Alright boyz, here we go!!! OOTP2006 First Impressions Thread!

[MrBug708]

It's not from mulitple leagues I dont believe, it just doesnt erase the history on it's own from that league...I think where you get semi histories is when you have two commishes though and some of the items are left off

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?t=121121

Yes indeedy, this sure looks like a major upgrade worth paying for.

[timmynausea]

Well, if you guys start playing out your games, you always have this to look forward too. :)

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?t=121121


I have seen that, too. I imported the 1991 rosters just to mess around with. I only managed one spring training game and let the AI do subs. One of our starting pitchers, John Smiley, ended up in centerfield toward the end of the game for no apparent reason.

A week or two after that when the regular season was about to start I could no longer sim any games as a random minor league team that was not affiliated to my organization didn't have enough active players. So much for that career, I guess.

I realize that others have pointed that problem out in this thread. It just seemed silly what a disaster my first attempt to play this game was.

[Maple Leafs]

In both OOTP 6.5 leagues I've been a part of, new draftees have like a decade of history. And I've seen stats for future years. It's almost like if you have multiple leagues installed, it reuses entries from one league in another, so that if one league is a decade out, and you get to the draft in the current league, it grabs an open slot from the first league but doesn't clear out the data (so in an online league, if the commish is in multiple leagues, new draftee players seem to have awards/injuries/transaction data from one of the other leagues).

It's really freaky, and really annoying.
I think that's a case of player numbers being re-used. So Joe Superstar happens to be players #1234. He retires, Johnny Prospect gets randomly assigned his number, and the history file isn't erased.

[Sweed]

This is going to be the most frustrating game of all time. It's so good in so many ways, but can be so annoying.

You get the stupid SISA scout ratings in the HTML and they are always incomplete. I can not stand when I am looking at a pitcher and it has all their batting ratings, but their pitching ratings are all dashes. Thanks for freaking nothing.

Actually you can get an html report using your scouts ratings instead of sisa. For example if you are looking at the batters on your roster viewing their current
and potential ratings (which you can do with custom views) with your scouts rattings you can get a html report. Bottom of screen hit the "report" button. You can open an html window in game or write to disk and the report will open in firefox or whatever your default is so you can print a hard copy if you want.

It's in the manual :) Section 1.01.1

With regard to pitchers in the field. This is something many cried for because
"real pitchers can do this, why can't mine?". IMHO it's so rare it shouldn't be in the game unless tested to the point of working to near perfection. I'd like to see an option in league setup that bars pitchers playing in the field.

[Maple Leafs]

With regard to pitchers in the field. This is something many cried for because "real pitchers can do this, why can't mine?". IMHO it's so rare it shouldn't be in the game unless tested to the point of working to near perfection. I'd like to see an option in league setup that bars pitchers playing in the field.
Or at the very least, let human managers do it if they insist but for god's sake don't let the AI play with it.

[Swaggs]

I think that's a case of player numbers being re-used. So Joe Superstar happens to be players #1234. He retires, Johnny Prospect gets randomly assigned his number, and the history file isn't erased.

That is absolutely correct.

After the buttons, old players retire and new players get their recycled player IDs. The game erases the history's of the retired players at the button, but if you just unzip the new season file into your existing (previous season) file, the history text just seems to be compiled on top. When you see it in the RWBL, it is because one of the comissioners took over the file w/o completely deleting their existing file before unzipping the new season. I know we have done it a few times throughout our history, before we realized what was going on.

[cuervo72]

My advice on this one? Read the manual and look at the scouting portion. It's pure insanity. Depending on what you want your scout to do (scout a player, team, league or nation) you have to do it from a different screen.

Bookmark all the spots and make it easy on yourself.

In other words then, no. That's what I had thought - that you have to be on the page of what you want to scout - but man, that's all over the place. Even if you just had a dropdown on the staff for things like 'scout org', 'scout ML', 'scout AAA', etc, it would be better. Players I can understand needing to be on the player page. Teams though, that's pretty standard.

[lynchjm24]

Actually you can get an html report using your scouts ratings instead of sisa. For example if you are looking at the batters on your roster viewing their current
and potential ratings (which you can do with custom views) with your scouts rattings you can get a html report. Bottom of screen hit the "report" button. You can open an html window in game or write to disk and the report will open in firefox or whatever your default is so you can print a hard copy if you want.

It's in the manual :) Section 1.01.1

With regard to pitchers in the field. This is something many cried for because
"real pitchers can do this, why can't mine?". IMHO it's so rare it shouldn't be in the game unless tested to the point of working to near perfection. I'd like to see an option in league setup that bars pitchers playing in the field.

Seems a little more complicated then what I'm looking for.

[lynchjm24]

Actually you can get an html report using your scouts ratings instead of sisa. For example if you are looking at the batters on your roster viewing their current
and potential ratings (which you can do with custom views) with your scouts rattings you can get a html report. Bottom of screen hit the "report" button. You can open an html window in game or write to disk and the report will open in firefox or whatever your default is so you can print a hard copy if you want.

It's in the manual :) Section 1.01.1

With regard to pitchers in the field. This is something many cried for because
"real pitchers can do this, why can't mine?". IMHO it's so rare it shouldn't be in the game unless tested to the point of working to near perfection. I'd like to see an option in league setup that bars pitchers playing in the field.

Seems a little more complicated then what I'm looking for. I just want my head scouts ratings to be the ratings I always see when going through the SION pages. Why would I want their horrible ratings when I've got a scout who is maxed out in every category?

[Galaril]

I read this on Octupus Overlords PC game foru,:

"I should have been clearer in my assessment. My intent was to point out that while the code may have been newly written that's rather a moot point, since the user doesn't see the code, he sees the interface. The interface and functions appear to be copied (I was going to say "based", but it's closer than that) from the FM interface. For those folks who are FM or Sports Interactive fans this is well and good, but for those (like myself) who have followed the OOTP series for several iterations it's rather a shock to have to not only look for the new functional features of OOTP, but also learn how to simply navigate around as well.

It's great to say that the engine was rebuilt from the ground up, but since I suspect that the overlap between FM and OOTPB fanbase is rather small, there would appear to be little motivation to make the interfaces the same. In fact I would venture to say that for purposes of marketing it would have been better to base the interface on the last OOTP, then show the loyal fan base how the main features of the interface from OOTP6 that they have learned to know and love were retained, and then show the new functions that have been added.

If OOTPBB2006 was built from scratch, why *does* it look so much like FM? Coincidence? A massive outcry from the OOTP fanbase saying "We want it to look like that soccer sim!"? No, it's not an accident, it had to be directed to be that way. So *why* would you want to make them look so much the same? I would hazard a guess that it is based on re-use of code, code modules, or something of that ilk. New code might have been generated for OOTPBB2006, but I suspect that it's a reuseability issue that made it look like does. Not that there's anything wrong with that, unless of course it hurts your sales, or restricts incorporating improvements.

I still bought the game since it is the best baseball sim out there, although Puresim and Mogul have made some advances. And I know that Marcus and the crew will address many of the issues and give the fans a lot of what they are asking for. However, I'll be more wary next time. "
I couldn't agree with this more.

[aran]

FM had one of the best looking and most useable text sim interfaces I've ever seen. I definitely do not mind OOTPB taking after it now. Then again, I've never played the older incarnations of the series, so I have no interface to "unlearn". It will probably take several patches and maybe another release of OOTPB for the game to grow into the UI. I have confidence that SI can make it work well.

[Neuqua]

Let's say I want to create a fictional league of say, roughly 24 teams and fast sim 50 years or so of history. Everything is fictional, fictional logos, stadiums, players, etc.

Then I take over one of the teams and play out every individual game. Play as both a manager and a General Manager.

Which game would better suit me? Or is it too early to decide?

[Young Drachma]

FM had one of the best looking and most useable text sim interfaces I've ever seen. I definitely do not mind OOTPB taking after it now. Then again, I've never played the older incarnations of the series, so I have no interface to "unlearn". It will probably take several patches and maybe another release of OOTPB for the game to grow into the UI. I have confidence that SI can make it work well.

Agreed.

[Young Drachma]

Let's say I want to create a fictional league of say, roughly 24 teams and fast sim 50 years or so of history. Everything is fictional, fictional logos, stadiums, players, etc.

Then I take over one of the teams and play out every individual game. Play as both a manager and a General Manager.

Which game would better suit me? Or is it too early to decide?

I wondered this too, actually. It seems to me that there is clearly going to be a different sort of appeal for one game over the other depending on what you like, want, etc.

I'd like this answered too, though I'm pretty much on the side where I think works best for me.

[Sweed]

FM had one of the best looking and most useable text sim interfaces I've ever seen. I definitely do not mind OOTPB taking after it now. Then again, I've never played the older incarnations of the series, so I have no interface to "unlearn". It will probably take several patches and maybe another release of OOTPB for the game to grow into the UI. I have confidence that SI can make it work well.

Agreed. Like any UI it will take some getting used to. First time player of FM this year and was lost for awhile trying to learn soccer and the UI at the same time. Found learning the soccer part was much more difficult than the UI.

[Ryche]

Well, I've had a little bit of an opportunity to play around with the game now. After I initially downloaded the game, I was gone for a couple days so all I could do during that time was look at the mammoth game guide. But I do think it helped, as so far I really haven't had any problem navigating around the games interface and I've never played any of the FM or EHM game previously.

Basically though, all I've done thus far is looking around at the players, teams, stats, etc, without actually trying to manage a team yet. I simmed out 30 years, starting in 2006, while I was at work today with mostly default settings. One US major league with the standard minors, no foreign leagues. I think the only settings I changed was to make trades harder and rarer and to favor prospects. No initial draft (players distributed by the computer).

First observations: offensive numbers are a bit higher than I would prefer, particularly in the AL. AL ERAs (for the entire league) ranged from 4.58 to 5.30. Real life from 1993 to 2005 the range was from 4.32 to 5.00. So overall this might be a bit high, but I'd say acceptable and should be easy to adjust if desired.

NL ranged from 4.10 to 4.63. The NL ERAs actually fall nicely within the real life range from 1994 to 2005, from 4.11 to 4.63. (Interesting note looking at the NL league pitching stats. From 1976 to 1992, the league ERA only exceeded 4.00 once, from 1993 to today it hasn't been below 4.00. Colorado joined in 1993.)

Baltimore had the one true dynasty thus far, appearing in 5 straight World Series, winning 3 in a row. Interestingly, they played Washington 4 years in a row.

Notable players - Hitters:

Nate Leatherwood - Career batting average leader at .362 through 10 seasons. Consistantly hit 25-30 home runs as well. Also won a gold glove at shortstop. His career was tragically stopped short by an accident during spring training that left him with a fractured skull.

Mike Kaye - All time leader in HRs (696), Doubles (721), At Bats (10,790) and Strikeouts (1,796). Hit at least 30 HRs 13 times and was a career .299 hitter. He was the first pick in the 2nd round and was subsequently traded twice before reaching the majors. (Neither trade looks particularly good, but I can't criticize swapping minor leaguers.) He was never an MVP, but his best season was .318, 49 HR, 154 RBI. The end of his career got a bit interesting. He batted .295, 25 HR, 89 RBI with Cleveland in 2031. Signed a 1 yr, 510K contract with Texas in the offseason and was quickly traded to the Angels. SISA scouted him as 13 Contact, 13 Power, 9 Eye. He batted .306, 33 HR, 113 RBI for the Angels in 2032. Signed a cheap one year extension with the Angels, then was put on waivers and claimed by San Diego. A month later, San Diego traded him to Houston, where he struggled with injuries and only batted .243, 10 HR, 34 RBI in 280 at bats before retiring. Strange little sequence at the end. I think the game AI was looking too closely at the SISA ratings without paying attention to Kaye's actual production.

Stone Paulton - Single season batting average record at .403, while playing for Colorado in 2029, in what was his first full major league season. Batted .328 and .312 in his next two seasons. Was traded for a decent reliever to Chicago (N) before the 2032 season. Only batted 223 times for Chicago for a .269 average. Was then traded in the next offseason to Cleveland, where he signed a 4 year extension for 21 million. Bounced back by batting .323 with 12 HR and 94 RBI, but then missed 2034 with a ruptured achilles and only played briefly in 2035 before tearing a back muscle and ending his career. I actually like how his career developed. Did Coors make his career or did could he be consistantly good anywhere without the injuries?

Nicholas Daulton - First overall draft pick in 2016 for Tampa Bay. He hit 33 HRs in his first major league season, 2019. He followed that up with 28 HRs in 2020. But in 2021, he had probably the best single season for a batter so far in this league, batting .373, 61 HR, 170 RBI, 161 Runs, 52 SB. He followed that up with .319, 45 HR, 112 RBI, 129 Runs, 54 SB, winning his second consectutive Outstanding Hitter award. He was having another outstanding year in 2023, but was traded to the Angels in what looks like a cost cutting move. Basically, Tampa received an equal player in return who would be a free agent after the season and a prospect, giving up a player hitting his prime and about to make big money. It worked out well for Tampa as Daulton tore an ankle ligament in September and never played again.

Notable players - Pitchers:

Tercero Barrio - Maybe the best two seasons I've ever seen from a pitcher. He holds the single season record for ERA (1.74) and wins (30!). These records occured in consectutive years. He was a free agent in the initial player pool and signed by Florida in July of 2006. He was very unimpressive during three years in AAA and had a 6.86 ERA in a 2008 September callup. But he was part of Florida's starting rotation in 2009 and was an average pitcher for the next four seasons. In 2013 he was traded to St. Louis in what looks like a reasonable trade. In 2014, Barrio was 7-9 with a 4.15 ERA before his season ended with a Herniated Disc. But he came back in 2015 with a remarkable 18-1 record, 1.74 ERA. He signed a 5 yr/78 million extension on August 2nd, then suffered a Dislocated Shoulder on August 9th that cut his remarkable season short. (Only 29 starts) 2016 though...wow. Barrio went 30-3, with a 2.27 ERA, 344 K in 293 IP, 6 shutouts. The Cardinals won 102 games that year, scoring 806 runs. However, his old Florida team won 112 games and the World Series that year. Barrio never approached this success again however. He went 17-10 two seasons later, but never broke 12 wins after that. He ended up 214-154, 3.90 ERA, 3,396 K (career record), 1,503 BB (also career record).

Mike Shuck - Only 300 game winner (next has 237 wins), he played with Washington during 4 year World Series run. Was the Rookie of the Year in 2009 with a 15-6 record and 2.76 ERA. However, he pitched 103 innings in 2008, so he probably shouldn't have been eligible. But anyway, he pitched for 19 seasons with Washington and had at least 11 wins for 17 straight seasons, including 4 20+ win seasons and 2 Cy Youngs.

Just an overview of some things I've seen so far. I need to figure out how to log into the OOTP boards so I can post bugs I find. For some reason, it lets me log in, but will not let me post.

Yes, there are bugs, and some pretty major ones. I have come to expect these bugs in text sims and don't have a problem with it as I'm confident they will be fixed to make this an excellent game. Should we have to expect these bugs? Maybe not, but as long as I have fun with the final product, it's not a problem for me. When I end up not having fun with the final product (within a reasonable amount of time) that's when a company will lose my business.

Right now, I'm loving this game's potential.

[SunDevil]

Thanks for the update Ryche.

For the people who have simmed a good number of years, is there that many career ending injuries? From the brief example that TroyF and Ryche have provided it seems the top players have horrible injuries. Are there any Hall of Famers that just retire when they get old and their production declines? Thanks.

[Ryche]

Thanks for the update Ryche.

For the people who have simmed a good number of years, is there that many career ending injuries? From the brief example that TroyF and Ryche have provided it seems the top players have horrible injuries. Are there any Hall of Famers that just retire when they get old and their production declines? Thanks.

Out of 30 players currently in the Hall of Fame, only 4 suffered career ending injuries. A few others had serious injuries that effectively ended their careers, but for the most part, it was a decline of production that ended careers. More of them ended up in the minor leagues at the end of their careers than I would prefer Very few went out at the top of their games.

For some reason, the players that caught my eye tended to flare out quickly.

[SackAttack]

For all intents and purposes you cannot make trades. I don't care if it's realistic or not - the stupid design decision I've ever seen is this ... I'll get back to you and you get an email the next day.

I think it'd be better if you could make the trade immediately, but it took a day or two for the player to arrive for duty, honestly.

[riz]

FM had one of the best looking and most useable text sim interfaces I've ever seen. I definitely do not mind OOTPB taking after it now. Then again, I've never played the older incarnations of the series, so I have no interface to "unlearn". It will probably take several patches and maybe another release of OOTPB for the game to grow into the UI. I have confidence that SI can make it work well.

I've not played the older OOTP games that much, so I cannot comment on this particular change of UI's very well, but in general, people hate change. If they are accustomed to something, they'll cry bloody murder if that something gets changed. It's always easier to complain and demand a return to the old familiar system than to try and adapt to a new system. It's just natural. We heard the exact same thing with EHM since a lot of people thought it was a herecy to go for a whole new interface just because they had grown into the old windowsy freeware UI. In our case, it should have been understandable to see a whole new UI since NHL EHM was not a sequal to the old freeware, but a whole new game on its own.

But as they say, you cannot make an omelette without breaking some eggs :)

[lynchjm24]

I think it'd be better if you could make the trade immediately, but it took a day or two for the player to arrive for duty, honestly.

That would work. It's a little more realistic, plus it's still fun.

[Ryche]

Well, I ran another sim last night with a similar league setup. Only made it 17 seasons though as I forgot to turn off box scores and game logs. Anyway, for whatever reason the AL's ERA dropped significantly, down to the level I would be looking for. The range in my first sim was 4.58 to 5.30. This time the range has been 4.57 to 5.03. Only twice it has been over 5.

Had a Toronto team go on quite a run, appearing in 6 of 7 World Series. Only won one of them though.

One pitcher jumps out at me, Ramirez "Meter Man" Bejinez. He was the first overall pick for Seattle in 2003. In 2007 he was the Rookie of the Year, going 17-9, 4.02 ERA and 285 K in 241 innings. He won 14 games with a 3.09 ERA the next season while fighting through injuries. Then, from 2009-2013, Bejinez won 5 consectutive Cy Youngs, winning 21, 24, 28, 28 and 28 games, striking out well over 300 each year and putting up ERAs of 2.57, 1.75, 2.37, 1.89 and 2.01. At this point he signed a 4 yr/47 million deal with San Diego. His first season with San Diego wasn't quite at his previous level, 14-9, 2.85 ERA, but he ruptured his bicep at the end of the year and hasn't been the same since. He's now quite mortal, posting ERAs over 4 the last three seasons.

[MizzouRah]

Gentlemen,

Check out this blog: http://www.calvertgames.com/cgblog/index.php

Some excellent settings discussed:
I spent the evening hours yesterday messing around with the hits, HRs, and doubles modifiers, and am happy with the sim results. They pretty much reflect the same statistics (or close to them) for our OOTP 6.5 results. I changed hits to 1.060, HRs to 1.080, and doubles to 1.080 and ERAs went up, hitting average, HRs, and doubles were within standard deviations from previous IOSBL OOTP 6.5 sims.


Thanks to a forum member over a DS for this link. After a patch or two I just might pick this one up thanks to the user base.

[jbmagic]

Gentlemen,

Check out this blog: http://www.calvertgames.com/cgblog/index.php

Some excellent settings discussed:


Thanks to a forum member over a DS for this link. After a patch or two I just might pick this one up thanks to the user base.

Do you have confident that there going to fix the waiviers, release and trades issus that been going on from past versions of ootp and now still on the new engine of ootp 2006?

I really hope so after a couple of patches these issuses can finally be resolved after all these years.

[rexallllsc]

The FM interface is just amazing as far as I'm concerned. FM is the benchmark for all text-sims in both interface and gameplat for me, so steps closer to that by OOTP are a big plus in my book.

I can't wait til this is 100% playable so I can get going.

Can anyone tell me how much player personalities affect this game (see: FM)?

[Icy]

Can anyone tell me how much player personalities affect this game (see: FM)?
Not played enought but for what i have seen and reading the manual, FM players personalities are not in OOTP2006, you just have the same greed, loyalty etc than 6.5 had before and that only affect contract negotiations. Sad news for me, i was really looking forward a baseball game like OOTP with the players personalities from FM, where the players get pissed at you, between each other, that become angry if you fire their team mate, etc etc.

[rexallllsc]

Not played enought but for what i have seen and reading the manual, FM players personalities are not in OOTP2006, you just have the same greed, loyalty etc than 6.5 had before and that only affect contract negotiations. Sad news for me, i was really looking forward a baseball game like OOTP with the players personalities from FM, where the players get pissed at you, between each other, that become angry if you fire their team mate, etc etc.

Yeh! I'm sure it'll be in the next version. That would've sealed the deal for me!

[tucker rocky]

Has anybody ever had any "zip code error" when trying to purchase?
What if I purchase by check? Will I receive a license to make the game fully functional(have already downloaded the game)?

[jbmagic]

I didn't think this would be possible, but waivers don't even work. I just DFAed a guy, and then the next day assigned him to AAA. Didn't force me to put him on waivers.


Did you report this bug at the ootp tech forum ? I didnt see it there.

[kcchief19]

OK, the good and bad from a bit more in-depth fun with the game:

First -- I got fired for not meeting the owner's goals on June 30 of my first season. I need to RTFM, because I couldn't figure anywhere you can find out what your goals are. I stayed within my budget, but after a so-so April and a great May to climb within a game of first, we had some injuries and crashed in June to last place in the division and 15 games out. However, just before I got fired I made a key trade and we got some players back. The rest of the way the team played lights out and finished in second place three games out of the wild card. The AI made only one significant trade, and that trade was pretty lateral -- he picked up a 3B with better ratings who put up nearly identical numbers to the 3B we already had. But 2 of the 3 key players on the team were players I acquired and one of them was on the default roster.

Interleague management: Again, I apparently need to study the hundreds of pages of documentation. But right now, I would make this statement: If you are a purist and want a real-life baseball simulation, this is not it. It might be the same message I would give to people about TCY, which I liked tremedously but I think Jim made it clear that it was his interpretation of college football, not an identical recreation.

Why do I give this warning? Unless there are some settings I missed, when you have foreign leagues and you have player movement enable, the game plays like soccer, not major league baseball. Also, it seems that if you want foreign players in your game or even if you want to mirror real-life baseball, you have to endure a certain amount of unreal diversity -- I can't tell you how many Chinese players you run into.

I can encapsulate an example of all of this with just one player: Alvino Franco. I discovvered Franco while scouting the Dominican Republic. The SISA souting rated the 23-year-old RF 8/8/8 but my top scout rated him 10/9/10 with a great glove to boot. He was head and shoulders above everybody else in the league, so I tried for six months to acquire his rights from his team in the Domincan. I finally worked out a deal two weeks before I was fired that included a couple of journeymen who flamed out immediately and a couple of prospects that flopped completely along with $6 million in cash, which I had plenty of. Maybe that's why I got fired.

Franco came in and was absolutely on fire. In 74 games he hit 21 homers, drove in 55 runs and hit .299. Gee, maybe that's why we had such a great second half of the season. In his second season he hit 44 homers with 126 RBI and a .301 average and .421 OBP. During spring training the following season he was traded to Colorado for a RF of slighlty less quality and a somewhat promising 3B. He has a solid season -- 35 homers, 104 RBI, .284 average. After the season, he was traded to Matanzas of the Cuban League for a 27 year-old pitcher rated 7/10/7. Lots of league hopping for everybody.

Other things of note: the pitcher the Rockies acquired by Franco has plaeyd games at 2B, C, CF, LF,3B, RF and SS during his career.

I've also have either a great example of the waiver insanity that Troy has noted or an example of how great this game is. Luis Plasencia was the No. 1 pick in my first draft in 2006. I had my scouts all scout the draft pool and all of them rated him in the top five. He was drafted by the Dodgers and developed a familiar pattern -- after dominating rookie ball, he moves up a level, struggles, then dominates and moves up level. Rinse, lather, repeat. Then somethign wacky happened: in 2007, SISA's ratings for potential in his player history were blank, which happens a lot. In 2008 his ratings were -/2/7 with potential of -/6/8 -- a bit lower than he was original rated by my scouts in the draft. He got called up midseason by the Dodgers and went 2-1 with a 2.40 ERA -- and ends up on waivers. In 2009 he was rated -/7/8 with potential of -/10/9, a nice bump up from a year earlier. Arizona nabs him and he has a so-so rookie season in 2009 before becoming one of the best pitchers in the league in 2010 and winning the 2011 Cy Young Award.

So was this just another case of the broken waiver wire? That's my guess. I can't rule out that the Dodgers didn't like his ratings and didn't think he was going to pan out and tried to sneak him through waivers but Arizona pounced.

Oh, and a guy rated 4/4/4 with potential of 4/5/4 just threw a no-hitter.

Much of what I have seen supports everything Troy has said. Next league I start, waivers is getting the heave-ho.

[Buccaneer]

You know, it's funny that for many years, OOTP customers have been complaining or joking about the lack of a manual. Now it comes with a hefty manual (apparently) and everyone still complains or jokes about it.

[rexallllsc]

After the season, he was traded to Matanzas of the Cuban League for a 27 year-old pitcher rated 7/10/7. Lots of league hopping for everybody.


I don't like that.

[DaddyTorgo]

i <3 the FM interface but it sounds like ATM there is just too much that doesn't work (waivers, interleague movement, etc). Maybe I'll wait until next year to give this a look, although i suppose the demo will at least warrant a DL.

[INDalltheway]

So if you don't want to run all of those other leagues can you still get players from those countries to come into the FA pool? It seems like more trouble than is needed turning on all of those other leagues.

[gstelmack]

You know, it's funny that for many years, OOTP customers have been complaining or joking about the lack of a manual. Now it comes with a hefty manual (apparently) and everyone still complains or jokes about it.

It's not so funny. People aren't making jokes about the manual, they are making jokes about a UI / set of features that makes reading the manual a necessity to do much of anything.

Not that that may stop me from giving this a try after a patch or two irons out the key sim issues that were brought up and converts the financial / trading model to a baseball one from a soccer one.

[MizzouRah]

Do you have confident that there going to fix the waiviers, release and trades issus that been going on from past versions of ootp and now still on the new engine of ootp 2006?

I really hope so after a couple of patches these issuses can finally be resolved after all these years.

Confidence in Markus alone? Not really.. but I'm going to give SI the benefit of the doubt here. Markus now has many people logging bugs and recognizing some UI issues as well as some graphical issues.

I get juiced up about ootp, then I read posts like kcchief's and I scratch my head. I would really love to get this game and import my 6.5 world, heck I'm hoping it would also let me get used to EHM as well. Good thing I'm only at the AS break in my 6.5 career, so I have time to wait for a patch or so before my import date passes up again.

[ice4277]

Interleague management: Again, I apparently need to study the hundreds of pages of documentation. But right now, I would make this statement: If you are a purist and want a real-life baseball simulation, this is not it. It might be the same message I would give to people about TCY, which I liked tremedously but I think Jim made it clear that it was his interpretation of college football, not an identical recreation.


Ugh. I wouldn't touch TCY because of what you mentioned. If that is the case here, without a workaround, I probably would, unfortunately, stay away from this too.

[Terps]

First -- I got fired for not meeting the owner's goals on June 30 of my first season. I need to RTFM, because I couldn't figure anywhere you can find out what your goals are.

You get an e-mail on Opening Day telling you what the owner expects for the season.

[Fouts]

I'm enjoying the game, but as a minor league manager the game moves around my lineup and pitching staff in between games everytime the GM makes a roster transaction.

Anyone know how to keep the game from making these lineup changes? Is there a way to save my lineups/rotation as a minor league manager?

[Galaril]

He has a solid season -- 35 homers, 104 RBI, .284 average. After the season, he was traded to Matanzas of the Cuban League for a 27 year-old pitcher rated 7/10/7. Lots of league hopping for everybody.

Other things of note: the pitcher the Rockies acquired by Franco has plaeyd games at 2B, C, CF, LF,3B, RF and SS during his career.



That is a show stopper and this along with other things I am hearing can't be fixed in a patch or two. In fact, I doubt this kind of thing would be changed in latter versions. Why? These kinds of design parameters obviously were built into the game purposely. Kind of feels like the game design had the blessings of Bud Selig aka Mr World Baseball Classic.

[Maple Leafs]

If I was in the middle of a career and saw a star player from MLB traded to Cuba, I think it would kill my interest pretty much immediately.

[DanGarion]

That is a show stopper and this along with other things I am hearing can't be fixed in a patch or two. In fact, I doubt this kind of thing would be changed in latter versions. Why? These kinds of design parameters obviously were built into the game purposely. Kind of feels like the game design had the blessings of Bud Selig aka Mr World Baseball Classic.
You can set in leagues if they are able to trade.

It's under Rules
Trade with other Major Leagues.

[TroyF]

Turn off the "hidden player" option. No players from other countries get created adn you don't have to worry about the foreign invasion.

Still working on getting the twenty season upload done for everyone.

The game is strangely growing on me, but it's taking a damned bit of work for that to happen. I think the waiver wire is irrepairable. I just shut em off and don't bother. Ditto with the foreign leagues and hidden players. It's just broke.

If markus could get a patch out that just made sure pitchers didn't play the freakin field, I think I can work around the rest of the crap. The stats are fairly realistic, the career arcs fairly solid, the statistical tracking is the freakin bomb.

The only down side at that point would be the trade model, which I'm getting used to, no matter how ridiculous it is.

[cuervo72]

I think that any *serious* (historical types) simmers are going to ignore these other leagues, so this won't happen. Those who have them all on are probably of a much different mindset and won't care, or might like it (perhaps those who don't really follow baseball, but picked up the game bc of the SI connection for instance).

[DaddyTorgo]

Turn off the "hidden player" option. No players from other countries get created adn you don't have to worry about the foreign invasion.

Still working on getting the twenty season upload done for everyone.

The game is strangely growing on me, but it's taking a damned bit of work for that to happen. I think the waiver wire is irrepairable. I just shut em off and don't bother. Ditto with the foreign leagues and hidden players. It's just broke.

If markus could get a patch out that just made sure pitchers didn't play the freakin field, I think I can work around the rest of the crap. The stats are fairly realistic, the career arcs fairly solid, the statistical tracking is the freakin bomb.

The only down side at that point would be the trade model, which I'm getting used to, no matter how ridiculous it is.

if waivers are included in the game they should be on. ditto with foreign leagues. they should work in the way that they work in the real world, otherwise why bother to include them. it's like i'm paying for features i'm not using then. If you were deaf would you want to pay extra for a 6-disc CD changer in your car? I think not! Same thing here. Why pay for a feature if it's not going to be useable. If waivers and foreign countries are broken then the game should cost less or the features ought to be removed. Otherwise I'm paying for a feature I'm not using, which as a consumer I am opposed to.

[JW]

Summer is here so I just looked at my OOTP 6.5 and my 22-year-old fictional league and decided to get back at it. I've played a couple of seasons and am quite happy. I only sim games and generally run through a season in one-two days. I have no interest in buying a new baseball game this summer based on what I'm reading.

[Buccaneer]

if waivers are included in the game they should be on. ditto with foreign leagues. they should work in the way that they work in the real world, otherwise why bother to include them. it's like i'm paying for features i'm not using then. If you were deaf would you want to pay extra for a 6-disc CD changer in your car? I think not! Same thing here. Why pay for a feature if it's not going to be useable. If waivers and foreign countries are broken then the game should cost less or the features ought to be removed. Otherwise I'm paying for a feature I'm not using, which as a consumer I am opposed to.

I strongly disagree. The value of having the core features work very well is worth far more than the cost of the game. These "extra" stuff are distractions and only there for marketing/sales purposed. One could argue that waivers are a fundamental part of real world baseball but it apparently does not translate well to a computer game and therefore, it becomes more of a hindrance (or micromanagement chore) than added value.

cuervo: You are correct in that historical simmers wouldn't bother with stuff like that and therefore, could run a more playable game.

[Buccaneer]

Summer is here so I just looked at my OOTP 6.5 and my 22-year-old fictional league and decided to get back at it. I've played a couple of seasons and am quite happy. I only sim games and generally run through a season in one-two days. I have no interest in buying a new baseball game this summer based on what I'm reading.

I've been at my OOTP5.11 historical career since the middle of April and just got into my 16th season. It does that very well, imo, and there's no need to add any of the extra stuff that would only make it look like a modern league with an international flavor. Doing something more simple very well is worth more than doing something more complex not so well.

[Cringer]

I think my hard drive reaching capacity this week while running PureSim was a sign I shouldn't get this game. :)

I am enjoying PureSim, much more then I thought. I never tried previous versions, and had planned on still getting this OOTP when money allowed. Now I am not so sure. I love the FM interface, but this sounds like it's a messed up version. I am sure it will be fixed, but I have problems with some of the other things mentioned.

[Galaril]

You can set in leagues if they are able to trade.

It's under Rules
Trade with other Major Leagues.

But if it is turned off than won't that mean no players from other countries come in from Japan, Korea, Cuba, Columbia,Venezuela, PR, Dom. Rep etc. In other words if we have to turn off trading with leagues than how can we get the players from those other countries? And if we turn off the leagues entirely few if any player s will be generated from those countries. Also agree with waivers not being turned on is a problem since it is part of MLB and the game.

[DanGarion]

But if it is turned off than won't that mean no players from other countries come in from Japan, Korea, Cuba, Columbia,Venezuela, PR, Dom. Rep etc. In other words if we have to turn off trading with leagues than how can we get the players from those other countries? And if we turn off the leagues entirely few if any player s will be generated from those countries. Also agree with waivers not being turned on is a problem since it is part of MLB and the game.
You can selectively turn on trades for Cuba, thus you could then only get Cubans when they are Free Agents. Just like you could do the same with Japan. This would fit into the way baseball now works (more or less).

The comment about few players from other countries being generated is false. You can also choose what the percentage of non country players are in the league. So if you want 30% of the players to not be from the US, then my understanding is you will find those players in the draft as prospects, they will be from various countries, but they will be in a ratio that they should be in real life, so lots of Dominicans, less Japanese, fewer Dutch.

[TroyF]

if waivers are included in the game they should be on. ditto with foreign leagues. they should work in the way that they work in the real world, otherwise why bother to include them. it's like i'm paying for features i'm not using then. If you were deaf would you want to pay extra for a 6-disc CD changer in your car? I think not! Same thing here. Why pay for a feature if it's not going to be useable. If waivers and foreign countries are broken then the game should cost less or the features ought to be removed. Otherwise I'm paying for a feature I'm not using, which as a consumer I am opposed to.

I'll be honest here. . . I don't have an interest at all in the Japanese League. I've never once woken up and said "gee, I really wonder how #$!@%^@ @%#@ in the Japanese league did yesterday"

So it's a feature I wouldn't use anyway. I want an U.S. type league setup to work with the minor leagues. Give me that, and it's well worth my 35 bucks.

Now, I know it'll surprise my friends to hear this, but I am not the center of the universe. If it's critical the South African League and waivers are important to your enjoyment of the game, I'd strongly advise against a purchase at this point.

Those looking for the perfect game need not apply either. It isn't close. I've never been an OOTP fan boy and despite drooling at the stat pages everytime they open, I think the PureSim/OOTP battle is still a toss up with PureSim getting a slight nod from me at this point.

Thing is, I'm that way with everygame. I don't care if the create your own player works in NCAA or Madden because I never use them. there are things in every title I don't use because it's just not enjoyable.

[kcchief19]

The comment about few players from other countries being generated is false. You can also choose what the percentage of non country players are in the league. So if you want 30% of the players to not be from the US, then my understanding is you will find those players in the draft as prospects, they will be from various countries, but they will be in a ratio that they should be in real life, so lots of Dominicans, less Japanese, fewer Dutch.
I'm going to start another league and test some of these settings. At first glance, I'm certain that the ratio of foreign players is not right. I left the percentage at 30 percent, but my league is full of way too many Chinese, Korean, South American and other nations. I don't know if that is a result of the fictional rosters that were created a start up not using a real-life ratio or attrition.

I do know that the draft is messed up -- if modeling real life, the draft should be almost exclusively American players. But worldwide players are included in the draft in large numbers.

[DanGarion]

I'm going to start another league and test some of these settings. At first glance, I'm certain that the ratio of foreign players is not right. I left the percentage at 30 percent, but my league is full of way too many Chinese, Korean, South American and other nations. I don't know if that is a result of the fictional rosters that were created a start up not using a real-life ratio or attrition.

I do know that the draft is messed up -- if modeling real life, the draft should be almost exclusively American players. But worldwide players are included in the draft in large numbers.

Ok then answer me this. If you only run the MLB, and none of the other leagues, how do you expect the players from other counties to entre the leauge? They have to come from somewhere which is why they are from the draft. The game doens't have built in instructional leagues in far off countries like real baseball, so this is the way it adds players from other countries. Now why you would be getting a noticable amount of Chinese that may be a problem with the player creation files. I'm not sure, since I haven't gone deep into how it does them, I'm going off of how I understand the game.

[ice4277]

Ok then answer me this. If you only run the MLB, and none of the other leagues, how do you expect the players from other counties to entre the leauge? They have to come from somewhere which is why they are from the draft. The game doens't have built in instructional leagues in far off countries like real baseball, so this is the way it adds players from other countries. Now why you would be getting a noticable amount of Chinese that may be a problem with the player creation files. I'm not sure, since I haven't gone deep into how it does them, I'm going off of how I understand the game.

Well, to compare this with FM, I don't have to select, say, the French soccer league to have French players. I won't have as many, sure, but I will have a reasonably appropriate number of top-level players that a league like theirs would produce. Should be the same way in OOTP.

[Buccaneer]

Ok then answer me this. If you only run the MLB, and none of the other leagues, how do you expect the players from other counties to entre the leauge?

The Lahman database? :)

[Galaril]

Ok then answer me this. If you only run the MLB, and none of the other leagues, how do you expect the players from other counties to entre the leauge? They have to come from somewhere which is why they are from the draft. The game doens't have built in instructional leagues in far off countries like real baseball, so this is the way it adds players from other countries. Now why you would be getting a noticable amount of Chinese that may be a problem with the player creation files. I'm not sure, since I haven't gone deep into how it does them, I'm going off of how I understand the game.


I can just imagine some funny scenarios with a Yankee infield all made Nepalese players from the Himalyas.LOL

[kcchief19]

Ok then answer me this. If you only run the MLB, and none of the other leagues, how do you expect the players from other counties to entre the leauge? They have to come from somewhere which is why they are from the draft. The game doens't have built in instructional leagues in far off countries like real baseball, so this is the way it adds players from other countries. Now why you would be getting a noticable amount of Chinese that may be a problem with the player creation files. I'm not sure, since I haven't gone deep into how it does them, I'm going off of how I understand the game.
Well, since the worldwide scouting seems to be separate from running the other leagues, I would have assumed that the way the game was built that it would allow you the option of scouting for worldwide free agents but not necessarily run those leagues. If you're going to go to the trouble of mimicking worldwide baseball, that is how I would do it. Then the draft could be exclusively North American as it is in real life.

If you are running foreign leagues in your universe, there are essentially now three ways foreign players can enter the game: free agents from worldwide scouting, free agents or trading (if turned on) with foreign leagues, and the draft.

I'm just starting my second shakedown league. This time I'm leaving the foreign leagues out so I can see how foreign players enter the league without the leagues turned on and how and if worldwide scouting works.

One difference I see immediately is that when you have foreign leagues turned on, the game creates enough players in foreign countries to fill those leauges -- i.e., Japan has 1190 players in its foreign league, in an MLB only league there are 201. In my MLB-only universe, there are 6,500 + players to fill the entire MLB and minors. That means about 5,200 will be on MLB teams with 1,300 extra players.

I'll admit that I don't know the demographic makeup of real-life MLB and its minor leagues. Are there 29 South Africans in the system? 38 guys from Aruba? 194 from Cuba? Some of those seem high to me. My understanding is that representation in the player file is tied to baseball quality, politics aside (there's no Castro in OOTP BM). But I think there are two problems:

- the representation ratio is a bit off -- average rated countries like South Africa may get more representation than they deserve while excellent rated countries like the Dominican may get less than they deserve

- there is not an accurate correlation between baseball quality and the quality of players created. OK, I'm fine with the game creating three guys from Bulgaria. But immediately I see that one of these guys is a young pitcher rated 9/10/10 who looks like the next Roger Clemens. To me, instances of countries with few professional players should create few if any superstars, but in both my first two leagues I've seen studs from odd and remote locations.

[kcchief19]

Before I get labeled as the anti-fanboy, let me say there is something about this game that I absolutely love -- scouting. I think the way scouting is implemented in this game is absolutely terrific. I'm not familiar enough with FM to know if this format originated there, but I love the fact that I have a bunch of scouts and they can come to different conclusions for the same player -- to the point where you'll have one scout fall in love with a guy and everybody else thinks his average, or you'll have a scout who thinks some supposed can't-miss prospect sucks. That's realistic to me.

That said, there is one change I would like to see in scouting -- an option to have an average of your all scouts' ratings for players displayed on screen. That would definitely make things easier when say you're in the draft and you're trying to find a consensus from your scouts on who is the best player on the board. I don't like having to flip from scout to scout and see how the ratings compare.

[Barkeep49]

Without owning the game I would agree with what kcchief has said, though I think a median score might be more useful in this case as it's less suseptable to extremes.

[kcchief19]

I do love some of the names ... Cuban Jeremias Bastardo is my star right fielder. I want to give him the nickname "El Bastard."

[Cringer]

Before I get labeled as the anti-fanboy, let me say there is something about this game that I absolutely love -- scouting. I think the way scouting is implemented in this game is absolutely terrific. I'm not familiar enough with FM to know if this format originated there, but I love the fact that I have a bunch of scouts and they can come to different conclusions for the same player -- to the point where you'll have one scout fall in love with a guy and everybody else thinks his average, or you'll have a scout who thinks some supposed can't-miss prospect sucks. That's realistic to me.


That is very cool. Almost sounds like a first in text-sims. Usually scouts vary very little from my experience in the games I have played. I don't think I have seen that much variation in scouts in FM, but there is some. That is the best I have experienced, scout wise.

[lynchjm24]

Before I get labeled as the anti-fanboy, let me say there is something about this game that I absolutely love -- scouting. I think the way scouting is implemented in this game is absolutely terrific. I'm not familiar enough with FM to know if this format originated there, but I love the fact that I have a bunch of scouts and they can come to different conclusions for the same player -- to the point where you'll have one scout fall in love with a guy and everybody else thinks his average, or you'll have a scout who thinks some supposed can't-miss prospect sucks. That's realistic to me.

That said, there is one change I would like to see in scouting -- an option to have an average of your all scouts' ratings for players displayed on screen. That would definitely make things easier when say you're in the draft and you're trying to find a consensus from your scouts on who is the best player on the board. I don't like having to flip from scout to scout and see how the ratings compare.

The scouting information is great. The work you have to do to get it is a royal pain in the ass.

[GrantDawg]

I'm so lost. I haven't had a chance to play at all, and so far I'm completely puzzled. I can't seem to get much to work (like I downloaded logos, put them in the logo folder, but they still aren't being used). I thought about starting early and letting the game sim through a bunch of seasons, but I can't seem to find if you can more than just one season at a time. Even with only the American leagues with minors on, it is not simming very fast.

Anyway, I'm sort of over-whelmed and under-whelmed so far.

[ScottVib]

The Scouts average is an excellent suggestion (and was one that the development team is already aware of).

With respect to the foreign invasion, one thing you can do upon league creation is use the Foreign Player Percent Modifier (Options tab on the League Setup). This will impact the number of foreigners created for the draft pools and the leagues initial setup.

[MizzouRah]

I think Markus is working on a "median" of sorts scout wise, could be wrong though as I've taken in a bunch of information lately.

If not for the fun in 6.5, I would write this game off completely, but I would love to see my universe in 2006 if not for the massive amount of stats alone. ie- I would love to play a game and see how X reliever did against X player in his career.

[kcchief19]

Ugh ... where's the auto save? Just got my first crash. I went to have my manager auto-set lineups and accidentally chose to autoset vs. RHP+DH and it went kablooey. D'oh!

I have noticed that even when I have lineup and pitching decisions set to be handled by my manager, while lineups seem to work fine my pitching depth chart doesn't always get set automatically.

[TroyF]

The scouting information is great. The work you have to do to get it is a royal pain in the ass.


What he said.

[GabeRivers]

A scouting average and/or median would be nice. You can, however, see what each of your scouts says about a given player all at one time (assuming the given scout has scouted that player). Open the player's card, and on the Player Profile sheet there is a tab for Scouting Reports. This lines up the scouting for each of your scouts plus the SISA report in a form that allows you to easily compare.

Another great thing about the scouting is the "Quick-Scout" option. Even when your scout is off on a scouting assignment, he can still perform up to 8 quick-scouts per day. This is very helpful when evaluating trade proposals, etc.

Regarding the foreign players, I started a league that is MLB plus 4 levels of minors. No foreign leagues. I set my foreign players option to 10%. Under the Manager menu there is a sheet called "Explore World" listing every country with detailed information about the quality of baseball there. I've got a pretty decent scout from Mexico, and he is on assignment there to find me some attractive young prospects. It really works quite well. I think Marcus provided the ability to create foreign leagues in order to make the game more attractive to a world market. If you want (like me) to play a more realistic American framed version of major league ball, don't create foreign leagues. Works well.

After about 20 hours of play, I'm really starting to like this game. There is a lot to be fixed and cleaned up, but overall it is shaping up to be an awesome piece of work.

[kcchief19]

After the buttons, old players retire and new players get their recycled player IDs. The game erases the history's of the retired players at the button, but if you just unzip the new season file into your existing (previous season) file, the history text just seems to be compiled on top. When you see it in the RWBL, it is because one of the comissioners took over the file w/o completely deleting their existing file before unzipping the new season. I know we have done it a few times throughout our history, before we realized what was going on.
It looks like the player histories may indeed be stored the same way in this version. When I just had my crash, I re-opened the game and it went back to Jan. 2 with my last save, but all the player histories had their news from the season -- I had simmed through April when I hit crash.

[kcchief19]

The scouting information is great. The work you have to do to get it is a royal pain in the ass.
True dat. One annoyance -- on some screens, like the roster screen, you can arrow forward and back from one player to the next so you can look at players ratings and scouting report for making roster decisions. Unfortunately, you can't do this when you open the player profile from the Transaction screen when this type of comparison would be most helpful.

[Galaril]

A scouting average and/or median would be nice. You can, however, see what each of your scouts says about a given player all at one time (assuming the given scout has scouted that player). Open the player's card, and on the Player Profile sheet there is a tab for Scouting Reports. This lines up the scouting for each of your scouts plus the SISA report in a form that allows you to easily compare.

Another great thing about the scouting is the "Quick-Scout" option. Even when your scout is off on a scouting assignment, he can still perform up to 8 quick-scouts per day. This is very helpful when evaluating trade proposals, etc.

Regarding the foreign players, I started a league that is MLB plus 4 levels of minors. No foreign leagues. I set my foreign players option to 10%. Under the Manager menu there is a sheet called "Explore World" listing every country with detailed information about the quality of baseball there. I've got a pretty decent scout from Mexico, and he is on assignment there to find me some attractive young prospects. It really works quite well. I think Marcus provided the ability to create foreign leagues in order to make the game more attractive to a world market. If you want (like me) to play a more realistic American framed version of major league ball, don't create foreign leagues. Works well.

After about 20 hours of play, I'm really starting to like this game. There is a lot to be fixed and cleaned up, but overall it is shaping up to be an awesome piece of work.


This is great news now just if the releasing players and trading can be fixed if not the waivers this would be one to check out.

[Drake]

With regards to running foreign leagues, but not wanting to see MLB stars going overseas to play, here's how I solved the problem:

For each of the MLB level foreign leagues, cut the financials to 1/3 (or less) of the MLB level. Just like in real life, the star players follow the money, both in the US and elsewhere. What gets tricky is when you stagger schedules. I've got a Scottish league that runs mostly in the MLB off-season -- we'll assume they're playing in domes, okay :) . The FA's from the Scottish league hit the FA pool in late January/early February. If I'm not monitoring the SBL's schedule, the other MLB teams have scouted the FA pool and gotten all the decent FA's before I even place a bid.

My favorite concurrent league is a June - September 100 game schedule independent Indiana Rookie League. Since we're unaffiliated, it's like a constant semi-pro league where the players grow up and get old without their ratings ever topping 4's or 5's. I set the average player salary to $30K and adjusted the other financials accordingly. Every once in a while, a 38 or 40 y.o. borderline major leaguer will play with one of the teams for a season, then retire, and when one of our players (by "our", I mean the league's) gets offered a contract from or a trade to an MLB farm system, the whole league throws a BBQ. ( :) )

There's something pure and fun about my Indiana Rookie League running in the background of the greater baseball universe. I dig it.

And yes, if you want to keep your sanity, turn off waivers. Hell, turn off the 40 man roster, too, but I've been doing that since v6.

[Drake]

dola...

The one thing I really miss in this game (well, not miss, since it's never been there in the first place) is the opportunity for a choaching progression. If I kick ass in an unaffiliated rookie, minor or independent league, I'd like to get job offers from the bigger fish, ala FBCB, instead of having to scour the job openings and automatically getting any open job I apply for. Heck, I'd even take the job board approach if the game would turn me down sometimes.

[aran]

With regards to running foreign leagues, but not wanting to see MLB stars going overseas to play, here's how I solved the problem:

For each of the MLB level foreign leagues, cut the financials to 1/3 (or less) of the MLB level. Just like in real life, the star players follow the money, both in the US and elsewhere. What gets tricky is when you stagger schedules. I've got a Scottish league that runs mostly in the MLB off-season -- we'll assume they're playing in domes, okay :) . The FA's from the Scottish league hit the FA pool in late January/early February. If I'm not monitoring the SBL's schedule, the other MLB teams have scouted the FA pool and gotten all the decent FA's before I even place a bid.

My favorite concurrent league is a June - September 100 game schedule independent Indiana Rookie League. Since we're unaffiliated, it's like a constant semi-pro league where the players grow up and get old without their ratings ever topping 4's or 5's. I set the average player salary to $30K and adjusted the other financials accordingly. Every once in a while, a 38 or 40 y.o. borderline major leaguer will play with one of the teams for a season, then retire, and when one of our players (by "our", I mean the league's) gets offered a contract from or a trade to an MLB farm system, the whole league throws a BBQ. ( :) )

There's something pure and fun about my Indiana Rookie League running in the background of the greater baseball universe. I dig it.

And yes, if you want to keep your sanity, turn off waivers. Hell, turn off the 40 man roster, too, but I've been doing that since v6.

This sounds awesome. This is the kind of depth that's missing from Puresim. This is the kind of depth that will make you come back for more over and over again. If they can fix the game up a bit and straighten out UI and AI quirks, we have ourselves a keeper.

[kcchief19]

This is great news now just if the releasing players and trading can be fixed if not the waivers this would be one to check out.
My initial experience in creating leagues doesn't really make what Gabe is saying sound that great. You can definitely tone down the foreign percentage, but that also tones down the size of the world. He makes it sound like that if you set foreign players at 10 percent you can have your scouts go find more foreign players than that -- you can't. No more or less than 10 percent of all created players will be foreign regardless of whether they are foreign free agents or in the draft.

My VERY preliminary investigation of the impact of running foreign leagues is this:

- If you want a "real life" experience, turn off trading with other major leagues. Leaving this on allows a soccer-like flow of players from one league to another that is just staggering and will end with the Yankees trading an in-his-prime Johnny Damon to some team in Veneuela.

- If you don't want trading with foreign leagues, I see no real reason to have them turned on at all. The only thing it would seem to do is add a past and history to foreign free agents who decide to come and play in America.

- Playing without foreign leagues seems to reduce the quality of foreign free agents. It won't be like real-life where you're the Braves and you're signing 16-year-olds in the Domincan. The talented foreign rookies will be in the draft. Finding substantial foreign free agents by souting the world looks to be like finding a needle in a haystack. Most will be duds. This probably overall a good thing.

Like I've said, none of this is necessarily a deal breaker -- but I think people should know what to expect.

[DanGarion]

It looks like the player histories may indeed be stored the same way in this version. When I just had my crash, I re-opened the game and it went back to Jan. 2 with my last save, but all the player histories had their news from the season -- I had simmed through April when I hit crash.
Yeah this happens, I've reported it as a bug.

[MizzouRah]

Keep the information coming fellas. It's actually been great waiting on this one as I've learned a TON since release.

Has anyone begun to look at stats yet? I listed a link a page or so back that had some settings which make the stats very MLB like. Just wondered if anyone has used them yet?

[DanGarion]

The Lahman database? :)
Well yeah, if you are doing historic.

[SirFozzie]

I'd love someone to do a quickstart for the major nations, and combine them (that way America/Japan etcetera will have the real names).. but quickstarts can't be combined can they?

[SackAttack]

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/SackAttack/armoff.jpg

First thought: Wow, poor bastard. I love that the Dodgers beat the shit out of the Giants' pitching, but 171 pitches? Talk about taking one for the team.

I clicked the player.

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/SackAttack/armoff2.jpg

Second thought: Ooooooh. That wasn't such a great idea.

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/SackAttack/armoff3.jpg

So let me get this straight, are they TRYING to kill the guy? Recoup the $12,980,000 still owed the dude because he's 36?

[aran]

Holy crap. he essentially pitched two full starts worth of baseball!

Well, I think you have something to fill in that nickname field with, now... "Dead Man Throwing"

EDIT: WOW... he threw almost more balls than strikes. 52% of his pitches were strikes. Abysmal.

[DaddyTorgo]

blah. that's not good AI right there.

[SackAttack]

Holy crap. he essentially pitched two full starts worth of baseball!

Well, I think you have something to fill in that nickname field with, now... "Dead Man Throwing"

I was thinking "Dravecky," but I'm not that cruel.

Even to the Giants.

And how impressive is it that he threw nearly as many strikes despite a noodle arm than the starter and first reliever threw pitches?

I'm not surprised he walked 9 guys. That's true grit.

[SackAttack]

Just for the hell of it:

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/SackAttack/justforfun.jpg

[cuervo72]

Sack, that looks like what happens in FOBL (v5) every now and then when all the other pitchers are tired. The game just doesn't know what else to do but to leave that guy in.

Case in point:
http://www.thefobl.com/fobl/box2396.html

or:
http://www.thefobl.com/fobl/box1425.html

Happens a few times each season. No Jose Canseco relief appearances in OOTP. So this is far from a new issue.

[DaddyTorgo]

jeezus, till the poor AI like that is fixed this game won't see my money. i hope it does get fixed and gets to see my money though.

[SackAttack]

Sack, that looks like what happens in FOBL (v5) every now and then when all the other pitchers are tired. The game just doesn't know what else to do but to leave that guy in.

Case in point:
http://www.thefobl.com/fobl/box2396.html

or:
http://www.thefobl.com/fobl/box1425.html

Happens a few times each season. No Jose Canseco relief appearances in OOTP. So this is far from a new issue.

True. But I have to think most managers would rather use several tired guys for an inning each than throw a tired closer out there for 6 innings. Still, it isn't something I'd ever seen in previous versions of OOTP.

[cuervo72]

We see it fairly often.

What the AI might need to do is to recognize this as a possibility and just keep the *starter* in there longer to take one for the team.

[SackAttack]

We see it fairly often.

What the AI might need to do is to recognize this as a possibility and just keep the *starter* in there longer to take one for the team.

Yeah, they probably should have left him out there for at least another inning or two. He only threw 73 pitches.

And really, my biggest beef here is pulling the 2nd reliever after just 21 pitches. That's just flat out irresponsible AI. Better that he throws 40 or 50 and then the closer comes in if he's all that's left than for him to throw one 21 pitch inning and then the closer throws 171.

[SirFozzie]

yeah, throw a starter in there, and bite the bulet and bring someone up the next day to fill in

[SackAttack]

Oh, and if ANYBODY should be throwing 170 pitches, it's the middle reliever, not the closer.

[Stevebsfan]

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/SackAttack/armoff.jpg

First thought: Wow, poor bastard. I love that the Dodgers beat the shit out of the Giants' pitching, but 171 pitches? Talk about taking one for the team.


Wow, playing the games out, i've noticed very long hooks with the AI in the game, it almost makes me not want to play right now. I'm managing a short seasoned league with a bunch of guys straight from the draft, and the opposing managers are leaving them out there for 120-135 pitches on avg it seems.

That pitch count is high for a major league pitcher, let alone a guy making his first minor league start.

I wish they had instructions from the 'big club' on how to handle certain prospects. You know in real life a GM tells minor league managers to get certain highly touted prospects in the game as much as possible, and tells them what limits they set on certain pitchers, how often they'd like them to go, etc. I know this because i'm pretty sure Theo Epstein does this with the Sox minor league system. Jon Lester was on a very strict pitch count early in the season per order from above. Craig Hansen is now starting minor league games in order to develop his pitches as quick as possible, opposed to just throwing an inning or two every few games. Another order from above.

Teams usually have a development type of system for the minor leagues, not one e-mail at the start of the season expecting them to at least play .500 ball. I'm sure my GM would rather me play his prized young prospect who has a ton of potential over a 28 year old with high ratings rotting away in A ball instead of playing the best guys and winning every day.

[Stevebsfan]

Oh, and if ANYBODY should be throwing 170 pitches, it's the middle reliever, not the closer.

If anybody throws 170 pitches in a game with arms available on the bullpen, i'd expect that manager to be fired the next day.

[SackAttack]

yeah, throw a starter in there, and bite the bulet and bring someone up the next day to fill in

Incidentally, it turns out that that's what happened with Bobby Salter. They signed him to a contract after the game, put him on the active roster, and DFA'd a couple dudes and demoted a couple others.

One of the demotees? A SP who hadn't pitched in the majors yet this season.

[SackAttack]

No, I'm sorry. I stand corrected. They made that move BEFORE the game. I'll be watching their post-game transactions.

[SackAttack]

They signed two outfielders to minor league contracts and didn't sign or call up any pitchers.

[Terps]

I had something like that happen to my closer. Pitched 4 or 5 innings in a blowout, well over 100 pitches. Only problem is, I had him on a 40 or 50 pitch count.

[SackAttack]

OOTP crashed, and I hadn't saved since the day before the 171 pitch game, so I had to reload.

Same thing happened - we beat the starter around (knocked him out in the 2nd instead of the 3rd this time), the same reliever pitched 'til the end of the 3rd, then the closer pitched the final six innings.

Much better control this time, though. He only threw 102 pitches and walked 2 guys instead of 9. :p

[Godzilla Blitz]

Just reading the about how you guys are figuring out how to set up a league makes my head spin.

Can I get university credit for playing this game?

[Young Drachma]

Just reading the about how you guys are figuring out how to set up a league makes my head spin.

Can I get university credit for playing this game?

Hmm...there's an idea for a class. ;)

[SackAttack]

I am.

So.

Fucking.

Tired.

Of changing the pinch hitter's position from PH to, say, SS, having SS go --, and then when I drag a new pitcher onto the mound, instead of inserting him in the lineup spot with the -- for position, the pitcher goes into the 9th spot, where I JUST PUT THE DAMN DEFENSIVE REPLACEMENT.

For the love of God, is it that hard for the computer to intuit, "hey, there's a defensive change with a player taking the place of an existing fielder, but in a different lineup spot, maybe we should put the new pitcher THERE"?

Augh.

[SackAttack]

OOTP is taking forever to load the results of my search, so I'm going to note the two things I just saw here.

1) When the umpire calls for an infield fly, doesn't matter WHERE the ball lands: on the second baseman's head, in the baserunner's crack, or just plain ol' on the infield dirt: batter-runner is OUT, and it's a dead ball. It's not a single. Or anything else, for that matter.

I mean, from an emotional perspective, it gave my #3 hitter a 4-4 day instead of a 3-4 day, and led to a pair of two-out runs (instead of the inning being over), but, uh - them ain't the rules.

2) I saw this in a previous version of OOTP, but the game seems to be tracking team LOB as the cumulative total of LOB for each individual batter, which also is incorrect.

[SackAttack]

Well, no, it's not a TRUE dead ball, as the runners can still advance at their own peril, but the infield fly causes a dead ball in the sense that if they don't bother to move off of their bases, there's no play, because they're not at peril to be put out on the play.

/clarification.

[Axxon]

if waivers are included in the game they should be on. ditto with foreign leagues. they should work in the way that they work in the real world, otherwise why bother to include them. it's like i'm paying for features i'm not using then. If you were deaf would you want to pay extra for a 6-disc CD changer in your car? I think not! Same thing here. Why pay for a feature if it's not going to be useable. If waivers and foreign countries are broken then the game should cost less or the features ought to be removed. Otherwise I'm paying for a feature I'm not using, which as a consumer I am opposed to.

I didn't want to comment on this but it's driving me crazy. I don't know if you're serious about this which to me would make me pity you or if you're just posturing t osupport your position which frankly isn't needed. You could just say you don't want anyone else to enjoy options that you don't use. I mean, wargames have "what if" scenarios don't they? Or, do you mean that you expect that a game that games should include real world functionality or they wouldn't be your cup of tea which giving you the benefit of the doubt is what I'd like to believe you mean? if it's the last though, your point misses the point.

Do you really have a problem with paying the base price for items if you don't utilize every feature of the item?

I don't smoke but I don't try and haggle with the dealership to remove the cigarette lighter. If I was deaf I wouldn't pay for a 6-disc CD changer but I wouldn't bitch if it was included and I didn't pay extra for it.

I could do without the silver wrapper on individual sticks of gum, I don't use every feature of Microsoft Word, I don't use the left back pocket of my jeans, I don't use every feature of my VCR, I don't always want tomatoes on my hamburger, the list goes on. I wouldn't pay extra for any of these things but I've never felt opposed to them being included in the basic package ( except the tomatoes which I simply ask them to remove. I don't ask for a discount ).

Your position seems weird enough to ask for clarification.

[Icy]

I didn't want to comment on this but it's driving me crazy. I don't know if you're serious about this which to me would make me pity you or if you're just posturing t osupport your position which frankly isn't needed. You could just say you don't want anyone else to enjoy options that you don't use. I mean, wargames have "what if" scenarios don't they? Or, do you mean that you expect that a game that games should include real world functionality or they wouldn't be your cup of tea which giving you the benefit of the doubt is what I'd like to believe you mean? if it's the last though, your point misses the point.

Do you really have a problem with paying the base price for items if you don't utilize every feature of the item?

I don't smoke but I don't try and haggle with the dealership to remove the cigarette lighter. If I was deaf I wouldn't pay for a 6-disc CD changer but I wouldn't bitch if it was included and I didn't pay extra for it.

I could do without the silver wrapper on individual sticks of gum, I don't use every feature of Microsoft Word, I don't use the left back pocket of my jeans, I don't use every feature of my VCR, I don't always want tomatoes on my hamburger, the list goes on. I wouldn't pay extra for any of these things but I've never felt opposed to them being included in the basic package ( except the tomatoes which I simply ask them to remove. I don't ask for a discount ).

Your position seems weird enough to ask for clarification.
I agree with your statement... but i think you didn't underestand what he wrote. What i underestand from his post is that he complains about why are added features that don't work properly, or you add them and they work as they should, or you don't add and don't advertise them, as some guys could buy the game based on that features that end not working properly. It's like if FOF advertises a 2D view for the next game, you buy it because that and then the 2D view is not working, you basicaly pay for something you won't enjoy.

Anyway it's just what i read from his post, but of course i'm not him. I also trust SI and Markus and i guess that those features (waivers, AI roster management and international leagues), will end working properly in OOTP after a couple of patches so i'm not really worried. Of course i'm a bit dissapointed that they don't work since day one as i really wanted to enjoy this game, but i'll play FM in the mean time. Sadly we are too used to games not being fully playable since the release day.

[Axxon]

I agree with your statement... but i think you didn't underestand what he wrote. What i underestand from his post is that he complains about why are added features that don't work properly, or you add them and they work as they should, or you don't add and don't advertise them, as some guys could buy the game based on that features that end not working properly. It's like if FOF advertises a 2D view for the next game, you buy it because that and then the 2D view is not working, you basicaly pay for something you won't enjoy.

Anyway it's just what i read from his post, but of course i'm not him. I also trust SI and Markus and i guess that those features (waivers, AI roster management and international leagues), will end working properly in OOTP after a couple of patches so i'm not really worried.

That's why I asked for clarification from him. I was getting what you read into it but the CD thing threw me off. Clearly he doesn't say the CD changer doesn't work but that since he's deaf he doesn't want it. That's the clarification I wanted.

Like I told him, if he meant what I thought he meant and what you read from it too, he stated it badly but if he truly meant he has a problem with paying the base price for features he won't use, then that's weird.

[Axxon]

I also trust SI and Markus and i guess that those features (waivers, AI roster management and international leagues), will end working properly in OOTP after a couple of patches so i'm not really worried. Of course i'm a bit dissapointed that they don't work since day one as i really wanted to enjoy this game, but i'll play FM in the mean time. Sadly we are too used to games not being fully playable since the release day.

Weirdly enough, I bought the game now because I trust SI to make things work correctly. I read enough in this thread to realize I'd be able to lose myself in the things they do right like the stats and the player cards that I'd be having fun looking at this stuff at least until the patch comes out since I don't really have a lot of playing time right now. :)

Sometimes, to me, learning a game is more fun than playing a game. I knew this pre computer. My friends and I would often buy games that we only played a couple of times but had so much fun learning that they never seemed a ripoff. I guess maybe we contributed to the whole getting used to games not being fully playable on release day trend. I don't know. But to me, the fun is in the learning something new and the anticipation that it'll be more fun than it usually turns out to be. *shurg*

Different strokes for different folks but to me, the cost/reward ratio works for a whole lot of games. The elite that pass this mark are the ones I remember forever but if I based my enjoyment of the hobby on this criteria I'd be a bitter, bitter man by now.

[Axxon]

Dola. I went out last night and had a meal and two excellent margaritas. My bill was more than the cost of this game. It was wonderful but the experience is over now. I'm very sure the honeymoon period for this game will last longer so it's money well spent.

That's my view of my hobby.

[Bee]

There's definitely a lot of bugs and issues with the game, but I have to say I'm having 10 times more fun with this game than any baseball game I've played. I love the fact that I can set things up with so many various options. I don't want to replay the MLB 20 times in a row. I like being able to create my own fictional universe where things aren't exactly like they are in the MLB with just the names changed to protect the innocent. If you're looking for an exact duplication of the MLB then the game probably falls short right now...of course, I have yet to see a game that met all the expectations some people have.

[Draft Dodger]

Dola. I went out last night and had a meal and two excellent margaritas. My bill was more than the cost of this game. It was wonderful but the experience is over now. I'm very sure the honeymoon period for this game will last longer so it's money well spent.

That's my view of my hobby.

I think I understand what you are saying: if you're drunk, the game is good!

:cool:

[Axxon]

I think I understand what you are saying: if you're drunk, the game is good!

:cool:

If you're drunk, it's all good. :D

[kcchief19]

OK, did I overlook another setting or is this the "1901" bug I've read about? I started a new league in 1901 and sent it to sim overnight. I come back this morning and start glancing around and I see that 1901 was played with 2006 era settings -- bunch of home runs and offense galore. All of the top offensive seasons were in 1901 with guys hitting 55 homers then everything goes to normally in 1902. After I set the eras, I searched for a button that would recalibrate the settings but didn't find it. It does recalibrate for subsequent seasons but not for the first season.

Is there a recalibration option I missed or does this go on the fix list?

[kcchief19]

Another neat thing -- I noticed a guy was leading the league in a couple of categories during my simming but didn't have a team, so I stopped the league to check him out. I was initially afraid that somebody had cut the league's leading hitter and nobody snatched him. Nope, on August 19 he ruptured a disc in his back and the next day Baltimore cut him. He officially announced his retirement September 9.

I like the idea that players don't automatically retire after an injury, even if it is career-ending. That said, I'm firmly in the camp that has always hated the career-ending injury in OOTP. There are almost no immediate career-ending injuries in baseball. Almost everybody tries to come back. I prefer the FOF career-ending injury where the guy is out for 52+ weeks and may try to come back or not. That's much more realistic to me.

At least this guy thought about trying to come back for a couple of weeks. :)

[kcchief19]

Sack, that looks like what happens in FOBL (v5) every now and then when all the other pitchers are tired. The game just doesn't know what else to do but to leave that guy in.

Case in point:
http://www.thefobl.com/fobl/box2396.html

or:
http://www.thefobl.com/fobl/box1425.html

Happens a few times each season. No Jose Canseco relief appearances in OOTP. So this is far from a new issue.
And this is at the crux of something that bothers me with some games, and with all due respect I think OOTP has been more guilty of this in the past than some others.

This game has been promoted as being a "brand new" engine and rebuilt from the ground up. I infer that means that the game design began with a blank sheet of paper and no new code. Yet there are a handful of bugs of bugs in this game that have been in previous versions of OOTP in their exact same format. So the development team made the same mistakes when redesigning the engine completely? That seems too coincidental.

It doesn't bother me that they reuse code, but I just dislike what I perceive as disingenuousness of giving the impression that code is not reused. However, I think that SI is a big-time positive influence on Markus and the OOTP group -- I get the impression thus far that they think more along the lines of the fanbase on what is a bug and should be remedy and what is a design choice.

[kcchief19]

Just reading the about how you guys are figuring out how to set up a league makes my head spin.

Can I get university credit for playing this game?
I don't think I'm ready to flipflop like Cooleyvol did over at the OOTP forums quite yet, but I will say this -- it gets better. The game gets less intimidating the more you use it. There are still things I think are a bit counter-intuitive, but my impression at this point is that this is a substantial upgrade over previous versions and worth the time time it takes to figure everything out.

The only thing that continues to disappoint me are the logistics of historic play. It was always frustrating to create a realistic historic replace spanning eras -- particularly the expansion era. But now the difficult level has been increased by a magnitude of 100 in this version.

First, playing with historic teams essentially means playing without minors unless you have your PhD in OOTP BM Customization. Minor leagues don't create automatically with an import league. If you choose to play with minor leagues, you need to do it all yourself. Expansion is still manual too. You have to add the teams yourself and there is no expansion draft. Expansion teams also get added in the preseason after players are already imported, which means that even if you are importing players on to their original teams in year one of a new franchise you have to add all those players by hand. If you're playing with minors on, you'll have to create minor league teams during expansion too.

If you're like Bucc and you only play in an era where league size is constant, it's not a big deal at all. What I can't figure out is this -- Baseball Mogul is a game that in almost all respects is inferior to OOTP and this version of OOTP in particular. But Baseball Mogul got historic expansion right and made it so freakin' easy. Why can't OOTP figure that out? It doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to automate historic expansion -- if Clay can do it, why can't Markus?

[Galaril]

I don't think I'm ready to flipflop like Cooleyvol did over at the OOTP forums quite yet, but I will say this -- it gets better. The game gets less intimidating the more you use it. There are still things I think are a bit counter-intuitive, but my impression at this point is that this is a substantial upgrade over previous versions and worth the time time it takes to figure everything out.

The only thing that continues to disappoint me are the logistics of historic play. It was always frustrating to create a realistic historic replace spanning eras -- particularly the expansion era. But now the difficult level has been increased by a magnitude of 100 in this version.

First, playing with historic teams essentially means playing without minors unless you have your PhD in OOTP BM Customization. Minor leagues don't create automatically with an import league. If you choose to play with minor leagues, you need to do it all yourself. Expansion is still manual too. You have to add the teams yourself and there is no expansion draft. Expansion teams also get added in the preseason after players are already imported, which means that even if you are importing players on to their original teams in year one of a new franchise you have to add all those players by hand. If you're playing with minors on, you'll have to create minor league teams during expansion too.

If you're like Bucc and you only play in an era where league size is constant, it's not a big deal at all. What I can't figure out is this -- Baseball Mogul is a game that in almost all respects is inferior to OOTP and this version of OOTP in particular. But Baseball Mogul got historic expansion right and made it so freakin' easy. Why can't OOTP figure that out? It doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to automate historic expansion -- if Clay can do it, why can't Markus?


Good question.

[Axxon]

Why can't OOTP figure that out? It doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to automate historic expansion -- if Clay can do it, why can't Markus?

Clay didn't have to factor in the effects of expansion on the Outer Cumquat league on Ultima Thule.

[MizzouRah]

It doesn't bother me that they reuse code, but I just dislike what I perceive as disingenuousness of giving the impression that code is not reused. However, I think that SI is a big-time positive influence on Markus and the OOTP group -- I get the impression thus far that they think more along the lines of the fanbase on what is a bug and should be remedy and what is a design choice.

After reading posts over at the ootp forums, this is the reason I'm still thinking I might end up getting this game. It appears to me SI is really envolved with making sure the game gets patched and promptly. The only question is, "Can Markus do it?".

[cuervo72]

Of changing the pinch hitter's position from PH to, say, SS, having SS go --, and then when I drag a new pitcher onto the mound, instead of inserting him in the lineup spot with the -- for position, the pitcher goes into the 9th spot, where I JUST PUT THE DAMN DEFENSIVE REPLACEMENT.

For the love of God, is it that hard for the computer to intuit, "hey, there's a defensive change with a player taking the place of an existing fielder, but in a different lineup spot, maybe we should put the new pitcher THERE"?

Augh.

Must be an American League AI.

(This really got to me some years ago when Josh Lewin - who is by all accounts a pretty decent announcer now - was doing a non-DH game and just could not understand what had happened after a double switch. He went on and on about how the pinch hitter stayed in the game and was now in the field. He couldn't figure out how that could be possible. Now, he was primarily an AL guy as he was doing O's games at the time...but it was still pretty pathetic.)

[cuervo72]

It doesn't bother me that they reuse code, but I just dislike what I perceive as disingenuousness of giving the impression that code is not reused. However, I think that SI is a big-time positive influence on Markus and the OOTP group -- I get the impression thus far that they think more along the lines of the fanbase on what is a bug and should be remedy and what is a design choice.

I'll echo what I've said before (possibly at the FOBL forum and not here) - I think it is entirely possible that Markus didn't reuse actual lines of code for this. But, I also think it's possible that having knowledge of how the game was programmed before, he quite likely built the new code with the same logic as he had used before. Basically, coding the same functions twice. While some of the syntax might be a little different, the functionality is basically the same. So while bugs in the code might not be there, flaws in the logic could very well remain.

I also don't have an issue with using code from FM (as some seem to) - that just seems to be streamlined programming to me. That's the point of modular programming anyway.

I'll also echo the sentiment that the more you get used to it, the more you warm to the game. Scouting is pretty involved, but if I'm willing to take a career slow - day by day - it's not that bad. Some days that's all you're doing, really. I could see myself doing this in a career, considering I used to sim out 162 games for various teams in MicroLeague (each taking about an hour). Just something I have to get used to again. Also, I'm having a much better time at navigating around. It's not exactly second nature yet, but definitely getting better. There are still oddities with how the AI picks up players (I found a STUD 1B in FA in a small league and signed him for peanuts, only to get a trade proposal for him the following week), but I'm getting more into my first startup career.

Now...the main reason I picked up the game was in anticipation of the FOBL moving from v5 to 2006. This I'm not completely sold on, though I figure we'll be doing it eventually. Most of the additions to the game to me seem to be things that will be interesting for single player careers. For leagues, I'm not so sure. We already run w/o scouts, w/o coaches, w/o waivers, and have finances and contracts outside of the game. We'll be turning all of this off again I'm fairly certain. We're also not likely to change the league structure...so the international aspect of the game won't come into play.

So what does that leave? Beefed up HTML, for one. Problem there is, we're doing pretty well just with Cato and BOSI, and will probably be taking a step BACK until newer equivalents of these tools pop up (the game history still seems watered down compared to Cato to me). Another thing is more management of the minors. I really do like the idea of this, following actual games for minor leaguers is a great addition. Unfortunately, it requires teams to actually have full minors. Problem is...the FOBL has FAR from a full minors (see http://www.thefobl.com/fobl/team34m.html , http://www.thefobl.com/fobl/team20m.html for instance). Definitely issues there.

I think the big hope for some is that screwy AI decisions would be fixed. Things like RP abuse, for instance. I guess we have to wait a bit for that. At least maybe there won't be as many double steals in odd situations and line-outs to the catcher...

[FBPro]

But in all reasonable thought to say that Clay can add expansion to BM so Markus should be able to as well is like saying a Yugo and a Ferrari are on the same footing as far as cars go. They are somewhat the same 4 wheels, doors, seats, etc........BUT there are also unfathomable differences in the two which make comparison laughable. I'm not saying it isn't possible I'm just saying you can't compare adding it to one as being the same as adding it to the other.

[Buccaneer]

kc, I know we've discussed this before but I have found team movement/expansion in v5 to be fun to do. Sure it's manual but I like that it is not automated. As you know, I play in the 50s where there are 5 teams moving - that's easy. Then I hit the early 60s and you have the AL expanding 10 teams and then on eor two years later, the NL does the same thing. However in one career, I delayed the AL expansion until 1962 so I could do both at the same time. Takes about 5 minutes to do, including putting in the updated logos and stadiums.

With a game that has so many options, it doesn't make any sense to not give the gamer the option on historical movement/expansion. I would agree that an option could be given to automate this part but I would not ever play that way.

[dervack]

kc, I know we've discussed this before but I have found team movement/expansion in v5 to be fun to do. Sure it's manual but I like that it is not automated. As you know, I play in the 50s where there are 5 teams moving - that's easy. Then I hit the early 60s and you have the AL expanding 10 teams and then on eor two years later, the NL does the same thing. However in one career, I delayed the AL expansion until 1962 so I could do both at the same time. Takes about 5 minutes to do, including putting in the updated logos and stadiums.

With a game that has so many options, it doesn't make any sense to not give the gamer the option on historical movement/expansion. I would agree that an option could be given to automate this part but I would not ever play that way.
See, I don't want it to be automatic. I want the ability to tell the game I want to expand, for me to pick where the teams are going and what the names are going to be, and then hold an expansion draft. I know that it seems hard for Markus to code as it's been asked for by many for years. But it would be great if we could do it that way then the manual way, which takes longer sometimes than most people will want to spend adding teams and then players to that team.

[miked]

Question for the guys who own the game and are playing the hell out of it...

In the UBL (our pseudo-FOFC OOTP league), I run a separate Euro league from which we import certain FA's that meet a specific criteria. Is it possible to import our 2 leagues into the same universe, but only have players flow one way (from EBF to UBL)? Would it just be better to turn foreign FA's up and jack up the amount? We get about 5-10 FA's each season that are eligible...is it possible to reproduce this?

Thanks!

[Maple Leafs]

All this baseball talk has me interested in firing up OOTP6 while I wait for the 2006 demo. Does anyone know if there are any rosters available for this season?

[jbmagic]

After reading posts over at the ootp forums, this is the reason I'm still thinking I might end up getting this game. It appears to me SI is really envolved with making sure the game gets patched and promptly. The only question is, "Can Markus do it?".


How can you have confidence in Markus, if the same Ai bugs from previous versions are in the new engine of ootp 2006?

Do you honestly think after the game gets patch it will be fix finally?

These Ai bugs for waivers, trades, and releases has been going on for a long time. And I don't see those getting fix. I hope I am wrong.

Now these new bugs in ootp 2006 that we never seen in previous versions, I have confidence Markus will fix those in the incoming patches.

I just not understanding how the same old bugs are still in the new engine of ootp 2006.

I have confidence in SI, but your right can Markus do it.

I going to wait and see.

[SackAttack]

Must be an American League AI.

(This really got to me some years ago when Josh Lewin - who is by all accounts a pretty decent announcer now - was doing a non-DH game and just could not understand what had happened after a double switch. He went on and on about how the pinch hitter stayed in the game and was now in the field. He couldn't figure out how that could be possible. Now, he was primarily an AL guy as he was doing O's games at the time...but it was still pretty pathetic.)

People get confused, I can see that.

Vin Scully went off one time about how a scoreboard in Arizona was broken because it was tracking balls, strikes, and pitch counts.

He was looking at the strike and pitch count part of it, and for the life of him he couldn't figure out why the scoreboard was showing a 2-15 count.

[MizzouRah]

All this baseball talk has me interested in firing up OOTP6 while I wait for the 2006 demo. Does anyone know if there are any rosters available for this season?

Yes, here if you have access to the ootp forums:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?t=114738

In fact, the whole league setup is about the best I've used since playing ootp. I'm in 2008 now and have had an absolute blast starting off with these.

[MizzouRah]

How can you have confidence in Markus, if the same Ai bugs from previous versions are in the new engine of ootp 2006?

Do you honestly think after the game gets patch it will be fix finally?

These Ai bugs for waivers, trades, and releases has been going on for a long time. And I don't see those getting fix. I hope I am wrong.

Now these new bugs in ootp 2006 that we never seen in previous versions, I have confidence Markus will fix those in the incoming patches.

I just not understanding how the same old bugs are still in the new engine of ootp 2006.

I have confidence in SI, but your right can Markus do it.

I going to wait and see.

If it can be fixed to be on par with 6.5 AND have all the new things 2006 has, I'll be happy. I don't think the MR issue is in the new version, at least I haven't read anything about it yet and goofy waivers.. although irks me, I can deal with.

[TroyF]

How can you have confidence in Markus, if the same Ai bugs from previous versions are in the new engine of ootp 2006?

Do you honestly think after the game gets patch it will be fix finally?

These Ai bugs for waivers, trades, and releases has been going on for a long time. And I don't see those getting fix. I hope I am wrong.

Now these new bugs in ootp 2006 that we never seen in previous versions, I have confidence Markus will fix those in the incoming patches.

I just not understanding how the same old bugs are still in the new engine of ootp 2006.

I have confidence in SI, but your right can Markus do it.

I going to wait and see.

My confidence is in SI. I fully expect SI to demand the core features of the game work. (ie: pitchers not playing the field, stat bugs, etc.)

Can Markus fix the waivers and some of the other issues? I don't think he can. I think some things are so far gone, they cannot be fixed. And my line of thinking is like JIMG, I think to fix some of this stuff it may take a new game designer.

It may be nasty to say, but we've been dealing with these same issues for four versions now. Get the damned things fixed already.

Still, I'm enjoying my time with OOTP. Frustrated? yes. Baffled on occasion? yes.

But it's been an enjoyable experience. I just pray to the Gods he gets the core issues fixed. I'll be more than happy to turn off waivers, other leagues and anything else if the core game works.

[TroyF]

A quick update: These are the things already fixed according to the Marc Duffy at the OOTP board: (I've bolded the things I find incredibly important)

General
Added the option to disable the news ticker to the game preferences
Added "Run computer manager on all teams" to the "Other Functions" menu of the league setup
Fixed problems with insufficient players on AI rosters (#1497)
Fixed crash problem when asking manager to set up depth charts (#1490)
Added ratings to the player lists used in the transaction screen and the trade screen
Fixed problems with nationalities and filters (#1493, #1496)
Fixed default Minor League city repeating (#1474)
Fixed buttons not adding correct amounts on the contract screen (#1476)
Fixed some inaugral draft head scout rating issues (#1478)
Fixed splitseason issue with playoffs (#1480)
Fixed unaffiliated minor league teams spending silly money on trades (#1482)
Fixed issue where subleague was duplicated on setup page (#1484)
Added more checks for a human controlled lineup before entering the game screen (#1617)
Fixed a problem with assigning SB stats on double-steals (#1615)
Improved rookie draft AI (#1614)
Fixed several cosmetic issues (#1611,
Fixed unwanted AI substitutions when simming to inning X (#1607)
Adjusted player photo loading, named photos have priority now and png's work now (#1605, #1430)
Fixed human manager age calculation when creating new game (#1580)
Fixed missing results from game log (#1572)
Fixed PbP problems on bunt plays (#1570)
Fixed crash problems when creating very small leagues (less than 5 teams)
Fixed in-game crash problems (#1561)
Improved retiring logic (#1549)
Improved trade AI when cash is involved (#1542)
Fixed the problem of pitchers playing other positions too often late in ballgames
Fixed CF importing from OOTP 6.5, some did not get an overall fielding rating (#1348)
Fixed illegal number of pitcher problem (#1405, #1421)
Fixed crash when opening empty game logs
Fixed filter coaches by league bug (#1424)
Fixed problem with crediting saves (#1425)
Improved batter development algorythm (#1454, #1456)
Improved AI minor league roster management (#1459, #1465)
Fixed game not ending properly when hitting "enter" after the game ended (#1463, #1464)
Fixed crashing on right-clicking on certain players (#1481)
Fixed crashing after importing certain OOTP 6.5 leagues together with standard leagues (#1483)
Fixed crash when sorting players by nickname (#1544)
Added notification on auto-fill lineups when the depth chart is not filled properly (#1551)
Fixed crashing on inning-ending injuries
Opening day starting pitchers selction improved (#1623)
Fixed players becoming coaches birthdate (#1626)
Spring stats now appear in team reports (#1410)
Fixed DFA loophole (#1498)

Skins

Fixed Pearl skin loading times

Schedules

Added information to the schedule evaluation report

Importing

Fixed problem with importing multiple OOTP 6 leagues into a signle OOTP 2006 game (#1495)

Play-by-Play and In-Game Text
Fixed issue with PbP showing a fielder named Davis when no player was named Davis
Fixed issue where text (nL) would show up in some PbP commentary(#1590)
Fixed issue where (%game fielder] was displayed(#1591)
Fixed issue where "OBP" was incorrectly written as "OPB"
Fixed issue where player is credited with a sacrifice bunt when the runner didn't advance (#1570)

[Marc Duffy]

After reading posts over at the ootp forums, this is the reason I'm still thinking I might end up getting this game. It appears to me SI is really envolved with making sure the game gets patched and promptly. The only question is, "Can Markus do it?".

He sure can, I've had him slumped at his computer all weekend!

[Marc Duffy]

Just as a side note : Markus today went through all the high priority bugs logged in the system from the technical support forum. Most were fixed as you can see on the changelist. Some we needed more info for and a couple were flagged for patch 2 which i stress should tackle some of the more complex issues being raised.

I'm confident that we can achieve much of what you guys want irrelevant if it's a problem you've experienced in the past or not

[SackAttack]

Marc, how about the wacky pitcher usage?

[Eaglesfan27]

Just as a side note : Markus today went through all the high priority bugs logged in the system from the technical support forum. Most were fixed as you can see on the changelist. Some we needed more info for and a couple were flagged for patch 2 which i stress should tackle some of the more complex issues being raised.

I'm confident that we can achieve much of what you guys want irrelevant if it's a problem you've experienced in the past or not


I really hope so. I'm looking forward to hearing in the upcoming weeks/months that all of the significant problems have been fixed and this game is reaching its potential. If so, I've got my credit card ready to order. :)

[Eaglesfan27]

Marc, how about the wacky pitcher usage?


I think it is one of things that TroyF bolded in his post.


Edit: Nevermind, you weren't talking about pitchers playing the field. My bad.

[SackAttack]

Speaking of which, the Diamondbacks just had to use their closer for 4 innings, which initially set off alarm bells, until I noticed a larger problem - they were carrying only 9 pitchers, and had already used two of their three middle relievers (the other had been used the day before).

[SackAttack]

I think it is one of things that TroyF bolded in his post.

wrong wacky pitcher usage. I don't mean playing the field.

I mean closers pitching 6 innings, that sort of thing.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I haven't bought the new OOTP, but if SI can get Markus to fix these long-standing problems, I'm going to go over to Europe and tongue-kiss every single one of the guys there.

[SackAttack]

Pumpy, I thought you WANTED those problems fixed.

You're confusing me here, man!

[Marc Duffy]

I haven't bought the new OOTP, but if SI can get Markus to fix these long-standing problems, I'm going to go over to Europe and tongue-kiss every single one of the guys there.

I'm primed and ready for your visit!!

[Pumpy Tudors]

:D

[TroyF]

Marc,

One little note about the exact wording of the bug listing here:

Fixed the problem of pitchers playing other positions too often late in ballgames


Too often should be virtually nil. It should happen maybe two or three times a year, if that. MLB pitchers make to much money and are to valuable in this day and age to have them play 3B or LF even for an inning at a time.

I remember it being done on occasion by Herzog and some other creative managers, but those were for some very specific purposes. (ie: with a lefty, rightie, lefty coming up, Herzog might call on his lefty reliever to get the first guy out, then move him to RF for the right handed hitter and then put him back on the mound for the next lefty)

If Markus is ingenious enough to create that scenario, that's terrific. Other than that, it simply shouldn't happen at all.

[SackAttack]

Oh, interesting.

My third baseman apparently has no position.

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/SackAttack/position.jpg

Maybe he needs to be a DH.

[SackAttack]

I love this scouting report.

"Boss,

Our coaches have reported that 19-year-old left fielder Teo Toble looks very uncomfortable at the plate these days."

followed by:

"His overall record up to this point in the season shows the following: 5 games played, .350 BA..."

If that's uncomfortable at the plate, feed the rest of my prospects what we're feeding Toble, please.

[lynchjm24]

I love this scouting report.

"Boss,

Our coaches have reported that 19-year-old left fielder Teo Toble looks very uncomfortable at the plate these days."

followed by:

"His overall record up to this point in the season shows the following: 5 games played, .350 BA..."

If that's uncomfortable at the plate, feed the rest of my prospects what we're feeding Toble, please.

I got the pitching version as well. So and so looks uncomfortable on the mound.

Blah blah new ratings which are lower.

He's very confident this season, in 17 IP he's given up 15 hits and 2 ER and has an ERA of 1.whatever.... and he's 19 and in the FSL.

I guess it's safe to say that the minor league stats don't have anything to do with development or my scout's opinion of the player.

[Axxon]

I love this scouting report.

"Boss,

Our coaches have reported that 19-year-old left fielder Teo Toble looks very uncomfortable at the plate these days."

followed by:

"His overall record up to this point in the season shows the following: 5 games played, .350 BA..."

If that's uncomfortable at the plate, feed the rest of my prospects what we're feeding Toble, please.

Maybe he did look very uncomfortable at the plate.

Maybe the pitcher looked even more uncomfortable when he was at the plate though. :)

[SackAttack]

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/SackAttack/statline.jpg

I love this guy.

[SackAttack]

It looks as though I'm scheduled to play 25% of my road games in the month of April. We've played 10 straight already, and it looks like there's 12-13 more games left on the road trip before we get our first home game.

Has anybody else run into anything like that, either at home or on the road?

[Barkeep49]

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/SackAttack/statline.jpg

I love this guy.
Is that Joe Mauer's line?

[Axxon]

It looks as though I'm scheduled to play 25% of my road games in the month of April. We've played 10 straight already, and it looks like there's 12-13 more games left on the road trip before we get our first home game.

Has anybody else run into anything like that, either at home or on the road?

The New Orleans Saints last season in football. ;)

[SackAttack]

Is that Joe Mauer's line?

Nah, I'm not using real rosters.

That's my left fielder.

[SackAttack]

The New Orleans Saints last season in football. ;)

Meh, the football equivalent of what's happening to me is playing four straight on the road to open the season before you come home.

We're gonna be 1/4 of the way through our road record before we ever have the home opener.

[kcchief19]

But in all reasonable thought to say that Clay can add expansion to BM so Markus should be able to as well is like saying a Yugo and a Ferrari are on the same footing as far as cars go. They are somewhat the same 4 wheels, doors, seats, etc........BUT there are also unfathomable differences in the two which make comparison laughable. I'm not saying it isn't possible I'm just saying you can't compare adding it to one as being the same as adding it to the other. Have you played the last two or three versions of Baseball Mogul? I might have agreed with the statement five years ago, but BM is a much better sim than it once was. I think saying OOTP is a Ferrari and BM is a Yugo is overrating one and underrating the other. I'd say OOTP is a fully loaded Honda Accord and BM is a base model Honda Civic. The Accord has a lot of what you want, but the Civic is a sturdy workhorse.

I'll echo what I've said before (possibly at the FOBL forum and not here) - I think it is entirely possible that Markus didn't reuse actual lines of code for this. But, I also think it's possible that having knowledge of how the game was programmed before, he quite likely built the new code with the same logic as he had used before. Basically, coding the same functions twice. While some of the syntax might be a little different, the functionality is basically the same. So while bugs in the code might not be there, flaws in the logic could very well remain.
I do consider that a likely possibility. I ask myself that if you know something doesn't work as intended because your customers have told you so and you are building the code, why wouldn't you try something different? I think you would -- and if you do try something different, I would expect that the likelihood is you would get a different result, not necessarily the exact same result you received with a different course of action.

It was, however, rude of me to make the suggestion that the code isn't completely rewritten. The logic cuervo lays out is perfectly reasonable.

[kcchief19]

kc, I know we've discussed this before but I have found team movement/expansion in v5 to be fun to do. Sure it's manual but I like that it is not automated. As you know, I play in the 50s where there are 5 teams moving - that's easy. Then I hit the early 60s and you have the AL expanding 10 teams and then on eor two years later, the NL does the same thing. However in one career, I delayed the AL expansion until 1962 so I could do both at the same time. Takes about 5 minutes to do, including putting in the updated logos and stadiums.

With a game that has so many options, it doesn't make any sense to not give the gamer the option on historical movement/expansion. I would agree that an option could be given to automate this part but I would not ever play that way.
Perfectly reasonable point. My question is why can't you do both? I think BM had that, didn't it -- the option to turn historical expansion on or off?

I suppose if you've do it a few times, expansion in OOTP5 becomes rote. I could never do it without having TigerFan's instruction sheet for how to do it, and it never took me only 5 minutes. But trust me -- expansion in OOTP 2k6 with minor leagues on won't take five minutes, and the margin for error will be more significant.

[lynchjm24]

Does anyone else have the waiver wire disappear in the time between the amature draft pool being announced and the amature draft. For the month of May the waiver wire was gone, now that the draft is over, it's back.

[FBPro]

Have you played the last two or three versions of Baseball Mogul? I might have agreed with the statement five years ago, but BM is a much better sim than it once was. I think saying OOTP is a Ferrari and BM is a Yugo is overrating one and underrating the other. I'd say OOTP is a fully loaded Honda Accord and BM is a base model Honda Civic. The Accord has a lot of what you want, but the Civic is a sturdy workhorse
Well, though I haven't played the newest version I have played last years and if only taking into account the sheer number of options available in the games I still feel that my example is probably more true to form. Functionality wise you maybe correct but due to the amount of possible configurations and the need to keep things adjusted correctly there are just too many more possiblities in OOTP to compare them in number to BM.

[CraigSca]

Threads like these are why Jim's games are the way they are. People complain about lack of flexibility and then when a developer tries for the promised land they mock it into submission.

Not saying I agree or disagree with it - just telling it like it is.

[Axxon]

Meh, the football equivalent of what's happening to me is playing four straight on the road to open the season before you come home.

We're gonna be 1/4 of the way through our road record before we ever have the home opener.

True, the Saints had it far worse. They never had a home opener or even a home game. :(

[JonInMiddleGA]

then when a developer tries for the promised land but instead manages to play pitchers in LF on a regular basis, has scouting reports that don't make sense compared to the performance of the player and other silly errors that an average ten year old baseball fan would notice they mock it into submission

Fixed that for you.

[CraigSca]

Well yeah...but besides that. I don't know why he does what he does - he just doesn't know when to say when.

[TroyF]

Threads like these are why Jim's games are the way they are. People complain about lack of flexibility and then when a developer tries for the promised land they mock it into submission.

Not saying I agree or disagree with it - just telling it like it is.


Whoa. I think you need to take a step back.

Amazingly, with all the problems this game has (and it has a crapload of them), we've taken it fairly easy on the game. We aren't unhappy Markus has tried to shoot for the moon.

Jim's games get the same degree of heat as this, sometimes a lot more for his "design decisions" What's the point of flexibility and a wide sweeping universe if it doesn't work? I mean, waivers is almost beyond repair. He hasn't got em to work with any game yet and it's not even close at this point.

So are we angry that he gave us the flexibility to have waivers or angry that they are there and aren't even close to working? I'll take the "disagree" option if you don't mind.

[BreizhManu]

Found another bug, when you create a crappy league (I created France) and you try to limit the number of foreigners, the game assumes that American are not foreigners.

And since I limited the talent pool to crappy local players, after a season, the league is full of Americans (teams went on from 0 to 40 or so) which might be reallistic but was not the point.

Else I'm having a blast, but Markus has not exploited that much the CM/FM engine :

- On the scouting point of view, I'd like to see a real scouting report, not just numbers.

- More interaction with the players, not just during contract negociation, e.g the player not showing to a training, requesting playing time, a trade etc...

- Coach reports that say something else than he is doing bad/good

- Media interaction ?

In fact all the points that make FM the best SMG.
So far Markus clearly just made another version of OOTP, but the game is just a rookie with lots of potential, and I don't think it will improve with patches, we will have to wait for next version for all that.

[MrBug708]

Did you try creating it with 100% to see what happens?

[Galaril]

Found another bug, when you create a crappy league (I created France) and you try to limit the number of foreigners, the game assumes that American are not foreigners.

And since I limited the talent pool to crappy local players, after a season, the league is full of Americans (teams went on from 0 to 40 or so) which might be reallistic but was not the point.

Else I'm having a blast, but Markus has not exploited that much the CM/FM engine :

- On the scouting point of view, I'd like to see a real scouting report, not just numbers.

- More interaction with the players, not just during contract negociation, e.g the player not showing to a training, requesting playing time, a trade etc...

- Coach reports that say something else than he is doing bad/good

- Media interaction ?

In fact all the points that make FM the best SMG.
So far Markus clearly just made another version of OOTP, but the game is just a rookie with lots of potential, and I don't think it will improve with patches, we will have to wait for next version for all that.

First off, with all due respect to people such as you who are playing inetnational leagues those kind of issues ie.Americans being in a Spanish league should be lower priority for now since that is the least worries these guys got now.

I hope i am proven wrong but I agree with this statement "I don't think it will improve with patches, we will have to wait for next version for all that" Well, it will improve just not to a very enjoyable level I think with the type of MAJOR design issues/bugs this one has.

[kcchief19]

Threads like these are why Jim's games are the way they are. People complain about lack of flexibility and then when a developer tries for the promised land they mock it into submission.

Not saying I agree or disagree with it - just telling it like it is.
I'm pretty much with Troy on this one. I don't think this game is getting mocked into submission. If you compare this thread with the Maximum Football thread, I think you'd come away with the conclusion that OOTP is the greatest computer game since Pong. I also don't think the criticism of the game has been that heavy. I'd term the reaction favorable, but I think the reaction is delayed because the game is so large there is a lot to take in.

But I beg to differ on the comparison to Jim. I think Jim has always been very upfront about what his games will be. TCY proved that. Even before the game was released he said some people won't like it because it's not a recreation of college football -- it was a college football game that he wanted to play.

I think OOTP stakes a claim to customization, but the end product doesn't always deliver on that claim no matter how good the game might be. That's why I've taken some pains at times to say what I think OOTP is and what it isn't -- because I don't think Markus does a good job of that. I think 2k6 will be a very good game -- but I don't know if it will be the all things to all people that it's sometimes hyped to be. It is what it is, just like Jim's games are.

[BreizhManu]

First off, with all due respect to people such as you who are playing inetnational leagues those kind of issues ie.Americans being in a Spanish league should be lower priority for now since that is the least worries these guys got now.

Even for me it is a minor issue, like most people I play either the MLB or a fictional league were this is not a factor, but still since that bug exists, it though it would be good to report it.

[BreizhManu]

Did you try creating it with 100% to see what happens?

Ok my bad, I got the bug wrong, I've just tried with 100%, the problem comes from the fact that there are 3 limits :

- number of foreigners
- number of foreign pitchers
- number of foreign batters

And the thing is that the game does not care of the number of foreigners limit, if you say 5 and 5 pitchers and 5 batters (for me it implies that you can have a maximum of 5 five foreigners of any kind), the game understands he can have as much as 5 pitchers AND 5 batters. Most teams now have 7-8 foreigners.

Plus it is the number of foreigners per team, not organization.

Anyway like I said, that's not a big deal.

[astrosfan64]

It is a great game warts and all. It will only get better.

[SackAttack]

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/SackAttack/statline2.jpg

I'm gonna go ahead and guess Goodloe never sees anything worth hitting against the lefties.

[SirFozzie]

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/SackAttack/statline2.jpg

I'm gonna go ahead and guess Goodloe never sees anything worth hitting against the lefties.

Plus that's a rather limited stat sample..

[SackAttack]

Plus that's a rather limited stat sample..

I know it is. I'm mostly giggling over the fact that he's got a huge OBP vs lefties and crap BA, with more moderate numbers both ways against righties.

[CraigSca]

Good Lord - you're stretching here, aren't you?

[SackAttack]

Good Lord - you're stretching here, aren't you?

Can I post ANYTHING that amuses me without it being taken as a criticism of the game? I have issues with OOTP, but this ain't one of them.

That stat split just made me laugh and I had to share it with you guys.

[Marc Duffy]

So far Markus clearly just made another version of OOTP, but the game is just a rookie with lots of potential, and I don't think it will improve with patches, we will have to wait for next version for all that.

Well, yes he just made another version of OOTP. FM got to the level it's at over the course of 13/14 years and so perhaps over time we can explore some of the finer aspects of FM and put them in OOTP.

I'm sure via the patches we'll improve the game!

[Bee]

I hope he fixes the AI evaluation of veterans with large contracts. I think that's one of the major causes of trade and waiver wire issues.

[TroyF]

I hope he fixes the AI evaluation of veterans with large contracts. I think that's one of the major causes of trade and waiver wire issues.


Agreed.

[miked]

Question for the guys who own the game and are playing the hell out of it...

In the UBL (our pseudo-FOFC OOTP league), I run a separate Euro league from which we import certain FA's that meet a specific criteria. Is it possible to import our 2 leagues into the same universe, but only have players flow one way (from EBF to UBL)? Would it just be better to turn foreign FA's up and jack up the amount? We get about 5-10 FA's each season that are eligible...is it possible to reproduce this?

Thanks!

Sorry to bump, but this may have gotten lost...

[lighthousekeeper]

So far Markus clearly just made another version of OOTP, but the game is just a rookie with lots of potential, and I don't think it will improve with patches, we will have to wait for next version for all that.

What's all this talk about OOTP being a rookie? He's been playing in the pros for 8 years now. Time to DFA?

[TroyF]

Sorry to bump, but this may have gotten lost...

I'm sorry, but I have zero idea if this will work or not.

[BreizhManu]

What's all this talk about OOTP being a rookie? He's been playing in the pros for 8 years now. Time to DFA?

Considering it has been rewritten from scratch, let's say it is a college senior getting to the pros ;)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Considering it has been rewritten from scratch, let's say it is a college senior getting to the pros ;)

So you believe that it's truly "rewritten from scratch" in spite of the repeat of the same problems that have been around for so long?

[MJ4H]

As was pointed out earlier, it is possible to rewrite a program and have the same logical flaws in the way you constructed the program show up in the new version. It doesn't have to be the exact same lines of code to follow similar logic that may be flawed.

[Apathetic Lurker]

anybody know what I do now?

I created a league with the lahman db for 2005, added all the minors and took over the Jays. I hit spring training and the rookie league has no players(the teams only have scouts and managers etc...). game wont let me advance even when i go into game setup and try to fill each minor league with fictional players..

keeps telling me team X has no players

[JonInMiddleGA]

As was pointed out earlier, it is possible to rewrite a program and have the same logical flaws in the way you constructed the program show up in the new version. It doesn't have to be the exact same lines of code to follow similar logic that may be flawed.

Then does that really qualify as "rewritten from scratch"?
I mean, if I duplicate large chunks of a media plan from something I did last year, I wouldn't say that the new one is entirely "from scratch".

[Bee]

Then does that really qualify as "rewritten from scratch"?
I mean, if I duplicate large chunks of a media plan from something I did last year, I wouldn't say that the new one is entirely "from scratch".

Rewritten from scratch does not mean original and creative. I think all of us probably take things from one project and apply what we've learned to our next project. Sometimes those things are flawed and you get the same mistakes in multiple projects until you learn better. Hopefully Markus learns better soon. :D

[Icy]

anybody know what I do now?

I created a league with the lahman db for 2005, added all the minors and took over the Jays. I hit spring training and the rookie league has no players(the teams only have scouts and managers etc...). game wont let me advance even when i go into game setup and try to fill each minor league with fictional players..

keeps telling me team X has no players

Known bug, you can't play with lahman and minors by now. Take a look at ootp boards to see some alternatives until the bug is corrected.

[FBPro]

Yes you can, just edit those games(delete them) and reschedule them later in the year.

[MJ4H]

Then does that really qualify as "rewritten from scratch"?


Yes. It is possible to do something from scratch many times, and make the same errors each time.

[Axxon]

Then does that really qualify as "rewritten from scratch"?
I mean, if I duplicate large chunks of a media plan from something I did last year, I wouldn't say that the new one is entirely "from scratch".

Well, by this line of reasoning you can't ever possibly rewrite any sports sims because a huge chunk of the project is based on the rules of the sport. I mean, he includes pitchers and hitters this year and he did the same last year so obviously he duplicated a large portion of his game so he didn't rewrite it from scratch.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well, by this line of reasoning you can't ever possibly rewrite any sports sims because a huge chunk of the project is based on the rules of the sport. I mean, he includes pitchers and hitters this year and he did the same last year so obviously he duplicated a large portion of his game so he didn't rewrite it from scratch.

Oh puh-leeze.

My question was actually more about
a)whether anybody believed the claim that the code was written from scratch and
b) whether repeating the same errors time & again qualified as "from scratch", if the "new" part of the equation amounted to re-typing the same error-riddled code.

The answer to both questions appears to be yes, so although I disagree with the answers, my question has indeed been answered.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Known bug, you can't play with lahman and minors by now. Take a look at ootp boards to see some alternatives until the bug is corrected.


Thanks, headin' over to the ootp boards now.

[Axxon]

Oh puh-leeze.

My question was actually more about
a)whether anybody believed the claim that the code was written from scratch and
b) whether repeating the same errors time & again qualified as "from scratch", if the "new" part of the equation amounted to re-typing the same error-riddled code.

The answer to both questions appears to be yes, so although I disagree with the answers, my question has indeed been answered.

The code can be written from scratch but the logic doesn't have to be. It seems that the errors are an error in logic not an error in code so your whole point makes no sense Jon.

[Galaril]

Oh puh-leeze.

My question was actually more about
a)whether anybody believed the claim that the code was written from scratch and
b) whether repeating the same errors time & again qualified as "from scratch", if the "new" part of the equation amounted to re-typing the same error-riddled code.

The answer to both questions appears to be yes, so although I disagree with the answers, my question has indeed been answered.


I have to for once agree with JIMG on basically, what he is saying.

[Buccaneer]

I guess Jon has never experienced object-oriented programming.

[Raven]

I have only read half this thread, but wanted to post what I found. This looks to be more poor AI decision making.

On 5/2, the Reds traded a 25 year old 3B name Joe Gomora to Tampa Bay. He was hitting .313/2/13 through 83 ABs, with an OPS of .817 with Cincy. Since then, In 181 ABs with Tampa Bay he has hit .287/13/29, with an OPS of .933.
His current batting ratings are 12/10/9/14/15, and his potentials are 12/11/9/18/16.

The guys he was traded for are a 22 year old 1B with no batting ratings above 10(current nor potential). Also included was a 36 year old SS whose currents are 9/10/12/11/11, and is a pretty decent fielder.

Both players Cincy received are playing at the R-level ball. The 36 year old SS was immediately sent to AAA when Cincy received him, without even getting a single at bat at the ML level. He had 122 ABs there where he hit .246/6/14. He then played one game in AA, and was sent to R-level as soon as the rookie league season began.

So basically they traded a fairly good/decent player for two players they had no need for. They then sent a 36 year old player to play in R-ball.

[Raven]

OK, I just simmed about two months of play so that I could get to my Rookie level team's Opening day. I played out the first game, pitch-by-pitch, scored 5 runs in the top of the 9th, to win 6-4, and when "leaving the game" it fucking crashed on me.

[TroyF]

I have only read half this thread, but wanted to post what I found. This looks to be more poor AI decision making.

On 5/2, the Reds traded a 25 year old 3B name Joe Gomora to Tampa Bay. He was hitting .313/2/13 through 83 ABs, with an OPS of .817 with Cincy. Since then, In 181 ABs with Tampa Bay he has hit .287/13/29, with an OPS of .933.
His current batting ratings are 12/10/9/14/15, and his potentials are 12/11/9/18/16.

The guys he was traded for are a 22 year old 1B with no batting ratings above 10(current nor potential). Also included was a 36 year old SS whose currents are 9/10/12/11/11, and is a pretty decent fielder.

Both players Cincy received are playing at the R-level ball. The 36 year old SS was immediately sent to AAA when Cincy received him, without even getting a single at bat at the ML level. He had 122 ABs there where he hit .246/6/14. He then played one game in AA, and was sent to R-level as soon as the rookie league season began.

So basically they traded a fairly good/decent player for two players they had no need for. They then sent a 36 year old player to play in R-ball.

What was the contract of the 25 year old 3B?

[GoSeahawks]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h250/nathan_hicks/Wheredidhego.jpg
This guy was on the way to a hall of fame career but dissapeared after the 2060 season. He reappeared in 2064. Where did he go?

[MizzouRah]

Sounds like the game isn't evaluating stats vs ratings?

[lynchjm24]

Why did he become a minor league free agent.


If you have gotten this far and haven't purchased - wait a few patches.

The AI is an absolute trainwreck. The game is just very flawed and it needs serious fixing.

[DanGarion]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h250/nathan_hicks/Wheredidhego.jpg
This guy was on the way to a hall of fame career but dissapeared after the 2060 season. He reappeared in 2064. Where did he go?
Maybe he went to war? :)

[GoSeahawks]

Maybe he went to war? :)
lol That's what I was thinking.

Has anyone else seen this type of thing?

[Raven]

What was the contract of the 25 year old 3B?


1 year, 1.75 mill

[st.cronin]

lol That's what I was thinking.

Has anyone else seen this type of thing?

I think he had a sore arm.

[TroyF]

1 year, 1.75 mill


Strange. I've seen the AI do bizzare things with high contract players. But guys making that? Not often. The AI bugs just keep getting deeper and deeper. Good luck Mr. Duffy, I don't see how you squash all of these.

[sovereignstar]

Here's a story I'm just jumping for joy about. Start a standard Cuban league and make a few tweaks so as to get desired statistical outputs. If you didn't know, Cuban baseball begins in November. In the league setup you have the option of turning trades on or off and when you want the trade deadline to be. For some reason there is a year dropdown for the trade deadline. I guess perhaps maybe you want the trade deadline to be in 2010 - maximum customization or whatever. Okay, that's fine, but the only year in the dropdown is 2006. You want to have a trade deadline in Cuba it can't be any later than 12/31/2006. I tried using 2/28/2006 to see what that would do, and sure enough the trade deadline had passed 9 months before the season had begun.

Went and simmed ahead anyways to look at the stats. Specifically, I simmed until the start of the playoffs, which began in mid-April. Oh yippie - there are leaderboards, but there are no sortable stats in the team roster or in the league's player statistics interface. Did another run and it turns out the stats all reset to zero once it turns over to 2007. Brilliant!

[lynchjm24]

I had to set my lineups for my 6.5 online league.

I just have one question:

Why did you guys fuck this game up so bad?

[ice4277]

Maybe he went to war? :)

He developed a rare debilitating injury that only began to be diagnosed in the mid-21st century. It was named after a couple of obscure players from six decades earlier.

Wood-Prior's Disease.

[BYU 14]

Here is an interesting AI glitch I ran across. Created a historical League for 1901 and added an independant 8 team Minor league (PCL) I did this just for the purpose of giving overflow players and those that were at the end of their Careers a place to play when they were unwanted by the Majors.

Well since it had no affiliation to any Major League teams, the PCL basically began operating as a second Major League, competing for Free Agents and actually getting a couple in their prime. On top of that, though the PCL kept a separate Almanac for their League (Only counting PCL Stats) the players from the Majors they signed also had their Stats continue to accumulate in the Major League Almanac as well.

Slightly annoying, but also kind of cool in that it gives me an idea for a different type of dynasty. Apart from the Stat issue it does mirror to a small degree the way some minor Leagues were back then. The PCL in particular could afford to pay salaries almost on par with the Majors for quite a while as they were the only game in town before the westward expansion of the 50's. Because of this quite a few good players chose to play our their careers in the PCL instead of going to the Majors as they could make equal, or greater, Money. So definitely a glitch, but a semi cool one....and I will probably turn it into a Dynasty time permitting.

[wbonnell]

Are people still griping about the user interface? I followed along with the game manual and was blown away by how flexible this thing is. As a software developer, I really appreciate its power; as a long time text sim fan, it does virtually anything I can dream (customizable views, filters, context sensitive menus, hyperlinking, bookmarks, etc).

Now, I'm sure certain "work flows" need to be optimized (ie scouting), but the UI framework in place is nothing short of awesome.

[Raven]

Alright, I just played out another game, and found more disturbing AI decision making - this time on the field.

It's 8-8, bottom of the 9th. 0 out, and I have runners on 1st and 3rd. My batters hits a ground ball down the line, the first basemen grabs it and throws the ball to second. The winning run scores, and the game is over.

[Marc Duffy]

OK, I just simmed about two months of play so that I could get to my Rookie level team's Opening day. I played out the first game, pitch-by-pitch, scored 5 runs in the top of the 9th, to win 6-4, and when "leaving the game" it fucking crashed on me.

:( Sorry to hear that.

This is fixed in patch1

[Marc Duffy]

Strange. I've seen the AI do bizzare things with high contract players. But guys making that? Not often. The AI bugs just keep getting deeper and deeper. Good luck Mr. Duffy, I don't see how you squash all of these.

We'll do our best! I dont think we'll ever get every bug though!

[sovereignstar]

Alright, I just played out another game, and found more disturbing AI decision making - this time on the field.

It's 8-8, bottom of the 9th. 0 out, and I have runners on 1st and 3rd. My batters hits a ground ball down the line, the first basemen grabs it and throws the ball to second. The winning run scores, and the game is over.

Did you post this one in their tech support forum?

[lynchjm24]

I followed along with the game manual and was blown away by how flexible this thing is.

Just as long as you don't actually try and play it, you should continue to be blown away.

[Toddzilla]

Just as long as you don't actually try and play it, you should continue to be blown away.No fair recycling comments from the Maximum Football thread!

[Raven]

Did you post this one in their tech support forum?

I tried, but didn't see an appropriate place to put it. The tech support didn't look like it was for bugs, but instead for crashes and hardware issues.

Instead, I PM'ed this to Marc Duffy, maybe he'll pass the info on.

[Bee]

I tried, but didn't see an appropriate place to put it. The tech support didn't look like it was for bugs, but instead for crashes and hardware issues.

Instead, I PM'ed this to Marc Duffy, maybe he'll pass the info on.

Tech support is for everything kind of lumped together.

[Marc Duffy]

Passed on, thanks

[MizzouRah]

I think it's safe to say it's going to be awhile before the game is stable or at least worthy of a demo looksie.

[SirFozzie]

I think it's safe to say it's going to be awhile before the game is stable or at least worthy of a demo looksie.

I don't..

It';s got bugs yes, all new games have bugs, especially first gen games (which this really is, Markus + SI's first version)

But it's remarkably bug free to me.

[sovereignstar]

Got a kick out of this one..

I ran into an odd bug (at least I assume its one) today. I left the game simming overnight when I went to bed, and it made it as far as 2009 when the Yankees apparently called up every single player from its AAA team. The game then stopped saying that 'Columbus has an insuffficient number of players on its active roster' or something similar.

Apparently, after a handful of players left due to free agency, the Yankees AI panicked and called up its entire AAA roster!

Needless to say, this is kind of inconvenient...

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm wondering if Skydog has checked this game out at all.

[Icy]

I'm wondering if Skydog has checked this game out at all.

Have wondered that myself too, he has always been pretty active in the ootp community.

[MizzouRah]

I don't..

It';s got bugs yes, all new games have bugs, especially first gen games (which this really is, Markus + SI's first version)

But it's remarkably bug free to me.

Are you telling me this game is playable to you? All the posts over at the ootp forums, all the bugs pointed out here and everything is hunky dory with you?

Well sir, you are only lucky man.

[Young Drachma]

Yeah, I've only encountered a few bugs and the ones I've encountered, I've been able to work around for the most part. It'll be nicer when the game is stable, but..at least I can play lots of seasons without the game not working at all. That's pretty much all I care about when something new comes out anyway, is being able to just mess around with it and get familiar.

At least these games have patches. Too bad the only patch that come with console games that cost more are "next year's version."

[FBPro]

Are you telling me this game is playable to you? All the posts over at the ootp forums, all the bugs pointed out here and everything is hunky dory with you?

Well sir, you are only lucky man.

There are a few issues but from what I've seen it isn't as bug ridden as some here seem to think. I'm enjoying it greatly.

[gstelmack]

At least these games have patches. Too bad the only patch that come with console games that cost more are "next year's version."

This is false, at least regarding the Xbox and the 360.

[Ryche]

I'm having fun with the game as well. Only had one crash so far last night....stupid thunder storm :) Wasn't so bad though, the half month I lost was pretty lowsy.

Yes, there's a lot to iron out, but I'm finding it playable and enjoyable. Maybe that will change the first time I really get screwed over by a bug.

[SirFozzie]

Are you telling me this game is playable to you? All the posts over at the ootp forums, all the bugs pointed out here and everything is hunky dory with you?

Well sir, you are only lucky man.

Thanks. Now back to my playoffs :)

[MrBug708]

My name is being used a lot in this thread :(

[sovereignstar]

More power to the guys that took the blue pill and can sim on. Me, I'm dedicating myself to FM for the summer.

[MizzouRah]

Well, at least there's hope!! :)

[SirFozzie]

Mainly I think we've been so conditioned to harp on every single bug out there that it's really poisoned folks toward any new games..

Is it super polished? heck no, but is it playable? Heck yeah.

[MrBug708]

More power to the guys that took the blue pill and can sim on. Me, I'm dedicating myself to FM for the summer.
Me too!

[Ryche]

I'm probably doing it very backwards, but FM will probably be the next text sim I try. Just don't know if I can make the leap to soccer. Maybe if I could take over an Irish club.

[TroyF]

Mainly I think we've been so conditioned to harp on every single bug out there that it's really poisoned folks toward any new games..

Is it super polished? heck no, but is it playable? Heck yeah.


Is it? I mean, I've thought long and hard about this the last couple of days as my enjoyment of the game went from fairly high to beyond frustrated.

You said in an earlier post "back to my series" That's interesting, because I too hit a series last night. Playoff series to be exact. And the opposing teams MR pitcher played 2 innings at SS to finish off one of game 2.

Am I being nitpicky by causing that type of bug to destroy my enjoyment of the game? Would it be better if I just pretended it never happened? Or how about when I look at roster moves like have been given examples of in this thread? Is it acceptable to be bothered by that or should I pretend that doesn't exist as well.

I mean, I can see IRL how Alex Rodriguez may finish his career with a year in A ball and 2 in AA. I suppose I should again, shut my eyes and repeat "it's a game, it's a game, it's a game"

I mean, complaining about these types of bugs is just being nitpicky afterall.

[JS19]

Being that this thread is 15 pages I'm not gonna read through it all so its probably been posted already. I havent been playing the game much at all bc of computer reasons but I noticed if I ask my manager to set lineups that he will not put the best players at all positions. This is just ine example but my All-Star 3B would be on the bench while some washed up guy takes the spot.

[MizzouRah]

Is it? I mean, I've thought long and hard about this the last couple of days as my enjoyment of the game went from fairly high to beyond frustrated.

You said in an earlier post "back to my series" That's interesting, because I too hit a series last night. Playoff series to be exact. And the opposing teams MR pitcher played 2 innings at SS to finish off one of game 2.

Am I being nitpicky by causing that type of bug to destroy my enjoyment of the game? Would it be better if I just pretended it never happened? Or how about when I look at roster moves like have been given examples of in this thread? Is it acceptable to be bothered by that or should I pretend that doesn't exist as well.

I mean, I can see IRL how Alex Rodriguez may finish his career with a year in A ball and 2 in AA. I suppose I should again, shut my eyes and repeat "it's a game, it's a game, it's a game"

I mean, complaining about these types of bugs is just being nitpicky afterall.

The voice of reason. I don't mind some goofyness, heck I'm still playing 6.5 like crazy, but some of the issues I'm reading downright make me scratch my head in disbelief.

We'll see what you all think after the patch is released tomorrow.

[spleen1015]

You said in an earlier post "back to my series" That's interesting, because I too hit a series last night. Playoff series to be exact. And the opposing teams MR pitcher played 2 innings at SS to finish off one of game 2.

Taking the risk of violating the NDA, I can confirm that this issue is fixed in the 1st patch.

[dervack]

Taking the risk of violating the NDA, I can confirm that this issue is fixed in the 1st patch.
You've simmed a hundred years and looked back at the almanac to confirm this? Or at least someone did?

[TroyF]

spleen,

I've tried to hold off on any serious nagativity about the game until the SECOND patch is released. If the first takes care of some of the major issues (this being one of them), I'm going to be thrilled.

The reason for that outburst was the comment of how people are unfairly harping on the game. I'm sorry, but people have every right to be upset about some of the bugs in the release version. People may have a tough time believing it, but I'm usually fairly easy on games. I'm not whining about questionable logic of the AI bunting in the 6th inning of game #45.

I'm complaining about legitimate issues. A majority of the people in this thread, especially by those of us who own the game are fair, legitimate gripes. We've also been fair to the game by not shredding it non stop. I don't want people in here acting as though our concerns aren't legitimate. Nor will I listen to someone say we are just harping on things that won't matter to the average FOFCer.

We aren't making this crap up. We are giving an honest assessment of what we see. To insinuate anything else is unfair.

[SunDevil]

And besides no one has done limmericks yet or made up songs or posted crazy pictures about this game yet, so it's not like this game is getting the MF treatment. :)


But Spleen, I was hoping that the beer tent made it into the first patch? :)

[Icy]

I bought it, played a couple of hours and i have it parked by now. I will play FM solo and OOTP6.5 online until most of the bugs are fixed. I must admit that the forums have influenced me a lot, i can't start any serious dynasty reading all the bugs at ootp forums as i don't want to get frustrated too soon and forget the game forever. I'll just let the time pass and will give it another chance after 2 patches, the game has potential for sure, now let's see how fast do the green bars become red.

[JonInMiddleGA]

... but is it playable? Heck yeah.

I don't know if "playable" is really the correct word for this situation.

Is it playable? Based on the various reports I'm reading here, yeah, the game by & large functions, it runs (more often than not), etc. In short, it is playable.

Perhaps a better word would be "enjoyable", or "pleasurable". That's where I believe this fails, there's simply no way in hell I could enjoy a game with the sort of bugs this one has shipped with. A problem that's compounded by how easily they were spotted. I mean, c'mon Fozzie, the HTML reports alone provided examples of some of the most egregious problems (the multi-position pitchers, the retirement age players in rookie ball). AFAIC, those are downright embarassing problems, and it boggles my mind that SI isn't embarassed by them being released to the world. And I mean that exactly, it is truly mind boggling to me that they don't seem to be embarassed by it, and it's almost equally mind-boggling to me that the criticism they've received for it hasn't been a hundredfold what I've seen here. I just can't fathom the acceptance of problems like that.

Clearly, YMMV, I'm cool with that. I'm a guy who'll say that he feels like he got his money's worth out of last year's version of Baseball Mogul, which is a decidedly minority opinion here. It most definitely had a number of flaws but I managed to find a way to wrest some enjoyment out of it, enough so that I feel like the purchase was a fair bargain. Point being, I'm fine with enjoying something that isn't universally acclaimed, I'm okay with you enjoying something I find laughable. (Hell, I don't think there's too many people here who would understand why I'm having such a blast with a recently released professional bull riding quick-play game for the tabletop, but I'm happy as a lark with it right now & would really like to shut down all other activity and just play it all day for a few weeks straight).

Anyhow, like I was saying, I'm okay with you and whoever enjoying the game, but damned if I can understand how you're able to suspend disbelief enough to enjoy pitchers in right field and A-Rod clones playing three years of minor league ball as they approach their 40th birthday.

[lynchjm24]

Yeah, I've only encountered a few bugs and the ones I've encountered, I've been able to work around for the most part. It'll be nicer when the game is stable, but..at least I can play lots of seasons without the game not working at all. That's pretty much all I care about when something new comes out anyway, is being able to just mess around with it and get familiar.



The AI makes it unplayable as a solo game right now. It's so bad, it's not even worth trying.

I was trying to do the same thing, but I got a feel for the UI and now I'll just wait until it's playable.

[SirFozzie]

That's because I have yet to get to A) Pitchers in RF, and B) The second problem is because I'm actually playing games and not auto simming a hundred years and then complaining about every issue found.

Edit: By the time I get there, it will be fixed (like the issue in B) about pitchers playing the field which is fixed in TOMMORROW'S patch.