*World Cup Game Discussion Thread* (SPOILERS)

[rexallllsc]

Rosicky? Nah, don't cover him. He sucks.

[Desnudo]

A couple of tines of the fork in the US. My prediction for a final score: 3-1.

[Brillig]

Complete lack of drive from the US team, they look like they're the ones with the 2-0 lead. Maybe they're saving energy for the next match :P Or maybe they were replaced in the middle of the night by the Cincinnati Bengals

[rexallllsc]

At least Balboa isn't pulling any punches.

[BrianD]

The US team seems to be taking the Bode Miller approach to international competitions.

Except the US wasn't favored in this match.

[Celeval]

Horrid.

[kingfc22]

Do we know that we can't score if we don't shoot.

Uh, finally as I type this we get a decent shot.

[DaddyTorgo]

was that our first shot of the second half?

[daedalus]

Blame all the USA players you want, but ehr... maybe the Czechs are just that good?
*hides*They ARE that good.

On the other hand, while it was a good cross finished off by a good header and a hell of a shot, they didn't necessarily come off a great build-up by the Czechs where you just have to resign yourself to just appreciating their skill. Both came off complete fuckups by the US team that just leaves you more frustrated because you cannot tell if you're completely outclassed or if you had some kind of chance if not for the fuckups.

At least that's my opinion on it.

[AlexB]

very good effort the by Johnson. Cach was beaten.

And then he snatches at the next chance

[Dunleavy]

Good attempt by Eddie Johnson, maybe it remind the rest of the US players where the goal is

[rexallllsc]

Ouch.

[Desnudo]

Keep feeding Johnson please

[kingfc22]

There is a time limit guys....

[Crapshoot]

Just came back from watching it. Rosicky's goal is the goal of the tournament, as far as I'm concerned. Just wow.

[rexallllsc]

Can Arena plz get someone on for Convey or Beasley!?!?

[rexallllsc]

Convey LOVES to pass the ball to Cech.

[kingfc22]

We need to start Johnson and McBride up front against Itlay and put Donovan in an AM role

[Desnudo]

They ARE that good.

On the other hand, while it was a good cross finished off by a good header and a hell of a shot, they didn't necessarily come off a great build-up by the Czechs where you just have to resign yourself to just appreciating their skill. Both came off complete fuckups by the US team that just leaves you more frustrated because you cannot tell if you're completely outclassed or if you had some kind of chance if not for the fuckups.

At least that's my opinion on it.

I agree. I think in the first half the US had the better build up until the final third. Although neither team seemed particularly motivated.

[cartman]

Damn that was close!

[Celeval]

Nearly had one.

[rexallllsc]

My bad.

Bobby Convey
Crossing: 6

[Crapshoot]

No doubt the Czechs are a great team. But the US isn't doing themselves any favors with the way they've been playing.

To be fair, at 2-0, the Czechs have bottled up, and there's no one on the US team who has the creativity to unlock them.

[Karlifornia]

Well..they're starting to geta pulse......If only we could have seen bits like over the first 70 minutes.

[kingfc22]

Damn that was close!

Well this ain't horseshoes and it sure as hell ain't hand grenades.

[cartman]

So, who is Wolff coming in for?

[DaddyTorgo]

ballgame

[cartman]

Well, doesn't really matter now.

[Celeval]

Jesus.

[MIJB#19]

game over

[Crapshoot]

Dola, Beasley looked like crap - I had no clue he was out there, until the US lost possesion.

[DaddyTorgo]

might as well turn it off boys

[rexallllsc]

This guy "Gooch" is freaking not good.

[kingfc22]

oh we suck again

[daedalus]

Good night, game over, drive home safely?

[Celeval]

Too much goal difference. Now we have to beat both Italy and Ghana - a tie won't do it.

Which basically means we're done.

[Cringer]

I guess I can give up hope.

Crap, this blows.

[kingfc22]

Well shit, is it 2010 yet?

[DaddyTorgo]

Too much goal difference. Now we have to beat both Italy and Ghana - a tie won't do it.

Which basically means we're done.

yep

[Dunleavy]

score line reflects the game

[Cringer]

Oh wait, we always have hat FIFA ranking right? That gets us something doesn't it? :rolleyes:

[kingfc22]

Need an Italy/Ghana tie.

[Dunleavy]

My bad.

Bobby Convey
Crossing: 6

and dropping

[kingfc22]

and dropping

and still dropping

[DaddyTorgo]

US was never in this game after that Koller goal cuz the Czechs just dropped back

[kingfc22]

and still dropping

Is their a skill for hitting the defender in the back?

[kingfc22]

Bruce better play Johnson for the entire final two games.

[Karlifornia]

Claudio Reyna gets my vote for man of the match...I mean, without him we easily could have lost 8-0

[rexallllsc]

Bruce better play Johnson for the entire final two games.

More Johnson
Less Convey

[BrianD]

Did that announcer just say that the US is very capable of getting a result against Italy?

[Desnudo]

Need an Italy/Ghana tie.

Is that the best scenario?

To be honest, if this the quality of play to expect then it won't matter because they'll come nowhere near Italy. If they can't unlock the Czech defense, they have no chance against Italy.

It seems like Johnson is the only one doing anything on the attack.

[Galaril]

A few things. Twellman should have been selected for the team. And it is timefor Arena to go. He has been in that positon for quite some time and has become to cautious in his lineups as well as strategy. The US has got to do better than this or all the hardwork and success from last WC will go to waste. I mean by that is people were just starting to care about soccer in the USA thansk in part to the last cup success.

[rexallllsc]

Claudio Reyna gets my vote for man of the match...I mean, without him we easily could have lost 8-0

Well, he was certainly our best player. Kinda funny considering some of the BigSoccer posters wanted Pablo M. to start over him.

Landon Donovan certainly doesn't look like he's improved from 02. Maybe you should've stayed in Europe, Landon.

[Dunleavy]

Eddie Johnson gets US man of match 7/10, everyone else gets 5/10 at best.

[Bisbo]

Hey I was watching a replay of the 94 Cup on ESPN Classic - oh no, wait - its today's game.


Boys vs men. Beasely should not start the rest of the tournament. But no surprise, he hasn't looked good for months.

[rexallllsc]

Their guys are so much stronger than ours - weight program,
Bruce Arena?

[Dunleavy]

anyway...i have the Czech's as my runner up but now they have both strikers, Koller and Baros, injuried. if you finish second in the group you get Brazil so that game v Italy should mean alot for the two

[kingfc22]

This is a horrible result for the US soccer program. Now we have to hear the media bash soccer and make fun of the US until at least Saturday.

[rexallllsc]

Onyewu
Anticipation: 4

[cartman]

Our only hope now is about 20 injuries per team in the Italy-Ghana match.

[RendeR]

Lets not go handing Italy a win over us right away either. Everyone from coaches, players and announcers/analysts have agreed that Italy is not a real quality team right now, far below the average in this world cup event.

Ghana we can beat, I think we can take Italy if we show up and play with some energy. With a 3-0 today though we have to win, draws will not help us due to point differential.

[daedalus]

Did that announcer just say that the US is very capable of getting a result against Italy?Most of the announcers have also been saying that the US *would* (not could) beat the Czechs.

[Galaril]

This is a horrible result for the US soccer program. Now we have to hear the media bash soccer and make fun of the US until at least Saturday.


Yeah, no kidding if the US loses soccer sucks and if we win, it is mildly amusing to the media in the US.

[RendeR]

The worst thing I saw out there is a total and complete lack of heart from anyone but Johnson and Reyna.

[Crapshoot]

Beasley was awful, but I wouldn't be as downhearted as many of you are - offensively, the Czech's are one of the 5 best teams in the world, up there with the Brazilians (well, not quite) and the Argentinians. Being taken apart by two world class players (Nedved, Rosicky) isn't a failure requiring a teardown. Yes, they need to tighten up, but all 3 of those goals involved a little bit of magic from someone. I'm more inclined to credit the Czech's as opposed to bashing the US team.

[Desnudo]

This is a horrible result for the US soccer program. Now we have to hear the media bash soccer and make fun of the US until at least Saturday.

They deserve it. Like Lalas just said, if you want the hype, you take the criticism. Worst defeat so far in the tournament, so what else can be said?

[RendeR]

No matter what magic happened, when you play at this level you have to be able to stand up and play the elite teams close, we didn't today and our players need to seriously make a gut check and come out firing in the next match.

[rexallllsc]

Beasley was awful, but I wouldn't be as downhearted as many of you are - offensively, the Czech's are one of the 5 best teams in the world, up there with the Brazilians (well, not quite) and the Argentinians. Being taken apart by two world class players (Nedved, Rosicky) isn't a failure requiring a teardown. Yes, they need to tighten up, but all 3 of those goals involved a little bit of magic from someone. I'm more inclined to credit the Czech's as opposed to bashing the US team.

Yes, those guys are world class players, but the first goal was not a World Class goal, and the third goal was just a complete breakdown in our own end. Rosicky was completely unchecked.

The second goal was a beauty, and I'll give them that, but that also was just a dumb clear.

The team came out flat and uninspired. Beasley shouldn't play next game, and Donovan should be dropped back to the Mid..

[kingfc22]

A couple of quotes from the hattrick conferences:


Some guy from Isreal:
The only truth is that USA is not up to the challenge of a WC. They being on the tournament only levels down the competition.

They seem an amateur team today, and I hope CR scores 2 more goals.

Keller sucks, and the one who thinks he's the best keeper in the world should be treated from drug abuse.



From Austria:
Like i mentioned earlier, the US is playing the best they can, they are just not used to the class of european teams. Dont you get it, the US cant perform better than this
Again from Austria
This is why i looove watching the US in a WC soccer game. They're so used to playing those carppy North- and mid-american teams, that they proclaim their equality with the european teams. The arrogance can't be mistaken, and yet they are always clearly overmatched.
:( Would be nice to have a gotten a win a told these guys to STFU

[moriarty]

Blah, I hope Gooch signed w/ 'boro already, otherwise he's staying in Belgium for a while (assuming they want him).

Good to see EJ put in a strong performance. Perhaps a bit selfish at times, but hell someone needed to at least get a shot on goal.

Donovan, DMB, Convey ... supposedly the strengths of our team pretty much shut down.

[rexallllsc]

They deserve it. Like Lalas just said, if you want the hype, you take the criticism. Worst defeat so far in the tournament, so what else can be said?

Yup. If T&T and Angola can come out and stand toe-to-toe with teams - what the hell is wrong with our guys?

[rexallllsc]

Good to see EJ put in a strong performance. Perhaps a bit selfish at times, but hell someone needed to at least get a shot on goal.


Yeh, funny. I saw Landon bickering with EJ after EJ took a shot. Stop it Landon.

[tanglewood]

The US just had no ideas or creativity going forward whatsoever. Donovan was completley anonoymus, maybe it's the food in Germany?

[moriarty]

The team came out flat and uninspired. Beasley shouldn't play next game, and Donovan should be dropped back to the Mid..

Problem is, who do you replace Beasley with? Dempsey? If so, Dempsey better score b/c he can't cover back on the right side.

Same with Eddie Lewis and Gooch (can't believe he'll play that bad again .. I really think he cost us at least two of the goals) - if you yank them out, who are you going to replace them with.

We need depth ... desparately. Maybe 2010. :)

[kingfc22]

So what is our record playing in South Africa? Can we win there?

[RendeR]

Yup. If T&T and Angola can come out and stand toe-to-toe with teams - what the hell is wrong with our guys?

Today? laziness. They stood around as if they expected someone to hand them the ballsand the goals on a platter. No energy, no heart today. Whats it take to get our players to play with some passion?

[moriarty]

So what is our record playing in South Africa? Can we win there?

Not sure, but my kid will by 5 by then. If I train him he ought to be able to start at left back for us based on that show I saw out there. :D

[BrianD]

I think we'll have to wait for another match or two to really pass judgement on the US team. They were completely outmatched today, so it isn't a surprise that they looked bad. The next 2 matches will show whether we are a mid-tier WC team, or worse.

[Butter]

France '98!

Beasley
Dribbling: 4
First Touch: 2

[kingfc22]

I bet Lalas and Wynalda feel like they got slapped in the face watching us fall all over ourselves today.

[Dunleavy]

Is that the best scenario?

To be honest, if this the quality of play to expect then it won't matter because they'll come nowhere near Italy. If they can't unlock the Czech defense, they have no chance against Italy.

It seems like Johnson is the only one doing anything on the attack.

best scenario might be Ghana upsetting Italy, but a draw is also good, it will give US hope

[AlexB]

Don't get over downhearted yet: while the FIFA rankings are not necessarily 100% accurate, they are not miles out. Teams will take points off each other in this group - if the next game is a draw even four points might be enough for 2nd, although I tend to agree the goal difference may mean you need 6.

[Desnudo]

Problem is, who do you replace Beasley with? Dempsey? If so, Dempsey better score b/c he can't cover back on the right side.

Same with Eddie Lewis and Gooch (can't believe he'll play that bad again .. I really think he cost us at least two of the goals) - if you yank them out, who are you going to replace them with.

We need depth ... desparately. Maybe 2010. :)

Johnson on for Beasley and move to a 4-4-2. They lost 3-0 w/Beasley, surely they can lose 3-0 with Dempsey.

[moriarty]

I think we'll have to wait for another match or two to really pass judgement on the US team. They were completely outmatched today, so it isn't a surprise that they looked bad. The next 2 matches will show whether we are a mid-tier WC team, or worse.

If they were outclassed today, it's a pretty fair assumption they'll be outclassed by Italy as well. I think the real question is how we compare against the African team ... Ghana bets anyone?

[moriarty]

Johnson on for Beasley and move to a 4-4-2. They lost 3-0 w/Beasley, surely they can lose 3-0 with Dempsey.

That's a good point. :)

[kingfc22]

I think our best chance is to have Italy and Ghana tie. (1 pt. each)
Have them both lose the the CR.
And then it is up to us to get a tie and a win in our last two games.

CR - 9 pts.
US - 4 pts.
Ghana or Italy - 2 pts.
Ghana or Italy - 1 pt.


Not sure how realistic this is, but it's the only way I see us advancing to the round of 16.

[Desnudo]

Lalas is pissed. He's the only guy who seems to know what he's talking about.

[sachmo71]

so much for the rise of pro soccer in the US. we don't like losers much.

[rexallllsc]

I bet Lalas and Wynalda feel like they got slapped in the face watching us fall all over ourselves today.

Definitely. Lalas is going off.

[Dunleavy]

Renya
"first goal un-nerved us" "put us on our heels"
"second half we made tactical changes, it didn't work out, we didn't get the width"
"alot of guys nervous" "at times all over the field we were hesitant"

[cartman]

so much for the rise of pro soccer in the US. we don't like losers much.

1998 didn't seem to affect the MLS too much.

[sachmo71]

1998 didn't seem to affect the MLS too much.


i would say that the difference is that many of the us fringe fans who heard about this probably heard that the US was "#5 in the world". Then they decide to watch a game or two and get a little excited. A loss like this, and probable elimination from any chance to make a dent in the games, will kill any extra boost MLS might have seen from this, as far as fringe fans are concerned. If the US had played like the 5th best team in teh world, and done something in the tournament, they might have gained quite a few fans. now they just have to hope they get fans who fall in love with the game, not the team.

[Desnudo]

I think our best chance is to have Italy and Ghana tie. (1 pt. each)
Have them both lose the the CR.
And then it is up to us to get a tie and a win in our last two games.

CR - 9 pts.
US - 4 pts.
Ghana or Italy - 2 pts.
Ghana or Italy - 1 pt.


Not sure how realistic this is, but it's the only way I see us advancing to the round of 16.

Or Ghana beats Italy, Czech beats Ghana, US beats Italy and Ghana, Czech ties Italy. :)

[Crapshoot]

Yup. If T&T and Angola can come out and stand toe-to-toe with teams - what the hell is wrong with our guys?

Again, putting myself into the strange position of defending the US team: 1. The Czech's are better than the Portugeuse. 2. Angola did not even attempt to tie the game - they were happy to lose 1-0, given the long history. The US, to their credit, attempted to play football. I think losing 3-0 playing like the US did (and remember, 2 inches to the left and Reyna scores) is better than losing 1-0 the way Angola did - if anything, it was a sign of a competitive nature, and I appreciate that.

[Coffee Warlord]

Again, putting myself into the strange position of defending the US team: 1. The Czech's are better than the Portugeuse. 2. Angola did not even attempt to tie the game - they were happy to lose 1-0, given the long history. The US, to their credit, attempted to play football. I think losing 3-0 playing like the US did (and remember, 2 inches to the left and Reyna scores) is better than losing 1-0 the way Angola did - if anything, it was a sign of a competitive nature, and I appreciate that.

Uh, like what? Continually sloppy passing all over the field and sluggish play is not competitive. It's just ugly.

[Desnudo]

So, how much would people be willing to pay for a DVD copy of this game?

[Huckleberry]

i would say that the difference is that many of the us fringe fans who heard about this probably heard that the US was "#5 in the world". Then they decide to watch a game or two and get a little excited. A loss like this, and probable elimination from any chance to make a dent in the games, will kill any extra boost MLS might have seen from this, as far as fringe fans are concerned. If the US had played like the 5th best team in teh world, and done something in the tournament, they might have gained quite a few fans. now they just have to hope they get fans who fall in love with the game, not the team.

And that falls on ESPN. Nobody takes the FIFA rankings seriously. Nobody.

The USA is a Top 20 squad.

[Butter]

Beasley
Dribbling: 4
First Touch: 2

Forgot one:

Favored foot: Left Only

[Critch]

Men versuses boys out there. Without Reyna's workrate in midfield, and the Czechs settling, it could have been worse. Too many of the younger US players seem to have believed the hype.

[sachmo71]

And that falls on ESPN. Nobody takes the FIFA rankings seriously. Nobody.

The USA is a Top 20 squad.


I don't know if it really matters in the end. US fans are ignorant of almost everything, but they know rankings. We love lists! :D

[Fighter of Foo]

The fact that we were crap and had no energy in the first half bothers me MUCH more than the loss itself.

[MrBug708]

I think we need to do a rebuild on the scale of a Schmidty rebuild. We went for a team, but it wasnt good enough. Trade everyone for draft picks and try again! :)

We need to go out and find Brazillian players with a great great great grandfather who was American

[SunDevil]

We need to go out and find American players with a great great great grandfather who was Brazillian

Fixed it for ya. :)

[MrBug708]

Or

Maybe Anshultz should fold MLS, buy a Premiership team and stock it with American players. At least then our guys would have some clue what top flight competition is like.

[Dunleavy]

The fact that we were crap and had no energy in the first half bothers me MUCH more than the loss itself.

what about the fact that coming out of half time we still had NO passion

[DaddyTorgo]

I think our best chance is to have Italy and Ghana tie. (1 pt. each)
Have them both lose the the CR.
And then it is up to us to get a tie and a win in our last two games.

CR - 9 pts.
US - 4 pts.
Ghana or Italy - 2 pts.
Ghana or Italy - 1 pt.


Not sure how realistic this is, but it's the only way I see us advancing to the round of 16.

this was my thought too. we just have to hope the czechs are world-beaters and can take out everyone and we can ride their coattails and hope for a draw in this next game and to at least get one of the two wins.

[Butter]

I think they need 2 wins, period. I don't think they get them if they play anything like today. We have 5 days to wait, so let's wait and see what happens.

[Fighter of Foo]

what about the fact that coming out of half time we still had NO passion

I thought the 2nd half was infinitely better than the first as far as the pace of the team is concerned.

Unfortunately, that's not saying much, and the increased pace led to passing the ball to the wrong team more often than not. :(

[Schmidty]

I think we need to do a rebuild on the scale of a Schmidty rebuild. We went for a team, but it wasnt good enough. Trade everyone for draft picks and try again! :)

We need to go out and find Brazillian players with a great great great grandfather who was American

I don't rebuild. I retool.

[rexallllsc]

Or

Maybe Anshultz should fold MLS, buy a Premiership team and stock it with American players. At least then our guys would have some clue what top flight competition is like.

No way. Donovan's competition is just as good in the MLS as it would be elsewhere.

[cartman]

Looks like the guy from Ghana landed squarely on his tailbone.

[DaddyTorgo]

why can't african countries develop good GK's?

[cartman]

why can't african countries develop good GK's?

Hakeem Olajuwon was a GK before he took up basketball.

[Blade6119]

I think we need to do a rebuild on the scale of a Schmidty rebuild. We went for a team, but it wasnt good enough. Trade everyone for draft picks and try again! :)

We need to go out and find Brazillian players with a great great great grandfather who was American
No, just kidnap a bunch of brazilian mothers right before they give birth, allow them to do so in america, and drop em back. Free american citizens

[moriarty]

No way. Donovan's competition is just as good in the MLS as it would be elsewhere.

:eek:

[Blade6119]

No way. Donovan's competition is just as good in the MLS as it would be elsewhere.
Prob. better actually, as he was with the leverskuken reserve team...is the MLS better then their reserves? lol

[rexallllsc]

Harkes criticized Arena for moving Beasley to the right, and for having Lewis and Convey on the same side...

[rexallllsc]

Prob. better actually, as he was with the leverskuken reserve team...is the MLS better then their reserves? lol

Donovan didn't have the desire to try and crack the Leverkusen first team.

[SunDevil]

Donovan didn't have the desire to try and crack the Leverkusen first team.

That desire seems to be consistent with what I saw today....

[moriarty]

Prob. better actually, as he was with the leverskuken reserve team...is the MLS better then their reserves? lol

He actually did play some with the first team. I didn't follow his second stint with the club that close, but I do know he played in a Champions League game against Liverpool ... and was awful. I recall one ball that drifted right in front of him in the box, all he had to do what put a good foot on it and he whiffed. I mean, whiffed. It was ugly.

[Crapshoot]

He actually did play some with the first team. I didn't follow his second stint with the club that close, but I do know he played in a Champions League game against Liverpool ... and was awful. I recall one ball that drifted right in front of him in the box, all he had to do what put a good foot on it and he whiffed. I mean, whiffed. It was ugly.

Yeah - it was pretty bad. Donovan is talented, but on evidence, he simply could not cut it in Germany (and I'm sure his homesickness had something to do with it). I think England might be a good place for him, but no team is going to make him the focal point of their attack - he's simply not shown enough.

[rexallllsc]

:eek:

C'mon guy, don't make me use the [sarcasm] tags! :)

[moriarty]

Need an Italy/Ghana tie.

Only 60 more minutes. :D

[moriarty]

C'mon guy, don't make me use the [sarcasm] tags! :)

I assumed the sarcasm, but it still deserved an 'eek'. :p

[DaddyTorgo]

ghana looks solid so far, although their keeper is stereotypically bad

[DaddyTorgo]

OHHHH! how'd he put that over?!!?!

[rexallllsc]

I assumed the sarcasm, but it still deserved an 'eek'. :p

Heehe.

[rexallllsc]

I'll paraphrase Jim Rome:

I still don't like soccer, but when Rosicky split that American D I felt ashamed to be American for a moment.

HAHAH

[cartman]

Totti definitely can blast a free kick.

[Arles]

I think the US media was hyping this US team way too much. For the past two days, I've seen about 25 videos on this "Gooch" guy - they were acting like he was the second coming of John Terry. In the end, he looked like the second coming of Alexei Lalas. Same goes for this Beasley kid.

Let's be real, the US got a very tough draw and needed to scratch and claw to beat out two better team in the Czechs and Italy. Instead, everyone in the media was wondering how the US would matchup with Brazil after round 1. To me, this is akin to the 00-04 Gonzaga teams looking past a sweet 16 matchup with Kansas and an elite 8 matchup with Arizona - and instead talking about how they matchup with Duke in the final 4 before playing any of the games.

[rkmsuf]

ghana looks solid so far, although their keeper is stereotypically bad

how can their keeper be bad when there is no score?

[DaddyTorgo]

how can their keeper be bad when there is no score?

he's gotten lucky...he's been way out of position and rushing out crazily on crosses and such.

[sovereignstar]

ghana looks solid so far, although their keeper is stereotypically bad

I don't know. He looked pretty good on that corner kick. :)

[DaddyTorgo]

short corner that worked! and hey that's bad...italy 1-0...cmon ghana!

[moriarty]

I think the US media was hyping this US team way too much. For the past two days, I've seen about 25 videos on this "Gooch" guy - they were acting like he was the second coming of John Terry. In the end, he looked like the second coming of Alexei Lalas. Same goes for this Beasley kid.


Gooch is fairly inexperienced at the international level. He only got his first cap a couple of years ago, and I think it pretty much showed in this match. I really think he'll do better the rest of the tournament. Pope lost his quickness a few years ago, and it's probably a bad sign we don't have anyone else who can remove him from the roster (possibly Gibbs, but he's injured).

Beasley is a head scratcher. He's played well in the past, given teams like Mexico fits and he's even had good peformances for PSV in Europe (including some champions league goals) albeit usually off the bench. I'm not sure if it was injuries he had last year or what, but all of a sudden in 2006, the guy looks a shell of himself for both club and country. Oh, and he also got busted for drunk driving ... I hope the two aren't related.

[RendeR]

An Italy win here could be seriously bad for the US chances.

[rkmsuf]

US is not beating It-le. Close up shop.

[tanglewood]

Totti bossing the game, but Ghana playing well too.

[DaddyTorgo]

US is not beating It-le. Close up shop.

unless ghana gets a goal and pulls out a tie i agree

[sovereignstar]

An Italy win here could be seriously bad for the US chances.

do ya think?

[RendeR]

Was that too much stating the obvious?

[3ric]

Great game so far, the Italians are impressive (esp. Luca Toni, first time I've seen him play)

[rkmsuf]

unless ghana gets a goal and pulls out a tie i agree

what difference does that make. it will still be an L for the us when they play it-le. close up shop then if you like.

[DaddyTorgo]

what difference does that make. it will still be an L for the us when they play it-le. close up shop then if you like.

unless we can pull a tie against italy? play 11 men behind the ball and pack it up so they can't move?

[AlexB]

Martin O'Neill is a brave man - sitting next to Marcel Desailly in the BBC Studio, after Desailly gives glowing praise for Ghana, MON rips both him and Ghana to pieces :D Desailly's just sat there shaking his head in a strop!

[RendeR]

what difference does that make. it will still be an L for the us when they play it-le. close up shop then if you like.

I understand that Italy is good, but who's sleping with you and paying you too to get you to ride their ass so well? Move to IT-LE or something =)

[bronconick]

The US may want to concentrate on scoring a goal and/or beating Ghana just so they don't finish last again. Advancing? Not with that goal differential.

[Desnudo]

Judging by the first half, I think either Ghana or Italy would beat the US right now.

[rkmsuf]

unless we can pull a tie against italy? play 11 men behind the ball and pack it up so they can't move?

great. now the us can be pussies as well.

[sovereignstar]

I have a hunch that these Chinese analysts are making some very valid points about the Italy-Ghana game.

[tanglewood]

Martin O'Neill is a brave man - sitting next to Marcel Desailly in the BBC Studio, after Desailly gives glowing praise for Ghana, MON rips both him and Ghana to pieces :D Desailly's just sat there shaking his head in a strop!

I was dissapointed in Lineker and the generally ball-less BBC though in the introduction. If I were presenting...

"So, Marcel, several of the Italian players have been implicated in a huge matchfixing scandal. I believe you have some personal experience with that..." :D

Then rapidly make an exit whilst all hell breaks loose.

[Arles]

Gooch is fairly inexperienced at the international level. He only got his first cap a couple of years ago, and I think it pretty much showed in this match. I really think he'll do better the rest of the tournament.
I think this is probably all true. My point is that I don't see why everyone is surprised that the US came out flat when all they've heard for the past week in the US media was how they were so good and how they would beat the Czechs without much worry.

I think this first game is a prime example of the US team reading their own press clippings and thinking they were better than they really are. The US soccer media, though, always treads on the fine line between A) trying to generate US interest in soccer and B) Overhyping the US team to get people to watch the world cup.

I think the media was talking about the US team in a fashion of what they "wished" was the case instead of what an unbiased observer would state actually was the case. Now, numerous sports fans that never follow soccer just watched the US get toasted by the Czechs after hearing from the US media about how great this US team was. And, unfortunately, I'm guessing many will now tune this event out.

[Katon]

he's gotten lucky...he's been way out of position and rushing out crazily on crosses and such.

He has looked a bit better recently, though, as he's had to deal with more shots and fewer crosses. Actually seems a decent shotstopper, as long as he doesn't have to do anything in the air. Sort of a very poor man's David James.

[rexallllsc]

I think this is probably all true. My point is that I don't see why everyone is surprised that the US came out flat when all they've heard for the past week in the US media was how they were so good and how they would beat the Czechs without much worry.

I think this first game is a prime example of the US team reading their own press clippings and thinking they were better than they really are. The US soccer media, though, always treads on the fine line between A) trying to generate US interest in soccer and B) Overhyping the US team to get people to watch the world cup.

I think the media was talking about the US team in a fashion of what they "wished" was the case instead of what an unbiased observer would state actually was the case. Now, numerous sports fans that never follow soccer just watched the US get toasted by the Czechs after hearing from the US media about how great this US team was. And, unfortunately, I'm guessing many will now tune this event out.

Regardless - there's no excuse for a 3-0 drubbing in your first game. The US looked like Saudi Arabia.

Everyone takes blame for this one, save for maybe Reyna.

[DaddyTorgo]

de rossi got away with that push in the box there. shoulda been a penalty

[cartman]

Yep, the Azzuri got away with one there.

[cartman]

WOW! How could the ref not call that?

[DaddyTorgo]

oh now that's fucking criminal!

[DaddyTorgo]

should be 2 PK's for Ghana in this game. bullshit

[bselig]

I don't watch much soccer, but from what I've seen in the WC, they never call anything in the box

[Cringer]

So the Italians paid off the ref right?

[DaddyTorgo]

So the Italians paid off the ref right?

apparently

[3ric]

I thought Koffour would be sent off. But he wasn't even booked?!? WTF?

Edit:
And Asamoah should have been booked for the worst diving attempt I've seen.

[MIJB#19]

Italy simply forgets to secure the points with a second goal... 10 mins left gor Ghana to tie it.

[Critch]

That should have been a sending off. Just because the guy is offside doesn't give you a license to try to injure him.

[MIJB#19]

I thought Koffour would be sent off. But he wasn't even booked?!? WTF?Yeah, that was amazing.

[DaddyTorgo]

goal for iaquinta. sloppy backpass by ghana. seeya USA...book your flight home.

[Cringer]

Crap. Book the flight home for the US.

[3ric]

Hoo boy! What a goal by Iaquinta!

[MIJB#19]

Well, there goes the option to a draw...

[aran]

It's a shame that Ghana couldn't get a goal to tie this game. They played with so much heart.

[Katon]

I thought Koffour would be sent off. But he wasn't even booked?!? WTF?

Edit:
And Asamoah should have been booked for the worst diving attempt I've seen.

Maybe the ref was trying to do Italy a favor . . .

Also, is Clive Tyldesley moonlighting for ESPN? The '99 CL final just made its way into the commentary somehow.

[DaddyTorgo]

for the most part though, Ghana has played great. if they were playing the USA today they would have won 1-0 or 2-0.

[Desnudo]

If Ghana could have hit the net they would have been in great shape. They certainly created enough chances.

[AlexB]

Wow - didn;t realise that: Italy now unbeaten for 19 games - 11 wins, 8 draws. Impressive.

[RendeR]

should be 2 PK's for Ghana in this game. bullshit


..

[Coffee Warlord]

So now we need to hope the Czechs run the table to have really any chance of the US advancing.

[DaddyTorgo]

So now we need to hope the Czechs run the table to have really any chance of the US advancing.

and we have to get a win and a draw. or at least a huge win over ghana or something...my head hurts from all the possibilities

[Coffee Warlord]

and we have to get a win and a draw. or at least a huge win over ghana or something...my head hurts from all the possibilities

Really, our only decent shot is winning out, with that butt ugly -3 GD.

Which, I just noticed, is presently the absolute worst in any group.

[DaddyTorgo]

Really, our only decent shot is winning out, with that butt ugly -3 GD.

Which, I just noticed, is presently the absolute worst in any group.
32/32 again baby!

and i'm not even sure i'd want to win out just to go into the next round and get squashed by Brazil. because make no mistake, that would be even worse of a game then we saw today IMO. Unless something drastically changed on our side.

[Desnudo]

Johnson to score 6 goals, US goes through with two wins.

[Coffee Warlord]

Johnson to score 6 goals, US goes through with two wins.

How's the weather there in Desnudonia?

[Desnudo]

The sky is purple and it rains candy canes.

[SunDevil]

And everyone lives in a yellow submarine... :)

[Fighter of Foo]

32/32 again baby!

and i'm not even sure i'd want to win out just to go into the next round and get squashed by Brazil. because make no mistake, that would be even worse of a game then we saw today IMO. Unless something drastically changed on our side.

Well winning the next two games would necessitate some pretty big changes.

[DaddyTorgo]

Well winning the next two games would necessitate some pretty big changes.

true. but my point is that even if we were to win the next two games we would have to be astronomically better even than that to get a result against brazil that wasn't an embarassment.

[RPI-Fan]

To everyone I talked shit about the U.S.: I was blatantly wrong.

This team fucking sucks. We have no heart, passion, desire, or team spirit.

[GrantDawg]

Just watched the game on Tivo. Ugh. Maybe we can get one win out of this Cup and they'll stop showing the "never won a WC match in Europe" tag every 5 minutes.

[Crapshoot]

To everyone I talked shit about the U.S.: I was blatantly wrong.

This team fucking sucks. We have no heart, passion, desire, or team spirit.

I'll accept the apology, even if I think you're being too harsh on them. The Czechs, by all account, were fucking brilliant, and it would have taken an amazing team to stop them today.

[st.cronin]

To everyone I talked shit about the U.S.: I was blatantly wrong.

This team fucking sucks. We have no heart, passion, desire, or team spirit.

Have faith. We will beat Italy and Ghana!

[RPI-Fan]

I'll accept the apology, even if I think you're being too harsh on them. The Czechs, by all account, were fucking brilliant, and it would have taken an amazing team to stop them today.

I only wonder what would have happened if WE had the stunning goal (Reyna, not Rosicky). Maybe we would have ACTED like we cared.

Alas, :(

[RPI-Fan]

Also, what exactly was our tactic this game?

If you're going to play with Dolo and Lewis as your fullbacks (which I'm not necessarily inherently against), you have GOT to play a box midfield. A box midfield was our only chance today, and I knew it all along. The only way we were going to hurt Cech and his monster defensemen was to run right at them. Like Landon did very early in the game, and like we did for our few chances in the second half.

O'Brien played some GREAT balls in the second half over-the-top that the Czechs somehow got to. If O'Brien's crafty chips don't get by the Czechs, nobody's will.

I usually give Arena the benefit of the doubt, but I can say today that he failed us.

[GrantDawg]

Backbiting after a big loss
American players, coach point blame in humiliating opener

By MIKE KNOBLER ([email protected])
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 06/12/06 Gelsenkirchen, Germany — It took less than five minutes for the United States to fall behind in its World Cup opener Monday night. It took only slightly longer after the 3-0 loss to the Czech Republic for U.S. coach Bruce Arena to question his players' courage and for a player to second-guess Arena's strategy.
Arena singled out Landon Donovan, DaMarcus Beasley and Kasey Keller for poor play. Beasley criticized Arena's strategy. Keller challenged his coach's analysis. And the biggest loss by any team so far in this World Cup left the U.S. team reeling.
<!--endtext--><!--endclickprintinclude--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=175 align=left border=0><TBODY></TBODY></TABLE><!--startclickprintinclude--><!--begintext-->"Players as well as coaches are a bit shocked," forward Josh Wolff said. "We didn't expect to lose 3-0."
This U.S. team hoped to build on the accomplishments of the 2002 squad that reached the World Cup quarterfinals. Instead, it delivered a performance more reminiscent of the 1998 World Cup in France, when it went 0-3 and scored only one goal.
The bickering in 1998 started early, too.
On Monday, the team with "United we play . . . United we win" painted on its bus sounded anything but. Arena started the finger-pointing.
"We got nothing out of Beasley tonight," he said. "Landon showed no aggressiveness," he said. And he blamed Keller for doing the soccer equivalent of out-kicking his coverage to start the sequence that led to the first goal.
Beasley fired back, saying he thought the Americans should have used four backs, three midfielders and three forwards in the second half instead of the three backs, five midfielders and two forwards Arena used. And he took exception to Arena's criticism.
"I was back there defending the whole time," Beasley said. "I don't know what he wants me to do. Next time I'll play as a striker instead of a midfielder and then see what happens."
The Czechs, an older team beset by injuries, were expected to be vulnerable if the Americans could keep up the pressure. Instead, the Czechs scored in the fifth minute and added a goal before halftime. Arena said the first goal was the key, and he questioned the judgment of Keller, a veteran on his fourth World Cup team.
"Kasey for whatever reason puts the ball up the field where we have nobody," Arena said.
The Czechs not only gained possession but caught the U.S. team out of position. An uncontested cross over two U.S. defenders led to Jan Koller's uncontested header, which easily beat Keller.
Keller pleaded innocent.
"It's not like I rolled the ball out there and they volleyed it in," he said.
Koller, a 6-foot-7 1/2 striker, left the game with a leg injury Czech coach Karel Bruckner described as "quite serious." But midfielder Tomas Rosicky showed he could provide plenty of offense, too.
Rosicky fired a 30-yard shot into the corner of the net for the second goal, then broke past the U.S. defense for the third.
Claudio Reyna had the best U.S. scoring chance, a shot from 7 yards outside the penalty box that hit the post in the 28th minute. Late in the game, a crossing pass from Bobby Convey passed inches in front of the onrushing Eddie Johnson a few feet from the net.
Next for the United States, a must-win match Saturday against Italy— a 2-0 victor over Ghana Monday — one of the favorites to win the World Cup. The Americans have some recovering to do.
"We've got to make sure that the Czech Republic doesn't beat us twice," Arena said.
"We've got to put this game behind us."
And mend some fences, too.

[GrantDawg]

Arena attacking the players in the press after the match? Fire him now.

[DaddyTorgo]

that's just really really poor form by arena. and by the players too for that matter, although it sounds like they were mostly reacting. gotta stick together guys

[Coffee Warlord]

Whelp. That shit right there just sealed the US's fate. They are doomed.

[RPI-Fan]

By the way, I want to give props to Jan Koller. He was a class act.

Even in his 30 minutes against us I could tell he is a classy footballer and I will root for him and the Czechs because of it.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Arena attacked Kasey Keller? Didn't he get the memo from Lalas that Keller is the best keeper in the world?

Who do we get to replace Arena after the WC (since he will obviously be gone)? Do we go after a foreign coach, or try the domestic route again?

[GoldenEagle]

Gus Hiddik (sp?) to the US after this World Cup.

[RPI-Fan]

A foreign coach won't work in the U.S. They won't understand the way we need to play to do well.

Arena just has too much loyalty. Aside from that one fault there is nobody better for our team than him.

[RPI-Fan]

Gus Hiddik (sp?) to the US after this World Cup.

I believe he has already agreed to coach Russia.

With that said, given that he coached South Korea so well I could live with him, because they're the most similar team in the world to us.

[moriarty]

Arena is just trying to fire his guys up. He's always been like that. They hate being called out on a world stage, and he's betting his ass they'll come out and prove him wrong next game. We'll see...

As for Beasley's comments, he should worry about actually getting in the game, not threatening to play as a striker.

[Groundhog]

Well, there are a lot of hang-overs in my office today... the Australia-Japan match kicked off at 11pm Sydney time, and I didn't get to bed until around 3-4am... drank way too much to remember clearly, and I'm paying for that sin right now. :)

What a game though. We really should have won 3-0, though full credit to the Japanese defenders for most of the game. Every time one of our forwards had the ball he was swarmed. We played a solid first half until the Japanese goal, and then we played real sluggish until the late goal explosion.

Up next is Brazil, and I guess the goal of that match is to not get blown out. Hopefully we can limit them to 2 or 3 goals and get one ourselves. A draw would be a miracle. It's a shame that it's televised at 1:30am our time on a Monday morning... :(

[RPI-Fan]

Arena is just trying to fire his guys up. He's always been like that. They hate being called out on a world stage, and he's betting his ass they'll come out and prove him wrong next game. We'll see...

As for Beasley's comments, he should worry about actually getting in the game, not threatening to play as a striker.

Beasley is a bee-yatch. He shouldn't have started this match and he better fucking not start another match in the WC.

[rexallllsc]

that's just really really poor form by arena. and by the players too for that matter, although it sounds like they were mostly reacting. gotta stick together guys

Sounds like Beasley was caught off guard by Arena's comments. That's not good.

[marshall881]

Beasley played like trash, and if he can't admit that after today's performance he has bigger issues to deal with than just his physical performance.

I think Donovan and Keller will use the comments to maybe find some passion and get the rest of the team to at least play with some fire. I don't care if they lose if they at least put forth the effort and play with some passion.

That timid, in awe performance they put in today is worthy of the harshest criticism. They seem to like all the attention leading up to the game, now they must deal with the critics when they play like junk.

[MikeVick7]

This may have been mentioned earlier in the thread, but I stay clear of it during the day while I tape the games and watch them when I get home. Plus, then the thread gets so incredibly large that I can't read through everything. With that being said...

We need a little less 1v1 talk out of Harkes and the play-by-play guy.


Thank you.

[Galaril]

I second fire Arena and please for God sake bring in a foreigner preferably an European. I had a chance to meet Coach Hiddink, who coached the Korea side last world cup. He is an idol in Korea society still to this day. They invented new words in their language for the phenomena of his incredible rise to popularity and companies started to have Hiddink leadership training courses for executives:). Korre even gave the guy a honorable citizenship and their was a big grassroots movement, in the general public, to get the law changed so he could become a korean Cctizen automatically removing the 5 year residency requirement (Of course he turned it down). He might be tough on the spoiled americans but he would get "Real" results against quality teams.

[MrBug708]

USA 0-2 Germany
USA 1-2 Iran
USA 0-1 Yugoslavia
USA 1-1 Korea
USA 1-3 Poland
USA 0-1 Germany
USA 0-3 Czech Republic

Overall record when Reyna starts in central midfield for the USA in the World Cup:

0-6-1

Goal differential:

-10

Clearly we cannot afford to experiment with other players in Claudio's role

[DaddyTorgo]

USA 0-2 Germany
USA 1-2 Iran
USA 0-1 Yugoslavia
USA 1-1 Korea
USA 1-3 Poland
USA 0-1 Germany
USA 0-3 Czech Republic

Overall record when Reyna starts in central midfield for the USA in the World Cup:

0-6-1

Goal differential:

-10

Clearly we cannot afford to experiment with other players in Claudio's role

i think you meant to say "clearly we can"

[MrBug708]

No/..:)

[Raven Hawk]

So I hid from the scores all day so that I could watch the game on TiVo. What a piece of shit that was. Beasley may not have had a good game, but the entire team played like utter trash. Nobody was moving on offense. And the defense? Where was it? Crap. Crap. Crap.

Crap. :mad:

[rexallllsc]

USA 0-2 Germany
USA 1-2 Iran
USA 0-1 Yugoslavia
USA 1-1 Korea
USA 1-3 Poland
USA 0-1 Germany
USA 0-3 Czech Republic

Overall record when Reyna starts in central midfield for the USA in the World Cup:

0-6-1

Goal differential:

-10

Clearly we cannot afford to experiment with other players in Claudio's role

I think it's pretty obvious that the problems are not Reyna's.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I couldn't understand why Donovan wasn't in the line up in the game. Crazy coaching decision.

[MrBug708]

Huh?

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Sarcasm.

[AlexB]

Gus Hiddik (sp?) to the US after this World Cup.

Think he's already signed up to coach Russia

[AlexB]

Dola,

Please take this for what it is - an outsider trying to provide some objectivity.

What's happening here is that the USA team failed to live up to impossibly hyped expectations. USA are not the 5th or 6th best team in the world, nor are they as bad as some people have posted.

But when people genuinely believe that USA has a chance to win the WC this year, it doesn't matter what happens in the Czech game, people are going to be disappointed - USA is just not at that level yet.

A genuine WC contender has higher level players than Eddie Lewis, Bobby Convery (both in Championship sides for a number of years), Landon Donovan (failed to make an impact in the Bundesliga twice). Others are good but not world beaters (Reyna, McBride, Keller, etc).

In my eyes USA can't win this year because USA fans want to see progression from four years ago, but have landed in one of the two really tough groups in this year's WC, one which regardless of the rankings, would have been a HUGE achievement in itself to get out of, and even if they did they would meet Brazil, over whom victory would rank with the biggest WC shocks.

So either USA fails to get out the group, or loses in the last 16. Either way USA fans are disappointed because they haven't done as well as 2002.

I kept a little quiet (largely because of the treatment MIJB got tbh) before the tourney, and last night when people had swung too far the other way.

The way I see it USA are a team that given an average strength draw are highly likely to make the last 16, have a chance to make the last 8 on occasions, but are no more than this yet. Unfortunately you ran into Italy (traditional powerhouse - unbeaten in 18 going into the WC) & the Czechs (arguably best European team at the moment) in the same group, and Ghana who are one of the toughest 4th seeds.

And before anybody thinks I am a Euro-snob, I think it's unlikely England will win the tourney (especially given the 2nd half performance!), and I think the best team thus far I have seen is Argentina.

[Northwood_DK]

That is a very good evaluation.

[daedalus]

Shrug, just my opinion but Arena's problem (in this case) isn't loyalty but inflexibility and lack of imagination. And, now, I'm thinking of adding: cowardice. Calling out your players, even when they were this pathetic, is lame.

While Beasley was fairly invisible, I would have to agree with the assessment that he was played on the wrong side. He's always looked better on the left side which, in my opinion, isn't shocking, given that he's very left-footed dominant. And, unlike someone like Robin van Persie, he doesn't have the strong shot to take advantage of playing on the wrong side (a la Robert Pires) so playing him on the right side is . . . just stupid. Also, unlike Convey, Beasley will actually track back defensively which makes him a far better partner for Lewis (if he must be the left back).

On the other hand, if Lewis is being started JUST because he's the "only" option at left-back, why not start O'Brien, assuming he's remotely healthy? If I understand correctly, he plays back there for his club team so it's not as if he would be playing at an unfamiliar position.

Also, this is about the first time I've seen Reyna play and he seems like he's playing as a deep-lying holding midfielder. Assuming this is a correct assessment, then I think Mastroeni is the wrong partner for him (in spite of me being a fan) since they would both be playing deep. O'Brien (based on what I saw in the last WC) would have been the better partner as he seems more comfortable further up the field and would have been able to link up Reyna and the attackers.

[RPI-Fan]

O'Brien was the only player for us who looked worth half a shit in this game. We need to attack Italy on Saturday and the ONLY way we're going to do that is with a box midfield -- Johnson + McBride up front, Donovan & Dempsey (or Convey) running at people, and Reyna + O'Brien distributing and covering on defense. The backline can be the same, though I'd prefer Boca to Pope.

[MikeVick7]

That is a very good evaluation.
Yeah I have no problem with that.

[Critch]

USA 0-2 Germany
USA 1-2 Iran
USA 0-1 Yugoslavia
USA 1-1 Korea
USA 1-3 Poland
USA 0-1 Germany
USA 0-3 Czech Republic

Overall record when Reyna starts in central midfield for the USA in the World Cup:

0-6-1

He started the 2-0 win over Mexico too.

I think Reyna is one of the very few who was blameless for yesterday, without his workrate and closing down the Czechs would have controlled midfield even more. Pretty much everybody else shares the blame, the young players who didn't show up at all, McBride bringing his poor EPL form into World Cup and being invisible, Donovan and Beasley both being anonymous (Beasley needs to watch that game again if he thinks he didn't suck).

I also wouldn't blame Arena, though I'm surprised at his lashing out press conference. He's always had a name for being a hardass that treats his players bad, but it's worked before, so maybe it will again.

[RPI-Fan]

He started the 2-0 win over Mexico too.

Yes but he was a right back/right middie in that game.

[Critch]

Yes but he was a right back/right middie in that game.

Yeah, thought he might have been playing a different position with the "central midfield" bit in the original post.

I defended him anyway cos he used to play for Glasgow Rangers so I like him :)

[Bisbo]

I was tremendously disappointed in the way the US played yesterday, and I really think Arena showed a distinct lack of class in calling out his players publicly, BUT - all of this talk about firing him is a bit much. He has totally turned around the US soccer program and deserves better than what he's getting right now. He also has gotten more out of the group of players we have than many others would. I think he has grown tired of coaching the national team. The fact that his contract wasn't extended before the Cup leads me to believe there was more mutual dissatisfaction about his role than has been reported. I would be very surprised if there isn't a change after the tournament is over (even if we miraculously come back and do well against Italy and Ghana.

[SirFozzie]

Here we go with the next game.

and if I see this adidas commercial one more time, Foz go Crazy. It was great the first 900,000 times but if I hear "beck-en-bauer" one more time..

[Critch]

Here we go with the next game.

and if I see this adidas commercial one more time, Foz go Crazy. It was great the first 900,000 times but if I hear "beck-en-bauer" one more time..

I still love that advert, though I've been doing most of my viewing on Setanta so I've not overdosed on it yet.

I would quite beat a Heineken ad exec with a hammer for that "dont you wish your girlfriend was hot like me" advert though.

[SirFozzie]

Oh god, Graham Poll is reffing this one?

[Critch]

Oh god, Graham Poll is reffing this one?

And Otto Pfister is the Togo coach again? When did that happen?

[Galaril]

Dola,

Please take this for what it is - an outsider trying to provide some objectivity.

What's happening here is that the USA team failed to live up to impossibly hyped expectations. USA are not the 5th or 6th best team in the world, nor are they as bad as some people have posted.

But when people genuinely believe that USA has a chance to win the WC this year, it doesn't matter what happens in the Czech game, people are going to be disappointed - USA is just not at that level yet.

A genuine WC contender has higher level players than Eddie Lewis, Bobby Convery (both in Championship sides for a number of years), Landon Donovan (failed to make an impact in the Bundesliga twice). Others are good but not world beaters (Reyna, McBride, Keller, etc).

In my eyes USA can't win this year because USA fans want to see progression from four years ago, but have landed in one of the two really tough groups in this year's WC, one which regardless of the rankings, would have been a HUGE achievement in itself to get out of, and even if they did they would meet Brazil, over whom victory would rank with the biggest WC shocks.

So either USA fails to get out the group, or loses in the last 16. Either way USA fans are disappointed because they haven't done as well as 2002.

I kept a little quiet (largely because of the treatment MIJB got tbh) before the tourney, and last night when people had swung too far the other way.

The way I see it USA are a team that given an average strength draw are highly likely to make the last 16, have a chance to make the last 8 on occasions, but are no more than this yet. Unfortunately you ran into Italy (traditional powerhouse - unbeaten in 18 going into the WC) & the Czechs (arguably best European team at the moment) in the same group, and Ghana who are one of the toughest 4th seeds.

And before anybody thinks I am a Euro-snob, I think it's unlikely England will win the tourney (especially given the 2nd half performance!), and I think the best team thus far I have seen is Argentina.


Jari,

Thanks that was a very diplomatic way to say what you said and I agree with it all.

[Butter]

Nifty goal by Togo in the first half... KOR are unlucky to be behind, although I imagine our genial Chinese hosts are more than pleased to see that be the case.

[Galaril]

Nifty goal by Togo in the first half... KOR are unlucky to be behind, although I imagine our genial Chinese hosts are more than pleased to see that be the case.


That would definitely be true. Koreans' inherit nature of bragging and boasting certainly pisses off other Asian countries in general. As far the match itself, the Korean coach will be in serious kimchi with the Korean fans, if they lose this one.

[Crapshoot]

Dola,

Please take this for what it is - an outsider trying to provide some objectivity.

What's happening here is that the USA team failed to live up to impossibly hyped expectations. USA are not the 5th or 6th best team in the world, nor are they as bad as some people have posted.

But when people genuinely believe that USA has a chance to win the WC this year, it doesn't matter what happens in the Czech game, people are going to be disappointed - USA is just not at that level yet.

A genuine WC contender has higher level players than Eddie Lewis, Bobby Convery (both in Championship sides for a number of years), Landon Donovan (failed to make an impact in the Bundesliga twice). Others are good but not world beaters (Reyna, McBride, Keller, etc).

In my eyes USA can't win this year because USA fans want to see progression from four years ago, but have landed in one of the two really tough groups in this year's WC, one which regardless of the rankings, would have been a HUGE achievement in itself to get out of, and even if they did they would meet Brazil, over whom victory would rank with the biggest WC shocks.

So either USA fails to get out the group, or loses in the last 16. Either way USA fans are disappointed because they haven't done as well as 2002.

I kept a little quiet (largely because of the treatment MIJB got tbh) before the tourney, and last night when people had swung too far the other way.

The way I see it USA are a team that given an average strength draw are highly likely to make the last 16, have a chance to make the last 8 on occasions, but are no more than this yet. Unfortunately you ran into Italy (traditional powerhouse - unbeaten in 18 going into the WC) & the Czechs (arguably best European team at the moment) in the same group, and Ghana who are one of the toughest 4th seeds.

And before anybody thinks I am a Euro-snob, I think it's unlikely England will win the tourney (especially given the 2nd half performance!), and I think the best team thus far I have seen is Argentina.


Euro-snob. :D

No, you're absolutely right - I think you, I, MIJB and a bunch of others were trying to make this point before the tournament - the US is a decent team that can punch above its weight, but it isn't world class - and there are people eating crow. I'd basically take your point and add on a summary - the US isn't as good as people thought before the tournament, and it isn't as bad those people think now - it was one game, against one of the best attacks in football, in full flow.

[Raven Hawk]

I'm not upset that the US lost to the Czechs. I just was hoping for a showing better than 3-0. I thought that a 1-0 loss would have been a respectable showing against a club like the Czech Republic. I just didn't like what I saw on the field. I never had the expectations that the US would win the cup, I'm just hoping they can get out of group play, but with a 3-0 loss to the Czechs, it seems unlikely. Now US has to either beat Italy and Ghana or draw Italy, then destroy Ghana, hoping the Czechs can beat Italy. Watching a lot of the WC, thus far, you can easily see that the US is not at the caliber it needs to be to contend for the cup.

[wade moore]

NICE goal by the Korean.

[gstelmack]

I'm not upset that the US lost to the Czechs. I just was hoping for a showing better than 3-0. I thought that a 1-0 loss would have been a respectable showing against a club like the Czech Republic. I just didn't like what I saw on the field. I never had the expectations that the US would win the cup, I'm just hoping they can get out of group play,

Yup. The media may be spouting off huge things, but I think a lot of people just wanted to see them put up a respectable showing and win a game or two. The game against the Czechs was ridiculous.

[MIJB#19]

Think he's already signed up to coach Russia
Yep, Guus Hiddink signed with Russia about a month ago.

[MJ4H]

I didn't hear anyone with a clue about the game thinking the USA could win the world cup. Most of the positive comments I heard (not necessarily here, as I usually didn't follow the comments here--I'm speaking in general) about the USA's chances were in response to ignorant bashing from people that like to see the USA fail. Now the ESPN studio guys were quite overly optimistic, I'll agree, but that's ok.

But, seriously, I don't know of anyone that over-estimated the USA's chances that much.

[Coffee Warlord]

"If you like passing, you'll like this game. If you don't like passing that doesn't really go anywhere, you might get a bit bored with this game."
Former England boss Graham Taylor on BBC Five Live

In regards to France - Switzerland right now. Heh.

[AlexB]

I didn't hear anyone with a clue about the game thinking the USA could win the world cup. Most of the positive comments I heard (not necessarily here, as I usually didn't follow the comments here--I'm speaking in general) about the USA's chances were in response to ignorant bashing from people that like to see the USA fail. Now the ESPN studio guys were quite overly optimistic, I'll agree, but that's ok.

But, seriously, I don't know of anyone that over-estimated the USA's chances that much.

I'm not sure if it were overtly stated (RPI would likely have done so if anyone ;) ) but it is implicit in the defence of USA as a top 5 or even top 10 nation - my take is that a top 5 side or top 10 ten side has the right the think that they could win the WC: therefore if people believe the former I assume they believe the latter.

So no, maybe it wasn't explicity written, but it was implicit in the arguments as I read them

[AlexB]

"If you like passing, you'll like this game. If you don't like passing that doesn't really go anywhere, you might get a bit bored with this game."
Former England boss Graham Taylor on BBC Five Live

In regards to France - Switzerland right now. Heh.

If only he had finished it with: 'Do I not like this game' :D

[ZXTT]

I have to say, I've been surprised by the expectations for the US from the US media going into this WC. Four years ago was a fantastic result. I've been expecting a first round exit this time. That would be the expected result given the quality of the players, which to me range from decent to solid. Meanwhile Italy and Czech Republic are stocked with stars and Ghana has one in Michael Essien.

What's disappointing about the Czech Republic game though, is the way the US looked, when compared with the way Ghana looked losing to Italy. There was essentially no attack.

Anyway, this a tough, tough tournament, and I certainly hope I don't hear any more of that "32nd out of 32" nonsense some keep spouting about '98. You either advance or you don't and if you don't from a tough group, there's no shame.

[ZXTT]

I'm not sure if it were overtly stated (RPI would likely have done so if anyone ;) ) but it is implicit in the defence of USA as a top 5 or even top 10 nation - my take is that a top 5 side or top 10 ten side has the right the think that they could win the WC: therefore if people believe the former I assume they believe the latter.

So no, maybe it wasn't explicity written, but it was implicit in the arguments as I read them

Although anyone defending the FIFA rankings would have to fall into the "doesn't have a clue" category, wouldn't they?

[RendeR]

Although anyone defending the FIFA rankings would have to fall into the "doesn't have a clue" category, wouldn't they?


Not really, because you actually have to have a clue to understand that the govrning body of the world cup and soccer in large part everywhere has a ranking system that no one with a clue respects.

[MrBug708]

That handball just cost the Swiss the game winner

[Icy]

Agree with Jari Rantanen's Shorts, good post. USA is not yet a WC contender as your press made it look, but i'm pretty sure that if soccer keeps getting played more and more in the USA, with colleges giving already scholarships, etc etc USA will become a superpower in the next 10 years. Not a lot of countries expend as much resources on the kids learning the sports as USA does, i really envy you. We in Spain don't promote sports at all, there are not sports scholarships, not any sport is played in schools, high schools or universities and of course we have way less citizens that USA so we don't have the potential that you guys have and we are one of the top nations regarding soccer, so imagine what you can do.

I have said it tons of times betwen my Spanish friends and they don't believe me as they don't know anything about the USA sports phillosophy, but i see USA winning the WC in the future, and the MLS as the top worldwide league.

[MIJB#19]

Hello! Wake up! France-Swiss is finally over.

[MrBug708]

Icy, you need to just move over here..:)

[Passacaglia]

Can anyone explain that adidas commercial to me? I mean, I get the basic idea -- these two kids are picking ten world class soccer players to be on their team. I recognize maybe half the names -- no big deal. But what about that one guy who the little kid (Jose) picks, and the fat kid repeats the name, then laughs at him, then looks all surprised when he shows up? Why is that guy more shocking than all the other ones?