EU III

[MrBug708]

Europa Universalis III information (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233044)

Game looks pretty good. They have a beta testing journal as well

[Abe Sargent]

Excellent reading. As far as I'm concerned, EU2 is one of the top ten computer games of all time, so I'm really lookig forward to III.

-Anxiety

[ISiddiqui]

Screenies look alright I guess (they'll be better at launch, I'm sure). Though I've seen nothing that indicates this version will be more fun than the last two. I've always seen the series as a great idea that fails in practice and feels like more work than play.

[Runtheball]

Screenies look alright I guess (they'll be better at launch, I'm sure). Though I've seen nothing that indicates this version will be more fun than the last two. I've always seen the series as a great idea that fails in practice and feels like more work than play.

I also was disappointed in EUI and II. I always struggled with the economics, and could never really enjoy what seemed like the greatest game setting I could ask for.

When I switched to Crusader Kings, I had a blast. Much more manageable and fun game, with a very similar feel to it.

[Barkeep49]

I loved the marriage aspect of Crusader Kings, but won't lie when I say that I missed the EU setting and depth. HOI was just too much for me as I'm not really a millitary stragegist and so the more abstract settings of the Middle Ages is much more my style. I am really looking forward to EUIII after the first couple of patches.

[path12]

Screenies look alright I guess (they'll be better at launch, I'm sure). Though I've seen nothing that indicates this version will be more fun than the last two. I've always seen the series as a great idea that fails in practice and feels like more work than play.

Ditto. This game should be right in the middle of my sweet spot, but it's always left me cold in the end. But being a sucker I'll likely read reviews, get all excited and buy the damn thing eventually.

There are times when computer gaming feels a lot like Charlie Brown running up to kick the football.....

[ISiddiqui]

Apt metaphor, and I'm sure it'll happen to me again as well. Think this will be the one that grabs me... and then find it on the shelf 2 weeks later.

[SunDevil]

Looking forward to this game as well. I really liked how the devs for II would post a new patch and say, "Yea, I came home from the bar tonight, and decided to fix a couple of issues. " And of course it was 3 or 4 years after release. I sometimes wish that Jim would post a message like that.

You have to respect that. :)

[Cringer]

Maybe I missed something with these games, but I just couldn't get into EU II. Not sure why.

[Abe Sargent]

Funny. I think EU2 and CK were so good that they ruined Civ for me. I got Civ IV and while I understood its quality, I put it down after less thanb a week and have never picked it up again. It just lacked the depth and epicness of EU2 and CK.

-Anxiety

[sabotai]

Funny. I think EU2 and CK were so good that they ruined Civ for me. I got Civ IV and while I understood its quality, I put it down after less thanb a week and have never picked it up again. It just lacked the depth and epicness of EU2 and CK.

-Anxiety

Kind of the same with me. I never got all that into Civ IV, but I played EUII a lot. Another game that ruined Civ for me was Total War (all versions so far). Even though Civ has a much longer timer period, it's just not that fun to me anymore because it doesn't have much depth.

[PraetorianX]

Ah, EU III is a class well above even EU II. It truly is. I wish I could explain all the reasons why (Beta NDA) but I can't. Just read the Dev. Diaries and you'll get a small fraction of this great game.

[sabotai]

Ah, EU III is a class well above even EU II. It truly is. I wish I could explain all the reasons why (Beta NDA) but I can't. Just read the Dev. Diaries and you'll get a small fraction of this great game.

Cool. I am kind of worried that it's just going to be EUII with 3D graphics (just looked at screenies so far, haven't read any diaries)

[Warhammer]

My problem with all the EU games have been that they have too much of a military bent. I guess that is because many players try to conquer the world, but they need to come up with a way to really make it difficult for someone to conquer the world. There is a reason why no one has been able to do it yet.

[Abe Sargent]

Do you *really* mean EU instead of something else, like TW? EU And CK have built in badboy rates that make open conquest very, very difficult. CK has a desmesne penalty for having too many provinces. You really have to overcome a lot in these games in order to go a-conquering. In CK, you don't even have standing armies and having an army costs a lot of friggin' gold. EU doesn;t even have more than three army types - artillery, calvary and infantry. That's about as simple a tactical engine as you can get. The emphasis in these games is obviously away from war.

On the other hand, in TW, the game is obviously bent towards war. The difference bewteen TW and EU when it comes to conflict could not be greater.

EU is not too much of a miltary bent. I think you might be thinking TW instead (or maybe HoI)

-Anxiety

[Karim]

I'm with Cringer and ISiddiqui on this one. I disliked having to start 'in the middle of time' unlike 'an open-ended beginning' like Civ but I bought EUII on the advice of FOFC. I just couldn't get into it and it felt much more like repetitive work than a computer game.

[sabotai]

I tried conquering the world in EUII. It got to the point that I was raising armies to fight rebellions so much that I was going bankrupt and my borders were extremely vulnerable to invasion. I had to hand out independence to provinces like they were candy just to keep my nation from collapsing horribly into itself.

Had a ton of fun doing it, though. :)

I do understand the war bent, though. It does anly have 3 types of units, but every other aspect of the game is very simplistic too. But looking at the advancement of the game, most of it seems to center around warfare advancement. Which makes sense, since that time period was filled with wars.

The one thing I didn't try to do (maybe I'll break the game out and try again) was to just take over a solid, small nation and try to build an economic leader. It does feel like you are always getting pulled into war at some point.

But the whole bent towards combat is true for just about every 4x style game. It's just a matter of how much bend there is.

[PraetorianX]

Cool. I am kind of worried that it's just going to be EUII with 3D graphics (just looked at screenies so far, haven't read any diaries)

Don't worry, it has many significant advances. I would say that, imho, it's more of a jump forward than EU II was to EU I. Can't really get into the details, just follow along with Johan's Dev. Diaries and you'll start see what I mean. Though they don't show anywhere near everything. :)

BTW, Dev. Diaries are here:


The 4th of April Diary (http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239934)
The 11th of April Diary (http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=241263)
The 25th of April Diary (http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=243446)
The 3rd of May Diary (http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=244767)
The 10th of May Diary (http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=245829)
The 17th of May Diary (http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=246874)

Should be a new one released tomorrow (Wed). :)

[SunDevil]

Thanks PraetorianX

[JeffR]

EUII did have a nasty learning curve. But once the intricacies become second nature and you hit the point where you feel like you have more control over how you do than the game does, it's a rich, deep playing experience (it's a lot like FM in that respect, I think.) It's also mod-friendly, and Paradox's user base has done some amazing things with it - if you haven't played in a while, grab the newest version of the AGC-EEP historical mod and take a look.

On the downside, I'm probably going to wait until there's a patch or two out before I buy EUIII. They provide great post-release support, but version 1.0 of their games always seems to have some serious problems. And the really good user-produced stuff doesn't show up until a while after release, anyhow.

[Karim]

Well, this thread has made me break out EUII again to give it another shot. I'll try again to take over a smaller country in Asia, Africa, South America or the Middle East to "try" and stay away from the "heat" and give myself time to colonize and develop.

Thanks for the AGC-EEP tip, JeffR. I never tried that before.

[SunDevil]

AGC-EEP mod is awesome, it adds so much more to the game. I have to quit looking in this thread though, because I am about to reinstall EUII. :)

[Abe Sargent]

For reference, here are a pair of my EU2 dynasties:

Mataram Risinghttp://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=4726&highlight=mataram

The Saga of Granada http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=10023&highlight=mataram


-Anxiety

[Warhammer]

Do you *really* mean EU instead of something else, like TW? EU And CK have built in badboy rates that make open conquest very, very difficult. CK has a desmesne penalty for having too many provinces. You really have to overcome a lot in these games in order to go a-conquering. In CK, you don't even have standing armies and having an army costs a lot of friggin' gold. EU doesn;t even have more than three army types - artillery, calvary and infantry. That's about as simple a tactical engine as you can get. The emphasis in these games is obviously away from war.

On the other hand, in TW, the game is obviously bent towards war. The difference bewteen TW and EU when it comes to conflict could not be greater.

EU is not too much of a miltary bent. I think you might be thinking TW instead (or maybe HoI)

-Anxiety

No, I really mean EU. The Bad Boy wars actually helped to a certain extent because when everyone went to war with you, you could fight them without having to declare war and take the stability hit.

If you play for VPs, it gets extremely easy by the middle of the game to gain monopolies in CoTs outside of Europe by protecting your map and increasing one of the techs (can't remember off hand). Military VPs were easy to come by through wars. The difficulty that I had was with Mission VPs, because many nations would get easy to fulfill missions, while others would get conquer X province in 10 years which was challenging.

My ultimate problem with the game was how should I play it? I do not enjoy taking a third rate area in Africa and playing them. As a conquest game, there are many better games out there. Economically, it is just wait until a couple of merchants pop up and send them to a CoT two at a time. This is a game I should like, but I wind up having so many house rules, I wind up asking myself why bother?

[PraetorianX]

BTW, the new dev. diary is here:

31st of May Diary (http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=248999)

[MrBug708]

For reference, here are a pair of my EU2 dynasties:

Mataram Risinghttp://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=4726&highlight=mataram

The Saga of Granada http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=10023&highlight=mataram


-Anxiety

The Granada dynasty was awesome

[Abe Sargent]

Thanks!


-Anxiety

[MrBug708]

Time for another!

[John Galt]

The Granada dynasty was awesome

Agreed. I was sad to see it die. I'm pretty sure Anxiety's dynasties alone got me to buy EU II and CK.

[Abe Sargent]

*Shakes Head at MrBug708*

Thanks JG!


-Anxiety

[Karim]

I installed the historical mod and then went through the tutorial to refresh how things went. I then went to start the Grand Campaign. I spent a long time reading about the nations, making changes - CRASH! I reloaded, spent more time doing the same thing - CRASH!

I reinstalled the default EUII with the 1.09 patch forgetting about the mod until I can actually get some gameplay going. I noticed many fewer nations in the Grand Campaign, something I appreciated. I decided to start as the Zulus. With permanent terra-incognita (something I hate) I'm stuck on the coast. I have cassus belli against the province next to me and natives to the north. There's hardly any improvement for me to do and a limit on the number of forces. It was a waste of time for me to fight the natives because I NEVER got any settlers after over 20 years of gametime. I basically let it run until Zimbabwe came and conquered me.

I really hate 'scenarios'. I wish things weren't so fixed in stone. The only nation and scenario that sort of gives me what I'm looking for is China in the Grand Campaign. It just feels like a historical replay game which isn't for me.

I wanted to like EUII and gave it several hours but Civ is more my pace.

[Abe Sargent]

Starting as out there as the Zulus may not be your cup of tea. I began as Wallachia and got my you know what handed to me on three consecutive attempts. Then I jumped to Trebizond and ultimately won my first Grand Campaign. I think good places to start are out of the way, but still in the area, if that makes sense. Eire, Scandinavia, Middle East, etc. Steer clear of Iberia, France, HRE, England, Russia, Austria, Byzantium, the Turks, and things way out there, like my Mataram, until you have some experience.

I tried starting as the Zulus once and was bored out of my skull.

-Anxiety

[PraetorianX]

I installed the historical mod and then went through the tutorial to refresh how things went. I then went to start the Grand Campaign. I spent a long time reading about the nations, making changes - CRASH! I reloaded, spent more time doing the same thing - CRASH!

Were you loading the game via the EUII icon or the AGCEEP icon? That could be the problem. Of course, AGCEEP is still in Beta because they don't know when to stop adding more stuff and thus it'll never be finished, so it could just be FUBAR'ed.

I reinstalled the default EUII with the 1.09 patch forgetting about the mod until I can actually get some gameplay going. I noticed many fewer nations in the Grand Campaign, something I appreciated. I decided to start as the Zulus. With permanent terra-incognita (something I hate) I'm stuck on the coast. I have cassus belli against the province next to me and natives to the north. There's hardly any improvement for me to do and a limit on the number of forces. It was a waste of time for me to fight the natives because I NEVER got any settlers after over 20 years of gametime. I basically let it run until Zimbabwe came and conquered me.

Zulus is a bad place to start with. Not much in the way of neighbors, crap tech and crap tech group...just a very bad place to start. I'd suggest a german minor or something if you want to play a smaller country.

I really hate 'scenarios'. I wish things weren't so fixed in stone. The only nation and scenario that sort of gives me what I'm looking for is China in the Grand Campaign. It just feels like a historical replay game which isn't for me.

I wanted to like EUII and gave it several hours but Civ is more my pace.

You'll like EUIII, you can literally start anytime within the game's time frame. If you want to jump into the middle of the 30 Years War, you can start there. Wanna start in the War of Spannish Succession? You can start there, too. War of the Roses? No problem. Time of Troubles in Russia? Start there too. Any date at all, and you'll start with the historical situation at that time with regards to marriages, alliances, wars, etc. :)

[PraetorianX]

The 8th of June Diary (http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250305)

A nice diary further showing the amazing amount of modability (from a fanchise already known for modability) in EUIII. It truly is, as Johan described, 'A modders wet dream.'



Also, for those of you into other Paradox games, a new download only expansion is to be released for Victoria - Empire Under the Sun, "Victoria - Revolutions" (http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5493568#post5493568) which adds several interesting new features (Delete factory button, split pops button, revised factory building (apparently capitalist pops can build factories themselves under the right government), a HoI2 Doomsday converter and more.

Sounds great for a very underrated game.

[MrBigglesworth]

What's the latest release date they have given?

[PraetorianX]

15th of June Dev. Diary (http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251244)

Ah, sorry, nearly forgot to post this one for any interested parties. Now you get a look into the intrigues of the Pope and yet more examples of the amazing modability of the game. :)

And MrBigglesworth, the only release date announced is Q1 '07.

[Abe Sargent]

Papal elections via control of the cardinals, like the old Machievelli game. Nice!

-Anxiety

[ice4277]

This is one game (EUII, that is) that I really wish I had the time to get into.

[PraetorianX]

Ah, sorry folks, I've slacked off and missed quite a few diaries. The game has advanced quite a lot over the past couple months and Johan and company are taking in a second round of beta testers (you can apply at Paradox's website, if you wish). Game still has a long way to go however, but as you can see it's looking better and better.

21st of June Diary (http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252244) - Here Johan shows off some more of the amazing modability of the game, you can now mod tech groups! Also we have an example of an event. :)

28th of June Diary (http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253281) - And here is yet more modability, this time with trading goods. Also shown are the province improvements that can be built in provinces.

9th of August Diary (http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=259260) - Here you can see how easy it is to mod culture groups in the game, a great improvement over early generations. It really is a modders wet dream. ;) Also shown is a screenshot of the vastly improved peace negotiation.

16th of August Diary (http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260247) - And another example of modability, the very dynamic event system for EUIII. The best event system Paradox has made yet, by far. And then you get to see an example of a 'Succession War' and an explaination about how monarchs are generated with the new non-deterministic approach Paradox is taking.

23rd of August Diary (http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261543) - And here you can see the National Idea's, also modable...these are the naval ones. Then we get a screenie showing armies and the much improved political mapmode. Makes it much easier to see what provinces are occupied.

[MrBug708]

THey should just release it .:)

[Izulde]

I like that they're getting away from the wholly deterministic setup. That's one of the things that bothered me the most about EU2. It sounds like they might be trying to put in some type of dynastic setup and if they are, EU3 might become the first EU I <3.

[MrBigglesworth]

THey should just release it .:)
You must not be familiar with Pardox releases if you want them to release it early :)

They make amazing games, you just have to pay to be a beta tester for a couple patches. Definitely worth it, though, I still play EU and used to be addicted to HOI.

[Flasch186]

You must not be familiar with Pardox releases if you want them to release it early :)

They make amazing games, you just have to pay to be a beta tester for a couple patches. Definitely worth it, though, I still play EU and used to be addicted to HOI.

I buy all of their games but have the hardest time getting into them....

Bigs, can you direct me to some of the pathces for both EU2 and HOI and some things that will make me get more hooked on them?

[MrBigglesworth]

I buy all of their games but have the hardest time getting into them....

Bigs, can you direct me to some of the pathces for both EU2 and HOI and some things that will make me get more hooked on them?
I haven't played HOI in a couple years, I'm a bad source for that. About three years ago I played online like 3 or 4 nights a week for three or four hours each, and that just wasn't healthy. I loved the diplomacy of it though, I would play as the Soviet Union and play both sides against each other.

You can go here for the latest EU2 patch:

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=222052

I don't know what else to say to get you hooked on it, I guess you just have to like history and/or global conquest. I've never played MP EU2, if we got a FOFC EU2 network game together I would be all for it though.

[Izulde]

I've heard good things about the Doomsday Exapansion for HoI2 but haven't picked it up yet since I couldn't get into vanilla HoI2.

Might give the Vicky expansion a shot since I do want to love that game, but just can't quite yet because I have trouble getting the hang of it.

[MrBigglesworth]

I could never get into Vicky. I've never played the final version though, I betetested it and I think that ruined it for me.

[Flasch186]

what is Vicky?

BTW I cant seem to find my EU2 disc anyways :(

[Barkeep49]

Vicky = Victoria.

[dbd1963]

I just got Victoria for Mac.. a very steep learning curve. They suggest you start with a country that is out of the way and won't be bothered, so I took Brazil, following a game guide I found out about. I'll give it a good chance for sure, but dang it's hard!

[PraetorianX]

Yes, EUIII is much more dynamic and far far far less deterministic than EUII. I can't really get into detail about it obviously, but the system Paradox has worked out does a very good job. :)

As for 'paying to beta test'...they're more recent releases (at least on the EU engine) have been much much more stable upon release. Especially HoI2.


And btw, if you wanna get back into HoI...I recommend getting Hearts of Iron 2: Doomsday. You don't need HoI2 vanilla for it as it's a standalone expansion that includes HoI2 in it. A great improvement over HoI2 which was a massive improvement over HoI1 (which I was never overly fond of my self).


And yes, Victoria has a very steep learning curve. Although the expansion helps this somewhat by making some economies (laissez faire for instance) have the capitalists fork up their own money to build factories and such.

[dbd1963]

Revolutions isn't available for Mac yet that I can find.

I'm looking forward to EUIII but it'll be an even longer wait for the Mac port. I'm not going to get EUII, so Victoria is the only "practice" I'm going to get.

I wanted to get CK, but all I can find on the Mac forum is complaints about CTDs and bugs. They say it's in the PC code so until a patch is released and then ported, I'll wait.

[Flasch186]

damn Paradox just got me for 5 games.

CK

EU2

Vicky

revolutions

HOI doomsday


Im going to be busy for awhile....

[Flasch186]

great
now i cant get the games installed.

I have the .ztormp files downloaded but the gameragate program didnt ask me to install and the computer has no idea what those extensions are. any ideas?

[dbd1963]

I would say go look at the forums:

hxxp://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=302

[PraetorianX]

great
now i cant get the games installed.

I have the .ztormp files downloaded but the gameragate program didnt ask me to install and the computer has no idea what those extensions are. any ideas?

The one time I used GamersGate (Doomsday) it worked just fine. You have to install from the GamersGate software. You bring that up, click on the game you want to install, and there should be a button that says 'Install'.

Otherwise, check out the GamersGate help forum on the Paradox Forums.

[Flasch186]

got it....thanks for your help...the eject button is "install"

[Peregrine]

Just to bump this thread, pre-orders of the game are now available and the release date is January 23rd. I can't wait, I've been following the dev diaries and this one looks like it will be great.

[Icy]

Wow great news, I'll buy it for sure.