Nash is MVP?????

[stevew]

Down to the wire in the NBA and for the few of us that actually like the game, this year's MVP race could likely be very tight. A number of players have similar credentials, and it should be a close ballot. Even guys other than the one's in the poll have had pretty good seasons. I'm sure TroyF could make a good case for Carmelo, although I don't put him among my top canidates this season. But he's still had a great year. Gilbert Arenas has also had a great season, although his team is barely .500 at this point.

I think that Kobe will probably win, although a Billips win wouldn't suprise me either. The Pistons have been quite dominant this season, and last year shows that the voters aren't afraid to pick a PG who might not be a great scorer. I'd vote for King James, as he's been great all year, and has gotten more clutch as the season has progressed. Although I wonder if some voters will look away from him this year because they figure him to have numerous chances to win in the future. Plus Lebron is pretty mediocre on defense.


Update

PHOENIX -- Steve Nash will win his second straight NBA Most Valuable Player award, according to reports on several area newspapers.

The announcement may not come for two weeks, according to the Arizona Republic. But the paper, and others, report that the voting shows Nash edging LeBron James, Dirk Nowitzki, Chauncey Billups and Kobe Bryant for the MVP.

This season, Nash had career-highs in points (18.8 points per game), rebounds (4.2 per game), field goal percentage (51.2 percent) and free throw percentage (92.1 percent -- best in the league). He was also the league-leader in assists (10.5) and shot nearly 50 percent from three-point range.

The Suns are currently playing the Los Angeles Lakers in the first round of the Western Conference playoffs.

A year ago, Nash edged Shaquille O'Neal in what was the fourth-closest balloting in history.

[miami_fan]

I am going to go with Steve Nash.

[miami_fan]

Interesting note (or maybe not)

Wilt averaged 50.4 pts 25.7 rpg in 1961-62 and lost the MVP race to Bill Russell

Absolutely no way a guy averages 50 points today and not win MVP.

[Eaglesfan27]

Great poll. There are least 8 guys having legitimate MVP years. AI is having a great year. Lebron has been spectacular. Steve Nash is doing it again with over half of his fellow starters missing. Kobe is scoring at an amazing pace. Chauncey is playing very well. I could see any of them but AI winning it. My pick is Lebron. He has had tremendous expectations on him since he entered the league, and amazingly, he is surprassing those expectations. His overall numbers are just amazing, and I still say that his surrounding talent except for his C aren't that good.

[JS19]

I think this is gonna be the closest race ever, it should be anyway. Losing Amare most put the Suns down and out so Nash is a very strong candidate and I think he will win. As much as I hate Kobe, if you give the award based on what it is, Kobe has carried this team and they would probably be a cellar dwellar without him. Same can be said with LeBron however. I really doubt Billups will win it, he may have great numbers, but with that Pistons team I still think they would have been a very good team without him.

[Gary Gorski]

I have to go with my home town guy Chauncey here - I didn't think Nash was MVP last year and I still don't this year - how can a guy who is so ineffective on defense be the most valuable player in the league? I think MVP should be the most complete player in the league - a guy who can change the game on both ends of the floor and makes his teammates achieve more with him than they could without him. Nash definitely makes the Suns go and makes players around him better on one end of the floor but Billups gets it done on both ends and makes clutch play after clutch play when it counts. He's led Detroit to back to back (and likely a third straight) NBA Finals. Yes he has a lot of talent around him but you can't just plug Lindsey Hunter in there and not be missing something.

Kobe is the most talented player in the league but he doesn't make players around him better. LeBron needs to continue to show that he is capable of making the game winning play - which I admit he started to show more of late in the year. Wade I think is hurt by the fact that he plays with Shaq and even though he's an old, broken down Shaq, he's still Shaq. Nowitzki had a fantastic year and I think what hurts his chances are that he and Dallas have pretty much made a lot of noise in the regular season and then always flame out in the playoffs - if Dallas gets to the Western Conf Finals then I think he'll get some serious consideration next year assuming he produces as well.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

The reason I wouldn't vote Kobe is he is the guy who forced Shaq out. With Shaq, the Lakers are a 60 win team and a contender. Without Shaq, they are a mediocre team that must be carried by a superstar. Yes, Kobe is carrying them, but through his selfish actions he has made that team at least 20 games worse.

As far as who I would pick for MVP, I would give the nod to Lebron. I think Nash is very deserving, but the Suns have struggled as of late and Lebron seems to have gotten better as the year has gone on.

[Vince]

I think that although there are a lot of contenders for this award, it's really a two-man race. LeBron and Kobe have done so much, and their teams are so awful without them, that they are my clearcut #'s 1 and 2. I mean, if you replace either of them with a league average player, neither team gets a whiff of the playoffs. Now who is #1, and who is #2?

This is tough. I think both teams are pretty pathetic sans their superstars, but I think that the Lakers are a little worse. Kobe can absolutely put his team on his back and carry them (see: 60 points through three quarters, 81 points in a game, etc), but LeBron can do that as well -- and not only that, he seems to make the players around him better. I give it to LeBron by a hair.

[JeeberD]

Dirk!

[Vince]

Not a dola:

As a caveat -- I don't watch too much Basketball. I know Nash has been amazing while a ton of his teammates have been injured...but he also has those teammates to rely on at times. LeBron and Kobe don't even have that to look forward to.

[MrBug708]

The reason I wouldn't vote Kobe is he is the guy who forced Shaq out. With Shaq, the Lakers are a 60 win team and a contender. Without Shaq, they are a mediocre team that must be carried by a superstar. Yes, Kobe is carrying them, but through his selfish actions he has made that team at least 20 games worse.

I didnt think people still bought that...

[st.cronin]

I think that although there are a lot of contenders for this award, it's really a two-man race. LeBron and Kobe have done so much, and their teams are so awful without them, that they are my clearcut #'s 1 and 2. I mean, if you replace either of them with a league average player, neither team gets a whiff of the playoffs. Now who is #1, and who is #2?

This is tough. I think both teams are pretty pathetic sans their superstars, but I think that the Lakers are a little worse. Kobe can absolutely put his team on his back and carry them (see: 60 points through three quarters, 81 points in a game, etc), but LeBron can do that as well -- and not only that, he seems to make the players around him better. I give it to LeBron by a hair.

I agree with the first part, but I would give it to Kobe. There's something psychotic about the way he plays ball - like he hasn't gotten laid all year, or something.

[MrBug708]

I think the Lakers are playing much better now then they were earlier this season and much better then last year. They are peaking at a good time without Mihm, Kawame as their best post player, and a guy named Smush as their best PG.

I dont think Kobe will win it, but he's putting up some unbelievable numbers

[Vince]

I agree with the first part, but I would give it to Kobe. There's something psychotic about the way he plays ball - like he hasn't gotten laid all year, or something.

Like I said, I find it incredibly hard to decide between the two of them. Since I hate all things L.A., that probably means that subconciously I think he's the better choice, but can't pick him just because he's from L.A.

[Arles]

Without Nash, the Suns would be a 25-win team. Without Kobe, the Lakers would be a 25-win team. The difference is with Nash, the Suns won 53 games and got the No. 2 seed (and could have won more had they not clinched over a week ago). With Kobe, the Lakers squeaked into the seventh seed by a half a game.

And, for a second consecutive season, all the main players on the Suns had career seasons - including many new faces.

[MrBug708]

Sorry Arles. Shawn Marion has had a much better year then Lamar Odom has had and the Lakers dont have anyone who can match Raja Bell

[stevew]

Without Nash, the Suns would be a 25-win team. Without Kobe, the Lakers would be a 25-win team. The difference is with Nash, the Suns won 53 games and got the No. 2 seed (and could have won more had they not clinched over a week ago). With Kobe, the Lakers squeaked into the seventh seed by a half a game.

And, for a second consecutive season, all the main players on the Suns had career seasons - including many new faces.

Without Lebron I think the Cavs would win about 20 games max, if that.

[Neuqua]

Dirk.

[Noop]

This is a tough list. On one hand watching D.Wade play all season I know he does in fact carry the team. Shaq although he is there can be replaced by Alonzo Mourning. Miami lives and dies with D.Wade he makes the people around him better something Kobe and LeBron(Atleast not yet) don't do. Steve Nash does make his teammates better but his defense is a bit suspect.

I vote Wade because he is going to be the Jordan of our era. Not talent-wise but with the way he can lift his team and make big plays.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Not voting because I'm not arguing (entirely) seriously, but...

Pau Gasol, people! 20.4ppg, 8.9rpg, 4.6apg, 1.9bpg, and a .503 FG%. Without him, the Grizzlies are a 6 seed. With him, they're a... 5.

OK, never mind.

[Emiliano]

Kobe.

[stevew]

. Miami lives and dies with D.Wade he makes the people around him better something Kobe and LeBron(Atleast not yet) don't do.



I seriously question that you watch basketball if you don't think that Lebron makes the people around him better. He continously puts them in positions to make plays, however it isn't Lebron's fault that Damon Jones or Donyell Marshall can't hit a wide open 3 this year, or that Drew Gooden sucks badly and cannot convert easy scoring chances.

[TroyF]

Without Lebron I think the Cavs would win about 20 games max, if that.


I always have a tough time voting on MVP based off of that. There are a ton of players, who if taken away, would simply have their franchises implode.

If we just look at playoff teams this year, I think you could make a pretty solid case that if you took Hienrich, Arenas, Lebron, Artest, Kobe, Brand, Gasol, and Carmelo off of their respective teams, they don't make the playoffs. Some of those teams would become beyond horrible. (I don't even want to think of what would have happened with the Cavs, Nuggets or Lakers had those three not been there.)

I see a ton of MVP candidates this year. My vote would go to Kobe. Billups second. Lebron third.

I don't agree with Simmons a lot anymore, but what he wrote in his MVP column I agree with completely. The draft class of Lebron, Melo and Wade may be the most important draft class into the league ever. You have the basketball God in Lebron. You have Wade, who is a superstar right now and only getting better. And you have Melo, who is the best clutch shooter in basketball now and continues to improve at a ridiculous rate while everyone continues to stare at the other two.

Bosh is also an outstanding player and even Darko has shown some signs late in the year of becoming a player. That would be a ridiculous top 5.

[stevew]

I always have a tough time voting on MVP based off of that. There are a ton of players, who if taken away, would simply have their franchises implode.

If we just look at playoff teams this year, I think you could make a pretty solid case that if you took Hienrich, Arenas, Lebron, Artest, Kobe, Brand, Gasol, and Carmelo off of their respective teams, they don't make the playoffs. Some of those teams would become beyond horrible. (I don't even want to think of what would have happened with the Cavs, Nuggets or Lakers had those three not been there.)

I see a ton of MVP candidates this year. My vote would go to Kobe. Billups second. Lebron third.

I don't agree with Simmons a lot anymore, but what he wrote in his MVP column I agree with completely. The draft class of Lebron, Melo and Wade may be the most important draft class into the league ever. You have the basketball God in Lebron. You have Wade, who is a superstar right now and only getting better. And you have Melo, who is the best clutch shooter in basketball now and continues to improve at a ridiculous rate while everyone continues to stare at the other two.

Bosh is also an outstanding player and even Darko has shown some signs late in the year of becoming a player. That would be a ridiculous top 5.

Darko is definately developing into something pretty good. Plus you got Boris Diaw who's tearing it up this year, I think he went #21 in that draft. Also Heinrich, Ford, West, Josh Howard....damn that thing was loaded.

[Noop]

I seriously question that you watch basketball if you don't think that Lebron makes the people around him better. He continously puts them in positions to make plays, however it isn't Lebron's fault that Damon Jones or Donyell Marshall can't hit a wide open 3 this year, or that Drew Gooden sucks badly and cannot convert easy scoring chances.

Whatever. He puts them in a position to make plays but they don't... Heat players make plays for D.Wade because they don't want to let him down. They play harder for him and from what i have see of the Cavs I can't say the same. Its my opinion.

[Eaglesfan27]

I seriously question that you watch basketball if you don't think that Lebron makes the people around him better. He continously puts them in positions to make plays, however it isn't Lebron's fault that Damon Jones or Donyell Marshall can't hit a wide open 3 this year, or that Drew Gooden sucks badly and cannot convert easy scoring chances.

My thoughts exactly. Lebron is already doing more to make his teammates better than just about any other player in the league (with Nash and maybe one or two other guys being the exception.)

[Neuqua]

Kirk Hinrich

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Remember when the NBA was relevant?

The NHL MVP thread has more posts and views than this.

Sad.

[rexallllsc]

Whatever. He puts them in a position to make plays but they don't... Heat players make plays for D.Wade because they don't want to let him down. They play harder for him and from what i have see of the Cavs I can't say the same. Its my opinion.

:rolleyes:

[rkmsuf]

Lebron should and will win.

[Neuqua]

Remember when the NBA was relevant?

The NHL MVP thread has more posts and views than this.

Sad.

What was the point of this? Because on one forum hockey has a larger contingent than the NBA, it's all of a sudden more popular?

No one asked you.

[stevew]

Remember when the NBA was relevant?

The NHL MVP thread has more posts and views than this.

Sad.
:rolleyes:

[stevew]

Whatever. He puts them in a position to make plays but they don't... Heat players make plays for D.Wade because they don't want to let him down. They play harder for him and from what i have see of the Cavs I can't say the same. Its my opinion.


And it is wrong. The Heat's supporting cast is pretty amazing for starters.

[MrBug708]

Wade has a much better cast with Shaq then Kobe ever did...

[Pumpy Tudors]

Wow, I read LastWhiteSoxFanStanding's comment much, much differently than Neuqua and stevew did.

[TroyF]

Lebron should and will win.


The should is debateable. I don't think there is a chance in hell he does.

I think it's either going to be Kobe or Billups. Billups is a guy that isn't talked about enough IMO. The guy had a ridiculous 1.48 points per shot attempt. He had a 4.11 assist to turnover ratio. Again, simply nuts.

Combine that with great defense adn I'm not even sure my vote for Kobe would stand up. Still, I think Kboe took a team with even worse talent than the Cavs and made them a playoff team in a tougher conference. I think that has to mean something.

[TroyF]

Wow, I read LastWhiteSoxFanStanding's comment much, much differently than Neuqua and stevew did.


Ditto.

[Schmidty]

Chauncey Billups.

Best point guard in the league and on the best team in the league.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Uh....

All I was really getting at was I wish there were more posts in this thread because I would like to read more people's opinions on the NBA.

Obviously the NBA is still more popular than the NHL and obviously the NBA is not nearly as popular as it once was.

That's all I have to say.

Carry on with the MVP discussion

[bulletsponge]

MVP races are popularity contest, the award means absolutly nothing

[MrBug708]

I'd take Tony Parker over Billups. Duncan and Manu have been hurt a lot this year but Parker has been healthy. Billups has had a healthy team all year and I think Parker has been the better player on their respective teams

[MrBug708]

MVP races are popularity contest, the award means absolutly nothing
Agreed. Kobe is the best player in the league right now, but his MVP status is very much debatable

[stevew]

Agreed. Kobe is the best scorer in the league right now, but his MVP status is very much debatable

*fixed*

And rightfully so, as baskeball is a team sport there is much more to an award than who can score the most.

[Schmidty]

I'd take Tony Parker over Billups.

You are off your rocker. You have a history of hate toward the Pistons since they destroyed your Lakers in 2004.

I'll just chalk your backing of Tony Parker up to that. :)

[TroyF]

I'd take Tony Parker over Billups. Duncan and Manu have been hurt a lot this year but Parker has been healthy. Billups has had a healthy team all year and I think Parker has been the better player on their respective teams


I love Tony Parker. I think he gets far more criticism than what he deserves. He's a terrific basketball player and his 55% shooting showcases that.

But. . . Billups was simply outstanding all year.

4.11 assist/turnover ratio, next closes was Brevin Knight at 3.72. We are talking about a league where only 9 players finished above 3/1 ratio. He finished 8th in the league in three point shooting taking a boatload of three point shots. He played superb defense against both "quick" and "power" type guards.

I think he was better than TP this year.

I vote for Kobe because I think he did a hell of a lot more than score this year. He averaged 35 a night and had a putrid supporting cast. (and that's saying it nicely) He played great D and he led a pretty bad team into the playoffs. (and I think the Lakers have a better than average shot of downing the Suns in round 1)

But Billups aint far behind. James to me, is clearly #3 and then it moves down from there.

[Groundhog]

Spurs are a better team when the offense runs through Tim Duncan rather than Tony Parker. Parker is an exciting, young PG but I'd take Billups over him any day of the week. Billups transformation in to a top flight PG has been amazing, and if I was a Boston Celtics fan I'd be sick to my stomach.

I also think Dirk isn't getting nearly enough love in this poll.

[MrBug708]

You are off your rocker. You have a history of hate toward the Pistons since they destroyed your Lakers in 2004.

I'll just chalk your backing of Tony Parker up to that. :)

Hate towards the pistons? Forgive me if I forgot who won last year?

[MrBug708]

*fixed*

And rightfully so, as baskeball is a team sport there is much more to an award than who can score the most.

No, I had it right the first time

[Eaglesfan27]

Wade has a much better cast with Shaq then Kobe ever did...

That is laughable. Simply, because Shaq was in his prime when he was with Kobe. He is now a shell of what he was.

[TroyF]

That is laughable. Simply, because Shaq was in his prime when he was with Kobe. He is now a shell of what he was.


And the Lakers "role" players were perfect fits. Horry was terrific. Fisher hit some huge shots. Rick Fox provided some D. Those Laker teams had 2 mega stars and then a ton of role players who accepted what their job was and did it well.

Wade has to manage a non healthy Shaq and a team of psychotic, streak shooters. I think the comparison is insane.

That said, if you put Melo or James on the Heat, I'm not so sure they'd have that much of a different record. Of the three current "superstars" from that draft, he clearly has the best supporting cast. A solid inside player, some decent three point shooters and a fairly deep group.

Compare that to James, who gets a decent C and crap or Melo who doesn't have a guy on his team besides him who can hit an open 17 footer consistently, and I'd much rather be in Wade's shoes come playoff time.

[Schmidty]

Hate towards the pistons? Forgive me if I forgot who won last year?

What does that have to do with anything? the Fakers weren't even in the playoffs last season.

[Neuqua]

Schmidty Schmidty Schmidty...

I thought I taught you better than to argue sports with Bug...

[MrBug708]

What does that have to do with anything? the Fakers weren't even in the playoffs last season.

It was more to show I'm pretty indifferent in all things not Los Angeles based. I could careless if the Pistons won it all or lost in the first round.

[Eaglesfan27]

Lebron was just brilliant in his playoff debut. He made all of his teammates look better, put up 32 points, 10 assists, and 11 rebounds in leading his team to a victory that wasn't as close as the scoreboard looked at the end of the game.

[DaddyTorgo]

seeing the stats i'm going to have to go with LeBron. Kobe may have more points, but LeBron's has more assists per game and his team also had a better record.

Kobe just has more points cuz he's a ballhog and the only offensive option, while LeBron at least has other (limited) options.

[DaddyTorgo]

Spurs are a better team when the offense runs through Tim Duncan rather than Tony Parker. Parker is an exciting, young PG but I'd take Billups over him any day of the week. Billups transformation in to a top flight PG has been amazing, and if I was a Boston Celtics fan I'd be sick to my stomach.

I also think Dirk isn't getting nearly enough love in this poll.



AAAAH!!! FUCKING PITINO!!!!

as little a bball fan as I am I was upset when he dealt away Billups without giving the guy a chance to develop at all. I said that then and I still say it now

[miami_fan]

Tremendous performance by the Cavs today. I was impressed by the way Lebron, in his first playoff game, was really under control the whole day. I can't remember him forcing anything whether it was a shot or a pass. Snow came up real big as well

Spurs seemed to have gotten really healthy really quick. 21-4 run in the second quarter. 53-28 Spurs

[Noop]

I echo Miami_fan's comments.

[amdaily]

Lebron, no question.

[JeeberD]

AAAAH!!! FUCKING PITINO!!!!

as little a bball fan as I am I was upset when he dealt away Billups without giving the guy a chance to develop at all. I said that then and I still say it now

The Celts weren't the only team to send him off. The Pistons were what his fourth, fifth team? He just finally found the right team and system in which he could flourish...

[TazFTW]

Arizona Republic is reporting that Steve Nash has won his 2nd MVP award.

[SFL Cat]

It's either Lebron or Kobe. I think Kobe the person hurts Kobe the player's chances. Personally, I go with Lebron.

[SnDvls]

Arizona Republic is reporting that Steve Nash has won his 2nd MVP award.


so is the East Vally Tribune (another AZ paper) which also predicted Boris Diaw will win most improved.

[Groundhog]

so is the East Vally Tribune (another AZ paper) which also predicted Boris Diaw will win most improved.

Diaw is definately the most likely selection, considering the amazing season he's been having.

As for Nash, well, he's a very good PG and I'd love to have him on my Cavs, but I can think of a few other PGs I'd want on my team if I wanted wins right away, let alone players in general, so I can't say he's my MVP. Even without him the Suns would be dangerous and still in the playoffs.

As has been said already, you take away Lebron, Kobe and, to maybe a lesser degree, Dirk Nowitzki from their respective teams and it's a very different story.

[stevew]

Great, another paper MVP.

[stevew]

It seems that Nash got enough first place votes(obviously), and was on a ton of peoples top 3's so that he will win the award. Guy's like Lebron, Kobe, et al, may have gotten some first place votes, but were probably ranked 5-6 on some ballots.

[SackAttack]

Nash is a good player, but I didn't even think he was the NBA's most valuable this year. After the year LeBron had, I can't see him even winning a second award.

[Young Drachma]

I have to agree that I don't know how they're giving the award to Nash. I mean, sure he's a great player and that's been solidified. But...c'mon. Put him in Kobe or Lebron's spot and lemme see if he's really the MVP.

No way this should work. It was reported in an Arizona paper, so maybe their sources are wrong.

Didn't I read somewhere that if he wins his second, that it would put him in some fairly exclusive company?

[Young Drachma]

Diaw is definately the most likely selection, considering the amazing season he's been having.

As for Nash, well, he's a very good PG and I'd love to have him on my Cavs, but I can think of a few other PGs I'd want on my team if I wanted wins right away, let alone players in general, so I can't say he's my MVP. Even without him the Suns would be dangerous and still in the playoffs.

As has been said already, you take away Lebron, Kobe and, to maybe a lesser degree, Dirk Nowitzki from their respective teams and it's a very different story.

Diaw is quite deserving.

[Arles]

If you don't have a clear cut favorite, people like to look at who's team did better than expected and use that as a tie-breaker. Most people figured Cleveland for a 4-5 seed and Dallas was expected to be a top 4 team in the West. So, you are left with Kobe and Nash. I think the problem with Kobe is that Phil gets most of the credit for the Lakers turnaround. With Nash, most people had Phoenix as a 7-seed or lower going into the season without Joe Johnson and Amare. Then, you throw in the injuries to every other big man (Grant, Kurt Thomas, ..) and people are impressed with how Phoenix finished with 55+ wins and the 2-seed. Another thing that really helps Nash is how many people have career years under him each season.

I do agree, though, that if Cleveland ever gets to the 55-win area, Lebron will be a landslide winner as MVP. If the Lakers could win their division, Kobe would probably win as well. But, it's hard to give the MVP to a player on a team not in the top 3 of either league.

[stevew]

Phoenix had 54 wins and was the third best team in their conference. Cleveland had 50 wins and was the third best team in their conference. The
West is ahead of the East, surely. If you had said that Larry Hughes would miss 50 games before the season, people would have had the Cavs as a 7th or 8th seed. I'd like to see the voting, but it seems to be pointing towards a win by plurality.

[Fouts]

Lebron was awful last night. Looks like the Wiz figured out how to D him.

[Groundhog]

Lebron was awful last night. Looks like the Wiz figured out how to D him.

From what is being said in the other thread, it had more to do with Lebron just playing poorly and missing everything he threw up rather than Washington's D.

[Vince]

Lebron was awful last night. Looks like the Wiz figured out how to D him.

Didn't he have 27 points and 9 boards?

Yeah, yeah, 10 turnovers, but still.

[MrBug708]

In other news, Kobe is no longer #8, but will be considered #24. Time for some more money I guess.

That and the fat he probably will want the Lakers to retire two numbers

[Young Drachma]

I was thinking he'd want the Lakers to retire two numbers, too.

[TroyF]

Didn't he have 27 points and 9 boards?

Yeah, yeah, 10 turnovers, but still.


No. No "but still."

Lebron had a horrible effort. He's going to score 27-30 a night. He's just to talented. Ditto Melo, Wade, Kobe. Those guys are getting their points.

Lebron is the PG for Cleveland. People can talk about him being a SF or whatever, but EVERYTHING they do on offense runs through him. He can't get all the credit for Cleveland being in the position they are in with such a horrific supporting cast and then not be a part of the blame when they lose.

As for Nash being the MVP. Ahhhh. . . I don't think so. I don't even think he was the best PG in the league. (Billups and Parker both had better years IMHO)

But it is what it is. I don't think Lebron deserved the award this year and am glad he didn't get it. He doesn't play D nearly well enough to deserve that award right now. I really wish they'd have given it to a more deserving player, but oh well.

[stevew]

NBA Most Valuable Player Voting
(First-place votes in parentheses)
Player Team Points
Steve Nash (57) Suns 924
LeBron James (16) Cavs 688
Dirk Nowitzki (14) Mavs 544
Kobe Bryant (22) Lakers 483
Chauncey Billups (15) Pistons 430
Dwyane Wade Heat 87
Elton Brand (1) Clippers 50
Tim Duncan Spurs 33
Tony Parker Spurs 9
Allen Iverson Sixers 1
Shawn Marion Suns 1


Final Voting numbers.

[miami_fan]

NBA Most Valuable Player Voting
(First-place votes in parentheses)
Player Team Points
Steve Nash (57) Suns 924
LeBron James (16) Cavs 688
Dirk Nowitzki (14) Mavs 544
Kobe Bryant (22) Lakers 483
Chauncey Billups (15) Pistons 430
Dwyane Wade Heat 87
Elton Brand (1) Clippers 50
Tim Duncan Spurs 33
Tony Parker Spurs 9
Allen Iverson Sixers 1
Shawn Marion Suns 1


Final Voting numbers.

WOW That was not even close. Very surprising.

[oykib]

NBA Most Valuable Player Voting
(First-place votes in parentheses)
Player Team Points
Steve Nash (57) Suns 924
LeBron James (16) Cavs 688
Dirk Nowitzki (14) Mavs 544
Kobe Bryant (22) Lakers 483
Chauncey Billups (15) Pistons 430
Dwyane Wade Heat 87
Elton Brand (1) Clippers 50
Tim Duncan Spurs 33
Tony Parker Spurs 9
Allen Iverson Sixers 1
Shawn Marion Suns 1


Final Voting numbers.

That's a joke. I said it last year and it's still true.

You tell any GM in the NBA the exact production that every player had this year would be duplicated next year and then give them the ability to take any one player and not even Isiah would be dumb enough to take Nash first.

People will look back on this era and ask what the MVP voters were smoking.

You can twist up any argument you like. But numbers are numbers. NBA MVP voters are jackasses.

I also wonder at the integrity of the voters. The fact that Kobe was number two in first place votes and still finished significantly behind the other contenders in points shows that there were an awful lot of haters that gave him the Ted Williams treatment because they disapprove of him personally.

[stevew]

Better numbers

Player, Team 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Total Pts
Steve Nash, Phoenix 57 32 20 8 6 924
LeBron James, Cleveland 16 41 33 23 7 688
Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas 14 22 25 36 17 544
Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers 22 11 18 22 30 483
Chauncey Billups, Detroit 15 13 22 18 25 430
Dwyane Wade, Miami - 3 4 9 19 87
Elton Brand, LA Clippers 1 1 2 3 14 50
Tim Duncan, San Antonio - 2 - 6 1 33
Tony Parker, San Antonio - - 1 - 4 9
Allen Iverson, Philadelphia - - - - 1 1
Shawn Marion, Phoenix - - - - 1 1

[Logan]

and not even Isiah would be dumb enough to take Nash first.


:D

[Young Drachma]

What a joke.

[skrath]

This gets me soooooo angry. Especially the margins between Nash and LeBron. There was no way, in any measure, statistical or otherwise, that Nash deserved that award.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

It should have been closer, but statistics are not everything in MVP voting.

[oykib]

It should have been closer, but statistics are not everything in MVP voting.

I hear this bullshit all the time. Construct an argument that makes up fo the vast statistical difference between Nash and Kobe/LeBron. Or tell me what intangibles Nash has that outweigh Billups's, who has the same statistical value, but whose team was better this year.

I don't believe leadership or whatever are valueless. I just think that they are the tiebreaker. The problem is that Nash isn't close to either LeBron or Kobe. Kobe, particularly, has significantly superior offensive numbers and is one of the best defensive players in the league.

This is the second year in a row where Nash has won the MVP, when he wasn't one of the five best players in the league.

[Anthony]

if Nash was black you wouldn't be this mad. it's ok for white people to win the NBA MVP award.

[Fouts]

Here's the formula for winning the NBA MVP;

(pick n' roll * 10) + (3 pointer * 3) + 4 layups / per game = MVP!

[oykib]

if Nash was black you wouldn't be this mad. it's ok for white people to win the NBA MVP award.

Sure, I would.

If you were a GM, would you take him over the other players in the poll?

You could plug LeBron into Nash's slot and they'd be a better team. The reverse isn't true.

The truth is that small B-Ball players have a lesser value than bigger ones. For a guard to be MVP, he's got to really outstrip bigger ballplayers, or be one of those rare great, tall guards. Nash doesn't and isn't.

How many PGs have won two MVP awards? Is Nash really that level of player?

In ten year we are going to look at this like we do JUan Gonzalez's MVPs in baseball.

BTW, No one pulled out the race card before you.

[sabotai]

So, if I understand people, points per game is the ONLY stat that means anything in basketball. Got it.

[Eaglesfan27]

So, if I understand people, points per game is the ONLY stat that means anything in basketball. Got it.


If that was true, Kobe would have won in this poll.

[Young Drachma]

There are times when Nash isn't even the best player on his own team and if Kobe had just one other player, this would look even more absurd when the Suns were out of the playoffs in the first round.

LeBron is working miracles in Cleveland and somehow I'm supposed to listen to a bunch of folks say with a straight face that Nash is the MVP this year? I bought it last year, given how much better the Suns got. But two years in a row? Even if they hated Kobe, I guess they didn't want to give it to a 21-year old that came out of HS, even if he is arguably the best player in the NBA.

As for the race thing, hell...Nash isn't even the best white ballplayer in basketball right now. Do you WATCH Dirk Nowitkzi? That dude is out of this world and can do so many things.

[Young Drachma]

David Stern is on TV now doing a happy dance giving Nash his 2nd MVP award.

[Groundhog]

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/48407

Steve Nash Calls Second Consecutive MVP Award 'Some Kind Of Sick Joke'
May 11, 2006 | Onion Sports

PHOENIX—Upon receiving his second straight MVP award on Monday, Phoenix Suns point guard Steve Nash accused the NBA of "being out to make a fool of [him]." "Listen, it was kind of funny the first time. I mean, I can take a joke. My family was quite embarrassed, but that's beside the point," Nash told those gathered at the ceremony. "But this is just getting ridiculous. Look, I get it—I'm short, white, and Canadian. Ha ha, real fuckin' funny. You sick bastards. Did Amare Stoudemire put you up to this?" When asked about the chances of him winning a third MVP award in as many years, Nash emitted a terse laugh while glaring at the reporters and drumming his fingers on the podium.

[st.cronin]

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/48407

Steve Nash Calls Second Consecutive MVP Award 'Some Kind Of Sick Joke'
May 11, 2006 | Onion Sports

PHOENIX—Upon receiving his second straight MVP award on Monday, Phoenix Suns point guard Steve Nash accused the NBA of "being out to make a fool of [him]." "Listen, it was kind of funny the first time. I mean, I can take a joke. My family was quite embarrassed, but that's beside the point," Nash told those gathered at the ceremony. "But this is just getting ridiculous. Look, I get it—I'm short, white, and Canadian. Ha ha, real fuckin' funny. You sick bastards. Did Amare Stoudemire put you up to this?" When asked about the chances of him winning a third MVP award in as many years, Nash emitted a terse laugh while glaring at the reporters and drumming his fingers on the podium.

hahahahaha vintage

[Vinatieri for Prez]

On a final note (and I know I said statistics aren't everything), there is basketball sports guy up here in Seattle on KJR -- David Locke -- who is a total stats nut. He basically has come with his own sabermetrics for basketball based on an efficiency rating for each player against the league average. He says he himself was shocked that Nash won the award, but when he ran his stats, he said Nash came out statistically better than anyone else in the league by -- as he described it -- "eons." So I guess the stats are in the eye of the beholder. The guy has a column online, I'm going to see if he a write up on it.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

No couldn't find any write up, but he talked about it on his radio show. Of course, I got nothing to back this up, but just a point about what statistics show you.

[oykib]

On a final note (and I know I said statistics aren't everything), there is basketball sports guy up here in Seattle on KJR -- David Locke -- who is a total stats nut. He basically has come with his own sabermetrics for basketball based on an efficiency rating for each player against the league average. He says he himself was shocked that Nash won the award, but when he ran his stats, he said Nash came out statistically better than anyone else in the league by -- as he described it -- "eons." So I guess the stats are in the eye of the beholder. The guy has a column online, I'm going to see if he a write up on it.



Year Ag Tm Lg G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
1989 22 PHO NBA 81 39.2 7.0 13.9 0.0 0.3 6.3 7.1 0.6 3.6 4.2 12.2 1.7 0.3 4.0 2.8 20.4
1990 23 PHO NBA 74 37.6 7.8 15.7 0.1 0.6 6.8 8.1 0.6 3.1 3.6 11.4 1.3 0.2 3.6 1.9 22.5
1991 24 PHO NBA 77 36.0 7.7 14.9 0.1 0.6 6.7 8.0 0.7 2.8 3.5 10.1 2.1 0.1 3.5 2.3 22.2
1992 25 PHO NBA 78 37.2 6.9 14.4 0.1 0.6 5.7 7.1 0.8 3.0 3.7 10.7 1.5 0.3 3.5 2.3 19.7

Year Ag Tm Lg G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
2003 28 DAL NBA 82 33.1 6.3 13.6 1.4 3.3 3.8 4.1 0.8 2.1 2.9 7.3 1.0 0.1 2.3 1.6 17.7
2004 29 DAL NBA 78 33.5 5.1 10.8 1.3 3.3 2.9 3.2 0.8 2.2 3.0 8.8 0.9 0.1 2.7 1.8 14.5
2005 30 PHO NBA 75 34.3 5.7 11.4 1.3 2.9 2.8 3.2 0.8 2.6 3.3 11.5 1.0 0.1 3.3 1.8 15.5
2006 31 PHO NBA 79 35.5 6.8 13.4 1.9 4.3 3.3 3.5 0.6 3.6 4.2 10.5 0.8 0.2 3.5 1.5 18.8


Player number two is , of course, Nash. Player number one is a guy who never even ranked in the MVP voting.

KJ versus Steve Nash (http://www.basketball-reference.com/labs/option.cgi?I=johnske02%3AKevin+Johnson&C=nashst01%3ASteve+Nash&submit=Select)

[JS19]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-GreatestPointGuards

According to these voters, hes the 9th best PG of all-time.

[stevew]

KJ was a beast.

[oykib]

My point was that Lebron and Kode's numbers this year were both comparable to MJ's back in KJ's hey day. KJ never sniffed the award.

But KJ's numbers were essentially the same as Nash's over the past few. What makes Nash an MVP when KJ wasn't close? It can't be record. The Suns back then always won 55 games or so, too.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I'm with you. My point is that statistics can go both ways and those who kept arguing Nash's stats didn't match up with Kobe or Lebron, which was not necessarily the case, depending on how you look at it. So, I agree that it does have more to do with it than stats. It's ok to argue that Kobe or Lebron were more valuable, but not necessarily better statistically.

I think the better way to look at the award: it is not the NBA MVP award, it is the award that goes to the guy that most sportswriters think is the most valuable player in the NBA (and now appears to be the 9th best PG of all time) -- and won that in a landslide. That's all the award meant.

[oykib]

I'm with you. My point is that statistics can go both ways and those who kept arguing Nash's stats didn't match up with Kobe or Lebron, which was not necessarily the case, depending on how you look at it. So, I agree that it does have more to do with it than stats. It's ok to argue that Kobe or Lebron were more valuable, but not necessarily better statistically.

I think the better way to look at the award: it is not the NBA MVP award, it is the award that goes to the guy that most sportswriters think is the most valuable player in the NBA (and now appears to be the 9th best PG of all time) -- and won that in a landslide. That's all the award meant.

9th best PG is bullshit. His last two years have been very good. But KJ's best two years were arguably better and his 3rd and fourth best years were definitely better. And that's not even mentioning the parade of HOFers that were better.

Giving out these bullshit awards makes Nash look like an all-timer. He's not. Look at the list of Multiple MVP award winners:

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (6)
Michael Jordan (5)
Bill Russell (5)
Wilt Chamberlain (4)
Larry Bird (3)
Moses Malone (3)
Magic Johnson (3)
Julius Erving (1 + 3 ABA awards)
Bob Pettit (2)
Tim Duncan (2)
Steve Nash (2)

One of these things is not like the others.

First of all, point guards don't win MVPs. Only Nash and Magic have won more than one. The difference is that Magic could contribute like a good PF down low as well.

Even Oscar Robertson only won one.

It's a f*ckin' joke.

[stevew]

Man, the more i think about it, the more it pisses me off. Lebron was my guy, but i figured him or kobe would win. Goddamnit i hate steve nash, he doesn't play a lick of defense, and he's surrounded by great players. He makes them better, but their team would still win a lot of games with another player in there. Now he's some "historic" player when he's never even played in the NBA finals after about 10 seasons. I was going to change the title of the thread to "retards elect Nash MVP again," but thought that the mentally handicapped would have better sense.

[stevew]

Hell, Chauncey Billips would even have been a better choice.

[st.cronin]

Settle down, stevey. It's not a big deal.

[stevew]

Well, I would have blown off steam in another thread, but unfortunately it got locked.

[oykib]

Man, the more i think about it, the more it pisses me off. Lebron was my guy, but i figured him or kobe would win. Goddamnit i hate steve nash, he doesn't play a lick of defense, and he's surrounded by great players. He makes them better, but their team would still win a lot of games with another player in there. Now he's some "historic" player when he's never even played in the NBA finals after about 10 seasons. I was going to change the title of the thread to "retards elect Nash MVP again," but thought that the mentally handicapped would have better sense.

I'm with you, Stevie!

I'm gonna go pour some Molson down the toilet in protest.

[Pumpy Tudors]

This is bullshit. No Pau Gasol. Bullshit. Bullshit bullshit bullshit.

Shit.

[MrBug708]

I dont remember Gasol in the playoffs...?

[JeeberD]

I dont remember Gasol in the playoffs...?

He was. And he got his ass SWEPT.

[INDalltheway]

Anybody watch Around the Horn today? JA Adande gave Steve Nash one of the best nicknames I have ever heard. He called him Steve "Mr. Drummond" Nash because he takes care of black people better than any white person since Phil Drummond of Diff'rent Strokes.. I haven't lost it like that in a while.

[Pumpy Tudors]

He was. And he got his ass SWEPT.
:(

[Noop]

Wade bitches. He carried his team to the Title.

[braggtd]

I agree, with the exception that he has a bit more talent around him. Awesome player (man I hate him)! Sorry, sore losing mavs fan here. Oh, well go Cowboys
and Roll Tide Roll!!!!