Can't Misses....That Miss

[JS19]

Referring to prospects in baseball that all the "experts" claim is a can't miss, a guranteed star. For whatever reason today as I was watching the Met game, Alex Escobar came to my mind. I remember a few years ago this guy was considered a stud in the Mets farm system, a surefire All-Star. Sure it could have been the NY hype, but he was considered by many to be one of the best. I remember that the Mets wouldn't trade this guy he was untouchable. If I remember correctly that it was during their 99-2000 playoff runs that they could have gotten top notch talent in return for him but they wouldn't do it. Made me wonder about the what ifs had they gotten the talent they could have, would they have made the Series in '99 or beat the Yanks in 2000. Anyone else remember any type of situation when their team wouldn't let go of a can't miss kind of guy that for whatever reasons just missed??

[st.cronin]

Phil Plantier

[NoMyths]

Todd Van Poppel.

Still have that Gold Leaf Rookie Card, too. Bastard.

[Mustang]

Joe Charboneau

[stevew]

Ben McDonald

[miami_fan]

Who was that HS pitcher the Yankees drafted and gave the huge signing bonus?

[cartman]

Ruben Mateo

[vex]

Who was that HS pitcher the Yankees drafted and gave the huge signing bonus?

Which one?

[vex]

Ruben Mateo

Sadly:(

[Maple Leafs]

Who was that HS pitcher the Yankees drafted and gave the huge signing bonus?
Brien Taylor?

[hoopsguy]

Corey Patterson is the latest one from the Cubs franchise.

Rick Ankiel from the Cards is another recent one.

[GrantDawg]

Brad Komminsk.

[miami_fan]

Brien Taylor?

That is him.

[CraigSca]

Those Mets - Pulsipher...good Lord, can't remember the rest. But they had 4 guys one year who were all supposed to be the next 20 game winners.

[MrBug708]

Karim Garcia was a cant miss kid. Edwin Jackson looks to be in that boat

[samifan24]

These two battled addictions and are likely candidates for this thread:

Josh Hamilton
Jeff Allison (on again, off again- will he pan out?)

[MikeVic]

Does Marty Janzen qualify?

[JeeberD]

Phil "Suck Puppy" Nevin, but maybe I'm biased because he sucked balls for the Astros, who selected him first overall.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Felix Jose... or am I thinking of Junior Felix... or Junior Noboa?

No, no, I'm just kidding, really.

[st.cronin]

Felix Jose... or am I thinking of Junior Felix... or Junior Noboa?

No, no, I'm just kidding, really.

For some reason that sequence makes me think of MATT STAIRS.

[JS19]

Those Mets - Pulsipher...good Lord, can't remember the rest. But they had 4 guys one year who were all supposed to be the next 20 game winners.

Pulsipher, Izzy and Paul Wilson aka Generation K. Yeah Right. Well Izzy has done well for himself and Wilson I guess has too but has never lived up to the hype, Pulsipher on the otherhand is a different story.

The thing that really got me going on this whole thing was not so much the fact that he was a bust, thats always gonna happen, but the fact that they could have gotten something for him during their playoff years but never pulled the trigger. Ended up being the wrong move when you look back on it.

[Clark]

Brewers...Billy Jo Robidoux

[sterlingice]

Those Mets - Pulsipher...good Lord, can't remember the rest. But they had 4 guys one year who were all supposed to be the next 20 game winners.

Wasn't Izzy one of those?

SI

[ISiddiqui]

Regarding the young pitchers the Mets had, they all got hurt! That's what did them in. Wilson used to throw as hard as anyone out there... people told stories about his velocity, but he hurt his arm and never had that speed on his fastball again. Izzy got hurt as well, and ended up going to the bullpen in Oakland, which revived his career. Pulse also, IIRC, got hurt.

I think if they came up today, they'd fare much better, as the early-mid 90s, you still had managers in the minors and majors who thought they could work a pitcher's arm until it fell off and it was good for them!

[Abe Sargent]

The Titanic

-Anxiety

[Solecismic]

Any Mariners pitching prospect not named King Felix.

[ISiddiqui]

Well we know about Felix yet... after all, arm injuries have done in plenty of other uber-prospects.

[Crapshoot]

Those Mets - Pulsipher...good Lord, can't remember the rest. But they had 4 guys one year who were all supposed to be the next 20 game winners.

Thank Dallas the "arm shredder" Green for that one. This is the dumbass that ran Scott Rolen out of Philly as well.

[JS19]

Any Mariners pitching prospect not named King Felix.

Who was supposed to be the next Randy Johnson? Was it Anderson something??

[MikeVic]

Who was supposed to be the next Randy Johnson? Was it Anderson something??

Ryan Anderson?

[Franklinnoble]

Empire Maker

[SackAttack]

Adrian Beltre.

Dude's getting paid 10 figures on the basis of playing out of his mind for one six month period.

I don't know if I'd call him a "miss," but he hasn't exactly set the world on fire in Seattle since that 2004 season.

[chinaski]

Ryan Anderson. Pretty much lived up to the hype, but injuries ended his chances.

Who was supposed to be the next Randy Johnson? Was it Anderson something??

[JS19]

Ryan Anderson, thats the one. Whatever happened to him, he can't be that old to have no potential at all left, can he?

[Franklinnoble]

Bill Buckner and that ground ball...

[JS19]

Bill Buckner and that ground ball...

HAHA, very clever. Although I was only 2 at the time, that groundball was the greatest thing that ever happened.

[Franklinnoble]

Scott Norwood

(what do they call it when you take perverse pleasure in the misery of others? I think maybe I'll just start another thread with that as the title...)

[Franklinnoble]

Tony Mandarich

[sovereignstar]

I think if they came up today, they'd fare much better, as the early-mid 90s, you still had managers in the minors and majors who thought they could work a pitcher's arm until it fell off and it was good for them!

Don't a lot of people believe that more pitchers get injured nowadays because they are pitching too little? I know that Nolan Ryan does.

[Franklinnoble]

Brian Bosworth

[Franklinnoble]

FBPro 99

[sovereignstar]

Franklinnoble

[Franklinnoble]

It was only a matter of time...

[Franklinnoble]

Tyson v. Douglas

[Fonzie]

Scott Norwood

(what do they call it when you take perverse pleasure in the misery of others? I think maybe I'll just start another thread with that as the title...)


Schadenfreude (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude)

[Lathum]

Mark Prior

[stevew]

Pat Combs

[Izulde]

Eric Lindros. :D

[Blade6119]

Neon_Chaos' penis the first time he tried to use it ;)

[IwasHere]

Yankees Nick Johnson.

I think the Yankess claimed Johnson would be the next Babe Ruth after batting over .500 in the minors.

[cschex]

Yankees Nick Johnson.

I think the Yankess claimed Johnson would be the next Babe Ruth after batting over .500 in the minors.

Hey, I know Johnson now toils in obscurity for the Nats, but injuries and Joe Torre's refusal to play him over inferior options derailed some of his playing time with the Yanks. Regardless, in 2003 he hit approx .280/420/475 and last year .290/.410/.480 in an extreme pitcher's park. He's 27 years old. I don't think he can be called a miss by any criteria. Ridiculous hypebole shouldn't be the sole basis of determining a player's career. Robinson Cano won't have Rod Carew's carrer, but that wouldn't make him a miss even though Joe Torre and others compared the two last year.

[Subby]

Kwame Brown :(

[bulletsponge]

Ryan Leaf

[Maple Leafs]

I remember when the Jays were convinced that Eddy Zosky would be their next great middle infielder.

[Poli]

Luis Medina.

Orestes Destrade.

Bud Smith.

Dwight Gooden.

[Drake]

Phil Plantier

Thanks for that punch in the balls, st.c.

I can't tell you how many Phil Plantier rookier cards I collected. And yes, I still have them all.

[JS19]

I would agree tha Nick Johnson wasn't a miss. Sure he didn't live up to all the hype, but I would say he turned in to a pretty decent ball player. At least he is still in baseball making some contributions. Also with Prior, he's a stud, just can't stay healthy.


Ryan Leaf

Football is just too easy.

[oykib]

Dwight Gooden.

I don't think you can call a guy who won nearly 200 games with .634 winning percentage a "miss." Incidentally, Gooden was another one of those arm-slagging casualties-- contrary to the common notion that it was the nose candy and New York nightlife that got him.

He's in the career top 50 in Winning percentage, Strikeouts, and Strikeouts/9 innings. I think any team would sign for that from their top pitching prospect with the blood of the GM's firstborn.

It's looking very much like Rocco Baldelli wil end up being one.

Jeffrey Hammonds was one.

Drew Henson was really a big one (two sports).

[IwasHere]

This is the same Nick Johnson that only once in his entire MLB career has he managed to get over 100 hits, and He has never hit 20 homeruns ever.


If you read the Yankee press release you would of thought Johnson already had his spot in Cooperstown. Instead he is just a very below average first baseman.

[Qwikshot]

Len Bias (actually I don't think he fits)

Eric Lindros

[Crapshoot]

This is the same Nick Johnson that only once in his entire MLB career has he managed to get over 100 hits, and He has never hit 20 homeruns ever.


If you read the Yankee press release you would of thought Johnson already had his spot in Cooperstown. Instead he is just a very below average first baseman.

No, he isn't. Nick Johnson has a career OPS+ of 120, and a career OBP of .383. His health is certainly an issue, but going forward, he's easily one of the top 10 1b in baseball.

[Toddzilla]

Kerry Wood
Mark Prior
Corey Patterson
Hee Seop Choi
Bobby Brownlie
Ben Christensen
[insert Cubs prospect here]

[panerd]

Jesse Foppert

[Pumpy Tudors]

vanderjagt lol

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2945/hemissedit11zf.gifhttp://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1945/hemissedit22qs.gif
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9598/hemissedit30as.gifhttp://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2426/hemissedit44lx.gif

[Crapshoot]

Jesse Foppert

Grr.... Foppert/Ainsworth/Williams - I'll never forgive Sabean for the Williams deal.

[Maple Leafs]

Sixto Castro

[Pumpy Tudors]

Comedy Scotty Thurman option

[Samdari]

No, he isn't. Nick Johnson has a career OPS+ of 120, and a career OBP of .383. His health is certainly an issue, but going forward, he's easily one of the top 10 1b in baseball.

Guys, the very fact that he is involved in a debate over how good a MAJOR LEAGUE PLAYER he is means he is completely out of place in a discussion of prospects who miss on the Brien Taylor/Todd Van Poppel scale.

[panerd]

Grr.... Foppert/Ainsworth/Williams - I'll never forgive Sabean for the Williams deal.

Yeah read any insider publication from the early 2000's and they woud tell you that Jesse Foppert and Jake Peavy were supposed to be battling over Cy Youngs for the next ten years. I don't know what happened to Foppert. Does he even play up in Seattle or did he hurt his arm again?

[Franklinnoble]

Star Wars: Episode One

[daedalus]

Sticking to the original discussion of baseball-only . . .

Van Poppel should not be discussed without his fellow "Four Aces".

Does Ben McDonald count? He did have almost 200 starts and ended with a .500+ winning percentage. He didn't live up to the pre-draft hype but was not a complete flop.

Did anyone else remember Kevin Maas, the swing that was tailor-made for Yankees Stadium and that half season?

When the Phillies saw the numbers for and sent their scout to see a High School outfielder Jeff Jackson, they thought he was so darn good, they picked him 4th overall and passed on some first baseman/tight end from Auburn who would have filled their need (at the time) quite well, I thought.

There was an outfielder with the Reds during the 80s who used to regularly break bats on his back on the swing through (yikes). Incredible athlete who never seemed to have been able to put the baseball part together. Would he count?

Mark Merchant was supposedly good enough that he made the Mariners think twice about drafting Junior.

Thanks to the Dodgers' idiotic meddling way, they ruined Darren Dreifort's arm. (They fucked with his motion and delivery and forced Dreifort, a natural sinker/slider pitcher, to abandon his slider and throw a curveball instead. Fuckheads.)

Kiki Jones.

Another one that I'm not sure belongs in this group would be Jose Offerman. He eventually became a servicable major leaguer who even had multiple solid years. But he was suppose to have been a superstar.

[Glengoyne]

Phil Plantier

One of the best College players I've ever seen.

I saw him play several games in a NCAA regional in Fresno, back in the mid eighties. He was pretty amazing at the plate. Before Notre Dame came to town a local scout summed him up by saying "If you've got a two run lead, and he comes up with the bases loaded....Walk Him."

He was HUGE in that regional. Honestly I haven't been more impressed with very many college players.

He did pretty much just evaporate when he went pro though.

[General Mike]

Alexander Daigle.

As far as Alex Escobar goes, the Mets could have gotten Barry Larkin for him at the trade deadline in 2000, but they would have had to give Larkin a 3 year contract extension. They did end up getting Roberto Alomar for him, but that is a story for another day.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Alexander Daigle.
Very nice. This is the one that's left the biggest impression on me. What a joke that guy turned out to be. I mean, I guess he eventually matured and is trying to get a regular spot in the NHL again, but he was such a waste of talent. Maybe he's got a few more years left in him, but he'll never be close to all that potential. Huge waste.

[JS19]

Alexander Daigle.

As far as Alex Escobar goes, the Mets could have gotten Barry Larkin for him at the trade deadline in 2000, but they would have had to give Larkin a 3 year contract extension. They did end up getting Roberto Alomar for him, but that is a story for another day.

Very true, I ended up looking more in to who they got for him. I could have sworn he was involved in the Griffey talks, but now that I think of it that was more Alfonzo and some others. I actually really brought this up because other than thinking of Escobar, Lastings Milledge came to mind. Watching him play I am actually a believer in this guy, but the way everyone talks about him reminded me of Escobar and how similar it is. Milledge is their "untouchable", as of right now anyway. If i remember correctly, he is one of the possible reasons Manny isn't in Queens right now.

[General Mike]

Very true, I ended up looking more in to who they got for him. I could have sworn he was involved in the Griffey talks, but now that I think of it that was more Alfonzo and some others. I actually really brought this up because other than thinking of Escobar, Lastings Milledge came to mind. Watching him play I am actually a believer in this guy, but the way everyone talks about him reminded me of Escobar and how similar it is. Milledge is their "untouchable", as of right now anyway. If i remember correctly, he is one of the possible reasons Manny isn't in Queens right now.

I agree that Milledge is getting hyped up, but there was no way in hell I wanted Manny Ramirez. We'll see what happens tho.

[MrBigglesworth]

Eric Lindros
He was a six time all-star and won an MVP trophy. He didn't live up to all the hype, but I wouldn't say he was a Van Poppel level miss. The trade that sent him to the Flyers may be the most-lopsided trade in history though, since just Forsberg was better, then add in the 5 other players, the two first round picks, and $15 million.

[JPhillips]

There are a number of first round pitchers that the Reds have shredded over the past ten years. It seemed like every year during the nineties we'd get a pitcher that would finally be our ace and every year they'd get hurt. I can't recall when the farm system last produced a decent starter.

[daedalus]

Hershel Walker? Or are you talking about Hockey trades only?

[daedalus]

Oh. A far more obscure but still quite lopsided trade would be Celtics trading away the pick for J.B. Carroll and ending up with Kevin McHale and Robert Parrish.

----

Jose Rijo would be the last "good" Reds starter I can think of. But I'm not local to them.

[JPhillips]

IIRC we got Rijo from the Yankees system in exchange for Paul O'Neill.

[General Mike]

IIRC we got Rijo from the Yankees system in exchange for Paul O'Neill.

Nope. You got Roberto Kelly for Paul O'Neill. Rijo was with the Reds well before that. And you got him from Oakland. According to baseballreference.com:

December 8, 1987: Traded by the Oakland Athletics with Tim Birtsas to the Cincinnati Reds for Dave Parker.

[MrBigglesworth]

Hershel Walker? Or are you talking about Hockey trades only?
I think the Lindros trade was worse. Even if you factor in who the Cowboys used the draft picks on (Smith, Woodson, among others), because the Avs used what they got in the Lindros deal to get Blake, Roy, and Bourque besides getting Forsberg outright. Plus $15 million.

[sachmo71]

Ruben Mateo

grrrrr

[Franklinnoble]

The Colts in Super Bowl III

[JPhillips]

Aah yes, the immortal Bird's Ass. Anyway, it still proves that Rijo came up mostly through someone else's farm system.

[Fighter of Foo]

Yeah read any insider publication from the early 2000's and they woud tell you that Jesse Foppert and Jake Peavy were supposed to be battling over Cy Youngs for the next ten years. I don't know what happened to Foppert. Does he even play up in Seattle or did he hurt his arm again?

Never came all the way back from TJ surgery for whatever reason.

Apparently he's had other injury problems and lost a few MPH off his fastball.

http://minorleagueball.com/story/2005/11/10/14217/792

[dawgfan]

Ryan Anderson, thats the one. Whatever happened to him, he can't be that old to have no potential at all left, can he?
He was released by the M's last year - I think he hooked up with the Brewers in their minor-league system.

Anderson had a labrum tear, the worst possible arm injury for a pitcher. Torn elbow ligaments are no longer a big deal with Tommy John surgery, and guys are recovering from torn rotator cuffs, but torn labrums are as good as a kiss of death. Very few pitchers are effective enough after this injury to reach the majors, and almost none are as good as they were before. Check out this article by Will Carroll explaining the details: Will Carroll on torn labrums (http://www.slate.com/id/2100895/)

[dawgfan]

Never came all the way back from TJ surgery for whatever reason.

Apparently he's had other injury problems and lost a few MPH off his fastball.

http://minorleagueball.com/story/2005/11/10/14217/792
Foppert's biggest issue is his lack of command - he's walking too many guys. He's with the M's AAA team in Tacoma.

[DanGarion]

Rick Asadoorian!

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/A/rick-asadoorian.shtml

I love the baseball cube!

[DanGarion]

No, he isn't. Nick Johnson has a career OPS+ of 120, and a career OBP of .383. His health is certainly an issue, but going forward, he's easily one of the top 10 1b in baseball.
Oh yeah? Which 10? I can name more then that better then him.

[DanGarion]

FYI they have a list of 1st Draft Picks with links to their stats on baseball cube

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/draft/index.shtml

[dawgfan]

Oh yeah? Which 10? I can name more then that better then him.
Hmmm, let's see...

First basemen I'd rate as better than Nick Johnson:

Lance Berkman
Carlos Delgado
Jason Giambi
Todd Helton
Derrek Lee
Albert Pujols
Richie Sexson
Mark Teixeira

Guys I'd consider more or less equal with Nick Johnson:

Paul Konerko
Lyle Overbay
Mike Sweeney

I'm sure I'm overlooking someone, but I also think it's a reasonable statement to say that Nick Johnson is among the 10 best first basemen in the majors.

[Coffee Warlord]

Kerry Wood
Mark Prior
Corey Patterson
Hee Seop Choi
Bobby Brownlie
Ben Christensen
[insert Cubs prospect here]

Bobby Hill
Jerome Walton
Kyle Farnsworth
Juan Cruz

[DanGarion]

Hmmm, let's see...

First basemen I'd rate as better than Nick Johnson:

Lance Berkman
Carlos Delgado
Jason Giambi
Todd Helton
Derrek Lee
Albert Pujols
Richie Sexson
Mark Teixeira

Guys I'd consider more or less equal with Nick Johnson:

Paul Konerko
Lyle Overbay
Mike Sweeney

I'm sure I'm overlooking someone, but I also think it's a reasonable statement to say that Nick Johnson is among the 10 best first basemen in the majors.
I'm waiting for him to stay healthy before I can say he's better then anyone.

[DanGarion]

Bobby Hill
Jerome Walton
Kyle Farnsworth
Juan Cruz
Greg Smith
Brooks Keishnick

The list goes on and on. But I don't think Wood or Prior deserve to be on the list, it's one thing to be a missed can't miss and it's another to be pretty dominate, make it to the show, and have injury issues

[JS19]

Guys I'd consider more or less equal with Nick Johnson:

Paul Konerko
Lyle Overbay
Mike Sweeney

I'm sure I'm overlooking someone, but I also think it's a reasonable statement to say that Nick Johnson is among the 10 best first basemen in the majors.

I agree that Johnson has turned out to be a pretty decent ballplayer and not a bust, but you really think he is equal to Konerko??

Also, General Mike, I too didn't want Manny only for the fact that I am a big believer in Milledge who very well can be the next Manny. The future with Beltran, Wright, Reyes and a hopefully awesome Milledge would be nice. However, this comes back to my original point, being that the Mets decided not to include Milledge in the trade and didn't make it, will it come back to bite them in the ass.

[John Galt]

Hmmm, let's see...

First basemen I'd rate as better than Nick Johnson:

Lance Berkman
Carlos Delgado
Jason Giambi
Todd Helton
Derrek Lee
Albert Pujols
Richie Sexson
Mark Teixeira

Guys I'd consider more or less equal with Nick Johnson:

Paul Konerko
Lyle Overbay
Mike Sweeney

I'm sure I'm overlooking someone, but I also think it's a reasonable statement to say that Nick Johnson is among the 10 best first basemen in the majors.

I rate Sweeney lower because of his likely health and age related decline. Ryan Howard could fit anywhere on the list based on your assessment of him (which is still fairly speculative for anyone). Overbay is also likely in the decline stage and I think Nick is better than him. I assume Dunn is no longer considered a 1B despite his poor attempt to play LF. What about Thome? Is he a DH like Ortiz or still an inbetween hybrid type? I think Giambi is also a big question mark - I might slide him down to the next tier, but I might not. With all those caveats and questions, I would generally agree that saying Nick is a top 10 1B is pretty reasonable. It's close, but reasonable.

[Coffee Warlord]

Greg Smith
Brooks Keishnick

The list goes on and on. But I don't think Wood or Prior deserve to be on the list, it's one thing to be a missed can't miss and it's another to be pretty dominate, make it to the show, and have injury issues

They will be on the list until they put together 2 seasons in a row sans-injury and perform at a pretty high level.

One season of excellent play does not remove you from the Bust List, in my view (see Jerome Walton, Corey Patterson).

[hoopsguy]

If you guys want to go back on hyped Cubs prospects, Ty Griffin is the one that I remember the most post-Dunston and pre-Wood/Patterson/Prior. I don't think he ever saw the bigs ...

[John Galt]

I agree that Johnson has turned out to be a pretty decent ballplayer and not a bust, but you really think he is equal to Konerko??


Last year Nick had a .887 OPS in 547 PA. Konerko had a .909 OPS in 664 PA. Given the massive differences in home fields, I think they are pretty close and Nick may have the edge in offensive efficiency. But since Konerko's early career injury troubles, he has proven more durable than Nick. Then again, Konerko is 30 and Nick is 27. So, I give Konerko the edge, but not by much.

[Young Drachma]

I remember when the Jays were convinced that Eddy Zosky would be their next great middle infielder.

Ed Sprague
Adam Meinershagen
Jose Cruz, Jr.

[Young Drachma]

Hee Seop Choi

[Glengoyne]

I remember when the Jays were convinced that Eddy Zosky would be their next great middle infielder.

I was on this band wagon as well. He was just such a great fielder in college, and then add in that arm. Considering he was close to a perenial .400 hitter in college, I thought he was a sure thing to hit .250 in the bigs and just clean up in the field. It just didn't turn out that way.

[Solecismic]

Rondell White has had a decent journeyman's career, but he was supposed to be a superstar five-tool player.

Marc Newfield, an outfielder who came up with Seattle, was an infamous flop.

Anyone remember Saloman Torres, the pitcher from San Francisco who looked so good in his first few starts?

Or how about Ruben Rivera, who, when he came up with the Yankees, was considered on a par with ARod? That was the ultimate Yankee prospect hype job.

Sean Burroughs is another name for this list.

Ryan (Space Needle) Anderson does stand out as the biggest bust in recent years. I don't think he's ever thrown a pitch at that major league level, and this guy was considered a top-ten prospect for all of baseball for several years.

[Logan]

Billy Beane.

[st.cronin]

Cory Snyder, anyone?

[GrantDawg]

Wonderfull Terrific Monds. He and Andruw Jones both hit Durham while I lived in the area, and they were both supposed to be superstars. Monds had injury troubles and never made it as far as his battery-mate.

[JeeberD]

Eric Anthony

[Poli]

Keith Hughes.

Shawn Abner.

Randy Milligan.

[Poli]

Sam Horn.

[Poli]

Eric Anthony
Gerald Young?

[JeeberD]

Eric Yelding?

[Poli]

Eric Yelding?You took my next one, hater.

[JeeberD]

Roberto Mejia

[JeeberD]

You took my next one, hater.


:p

[molson]

Juan Pena had one of the sadder career stat totals for the Red Sox:

2 Games Started
2-0 W/L
13 IP
0.69 ERA
15Ks

Then he got injured, tried to come back, and got injured again without ever getting back to the majors.

[JeeberD]

Brian L Hunter!

He was supposed to be the frontrunner for the ROY for the '95 season, and while he may have stretched his career out for nine years, it certainly wasn't a distinguished one...

[clintl]

Salomon Torres

[Franklinnoble]

Neal Anderson

[JeeberD]

Mitch Meluskey

[JeeberD]

Daryle Ward!

[JeeberD]

Carlos Hernandez :(

[Poli]

Roberto MejiaHe couldn't possibly count.

[Poli]

Andres Thomas.

[st.cronin]

Daryl Boston!!!

[Poli]

Ron Powlus.

[Poli]

Dan Kendra

[JeeberD]

He couldn't possibly count.

He was supposed to be the Rockies star of the future back in the mid-nineties.

Wait, I'm thinking of Neifi Perez.


Neifi Perez!

[McSweeny]

Juan Pena had one of the sadder career stat totals for the Red Sox:

2 Games Started
2-0 W/L
13 IP
0.69 ERA
15Ks

Then he got injured, tried to come back, and got injured again without ever getting back to the majors.

i think it was a line drive to his pitching elbow that finally ended his career

[stevew]

A bit before my time, but Danny Goodwin would be someone who fits the mark. Dude was drafted #1 overall 2 times and ended with 600 odd career at bats and 13 homers.

[stevew]

I'm suprised nobody mentioned Sam Horn. Dude came up like gangbusters(14 homers in 150 odd AB), and that was about it.

[Poli]

I'm suprised nobody mentioned Sam Horn. Dude came up like gangbusters(14 homers in 150 odd AB), and that was about it.See above.

[st.cronin]

Rick Manning?

[stevew]

The Brewers seem to have a ton of power hitting 1b hype spects that never turn out into much of anything(Meyer, Jaha). Although Jaha did have a couple good years.

[Poli]

Crash Davis.

[Poli]

Mackey Sasser. The ball goes to the pitcher.

[dawgfan]

I agree that Johnson has turned out to be a pretty decent ballplayer and not a bust, but you really think he is equal to Konerko??
On further review, Johnson's health issues drop him a notch, so I guess I'd probably give a slight edge to Konerko.

But, if you put the difference in games played between the two, yes I think Johnson compares well to Konerko. They're different hitters obviously - Konerko has a lot more power, Johnson is much more of an on-base guy (much better walk rate). But overall, their OPS+ (which takes into account home ballparks and rates a player relative to the rest of the league) are about even if you look at the last 3 seasons added up for each. Given that most sabermatricians will tell you that OBP is more important than SLG (some say at a ratio of 2:1), and given that Johnson is much better in that department, I'd say that offensively, Johnson provides a bit more value than Konerko.

[McSweeny]

I'm suprised nobody mentioned Sam Horn. Dude came up like gangbusters(14 homers in 150 odd AB), and that was about it.

150 odd ABs before the league realized he couldn't hit a breaking ball

[dawgfan]

I rate Sweeney lower because of his likely health and age related decline. Ryan Howard could fit anywhere on the list based on your assessment of him (which is still fairly speculative for anyone). Overbay is also likely in the decline stage and I think Nick is better than him. I assume Dunn is no longer considered a 1B despite his poor attempt to play LF. What about Thome? Is he a DH like Ortiz or still an inbetween hybrid type? I think Giambi is also a big question mark - I might slide him down to the next tier, but I might not. With all those caveats and questions, I would generally agree that saying Nick is a top 10 1B is pretty reasonable. It's close, but reasonable.
Yep, agree with the above. Thome is strictly a DH with the Pale Hose. Dunn has been exclusively a LF recently. Howard has just one season, so it's hard to know where to rate him - if he lives up to his projections, he'll probably surpass Johnson; that said, I should've listed him above. Sweeney I would agree is probably approaching the end of his career and is looking at a decline. Giambi is hard to peg - can he repeat last year? I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt since it falls in line with prior seasons, and that would make him slightly superior to Johnson. I'm not ready to write off Overbay as a 1-year fluke, but there is that concern. He's another hard one to rate, but based off his 2 full seasons, he compares pretty well to Johnson over the same period.

[JS19]

I see where you are coming from with the Konerko, Johnson comparison, being that they are two different types of players. The thing with me though is that, and i love baseball to death and am quite educated in it, but I really could care less about OPS and such. I've been playing baseball my whole life and not trying to be a self-indulging (sure hope i spelled that right and used it in the correct way) but I like to think of myself as well above an average player. I say this because to me it's all about what you do for your team. Throughout all the years i've been playing i've come across many players of different caliber. The ones that always stuck out were the guys who maybe didnt put up the best numbers but played hard and just made things happen. Kind of the ones who always just seemed to come through when it was needed. I really kind of forgot where I was trying to go with this but I think it was something along the lines of why I put Konerko well above Johnson, because last year he seemed to be that type of player to me.

[IwasHere]

He was supposed to be the Rockies star of the future back in the mid-nineties.

Wait, I'm thinking of Neifi Perez.


Neifi Perez!

I thought the Rockies Star of the future was going to be catcher Ben Petrick?

[cartman]

Ron Powlus.

Yeah, you'd think someone who was awarded in advance 5 Heismans (he was the only person to ever win during their redshirt season) would have had a better career.

:D

[TheOhioStateUniversity]

Jaret Wright sans that season with the Braves.

[IwasHere]

Where is Larry Brown's "Best Player" in this years draft. You know, the guy who was supposed to of been better than LeBron James, Carmello Anthony, or Dwyane Wade.

I give you Larry Brown's All Star sensation Darko Milicic!

[TheOhioStateUniversity]

Larry Brown wanted that pick? I thought it was all Joe Dumars, maybe my memory is wrong.

[JS19]

I think it was Dumars. I'm no basketball expert but from what I know Brown wants nothing to do with the rookies.

[JeeberD]

I thought the Rockies Star of the future was going to be catcher Ben Petrick?

I almost brought him up as well. :)

As well as Derrick Gibson.

[Poli]

David Nied.

[tanglewood]

Greame Hick

[Franklinnoble]

Is anyone else tempted to post a parody thread titled. "Shoulda missed... but didn't" and then include names like John Lennon and Brandon Lee?

[JeeberD]

David Nied.


Ooh...nice!

[Poli]

I almost went Nigel Wilson...but I'm not sure how much of a real prospect he was.

[DanGarion]

ROSS GLOAD! He never did shit for me in OOTP!

[Izulde]

He was a six time all-star and won an MVP trophy. He didn't live up to all the hype, but I wouldn't say he was a Van Poppel level miss. The trade that sent him to the Flyers may be the most-lopsided trade in history though, since just Forsberg was better, then add in the 5 other players, the two first round picks, and $15 million.

As the guy who mentioned Lindros first in this thread, I'm going to disagree with your assertion that he wasn't that big a miss.

To me, he *was* that big a miss. Not only in terms of the lopsided trade, but for the level of hype attributed to him. He was supposed to be the next Great One, on the level of Gretzky or Super Mario.

He turned out to be an okay player, but nowhere near the rarified heights expected of him. Furthermore, how many of those All-Star nominations were legitimate ones and not just based on hype and reputation?

When you're annointed as the one destined to become the One for an entire generation and a Hall of Fame lock as a result and only turn out to be fairly decent, to me that's a huge miss, particularly with the trade factors.

[DanGarion]

As the guy who mentioned Lindros first in this thread, I'm going to disagree with your assertion that he wasn't that big a miss.

To me, he *was* that big a miss. Not only in terms of the lopsided trade, but for the level of hype attributed to him. He was supposed to be the next Great One, on the level of Gretzky or Super Mario.

He turned out to be an okay player, but nowhere near the rarified heights expected of him. Furthermore, how many of those All-Star nominations were legitimate ones and not just based on hype and reputation?

When you're annointed as the one destined to become the One for an entire generation and a Hall of Fame lock as a result and only turn out to be fairly decent, to me that's a huge miss, particularly with the trade factors.
Maybe he meant Eric Lindros as a baseball player!

http://www.dangarion.com/gallery/albums/misc/eric_lindros.jpg

[Maple Leafs]

Ed Sprague
Adam Meinershagen
Jose Cruz, Jr.
I'll see that, and raise you:

Sil Campusano
Mark Whiten
Glennalen Hill

... and, of course, Rob Ducey.

[Maple Leafs]

To me, he *was* that big a miss. Not only in terms of the lopsided trade, but for the level of hype attributed to him. He was supposed to be the next Great One, on the level of Gretzky or Super Mario.
My memory of things was that at the time, he was expected to be a superstar but not at the level of those two guys. I remember seeing a lot of reports calling him the next Messier (this is back when Messier was the dominant power forward, before he became a New York legend and just hung around for years).

Take away the injuries and I think he could have been the next Messier, on the ice. Off the ice, different story.

[cartman]

Dean Houston

[TazFTW]

Matt Anderson, I think that is his name. A pitcher from the Tigers who could throw 100+ MPH. He was supposed to be a dominant starter and then was supposed to be a dominant closer. He didn't dominate anything.

As a Braves fan, I heard a lot about George Lombard and he struggled in the majors.

[daedalus]

If we branch away from baseball, what about the kid that got mentioned in "A Season on the Brink"?

What about Reggie Jefferson? I mean, it's a bit unfair to him since it didn't seem like he ever got a fair chance in Cincinati but much was expected of him.Greg Smith
Brooks Keishnick

The list goes on and on. But I don't think Wood or Prior deserve to be on the list, it's one thing to be a missed can't miss and it's another to be pretty dominate, make it to the show, and have injury issuesTo be fair to Kieschnick, he was never really highly rated in college. He was a hell of a college player but they never really seemed to have rated him for pro ball chance (a la Gino Torretta).

[DanGarion]

If we branch away from baseball, what about the kid that got mentioned in "A Season on the Brink"?

What about Reggie Jefferson? I mean, it's a bit unfair to him since it didn't seem like he ever got a fair chance in Cincinati but much was expected of him.To be fair to Kieschnick, he was never really highly rated in college. He was a hell of a college player but they never really seemed to have rated him for pro ball chance (a la Gino Torretta).

Selected by Chicago Cubs in 1st round (10th overall) of 1993 amateur entry draft (June Regular Phase)


To me any guy drafted in the first round is someone considered a can't miss.

[samifan24]

Mark Whiten

I can't believe you're dissing "Hard Hittin" Mark Whiten. What a nickname.

[bbor]

I'll see that, and raise you:

Sil Campusano
Mark Whiten
Glennalen Hill

... and, of course, Rob Ducey.

Alex Gonzalez
Willie Canate
Joey Mcglauglin
Guilermo Quieroz
Eric Hinske
Luke Prokopec

Anyone traded for or drafted by Gord Ash.

[DaddyTorgo]

Len Bias

[Franklinnoble]

Len Bias

That's just wrong.

Kinda funny. But wrong.

[Maple Leafs]

I can't believe you're dissing "Hard Hittin" Mark Whiten. What a nickname.
Better than Glenallen "Spiderman" Hill?

[DanGarion]

Better than Glenallen "Spiderman" Hill?
Funny how I always think of those guys as a pair.

[clintl]

I almost went Nigel Wilson...but I'm not sure how much of a real prospect he was.

I remember Bill James in his 1993 Baseball Abstract saying the Rockies were a bunch of idiots for picking Charlie Hayes instead of Nigel Wilson in the expansion draft. Not one of Bill's finest predictive moments.

[sterlingice]

Funny how I always think of those guys as a pair.

Didn't both get included in a trade at one point?

SI

[samifan24]

Better than Glenallen "Spiderman" Hill?

And they are both former Indians, too. :D

[molson]

What about Reggie Jefferson? I mean, it's a bit unfair to him since it didn't seem like he ever got a fair chance in Cincinati but much was expected of him.

I wonder whatever happened to him - he was a really good role player for the Red Sox - just looked him up, he hit .347 in 386 Abs in 1996 (I remember there was some rumblings about him being pissed that the Sox wouldn't give him more ABs and a chance at the Batting Title late in the year). Then he was just gone, out of the game at age 30.

[dervack]

Since I know he was mentioned in this thread,

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2545634

It looks like this guy need to get cleaned up and not worry about pro sports ever again.

[rexallllsc]

Len Bias (actually I don't think he fits)

Eric Lindros

Lindros is not a miss.

In his prime (before concussions took their toll)

He was one of the top PPG men of all time.

[rexallllsc]

Thanks to the Dodgers' idiotic meddling way, they ruined Darren Dreifort's arm. (They fucked with his motion and delivery and forced Dreifort, a natural sinker/slider pitcher, to abandon his slider and throw a curveball instead. Fuckheads.)


When he was "on" watching him pitch was great. I saw this more than a few times. Shame.

[spleen1015]

Matt Mays

[evil homer]

blair thomas

article on brien taylor:

hxxp://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/431725p-363842c.html

[miked]

Lindros is not a miss.

In his prime (before concussions took their toll)

He was one of the top PPG men of all time.

Eric Lindros was a bitch.

http://slam.canoe.ca/HockeyImages/lindros_hit2.jpg

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YjnsJDQOek : Check out #1 :)

Actually, the video is a compilation of Scott Stevens hits and it's kind of crazy to watch these guys try and get up afterwards...