Soccer: USA vs. Germany

[Crapshoot]

Should be a good one. Jurgen Klinsmann needs this win - badly.

[kingfc22]

Game is on ESPN2 at 11:20 AM PST today. Just a heads up for all the soccer fans on the board.

Unfortunately I'll be at work and will have to Tivo the game.

[ice4277]

Damn, I forgot it was on and forgot to set the DVR. Oh well.

[TazFTW]

Horrible.

[GoldenEagle]

Three goals in 19 minutes? What the hell happened? I know this is a depleted squad, but what the hell?

[GoldenEagle]

Dola,

Make that 4-0. How fucking embarrasing.

Fire Bruce now.

[TazFTW]

WTF?

[GoldenEagle]

By the way, the Big Soccer meltdown should be very fun to watch.

[gstelmack]

4-0 who? Is USA going down bigtime? Is that #5 ranking in danger?

[vyshka]

3 goals in the span of 6 minutes (73rd through 79th minute). It would be interesting to hear what happened from someone who saw the game. Did the Germans find something to exploit in Arena's tactics, or did the back 4 and Keller just really screw up?

[bbor]

Deutchland uber alles!

[JeeberD]

Deutchland uber alles!

Ja, du hast rechts, mein freund!

[Crapshoot]

I gotta believe there were some mixups there- that's a performance worthy of Birmingham City. :D

[marshall881]

Berhalter and Conrad played there way out of the Cup.

[MrBug708]

Too bad about Conrad. He's an alum of my HS

[fantastic flying froggies]

Once again proof that these FIFA rankings are a joke...

Also, keep in mind this German squad is supposed to be a relatively weak side, by their standard anyway.

[Crapshoot]

Well yeah - no one takes FIFA seriously, but this wasn't the strongest American team either - the Germans still had Ballack and co - its not a fair reflection on them.
That being said, I still believe that the Americans getting out of the 1st group of the World Cup will constitute a significant achievement.

[marshall881]

The first half was even. The tide turned in the second when Germany brought on Neuville and Schweinsteiger.
Plus we were without Donovan, Beasley, or Reyna.

Convey played really well today however, and may have cemented his spot on the roster.

[AlexB]

...Convey played really well today however, and may have cemented his spot on the roster.

He's been on fire for Reading this year...

[Jonathan Ezarik]

The first half was even.

Technically true since the score was 0-0, but Germany was the better side in the first half (despite what the ESPN announcers were saying).

The Germans had more possession but couldn't get a decent cross in. If they get just a couple decent crosses in, they would have been up by a couple of goals at the half. They also seemed to be really nervous. Too many times they had the ball in the US zone but no one was making any kind of run to get open. Just standing around waiting for someone else to do something.

That all changed in the second half, though, and the score reflects that. Once the Germans got a couple goals in, they were more relaxed and they picked the US apart.

I think the only US player who played well was Gibbs. Convey was decent, but too many times his first touch resulted in a turnover.

[Havok]

considering we are missing like 6 or 7 starters(and our 5 best players), im ok with this.

Germany had just about its entire team there. Minus a couple who play in the England.

[GoldenEagle]

Once again proof that these FIFA rankings are a joke...

Also, keep in mind this German squad is supposed to be a relatively weak side, by their standard anyway.

This was a relatively weak American side, by our standards anyway.

[MIJB#19]

But Germany has no real starters, aside from Kahn, Ballack and a player or two, so this should still counts as a humiliating loss. Losing ain't bad, especially not in the phase of testing the #15-30 players for the team, but 4-0 against modern era Germany?

And in a way, when a loss is humiliating, it says something about the expected result before the game. Given circumstances, I think a 1-1 draw would have been normal.

[GoldenEagle]

But Germany has no real starters, aside from Kahn, Ballack and a player or two, so this should still counts as a humiliating loss. Losing ain't bad, especially not in the phase of testing the #15-30 players for the team, but 4-0 against modern era Germany?

And in a way, when a loss is humiliating, it says something about the expected result before the game. Given circumstances, I think a 1-1 draw would have been normal.

Eurosnob alert.

[Crapshoot]

Eurosnob alert.

yes, god forbid it means that the team performed like shit - it must be the "Eurosnob."

[Havok]

so this should still counts as a humiliating loss.


huh... its a friendly for god sake. Humiliating?? lol whatever.

Im no soccer guru, but whats wrong with 'Modern Era Germany'. They're the top seed in their group in the World Cup........ Only 7 other teams can make that claim. Can't be that bad.

[Crapshoot]

huh... its a friendly for god sake. Humiliating?? lol whatever.

Im no soccer guru, but whats wrong with 'Modern Era Germany'. They're the top seed in their group in the World Cup........ Only 7 other teams can make that claim. Can't be that bad.

yeah, but its based on a FIFA system that is... shite. Germany's really not a top tier team these days.

[Critch]

huh... its a friendly for god sake. Humiliating?? lol whatever.

Im no soccer guru, but whats wrong with 'Modern Era Germany'. They're the top seed in their group in the World Cup........ Only 7 other teams can make that claim. Can't be that bad.

They're seeds because they are the host nation, just like Japan and South Korea being seeded last time for being hosts.

Germany has been having a tough time recently, other than Ballack and an aging Kahn they dont have the class they used to have. The young hopes Schweinsteiger and Podolski both havent had great seasons, so they're at a bit of a low.

The German press is down on their team too, particularly the coach Klinsmann who could have been fired if they'd lost today. They got humped 4-1 in their last friendly v Italy, they've lost to Slovakia and Turkey and up til today they'd only won two of their seven World Cup warmup games (home to South Africa and China, nothing to shout about).

At the risk of being called a Euro-snob, I'd say today wasn't a great result for the US so late in the buildup.

[Vince]

Eurosnob alert.

Yeah, I'd say that Matthijs is about as far from a Eurosnob as you can get.

[GoldenEagle]

MIJB is always poking fun at the US squad. You may not be able to pick up on it, but he is. Others have noticed too. Just because he is in the IHOF or whatever does not mean he is immune to being ignorant about US soccer.

The squad that was on the field during the second half will be a fraction of what we see in the World Cup. The team had no cohesion at all. We were missing our two best central midfielders which is a disaster for any team.

I am not saying I am happy with the performance. We have a lot of work to do before getting ready for the World Cup. But Germany had all of their domestic players available. You basically had some MLS players against Bundesliga players in middle season form.

[RPI-Fan]

Yes, it was a bad performance.

But MIJB is so far out of line it is ridiculous.

Germany ran out an A- team. USA ran out a C or C+ team. A 1-1 draw in Germany would have been a great result for the USA and awful for Germany. MIJB is totally clueless as to US soccer. You really should stop posting about it because your ignorance just becomes clearer each time you do.

For 70 minutes the US ran with the Germans and could very well have been in a tie game were it not for super-goalie Kahn. Keller misplayed that first goal (although it was a difficult play to be sure) -- not that he SHOULD have had it, but the Keller we had in qualifying makes that play.

Ching was "marking" on that first goal and looked absolutely lost. Conrad and Berhalter were nearby also. Those two absolutely collapsed as the second half progressed. Thankfully, they're well, well down on our depth chart. I think Bruce would play Pablo at centerback before either of those two (after today's performance where they just showed no ability to play in a game of pressure).


So, in short, MIJB is totally wrong, as usual. USA didn't play as well as they could have with an supremely undermanned team, Germany did exactly what they needed and were expected to do with their A-team, and to quote Kasey Keller "a good ass-kicking might be exactly what we needed".


~rpi-fan

[Havok]

I think thats the 'Western Euro-Syndrom'... bash everything American, reguardless of what it is :) :)

[Desnudo]

MIJB is always poking fun at the US squad. You may not be able to pick up on it, but he is. Others have noticed too. Just because he is in the IHOF or whatever does not mean he is immune to being ignorant about US soccer.

The squad that was on the field during the second half will be a fraction of what we see in the World Cup. The team had no cohesion at all. We were missing our two best central midfielders which is a disaster for any team.

I am not saying I am happy with the performance. We have a lot of work to do before getting ready for the World Cup. But Germany had all of their domestic players available. You basically had some MLS players against Bundesliga players in middle season form.

I've picked up on it. It's fine to the extent that I think it's a general European sentiment rather than a personal vendetta against the US soccer team. Anyway, it's a friendly, it mattered to Germany a lot more, it was in Germany, end of story.

[kingfc22]

Just finished watching the game and although the result looks bad, what more could you expect after seeing the lineup we trotted out there.

We probably had maybe 2-3 guys that will play significant minutes in the WC out on the field and we still were only down 1-0 after 70 minutes.

The last 3 goals were allowed by horrible defensive plays and those guys will NOT be on the final roster.

[Havok]

Thats what i was saying earlier.... literally like 6 out of our top 8 players didn't even play. Hell maybe more......

Beasley
Lando
Onyewu
McBride
Reyna
Bocanegra
Lewis (who i think will be our LB)

the list is endless

Im not saying we're some kind of World soccer power.... but give us a break already. Todays game ment Z E R O to us.

[daedalus]

I didn't see the game but, based on my talks with Matthijs, I would say he is far from a Eurosnob. He is equally critical of any team, include the Dutch national team (if not more so on the Dutch team), that does not play well.

I don't know about this specific game but, in the past, I have not been particularly impressed with the US backline and their ability to clear the ball.

[Vince]

Well, then, carry on. Mayhap he doesn't know anything about soccer, but 'Eurosnob' seems to be a pretty harsh term that applies to more than just soccer.

[condors]

I think the us team needs Beasley and Donovan with their pace and ability on the ball it puts defenses under pressure, McBride as a target man also causes problems for defenses which we were sorely lacking (i think Johnson could cause problems but our midfield was sorely lacking and got worse when pablo came out for olsen)

[MIJB#19]

Eurosnob? I have no idea what that means, but for someone who's been trying to support in stead of bash on US soccer, I'm not so happy with the sound of it.

When I point out that a 1-1 draw would be a normal result for a C team from the USA against Germany's A team, tell me: where does that bash US soccer?

[AlexB]

FWIW I think both the pro-US soccer team posts and MIJB & FFF have points here.

From what you guys say (and the newspaper reports), this was a half strength US team at best, but the Germans were also missing starters including Deisler, Frings & Huth - key players for them. So relative strength were pretty even, with maybe the German side a touch closer to their starting XI.

But both sides will have learned something - by all accounts some of the fringe US players didn't exactly enhance their chances of making the squad, and Germany learned that they can win a non-competitive game (they are traditionally a tournament team - poor in friendlies, but often over-perform in the WC/EC - see Japan 2002).

I watched the first half hour, and this period was terrible from both sides tbh - a horrible game: after this I switched to the start of Chelsea vs. Newcastle.

The defeat was not necessarily humiliating, but definitely a blow, as Germany are far from the strongest European team, let alone close to Brazil or Argentina. Both Italy and the Czech Republic are stronger teams than Germany, and this result should at least warn the US team that they need to play a lot better in the WC if they are to get to the knockout stages.

I did read a further worrying stat about the US team against European opposition:

The Americans were missing about half their projected World Cup starting lineup because of injuries and club commitments, and they dropped to 0-9 in Europe against the major soccer powers of Germany, England, Italy, France and Spain. They've been outscored 26-4 in those games.


Granted, a lot of these games I assume would have seen the US not at full-strength, but I would imagine much like the England game last year, the reverse is also true in a lot of cases.

And just for balance, has anyone read the article in 442 about the USA 1 England 0 game in the 1950 WC? Fascinating read, and a tragic end for the goalscorer...

[RPI-Fan]

You guys are missing the point. The US wasn't missing "a few" starters.

We were missing ALMOST every starter.

Cherundolo, Keller, and EJ were the only likely starters for the WC (and I don't think EJ will be playing, either). At central defense we had our 4th/5th options. At D-mid it was our 3rd/4th options. Ching is 5th on the striker depth chart.

Not only did we not have our starters, we didn't even have our backups in there.

And to the person who said the first half hour was awful, I totally disagree. It was a good, fast-paced game with quick counterattacking.

[MIJB#19]

Then you are ignorant yourself, RPI-Fan.

If you actually followed world soccer, you'd know that Germany has been playing aweful the past 4 years and that Jurgen Klinsmann's job was on the line yesterday. When a coach's job is on the line in a friendly, it says a lot.

Fact is that Klinsmann has very few players to select from, there's Michael Ballack and the 2002 repuation of Oliver Kahn. The German league is overcrowded with foreign players, the entire country is on Klinsi's back (only 2% of the population sees Germany as potential World Champion) and even the national politics has been on a mission to score over his team's lack of results.

It's nice to blame Klinsi, but that won't change the lack of German players. Based on reputation, the 'rest of Europe' fears Germany for their last minute goal ability, but it was very reasonable to expect them to have gone out in the first round at the World Cup, had they not been drawn in the 'group of life' (as the opposite of 'group of death').

And as Jari Rantanen's Shorts said, it's not a good sign if your backups lose 4-1 to what should be an equally strong team. Especially not 2 months before the tournament starts.

[Critch]

I don't see what's eurosnobbery about what MIJB said, he said that it was a bad result for the US against a poor German team and that the US should have been looking for a draw.

Not like he called it a f-ing embaressment and called for the manager to be fired or anything.

[Butter]

I thought Convey was about the only player worth a damn on the field for the US. God help us if any of those players are pressed into duty in the actual World Cup.

[Crapshoot]

The irony of course is that MIJB is Dutch. The biggest Dutch rivals are probably the Germans - I'm not sure he's likely to overstate their cause. If anything, I get the impression that some of the Americans here get overly sensitive when someone suggests that the team isn't top notch. Yes, they were clearly missing Donovan, McBride and Beasley, but this team has one geniune top class player- and that's Keller. I'm neither European or American (the Indian soccer team is somewhere in the nethers of the rankings, a rare accuracy on the part of FIFA :D), but this is bashing the messanger, not the message.

[Crapshoot]

I thought Convey was about the only player worth a damn on the field for the US. God help us if any of those players are pressed into duty in the actual World Cup.

Convey will get his chance to impress in the EPL next year - by all accounts, he's one of the primary reasons for Reading's walkthrough the premiership.

[marshall881]

The result was disappointing but I think Arena got what he wanted out of the match. He was able to find out who can not cut it at that level. Figuring out his final roster got a whole lot easier after yesterday.

The germans as a team had so much more to play for yesterday than we did.

[Klinglerware]

So what are the chances of Gibbs, Ching, or Twellman making the squad?

[Butter]

I think Twellman has a good shot, but I don't think he should make it. He had one good scoring game against a fairly bad team, and otherwise has done zero despite being given repeated chances to show something. I don't know about the other 2.

[ISiddiqui]

I don't see what's eurosnobbery about what MIJB said, he said that it was a bad result for the US against a poor German team and that the US should have been looking for a draw.

Not like he called it a f-ing embaressment and called for the manager to be fired or anything.

Yeah, those are the... Amerisnobs? Who call to fire Arena after every bad result.

Crapshoot is right too. There are a number of US fans who get highly defensive at ANY criticism of the US National Team and respond with "Eurosnob" and crap like that.

[Senator]

They think it's over!

[gstelmack]

Crapshoot is right too. There are a number of US fans who get highly defensive at ANY criticism of the US National Team and respond with "Eurosnob" and crap like that.

We Americans are very protective of our right to criticize other Americans. "The only person who is allowed to pick on my baby brother is me!"

[marshall881]

So what are the chances of Gibbs, Ching, or Twellman making the squad?

I think that Gibbs and Twellman have a decent shot. Both should get another look against Jamaica.

Ching has played his way off the squad I would think.

[bbor]

Speaking as a German(well...German-Canadian as it is)i can trythfully say i would be surprised if the Germans do any damage in the WC.I was very much shocked at how well they did in the last WC as i thought they were an aging group then with few young players on the way up.I see them as much the same squad this time around,and i can tell you the people of the host nation are very nervous as to how well the team will do.

[moriarty]

If anything I think this highlights the lack of depth of the American team. Yeah, our first 11 - 14 players might be pretty good (albeit lacking in superstars), but we are still way behind other countries in terms of depth. I mean if McBride or EJ get injured do we really have anyone else that can play striker at the international level other than Donovan? And if Reyna can't perform, who is going to be our key central midfielder? I'd love to see the US team do well at the WC, but we're really dependent on a few folks being healthy.

Like it not, the 4-1 score is a bit of an embarrasment to the US program. How many soccer fans around the world really know/care whether we sent out our B/C team or not? All they know is a German team that got whipped by Italy, beat us bad 4-1. In a sport where the USA team is constantly striving for international respect, a poor outcome even in a friendly, is an embarrasment. Of course it's nothing that a strong WC performance can't overcome.

[Butter]

I'd love to see the US team do well at the WC, but we're really dependent on a few folks being healthy.

You can say this about virtually any country in the tournament, though.

[moriarty]

You can say this about virtually any country in the tournament, though.

Perhaps, but take England. Say Owen and (gasp) Rooney are injured. In step Crouch and Defoe. A step down, you bet. But both have proven they can play and score at the interational level and either would obviously start for USA. We would bring in Twellman/Ching?

In the midfield they have Gerrard, Beckham, Lampard, & Cole. Should they go down, they have more than capable players such as Carrick, Jenas and others who consistently play at a top level and in international competitions. That certainly beats a Pablo Mastroeni or Steve Ralston.

(note: England might have been a bad example as they seem awfully dependent on having a healthy Rooney).

[BYU 14]

Perhaps, but take England. Say Owen and (gasp) Rooney are injured. In step Crouch and Defoe. A step down, you bet. But both have proven they can play and score at the interational level and either would obviously start for USA. We would bring in Twellman/Ching?

In the midfield they have Gerrard, Beckham, Lampard, & Cole. Should they go down, they have more than capable players such as Carrick, Jenas and others who consistently play at a top level and in international competitions. That certainly beats a Pablo Mastroeni or Steve Ralston.

(note: England might have been a bad example as they seem awfully dependent on having a healthy Rooney).

England definitely has one of the deepest pool of midfielders to pull from in the tournament.......Our lack of quality depth was painfully obvious in the Germany friendly.

[ISiddiqui]

Yep wrt to England's MF. I mean if Beckham goes down, Lampard slides over to the right and Carrick comes in (and with the emphasis on defense, maybe a better English team). If both Gerrard and Lampard go down, Carrick and Beckham can play in the middle and have Shawn Wright-Phillips on the right. Or bring in Jenas or Parker to play the other central MF spot.

Depth is necessary, unless you have an amazing injuryless run. The US doesn't have that sort of depth. The US looses someone like Donovan, and we could be fucked.

[Crapshoot]

(note: England might have been a bad example as they seem awfully dependent on having a healthy Rooney).

Aye - to quote F365, with Rooney, they can win the world cup. Without him, they'd make it to the quarters at the best.

A better example might in fact be Brazil (but that's unfair) or the Spanish - up front, they go with Torres and Raul, but injuries to those guys mean that Villa/Reyes will step up - there's a limited fall. In the midfield, there are Valeron, Xavi, Joaquin, and Vicente- an injury means they go to Albelda/Barajas/Alonso, or Guti. In goal, an injury to Casillas means Valdez or Canizares - not much of a drop off. Spain can function without any one of those players IMO - the US without Keller (who's the one world-class player on the US team) is in grave danger, especially given that defense.

[Crapshoot]

Yep wrt to England's MF. I mean if Beckham goes down, Lampard slides over to the right and Carrick comes in (and with the emphasis on defense, maybe a better English team). If both Gerrard and Lampard go down, Carrick and Beckham can play in the middle and have Shawn Wright-Phillips on the right. Or bring in Jenas or Parker to play the other central MF spot.

Depth is necessary, unless you have an amazing injuryless run. The US doesn't have that sort of depth. The US looses someone like Donovan, and we could be fucked.

Sidenote: Lampard's ass should be on the bench to begin with - Carrick ought to be playing with Gerrard. Lampard thrives at Chelsea because he doesn't have to do the hard work in midfield (tracking back all the time, so forth). He's a great player- but 2 attacking central midfielders alongside an attacking left winger (Cole - who cuts in to the centre) is a recepie for disaster against a solid team like a Brazil or even a pacy Spanish team. I'm biased, but Gerrard is a better player than Lampard, and to give him the freedom to support the attack, you need Carrick or Scott Parker laying back in front of the defense for the sake of balance.

[Katon]

Oh, not this again. In order to give Gerrard the freedom to attack the way he wants to, you have to keep him out of central midfield - or at least not play him in a two-man central midfield. If he's playing his normal game from the middle then what you wind up with is a lot of surging runs that leave his partner standing all on his own badly outnumbered. There's a reason Liverpool got much better when Benitez switched to using him on the right or in the hole behind the lone striker. There's also a reason for that stat that under Houllier Liverpool had a better record without Gerrard than with him.

I also think you're underestimating Lampard's defensive abilities. He's definitely an AM, but he does work fairly hard - especially when Eidur Gudjohnsen's playing in the third midfield slot.

[ISiddiqui]

Sidenote: Lampard's ass should be on the bench to begin with - Carrick ought to be playing with Gerrard. Lampard thrives at Chelsea because he doesn't have to do the hard work in midfield (tracking back all the time, so forth). He's a great player- but 2 attacking central midfielders alongside an attacking left winger (Cole - who cuts in to the centre) is a recepie for disaster against a solid team like a Brazil or even a pacy Spanish team. I'm biased, but Gerrard is a better player than Lampard, and to give him the freedom to support the attack, you need Carrick or Scott Parker laying back in front of the defense for the sake of balance.

Bull. If we were deciding central MF, Lampard should get it over Gerrard. Gerrard plays just as much on the right side at Liverpool, and is far better there, then the center. Lampard is who you want for an attacking MF. It wasn't like Lampard was crap at West Ham because he didn't have Makalele. If we are talking about just the middle MF spots, I'd take Lampard over Gerrard any day. Gerrard would be far better off taking Beckham's spot.

[moriarty]

Bull. If we were deciding central MF, Lampard should get it over Gerrard. Gerrard plays just as much on the right side at Liverpool, and is far better there, then the center. Lampard is who you want for an attacking MF. It wasn't like Lampard was crap at West Ham because he didn't have Makalele. If we are talking about just the middle MF spots, I'd take Lampard over Gerrard any day. Gerrard would be far better off taking Beckham's spot.

I'd throw my hate in for Gerrard (not sure how/when this became an England thread, but I suppose it's my fault). He may line up on the right side of the lineup sheet for Liverpool, but truth be told he spends much more time in the central, or at least tucked in on the right, and tends to roam quite freely all over the pitch. Having said that I do feel he's going to be exhausted by the WC (he's played an unbelievable amount of matches this year, and seems to be slowing down a bit IMO - lots of carelesss turnovers lately).

I'd like to see Gerrard as the AMC, Lampard or Carrick as DMF (depending on whether you want a more offensive or defensive team) and utilize Becks/SWP on the right depending on whether the defensive leftback can be exposed by SWP's speed or not.

[AlexB]

No matter what preferences people here have, I guarantee that for our first WC game, assuming all are fit, the team is:

Robinson; G.Neville, Terry, Ferdinand (or possibly Campbell, but more likely Rio), A.Cole; Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, J.Cole; Rooney, Owen

The team simply picks itself, and Gerrard & Lampard have to work out that when one goes, the other stays. Hopefully they will get it - if not we will be in trouble against a good counter attacking side (please let's avoid Italy!)

[ISiddiqui]

LOL! @ moriarty's post below

damn timestamp bug :(

[moriarty]

The team simply picks itself, and Gerrard & Lampard have to work out that when one goes, the other stays. Hopefully they will get it - if not we will be in trouble against a good counter attacking side (please let's avoid Italy!)

See, if you weren't such a Eurosnob, you would realize the US will eliminate Italy for you.

:p :D

[Blade6119]

Back on topic, that was a nice header by EJ in the 2nd half...even better save by kahn, but nice to see EJ doing anything. I never got why ching kept getting shots with this team...i have never seen him play well, and he has played quite a few friendlies already. They should have brought in Wolff or cunningham and given them another look.

[Katon]

I'd throw my hate in for Gerrard
Oh come on, he's not that bad . . . :D

He may line up on the right side of the lineup sheet for Liverpool, but truth be told he spends much more time in the central, or at least tucked in on the right, and tends to roam quite freely all over the pitch.

Which is kind of my point. If you play Gerrard in a two-man central midfield, you have a simple choice: either stop him roaming around (which makes him much less of an offensive threat, to the point where I'd question whether he's even the best option), or leave his partner to cope with the other team's midfield entirely by himself. Because if he keeps charging forward, he's going to wind up too far upfield to track back effectively a decent amount of the time. Which is why you make sure you have two central midfielders who aren't wandering all over the place.

[Katon]

No matter what preferences people here have, I guarantee that for our first WC game, assuming all are fit, the team is:

Robinson; G.Neville, Terry, Ferdinand (or possibly Campbell, but more likely Rio), A.Cole; Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, J.Cole; Rooney, Owen

The team simply picks itself, and Gerrard & Lampard have to work out that when one goes, the other stays. Hopefully they will get it - if not we will be in trouble against a good counter attacking side (please let's avoid Italy!)

Well, yes, obviously that's going to be the team that actually plays (and given his current form I really hope it's not Campbell). Sven would always rather drop the big names a week too late than a week too soon. I'm just not convinced the midfield's the best we can do.

[Easy Mac]

Back on topic, that was a nice header by EJ in the 2nd half...even better save by kahn, but nice to see EJ doing anything. I never got why ching kept getting shots with this team...i have never seen him play well, and he has played quite a few friendlies already. They should have brought in Wolff or cunningham and given them another look.

wolff was there. he went out after 20 with an injury

[RPI-Fan]

...the US without Keller (who's the one world-class player on the US team) is in grave danger, especially given that defense.

Wrong again (why am I not surprised).

If Keller goes down Arena will be on the sideline with a cell phone talking to Brad and the problem will be solved.

[terpkristin]

From ESPNsoccernet (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=362574&cc=5901)...

Arena: Playing Germany was a mistake

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<!-- begin text11 div --> <!-- begin left column --> HAMBURG, Germany -- A day after his team's fiasco against Germany, U.S. coach Bruce Arena blamed himself for scheduling the game.<!-- 300x250 AD INSERTION --> <script language="JavaScript"> <!-- ord=Math.random(); ord=ord*10000000000000000000; if (inlineAdText!=null){ document.write('<table width=300 border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=5 align=right><tr><td><IFRAME WIDTH=300 HEIGHT=250 MARGINWIDTH=0 MARGINHEIGHT=0 HSPACE=0 VSPACE=0 FRAMEBORDER=0 SCROLLING=no BORDERCOLOR=#000000 SRC=""http://adsintl.starwave.com/html.ng/site=soccernet.espn.go.com&adsize=300x250&transactionID='+ord+'><SCR' + 'IPT LANGUAGE=JavaScript SRC=""http://adsintl.starwave.com/js.ng/Params.richmedia=yes&site=soccernet.espn.go.com&adsize=300x250&transactionID='+ord+'><\/SCR' + 'IPT></IFRAME><NOSCRIPT>http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/ (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/)</NOSCRIPT></td></tr></table>') } //--> </script> <!-- END 300x250 AD INSERTION -->
An undermanned American team was overwhelmed by the Germans 4-1 Wednesday night in Dortmund, and Arena didn't offer much encouragement in his assessment.
"We had anywhere from two to three first-team players playing, seven, eight, nine players fighting for a roster spot," he said after arriving Thursday in Hamburg, where the United States will be based during the tournament.
Because of injuries and club commitments, Landon Donovan, Brian McBride, Claudio Reyna, DaMarcus Beasley, Oguchi Onyewu and Eddie Lewis weren't with the U.S. team.
Arena's starting lineup included goalkeeper Kasey Keller, defender Steve Cherundolo and midfielder Pablo Mastroeni -- who all could be World Cup starters -- plus defenders Gregg Berhalter, Cory Gibbs and Jimmy Conrad; midfielder Kerry Zavagnin; and forwards Josh Wolff, Eddie Johnson and Brian Ching. Coming in as reserves were defender Heath Pearce; midfielders Chris Klein and Ben Olsen; and forward Taylor Twellman.
"I think there's some disappointment in some players because it was an opportunity for them to try to convince me that they belong on our roster for the World Cup," Arena said. "Most did not have a strong argument; some did."
Some of the regular starters weren't available because Wednesday wasn't set aside by FIFA as an international fixture date -- when all clubs must allow players to join national teams.
"We've worked real hard to build our team to where it is today, and to not prepare properly to play a game of that magnitude is a mistake, and I accept the full responsibility for that," Arena said. "If I felt that it wasn't the right time for us to play that game, I should have been a little bit strong in saying this is not the right time to play."
Keller gave up four goals in the second half and was upset at his team's performance against 22nd-ranked Germany, a soccer power that has struggled of late.
"I don't know what some our players thought, that they could just run around, do what they wanted to and Germany's players were just going to roll over and let you do that?" he said.
The United States, which has a No. 5 ranking that even it admits is misleading, has four remaining World Cup warmups, all at home and all against relatively weak opponents: No. 45 Jamaica (April 11 at Cary, N.C.), No. 37 Morocco (May 23 at Nashville, Tenn.), No. 70 Venezuela (May 26 at Cleveland) and No. 68 Latvia (May 28 at East Hartford, Conn.).
Against Jamaica, the roster is likely to be filled from players in Major League Soccer. Most of the Europe-based group will be available for the final three games.
Arena plans to narrow his potential roster to 30-33 following the Jamaica game, then announce his 23-man team about May 1, well before FIFA's May 15 deadline. The Americans leave June 1 for Germany and have first-round games against the Czech Republic, Italy and Ghana.
He was not too concerned about the latest injury to Reyna, who separated a shoulder last weekend playing for England's Manchester City. The U.S. captain is expected to be sidelined about a month.
"I think Claudio is fairly fit right now," Arena said. "Getting over the broken ankle was big. His ankle now is sound, so that's a positive. I think the shoulder separation is a temporary setback."
Arena chose Hamburg last July over Berlin and Munich. He said the northern port city, where the Beatles got their start, will suit his team well leading to the World Cup.
"When I stepped off the train in Hamburg, we could sense this was the right city for the American team, an exciting environment," he said. "This is a city that's very similar to cities in the United States, and I just think it's a perfect match. Great restaurants, a lot of entertainment, a lot of things to do, a great hotel, great training facilities. Everything we wanted was here."

[Crapshoot]

Wrong again (why am I not surprised).

If Keller goes down Arena will be on the sideline with a cell phone talking to Brad and the problem will be solved.

When was I wrong in the first place ? Viewing a 4-1 loss as irrelevant is the stupidity on your part, not mine. The drop off from Keller to Freidel isn't small - Freidel 3 years ago, was top notch, but he's not been at anywhere near that level - again, something you ought to know, but don't (shocking). I think Keller is the one guy who has the ability to keep the US in a game when the defense is absoltutely shit - Freidel is simply not as good. For what its worth, none of them are in the class of the
Lehmann/Castillas/Cech/Cudicini/Buffon/Robinson/Van Der Sar/Given/Reina/Valdes group to begin with, but Keller's closer than Freidel is.

[RPI-Fan]

When was I wrong in the first place ? Viewing a 4-1 loss as irrelevant is the stupidity on your part, not mine. The drop off from Keller to Freidel isn't small - Freidel 3 years ago, was top notch, but he's not been at anywhere near that level - again, something you ought to know, but don't (shocking). I think Keller is the one guy who has the ability to keep the US in a game when the defense is absoltutely shit - Freidel is simply not as good. For what its worth, none of them are in the class of the
Lehmann/Castillas/Cech/Cudicini/Buffon/Robinson/Van Der Sar/Given/Reina/Valdes group to begin with, but Keller's closer than Freidel is.

Oh, so it must be that OTHER Friedel who is guiding Blackburn to a Europe place?

[Crapshoot]

Oh, so it must be that OTHER Friedel who is guiding Blackburn to a Europe place?

Yes, its all Friedel. Using the idiotic logic that the GK is the one responsible for a team's place in the standings, is David James better than Shay Given? Hell, are you going to argue Friedel is better than Shay Given - because that would take a supreme act of faith. Do you even watch the EPL ? You think the style of play, the defense in front of a guy, etc might be a wee factor ?

I think Freidel is a good player, but to argue that he's one of the world's best is ridiculous. He's no 2 to Keller for a reason.

[RPI-Fan]

Yes, its all Friedel. Using the idiotic logic that the GK is the one responsible for a team's place in the standings, is David James better than Shay Given? Hell, are you going to argue Friedel is better than Shay Given - because that would take a supreme act of faith. Do you even watch the EPL ? You think the style of play, the defense in front of a guy, etc might be a wee factor ?

I think Freidel is a good player, but to argue that he's one of the world's best is ridiculous. He's no 2 to Keller for a reason.

You're making this easier and easier....

Keller is not number 2 to Keller. He's retired from international football on his own free will (but it's pretty clear that he'll be suited up if Keller can't go for some reason).

[Crapshoot]

You're making this easier and easier....

Keller is not number 2 to Keller. He's retired from international football on his own free will (but it's pretty clear that he'll be suited up if Keller can't go for some reason).

Aye, my mistake on the no 2 bit - you're right. That being said, your arguement for Freidel being a great goalie today is based on a slipshod arguement.

[Ryan S]

Oh, so it must be that OTHER Friedel who is guiding Blackburn to a Europe place?

I think Craig Bellamy and Morten Gamst Pedersen are probably the players guiding Blackburn to a European place.

[ISiddiqui]

No, you are wrong! It's all Friedel ;).

[Easy Mac]

I think Craig Bellamy and Morten Gamst Pedersen are probably the players guiding Blackburn to a European place.

I think we're a little closer to the action than you are mr. scot. We at least speak the same language:cheesy:

[Bisbo]

I think Twellman has a good shot of making the final roster; no way Ching does. I also thought Eddie Johnson had some good minutes out there.

The thing that most struck me about the game was the way Germany was all over us as soon as we touched the ball - seems we never had time to set up anything. They were constantly quicker to the ball than we were. I guess that's where guys like Beasley and Donovan would have made some difference.

I realize we were missing most of our starters, but that was a very disappointing result - brought back memories of Sampson in France.

[moriarty]

I think Twellman has a good shot of making the final roster; no way Ching does. I also thought Eddie Johnson had some good minutes out there.

The thing that most struck me about the game was the way Germany was all over us as soon as we touched the ball - seems we never had time to set up anything. They were constantly quicker to the ball than we were. I guess that's where guys like Beasley and Donovan would have made some difference.
.

Yeah, I think the US team is going to see that kind of ball pressure a lot in the WC. Our weakness IMO is our technical skill, our strength is our raw physical abilities. So the other teams would be wise to pressure the ball, and force turnovers not giving us free time and room to set up moves and utlilize our speed. That's why I think Reyna's health is so key to our midfield and our performance in general. He's one of our few players who is comfortable on the ball, and can still execute with WC level pressure/defenses.

[daedalus]

Speaking as a German(well...German-Canadian as it is)i can trythfully say i would be surprised if the Germans do any damage in the WC.I was very much shocked at how well they did in the last WC as i thought they were an aging group then with few young players on the way up.I see them as much the same squad this time around,and i can tell you the people of the host nation are very nervous as to how well the team will do.I wouldn't be. If Klose comes back (I haven't checked, will he be healthy by then?), then it'll be the same Ballack and Klose and pray for rain show (come up with your own damn rhyme) that can be really dangerous in close games. Especially if the goalkeeper (I'm not naming names since I'm curious if Mad Jens' form and big year can help him supplant Kahn and his rep . . . I'm betting on no, at the moment, especially with the WC being in Germany) comes up big.

[daedalus]

or the Spanish - up front, they go with Torres and Raul, but injuries to those guys mean that Villa/Reyes will step up - there's a limited fall. In the midfield, there are Valeron, Xavi, Joaquin, and Vicente- an injury means they go to Albelda/Barajas/Alonso, or Guti. In goal, an injury to Casillas means Valdez or Canizares - not much of a drop off. Spain can function without any one of those players IMOThe Spanish will need to see if Raul can get back in form before the WC. I also hope they don't put JAR up front since he's proven that he's not nearly as effective there.

Just nitpicking, of course. :)

[Crapshoot]

The Spanish will need to see if Raul can get back in form before the WC. I also hope they don't put JAR up front since he's proven that he's not nearly as effective there.

Just nitpicking, of course. :)

aye - but he'll play, no matter what.

[daedalus]

No matter what preferences people here have, I guarantee that for our first WC game, assuming all are fit, the team is:

Robinson; G.Neville, Terry, Ferdinand (or possibly Campbell, but more likely Rio), A.Cole; Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, J.Cole; Rooney, OwenWell, yeah. SGE doesn't deviate his lineup (only women and bosses).

I agree with Katon about Sol not being in the first XI. In fact, unless he finishes the year really strong, I'm not even sure about him being on the squad.

How is Woodgate doing at Real? Or is King the more likely 3rd/4th centreback?

[Then after the WC, he can follow Sol up the road. Yay! :D]

[daedalus]

aye - but he'll play, no matter what.True that, true that. :)

[AlexB]

Well, yeah. SGE doesn't deviate his lineup (only women and bosses).

I agree with Katon about Sol not being in the first XI. In fact, unless he finishes the year really strong, I'm not even sure about him being on the squad.

How is Woodgate doing at Real? Or is King the more likely 3rd/4th centreback?

[Then after the WC, he can follow Sol up the road. Yay! :D]

There was a line I read about Real's good form in Soain in February that sums Woody up: '...and even Jonathan Woodgate has managed to play two games in a row without picking up an injury'.

His fitness record is horrible - when he's fit he's class: I would put him above both Rio and Sol, but if he's in the party he could end up simply taking up a spot in the squad and occupying one of the physio's benches all tournament. Unless he comes back soon and plays every game to the end of the year I can't see him getting a place, and even if he does play every game his record means he is still only a maybe because of the inherent risk.

[AlexB]

I thought Convey was about the only player worth a damn on the field for the US. God help us if any of those players are pressed into duty in the actual World Cup.

Update for you on the Leicester vs. Reading game at the weekend. Bobby Convey started brightly when Reading were the better side for the 1st 15 minutes, had one good effort on goal, but basically disappeared once we got the upper hand. Even when Reading were back on top for the 2nd half, Convey was anonymous, and was subbed.

Hahnemann was in very good form - could no nothing about our goal, and saved two efforts that could easily have beaten him, including one late reaction save with his foot from a Joey Gudjonnson 45 yard free kick that moved about five times in the air! Was very impressed with his keeping tbh.