Redick or Morrison?

[Fouts]

I was reading this article on yahoo sports link (http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news;_ylt=As6dK1WkBj_cnZVBu_D67mM5nYcB?slug=dw-morrison032106&prov=yhoo&type=lgns) about Redick and Morrison and this caught my eye;

"Adam Morrison is a 20-point-a-game scorer in the NBA for a long, long time," one Western scout said. "The son of a bitch can score on anyone."

"He's like (Larry) Bird. He just finds a way to get the ball in the basket," a Southwest Division scout added.

"I've spent the last four months on the road, at least six games a week. If (Morrison) isn't the MVP, then they must be hiding the guy who is better," a Western scout said. "Morrison can do 10 things Redick couldn't dream of."


Any thoughts?

[bosshogg23]

Sporting News called Morrison a top 3 pick and Redick a 15-20 type pick. Seems to be the general consensus Morrison is a better NBA prospect(his size certainly helps).

[Swaggs]

Comparing Morrison to Bird is a major stretch. Morrison averages about 5.5 rebounds a game this season. Bird averaged double digit rebounds throughout his college career, almost 15 per game his final season.

Plus, Bird was amazing all three years in college, while Morrison has one great season. Morrison has just over 900 career points in his three years. Bird 2850 in his three years.

Finally, watching Morrison play. He is a non-factor on defense. He spends a lot of time standing around. Bird was a pretty good defensive player.

I think that the similarities are that they have similar size, shot selection, and are both white. And that is about it.

[Karlifornia]

Morrison is just raw.

[stevew]

Redick will be able to go to an NBA team that will probably be in the playoffs next year. He'll have the luxury of sitting on someone's bench and being their 7th-8th man. Play 20 mins a night, hit some 3's. Maybe he's a starter in a couple years. He won't have to be the savior of a team like Morrison will. Morrison might suprise me, but I'd think he would be more of a Dunleavy, Jr. type than a Nowitzki(if we are using white guys to compare to him). If he's your starting SF and you've spent a top 5 pick on him, you'll likely be dissapointed. The comparisons to Bird are crazy, it really cheapens Bird and what he did to have any above average white player compared to him.

[Groundhog]

I think the big difference is that Redick is a shooter and Morrison is a scorer. Shooters will always have a place in the NBA, but they rarely achieve the same sort of scoring prowess in the NBA that they did in college.

Scorers on the other hand translate well to the NBA; If they have the athleticism and shooting touch to boot - the later being something that guys like Harold Miner lacked.

I don't think Morrison will be a 20ppg scorer over his career, but I think he'll be a sort of upgraded Mike Miller. And yes, I consider that a compliment as I think Miller is a very nice player.

[stevew]

Plus, Bird was amazing all three years in college, while Morrison has one great season. Morrison has just over 900 career points in his three years. Bird 2850 in his three years.
.


Actually he has something like 1700-1800, you looked at it wrong.

[Swaggs]

Actually he has something like 1700-1800, you looked at it wrong.

Yeah... my bad. He has 902 this season and 1834 for his career. Both of which are awesome, but still not Bird-like.

[MizzouRah]

Well, on the college level, I would take Redick over Morrison. Could be I haven't seen too many Gonzaga games this year, but I've seen Redick do some amazing things. IMO, Duke is as good as Redick is. He had a terrible game against NC and that's the reason they lost.

[primelord]

The Bird comparisons are obviously ridiculous. Morrison could go on to be a great player and not be at Bird's level. I don't agree that shooters always have a place in the NBA either. Shawn Respert could shoot the lights out in college, but in the pros he couldn't get the space he needed to shoot.

If Redick can find ways to get open looks in the NBA he will probably be pretty good. I suspect Morrison will be the better of the two, but has an insanely long way to go before he should be mentioned anywhere near Bird.

[miami_fan]

Morrison is not like Larry Bird. For the hysteria that goes on every time someone says that a player is Jordan-like, I can't understand how it could be so easy to say that this guy (any guy) is like Larry Bird. Adam Morrison can score points. That is it. Bird was a better rebounder, better passer, and a better defender. Morrison is a good player, maybe even the player of the year. Just leave ANY comparison to Larry Bird out of the comparison. There is no comparison.

Forgive me Father for defending a member of those hated Celtics teams of the 80's;)

[Easy Mac]

I think that the people who say Redick is only a shooter haven't seen him play much this season. He get to the basket better than anyone else in college, and some of the passes he makes are pretty damn good. He won't be a star in the pros, but I think he's a far better all-around player than a straight shooter like Trajan Langdon.

[Fouts]

Great contributions everyone. I was thinking Morrisson was similar to Dunleavy, but much more aggressive. I haven't seen alot of Redick, but thought he would be a Mike Bibby type in the NBA.

[Karlifornia]

I think that the people who say Redick is only a shooter haven't seen him play much this season. He get to the basket better than anyone else in college, and some of the passes he makes are pretty damn good. He won't be a star in the pros, but I think he's a far better all-around player than a straight shooter like Trajan Langdon.


Redick reminds me a lot of Casey Jacobsen. Great shooter, developed his overall game a bit more (defense, passing, finding different ways to score) in his final season. Casey's playing in Spain now.

[EagleFan]

Calm down people. The only comparrison to Bird in that quote was that he seems to be able to score like Bird. Way too much over-reaction to that comment going on here.

Redick is like any other Duke star, a great college player who won't make a huge impact in the pros. That's what coach K is there for anyway, to put together a great college team, not a collection of would be pros.

[General Mike]

Douby is better than both of them.

[primelord]

Calm down people. The only comparrison to Bird in that quote was that he seems to be able to score like Bird. Way too much over-reaction to that comment going on here.

Well I am saying he can't even score like Bird. My reaction is not just to that one quote. We have been force fed this Bird comparison over and over again all season.

[Butter]

I think that the people who say Redick is only a shooter haven't seen him play much this season.

Do you seriously believe it is possible to watch college basketball without seeing something like 10 Duke games? Every other game of theirs is on ESPN, and the rest are on ESPN2.

The last several Duke games I've seen, Redick was making some great long range shots, and that was about it. Maybe he's getting tired or something, but his quickness to the basket has not been on display of late.

[ice4277]

Maybe he's getting tired or something...

I remember reading somewhere that he was getting real worn down towards the end of the season.

[mgadfly]

I used to hate Adam Morrison. He walked on to the court with a swagger, told you no one could stop him, and then backed it up. It drove me nuts. I was an assistant coach for one team in the league he played in during HS and scouted for a couple of teams I had connections with from outside our league. The player and team they wanted me to scout the most was Morrison and his squad (that lost the state championship in WA for its only loss his senior season).

My scouting report always started and ended with one bolded sentence "Don't let him touch the ball, if he gets it in his hands no one can guard him, you just have to hope he misses." Since then I've watched virtually every game of his (for example, this year I missed one game).

Here's my take on him:

1) I've been a close follower of HS basketball in the state of WA for the past 10 years. He's the best basketball player (this includes his supposed inability to guard) I've seen in the state during that time.

2) He is as good of scorer as there is in basketball. I don't know how his scoring compares to Bird because I wasn't old enough to remember Bird's games. I'd love to be able to go back and watch all of Birds games to compare, but my memories of Bird are when he was an older veteran which probably doesn't do him service.

3) He's a better defender than he is given credit for. He gets in passing lanes, comes away with big stops late in games, rebounds well for a wing in today's game (especially considering he plays on a team with a rebounder like Batista that seems to pull in every board), and his length, hops, and strength (I know he looks skinny, but he is in incredible shape and much stronger than he looks--part of this is because he is so disciplined regarding his diabetes) allows him to bother other players. His lateral speed is below average, but fortunately for him you only have to be able to guard someone for 9 or 10 seconds in the NBA.

4) Passing: You'd think he was tossing the ball into the cheap seats or something with how people knock him for having higher assist totals. A lot of it has to do with who he is passing the ball to. When he get the ball on the wing and kicks it to Batista he rarely gets credit for an assist because Batista does a drop step before laying the ball in on his man. Everyone else had pretty bad offensive seasons. Even if you make a great pass to an open man, if he doesn't make the shot (see Raivio this season) you don't get credit for an assist. Is he a passer like Bird? No, but Bird is a HOF player so that is a bit unfair. Is he a good passer? Yes, even if he'd rather take the shot or drive to the hoop prior to passing.

5) My last point is what makes him so tough. He believes every time he steps on the court that he's God's gift to basketball. It drives people nuts (myself included). He talks smack and you think to yourself there is no possible way he can live up to all the crap he is saying. Then he does again and again. For example, Coach Few said yesterday that Morrison is more competitive than Stockton. If you know much about Stockton you'll understand what that means about Morrison.

If I had to predict, assuming an NBA team gives him a chance, I bet Morrison is a 20 something scorer per game (and not nearly the liability on defense as his critics try to say) within two or three seasons. He'll play at a high level for 6 or 7 seasons before quickly wearing down due to the health complications associated with his disease.

(and to the poster above about Morrison's scoring, if he stays for his senior season there is a good chance he'd end up in Bird's neighborhood for points, and that is even after sharing scoring opportunities with Blake Steppe, Rony Turiaf, and JP Batista)

[Swaggs]

I think Jeff Hornacek's career might be a good comparison for Redick. I can see Redick, if he is on a good team, being a good contributor and even making a few All Star teams. But, he will not be the focus of an NBA team's offense. He will be able to hit open jumpers and threes, as well as creating runner-type shots.

[moriarty]

I think Reddick is the better college player. I've see Morrison play some great games, but Reddick has done it consitently this year against better competition. And other than Sheldon Williams to take off the pressure, Reddick has virtually carried Duke this year (which is more impressive to me than Morrison carrying Gonzaga).

Reddick definitely has some questions at the next level. He's improved his scoring going to the basket this year, but not enough for the NBA level IMO. He often relies on getting the fouls and making the free throws (I don't think he'll get the calls in the NBA). The thing he has going for him though that he rarely gets credit for is that he can nail the mid-range jumpers and not just the 3's. That may carry him in the NBA longer than anything. But as a 2 guard, he's going to get matched up with guys in the NBA he just can't physically handle. Plus, he's obviously not going to be in an offense next year designed around getting him solid picks/open shots.

At best I see him as a Kurt Heinrich. At worst Steve Alford. Most likely: a Juan Dixon.

[TroyF]

1) I agree with Swaggs. Hornacek is what he is going to be. A solid shooter who will play average/below average defense, but shoot lights out. With the right role on a winning team, he could be an incredible player.

2) Morrison is going to be a 20ppg scorer. There aren't a ton of incredibly high scoring SF in the league. In reality there are two: Paul Pierce and Carmelo Anthony. (before anyone starts screaming about Lebron, I don't care what Bron is "listed" as, he's the Cleveland PG, the offense runs through him on every possession)

How well does Morrison compare to those two? Probably a better pure shooter coming out of college than either Melo or PP. He can also drive, but I'm not sure his post game could compare to Melo at all.

All in all, he looks to me like a second tier star. A 20 point a game guy who will lead your team to some huge wins and will be a number one option somewhere. But can he take it "up" a level? Hit 25ppg while shooting well? That's the question and because he hasn't played against upper level competition in his college career, we may not know the answer to that until he's been in the NBA a few years.

[albionmoonlight]

How bad is Morrison's diabetes? And how much does that affect someone's ability to play basketball. I've heard people mention it a few times, but I thought that it was a pretty managable disease--especially when you would have an NBA team's medical staff giving you constant attention for it.

[rjolley]

I think the best place for Reddick in the NBA would be off the bench with a great player like Lebron or Kobe. He could spot up behind the arch and let 'em fly, in the same mold as Steve Kerr and John Paxton for the Bulls. That may be his best role, and that can translate into a long career if he works on his game.

Morrison is harder to define. I haven't seen him play enough to get a great feel, but from what I've seen, I think he'll be the better pro. He'll be an above average SF, with good size and a killer instinct to score. With work, he could be in the second tier of players, behind James, Bryant, Duncan, etc and put up about 15-20 pts, 7 reb a game. Not a role player, but not a superstar.

Right now, I'd say they're about even. Reddick carries Duke, but he's got Williams, impressive freshman McRoberts, and the cast of Dukies in the tough ACC. Morrison is carrying Gonzaga in the much weaker WCC, but his cast has failed him, as Batista, Ravio, and the Bulldogs have disappeared quite a bit over the year.

[Malificent]

One thing that will help Redick out is that he has an amazingly quick release on his shot, so he doesn't need to get free from very long. That, and he's a really hard worker. I think in the right setup, he could be a very solid NBA player - I don't think he'll ever be great, but he could be a reliable 6th man off the bench.

[st.cronin]

Hornacek is a good comp for Reddick, or maybe Damon Stoudamire. Morrison brings to mind Van Horn, or Tim Thomas, somebody like that. I don't see either one as a star.

[Groundhog]

Redick is like any other Duke star, a great college player who won't make a huge impact in the pros.

Ahhh... gotcha! So, like Elton Brand?

[stevew]

Ahhh... gotcha! So, like Elton Brand?

Yep, exactly like Trajan Langdon.

[Groundhog]

Yep, exactly like Trajan Langdon.

Ooooh yeah, I remember that Alaskan. Carlos Boozer, wasn't it?

[TroyF]

Ooooh yeah, I remember that Alaskan. Carlos Boozer, wasn't it?


Duke really gets an unfair rap in this regard.

Boozer, Battier, Brand, Hill, Maggettee, Deng and a ton of solid role players to boot.

Duke isn't nearly as bad at developing NBA players as some people want to believe. Hell, even Christian Laetner had a solid, if unspectacular NBA career.

[Warhammer]

Duke really gets an unfair rap in this regard.

Boozer, Battier, Brand, Hill, Maggettee, Deng and a ton of solid role players to boot.

Duke isn't nearly as bad at developing NBA players as some people want to believe. Hell, even Christian Laetner had a solid, if unspectacular NBA career.

I think the bashing is not about turning out NBA players, but they are not the superstars that they are made out to be while they are at Duke.

[stevew]

I've hated Dukies ever since the Cavs traded Ron Harper for that stiff Danny Ferry. Man, that pissed me off when I was a kid. Since then I've seen them draft Trajan Langdon, who sucked ass. And then Carlos Loozer. Although with the gimpy groin that he's had the last 2 years, I've been fairly happy seeing the Jazz suffer and paying him a great deal of money.

[TroyF]

I think the bashing is not about turning out NBA players, but they are not the superstars that they are made out to be while they are at Duke.

But they ARE superstars at Duke. Laetner was one of the best college players of all time. Langdon was a star in college. Hurley was.

I mean on the college scene, these guys are all stars. And Reddick is no exception. He finishes his NBA career 1-45, he was a college star.

I hate Duke. Despise em. But when it comes to their talent, people really need to get a grip.

[Groundhog]

But they ARE superstars at Duke. Laetner was one of the best college players of all time. Langdon was a star in college. Hurley was.

I mean on the college scene, these guys are all stars. And Reddick is no exception. He finishes his NBA career 1-45, he was a college star.

I hate Duke. Despise em. But when it comes to their talent, people really need to get a grip.

Yeah, that's the other thing. To me it's not necessarily the best college players that turn in to NBA superstars because to survive in the NBA it takes more than just basketball skills - you also need the physical tools. Sam Jacobsen was a great basketballer, but there is no place for him in the NBA because he lacks these skills. Laetner similarily didn't translate his game over incredibly well to the NBA, though he still had a decent career anyway.

That's the biggest problem with the NBA IMO - not enough guys with basketball smarts. I prefer to watch our Australian pro league than the NBA just about any night of the week.

[TroyF]

Yeah, that's the other thing. To me it's not necessarily the best college players that turn in to NBA superstars because to survive in the NBA it takes more than just basketball skills - you also need the physical tools. Sam Jacobsen was a great basketballer, but there is no place for him in the NBA because he lacks these skills. Laetner similarily didn't translate his game over incredibly well to the NBA, though he still had a decent career anyway.

That's the biggest problem with the NBA IMO - not enough guys with basketball smarts. I prefer to watch our Australian pro league than the NBA just about any night of the week.


And I'll disagree with this opinion bigtime. There are many talented players in the NBA coasting on talent alone. But for every Tim Thomas type selfish player who doesn't want to succeed, there are highly talented athletes who do have a high basketball IQ and work their asses off.

And the shooting isn't nearly as bad as it's made out to be. I'm one of the sick souls who loves the NBA more than college basketball. Do I wish it were more like the 80? Hell, yes. I also wish the reffing was better handled.

But the NBA game is solid. A ton of good players and some special ones thrown in there as well.

I have no problems with the NBA. You are right, you have to have talent to be in the league. Where I think you're wrong is underestimating the brains many of these guys have in terms of basketball IQ. They are a lot smarter than you seem to think they are.

[Groundhog]

And I'll disagree with this opinion bigtime. There are many talented players in the NBA coasting on talent alone. But for every Tim Thomas type selfish player who doesn't want to succeed, there are highly talented athletes who do have a high basketball IQ and work their asses off.

And the shooting isn't nearly as bad as it's made out to be. I'm one of the sick souls who loves the NBA more than college basketball. Do I wish it were more like the 80? Hell, yes. I also wish the reffing was better handled.

But the NBA game is solid. A ton of good players and some special ones thrown in there as well.

I have no problems with the NBA. You are right, you have to have talent to be in the league. Where I think you're wrong is underestimating the brains many of these guys have in terms of basketball IQ. They are a lot smarter than you seem to think they are.

There are a number of NBA players with basketball smarts, but there are more that struggle to fit in with the team concept and become role/team players because they are used to being the focal point of their teams offence ever since they were in high school.

When I watch an NBA game and see a final scoreline of 81-72, with both teams shooting 35% from the floor, I feel like gouging out my own eyes with a rusty fork. Sure, it doesn't happy every game, and teams like the Suns rarely do it and are usually fun to watch, but it happens often enough.

Credit has to go to individual defenders now being a lot better. I was watching game 4 (I think it's 4, maybe 5) of the Bulls-Suns final series about a month ago and the one thing you notice is that Jordan could get to the basket with relative ease because he was that much quicker than the guy marking him. That's not really the case anymore because the guy guarding you is equally as quick, as if he puts in a decent effort he should be able to stop you most times.

Another issue is that most teams just don't run effective offence on the court. The coach might draw up a fancy game plan for his team, but 7 or 8 teams out of 10 that I watch just seem to stand around and play isolation ball. This makes for very ugly basketball, and you certainly don't see this with the college guys. I was even watching a Spurs game (against Cleveland, earlier in the year) and noticed that they had lapses lasting a whole quarter of the game where they just didn't move the ball or try and get anything going. Why the coach lets this go on, I don't know.

[kingnebwsu]

It's weird...they both lost tonight. And the similarities continue...

[stevew]

There goes my top gun team.

[rkmsuf]

I know Morrison cares about the game and all but dude, please don't fall down crying at halfcourt.

[MizzouRah]

He was crying before the game was over.

[rkmsuf]

He was crying before the game was over.

Adam Vermeil Morrison