Baseball Etiquette

[Young Drachma]

So....apparently Lastings Milledge broke one of the hollowed un-written rules of baseball the other day in NYC? (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060604&content_id=1488726&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)


In the 10th inning, after the Mets went down by two runs, Jose Valentin hit a one-out solo home run off Giants closer Armando Benitez. With two out and facing one of the hardest-throwing pitchers in the game, Milledge turned on a 1-2 fastball and drove the pitch from Benitez 390 feet to left. The first career home run by the kid tied the game, 6-6, and sent the crowd into a frenzy.

With Cliff Floyd at bat and the crowd in screaming fits, Milledge stepped out of the dugout, tipped his hat and acknowledged the crowd.

But after Floyd struck out to end the inning, Milledge continued his recognition.

Running out to his position in right, Milledge jogged along the same right-field line where he had earlier made his catch and slapped hands with every fan along the railing. The crowd went wild again while Mets reliever Pedro Feliciano warmed up for the 11th inning.

But in baseball, according to his teammates and his manager, once Milledge did that, he crossed that fine line of respect.

"It's kind of cool to do that if he'd won the game and the game happened to be the World Series, but, hey, he got caught up in the moment," said Floyd, whose locker sits a few feet away from Milledge's. "He's got to know that and we'll help him with that, where consequences could be paid for things like that.

"This is a team sport, and it can happen to him or someone else on the team where later on, you might be thrown at for doing stuff like that. But every player coming up wants to do that. I know I did. But I had teammates who helped me know right from wrong."


I love the game. But Lord knows, its so stupid with all its idiotic unwritten rules and crap.

[SackAttack]

It's the whole bit about "don't show up the other guys."

I was talking to Vince last night, and he and I agreed - there are scenarios under which we would have a problem with that, but running out to his position, still exuberant over the conditions under which he hit his first big league homer....give the kid a damn break.

If he goes nutso futso while his team is still at-bat and starts running around exchanging skin, fine. What he actually did seems pretty harmless, though.

And I know that's in agreement, at least to one degree or another, with what you're saying. I'm just articulating my own thoughts on the matter.

[MikeVic]

So you're not supposed to slap hands with the fans?? I'd like to see more of that, not less.

[SackAttack]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I bet he made some 8-year-old kid's day. How is that a bad thing?

[Samdari]

I found the comment this morning on Mike and Mike that baseball is more concerned about enforcing its unwritten rules than its written ones to be both funny and accurate.

[Joe]

I'm surprised baseball has any rules, unwritten or otherwise.

[Young Drachma]

And I know that's in agreement, at least to one degree or another, with what you're saying. I'm just articulating my own thoughts on the matter.

Yeah, I was curious what other people thought about it, because I didn't think it was that big a deal. He's a rookie, he's highly touted and he came up in a clutch situation.

I'm with you on this one, seeing what he didn't look anything like him showing up the other team. He wasn't even smiling when he high fived all those people on his way to the outfield.

[MalcPow]

I have to side with the "unwritten" folks, there's still a game going on (and the Mets ended up losing it). Act like you've been there before.

[Lathum]

I say give the kid a break. I put this right up there with the "sandman contoversy" as stupid non stories.

[rkmsuf]

they should shove most of these unwritten rules up cliff floyd's ass.

I really get annoyed when people start treating baseball like this hallowed ground. Half of these guys are total asshats to begin with.

Cliff Floyd, please. Just say the kid made a great play and move on. Don't go all holier than thou on us.

[Lathum]

I have to side with the "unwritten" folks, there's still a game going on (and the Mets ended up losing it). Act like you've been there before.
what if he hasn't?

[st.cronin]

No big deal, to me. Isn't Milledge the guy that had a 14 year old girlfriend or something?

[McSweeny]

I have to side with the "unwritten" folks, there's still a game going on (and the Mets ended up losing it). Act like you've been there before.

yep

[MalcPow]

what if he hasn't?

Maybe take a peek or two at the people who have and see how they act ? :)

Seriously, I'm not saying drill the dude or villify him, but taking a curtain call and working the crowd after your teammate just struck out and the game is still going on is silly. I guess I'd just rather a guy tip his hat and wait until after the game to make some eight year old's day.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Admittedly not a baseball, but...

I don't understand why is was considered bad form for the Phillies pitcher (name escaping me right now) for calling out Bonds. But, this was such a terrible display?

Or is there not an unwritten rule about cheating and blowing your head up to 8 times it's normal size?

[albionmoonlight]

I'm not an expert on "unwritten rules," but there seems to big a big difference between giving fans high fives and a chest-thumping "look at me" style celebration a'la the NBA. Part of what he is doing there is giving people a reason to spend $150 bucks to come to the game. You don't really want to discourage that behavior.

Also, does it make sense to discuss decorum ever since the plan was announced to put SpiderMan 2 logos on all the bases?

[sabotai]

I wonder what they would have done if, after crossing home plate, he took out a Sharpie and signed the bat that he used. Or maybe put the bat on the ground and pretended to give it CPR. Or maybe do a bit of a river dance....

[rkmsuf]

I wonder what they would have done if, after crossing home plate, he took out a Sharpie and signed the bat that he used. Or maybe put the bat on the ground and pretended to give it CPR. Or maybe do a bit of a river dance....

Purists across the country would have required CPR.

[Joe]

No big deal, to me. Isn't Milledge the guy that had a 14 year old girlfriend or something?

No, I think that's Shorty.

[molson]

It's not like he's getting suspended or anything - Floyd just make a comment to a reporter. The "give the kid a break" crowd shouldn't really be too concerned.

[Franklinnoble]

Purists across the country would have required CPR.

Joe Buck's head would have exploded.

[sabotai]

Joe Buck's head would have exploded.

Hmm. Might be worth him doing it then. :D

[terpkristin]

I agreed 100% with Mike and Mike this morning.
The unwritten laws are absolutely ridiculous. They mentiond this example, where the kid was exuberant and energetic, and frankly, that's what baseball needs right now. He wasn't "showing up" his competitors or trying to rub it in, he was just stoked...as well he should have been! He made some fans quite happy and did nothing that I think detracted from the spirit of the game.

The other "unwritten rule" in baseball that was broken this weekend was that the O's player stole two bases in the 7th or 8th inning vs. the Yankees, when the O's were up by 6 or 7 runs. On this, I also agreed with M&M, that this is the YANKEES we're talking about, we've seen them score 6+ runs in the 9th to come back and win the game...also, if the unwritten rule is that the leading team is supposed to take it easy, does that mean that the trailing team should also do that? Talk about ruining the spirit of the game. This was not a case of the O's trying to "run up the score," this was a case of the O's trying to maintain their lead vs. a team that has demonstrated it can come back...

Stupid stupid stupid. This is (one of the many) reason(s) that fans get disgusted with baseball, ESPECIALLY the first case. One of the things MLB needs right now is excitement and exuberance from its players, a willingness to come out and "be real" with the fans (not the forced autograph sesssions they tried to impose a few years back).

/tk

[JimboJ]

Why are baseball players so damn sensitive anyway? Is there something inherent in the sport that makes it such a crime to "show up" the other team?

[Young Drachma]

Why are baseball players so damn sensitive anyway? Is there something inherent in the sport that makes it such a crime to "show up" the other team?

I wondered that too.

[Axxon]

Admittedly not a baseball, but...



Admittedly I know it was only a typo but thank you for giving me a zenlike moment. I quite enjoyed it. :)

[clintl]

I don't really have a problem with what Milledge did, BUT:

Every sport, every corporation, every industry, in fact every organized human endeavor has its customs and unwritten rules of etiquette. To single out and criticize baseball for its particular sportsmanship customs is absurd.

[Logan]

A few comments from a Mets fan (who was at the game):

Great points made by many people, along the lines of: "There would have been less controversy if he stood in the batter's box and admired his HR, did a cartwheel on his way back to the dugout, signed an autograph, shaked pompoms, etc." It's absolutely ridiculous that anyone had an issue with any of this.

For the "he did this while a game was going on" crowd...he did it in-between innings, when no one had to be watching him. He didn't hit the HR, start high-fiving his teammates, and then continue down the line to greet the fans. Lighten the fuck up.

Lastings is a 21-year old, African American baseball player who happens to have the potential to be a stud. Count the number of these great black players in the majors now, then count the number of potential top prospects who fit his description. Subtract from that amount the number of top prospects who do shit like THROW A BAT AT AN UMPIRE. Then realize how important the success of someone like Milledge means to baseball.

Milledge is already loved by the fans, who have basically given him a standing ovation for every at bat and defensive play he's been involved in. He gets a standing ovation when he runs out to field his position. This was his way of saying thanks. Again, lighten the fuck up people.

Again, from a Mets fan...screw Cliff Floyd. It can be the job of the manager to speak to the media about a player's (possible) lack of professionalism, but who the hell appointed you to be the one who can speak out and talk shit about your teammate? Yes you may have phrased it in such a way that you're just looking out for him, but I don't care. To me, that shouldn't be done. Unless, you know, you're scared since the kid is going to be taking your job next year.

[Axxon]

To single out and criticize baseball for its particular sportsmanship customs is absurd.

I agree 100% but to criticize one of the customs in particular seems fair.

[clintl]

Again, from a Mets fan...screw Cliff Floyd. It can be the job of the manager to speak to the media about a player's (possible) lack of professionalism, but who the hell appointed you to be the one who can speak out and talk shit about your teammate? Yes you may have phrased it in such a way that you're just looking out for him, but I don't care. To me, that shouldn't be done. Unless, you know, you're scared since the kid is going to be taking your job next year.

I meant to say something about this, too. Floyd is probably more guilty than Milledge because he broke the etiquette rule of keeping issues like this in the clubhouse.

[MrBug708]

When did people start caring what Floyd thinks?

[Axxon]

When did people start caring what Floyd thinks?

Well, his dad Pink always has. I hear he's into riding the gravy train. :)

[Travis]

Well, baseball as a collective can quit bringing up this crap because they've taken the unwritten rules out of the game on their own. How many guys don't watch their home runs get over the fence anymore? When's the last time a pitcher could throw inside on a hitter without fear of a warning or an immediate toss from the game? When's the last time it would have mattered to throw inside with the amount of armor worn to the plate? When's the last time you actually saw an umpire not give a batter first base for not making an effort to get out of the way of the pitch (or did they go so far as to change the rule so that it doesn't matter anymore?).

The unwritten rules used to make baseball what it was, now they're looked at as a bad joke when they're brought up because they can't survive in the glorified home run derby that is MLB. A 6+ run inning isn't uncommon anymore, so why not take the extra base.

It's the sport I grew up loving, and the professional league that I've grown into disliking. The unwritten rules are done and gone, and the only time they'll get brought up is as a defense for those ticked off about something. There are still a few players that are fun (in my opinion) to watch, and I'm happy the Jays have a few of them so I can watch a few games here and there.

[Axxon]

When's the last time it would have mattered to throw inside with the amount of armor worn to the plate?

On a tangent I'll admit but why is armor a bad thing? I read an article in SI that criticized this.

I am no longer a baseball follower but I am a fan of the history of the sport. I will always admire Baylor taking one for the team but since you shouldn't hit the batter, doesn't armor simply make it safer to defend yourself from these shots? Should you have to face injury to avoid a too far inside pitch or are players contorting themselves to take hits that are legit strikes?

[st.cronin]

A real man wouldn't even wear a cup.

[Logan]

or are players contorting themselves to take hits that are legit strikes?

I think that's more the point. You see a lot of players dropping their elbow down to get hit by pitches.

[Axxon]

I think that's more the point. You see a lot of players dropping their elbow down to get hit by pitches.

OK, then I'm against the armor. That's not cool at all.

[lcjjdnh]

Few thoughts on the issue:

1) According to one of the Daily News' columnist part of the reason the brought Milledge up is to knock him down a peg or two. Apparently, during spring training, he would routinely show up late, act like a superstar, etc. So, I could see why his teammates would be pissed with it, since they were pissed with his showboating already.

2) Floyd is kind of a mentor to many of the young players. Management relies on Floyd to keep them in check. For instance, he used to make David Wright carry his suitcases and stuff, and, in return, he bought him suits. So although Cliff may come off like a jerk, I'm pretty sure management is okay with him doing it, because they want him to keep the youngsters under control.

[st.cronin]

Few thoughts on the issue:

1) According to one of the Daily News' columnist part of the reason the brought Milledge up is to knock him down a peg or two. Apparently, during spring training, he would routinely show up late, act like a superstar, etc. So, I could see why his teammates would be pissed with it, since they were pissed with his showboating already.

That makes no sense. Punish him by making him a major leaguer? Were they hoping he would hit .063?

[Logan]

2) Floyd is kind of a mentor to many of the young players. Management relies on Floyd to keep them in check. For instance, he used to make David Wright carry his suitcases and stuff, and, in return, he bought him suits. So although Cliff may come off like a jerk, I'm pretty sure management is okay with him doing it, because they want him to keep the youngsters under control.

Right...so drill him for it in the clubhouse, and keep your mouth shut at other times.

[MalcPow]

For the "he did this while a game was going on" crowd...he did it in-between innings, when no one had to be watching him. He didn't hit the HR, start high-fiving his teammates, and then continue down the line to greet the fans. Lighten the fuck up.

Lastings is a 21-year old, African American baseball player who happens to have the potential to be a stud. Count the number of these great black players in the majors now, then count the number of potential top prospects who fit his description. Subtract from that amount the number of top prospects who do shit like THROW A BAT AT AN UMPIRE. Then realize how important the success of someone like Milledge means to baseball.

Milledge is already loved by the fans, who have basically given him a standing ovation for every at bat and defensive play he's been involved in. He gets a standing ovation when he runs out to field his position. This was his way of saying thanks. Again, lighten the fuck up people.

Again, from a Mets fan...screw Cliff Floyd. It can be the job of the manager to speak to the media about a player's (possible) lack of professionalism, but who the hell appointed you to be the one who can speak out and talk shit about your teammate? Yes you may have phrased it in such a way that you're just looking out for him, but I don't care. To me, that shouldn't be done. Unless, you know, you're scared since the kid is going to be taking your job next year.

I will not lighten up! I am the Emily freaking Post of Baseball! This makes me furious! :mad:

You need to buy some of what you're selling dude and chill out a little too. This kid needs to learn to roll with the ups and the downs, keep an even keel, and stay out of the crowd during the game. I'm sure it seems kind of novel and endearing now, but it's a maturity and professionalism thing, a player too wrapped up in the emotions of a moment and lacking some perspective about what might be going on around him. An equivalently immature response to a bad situation, a moment of failure or frustration, might end up looking as poorly as the bat throwing example you cite.

No one wants this kid to have a bad career. But let's also be honest, New York is a tough town, and the Mets don't exactly have a history of nurturing young African-American heroes to their full potential. Making a rookie feel entitled and larger than life, encouraging him to do whatever he feels and applauding it because he's such a prospect is not the path to stable and prolonged success.

I don't think this is a huge deal at all, he's a kid, he got excited, and so did the fans. But hopefully Milledge will take the opposite approach of your screw Cliff Floyd response (who has had ten times the career of a lot of stud prospects that come and go) and maybe he'll just file this away as a lesson learned. Fans get emotional, fans get excited, but he needs to keep himself focused and a little detached, living at the whims and mood swings of a New York fanbase will tear him apart.

[Logan]

Yes, it would be so much better if he didn't show any enthusiasm, and just sulked away while cashing his $300,000 paycheck.

My point is (and it's the same point made before)...if Milledge did any of the things that are typical of professional athletes these days (admiring HRs, throwing his helmet, chest-bumping, coming up with elaborate celebration dances), it would just be another instance that's quickly forgotten. But far be it for him to do something nice for the fans down there (between innings, not in the context of the game), and he gets blasted for it.

Has anyone ever seen football players slap hands with fans in the front row behind the bench? I have. I don't see how this is any different.

[MalcPow]

Yes, it would be so much better if he didn't show any enthusiasm, and just sulked away while cashing his $300,000 paycheck.

Meh, it doesn't have to be an either/or situation, but with a young player, who has almost no experience with the ups and downs of being a professional baseball player, it's probably better to reign these things in. Like Crash Davis said, "You play this game with humble arrogance." I would ultimately be less worried about the showing someone up aspect and more about the caught up in the moment stuff, when things take an inevitable downturn and the fans aren't as kind it will be a serious adjustment for any young man to deal with.

[Crim]

"What are these... rules of which you speak?"
-- Bud Selig

[Terps]

The other "unwritten rule" in baseball that was broken this weekend was that the O's player stole two bases in the 7th or 8th inning vs. the Yankees, when the O's were up by 6 or 7 runs. On this, I also agreed with M&M, that this is the YANKEES we're talking about, we've seen them score 6+ runs in the 9th to come back and win the game...also, if the unwritten rule is that the leading team is supposed to take it easy, does that mean that the trailing team should also do that? Talk about ruining the spirit of the game. This was not a case of the O's trying to "run up the score," this was a case of the O's trying to maintain their lead vs. a team that has demonstrated it can come back...



I was coming in here to post about the same thing. Patterson had every right to steal. Bowa was bitching that the O's were trying to rub it in when the Yanks 'didn't have their big guns in the line-up.' Boo-hoo. Everyone knows the Yanks can come back from many runs down.

As Chuck Thompson said in the '83 ALCS against the White Sox when Tony LaRussa was complaining about the O's playing hard with a big lead:

"If Mr. LaRussa would kindly let us know how many runs it takes to win a ballgame, then we'll know when to stop running the bases."<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[SuperGrover]

Seriously, I'm not saying drill the dude or villify him, but taking a curtain call and working the crowd after your teammate just struck out and the game is still going on is silly. I guess I'd just rather a guy tip his hat and wait until after the game to make some eight year old's day.

Yep. Exuberance is one thing but celebrations that bring attention to the individual during a team sport are an entirely different matter.

If he likes the fans so much, why didn't he slap their hands EVERY time he went out to RF?

Sports are becoming more about the individual and less about team every single day. That is not a good thing.

[larrymcg421]

The unwritten rules are crap. I remember there was this debate about them after Ben Davis bunted to break up Curt Schilling's perfect game. Bob Brenly went nuts, saying it was chickenshit and against the unwritten rules. God forbid you try to bring up the tying run in a 2-0 game.

[larrymcg421]

Also I expect any manager pissed about running up the score from now on to tell his team to not swing at any pitches. I mean, would it really be fair to come back when the other team is trying to be nice and not rub it in? Shouldn't that be an "unwritten rule".

[stevew]

I stopped giving a shit about baseball, in part, because of stuff like this.

[Crapshoot]

I'm a Giants fan, and I don't really care - He's a 21 year old who just hit his first HR in the big leagues - and good for him. Yeah, you probably shouldn't go crazy - but we want people to be excited, and that's all he was. A bunch of old farts who insist this is all that is wrong with baseball are best moving on to croquet.

[condors]

i want to see batters start charging the mound when i pitcher pumps his fist for striking a guy out or have opposing pitcher start nailing guys because their pitching was celebrating striking out the side....oh its only against the rules for the hitter to celebrate :confused: