gold.

[ISiddiqui]

I love it when Clemens comes off looking like an ass :D. I chuckled as well... though I'd like to see Korea win so Ichiro has egg on his face as well, when he said before the tourney that they'd reestablish that Japan was the best in Asia.

[ISiddiqui]

Wow... Japan goes up ahead 2-0 in the 7th!

[kingfc22]

LOL!!! B.Y. Kim gives up a 2 run jack. Was there any doubt he would give Japan the lead.

[ISiddiqui]

Kim is self destructing. I guess that jives with his professional career.

[ISiddiqui]

WOW... Kim is giving this game to Japan

[cthomer5000]

This has got to sting for Korea, having already beaten Japan twice before, and having been undefeated up to this point.

[Galaril]

Lee hit .260 with 30 HR's and 82 RBI's for last years Japanese champions. I don't have his Japan series numbers but supposedly he hit extremely well and got a big contract with the Yomiuri Giants. He's not a minor leaguer.

I wasn't up on his stats this past season, sorry. He was rotting the minor leagues in Japan in 2004. It wouldn't have been so bad if it wasn't for the guy and his sports agent firm were saying how he was going to dominate Japanese baseball.

[ISiddiqui]

I was up on his stats this past season, sorry. He was rotting the minor leagues in Japan in 2004. It wouldn't have been so bad if it wasn't for the guy and his sports agent firm were saying how he was going to dominate Japanese baseball.

Seeing his stats last year, I think it indicates the Japanese bias against foriegners, especially Koreans. For someone to hit 30 HRs in their first full season in a league to have been 'rotting in the minors' beforehand is quite strange.

[IwasHere]

Why is Puerto Rico so good? Because of all of the major league talent on their team. That's why this arbitrary "X country's players versus Y country's players" crap is silly. And why you are completely missing the fact that NEARLY ALL OF THE OTHER COUNTRY'S BEST PLAYERS DO PLAY IN THE US, which is what makes the Majors clearly superior to these games.

Interesting, so you are saying a team with Zero Major Leaguers on it, Like Cuba, would have no chance at all?

LOL.... Have you seen who is playing in the finals?

[ISiddiqui]

Isn't it interesting that in the Finals there are TWO MLB players? Ichiro and Otsuka. Both Japan and Cuba have some very good talent that probably could do very well in the majors today, though because of different constraints for each, aren't there.

[Ksyrup]

A. Cuba is a special exception, and you know it. If that country was typical like the Dominican and Puerto Rico, most of those guys would at least be in MLB farm systems, and some would be in the Majors.

B. Japan is one of only a couple countries with baseball leagues anywhere near half as competitive as ours, so it makes sense that they would still field a strong team. Still doesn't mean any of those other players are MLB-worthy, though. I don't see the connection.

[ISiddiqui]

But the fact remains that they aren't in the majors and you wouldn't get to see them, and how they fare against major league talent, aside from this tourney.

[Galaril]

This has got to sting for Korea, having already beaten Japan twice before, and having been undefeated up to this point.


Apparently, the korean media nad alot of folks online in Korea are calling it an "American Conspiracy" I shit you not lol. The stories are all in Korean but the rigth now but the jist is the wind that was blowing in dies down and allowed the japanese hitters to get the homeruns. I know this is illogical since Korean players also get this advantage. The rain delay also supposedly was an advantage for Japan. This supposedly was all brought on by "The Americans" which ones? it doesn't matter I guess. Anyways the other gripe is the single elimination in round 2 and that Korea had to play Japan three times. Ah, gotta love nationalism.

[MrBug708]

Wha? Do you know anything about Francouer? I can guarentee you he won't be 'coming off the bench' anytime soon. In fact, I think there is a pretty good chance he'll be an All-Star this year.

He's a terrible, terrible outfielder (in spite of having a great arm) and now he's mirred in a slump which doesn't appear to be coming to a close any time soon because he has no idea what a strike is at the plate. Send him down and let him learn some plate discipline, and how to become a serviceable major league outfielder.