Gotta love Democrats

[Blade6119]

Reid defends accepting free ringside tickets
Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid is broadly defending accepting free ringside boxing tickets from the Nevada Athletic Commission while the state agency was trying to influence him on federal boxing regulations.

The senior senator from Nevada is also defending several actions he took that benefited disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff's clients and partners as they donated to him.

Reid, a former boxer and boxing judge, said he feels he did nothing wrong.

An Associated Press report found Reid took free seats for three big Las Vegas fights between 2003 and 2005 -- as he was pressing legislation to increase government oversight of the sport.

One measure would have formed a federal boxing commission that might have usurped Nevada Athletic Commission authority.

Reid also had separate meetings in June 2003 in his Senate offices with two Abramoff tribal clients and a former staffer who went to work for Abramoff.

[sovereignstar]

gotta love generalization

[chinaski]

gotta love people who label an entire group because of the actions of one person.

[chinaski]

lol nice sov

[SirFozzie]

Yeah, they take the perks and then vote against the folks who try to bribe them (as Reid did in this case) Damn Democrats won't stay bribed, unlike Republicans.

[BrianD]

To be fair, it seems like we haven't had a political trolling attempt in a while. We were due.

[Fonzie]

The real news here is that Harry Reid was a boxer.

[chinaski]

The real news here is that Harry Reid was a boxer.

hah yes, that took me by surprise.

[Honolulu_Blue]

To be fair, it seems like we haven't had a political trolling attempt in a while. We were due.

Yeah, the last I remember was a few weeks (months?) back when PSUColonel had his meltdown.

[CamEdwards]

The real news here is that Harry Reid was a boxer.

Well, to be fair you could say that Horseshack and Screech were boxers as well.

[Raiders Army]

Damn, when was he a boxer? When it was bare-knuckle boxing?

[Huckleberry]

Wait, isn't the Associated Press part of the mainstream media? Why aren't they covering this up? Who didn't get the liberal bias memo?

[MalcPow]

The smoke here is that McCain was at the fight as well, and reimbursed $1400 for his seat, while Reid did not because, as he put it, it was his "home state." He defended his actions to his constituents on those grounds, and now he and his staff are backtracking because that defense does not follow within senate rules.

[Blade6119]

Wait, isn't the Associated Press part of the mainstream media? Why aren't they covering this up? Who didn't get the liberal bias memo?
ESPN.com's boxing section...say it when i was reading there

[Butter]

Gotta love former mods who need some way to vent.

[Toddzilla]

The smoke here is that McCain was at the fight as well, and reimbursed $1400 for his seat, while Reid did not because, as he put it, it was his "home state." He defended his actions to his constituents on those grounds, and now he and his staff are backtracking because that defense does not follow within senate rules.IIRC, it is expressly *permitted* in the Senate Ethics Rules - there is an exception for gifts from governmental agencies like the Nevada Athletic Commission.

[Blade6119]

Gotta love former mods who need some way to vent.
Im happy to get in a fight over this is you want to keep being an ass...your comments speak enough about your personal character, and since you think so little of me ill be happy to come down to your level and play if you want.

[SirFozzie]

Yeah, I may have been upset that Blade was made a mod, but this is no worse then a lot of the other political threads that have gone around, constantly bring up former mod etcetera is a cheap shot. (and if I crossed that line with my first line in this post, sorry blade, I meant it more to defend you)

[Blade6119]

Yeah, I may have been upset that Blade was made a mod, but this is no worse then a lot of the other political threads that have gone around, constantly bring up former mod etcetera is a cheap shot. (and if I crossed that line with my first line in this post, sorry blade, I meant it more to defend you)
I have no problems with your comments or even the other disregarding my views. But butter made it personal, and i dont respond well to comments like that.

[MalcPow]

IIRC, it is expressly *permitted* in the Senate Ethics Rules - there is an exception for gifts from governmental agencies like the Nevada Athletic Commission.

Accepting gifts from a party that is going to be impacted by legislation you're working on, and has a strong motivation to influence you, is a no-no. It's basically the spirit of these ethics laws. I think Reid is fine legally, but he is backtracking fast from his comments earlier this week that he would continue to accept these gifts all the time (now he says he won't accept anything that might imply a conflict).

[sovereignstar]

I have no problems with your comments or even the other disregarding my views. But butter made it personal, and i dont respond well to comments like that.

You make the bed you sleep in, douchebag.

[larrymcg421]

There is no smoke. The commission is not allowed to take money for these seats. McCain insisted and they gave his money to charity.

[MalcPow]

There is no smoke. The commission is not allowed to take money for these seats. McCain insisted and they gave his money to charity.

Not to get too much into this (as I don't really feel strongly about this at all) but senators aren't allowed to accept gifts from groups that have vested interests in legislation they're working on.

[Blade6119]

You make the bed you sleep in, douchebag.
And people want to call me the troll here...im stunned sometimes at how classless FOFC has become...

[John Galt]

And people want to call me the troll here...im stunned sometimes at how classless FOFC has become...

No offense Blade6199, but you are hardly the paragon of class.

[albionmoonlight]

Wow, this thread isn't ending well?

I thought for sure that it would when I read the title.

Color me shocked.

[stevew]

Vote Blade6119

[rkmsuf]

gotta love boxing giving fofc a black eye

[Raiders Army]

gotta love boxing giving fofc a black eye
better than an erect penis I always say...

[rkmsuf]

better than an erect penis I always say...

harry reid was often erect while boxing

[stevew]

unvote Blade8675309

Vote rkmsuf

[Blade6119]

No offense Blade6199, but you are hardly the paragon of class.
I dont claim to be, but i did not make this personal in any way. It is the colorful FOFC membership who took that step...

[NoMyths]

And people want to call me the troll here...im stunned sometimes at how classless FOFC has become...
"Gotta love Democrats" is classy?

[Flasch186]

I believe I called this one in another thread wherein I was hammered by lefties as simply pandering to the right to earn some sort of credibility. Man when that other shoe drops you gotta move quick like, cat like I say, like A cheetah!! Woo Zoom zow!! im over here now, standing in the "I was right" corner. There I go, zip, over here!!

ignore me

[Blade6119]

"Gotta love Democrats" is classy?
Not at all, but i didnt personally attack anyone. Like i said, im not claiming to be a pedestal of class, but im not calling you a douche and taking potshots at your personaly history

[John Galt]

I dont claim to be, but i did not make this personal in any way. It is the colorful FOFC membership who took that step...

I just think that someone shouldn't lament how "classless FOFC has become" in a thread they started titled "Gotta love Democrats." But maybe that's just me.

edit: apparently, it is not "just me" as I was a little slow to reply.

[Flasch186]

I just think that someone shouldn't lament how "classless FOFC has become" in a thread they started titled "Gotta love Democrats." But maybe that's just me.

coulda been me today, im awfully fast. I coulda typed it, and hid thereafter....you dont know. Its crazy the quickness Im feelin' today, like a african swallow fast.

[st.cronin]

Ah, to be alive during FOFC's golden age.

[duckman]

I believe I called this one in another thread wherein I was hammered by lefties as simply pandering to the right to earn some sort of credibility. Man when that other shoe drops you gotta move quick like, cat like I say, like A cheetah!! Woo Zoom zow!! im over here now, standing in the "I was right" corner. There I go, zip, over here!!

ignore me

EDITED: Picture reported as NSFW.

[Toddzilla]

Well, to be fair you could say that Horseshack and Screech were boxers as well.I missed this amidst all the trolling. Well played, indeed.

[Toddzilla]

http://www-jcsu.jesus.cam.ac.uk/~rah56/images/handy/images/attention.jpg

[rkmsuf]

unvote Blade8675309

Vote rkmsuf

there's no unvoting in werewolf

[Flasch186]

EDIT: Image NSFW

Listen troll

I would like to be able to make jokes and stuff if at all possible without having you troll about in your boat looking to stir up shit where none is necessary. Please chill the fuck out. I would like to be able to participate AND ENJOY coming here and Im sure the moderators would agree.

Thanks.

edit: making a thread NSFW is awesome to.

[duckman]

http://www.strangezoo.com/images/content/106685.jpg

[wade moore]

I just think that someone shouldn't lament how "classless FOFC has become" in a thread they started titled "Gotta love Democrats." But maybe that's just me.

I thought it was pretty funny too.

[rkmsuf]

http://www.strangezoo.com/images/content/106685.jpg

LOL

[KWhit]

I never would have guessed that this thread would end up this way.

[stevew]

http://www-jcsu.jesus.cam.ac.uk/~rah56/images/handy/images/attention.jpg

That's pretty funny.

[rkmsuf]

That's pretty funny.

Resembles a Harry Reid fight.

[duckman]

http://www.strangepersons.com/images/content/9057.jpg

[sabotai]

According to boxrec.com, Harry Reid had 1 fight. It was a light welterweight fight in 1992 and he was KOed in the 2nd round.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

In before lock/deletion. :D

[Flasch186]

PM sent

[duckman]

PM sent

PM deleted

[st.cronin]

duckman, you're just being an ass, grow up

[stevew]

Pm...s

[duckman]

duckman, you're just being an ass, grow up

Tom Brady has smelly feet.

[Raiders Army]

Tom Brady has smelly feet.
I guess he's not drunk enough to forget about the st. cronin-Tom Brady connection.

[duckman]

duckman, you're just being an ass, grow up
http://bluecollarmtb.com/images/jackass.jpg

[larrymcg421]

Not to get too much into this (as I don't really feel strongly about this at all) but senators aren't allowed to accept gifts from groups that have vested interests in legislation they're working on.

That's not true, as has been shown before. You're correct in arguing that it's against the spirit of these laws and probably why he said he wouldn't accept any more gifts of this nature.

Still, it is worth noting that he voted against the interests of the group that gave him the gifts.

[MalcPow]

That's not true, as has been shown before. You're correct in arguing that it's against the spirit of these laws and probably why he said he wouldn't accept any more gifts of this nature.

Still, it is worth noting that he voted against the interests of the group that gave him the gifts.

If the giver is potentially attempting to influence official action the gift is not permissible. There's also more than one way to kill a bill, although he voted against it, he did force an amendment to the bill and it subsequently failed in the House. These are both pieces of truths that don't necessarily add up to anything nefarious, but Reid should've handled things better. At this point I think his only recourse is to dress up as a watermelon with an erection... :D

[JW]

Well, for the record, a recent ABC poll says more Americans think Democratic congressmen are honest than think Republican congressmen are honest.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollVault/story?id=2025343&page=1

Politically, the Democrats have a small edge in perceived honesty, but there's not much advantage for either party on this issue. Sixteen percent of Americans think Democrats are generally more ethical and honest than Republicans; nine percent think the opposite. But most by far — 72 percent — say there isn't much difference between them.

But I guess this isn't really good news for anyone. Maybe Democratic candidates can run this fall using the slogan:

WE'RE A LITTLE LESS CORRUPT THAN THE OTHER GUYS!

And fwiw, I thought the subject line was kind of funny and that people who got offended have probably had too much mandated sensitivity training. However, it did create the conditions for another wonderful FOFC hissy fight.

[SunDevil]

Just for your reading pleasure.

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/000797.php#more

[Flasch186]

I wonder what a well funded 3rd party with no hurdles in front of it would do in the upcoming election.

[wade moore]

I wonder what a well funded 3rd party with no hurdles in front of it would do in the upcoming election.

Were you listening to Penn Jillette today?

[Flasch186]

Were you listening to Penn Jillette today?

unfortuantely no, i dont even know who that is.

[stevew]

I wonder what a well funded 3rd party with no hurdles in front of it would do in the upcoming election.
Siphon votes would be my guess.

[wade moore]

unfortuantely no, i dont even know who that is.

You do, you just don't realize it ;)...

He's the Penn half of Penn and Teller...

Anyway, he has a radio show, and had the creator of West Wing on and they were discussing this question, that's why I asked.. (FWIW, they think it's possible for a billionaire to do it)...

[King of New York]

Not to threadjack, although if ever a thread deserved to be jacked, this one would be it :) ...

Seriously, periodically throughout the nineteenth century, the existing US political party system would collapse and a new one would emerge. Doesn't the time seem right for something like that to happen now? Both the Republican and the Democratic parties have outlived whatever usefulness they might have once served, at least as they are presently configured.

Third parties have a bad rep because they have either been based on cults of personality (Perot) or have emerged at one end or the other of the political spectrum (socialist, Green.)

But what if the Gang of Fourteen in the senate decided to establish the foundations for a new centrist party? Because they are all established politicians, they could probably start to attract corporate and individual donors in sufficient numbers to put together a real party structure.

[Glengoyne]

Hey, the last time a Dem started this thread it was titled something like Fuck Fuck the fucking Republicans. By that measure Blade wins the class contest by a good measure.

[MalcPow]

Just for your reading pleasure.

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/000797.php#more

Yeah the problem with this is that the Senate ethics rules that apply to this situation regard a gift as within the standards of "a thing of value." Calling the seats credentials and not tickets, and saying there is no cost, doesn't really mean that the ringside seats had no value. I have heard secondhand that Reid tried to dismiss his acceptance of the seats as under the purview of performing his normal "official duties" which is pitifully weak. I agree that this is just partisan nose-tweaking ultimately, but Reid handled and is handling this poorly.

As far as a third party, it's really tough to do with our electoral system. The way things are set up now it's more likely that another party emerges that destroys a current party than the existence of three largely equal parties. A presidential election with three legitimate candidates all capable of winning states is not something that is likely to resolve itself in any orderly or familiar way.

[John Galt]

Hey, the last time a Dem started this thread it was titled something like Fuck Fuck the fucking Republicans. By that measure Blade wins the class contest by a good measure.

If there was ever a post that deserved this, this is it: :rolleyes:

[NoMyths]

Hey, the last time a Dem started this thread it was titled something like Fuck Fuck the fucking Republicans. By that measure Blade wins the class contest by a good measure.
You are flat-out lying. Begone, troll.

[Toddzilla]

Yeah the problem with this is that the Senate ethics rules that apply to this situation regard a gift as within the standards of "a thing of value." Calling the seats credentials and not tickets, and saying there is no cost, doesn't really mean that the ringside seats had no value. I have heard secondhand that Reid tried to dismiss his acceptance of the seats as under the purview of performing his normal "official duties" which is pitifully weak. I agree that this is just partisan nose-tweaking ultimately, but Reid handled and is handling this poorly.

As far as a third party, it's really tough to do with our electoral system. The way things are set up now it's more likely that another party emerges that destroys a current party than the existence of three largely equal parties. A presidential election with three legitimate candidates all capable of winning states is not something that is likely to resolve itself in any orderly or familiar way.
I see you're from DC - what a better opportunity to discuss this issue over some beer and *free* appetizers than at the FOFC Happy Hour, Friday June 16th at 6PM at TGIFridays in Springfield, VA, next to the Franconia Metro.

/end threadjack

[stevew]

Gotta love werewolf.

[John Galt]

You are flat-out lying. Begone, troll.

The sad thing is that I think Glen doesn't think he is lying. He probably remembers the thread title being that way.

[stevew]

I think it was something like "Fuck those Fucking Fucks." About school lunches or something.

[wade moore]

I see you're from DC - what a better opportunity to discuss this issue over some beer and *free* appetizers than at the FOFC Happy Hour, Friday June 16th at 6PM at TGIFridays in Springfield, VA, next to the Franconia Metro.

/end threadjack

This amused me greatly.

[sovereignstar]

I'll never understand why politics are so black and white to some people.

[John Galt]

I think it was something like "Fuck those Fucking Fucks." About school lunches or something.

I just used the forum search and couldn't find anything resembling that thread title.

[stevew]

I just used the forum search and couldn't find anything resembling that thread title.
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=44217&highlight=%22Fuck+fucking+fucks%22

[MalcPow]

I see you're from DC - what a better opportunity to discuss this issue over some beer and *free* appetizers than at the FOFC Happy Hour, Friday June 16th at 6PM at TGIFridays in Springfield, VA, next to the Franconia Metro.

/end threadjack

I feel like I just got hit on in a political thread... :D

I'm usually still in the office at 6, and Franconia is a haul for me, but I'll see how things shape up. Thanks for the invite.

[stevew]

Dola, it wasn't actually called fuck the fucking fucks though, obviously.

[John Galt]

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=44217&highlight=%22Fuck+fucking+fucks%22

I see - it was not actually the thread title (I did a title search). The thread doesn't have anything to do with this thread, though, unless I'm missing something. And not to mention that it was by a banned user (although it was not the thread that got him banned). Strangely, Glengoyne replies in that thread with "Jesse is actually one of the reasons I'm embarrased to be a Democrat. Then again, I have my own list of reasons of why I'm reluctant to join the Republican party." Maybe he was being self-referential in discussing classless Democrats. ;)

[Glengoyne]

I see - it was not actually the thread title (I did a title search). The thread doesn't have anything to do with this thread, though, unless I'm missing something. And not to mention that it was by a banned user (although it was not the thread that got him banned). Strangely, Glengoyne replies in that thread with "Jesse is actually one of the reasons I'm embarrased to be a Democrat. Then again, I have my own list of reasons of why I'm reluctant to join the Republican party." Maybe he was being self-referential in discussing classless Democrats. ;)
In my memory that was the thread title. Mark it on your Calendar, I was wrong today;).

:D /Duck/

In any case. I wasn't trying to imply that Democrats lacked class...just that Blade had approached titling his thread in a much more respectful manner. I guess since I was wrong about the thread title, there really isn't much to that point. Oh Well, Carry on.

[John Galt]

In my memory that was the thread title. Mark it on your Calendar, I was wrong today;).

:Duck:

In any case. I wasn't trying to imply that Democrats lacked class...just that Blade had approached titling his thread in a much more respectful manner. I guess since I was wrong about the thread title, there really isn't much to that point. Oh Well, Carry on.

Fair enough. I don't think either thread title was particularly classy (not that I'm a final judge on that). I just noted the irony of Blade complaining about the growing classlessness at FOFC in the classless thread he started.

[stevew]

definately a fruit from the poisoned tree thing.

[Flasch186]

You do, you just don't realize it ;)...

He's the Penn half of Penn and Teller...

Anyway, he has a radio show, and had the creator of West Wing on and they were discussing this question, that's why I asked.. (FWIW, they think it's possible for a billionaire to do it)...

is he the silent one or talking one...it'd be kinda neat if the silent one talked like a madman on the radio :)

[wade moore]

is he the silent one or talking one...it'd be kinda neat if the silent one talked like a madman on the radio :)

Hah, it's the talking one (the taller, heavier guy)...

The show is actually a lot better than I thought it would be.. he comes from an interesting viewpoinit as an open Atheist and has some interesting political views... and he's essentially a life-long carny which brings interesting viewpoints..

[sabotai]

The only times I've seen Teller talk have been on the History Channel. Sometimes I'll catch their program on Houdini (he talked in that one, but was in the dark, so you couldn't really see him.). And then there was another program where I'm pretty sure he talked, normal settings, but I forget what that was specifically about.

[WVUFAN]

I have nothing important to add to this thread. Just wanted to say "Howdy!"

[stevew]

What is Sportsdigs?

[WVUFAN]

What is Sportsdigs?

Indeed!

[sabotai]

What is Sportsdigs?

I heard it was some sort of performance enhancing drug.

[Buccaneer]

You guys know what Reid did way back when? Remember that corrupt Gaming Board chairman that wouldn't give Lefty a fair hearing in the book/movie Casino?

[Chief Rum]

harry reid was often erect while boxing

Well, yeah, because if an erect penis gave you a black eye, well, damn, I don't know where to start with the problems there.

[Havok]

Gotta love Democrats

no i don't... and you can't make me.

[MrBigglesworth]

I believe I called this one in another thread wherein I was hammered by lefties as simply pandering to the right to earn some sort of credibility. Man when that other shoe drops you gotta move quick like, cat like I say, like A cheetah!! Woo Zoom zow!! im over here now, standing in the "I was right" corner. There I go, zip, over here!!

ignore me
This is sarcastic, right? I mean, you can't be crowing as an example of corruption Reid following Senate guidelines and voting against the interests of the boxing commission. This is a quid with no quo. It's kind of embaressing for you if this post is serious.

How about this: the GOP is in charge of pretty much everything right now. I will bet you whatever you want that Reid is not convicted of anything having to do with these tickets. Money, sig bet, whatever. I'll even give you 5-1 odds. That's how crazy this post is of yours.

I mean really, this is your logical process:

1) Reid accepts free tickets to a boxing match
2) Reid votes against those that gave him the tickets

Conclusion:
1) Reid was bribed by the ticket givers to vote against them!

That's just silly.

[MrBigglesworth]

You guys know what Reid did way back when? Remember that corrupt Gaming Board chairman that wouldn't give Lefty a fair hearing in the book/movie Casino?
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050808fa_fact
In 1977, O’Callaghan appointed him to the chairmanship of the Nevada Gaming Commission, which oversees casinos, and that was an experience that made his other work look easy. Before Reid took the job, O’Callaghan introduced him to the outgoing chairman, Peter Echeverria. “Pete was telling us, ‘I’ve had people out here watching me, these gangsters,’ and he said, ‘I think they’ve tapped my phone,’ ” Reid recalled. “I thought he was making all this stuff up. It just didn’t make sense. I had no concept of the Mob. It meant nothing to me.” There had been a decrease in Mob activity, but organized crime was again investing in Las Vegas, and for four years Reid confronted wiseguys like Tony (the Ant) Spilotro, who had been sent to Las Vegas by a Chicago branch of La Cosa Nostra, “the Outfit,” and was known for killing his victims by squeezing their heads in a vise. In 1979, Reid barred Spilotro from all casinos.

In July of 1978, a man named Jack Gordon, who was later married to LaToya Jackson, offered Reid twelve thousand dollars to approve two new, carnival-like gaming devices for casino use. Reid reported the attempted bribe to the F.B.I. and arranged a meeting with Gordon in his office. By agreement, F.B.I. agents burst in to arrest Gordon at the point where Reid asked, “Is this the money?” Although he was taking part in a sting, Reid was unable to control his temper; the videotape shows him getting up from his chair and saying, “You son of a bitch, you tried to bribe me!” and attempting to choke Gordon, before startled agents pulled him off. “I was so angry with him for thinking he could bribe me,” Reid said, explaining his theatrical outburst. Gordon was convicted in federal court in 1979 and sentenced to six months in prison.
Flasch, any comment?

[Flasch186]

This is sarcastic, right? I mean, you can't be crowing as an example of corruption Reid following Senate guidelines and voting against the interests of the boxing commission. This is a quid with no quo. It's kind of embaressing for you if this post is serious.

How about this: the GOP is in charge of pretty much everything right now. I will bet you whatever you want that Reid is not convicted of anything having to do with these tickets. Money, sig bet, whatever. I'll even give you 5-1 odds. That's how crazy this post is of yours.

I mean really, this is your logical process:

1) Reid accepts free tickets to a boxing match
2) Reid votes against those that gave him the tickets

Conclusion:
1) Reid was bribed by the ticket givers to vote against them!

That's just silly.


First off I was joking, although I was talking about the forboding shadows. I was NOT making light of the fact that I still think I was and am right about Harry Reid and his relationship with lobbyists including Abramoff's group.

Secondly, As ive said before, I do NOT need a conviction to know when something is wrong. I know when something is wrong, in my opinion, when the right does it, even if there isnt a conviction (there are many things that you and I shouldnt do even if it isnt specifically against the law), and I know when something is wrong, in my opinion, when the left does it. He shouldnt have taken the tix.

Thirdly, accepting gifts does not have anything to do with the resulting actions by the politician...Effect is not defined by whether or not the cause was wrong.

[ice4277]

This thread is now officially complete.

[Flasch186]

This thread is now officially complete.

at least its back on topic. :)